Timing Cover & Water Pump Install: FULL How To/DIY (302/351w SBF)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- follow along as we install the ford water pump and timing cover - very easy to mess up and difficult to fix. do it right the first time!!!
Also, Check the book out - this is where i started!!! - amzn.to/2FZGDDY
Also, Check the book out - this is where i started!!! Great tech & walk throughs - amzn.to/2FZGDDY
also, what is the most annoying build piece to the small block ford? let me know in the comments!!!
a trick : watch movies at flixzone. I've been using it for watching lots of of movies lately.
@Derek Brandon definitely, have been using flixzone for months myself :)
Just changed a water pump on a 1990 Ford GT Mustang... The car never overheated but I noticed it was leaking ready to fluid from the bottom of the water Pump.. Change the water pump and it's still leaking in the back... So we took it back Off for inspection everything looks everything looks healthy what possibly could be causing the very bottom Of the water pump like where the bolt areas are Is or bottom meeting surface.... Got any ideas they're old thunderhead...
What year is the motor?
Thanks ! This is the ONLY video on the net that shows THE BACK OF THE PUMP BEFORE THE PUMP IS MOUNTED ! I now found a man on videos that knows how to teach ! Thanks so much !
I just try and make the videos that I wish I had when I started doing this car stuff
@@ThunderHead289 Thanks I thought I was the only person that spread the RTV like that.. I was just about to start putting a motor back together and not use RTV but IM going this way for sure
Thank you so much for this video. Replacing my timing chain and water pump on my '91 Ford F-250 with the 351 W in it.
I've been following you since you since the junkyard digs days colabs. Literally tonight, I was re-doing my timing cover and water pump on my 351 in my F-150 and I know felpro says to do them dry. But I took you advise and coated the gaskets in RTV. Its just not a job I want to do again and unfortunately, used an aftermarket timing cover to boot. I went against all internet advise because I know you know what you are doing and trust it. Just waiting 24 hours to add fluids. Thank you for all your awesome content. Just wish you weren't so busy you could post more.
As long as it's a thin skim coat, your good to go. The reason everyone says not to is because the typical person globs a massive amount onto gaskets which when tightened down in this case will squish out into the water pump poets, effectively restricting their flow capability.
So if you did it as I do it in this video, your good to go.
Follow his advice uiur going to have leaks on that timing cover and pump. Good luck
Thanks for all your Videos.
I have a 65 Ford Fairlane 500. And your videos have reassured me as I rebuild and improve my baby
Changing the water bump on my well rusted 1996 f 150 5.8 was a miserable experience. What was Ford thinking, Steel bolts through an aluminum housing into a cast iron block. To say the bolts were seized was a understatement I am careful and patient but I still twisted off several bolts. I removed the housing with a punch and big hammer.
Great video. You can tell this guy is super meticulous with his engine work. THIS is the kind of guy you would want to build your race engine if you are not a do-it-yourself kind of person. With that said, I got a laugh out of the super-quick transition from super-precise to grabbing a big 2x4 and hammer and pounding the balancer on. Perfect!!
Yeah, that’s not precise that heck on a thrust bearing, harmonic balancer install tools are cheap. Lol
I'm assuming: A) you were in the military B) you have an engineering degree. Even if I'm not correct, you are an excellent trainer!
I’m very honored that you think that, I wish I was of either guess.
I just remember how hard it was for me to learn and how many times things went wrong because of bad info or no info.
I just want others to be ahead today and not have to learn the hard way like I did. Paying it forward as best I can 👍
Doing a timing chain on my 1990 F-250 351W, ready to put the timing cover on after I clean stuff and put on all the little gaskets in place of the oil pan gasket
Rather than making a mess and having silicone everywhere and all over you
If you put just a little silicone on the timing cover only it will hold the gasket in place and when ever you pull it back apart the gasket will be stuck to the timing cover only so clean up will be much easier and you won’t have all the gasket and silicone falling down in your oil pan when you are scraping that gasket off the block and remember the amount of silicone that squirts out when you tighten down the timing cover is usually the same amount that squirts inside the motor and that will end up trapped against the oil pump pickup and that’s the last thing you want so don’t use no more silicone than you have to.
When there put together at the factory there is a very small amount used during assembly and when you clean up the timing cover it can be done on a table so it’s very easy to clean up and you don’t have to worry about having the mess in your motor
New engine, first time start up, coolant leak… so frustrating… I love your video… thank, time to reinstall water pump 351w
Great work and good advice provided. I am currently rebuilding the same motor for my ‘56 F-100. One thing I struggled with a lot was the water pump backing plate. I bought a high flow aluminum water pump and also bought the correct timing chain cover because of the difference in direction for the water pump. I could not find a backing plate that would work and finally determined (after a great deal of research), that if you have an aluminum water pump and timing chain cover, the backing plate is not required. Hopefully you agree with that...
Hmmmm
The old old timing covers do not use a backing plate indeed, but that’s only 1 era.
If you have Facebook, search Thunderhead289. My names Luke and I’d be happy to help you if you’d then send me some pictures.
My 83 mustang is starting to sweat at the ole water pump gasket. Looks like a winter project. Thanks for the tips!
I usually use a straight edge to line up the bottom of my timing cover with the block where the oil pan goes. I'll try your method next engine to see how close it is. Good video!
Hey there. I am changing the timing chain on a previously rebuilt 289. Funny thing is both crank keyway and cam gear dowel pin lined up at the top of their rotation. I guess it ran ok... (I bought it used) but I plan to install the new gears with the dots close together. Thanks for all the informative videos.
very informative and concise. thanks!
Did this over the weekend. Guess I got excited and did not mock up first... Man was that a bad move. Had to drill the timing cover so the 2nd dowl would fit, it was off center. Most bolts were too short in the kit, timing cover did not match up with pan. Racing rtv the whole time. I will be prepared round 2. Thanks.
Very great info for the novice and great reminders for the experienced or seasoned engine builder... I am however concerned about the timing chain being installed dry. Pre-soaking a roller chain in oil and use of assembly lube on the gears should help to mitigate chain & pin wear/stretch and premature failure down the road. I seem to recall somebody aid timing set oiling by creating a window or passage in the wall of the block from the lifter valley which may not be a brilliant idea on a production 302 block with high performance end goals due to inherent block weaknesses, but would nonetheless work well in either a street driven/mild engine or an aftermarket block which addresses the block stress issues if going for performance. That is to say said aftermarket block doesn't already have oiling provisions.
Yep i put a reverse water pump on a standard timing cover on my mustang 302 build. Keeps overheating, diesiling after shutdown and boiling coolant. I need to get a 'standard' water pump/pulley.
Great video. I bought a 93 Thunderbird that's been sitting for a few years, had the transmission rebuilt and now I'm working on the cooling system. The coolant is pretty nasty, no oil in it just rust. Gonna do a full flush, replace the radiator and water pump. This video helped quite a bit so I'm not diving into this completely blind. I'm really hoping I don't snap any bolts in the timing cover, but who knows. My T-bird is the first 302 I've ever owned, but I don't think it's going to be the last. Thanks.
Great book, I got it right before finding my 351W to play with
Thank you for sharing another informative video with all of your pro tips.
Solid process to install said components.. sweet video!
Great help thanks for my 1996 e350 club wagon xlt hd trailer package 5.8L W leaking some above timing cover.
Seems to me that teflon paste is best for water pump bolts anti-seize because it can also seal any bolt in hole that might penetrate a water jacket in an engine design.
I love your channel I would love to learn how to do what you do I no a little bit but not as much
Nice and detailed video!
But I would do some things differently:
First; try and balance the video SOUND (increase your voice volume). When the music and ads kick in their volume must be between 11 and 12 (TOO LOUD). But the choice of music is good. :)
Second; I'm not a fan of silicone and use as little as possible, I'll be using old fashioned GASGACINCH on my current 302 timing cover and water pump replacement project.
Third; due to dissimilar metal corrosion between the steel bolts and aluminum components, I would recommend using anti-seize on the bolts.
Fourth; hammering the balancing damper onto the crank could possibly damage the thrust bearing, I would use the correct installation tool.
nicely done and good audio . it can be said here as it was not covered in the video; avoid at all costs the temptation to use stainless fasteners with aluminum. these sets are prominently advertised online, and for the certain individuals who might consider it a good idea, Dont.
.it seems a logical idea as stainless will not rust right? but galvanic corrosion sets in with vengeance when you introduce aluminum. thus you will weld your fancy fasteners to the timing cover.
If you have a concern about this , meaning you will be back into this engine in the future, then never-seize and even on the longer fasteners i have used heat shrink tubing over the fastener and having it cut to exact length will form a barrier between housing and fastener.
another solution for stuck fasteners is almuinum brighteher or hydrofluoric acid . this clears up stuck aluminum in a hurry including distributors and long fasteners through aluminum.
what i was looking for is the idea of removing the timing cover with the water pump still attached. i will dive into a serp. 5.8 soon thought to remove both at once .ideas??
Haven't watched the video yet but since I didn't watch this before building my 302, I'm sure one of those critical mistakes (which I failed to avoid) is not breaking your water pump bolts and in turn your timing cover, work them suckers back and forth a little at a time with an impact, if they're gonna break they're gonna break but ya might get lucky, I pulled a 2nd one apart yesterday and got lucky
Nevermind this is just an installation video, I just put my timing cover and water pump on a different 302 a few days ago, hopefully it doesn't hurt anything that I left the timing cover gasket bare (put a little rtv at the bottom tho), I don't think it should hurt anything tho
Thanks sincerely!
Just did mine today hope it works tommorro on fire up.
Love your videos man. I’ve learned a ton! Keep it up!
Hey, I really appreciate that and am so glad that they are helpful
Hey, Great videos. I never would have put it all together at once, but mocking it up first helps a lot. . Some older manuals show a crankshaft oil slinger behind the seal, but I don't see it in your videos. Maybe it was a 289 thing..
do the vids then add audio later so you dont race the sealer. the antiseeze, i use a small syringe filled up with a tiny hose attached and insert a small vein in the bolt hole prior so it wont interfear with the gasket sealer when assembling. then put some ont the long bolt shafts that always get siezed. also can drill tiny holes in the timing cover where the long bolts go so you can spray penetrant into later during dissasembly. custom studs work great in this area as well as the thermostat neck.
Awesome video thank you for going into detail!
Great video, Im diving in....
Good stuff brother! Right in the middle of the timing cover install an O'Reilly commercial started (my employer) lol.
That’s where I go for parts 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Did you put two gaskets on the water pump or am I’m tripping
Standard rotation water pump vs reverse rotation water pump is specific only to accessory belt drive type (V belt vs. Serpentine & direction of impellers?)
That is correct.
There is one anomaly - the crown Victoria though using a serpentine, drove the water pump on the ribbed side of the belt making it standard rotation.
This water pump WILL bolt to a later timing cover and spin clockwise just fine, BUT the timing cover layout is such that there isn’t anything in the way of v belt oldschool stuff that bolts yo it in a friendly manner
Great video.
Couldn't find the part number for that water pump??
Question if I have to put the power steering and alternator brackets on some what of the water pump should i wait till I have the brackets to put in the bolts in or should be fine to take three bolts out to install brackets when the water pump is already installed
I think one of my dowel pins fell off in the oil pan, but I can’t say for sure. I only noticed 1 pin when I removed the cover. The engine is in the truck. How big of a deal is that? Ok to just leave it in there? I tried for hours fishing around with a magnet.
I just did this job and have to take it all apart because I couldn’t get the oil pan bolts to line up. So since the gasket sealer dried up I have to re do it… it’s a pain trying to get everything lined up
Do I need a backing plate? 1996 5.0 timing cover
isnt it ba to use ultra black on coolant passages because the coolant eats away at it?
I will be using the cork corner piece gaskets on front of oil pan and bottom of timing cover. Should I place and seal the cork gaskets to the timing cover then install it or place and seal them on front of oil pan then install the cover?
Next when should I install the 4 front oil pan bolts that connect to timing cover? After I install the cover water pump and balancer or sometime before?
I have a 65 289 block its still leaking im wondering if the bolts i have are right for the timing chain do you know of a set that'll work for that year
I buy my stuff from the hardware store - arbitrary grade 5. Buying a set is expensive and often a crap shoot
I see you have a two piece fuel eccentric, i used a one piece should i change mine two a two piece ?
Where are the links to all of the parts that you used? You mentioned several times in the video that you would "leave them below" but they are not here.
Without looking, if I had to guess they are in the video description which used to be easier to see on RUclips back when this video was made.
can a 289 timing cover and water pump from a 65 mustang be used in a 1980 302 so i can keep the 65 radiator
So can a 351 m 79 have a water leak into the oil pan thru the front cover if it sat around for 22 years? I have gray oil in my oil ! I'm lost on this one mystery of gray oil after changing the oil.
I'm curious to know. Can you use a timing cover w/mechanical fuel pump on a electronic fuel pump?
Yes if you have a block off plate for that mech. Pump
If the water pump is out is it possible to get water in the oil. I'm only asking if something like that can happen. I'm getting a lot of coolant into the oil before it ever starts
Thanks for the help
Not possible - either an intake leak, timing cover leak, or a head gasket leak
Hey thanks for the vids. Great stuff. Why did you install heads first. Most say to install timing cover, oil pan and what not first. To setup valve train is it better to have timing cover off? TIa
It doesn't matter either way - but a "long block" is literally sold with the block and rotating assembly together with the heads on and valvetrain installed - that's it
@@ThunderHead289 thanks, yea just want know if there was any particular reason
Hey ThunderHead, how does one plug the extra inboard holes on the cover's water ports? Your water pump seems to have provisions for a bolt but my shorty style pump doesn't have bolts for those two. Is the gasket supposed to seal around them and prevent leaks?
Sounds like you have a non backing plate style water pump and a later timing cover. You might get away with it, but that configuration may begin to leak.
Thx man. Can you use the copper gasket sealer on these gaskets and be ok? And do you have to drain the oil before this job?
Use gasket sealer for sure, thin layer style. No you don't need to drain oil unless you drop coolant in the oil
What gasket sealer do you recommend?
How are those promax heads? Any issues and how is the performance??
How do I know if I’m experiencing this issue described @11:09
you lost me at shop rag. I rebuilt an engine awhile back that lost oil pressure after break in. pulled pan and found red lint clogging the pick up. i couldnt believe it. I didnt use them that much i had thought. now they arent even allowed in my engine biulding room.
Sounds like a you problem
Still looks cold in the garage....stay warm
Good ol 20-30 degrees 👍
Character building weather I guess.
Someday it will get better - I hope!
Do you have to put any thread sealant on the the bolts to the front timing cover? The ford repair manual said that it was needed.
The 4 long bolts go into the water jacket, I would indeed put something on them or they will rust in place
D
D
Does any one know what the brand name on the timeing cover is?
IIRC, this was .060 right? Man, you got that block a long while ago.
Yeah, I think it’s been two years almost now. Didn’t realize how busy I’d be in life.
I could us a little help. Im needing the water pump part number if anyone has it from the exact water pump in the video.
Been eyeballing those promaxx heads on summit. Decent price. What set did you end up picking up? Curious how they are going to work out in long run. My 289 may be wearing a set before summer. happen to get any video of valvetrain assembly or review the quality of the castings?
I do - if you sift through I did one last year.
These are promaxx bare castings finished out by skip white performance in Tennessee.
I’m very much impressed. Shipped to me completed they were $980
Double row timing chains look cool but the little rollers don't actually turn or roll there not persion enough
Yeah they make a huge difference actually. Take if from someone who has logged over 300,000 miles on engines they built themselves
Luke, Do you have the torque values for the water pump bolts? Thanks, great vid
Thanks! Personally I use lock washers and go for feel! Never had a single issue 👍
You know...I was just thinking I probably didn't turn it over enough until it all lined up...rookie mistake..
Is this the engine you got from mabbco?
Yes it is
What year is this Engine?
I put gasket maker on both side and it still leaked
Wrong assortment of parts
using silicone with paper gasket always causes a leak. I stopped doing that years ago escspecially on the ford crappy timing cover. The worst of the v8 timing covers.
If using gasket sealer caused you to have leaks it's because you were ungodly slow on assembly and torque.
No other possible scenario
@@ThunderHead289 even felpro doesn’t recommend using sealer on paper gaskets, only on the corners. It’s just monkey see, monkey do for all us shade tree mechanics.
Just so you know they make spray a tack in an aerosol can that's way too much silicone you'll split a gasket eventually!!!
I won’t and never have . It’s a thin layer. Spray to tack does not account for surface anomalies that would otherwise cause leaks if not sealed
Fail
Michael Dunn like all people should be, im open to criticism.
What do you not like?
Let’s discuss. - this page is a service to further the knowledge of others so they don’t have to learn the hard way like I did - I’m all for putting out truth
I wanna know too. This is how I did it on my 63 Mercury. No issues.
@@ThunderHead289 First problem I have is with pounding on the crankshaft. This WILL damage your thrust bearings. Never do it.
Thx dad