Classical Musicians suck at Electronic Music
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- Опубликовано: 28 ноя 2024
- Ever seen a classical pianist sit down at a synth for the first time and play it like a piano? That was probably me. So, maybe I can explain why electronic music/production is a difficult thing for most classical musicians to approach...or maybe I can't.... Let's find out....
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The number of folks who will comment on a video without watching it is pretty surprising innit?
That's what you get when you give a clickbait title to a nuanced 13 minute essay
@@tubitubi2434 You’ve just described how this platform works
I'm gonna only comment, that I'm not gonna watch. And this: what did you expect when you made a provocative title?
@@piotrmalewski8178 To get more views. RUclips titles are like argumentative essay headlines. They state an opinion and then either support or disprove it.
@@JamesonNathanJones You know, a few hundreds years ago, even popular novels had ridiculously long titles, explaining what exactly is the book about. If we're not dumb to be fooled forever, at some point I think people will get tired of flashy and confusing titles and will look for long descriptive ones. I opened this video only because I got angry when I saw but I don't feel like watching. Although perhaps there would be things in the video we could argue about, I clicked in few places, noticed that you seem to know what you're talking about and the title is merely a provocation, so I passed. But even if you needed to be corrected, I feel like I should value my time and learn new things instead of keep arguing about the old ones. So I mainly passed because you seem to be talking about things I already know.
We all live in brian eno's 1979 dream world of vertically stacked asynchronous loops. It's worth acknowledging that linear composition still has a place in ambient music.
Absolutely
Well I live in Finland at my house.
I have no clue what you said but Eno is a maestro
@@FloatingLeaf1111 banjo? Cool, any ambient examples you'd recommend?
Parts of the Outer Wilds soundtrack get a sort of ambient banjo thing going on. Especially Space (track 4). I'll link the whole OST below. After playing the game, I can't hear those three notes on the banjo without tearing up anymore, I'm misty eyed just from going to find the link.
ruclips.net/video/C59AUL804WQ/видео.html
Have you noticed how many classical musicians start using those dreamy, new-age synth sounds when they get into electronic music? It's totally cool though, there's nothing wrong with that :)
Made me think of how the CS-80 seems to take some inspiration from organs (the sliders even work like drawbars)
@@tukoijarrett9155 I mean it's in the same line of synthesizers as a synth organ Yamaha made around the same time (it's actually a direct descendant of one of them i think)
Yes, and it makes me feel like I've taken for granted all the various synth textures I've absorbed from pop and dance music over the years
Dream Trance?
I feel kinda called out though since I was a choir kid
Though I still do contemporary classical stuff now
"How can I activate the reverb on this organ?"
"Put it in a church"
As a classically trained violinist going to do a degree in electronic music production this is devastating news
Haha well if it helps, it’s a RUclips title and not a blanket truth. Just some things I struggled with when starting out personally.
@@JamesonNathanJones first year undergraduate pianist here! I made the tragic mistake of falling in love with modular synths just months before I started conservatoire😂 I did literally dedicate all my life to this one instrument, but any tips to survive the next few years without dropping out?
@@hoi4847 That's definitely a personal decision you'll have to make, but I would never discourage anyone from specializing in something. I think when you go that deeply into something you learn skills that translate to everything else you will go on to do - so rather than thinking of it as wasted time, think of it as immersing yourself in something for a season. You can always learn about synths on the side and then turn your attention to it later, and since you've already developed an interest in it, you already have an advantage.
@@JamesonNathanJones really really appreciate this Jameson🙌 and all the good work you're doing here!
I'm always kinda shocked by how foreign musical genres except for classical stuff are to classical musicians.
No front btw.
Finally someone says something about us, classically trained musicians that love the new world of sound control and creation potentially provided by the synth world. Very interesting your thoughts about vertical / horizontal music narrative, at the end of the day it will always be a technical/formal approach that makes music composition what it is. Thank you so much for sharing :)
get this: I am classically trained in...analogue modular synthesis, composition, 21st c. music history, and theory by a composer who was a contemporary of Schoenberg. (I'm also a certified audio engineer who studied "capital-S" Soundscape, but that's another conversation) ...however many of the excellent points you make, I too have struggled with, despite my training.
in fact, the points you bring up about timbre, complexity, pacing, and space remind me of discourse which was part of my early training in synthesis - such as the early debate between the RDF studios in Paris and the Elektronich school at the WDR in Köln, surrounding recorded sound objects and "purely" electronic sounds, respectively; or the primacy of onset transients, attack phase characteristics, and sympathetic physical resonances in determining the difference between real life instruments, Soundmarks, ambient environmental keynote sounds, or whatever noise you can (literally) imagine. what makes a pizz'ed violin string sound different from plucked acoustic guitar string, or an emergency vehicle siren distinct from a train whistle or car horn, etc.
while the purpose was not explicitly to instruct a 'how to' guide to designing synthetic applications of their real-world acoustic counterparts, the exploration of topics like the acoustic properties of wave propagation physics did help me to view sound design as integral to advanced synthesis techniques and vice versa. it makes sense - after all, in real-world acoustics timbre is inextricably linked to pitch, and vice versa, for just one example, and because the synthesizer's signal must eventually be transduced into the same pressure differentials in the medium of atmosphere in order to be heard, the same thing should be true of such so-called 'synthesized' voices.
🙏💚🧡 j'adhère totalement. Je n'ai pas de formation mais c'est agréable d'entendre parler avec passion experte, de ce que moi même je recherche comme création!👍
That's so cool
Schoenberg? Whatever you're involved in must be pretty degenerate non music then.
Your video resonated with me on many levels. I’m also a classically trained pianist whose career was sidetracked due to arthritis. I could play at a lower technical level in more improvisatory settings. I love jazz but the physical limitations also became profound in that world as well. Arthritis interfered not only with velocity but also with rhythmic articulation. But, still, I’ve had a fun and mostly satisfying career in theater, music directing, arranging and composing, and other musical pursuits. Now in my 70s, I’m drawn to synthesis where limited keyboard technique is not a barrier, and a wildly wide world of sound is available. I haven’t gone Euro but I have a couple of semi-modular Moogs that I love, a Typhon, access to a Microfreak, plus a bunch of software synths. Finally to my point: I struggle with finding my ‘voice’ in synth world partly because of the structure and limitations of sequencing. I’m not drawn to EDM in any serious way. Endless pattern repetition with a 4-on-the-floor kick can actually be fun, but I have other interests. The story you tell about synthesizing (pun intended) your classical bent with sound design encourages me to continue with similar ideas I’ve been experimenting with - writing linearly and contrapuntally and, in my case, incorporating some of the harmonic language of jazz, of Bartok and Prokofiev, of Messiaen’s scales of limited transposition, of Ravel and Debussy, etc. I’ve realized a few turned on Bach pieces which was fun and instructive, but, of course, I want to create my own path. - as you are doing. Thank you for the insight and inspiration! Cheers.
Isoa Tomita did AMAZING realizations of classical music on the synthesizer.
Gary numan still writes every single song on piano first and then translates it into the industrial sound he gets. I love your videos recently. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate it.
Thanks John 🙏
Gary Numan is an absolute legend :)
Just saw him in Milwaukee, great show.
Vince Clarke (Depeche Mode, Erasure, Yazoo) said in an interview he writes all of his songs on acoustic guitar. He said something about the sound design getting in the way of the melodies and harmonies while writing. That stuff comes in later when he's doing arrangement and production. Seems like a sensible approach.
There also is this female synthesist I can't remember the name of, who spent her entire career playing only the Arp 2600. When asked why she stuck to just one synth she stated that she felt like she was still learning the Arp every time she played it. In other words, she treated her synth like a classical musician would treat their acoustic instrument, perfecting her mastery of it through a lifetime of experience.
Incidentally, I have no classical background, but my introduction to playing a musical instrument was on an old electronic organ at the age of 6, and I think my love and my understanding for messing with different timbres began there, so your comments about how the organ helped you understand synths resonated with me a lot.
@@gladtobeangry I think you are referring to Eliane Radigue and her ARP 2500, an amazing artist ruclips.net/video/lcy5fLcAsQQ/видео.html
I am also a classical musician who bought Ableton Live and started working with sound design fairly late. I can absolutely relate to your problems, but as a brass player, we actually have more control over attack, decay vibrato and sound color than on keyed instruments. Working with synths has actually introduced another approach to what the a trombone does and wants to achieve in different contexts!
You can't measure passion. You are a great mind and you are so great to get to know. Have you ever played something you never played before and it moved you to tears, or joy, or a color? Imagine the first humans who discovered around a fire the sound of the universe. They had no rules. Love what you are doing. Thanks.
The music starting at 9:47 is so stunningly beautiful, I went immediately looking for it. And I found it! You are very talented.
The background music while he speaks is magnificent, I like how it demonstrates what he's talking about a lot of the time. It's so nice.
Producing sounds from a synth is truly an art on it’s own, it’s like sculpting clay, you keep shaping it till your pleased with the results. Producing a song from all the different synth sounds is skill on a whole different level, there may aspects and levels of complexity you will need to learn\master from experimenting as you go along or watching video tutorials. Good Luck on your music journey - cheers!
Great video, Jameson! I often have my piano students play their pieces on keyboards using different sounds, and then ask them to try and explain how they might change their playing to better fit the different timbres
I love that!
That must make it so much fun for them Gabe. Expanding their thinking - teaching music, not just piano.
@@unclemick-synths it’s a great gateway to composition and even other considerations for keyboard playing. Like Jameson says in the video, organ, even though it has a keyboard it’s a completely different mindset than piano, or Rhodes, or Clavinet, or synth etc etc.
I sometimes do this too. I really like playing Bach pieces using synthwave synths and sounds, just for my own entertainment
As a former music student, I have felt so much of what you have so eloquently put into words. Also, the music in this is brilliant. You are a god damn genius.
I really love making music, but I can't play any instrument without a decent amount of pain -- something like arthritis from a young age. Discovering electronic music now in my 40s has been a blessing. I can't tell you how amazing it is to be able to play music without the physical dexterity that is usually required. I can push notes around on a piano roll and play with the synth, and take my time with it.
I've had the challenge (and joy) of tackling the first thing in my life that seems to have no beginning or end. Academically, I wanted to maybe get some degree. Professionally, maybe there's some salary, some company, some accolade a person can have as a goal -- heck, maybe a solid retirement decades later. Athletes usually have discrete goals as well. Music production is the first thing I've ever done that has no obvious milestone for success; no long term goal. That is, I have no aspirations of fame and fortune like some of the kids have. I just do it because I love it. It's not my day job. It's not the thing that pays the bills.
Even if I were to strive for a long term goal with music, what would it be? If learning an instrument, I assume a goal could be to play a particular piece well. For producing your own music, without a goal relating to how your work is received by others (popularity)... Well, I haven't thought of one yet...
Anyway, it's a nebulous thing, and hearing what it's like from you and others in the comments that have approached it from the opposite side, where you have all this physical dexterity and muscle memory, and not to mention education generally with music, it is very interesting.
If you love it, the thing itself is its own reward. Cheers :)
Set the goal of making a piece that *you're* happy with. Listening to others and their feedback is important but at the end of the day it's about making something you enjoy and that you can be proud of.
Isao Tomita got me completely into classical music. Still love to revoice classic Midis through my synths.😁🎵🎹🎶Play On
Kinda weird since my first musical passion was Classical as a young child and I feel like it laid the foundation for being able to appreciate artists like Autechre and more experimental sounds. I could understand from a skill standpoint and thinking of using solely a piano to fill up all the space, which might create a vacuum for creativity when it comes to filling out electronic music given that sound design can take you further than arrangement, but one of the reasons I gravitated towards Classical music was it's structure i.e. they're movements full of dynamics, not "songs" or "tracks" and i preferred that energy over more formulaic radio music. But I do notice sitting at the keyboard for me there's very little actual playing and more hen picking or playing a single vote to achieve that "sound" than prove something compositionally. Or like I can sit there at a synth and "compose" something...but it's there's so much going on it just doesn't sound good with anything else. And there's unstructured music I make in movements too, but without the chops. I kinda look at myself as the whole orchestra, not just one instrument. Like you're the conductor telling what sections to play & when; pianists are used to being in the spotlight, playing through the entire time. So I could understand that mindset too. I dunno, I usually relegate any sort of actual piano playing & practice to days I'm bored or don't feel like working on a project. I've basically given up on trying to add any sort of real "playing" in my music and just save that for other times
I wish every single person in my life that feels I’m wasting my time and money on what I love to do would watch this awesome insightful video you just created! Thank you!!!
How can you be "wasting" your time and money, if its a thing you love? Isn't that the goal of said investment?
@@earlgrey2130 you’d sure think so, wouldn’t you? Some in my family feel I wasted my classical background I think mainly when I grew my hair long and started an eighties metal band! Lol, back then metal was classical so I thought it was an advantage, nowadays there’s no future in it, but my own enjoyment!
I can relate to that. Have heard phrases my whole live. Something like:"Don't you just wan't to do real work" I absolutely hate this narrow mindset. For some people music seem to be a acoustic stimulus.... and that's it. They aren't able to understand the beauty of it. because it is nothing you can hold in your hand.
I have to deal with heavy depressions and i can tell. For me, making music is not waste of time..... It keeps me alive...
Don't worry about people's opinions. Some people will never understand.
As long as you want to, keep going.
Your life. Your time. Your money. Your smiles. Enjoy them.
John Adams' Light Over Water is about the only successful 'classical' synth-featuring piece I know.
I love your recent videos as they bring AFAIK a unique angle to synth RUclips (synthclassicaltube? classicalsynthstube?)! Please more of this!
Nice to see a video on the topic. About 30 years ago, I was a teenager learning classic piano, but also composing electronic music on a computer. For me, electronic music was using a tracker and a computer keyboard. I didn't even bother with midi controllers for tracker style music as they can be highly impractical. And best of all, it was all free.
I tried getting back to it and just ended frustrated. Lots of tools evolved but now you have to dish out money everywhere or grab the exact same tools I was using 30 years ago to make tracker music. I feel there is a gap in music making currently.
Fascinating video. I always kind of assumed a pianist's skill would be a 1:1 transfer but it was interesting to hear your experience and challenges adapting to the synth. All Things Fade is a beautiful piece, it really does capture that chorale sound really well!
Thank you!
There’s a video of Andrew Huang and Rob Scallion where Andrew introduces Rob (a very skilled guitarist) to his huge modular synth. Over the course of the video, Rob catches hold of this concept. He initially tries to program a chord progression into the synth, which just does not work. Once he embraced the sound design aspect that Andrew was trying to teach him, the creativity and excitement of music make just exploded. It was incredibly fun to watch.
Your insight and approach is incredibly great. I'd say an artist who combines classical piano training with electronic music is Haywyre. He writes absolutely beautiful piano pieces alongside complex, layered electronic textures.
Musicians sometimes get too focused on trying to emulate XYZ instead of first playing what sounds or feels good to them, then stretching a bit outside their comfort zone until they find something novel and beautiful.
You are actually the first who I ever see explaining this 'problem' on a very logical and understandable level in just one video.
Especially the link between being classically educated, being a composer and then struggling with that other thing that no one ever mentions: the craftsmanship of sound design.
In the past exactly that has been a burden to me. Getting the knowledge on sound design, because to me - being a composer, with a fully developed classical schooled background - it was the only wall I was constantly running against when trying to record compositions in the digital world. This constantly trying to find the best ways how to translate that what I heard in my mind into the right fitting sounds.
Absolutely very well done, how you define that issue in this video!
the synth patch at 4:29 sounded so beautiful and haunting, i love synths like that
Always interesting, Jameson, thanks for sharing your thoughts! Also, from someone who is practicing and trying to improve their piano playing and theory, I appreciate these and other recent videos. Great stuff!
Thanks so much!
👍🙏💚🧡 I did not studied music, so what I do is melodies, and soundscapes or linear type pieces. I start on an idea and uses, Nature sounds I register, classic Fatar 88 controller and I'm actually going to modular, to multiplie my palet of initial music. I use mostly midi tracks and music is by pleasure not by obligation to produce for others. As I was young, at Four to Ten years old I loved to open the totally detune piano there was at my grandma's home, so I learned harmonics, more than notes, but openig the piano and listenig this world was my grand pleasure. Fifteen years ago, I brought an old piano I have totally retuned, and as old synths were on the market at low price, I found a Korg M1, a Juno 6, and a SH2000, and slowly I began to build my proper musical world. I don't want to fall in technological trapp. I play Recorder bass and Clarinet sib, love church organs, for their long modulation, Tangerine dreams at begining, mixing sounds from Nature, classic instruments, and technological analogical music, but no particular rhythmic than a bird singing can produce, or men at work in the fields. So, my rules are simple , I need a palet and I play around few ideas, begining to go together . I like your linear approach.
I'm also a pianist who plays organ, and I've played with software synths a bit. I loved the sound of the examples you put in here and it got me wanting to try making some more electronic music!
Go for it!
I asked this in my own thread, but I imagine your perspective will be informative: Between the piano and the organ, how much did your skill and training in the first one you learned transfer to the second? Was it as jarring as what we see with the keyboard?
This is an interesting take, rather than saying "this is the way" or "that is the way" to say "they're two different ways to achieve two different things". I had a classical background, threw most of my theory out the window after grade school and became a pedal player, and eventually moved on to synths. The best way to look at a synth from a piano perspective is that it is essentially a piano, but one that someone said "wouldn't it be neat if it could do this?" over and over again to the point where you need a manual and a history lesson just to understand WHY it makes the sounds that it does, and then only BEGIN to understand how to make it sound the way you want. I know I'm not alone in having set a patch that makes no sound, and then having taken 5 minutes trying to figure out which knob or fader is causing the issue. As a lover of the classics and the synths I think that Ravel's Bolero would be an amazing song to marry the two styles. It's basically a sequence being patched to different instruments each time around while adding to the rhythm channel bit by bit.
In the middle of the video I picked up my guitar (im not at all trained at it), put together some delays and reverbs and "played" for an hour or two. And your video made me do that instead of going to bed. thanks
great video, ive been a producer for a decade now but have no classical training... never really thought about this... its interesting to see how training different instruments translate over to making electronic music.
I'm also a classically trained pianist and vocalist, and I can't believe that I'm only now getting into synthesizers at 35. Even just learning the parts of a synth and how they all work together to make sounds is totally changing the way I hear and write music, to say nothing of the really cool results I'm getting from just playing around on a MicroFreak. It took me a few weeks to feel confident enough to try to make some of my own patches, but now that I've started to, I'm really excited about what I'll be able to do with practice. Another big barrier for me at first was the way I was approaching the synth keyboard as I would the piano's, which is just a totally different beast. I feel like I've learned a lot just from watching other synthesists play and gaining some intuition around how my hands and fingers will have to work to get the results I want.
That’s awesome! Yeah the way the sound influences how you play (or don’t play) has been fascinating for me as well.
@@JamesonNathanJones one thing I’m also encountering in my (symphonic) work is that I’m great at texture and density, but I have a really hard time balancing different parts of the frequency spectrum. Like, I seem to have a much better intuition for how to fill the top end than the bottom end. And often when I mix my own work, whether it’s symphonic or electronic, I find that they always end up being very treble-heavy. It’s striking me how little ear training I’ve gotten around the elements of studio recording production, and synthesis is helping me to develop more of an ear for those things. I’ve been going through Syntorial, which I really enjoy. I wonder if you also notice that classical musicians have difficulty when transitioning from primarily live performance to studio production-it’s honestly been really humbling to learn how much help my ears have needed 😂
@@karlsaintlucy I certainly struggled with mixing/production early on. It’s typically not something a classical performer has to think about. It’s more similar to orchestration, but there’s still a new world of terminology and sensibilities to learn. I think, as with anything, it’s normal to struggle when you’re just starting something new.
@@karlsaintlucy Don't worry, it's a struggle we all have. Keep the low end clean and you won't go wrong.
Just bear in mind that it's the presence frequencies (mid frequencies) of the bass sounds that count in the mix and the amount of low end energy is managed using EQ. Well-balanced mids are key to translatability of a mix between listening environments. Sparkly highs and deep lows are the icing, not the cake.
@@karlsaintlucy the thing I like about the MicroFreak is that the "keyboard" encourages experimentation in a way that a regular keyboard doesn't.
Superb advice. It’s taken me almost 2 decades to detach myself from my classical training and fully immerse myself in electron composition.
I'd like to be the first to make an ionic comment, but I'm positive that will be taken negatively.
Awesome video! This is a journey I've been on as someone who's spent most of my life studying classical piano and just recently getting into the world of synthesizers. So many possibilities with timbre and sound shaping.
Lovely thoughts, fantastic music, and I agree a great deal.
One other aspect with the difference between synth music and traditional classical music is that classical music is meant to be reproducible through performance, where with synths and electronic music, the recording itself is the music - even if you look at the synth patch as analogous to the instrumentation of classical music,any patches are dependent on effects, mixing and recording processes, etc. for the full intended musical impact. This is just a different way of thinking about music - and even affects things like practice techniques, since you also have to practice building patches or working with different effect chains, etc.
I do think electronic musicians can take a page out of classical musical sensibilities by focusing more on technique and even concepts of practice. If your music has a live aspect, there's always room to grow in your physical comfort, competency, and consistency with your instrument(s) of choice. This becomes even more important if you really only focus on a limited number of synths rather than succumbing to GAS. But I am a proponent of learning how to pull as much as possible out of one single instrument over being passable in a few aspects of multiple synths. But that's probably the classical cellist in me coming out!
Great points here!
I think your (stunning) synth-based compositions in some cases reveal your classical training, because of the coherence. I'd be interested to see you make a short groove-based non-ambient track with drums and without reverb, just for kicks. Maybe there's already material like that on the channel, I haven't listened to it all.
I think there are a couple tracks on my last album that venture into that territory, though there are still some ambient elements: Turning and Roots maybe.
Hats off to you Jameson.Instead of reeling back into the Classical world = real music ,you've learned about the differences and now see the virtues of both .
WAAAIT? you composed "All things repeat"? I just came across your channel and I didn't notice that it was the same name as one of my favourite artists... lol
Haha that’s awesome! I appreciate that 🙏
You're the best creator i've found in a long while! I think your composition is absolutely breathtaking and you've inspired me deeply to go and figure out what keeps a song moving and interesting. As a fellow classical musician myself, I struggle mostly with fluidness when it comes to composing non-classical music but you've cleared out some of the clouds for me and for that i am grateful, so thank you for doing what you do and keep on creating!
Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful :)
Interesting to hear your own saga of bridging the gap from classical piano to synth playing/composing. I can only partially relate to your struggle. Even though I started with classical piano taugh to me at age 5 by my grandfather (who played in the Boston Symph), I was exposed to a lot of orchestra and jazz music on the radio. Probably the single thing that helped me bridge the gap to synths (in hindsight) was starting to play trombone in the 7th grade. Playing a brass wind instrument intuitively gave me a general understanding of ADSR and high pass filter functions of synths, because music for trombone varied enough to give me real-life experiences with such things. Fiddling a lot on my high school friend's electronic organ also filled a few gaps for me.
The pop synth song, "Popcorn," really opened my eyes (and ears) to possibilities that went beyond "real" instrument's ability to produce sound. And because of peer pressure in the 8th grade, I was more and more was getting over my aversion to pop music, because here and there, I heard a very well-crafted song, some of them being enhanced by early synths. I was very intrigued with Nights in White Satan by the Moody Blues, not just for its classical music ending (which is what initially attracted me), but with the haunting lo-fil violin sound, which turned out to be made by a Mellotron, which was the equivalent of an analog (non-digital) sampler.
Like many classical synth lovers, I enjoyed Walter/Wendy Carlos Swiched-On Bach and all of Tomita's stuff. But I was blown away by Keith Emerson of ELP, who was taking synths into a realm that went beyond classical, beyond jazz, and into a wonderful new genre of progressive rock. Arguably, Chick Correa's Return to Forever was also an important and (in my opinion) the only true fusion of rock and jazz, which nicely included synths as something that held that genre together.
During college, thanks to a job I had as a sound engineer at a theme park, being constantly indunated by a another engineer's obsesson with 80's music, I finally "got it," and started to see new ways to use synths. Groups like Devo, Yello, Art of Noise, Depeche Mode, ended up being major influences for me initially.
By the 80's, I also started to run into a growing number of synth HATERS. Trained musicians hated them, because they say synths as taking their jobs (it did in many ways). Possibly more interesting (and defintetely more irririating to me), where NON-musicians, especially those who went to high school BEFORE the 80's, thought of synths as "CHEATING." They would say, "those are not REAL instruments," and often would say it takes "NO TALENT" to play one of them. In their mind, synths only required you to hold down one note for an entire song. 80's music, and the growing electronic music set of genres tended to produce more modal (and/or mono-chordal) music, so in a small sense, their criticism was correct. But as you pointed out in your video, one can argue that much of the work done to create synth music involves the PROGRAMMNING of the synth. Thanks to great increases in music technology, especially in the digital realm, aspects of synth programming has jumped far beyond synths, but have become integrated with a vast array of software algorithm apps that can take sounds of not only the synths, but each and every track of a song, and be able to "re-synthezie" all the sounds into just about anything else you want to make it, which is only limited to the abilities of the user to use these apps to manipulate the sounds.
Because of all this music technology, it has created a kind of music genre that I have not really heard people talk about directly. I call it "EAR CANDY" music. This is not meant to sound derogatory. What I mean by it, is to listen to what I consider to be cutting-edge electronic music that shows off a lot of heavy creative editing work, but also includes a good amount of great song-crafting, which I think provides a kind of emotional basis of the song (similar to all older genres seem to try to do). "Ear candy" in music has been around for a long time. When the celeste was invented, there was a race between different composers to use that in their music. I think Tchaikovsky won it, when he used it in his Nutcraker music.
I have greatly enjoyed and continue to enjoy my journey with synths and all its related music technology. But one irony, that at least as a composer, I have found that after treading through numerous genres in my songs, I seem to more and more infuse my original classical music influences into them, albeit, I always try to tweak something in the songs to go places that my composer heros of the past have not gone before.
Please forgive me for being so verbose. And if possible, take it as a compliment. Your video triggered a lot of thinking, and I greatly appreciated that.
i’m so happy the youtube algorithm decided to throw you on my homepage, I was just about running dry for interesting ambient pieces to listen to and now i’ve been introduced to a whole new level of auditory beauty
Thanks so much!
The most amazing part of this video is that you have an iridium that works. I'm envious. I spent a lot of time on learning it before purchase only to end up crushed time and again. Volume spikes, weird popping sounds, and issues with the sequencer - it crushes me every time I see one that's functional. Anyway, thanks for what you do, much respect for your professionalism in skill and knowledge.
I'd imagine that Suzanne Ciani has grappled with these same struggles. I think she approached it with hard shifts in focus, synths, then piano, now back to synths.
What an awesome and insightful video!!! I love the concepts explored here. I don't have musical background, just picked up stuff along the way, so I have the opposite problem, I need to be very aware of not having my creations to rely too much on sounds and not having an interesting melody, need to find the balance
I've gotten into electronic music production last year, when I got sick for a longer period of time. As someone who avidly listened to music my entire life, I had funnily enough never really learned Music. I still try to wrap my head around scales, tempos and everything else. Envelopes and LFOs were a great mystery at the beginning, as I tried to work out the difference.
Time skip a bit to today, where I stumbled upon your video. I've learned a lot thanks to it and was positively surprised as I have been doing things that you mentioned. These are two of the things, which kind of combine into a whole:
Firstly I try to find/create interesting sounds and then create my melodies on a stock Grand Piano Synth, that comes with the sample project of the DAW that I am using, just to make sure that it sounds interesting enough, before putting both together and then proceeding to fine tune from there.
Thanks for the great video.
That ethereal, slowly evolving kind of sound in the track starting at 9:50 is exactly the kind of music I want to make, but I'm the most musically illiterate person I know. I understand a little more with the modular synths because I know generally how waves and waveshaping work, but I really have no idea how to take it from science experiment to music, even though I've got a better handle on music theory than a lot of the musicians I know.
I wish I'd been introduced to making music when I was a kid, because as an adult I feel like I've got dead ears or something. Even trying to learn how to play traditional instruments like the piano, I spend months learning scales and then give up when I can't figure out how to turn them into anything. I'll give your ebook a try, though, because maybe it's a composition block as much as anything else.
I'm liking and commenting on every video you post cause this channels is CRIMINALLY underrated.
I see you and appreciate you friend!
Thanks Nathan, as a pianist myself (classical training for 8 years in my younger years) who now has too much synth and modular gear, keep up the good work and the informative videos.
Amazed to hear you drop Trent's name an inspiration to us all. Thanks
I like your search on new sounds, the journey from classical instruments like the organ/ piano to new territory combining it with synthesis. Also the knowledge on theory is pretty inspiring. I also came from an organ background and later on the bass and now also totally into synthesis. But the only thing I can do is test and improvise. But also growing in it. Nice movies, cheers from Holland
Thanks Rene! The experimentation process is a tremendous amount of fun. Happy exploring!
5:05
Your voive on top of the synth on the moment you say: "Here" it's just magical.
Really appreciate the in-depth perspective. Always remember to consider limitations and what you may bring in from them.
This was really interesting insight. As a "casual" musician at first (drums, guitar...) I slid towards more and more electronic genres as ambient/drone/psy-trance/experimental, and all those really pushed sound synthesis focused music. I always thought that the abilities that synths provides us to invent new music is beyond imagination. I remember the first time I recorded guitar on a proper DAW and went ham into absolutely annihilating the sound of the instrument and making something totally different and unexpected. The secret lies in the marriage of both I believe as well.
Glad I randomly stumbled on this video, I was never trained in classical music and it helped me understand the subtilities you guys can bring.
I'm also getting strong vibes of Nils Frahm from your music, who for me revolutionized how you could integrate organic feelings with electronic music so wonderfully.
Thanks !
Dude, I hope you keep exploring electronic music with your background of classical pianist. I came first from electronic music and went to study a bit of piano, classical musicians are always fascinated/confused by stuff I tell them about electronic music.
When I am composing I rarely have any passion for synth timbre. When I am arranging I want perfect patches and I want them asap. However when I a noodling on a patch or building one from dirt I never intend to use it for anything ever.
Very glad I've stumbled on your channel! The video itself was also revealing for me as I'm jumping into synthesis myself from a more formal pianistic backgroung. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject!
That was a pretty honest look at the process from your point of view. Looking forward to seeing what you put out in the future
This channel is a treasure trove since I've also studied composition for decades while at the same time producing electronica. I have never found an outlet where folks discuss these topics as a combo and certainly not on a level as passionate as I ponder about them.
I got my first synth in 2015, a Prophet 6... when I first sat down with it, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. Then when I started to figure it out, I got frustrated because I was approaching it as a classically trained pianist. Fast forward a couple of years and I no longer approach it as a pianist. I look at it as a noise-sound machine.
I know how to program it now and design my own sounds but I no longer approach it a pianist. If I need something in the production but I`m not sure exactly what, I sit down and start to fool around with it. Most of the time I create sounds that on their own kind of suck but in the context of the song, those sounds serve a specific role.
It definitely was a challenge to get to this point but I also know, I can program that synth to create a beautiful sound that can stand on its own now.
Then in 2021, I got the Matriarch... I`m still trying to figure it out but now I actually enjoy the process because I understand synthesis alot more than I did 8 years ago. There is also something fun about not knowing exactly what you`re doing.
In that process of exploration, we sometimes create something that is so far beyond anything we could ever get on a traditional instrument. Thats the beauty of synthesizer.
I see synths as their own unique sound machines now. They could be extensions of traditional instruments but its best to approach them with beginners mind.
I am a upcoming hiphop artist and producer trying to find my own approach to making original compositions: this video gave me confidence to compose sounds in a way that seems right to my ear. I am learning to trust my own ears rather than abiding stricitly to rules!!!
It's the first time i see content from this channel pop up in my feeds...it feels kinda weird because i watch a lot of synths and electronic music content.
Great content and subscribed 👏!
Looking from different perspectives when approaching music is something i like to do aswell 😂
I am a classical pianist and I you nailed some of my questions with great answers. I love your videos and your thoughts! Thanks!!
I graduated from college as a music major (primary guitar). I do know about electronic music but all I know is 80's Synthpop, Wendy Carlos, and I composed one trap music.
There was the composer, and the director, and the performer, and then there was the DAW and it made us all audio gods.
I play piano in a classical orchestra, trumpet and Hammond in a jazz combo and make 90s trance in my private studio and love all music and I'm on YT to get new ideas for a new synth with analog filters and find your footwork concerns the church organ very well
I've always wondered how a classical pianist would approach a keyboard synth, so thanks for the answer. Comes out I was figuring this out right: he'd show a great expertise on the symphonical side that it wouldn't fit how it sounds, because the very creation from scratch of a sound is something a classical musician never has to deal with. And btw loved to hear all of this concept at 0:52 😂😂
Thats so interesting. Many classic trained musician i know make the most boring and average house and techno music. But a few do make fantástic interesting sounds. It's a whole new world of music and sounds they must explore
Man, your content has been so good lately! Great stuff.
As someone who grew up using digital daws i still look at traditional composition as Inspiration and kinda add that energy into electronic projects i produce
Dude! The electronic examples you've shown are right up my alley of music! Gave me mad me-bumps~
Gonna rifle through your stuff, see ya in a bit!
I would LOVE a curriculum that is uniquely tailored to teach music theory in the context of Synths. I really think there is a awesome middle ground where a student could really and truly understand music at an entirely different level, something neither domain could achieve alone. For example, the student would understand that certain sounds cannot be played in 1/16th notes since the sustain/release is long, but they then get introduced to "choke groups" and then they understand that is the purpose of the sustain and expression pedals on pianos!
As a person going the other way, Synth-head/Sound Designer learning music theory, I value the structure and focus. In my last 20 years, the elements of a single sound mattered more to me than how it would interact with other sounds, instruments, or even questionably be considered "music", since some patches were "FX".
However, as I learn music theory, terms "polyphony", "detune", "vibrato", "timbre", and "resonance" all start to take additional meaning, more than just some hardware or software limitation or feature of a sound. They have "meta-definitions" that span not just the single sound but across an entire piece, song, or album.
After watching this, I wonder if it is even possible to teach one domain using the others "tools"? I suppose that is your point.
What I learned from this video is if I want to use my MiniFreak to learn piano and general music theory I must:
1. Find a patch that isn't overly complex, one which can sustain harmony, chords etc without deteriation of harmonics, some patches even in poly mode won't sound nice in a triad.
2. Use that patch every time, don't change it so I can learn muscle memory and train my ear.
purely and brilliantly said. I too am a classically trained musician who has been learning sound design and synthesis for the past 2 years. I don't think I have ever agreed with something so strongly before.
Fast becoming my favourite YT and your videos seem as timely as when I discovered your channel (if you can say that that within a month or so ago).
I started as a singer (always will be) then a guitarist, then synths and finally and more recently concentrating on piano, not so much to be a pianist (that ship has sailed) but to improve my keyboard skills (the attack of a note, the decay etc feels no less real than a synth but is more an extension of the player, not unlike a guitar) but on the way I wished I had the opportunity to play piano a long time ago.
It is such a fantastic compositional tool and is quick to let you know your compositional limits, ones that can't be covered by sound design, it makes no more or less than synths or any other instrument and is not without its own limitations of course but it is an incredible tool to express the melodies one can hear in their head or instinctively want to reach for and the transferrable skills can be a great short cut on other instruments.
You and I think very much alike, although your classical training went far beyond my own. I did study piano, organ and double bass by the time I was 18 but I didn't take it to degree level. I was a teenager in the late 1970s so synth music was very much a part of my experience back then, and I've played live in multiple genres since that time as well (Blues, Latin Jazz, Salsa, Soul, Funk, Prog Rock...) so I'm mixed up, like a kind of musical gumbo. I totally get what you said about linear composition and writing at the piano - this is something I still do. Glad I subscribed, and I'm downloading your ebook. Thank you!
Excellent presentation. I'm not a composer, a musician nor a sound engineer and many of the concepts discussed were new to me. You have a very nice pace and you use language very concisely, making your thought process easy to follow.
Now, I'll go have a listen to some of your pieces. Perhaps the algorithm is onto something here.
Really enjoyed this video. Could you do another one that dives deeper into playing/performing (and maybe designing) synth patches on a keyboard in a solo or small ensemble setting, taking your classical training into account? How to go beyond just executing "the right notes" on a synth patch.
As a musician who never has received classical training I found your video very insightful and inspiring. I actually liked the "classical" piece on that Prophet-12, even though I get the point of it being neither flesh nor fish. Keep up the good content!
As a jazz drummer “forced” to study classical (that I also loved) I’ll never forget the first lesson in the overtone series. It fascinated me. It was a revelation of quantum music. Flash forward a few decades and the immersion of electronic music is my main focus all thanks to that first lesson in “classical theory.” 5th species counterpoint? Why? There’s a whole universe inside a drone. ✌️
Interesting point. I have fond that a lot of traditional counterpoint concepts (including Fux's dreaded species lol) is very adaptable to an electronic music setting. For me (my opinion) the flexibility inherent in voiceleading is one strong element in imposing some kind of basic formal constraint on all those timbral and textural possibilities.
@@belleepoque4597 oh, I agree. I was just being a little hyperbolic. Good voice leading should never be dismissed even in electronic music. (if you’re composing in the more “traditional” sense with synthesizers.)
@@Tyrell_Corp2019 that's awesome. Thanks for the reply.
Excellent video. I think a lot of "disagreements" between classically trained and non-classically trained musicians is fear. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. For me a big differentiator is learning to play other people's compositions from the "dots" versus learning music by ear (whether other people's music or one's own).
I learnt bass guitar by ear, piano the classical way, and saxophone by a mix. My saxophone tutor was funny, he was a brilliant sight-reader but that coloured his self-image. He thought he couldn't play by ear yet our warm-up was a game of ping-pong where we would trade riffs! If he couldn't play by ear, he couldn't have repeated or answered my riffs because we had very different musical and cultural backgrounds so it wasn't like he was getting by with familiarity with the genre.
I love your perspective on this. I’ve been trying to develop my skills at keyboard for years now, and also recently dove into learning synth sound design (via Sarah Belle Reid’s class) and now I feel like I’m extremely mediocre at both, so it’s a struggle to figure out which angle to tackle making my own music from in any given moment: Sound design first, or “sheet music” first? Or back and forth and let one affect and mold the other? I’ll definitely be coming back to this to get perspective when I feel lost. And will probably post a link to this in the community forum for my classmates, because I think this could be a really good thing for us to discuss. Thanks again!
As someone who’s been making synth noises for the last 30 years I’m loving your music. You’re obviously a great writer of music, and your sounds are gorgeous.
I find the more complex the sound I design is, the less suited it is to be used in a track. I use a Novation Peak to do my most complicated sound design, but I rarely end up using the sounds in an actual piece. They’re too big, too dense, too harmonically rich to fit in with other instruments, and I hate to compromise them by filtering out chunks of them to allow vocals, bass, or whatever, the space to breathe. So they remain as detached sounds, things I listen to in isolation whilst watching fractal videos on RUclips. When I need to make sounds for actual pieces, they become much more like piano or guitar sounds.
All good points. From someone who cant play the piano to save my life... I would add that anyone who can would have more tools in the toolbox. Seems like you are making cool stuff either way! Keep it up
Although I was expecting to see Beethoven played on a synthesizer, I'm not disappointed that I got something different in return. Great video, probably the best explanation I've seen of the differences between the classical approach to music and sound design.
What a fantastic breakdown of electronic composition. Im studying electronic music at conservatory and have spent the last 3 years trying to wrap my head around what you explain here in mere minutes.
stumbled upon this video and i felt like it was god sent keep it up man love the way you break stuff down
I do want to emphasize though that I think a lot of the beauty & originality in electronic (& much other contemporary) music in this post-modern age where we have internet access to virtually all the art & music & culture of the historical record at our fingertips is in the synthesis of ideas & techniques & patterns & practices from different genres, different periods, different instruments- the breaking down of boundaries, the bringing together of old concepts in novel ways… Havibg a strong knowledge of classical composition, piano, & music theory opens all kinds of doors in electronic music production, even if you can’t just presume there will be a clean 1 to 1 translational equivalency of everything piano onto synth, & a significant part of the process of finding your personal voice in electronic music may very well be a process of adapting & modifying what you know of classical piano in order for it to work in electronic music. The fact that it takes work, that it doesn’t just automatically mesh if you sit down & record Chopsticks on a synth keyboard, doesn’t mean that there’s no value to be gleaned from the process of synthesizing what you know [in the dialectical sense of the word] with the world of electronic, or that it should be abandoned altogether & you just need to set everything you know about piano aside in order to learn electronic from square one. I mean sure, there’s plenty to learn that is unique to electronic production. It is a very different ballgame, as you clearly recognized. To get a really good outcome you’ll probably need both of those aspects to be strong & I think the understanding of music theory (the “universal grammar” which underlies all of the idiosyncrasies & unique aspects of different genres, like the skeleton or DNA coding upon which everything else rests, from which all the relatively surface level diversity of music emerges) will help immensely, because understanding that, you can work out how to make songs in whatever style you want; it’s just a matter of learning the tools necessary to put that theory into practice. And one big benefit of learning production is that, like music theory, there’s a certain universality to it. Once you know how to work with synths & samples & sample players, how to record & mic instruments & mix (& ideally master) & use effects properly, etc., you can use those skills to produce basically any style of music, past or present. With electronic synthesis & sample-work, you can introduce classical piano samples you record of yourself over a hard ass hip-hop beat if you want (there are certainly plenty of tracks that do implement classical piano- listen to Cunninlynguists [lol they’re great] featuring Tonedeff’s 616 Rewind). You can use a sample of your piano to create a single-wave-cycle sampler instrument playable across the entire keyboard with a timbre unique to YOUR piano. You could make glitch remixes of classical pieces, or use classical orchestration to create sprawling ambient electronic soundscapes, or borrow arpeggios or melodic leitmotifs you particularly love, but have them programmed to play on custom sound designed synths & basses… And that’s all assuming you do want to integrate classical sounds in some way. There’s really no limit to the creative options.
Referring back to artists who combine far-flung, radically different styles in innovative ways, I recommend listening to GRiZ (a true masterclass in electronic production). He calls his genre “future funk,” but it was historically called electro-funk/electro-soul (he integrates both). He uses classic soul, hip-hop, & funk samples to amazing effect. He plays sax & his friend plays guitar live during their electronic sets, & they manage to integrate these live funk/jazz-associated instruments quite seamlessly simply by mixing & composing everything perfectly, really understanding the emotional language of their influences as well as the technical skills of production & instrumental music. GRiZ creates these incredibly complex, morphing, organic basses (similar to dubstep basses at times, but in a very tasteful, well-executed way which is a bit rare in the genre) which I know he uses MIDI automation for, but I’m still unable to replicate them because they’re so complex & unique & just incredible to listen to. He merges the danceability of uptempo electronic & funk with some really chill, vibey, Summer sounds that really capture the warmth & euphoria of an MDMA experience (like you could simultaneously melt into the fabric of a soft couch, or be flying around the room dancing effortlessly), while still managing to integrate some pretty touching, heavy soul/blues samples like the hook present throughout Hard Times, or his use of the wonderful Marvin Gaye sample on Where’s the Love, or other starkly analog sounds like the trumpet on the absolute bass banger Rock n Roll… I definitely recommend his first two studio albums: Mad Liberation & Rebel Era. Masterpieces, both. He’s made tons of amazing stuff since, but for me these two are just so flawless start to finish, capture such an aesthetic, & are a blissful journey throughout. Just moment after moment where I’m left feeling like “My GOD.” Never a dull moment- he just constantly surprises with what he pulls out next. I love these subgenres of electronic music which (whether through the use of human voices & other samples, or complex, organic sounds, or just progression & a less repetitive song structure than those in techno/house/DnB/whatever else, they manage to impart soul & humanity into their tracks & keep them interesting throughout rather than being purely four on the floor monotonous trancey dance music. And I mean GRiZ still keeps it extremely uptempo & dancey most of the time. But it’s also just very high quality music.
However I also love a lot of more downtempo stuff, stuff that fuses electronic & hip-hop, stuff that pushes the envelope on samplework & sound design in other ways… Thriftworks (Moon Juice, Terry’s Big Dab, & Monkey On My Back are good examples). Tipper (the whole recent album Marble Hunting is insanely good). DJ Abilities’ Phonograph Phoenix (another masterwork). All kinds of stuff by Essex & Yheti. SoDown is similar to GRiZ, extremely good funky electronic production but with more poppy vocal guests. Toadface & Kaminanda are ridiculously psychedelic & mind boggling. Oh, can’t forget: on the more hip-hop influences downtempo side of things, Daily Bread is godlike- and very much takes after artists like Gramatik (also a legend, & he actually had/has an ongoing collab project with GRiZ, Grizmatik)… I think all of this could be very helpful listening for expanding your conception of electronic music & searching out exactly the voice you want to aspire towards in the genre. I know they have been for me. Hope that’s helpful!
I currently am still going through classical music training, but ever since Ive been getting into synths I've had this problem, and this video has really helped realise what I've been stuck on and what I should be doing. Thanks so much for making the video
One thing I will do often is play a idea on the "piano" (I use an S90es). I will play 2 or 3 versions of the same thing with different chord voicings, then start to break out the parts across different sounds and octaves, removing individual notes, changing inversions, etc and build up the textures. (sometimes a single note will get removed from all parts and moved to a percussive or bright sound, or even removed altogether.
The synthesiser there literally looks like what you'd see in a cartoon or a futuristic movie. So many buttons, so little words XD
Man...it'd be fun for you to talk to QuantumAlt. Unfortunately at the moment he's just a troll in a Celeste comment section lol
His idea is that classical music made by people like Beethoven and Mozart is the best so far, since it's complex, follows music theory well and "is pleasing to listen to" (and the people just "knew what sounded good"), and all of contemporary music is just sharply declining in quality and stagnating
Anyway that was pretty useful to know I guess
Really really cool video. I was a rapper/beat maker from about age 13 to 26. During that time I did a few lessons/classes with a few instruments. I spent the last 8 years learning and playing keys/piano full time in neo-soul/r&b/jazz settings. Having been DEEPLY entrenched in the composition/theory aspect, but having my starting point in beats/loops/synths, I experienced some confusion and cognitive dissonance around how to even start composing/producing when I started again. This video spoke to me in that way. It's not classical, but's the same thing. Coming from jazz is very similar to classical in contrast to comparing jazz to electronic music.
For me as an orchestra performer for most of my life, the jump to synths was a pretty natural one (albeit hard to get familiar with). One of orchestration's many aspects is how can you add and subtract instruments and dynamics to get the sound timbre and texture you want.
Love the video and love the sounds you produce! Do you have a song containing the sounds you show us starting at 4:28 ? I especially loved those ❤
I rarely heard such clarity in explanation.
I must say that this video has convinced me to make a more in-depth effort to learn about and utilize ambient, evolving sounds in production. In the past I've always been hesitant to explore the ins and outs of producing evolving soundscapes because I assumed that they would lack depth and direction, essentially being a meandering sonic soundscape with no real point or reason. This video has given me reason to go ahead and give this style of sound design a go.
This video makes me feel a lot better about getting into synths. For a couple years now I’ve been drooling over the idea of building a modular rig or somehow getting rich enough to afford a moog modular something or other. But I am not a very good pianist. I can play a few pieces. I understand the fundamentals. But not being a pianist has kept me from taking the leap. I know you can run a modular rig without a keyboard. But i just always think of a synth as ultimately being controlled by a keyboard. But if I don’t actually need to be classically trained on a piano to be able to play synth well, I bet the rudimentary skills I have would be good enough. Maybe I’ll take the leap and turn my living room into a starship.
Thx for exploring these new rooms. Sound rooms, spaces, colors, tasts, odors. Wenn I was a kid in Vienna we had that guy that took a whole bunch of syntesisers at the Votivkirche, a new gothik cathedral, a huge sound space. And he played, well, classical music on moogs and oberheims. Beautiful! The early 80th were a great time to do so. Personally I love to see sound syntesis as an instrument on its own right. Cool to imitate and complete existing sounds, but it starts getting really interesting, when you do what you seem to do: Create music bearing in mind the possibilities of this instrument. So... thanks!