Think Buying a Classic Car is Hard? Try a 54 Yr Old Airplane!
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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WHO WE ARE
In 2015 we quit our lives in the city to buy bare land in the country and build a timber frame home from scratch with our bare hands, debt-free, with no prior experience. It’s been a wild ride of ups, downs, highs, lows, rain and rainbows, but we haven’t lost sight of our goals and have gotten further in three years than we thought we’d get in ten. Join us as we build our house, develop our rural property, practice traditional skills such as gardening and food preservation and go to even greater heights (literally) of exploring the world through aviation as a new private pilot!
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You guys are crazy. You really should concentrate on your house build and fly on that new pilot license for at minimum a year before taking a huge step into buying a plane. The more you fly the more you’ll find what is or isn’t what fits you. Yeah I know it’s exciting but very expensive and it’s so easy to be into it six months later and wish you waited
Good luck,
Matthew E
Former USAF
Go rotary wing.
I'm an old Air Force rotor head myself. Go Jolly Green Giant!
Did you guys hit the lottery? Holy smokes from building a debt free home, scavaging materials, to buying air planes.
I love your videos about building your house. I must admit though that I have a difficult time reconciling how you want to purchase a plane now before you even have siding on your house.
altecbevhills Very true, my friend
I happen to be an A&P/IA, DME, retired FAA inspector and aviation author on how to purchase an airplane without getting burned. I wrote a book that walks you through the process and what to look out for in your purchase. The book is called Handbook of Aeronautical Inspection and Pre-Purchase it has saved many of new owners from buying a basket case. Also, I do pre-buy record checks this is where you should start.
DO YOU KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE PLANES ARE ?? I really think you guys should finish the house first and then if you have any money left over, you can consider buying a plane ✈️.
Who would have thought making youtube videos would pay for a house and a plane.
I have been in the aviation field since 1975. Our family has owned an aircraft maintenance and modification business. I would gladly review any aircraft you may be considering for purchase at no cost to you. I have owned several airplanes myself. I have not made a bad purchase decision so far. Let me know if you want some assistance.
Buying a plane is probably more like buying a boat. The two happiest days are when you buy it and when you sell it.
Russ Raetzman I was sad when I had to part with my first plane, an old Mooney. Loved that plane!
Rule of the 3 F’s... It is cheaper to rent if it Flies, Floats, or F(fill in the blank)s
As a long time pilot and Cessna owner, i congratulate you on your new PPL. Love your channel. It would take so much time to drop you some knowledge on buying an aircraft. Please grab an aviation mentor and A&P to help you shop. Engine health is primarily your concern, many planes sit and dont fly much. Check logs for accuracy and make sure all MX has been legit. Most of the value of these legacy planes are found in the engine. Not paint or avionics or sentiment from the owner
Proud owner of both a 182 and a 195. Both are float planes. Aviation is more affordable when you own the property to land, take off from and store it.
Two tricks an old a&p who was a flight instructor taught me in a checkout flight. Slow flight in turns and max speed then nose over can show control issues and vibrations. Good luck on the search and smart to to do a prebuy inspection, money well spent! When you buy routinely do oil analysis it will spot problems before they become a major problem.
My dad had a Cessna 150. My parents went through the same thing for almost a year before they found the right plane. It was definitely worth it for them. After the many months of tearing down planes and checks, they finally found the perfect one. It took time and diligence but they were happier in the end. I'm glad to see you take the time to find the right one for you.
I went through the same thing last year. 80 to 100 hour pilot when I started looking at planes. Took me 6 months and two planes that failed their prebuy inspections, to find my 182M. Good luck and take your time. Looked over the logs of 10 or 12 planes. In total I crawled around 5 different planes and even took a day trip from Portland, OR to Corona, CA on one. In the end the plane I bought was local.
If you already haven't committed to it, get your instrument rating. That is the best thing you can do for your flying. I started on mine with my new plane. 8 months later I had the rating, and I bet I would have been weathered out as a VFR pilot a bunch of times without it.
Good luck!
I have been a private pilot for 18 years and have over 1,200 hours in single engine aircraft, I have owned a 1965 Cessna 182-H and a CGS Hawk Arrow II Ultra light (Now fits into Light Sport) and built a Vans RV-7A. My suggestion is to by a certified aircraft. The value of Home built aircraft do not hold their value like Certified Aircraft do. I flew a Cessna 182-H for nine years flying it all over the US and up to Alaska. When I sold it, I got every penny I put into it back as for the initial purchase and upgrades. Average yearly annual cost me roughly $500 where I would assist local A&P mechanic perform the inspection. My RV-7A was not so good, I had $105K into it and sold it for $94K with just over 600 hours TT. We made the decision to purchase as we like to travel cross country and local FBO's would not allow us to rent to take the cross country trips. Now with the cost of fuel and my wife working for American Airlines we choose to fly comercially. Not as fun but a heck of alot cheaper. Insurance for RV-7A completed and airworthy in 2007 cost me $2,500 for $90K in hull coverage. No accidents or claims ever as a pilot. We watch your RUclips channel often and love the area you picked to build.
I know that having an aeroplane is a dream, but just passing your PPL is the beginning, rent, and keep taking exams, IFR! If you really feel the need to have some ownership of a plane buy a share in one, here in the UK it is common for planes to be a syndicate but while you rent you can hire bush planes seaplanes before getting committed to one type.
There is an old saying. If it flies, floats, or f$@&s, rent it!
One of my favourite RUclips channels is turning more and more into a flying channel, another one of my favourite things! I love it!
Continue to follow the steps you are now taking. Choose wisely for future resale value. Do not spend too much on avionics too soon. My experience tells me that this will be a temporary airplane. Weather will interfere with too many plans. You will soon want an instrument rating and the ability to fly high and fast. A high performance airplane is in the future for a perfectionist such as yourself. Life is short, fly fast!
182 is certainly a nice family plane, but not very fast for the fuel burn. I had a Bellanca Viking, inexpensive plane, 40 knots faster than the 182 on similar fuel burn. My Mooney kicked the crap out of both of them on fuel burn and much nicer flying plane too. Anyway, take your time and get the plane that fits how you fly. If you don’t fly over 100 hours a year renting is probably better depending on hangar costs where you are and insurance, etc. Good luck.
I want a Ferrari....but fortunately I know the difference between "want" and "need", and the maturity to make the right call.
I got my Piper after my private pilot license and then did my instrument rating on it. During this time my CFII told me that there are only two happy moments in the life of an aircraft owner - the day he bought the plane, and the day he sold it. It was kinda.sorta true for me, but now, after a few years, I sometimes miss good old 08L.
A reasonable way to get in the air without renting is to buy into a plane that is a shared plane or possibly a club that owns planes. I flew to solo ticket then stopped. My dad continued and got his license. He bought into a 4 owner Beech Sundowner. Four great guys, 2 older that didn't fly much but wanted the status of owning a plane. You had to fill the gas when done. They charged themselves $25 an hour to fly which went towards the annual, insurance and hanger cost. etc etc
Alyssa - please tell me you're going to get your pilot's license as well. It seems to me, for safety's sake - if something happens to Jesse while flying your family around - that you would be able to take over the controls...
Looks to me like you didn't even come remotely close to buying a BAD AIROPLANE, but it's great click bait.
Airplanes maybe even more than cars (but like cars) come in two sorts of categories. Those that are tools and those which are icons. You will find a plane that was loved and very will cared for. Even if it cost a bit more up front, you will save more than the difference in the long run. Happy hunting.
Glad to see you spending the time and the money to do a proper check out on the aircraft. I have known quite a few people who thought they were getting a good plane only to discover that they paid a ton of money for something that needed massive amounts of work.
Ya just got your license. Don't buy a plane. You don't even know what you want yet. Don't buy a plane. Whatever you THINK you want today will change as you experience other planes and as you actually travel. DON'T buy a plane .... not yet. Rent, rent, rent. Drive to other fields to rent other planes. Experience as much and as many planes as you can and I PROMISE YOU, your tastes will change, and to the extent they do not, will only serve as reassurance that you're doing the right thing. Then consider buying a share into a nicer plane with like minded owners that agree by contact, to never rent or borrow the plane.
On second thought, ignore me. Youth is spent well on the young. Live your dream.
I have helped a number of people buy boats, and I always make the exact same suggestion. With less than a year in you have no idea what you want, how you will really use it, or what limitations will matter for you. You may not care about an extra 20kn, or being able to cruise at 190+ could be a deal breaker. Trying to cross mountains in a 160kn plane with a 100kn headwind sucks (One flight we spent 6 hours trying to leave North Carolina). Climb rate in the mountains could be a huge issue for you, or it may not be a real issue... But anything not IFR I wouldn't even look at where you guys are.
But I do miss our old Cherokee Six. That was a fun plane.
They should find a local Flight Club to join and gain hours. Then look into a plane a few years down the road. I started in a 152 for 3 weeks just didn't like the feel. Stepped up to a 172 to finish. Joined a flight club that has 2 182 rg turbos and a king air 300. Now rated in both aircraft types after 2 years and yearly dues are much cheaper than renting and I've never had an issue of getting a plane when I want.
Purchasing and selling an airplane is quite an experience. First, as a buyer, I trusted the fellas who were selling N5159A a 1979 Cessna T-210N. I overlooked items such as windscreen deice and the deice boots as I was not going to use them. Instead, I spent on state of the art avionics. Selling when I lost my medical, the buyer engaged his mechanic to ream the aircraft that my mechanic had already reamed on an on-going basis. The hiccup was the deice and the boots despite all working except the wind screen de-ice. Suggest looking at the T-182 or T-182RG if not a T-210. Flying vicariously.
Aircraft and or Boat, it's a hole that you will pour money into.
From this distance flying seems a lot less risky than roofing. Perhaps because the assumption is the opposite. Flying requires systematic training, supervision, practice. Roofing is something you work out by trial and error. If it doesn't work try something new. Can't recommend that for parachuting! I learn a lot from you guys. There is so much to think about. Thanks for sharing.
The only way ownership works is if you have a large bank account and a business and can write off the expenses. Join a club or look for shared ownership.
I can't stress enough how important it was that you attended the inspection.
A friend of mine bought a 210 sight unseen, had it inspected by the local mechanic at the FBO it was kept.
It passed with flying colors. (We suspect the owner might have been related to the mechanic...)
He bought it, took a commercial flight out, and ferried the aircraft back with his son to his home airport.
The mechanic there, looked at the plane and after opening just one inspection plate, saw that the corrosion was so bad, the wing roots were ready to fall off. It was a miracle they didn't die in the air.
It took about a year to resolve the issue, the law suit was ugly and expensive.
My husband is gone to aviation school as a mechanic and when he’s done doing a mechanic he’s going to take is flying lessons were so excited
In the 80s I work for Mission Beechcraft met and married my husband who was a ap mechanic. Nice color but if it's not sound good decision. Husband died in 03 left behind a great career with UPS, went from puddle jumper to the biggest jet that fly.
its probably a good thing to hold off on any purchase. Planes are not a good investment if they aren't making you money and you don't want to compromise when buying an old plane or you end up replacing everything.. just keep your eyes open for something good and when you can't pass it up you know you got the right one.
you've come a long way from building a shed with reclaimed timber, to buying a airplane. Thanks to you toube. What's next? Finally some forks for the backhoe LOL
my first red flag was the pretty paint job. my experience (None with planes), ...if it looks too good on the outside, look carefully at the insides.
You're doing the right thing having planes inspected by competent folks you trust. Flew club aircraft (65 members and 5 planes) for several years. Nice to have a bunch of others to share the "joy" of unexpected equipment failures and annuals that don't go well to say nothing of ADs.
I would seriously suggest you not buy a plane at this point. Finish the house, get more aviation under your belt. There are huge costs to insuring maintaining and housing aircraft. All your experience so far seems to be in high wing. get out there and do some low wing. Try some rolls in a Bonanza 35. Get some twin engine time. Try a Gyrocopter. I know the stairs are finished, I would like to see the video.
That is actually good advice (which is rare in the comments) A good point well made sir! :)
Definitely not a decision to be rushed. TBO is a big factor where I'm at.
I know nothing about air planes but the red one looks like it has more room in the back, for your family. Wonder how Bugaboo is going to like it.
As someone who worked on helicopters for the U.S. military. Aircraft are extremely expensive to maintain. I have seen aircraft screws that were $50.00 a piece. Just beware, you are gonna pay for that airplane over and over again in maintenance cost.
Paper the aircraft over and over again with maintenance. This is ridiculous. A single-engine private plane is not a $25,000,000 military helicopter
Why not build? You can get a brand new RV-10 that is comparable to a Cirrus Sr22 in performance for $100,000 or less. And you'll have more content when the house is done.
Andrew Bowden I think getting a commercial ticket at some point in the near future is the only justification Jesse has for owning a plane these days ...unless he’s got very deep pockets. Everyone I knew who had private tickets back in the 70’s let them lapse. Ownership costs, insurance, maintenance just grew out of the range of all but a few.
don"t rush! It"s a lot of money. Me and the Shepherdess looked at nearly 100 farms all over France before finding The One and it was half what we had planned to spend but it took a load of brush cutting though that didn"t matter as, while we did that, our small flock of pure bred sheep grew to fit the land.
Don't buy a plane yet. You are only just half way toward finishing the house. Enclosing a house, windows, roof, doors,, is just half way through the total. Now I will grant that you have a leg up on insulation. But that leg up is also going to make the electrical install, much slower than conventional,, and perhaps the plumbing and heating as well. Interior walls? Then,,,,, after the mechanicals are in and approved,,, then you get to finish your insulation,,,,, then the drywall,,, taping, plastering,,,, bath, floors, kitchen, paint,, fixtures,,,,,,, You are half way.
If it floats or if it flies, lease it.
I'm excited for your plane purchase . I believe you will have many happy memories . Enjoy and be safe.
I see you were calling the second plane you looked at an antique. I have a 1947 J-3 Piper Cub it's easy to repair ., cheap to fly, easy to fly
I hope you guys are out of debt before buying something as expensive as an airplane, unless you absolutely need it to earn a living.
There is no such thing as a bad aeroplane, just a bad price for it.
There is a saying in the UK that if you can find the makers plate for a Spitfire, you can rebuild a plane round that!
Don't neglect the EAA homebuilt route.
An idea for a new Vlog, "Pure living for Flight"!
My first was a 177 rg. Fast, stable, INEXPENSIVE. If you don't kneed the room or carrying capacity of the 182 it's a good trainer to get some hours.
Good job. It's easy to fall for a nice paintjob or panel. But don't let that make you make excuses for the plane itself! You will begin to be able to pick out the ones you SHOULD be looking at. Great video.
jesse, you live in ID you need a go anywhere plane. Make the drive down to Kitfox factory near Boise. This project would make a great fun 3-6 month vlog project. Keep it simple stupid. Just need to convert one of your garage bays into a man cave plane factory for a short while. Watch some of trent palmer vlogs to get pumped on these little 4x4's of the sky.
Dale Walker that would be a fun video series to watch!
I was fix'n to recommend the exact same thing, darn near word for word.
Go experimental, home build kit. It will give you more content for your channel after the house is finished.
House is never finished:)
RV-10
"we find plane that fits to our family" so F22 raptor? :D
You built your own home, why not build your own plane? 😉. I’m envious- You two are living my dream. 182 is a fantastic airframe. Took my first ever airplane ride in an old 182 back in the 70s. Always wished I could own one. Best of luck with it! You’ll find the right bird.
Nice looking paint job on the blue and white plane, Just like the backhoe. Paint covers a lot of faults...
With your penchant for research and your demonstrated skills in building your house, you really should look in to building your own plane. Start with the EAA. If you want something that suits your personal needs, there are a wide variety of options from "plans build" to kit form that once built can be maintained by you- the builder.
Been there done that, have the airplane to prove it! :) I wouldn't wish airplane purchasing on my worst enemy! It was a terrible experience. Now once you have the airplane, it's another story. I went through 6 months of what you're doing and have many crazy stories. Finally after all that time I did end up with a 1964 Piper Comanche 250. Love that thing. And yes, owning a plane is expensive, which is why I involved a co-owner. If you can make that happen, it helps dramatically.
quick tip: go around your local restaurants and ask them if they have a commercial chopper they are willing to sell...many restaurants have equipment they do not use anymore
Dude, I been watching you build the house and now I see you're a pilot too. You guys rock.
Haven’t finished watching but if you’re getting vibration.. it’s possible the rod bearings are done. Probably sat a while.
That tape on the prop is probably your vibration.
Why wouldn’t the mechanic re-spot-weld instead of drill out the crack?
A lot of people don’t know that metal moves after it’s been forged. Heck tin turns to crystals. You have to rework metal to make it stable. It’s a lot like wood.
I can’t believe you actually allow yourself to fly in crocs! 😂
The cheapest part of owning a plane is buying it. I joined a flying club instead. Choose carefully!
Not like buying a car. A car breaks while using it you pull over. With a plane there is no easy pull over.
Love the Plane ✈️ Coverage, but did you “Finish the Stairs”????? Today That’s Called MutiTasking, WOW!!!!!!
We own a Cessna 414 Twin it is fun but a lot of maintenance. Keep looking you will find the right plane.
Keep renting for a while , most older certified planes are money pits. Check out the experimental market
Buy or build an experimental. Non-certified parts equals newer stuff quicker and way cheaper. You an do your own upgrades and own maintenance except the annual unless you built the plane then you can do that too! Kitfox or RV-14A Look them up!
You need to build an Van's RV 10. I built an RV-7A And it's a lot of fun.
I'm glad you have instructors and Mechanics you can trust to help go over the planes. I take my best friend every time to look at cars and he's an ASE Mechanic.
Hi Guys always enjoy your videos. I'm a aviation NDT technician here in Australia. SID inspections on aging Cessna's can be very costly for the owner.
Has Alissa expressed any interest in learning to fly? She is such a trooper, I think she could nail it, and two pilots in a plane can only add to the sharing experience ;)
Get your A&P license North Idaho College's Aviation Maintenance program. That adds another skill set that you could use, to help generate additional income.
If you get a chance give a push to John McGinnis at Synergy Aircraft in Kalispel to get his little family aircraft in the air. I liked the interludes of domestic duties between the skullduggery of choosing an aircraft.
Dude you passed the perfect classic, that Piper Comanche 260 on the ramp. Great 4 place bird with good carrying capacity.
A Cessna 182 is a good performing airplane. BUT the Continental O-470 is the weak part. They almost never make it to the 1800 hr TBO. Usually at about 1200 hrs they need a top overhaul (cylinder and piston replacement). If your heart is set on a 182 the Cessna 182 RG is a better choice. It is faster with retractable gear and the Lycoming O-540 will go 2000 hrs to TBO almost every time. More money but you live in moutain country and the extra performance is a real safety item. I have 25 years and 2000 hrs as a CFI. You probably already know this but if you fly less than 300 hrs per year it is cheaper to rent.
I wouldn’t recommend a Cessna retractable. You’re better off going with a Piper, Mooney, Bonanza, etc. The Cessna setup is a mechanical shit show.
always read ALL log books. I had a 182 prospect and it had a tiny note on the 3rd page (log book) to refer to annotations in 337. The annotations were the plane was wrecked and rebuilt by insurance cuz they thought it was to expensive to total it. It litterally was rebuit in a hanger from the back seat back. When dickering with price tell them to knock off 40k for new/rebuilt engine. Cessna Dealerships do exist. btw the 337 was 50+ pages of parts actions.
Just finished PPL and already into buying a plane? Respect! Is this the all American way? Bit fast, isn't it? With CPL(A)/ IR with ATPL Theory & MCC credit and 740h in my book, I never thought of buying a own plane. I used the Aero Club planes! Insurance and maintenance costs are a big one! Maybe finish the house and collect some hours first!? Just saying!
What? your not going to build your own plane?????
I thought thats why you had a big garage....
ha
.
Be very,very careful in what you buy. We lost a good friend who was flying home with a new plane.The brand new plane lost a wing on the way home.Just be very careful in what you buy.Stay safe out there.
old skylanes are the best built ones. Those Factory workers were trained by WW2 mechanics in the 50/60/70s
Wow massive step to own an airplane be it an older one or not but then again this is the root your going to take for your employment it just seems so quick but then again when do you go for it pleased for you keep up the great videos thanks from England
BOAT = bring out another thousand.
I can't imagine owning a plane is cheaper or easier to maintain than a boat.
Might want to get moved into the house and get a nice shed/shop built before diving into plane ownership.
When home brewing we made a Ginger Ale. The recipe required 3 POUNDS of ginger. Walking through the checkout on a Saturday morning with two buggies full of ginger gets a lot of weird looks. :)
Don't buy...run away from it>>>
You mean your not going to build your own airplane?! Kidding. But only sort of.
My grandpa learned to fix airplanes during a war and did that for many years to come. He took flying lessons, but the rules back then were 10 hours minimum practice, then solo. His solo flight almost killed him, so he never flew again. But he built two homes!
My other Grandpa was a local handyman but his hobby was to build airplanes and test fly them. My uncle carried on the tradition and is currently building a mini jet!
I feel like I understand my grandparents lives more from watching you guys go through the work of building and exploring flying. It's awesome.
First thing "please pass the chips" and great call on the first plane. The wheel covers look great,but takes away from the total weight the plane can carry,my dads 150 did not have them on. The cardinal did and she was a looker...lol... Oh I miss those days at the airport,and in the air...
When your house is finished, build an experimental plane. That would be fun to watch!
Bathtub curve! How appropriate! :) Approximately 30% of the total cost of a new airplane is the purchase price. 70% is Operations and Maintenance. It is a higher percentage O&M for an older plane.
When my uncle got macular degeneration they took his license off him and he had to get rid of his plane he loved it CGQFO based at Boundary Bay BC.He had the money to maintain it perfectly.Keep looking for a good one
Interesting Comments on this one. Someone mentioned getting a IFR rated plane. I went through this same process a few years ago looking at planes (BTW Still Rent) and a very helpful FBO enlightened me on getting myself IFR rated and buying an equivalent plane. Due to the area we live in (not that far from your location) small IFR aircraft have very limited usefulness due to icing. Almost all spring, summer and early fall we have so many sunny days you just don't need IFR and then it turns cold, cloudy and wet/snowy. These small planes are not made to fly in ice conditions so in our particular locations it really just not not make a lot of sense. Now the other areas, it might.
As much as I want (key word WANT) to own a plane I just cant make the numbers make any sense on paper, so for the time being renting it is.
182's are a good starter plane especially if you want a plane that sits 4 people. Because you are flying from a small airport, be sure to consider where will you be keeping your plane? Are there hangers available? Or will you have to tie down outside? And how much will that cost? Some airports have 20-year waiting lists. You've probably considered annuals and regular maintenance, but what about repainting? And new instruments? You are right, aviation is a love affair with a very high maintenance mistress with expensive needs. ❤🌅🌵
I confess I'm surprised you aren't going the homebuilt route...think about it for when you're house is done. :-)
Glad you passed on the first one. My heart sank when I initially saw the bad rivets on the trailing edge. There also appeared to be some corrosion in the wings, based on the view through the inspection plate. Too much potential risk to let things develop further and definitely too much time and money to repair. The red and white one looked pretty nice. You mentioned avionics upgrades - with the ADSB mandate coming up soon, you'll be spending a fair amount to meet the needs anyway, so might as well get the panel set up like you want it.
Glad to see you are doing the pre-buy inspections. Do them to an "annual inspection" level, from a non-associated A&P. As you well know, the cost of an aircraft repair or AD can easily surpass the cost of an inspection.
With that STOL kit, something is definitely wrong with that extended takeoff roll.
Just start out with a Cessna 172 they were made in the thousands and can get parts pretty easy and they have several 100 modifications that can be done to change the way it flys
Butt cheeks were clenched @ 24:54 . "Saved it! I had a heart attack over here."