Cyberpunk 2077: Did V Meet the REAL Johnny Silverhand?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- The start of my Cyberpunk 2077 coverage. I'll be covering news, theories and lore, subscribe for more!
kalaelizabeth
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#cyberpunk2077 #cyberpunk #cdprojektred #cyberpunkedgerunners #johnnysilverhand
Well, while there is discrepancy in his memories and reality, the engram still has the core of Johnny's soul because of two cases: Both Rogue and Kerry immediately recognised Johnny for who he is when they saw him in V's body. Not for a second did they consider him a clever AI or an imposter. So yeah, I'd say V did meet the real Johnny Silverhand. The personality was genuine at the very least.
But that's just not it. If you ever watched the Fight Club then you would understand what's going on.
The engram is nothing but a copy of the original Johnny Silverhand personality. When Johnny originally died Spider Murphy copied Johnny to an engram first and then years later Arasaka recovered Johnny's body (which was very damaged by physical and radiation damage, hence why the johnny we see is nowhere near lore accurate). Hellman even straight up tells you that the johnny that V is seeing is nothing but an hallucination and that V is actually both himself and Johnny at the same time. Johnny himself even says that he's just a copy and that the real Silverhand got to be still out there when he's beating the Hell out of V in the apartment (which is V btw, just wrestling for control with his alter ego).
The pills that misty give V is for personality disorder, one to keep you sane (V) and the other for your alter ego (Johnny) but they're both are still V. Rogue and Kerry believes that Johnny is V because the engram do store a good bit of it victim's memories to which when V taps into his alter ego (johnny) he can do so with accuracy. The engram does nothing but copy the hosts mannerism and personality (nanites) and when placed in a body it establishes these core values to the new body as if that person had never died. The program is called soul killer but that's just it, a name, I highly doubt that any tech can touch a soul. The real johnny has been dead and gone, the engram is not the real Johnny.
@@truerebel5467 Cool interpretation bro, but there has been multiple instances when Johnny gives V information V could not have possibly known. The hidden dog tags in Pacifica for example. Construct or not, the soul of Johnny Silverhand is in there with V, like a 86% completed Ship of Theseus
Johnny in the game seems like Morgan Blackhand with Johnny's personality
I do not remember the part in the cyberpunk lore book where Morgan black hand get on stage with kerry
@@redscarfinfinite9743 fair maybe a combo of both
Johnny's view of what has happened at Arasaka is blighted by glitches due to the term and the way he was incarnated at Michoshi. It probably felt like pulling the cable from the PC while it was running a program or a game and not all of your progress had been saved properly and/or some data had been lost or replaced by another. Johnny view of himself was always of a Rocker boy, Mr. Chaos and Lord of Anarchy, but in reality, he was just semi talented and pissed of war veteran who had seen enough to get him to break bad. All the bad stuff in Arasaka, was pretty much done by a real Merc- Blackhand. Rogue is the only one that was there but she is not even actively asking the wright questions to V or Johnny about what has happened there. We only see the glitched retrospective of Johnny's.
You clearly don’t know anything about blackhand
I was just thinking the same thing. I've heard a lot saying how it's Morgan's story, and Johnny basically hijacked it.
Smasher straight up is like "who?" When you say this is for johnny silverhand.
Huh? He remembers Silverhand during some dialogue. I think he calls Johnny a p***y.
Exactly......when I played it was like....huh.....something is wrong
the problem is Smasher also literally went out of his way to get Johny's gun to give to a subordinate and store the dudes car on his hideout. Smasher knows exactly who johny is.
He knows. If you go to the tower as V and without Rogue, he asks where she is. Why would he ask V that? He knows Silverhand is in there and taunts him. Acting like he doesn’t know Johnny would infuriate JS. For a guy who gets off on inflicting pain, it’s Smasher’s final fuck you to Johnny.
Omg. The lore to this game is insane. I'm so glad you got into Cyberpunk!
me too!
Part of me thinks that Blackhand and Silverhand merged together because a lot of his memories are what happened to Blackhand and we don’t know what happened to him as he’s not visible in the past memory at all. Then again it could just be a fault in the relic and it’s just what Johnny believes or has forgotten what truly happened. Jackie’s engram repeats the same lines when V meets them so could just be the relic records what the host believe they did. Anyway, cool video and it’s definitely an interesting thing to look at!
Johnny purposely leaves Blackhand out because he wants to be the mastermind of the Arasaka nuke and also hates that it was funded by Militech. Dude became a legend by being the idiot fall guy.
@@AtomicTreeDude he doesn't "want" things. He is an engram. He is programmed to behave a certain way.
I think that this could definitely be possible, I think I lean more towards Blachand being excluded on purpose
This is my most likely assumption as well. The way the jump cuts play out in the flashback it could be hopping between blackhand and his own memories, but all through the lens as it was just Johnny. I think this merger could have been intentional, or not, either way I think that the inconsistencies could be attributed to the corruption/device completeness issues.
@@graablick9471 He’s a copy. That’s not exactly being programmed a certain way. The lore is pretty clear that the copy is far from perfect, but we don’t know the implications of that imperfection. He still has a personality and the ability to lie though.
I hope we get more cyberpunk videos, I just wish people got over the “bad taste” 2020 left. The lore and background this IP has is mind boggling.
Morgan Blackhand is a huge character and his status is still unknown to this day (dead or alive) but Mike Pondsmith don't let CDPR touch him for a reason. Great video Kala you doing great
I'm glad you approve haha means I did my research correctly. And I feel like they could definitely be visiting his character in the future and I hope they do
Just feels like Morgan got turned into a borg like smasher was but probably by millitech
According to the lore, it was Spider Murphy who used soulkiller on Johnny right after Adam Smasher ripped him in half with a shotgun blast.
It's likely his memory was altered because soulkiller isn't supposed to be used on a dead person. Add that to the fact Johnny wasn't a sane person to begin with, and what was left of his mind got stuck inside the biochip for 54 years, chances are the Johnny we met is a far cry from what the real one was.
It's also unclear as to how the biochip got into Arasaka's hands, or if they did any kind of experiment on it, which they likely did, trying to find proof of Militech's presence in the 2023 attack. When they found it, chances are the memories were already altered by the time, damage or an external source.
But of course, It's just a theory.
I think you're definitely on the mark and I completely agree. The Johnny on the chip probably has a lot in common with the real Johnny, but I doubt we'll ever know just how close/far off he is. My two cents, we met the Johnny that Johnny thought he was, or who he *wished* he was. Memory tampering by the relic or soulkiller or Arasaka is definitely at play given the inaccuracies.
The biochip was created by Arasaka in 2077. Do you mean the copy of the engram?
I agree Johnny's memories are probably a mess from an imperfect soulkiller capture. But I think there's more.
Look at how content-free Johnny's memories of the attack actually are. Blackhand? Completely absent. Militech's involvement? Completely absent. No backer except Johnny himself. Major players missing. Major details missing. It reworks history neatly to make the whole thing a solo terrorist op mounted by an egotistical rockerboy over the death of his girlfriend, rather than a professional op backed by Militech and involving some of the biggest players in the Cyberpunk world at the time.
My guess is Spider or someone else worked on that engram. Cleaned it up, stitched memory fragments together so they made some kind of sense. And sanitized the whole thing with Arasaka, making Johnny the center of it all in a way his ego would accept and adopt to ensure Arasaka would never get anything useful out of him about what really happened.
There's enough there that his personality is authentic, many of his memories ARE genuine. But it's hard to tell how much, what has been blurred, what has been stitched together, and what has been fabricated.
@@IsilmeTuruphant I was smiling and nodding the whole time I was reading this. No doubt Johnny's memories were tailored, but by whom and what narrative does it serve? I believe the retelling of certain events were framed in a way that highlights and points to key elements of the soulkiller program and the save your soul immortality project that would lead an investigative team down a road to uncovering and/or destroying it.
We already know that Yorinobu planned on selling the relic to NetWatch. And given our limited interactions with them in-game, they are scumbags but tend to do what they say. I think Yorinobu started realizing that his body would eventually belong to Suburo as a means to extend his life and continue to stay in power at Arasaka without the knowledge of anyone in or outside of a boardroom and wanted to stop it without direct involvement.
I think Johnny's engram was perfectly re-engineered to simplify his terrorist activities and the people involved just enough to verify the chip's authenticity (think digital redaction) while also preserving a hatred for soulkiller and Mikoshi and the black ops level involvement in which it is deployed against Arasaka's enemies. I think Yorinobu was using Johnny as a means of testifying against Arasaka so the program would come under public/legal scrutiny and be forced to close, as an attempt to safeguard his own body and inheritance/legacy.
Johnny is actually Keanu Reeves
Keanu reeves is really reanu keeves
No way!
If immortality means killing my human self and passing a clone of my mind to another body, then I don't want it.
If the soul exists, this wouldn't be immortality, because your soul would go somewhere else upon death. If there's no soul, it's still not immortality, but neither "you " ( who would be dead), or your copy would know the difference, if the copy was close enough to the original.
Memories literally change every time you recall them. Are you the real you?
A big reason why engram Johnny's memories are so innacurate is partly because odds are the engram was damaged and real life Johnny was a egotiatical jerk.
It wouldn't surprise me if Johnny remembered events differently and made it all about him. Couple that with data corruption and the damage of inserting the engram into V may have disroted things further.
I doubt the memories were altered by Arasaka because he isn't nearly important enough to be messed with. They dont care about Johnny other than he is a link to Alt.
In terms of whether or not he is Johnny, regardless of how intact his memories are, comes down to the question of is an engram actually the person or just a sophisitcated illusion.
Is it really immortality or just an ai imitating the personality?
Who can say?
its the tampering that gets me too, " what's the point " of them doing that in the first place, I think what your asking is closer to the whole concept of afterlife, are we just data or something beyond this level of existence, if we consider the source material and the limits of it, how reality functions within Cyberpunk, then we can say it is Johnny but with dissociative disorder (formaly multi-personality disorder) accept now its hard coded memory, instead of the case of dissociative in which therapy is able to unlock and merge the main memories of the individual person together and consolidating them together to someone without "multi-personalities"
I point out the limitations of the source material because in Star Wars the in world mechanics allows for sound in space
when in reality, there is no sound in space
Actually the real johnny according to lore wasn't as bad as we see him as V's alter ego. The nanites and engram may have been programmed to make him look like a narcist, afterall, this is Arasaka that we're talking about and are known to be very cruel to their enemies. I did read somewhere that they reprogrammed to engram to make Johnny appear as a terrorist to avoid war with Militech.
Super hyped you’re covering cyberpunk lore and mysteries now looking forward to these next uploads
Me too man. Great video. The entire story scrambles my synopsis 😂 but in the best way.
This was a great in depth look, and honestly you touched on some ideas I had about a fanfic for cyberpunk lol.
Side Suggestion; I would’ve also included the two monk brothers and the discussion you can have with them in the cherry blossom market, after the side quest where you rescue a brother from malstrom. Really interesting discussion on the soul, and theres even a little tid-bit where V can then ask Johnny for his opinion, whether he is a copy or the real Johnny Silverhand. He replies with "Well, if the real Johnny Silverhand is dead, then that's his problem, not mine."
I didn't run into them in my game so I completely forgot but I am doing my 2nd playthrough right now and I'll definitely remember that!
@@kalaelizabeth they’re just above the cherry market… close to where you leave Judy after the Clouds take over quest. There’s different dialogue depending on whether you incapacitate malstrom vs kill them too.
Get Keanu to tell you what he thinks about it all, if he can.
there's quite a few tags out in NC "Where's Johnny?".... they are peppered out in the world.
There sadly *is* a concrete answer to if this is the real Johnny, it isn't. "I did not grant the program it's name, but Soulkiller does precisely what its name promises", said by Alt(the Rogue AI who consumed her engram, not the original Cunningham).We see this front and center with Saburo at the end of the Devil ending, the engram was made with a different version of Soulkiller that *only* copies a psyche and doesn't kill it. The Saburo we see biff it at Konpeki is still very much dead and wherever we go when we part from this world. The Saburo we see is Saburo 2.0, a new person with all the same thoughts, feelings and behaviors(well, 80ish percent of them based on Hellman's design documents). Johnny died in the '23 raid of Saka tower to Smasher and had his flawed engram made by Spider Murphy. Even if Johnny's original body was injected with Johnny 2.0's engram, it would just be the engram taking over the body, the original is still dead. As is the case for V when they're made a construct, because it isn't V, it's V2.0, a new person who was made from the jumbled mess of whatever was left of the original V's necrotized brain tissue and what was altered by Johnny. It's why Alt wasn't able to prevent the body from collapsing on itself if the new V engram takes the body. If we take the metamorphosis bar in the menu literally, only 30% of V still remains by the time they enter Mikoshi in most endings, is a 20ish percent(given afford mentioned Hellman documents that the engram isn't perfect at recreating personalities) still the same person as the one who got dumped in a landfill after taking 2 doses of lead in the brain?
The Sad issue with Blackhand is Mike P said No you can't use my Character in Cyberpunk 2077 since that is who Blackhand is, Mike P putting himself in Cyberpunk. Yes We are hoping Some day in Some Cyberpunk Video Game Blackhand does show up. But That is Totally up to Mike P and yes Mike P was in Cyberpunk 2077 just Blackhand was left out.
This youtuber is asking the real questions. This engram and soulkiller stuff, made this story extremely complicated and creates lots of theories. If this theories are correct then probably we can have a real Johnny and a real Alt somewhere. Thou idk what can be said of V 😞
First: Johnny is unreliable, yet he's the one who tells us they can reprogram engrams. Hanako herself says they cannot. Unless the source books say otherwise, I'd believe hanako. Second: memory is subjective. Alt says it and you also live it, over time your own memories will clash with others who remember being there. A point you could have touched on.
Second: Mike says in those threads that the RADIATION from the bomb as well as soulkiller, is what scrambles him. They ask pointed questions about the bomb before saburo comes out, and if you watch, their are "relic malfunction" sounds and effects through the memories where you start deviating from the source books. SPECIFICALLY when johnny beats on Thompson it happens 3 times as an indicator of "this didn't happen"
my conclusion is that alt actually tells you the truth and EXACTLY what happened. Arasaka didn't do anything to him. He's been locked away, unaware but CONSCIOUS, building his own history and memory like a daydream or fantasy. And after 50 years of telling himself those lies. He believes them just like Gollum in lord of the rings does. The radiation bit mike mentions I honestly believe is more of a maguffin to explain for people who want a PHYSICAL reason for it, not just a mental one.
i could imagine that johnny's memories are missing significant chunks. whether that is because of standard degradation or tampering, who knows.
but when it comes to the new memories that contradict previous canon, i can't imagine them just being complete fakes.
mostly for the meta reason that i find it hard to believe that they would hire a very expensive actor in what is undoubtedly the most popular addition to the franchise only to then go and say "guess what, none of that was real!"
my personal theory is that everything we see actually happened but since the flashbacks are so short and have lot of cuts in them we can't use them as evidence.
Take that in - 'Saka with Soulkiller to do with as it pleases. Grim, my man.
Maybe the mind of Johnny was so demaged during recording engram due to the state of his death body, that the gaps need to be fill with the mind of Blackhand
My theory is that Silverhand and Blackhand both died. Blackhand's brain was too damaged for Arasaka to pull a full engram. They only got bits and pieces, and to study and make sense of them, they had to graft those bits and pieces onto a compatible engram. The most compatible engram was Johnny's, birds of a feather those two. Johnny doesn't remember Blackhand because that is like trying to remember yourself. All this to say that I think Arasaka merged the minds of the two most determined terrorists on the planet, inadvertently created their own archnemesis, and let it escape in the body of the merc who took down Adam Smasher.
Blackhand is alive.
This is one of the best games I’ve ever played. A huge part in due to the fact the story is well written. CPDR is one of the best gaming companies imo. Yeah yeah the launch was trash I get it but I can’t think of many games that have this kind of writing in em
Here's a wild crack theory for you...
V and Johnny WILL return. But... not the ones from any of the endings.
See, regardless of what ending you choose, Alt snags a backup of their TRUE engram. By the time of the ending, V's own engram has been degraded and overwritten by Johnny. In most endings, THIS is why V only has a few months to live; The engram is basically unravelling. It's not a medical issue, but an issue of software. Johnny's engram is much more complete and able to function on its own, so that's why he can take V's body and survive.
But if you're going to something delicate like picking two minds apart, you're not going to work on the original! So Alt would have stashed that original merged engram, and worked on a backup. Then Backup V or Backup Johnny goes into V's body.
Alternatively, Arasaka pulls the relic out of V, removing Johnny and basically dooming V to death for the same reasons of incompleteness. Or the Blackwall AI is used, which instead reweaves V using Johnny, repairing the engram damage but changing it to such a degree that V's own implants won't work for them anymore.
But regardless of the ending, Alt has an opportunity to grab a copy and does so. And the version she opts to keep is ALWAYS V/Johnny, because at that point they are filling in each other's gaps and is probably the most complete engram, if not the most authentic version of Johnny.
According to "Alt" she needs Soulkiller to put V or Johnny into Vs bosy, she cant do it by herself as she can leave deep cyberspace because the moment she crosses the BlackWall NetWatch will get her in the spot. Also i dont think Alt would tryed to bring Silverhand back to his body as the Alt we meet is no longer human or resembles any humanity at all. For her we are an experiment and her goal is to destroy Mikoshi and Soulkiller by extention.
At the end of the day we dont know Alts true intentions, but we can say with some security that she no longer cares for Johnny. Being trap in Cyberspace and with other rogue AI has change her forever. So the last of Johnny Silverhand is really in the Relic biochip whenever hes being truthful or not.
V met _Johnny Silverhand_ according to a slightly more delusional than usual Robert John Linder. I mean the Johnny you talk to is Johnny, but all the memories are to be taken with a wagon load of salt; they are "based on real events" at best and absolutely no documentary. Man was never *the Man* he was always that other guy, that local rockerboy *the Kerry Eurodyne* played with before making it big, that guy *the Alt Cunningham* had a fling with, that guy who tagged along with *the Morgan Blackhand* storming Arasaka Tower and caught a bullet 15 seconds in.
Asking if he's the "real" Silverhand is asking the wrong question. Even in real life, memories are extremely unreliable. Plus, for example: You are not the same person you were 10 years ago. Are you still the "real" Kala? A different version?
The version of Johnny we meet is just as real, just a variant, a different and more altered version of Johnny, but no less real. The version that Angel-Alt puts into the recovered body, also a real Johnny, but also not the same as the original: Being soul-killed and then downloaded into another body would absolutely change a person no matter who is doing it.
There can be two "real" versions of a person running around. Identity is not singular and indivisible.
Lots of questions being asked. Several things being taken too literally which takes them out of context, but I'll focus on the most important one. *Why* Johnny's engram is the "real" Johnny. Main note, Kerry, and Rogue's experiences with him through the game alone confirms it. The relic, and the engram are two separate things so you can't speak of them as if they are the same. The status of the relic doesn't translate to how much of the engram is intact. 100% of the engram is always intact on the malfunctioning prototype relic made by Hellman. Alt states that his memory has been replaying over and over. We know that Johnny has been sleep within Mikoshi for 50ish years. His memories being altered could be Sakas doing or from the relic malfunctioning. Regardless. Who Johnny is as a real person remains intact. That's the magic of the world of cyberpunk, is that engrams represent pure copies of a person to achieve immortality which is why Saburo has an engram of himself created. He wouldn't have done so if altered memories is a consistent side effect of becoming an engram. In one of the lore shards about engrams, it does state that you lose your life to become one, so in universe canon it's a way of true immortality. Which we have to separate from how it would work in our world were something similar to happen, it would just be a copy. The game/story shows it as immortality for a reason, and it's part of the fiction we all must accept.
Yorinobu suggests that he wanted to "become bomb" to destroy Arasaka from within:
Did he already alter the engram with the intention of inserting a personality hellbent with an unquenchable hatred for his father? Was he really just going to sell it? Just stealing it to make dad mad? If he only wanted Arasaka torn down, then why resist V at all when they come to do so?
PL suggests that there are AIs beyond the blackwall that have already created entire digital realities/universes:
Are we already playing in a digital reality in 77? Is the information scattered and unreliable because it is based off an AIs best guess or interpretation of data? Is the blackwall just a scary story to keep us digital sims from peeking behind the curtain?
We must remember that history is created by those who win now what agenda is better make an already known hacker Morgan black hand an even bigger almost unreachable legend or have various legends of big status that might inspire different people in order for the masses to rise against corpos now referring to Mr. Pondsmith, yes he is the creator and he exists in cyberpunk 2077 there's a photo of him in the game, what makes us so sure that he is really telling the truth as a creator (or reteller) of the story that arosaka wants us to know, whatever he tells us is cannon but he is just another gear in the arosaka retelling of history he says johnny is an unreliable narrator because that's the best plan of action for arosaka. Get this
a messed up human filled with guilt that somehow manages to accomplish big things and gets the worst treatment (Johnny's life) who would want to be that person NOBODY
Welcome to the jungle. Very well thought out synopsis. I often wonder if the Johnny we meet is a plant; his memories/personality warped just enough to be dead set on destroying Mikoshi if he ever found his way back to a body. The reason behind this is because of what happens to Yorinobu if you side with Hanako; Suburo uses a relic to reinsert himself as the head of Arasaka from within his son's body. Maybe Yourinobu was aware of his eventual fate to simply be a body for his father to take and remain in power, but had no way to stop it himself? What if he could klep a piece of tech and bring someone back to life just crazy and capable enough to destroy Arasaka's immortality program? Yourinobu was supposedly planning to sell it to NetWatch, so even if Johnny himself wasn't going to be the one to destroy Mikoshi, he would have plenty of coded info to feed the NetWatch agents who surely wouldn't let Arasaka slide.
This is the first explanation of the supposed continuity problems caused by Maximum Mike being in love with his metaplot from 1986-1997 that I actually like.
good theory!
In my opinion the whole idea of soulkiller proves the fact that the engram of any pearson is not in fact that pearson, but just a copy of his mind, so Johnny Silverland died in 2023 and any digitized version of him is just a Artificial Inteligence type of creation, so its imortality but not really. The real Johnny died and a mirrored, shallow copy of himself exists
I’m not sure if I caught it right, but did you say Spider Murphy uploaded Johnny? Cuz then the absence of Blackhand would make sense as a way to hide the person Arasaka would want to get at most. And then it would also make sense for Arasaka to keep the engram because even a borked engram might have clues to lead them to Blackhand.
(Sorry. My brain’s fried and I can’t tell if I even got that right.)
Yep Murphy is the one who put the soulkiller in him as he was dying!
I'm surprised Jackie wasn't referenced. How they could have use Soul Killer on him after his death, depending on your choices, same thing could've happened with him but having it so long could've given them time to edit the memories.
There is a soulkiller of Jackie that you can talk to. It's really sad
Such a cool video !! Never knew things went so deep, and looking at stuff in game like Johnny's grave not being marked makes so much more sense now
11:05 not sure if someone else has said it, but Los Alamos is where the creation of the atomic bomb took place IRL
Ooo didn't know that!
This has completely blown my mind. I didn't know about these cannon side stories where alt may still be alive and definitely has Johnny's body. I'm genuinely blown away and I'm looking at the game completely differently now.
It blew my mind too! And made me look at Johnny and everything differently. It's fascinating and I'm so glad your mind was blown haha
To be perfectly honest the whole entire disappearance of black hand and Johnny having memories of black hand and Johnny seems almost as if Johnny and black hand were both instituted to each other in the same device. It's possible if that is the case since Johnny Ingram was installed after he was already dead we don't know anything about black hands whereabouts. My conclusion is that Johnny that we know now is both Johnny and blackhand. They could have been merged over the time inside
from what I understand in the original plans for 2077 there were supposed to be multiple narrators. Johnny AND Morgan and they scrapped it...or did they? This could very well be both Johnny AND Morgan's recollection of things combined either because of cut content or because they got Morgan's engram and alt was trying to use that to create Johnny which is why we get his personality but Morgan's memories except for the events that Johnny remembers that always some how involve Alt but not other memories like his time in the war, etc.
First question I had was, why did Saburo make an engram of silverhand on an extremely valuable tech. Won’t he do this to Blackhand instead. That poses the possibility of Arasaka merging the Blackhand engram (maybe something went wrong or missing from Blackhand when transferring) with jonnies do get a so to say working engram? That would explain the memory of both as silverhands memories.
Second thing is you can notice how V changes and silverjand changes over the game with more time passing. So even these two are altering one another. It might even be to a point that V alters Silverhands memory by filling the missing parts (the engram is damaged and not 100% intact like mentioned by jacky) with things she might have learned at a point. These might strongly deviate from real events since these are decades old and V is not really a historian.
I mean, there is also the simple fact that '77 Johnny looks nothing like what he was depicted to look like before. Which, sure, celeb actor and all, but, seeing all the other incongruous things, it might be more intentional - plus, it is a funny happenstance that V is the only person that actually "sees" Johnny.
As for "are they still the same person"... the answer is no. Even AI!Alt says so about herself and of Engram!Johnny... and, thing is, 77 is not the first medium to tackle the question of "is a copy of a person still that person?" - the answer is a pretty simple "nope". They are both people, but, the vastly diverging experiences post-copy make them into different individuals quickly. Like building two things using the same blueprint - they look alike, might even do the same things, but they are still separate entities... add to that the apparently imperfect process, and you definitely have different, if quite similar in some regards, people - even moreso seeing as not even the memories of Real!Johnny and Engram!Johnny are identical.
In case of Johnny there is also a detail which I only noticed recently myself (because I'm right handed, thus payed it no mind): In the memories you live through, Johnny is using his organic hand to shoot the Malorian... real Johnny was left-handed and did, in fact, not use his ganic hand to handle the Malorian - the kickback would have been way too much... it was literally designed for him with his cybernetic arm in mind.
Actually, even more interesting little detail: he uses his right hand in the memories at the points *we* are in control - whenever we see him hold it outside of those moments, he is actually using his cybernetic hand. Which... well, there are two explanations to this... one is CDPR not caring to make extra left-handed animations, or this being a deliberate subtle change for story reasons... the latter is more interesting, so, I go with that.
And yes, this is also rather different from the fact that he plays the guitar right handed... many otherwise left handed guitar players play like right handed people, usually because there are fewer left handed guitars available, and those that are tend to be more expensive than otherwise equal right handed models. Why? Because fuck left handed peeps, I guess. (that last part is sarcasm, just to make that clear. I think left handed stuff should be the same price as right handed stuff)
The Alt we see in game isn’t the same Alt, she’s a fraction of her mixed with rogue AI from the black wall, when they’re turned into these engrams it’s just data, this data can be copied and altered more importantly stored and then transferred. The Johnny Silverhand we meet is real as in saying the source was the original Silverhand but that isn’t to specify he is the only one, Saburo Arasaka wasn’t concerned about the personality construct being Silverhand, he didn’t know or even care as that was not what he wanted but the technology that Silverhand was copied to. In Orion we will see Alt and Johnny return and they will be tied into the Mr. Blue Eyes character and the obsession of netrunners that probe the black wall with going to the moon, Alt and Johnny having basically become rogue AI’s will be facilitating their jailbreak and the ability to essentially become human, philosophizing the difference between extremely advanced AI and copies of actual human “souls” or personalities, Morgan Blackhand will also be brought into this story but will be swinging for a different team caused by memory alteration, replacing Adam Smasher as the final boss with more depth and possibility for player choice. Or atleast that’s the narrative I would follow if I was a triple A writer.
I’m the only one of my friends that are into this franchise. I thought I was a geek for the lore but this added so much more and filled in some gaps and questions!! Def gonna go read the other media. Thank you for this!
No, that's Keanu Reeves.
Because of the mention that Murphy got to him after his death, I theorize that Murphy tampered with his memories in order to throw Arasaka off if they were able to make an engram with Johnny's body thinking him unreliable because their recollection of events is different than his. So they discard of his body or just don't take it, allowing it to be recovered by a fan of his, and when we break in and steal the engram we are just stealing old corrupted data that they tortured and tried to decipher to gain any clues to Blackhand or other mercs whereabouts after the attack so that they could retaliate, but all they found was junk data in the head of a unreliable rockerboy, much the same way the must have tried with Jackie's engram. Maybe if Alt has Johnny she is still holding onto his engram or has been with him in a new physical body trying to get him to see reason, not fight Arasaka, and potentially rectify other wrongs in their world, since after all the engram in our head at some point thinks that fighting Araska may be futile, perhaps that was what Alt used against Johnny to make him believe in fighting for another cause, to see the world like she does.
I remember seeing or reading somewhere that the author of Cyberpunk didn't want Blackhand to appear in the game for some reason, so they had to work around that in the game. Can't find the source for that now.
Fairly new to the Cyberpunk world myself, so it’s incredibly mind warping to find out everything the creators did for the game to really give a new perspective on what happened compared to the canon lore. Thank you for putting this together and leading on this journey of discovery.
I have had a feeling that Morgan will actively play a role in the Second Game whenever it does eventually release. Johnnys memories always felt too black and white for me. Just knowin it was his mind painting him as the hero. Really makes those down to earth conversations hit hard near the end of the main game.
I mean imagine not beinf able to really trust your own memories, but those visuals are just so engrained.
Spoilers for next cyberpunk Mike pondsmith is going to be the Morgan blackhand
This is small, Kerry said Johnny accused him of leaving Samurai for money. But, in Johnny's memory Samurai had not broken up and Kerry watched him forlornly as he got on the helicopter. How was Johnny's ingram so complete if he was soul killed after death? Jackie was barely there. If Spider Murphy soul killed Johnny, how did Arasaka get the ingram? Where does the interrogation scene with Saburo come from since Johnny was already dead? Did Arasaka improvise most of the Johnny ingram? Why would they want him in the first place? I have so many questions. I guess that's why Cyberpunk is such a good game.
If I understand things correctly, even if our Johnny was 100% complete with no degradation, it would never be the real Johnny. A lot like AI of today, it's only a simulation of the real person, making (highly complex) guesses at what the real Johnny would do or say. That's all it can do, make guesses with the information given to it. They don't call it SOULkiller for nothing
Technically you as the player become the simulation for V in the endings ('cept the FIA one), guessing what she would say since you're not the real V anymore.
Like other comments said Johnny didn't remove Morgan Blackhand from his memory, they were not allowed to use Morgan in the game at all. So with no Morgan Blackhand, Johnny Silverhand becomes #1 terrorist
Anyone knows ost name in the background? I remember I saved it somewhere but can't remember where tho
I mean ya. He’s the only Johnny Silver Hand that exists. The real one died. Lmao.
But seriously rouge and Kerry believe the engram to be Johnny even if his memory a bit fuzzy. To me that says he’s a johnny as johnny can be considering.
I guess if nothing else, Arasaka wanted a Johnny Silverhand engram to try and get Alt back. Everything else, including altered or erroneous memories are a part of the plan. Even putting his engram inside a merc body.
11:18 and THIS sounds like what Cerberus did to Shepard. And there's another video I saw that says Shepard was possibly from an alternate dimension.
We don't know what happened with Morgan. I always wondered if Johnny was like placed over the Ingram of Morgan.
My 1st thoughts playing the game Johnny’s a narcissistic childish loser who wanted to be a legend. In his mind he’d be the rebel hero the perfect scapegoat with no tweaking required to hide the truth behind his delusions. A new age lee Harvey Oswald
Love this video, Really nicely done Kala! It gives so much more to Johnny's whole character and background. So much lore I didn't even know about. Just started a new CP playthrough this morning after a long time away (My playthroughs after launch were riddled with bugs & crashes & I gave up), So far, no issues and really enjoying it. I hope to join you in your ever-growing obsession with this game soon. 😂
thank you! I hope you enjoy it! I am enjoying my 2nd playthrough more than the first
Nice vid. you've gained a subscriber. I look forward to your analysis in the future.
if Smasher had killed Johnny, he couldnt have become an engramm.. since u need to be scorched by soulkiller to make that happen
This solidifies my constant hate and distrust of Johnny as I had suspected he was a cyber psycho, wish he’d actually stop whining in Vs ear
I think the game does a good job at nudging the player to think about whether Johnny is telling the truth or just "his truth" considering when his personality construct was taken he was already going through cyberpsychosis, which would significantly affect reality perception confusing what he knows with what he wanted to happen. Then you have damage to the biochip which could be direct damage to what makes Johnny Johnny Silverhand ON TOP OF wrestling with memories from V having to distinguish between his memeoris and past from V's memories and past.
It's so much better on a second playthrough because yeah the game is kind of telling you uh he's maybe not correct but I didn't realize on my first playthrough lol
I think if the engram captures 1s memory and shit alot of the stuff is just Johnnys ego and mental state really thinking he was the main character, for the heist.
Maybe you are actually Morgan and arasaka used soul killer to swap the two memories of silverhand and morgan
okay the only question is how i believe rogue backs up johnnys memories and acts as though he’s the same person
2:14 This sounds like the Stacks from Altered Carbon.
I always believed it was a just a copy of his mind, the real Johnny is dead.
You have a pleasant voice. I like listening to you.
In the end it doesn't matter as the game is an adaption of the tabletop version and adaptations always change the lore.
it doesnt make sense as to why Arasaka would take the time to fuck with him in a way that makes himself remember as someone more important
This was so good,thanks !
Keep making these
I plan on it! 🫡
I would love to see a V meet a real jhony in a new cyberpunk game
Man I can't wait for the second game to explain all this.
this is really the theme of the game.. not knowing if hes real or not
Some things that still don't make sense, how did Grayson, Smashers lackie, get his gun and his car ? If Samantha had them
And why didn't Rogue refute it when you say Jhonny was killed before her eyes at Arasaka tower ?
2 questions that don't connect between Red and 2077 , and everyone ignores it
Samantha left them in a garage in NC and arasaka found them and left them but kept their location info. After she died smasher or Grayson probably just took it since they knew where it was. The rogue one I'm not sure of
@@kalaelizabeth but if Jhonny was really nothing to Arasaka or Smasher, why even bother, why were they even looking for them? , the dots don't connect, just like Rogue seems to validate everything we are shown, I believe Jhonny is a narcists , and narcissistic people don't see reality the same way has others , but some of the dots the stories and red bring up, doesn't connect. I do believe jhonnys memories are unreliable, but there are some consistensies
Little theory of mine, but meeting someone again after decades and then hearing them give wrong details of major events would sound suspicious, like it wasn't the same person. Maybe she disregarded it to see what else he wasn't unreliable on, and gauge how much to trust them.
Johnny was killed by Adam at Arasaka Tower. Rogue was there. That’s true in both versions of the story.
You are overlooking, you can find jonny's arm in the landfill
That is a glitch that was removed in 1.x. The story about Johnny's body from black dog is canon.
Either this is a plot hole or your wrong because when you do the ending with rouge where you go right through the wall of arasake tower when you go to get on the av you almost fall off and rouge says not this time which means silver hand did make it to the extraction on the roof and died there
I interpret that as her not letting him die again because she was there when he died. But of course there's inconsistencies because it's supposed to be that way. There's no wrong or right because nothings been finalized but the stories are canon and tell the true events of that night.
The FIA actually seems to believe that Johnny was actually hauled off and interrogated by Saburo Arasaka himself. You can read it on one of the laptops in Phantom Liberty. They say it is s hypothesis, but the way the text is written, it seems like they are talking about Saburo's motivation.
I'm inclined to view the ttrpg lore as being non-canon until proven otherwise. We have to go off what's textually provided otherwise it's just fancruft. While it's reasonable that Johnny is an unreasonable narrator, that's never come up as a major plot point that's reasonably accessible to somebody who only has the 2077 game to go off of. In all the time Johnny interacts with Alt, Kerry or Rogue, none of them ever talk about or bring up some prior misunderstanding between the two.
Rtal used to be super authoritive about this. Before Madqueen disappeared from RUclips, she had J Gray from R Talsorian for an interview. He kept emphasizing over and over again, what’s written in the books is 100% canon. He kept saying "we literally called that chapter 'Johnny's Dead'".
However, I went on the Rtal discord (don't go there, it's weird) and J Gray's tune is completely different. Refused to say concrete anything. Even gaslights the discord. So it seems like he got in trouble for insisting the sourcebooks are 100% canon, or has just given up.
@@markjackson1989
I mean, I have no idea who any of those people are.
But yeah, I also don't really care when people like JK Rowling retroactively say Dumbledore is gay or that students used to shit on the floors of Hogwarts before adopting plumbing.
If it ain't textually supported, then I don't care. I shouldn't need to read interviews or the ultra secret supplementary lore book (I'm looking at you Evangelion) to have to interpret your story.
I can accept that Johnny's memory has degraded from being copied. But until you tell me it matters, it doesn't matter. Textually, Johnny's actual deeds don't matter to any major themes. He's essentially just an newly born sentient entity we have to meet with on present terms.
It's his reputation and legacy as this terrorist rockerboy anarchist that matters, not his real deeds. The best this newborn construct can hope for is to move some small part of his legacy in a positive direction by giving closure to old friends and smashing Mikoshi. A nuke wasn't enough, but shattering Arasaka's power by destroying Mikoshi is one of Johnny's dearest hopes. Or at least, a good representation of his values as the _construct_ of Johnny. A fitting tribute to his memory.
I know most of the lore to the series by now but im exicted to see the community learn and hopefully fall in love with the series. 2077 is very special for me. See you in the big leagues choom!
The lore is this game just keeps giving! Love this lore dive and theories. I'm so excited for you to jump into this fandom, welcome choom!💛💛
There’s a speculation that the dog tag is just an asset flip due to crunch, it might be able to be found on 6th street members too(?) don’t know for sure.
Thank you for making this video!! I'm literally obsessed with the lore, characters and the genre of this game. I'm supposed to do my school stuff right now but Cyberpunk analysis videos are my dopamine ♥
LITERALLY THIS SHOULD GETS MORE VIEWS!! THE LORE IS INSANE
Thank you!! And yes absolutely crazy amazing lore!
You do visit his grave..
Such a great video, i haven't made my opinion on this yet cause there's a to think of. I just hope we'll know more about the whole story someday 😅
Great video! Subbed!
keanu reeves so its great
now that you mention it, maybe johnnys body still have use later... hmmmm, we have the technology.
What if alt is lying.
I was looking away from the screen and I thought "man, she's saying person a lot" and I looked at the screen just in time to catch your apology title. :D
I was gonna rerecord but I just figured I'd apologize instead haha 😭
This is amazing. Now I have to do another playthrough keeping all of this in mind. Great video Kala.
Amazing work! What a treat this is. Discovered you on X and had no you did these kind of videos (which i love!!)
Really amazing work here 🔥
Especially impressed on the timeline that you produces this video in - considering you recently finished the game! Cool to see!
Just came across your Channel, Preem video well done.
I was glued from beginning to end. You got my Subscription I'm looking forward to your next cyber punk video. I'm obsessed with Is cyberpunk 2077 lore. Thanks again choomba
thank you!!
nope
🤔🧐
I'll have to watch this later, I have work in the A.M. and i can tell this rabbit hole is terrifyingly deep- but super fascinating.
so how did it go, did you watch lol