Why Challenging D&D Encounters Matter | Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse | D&D
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2022
- Todd Kenreck sits down with Jeremy Crawford to talk about why challenging encounters matter in 'Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.'
Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse
A bestiary of wondrous friends and foes for the world’s greatest roleplaying game.
Sparkling with the musings of the wizard Mordenkainen, this tome features a host of creatures for use in the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. Hailing from every corner of the multiverse, these creatures represent some of the most benevolent and malevolent forces that D&D heroes might face.
The book also gathers together fantastical peoples from many different worlds. Each of these peoples represents a race option when you create your D&D character, expanding on the choices in the Player’s Handbook.
Compiling and updating monsters that originally appeared in Volo’s Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes, this book presents friends and foes for any D&D campaign, many of them accompanied by the comments of Mordenkainen. The wizard has faced many of these monsters and peoples on numerous wondrous adventures. Now it’s time for you to venture forth and face these creatures yourself!
Includes over 250 monsters. Updates to the monsters include making spellcasters easier for Dungeon Masters to run; giving many monsters more damage and resilience; and improving the organization of the stat blocks themselves.
Includes over 30 playable races. Brings all the game’s setting-agnostic races into one book, complementing the races in the Player’s Handbook.
A multiverse of lore. Includes updates to monster lore that refocuses the stories on the D&D multiverse, rather than on any particular world.
#dnd #dungeonsanddragons 
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I'm a fan of tough nail-biting battle. I enjoy the edge of your seat rolls. Might be stressful for others, but walking away with just 1hp is job well done.
Yesterday i was DMing a session where a party consisting of a level 2 Tortle Druid, a level 2 gnome cleric and a level 2 human paladin battled their way past an Ankheg and the gargoyle, both CR 2 monsters and faced one at a time, only to enter the tomb they were heading for and find themselves facing a banshee (CR4) the party knew backup was on the way but didn't know when it would arrive.. after the first round of combat, where the banshee had merely toyed with them all three were on no more than three hp. the roll to see if the back up arrived was a nat 20 so the two fresh adventurers, one a level 1 Kalestar Rogue the other a level 2 half banshee Barbarian arrived at the start of round two. that was when the half banshee cracked everyone up by taking one look at the banshee and saying, "Aunt Agnes? what are you doing in Wildemount?" needless to say combat ended instantly and the encounter with the banshee turned into a social encounter where some major plot information for the current arch was gained. the half banshee player earned 150 XP for this innovative in character piece of role-play.
Great to see Todd back around - excellent video topic as well! Someone else mentioned that it was an obvious topic, and I agree yes but with a caveat - I think some newer DMs who are less confident about what to do in these types of scenarios can feel a bit more empowered to mold the game to their specific needs/wants with something akin to "permission" from someone like Jeremy Crawford. There's a tendency, when starting out, to forget that D&D has always been a customizable game/experience, and I think reminding and reassuring folks of this is worth the effort.
It's important to remember that a hard fight and a fun fight is NOT the same thing, necessarily
Honestly, I don't think DnD is meant to be back-to-back hard encounters. It's about the slow expenditure of resources - lots of smaller challenges and fights, constantly, with tradeoffs. The occasional difficulty spike is the spice that makes players want to conserve their potions and higher spells slots, risking taking damage on smaller encounters. Gaining the information required to inform your decisions about when to use resources are what utility spells and skills are for.
I'm really looking forward to this book but more so as when Spelljammer finally follows it!
This guy is so well spoken
Man, this is some great insight!!
I don't even play D&D but i still watched this video lmfao
idk why tbh
It's your conscience telling you to give d&d a try :D
As a DM, I consider a job well done if I can run monsters convincingly such that even smaller monsters represent a reasonable threat to their resources. They were never at risk of losing, but if a CR5 party is tuckered out by 3CR's worth of monsters, then that's a satisfying victory that puts larger conflicts with deadlier monsters into greater perspective.
It also works as a means of teaching players how DnD might be strategic. If they see, react to, and emulate what I'm running, it'll help them defeat greater challenges.
We need an updated monster manual too 👍
That would be fantastic
Literally what this book is going to be.
@@lapierre520 I meant the realign current monster manual. This one doesn't have those monsters.
I have found for characters as they start getting up in levels and when combat involves multiples to max out the damage and not roll. definitely adds to the challenge.
Encounters should run from speed bumps to Run It ate Fred in the First round!
Really looking forward to getting my hands on this book ^^ These talks are great :)! Thanks for the good content ^^
Best video thumbnail ever.
So I have to buy two books I already have to get a book filled with monsters that I already have, just formatted a different way?
You never feel better in the game when you beat the odds and out smart the plan. This is a big part of D&D and should not be over looked, If it is too hard for the players that is what the DM is for. They can just make it easier or make something happen on the spot.
See, then it's about illusion (nothing implicitly wrong with that), but DMs often find it difficult to convincingly sell players that they're smarter than they are.
Players know about "DM mercy", and if they see it, they know that they didn't really beat the odds. Selling the illusion is actually pretty difficult, in practice.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I see what your saying, but I would also say that is part of getting to be a good DM, making the world feel real even when its all made up. The Big bad running away is a little stale, but the big bad knocking the players out, and having them wake up in a new plane as reborn for the testing of a mad mind plan of utter doom. Might be a good way to take it.
@@TheTechnatron Well, it all depends on what passes for your player's immersion.
For some players, it's harder than others.
Personally, I like to plan more around how to naturally avoid that kind of result than plan for TPK's to happen. Regardless of how "grand" my subversion of TPK expectations are, my players know damn well what it is lol.
So I opt not to bother with illusion. I don't run single, pitched encounters and instead run multiple encounters of slightly lower and stochastic difficulty. Players then get to gauge their confidence on taking more risk, and bad luck won't result in a TPK since the danger of each encounter is lower and I won't have to pull my punches in the first place.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 TKP is all up to how you use it in the game. Yes it can be the end of a story or just the start. Always play with thinking there is something more to the story giving ends of things, Therefor and but. What I mean with this, you can always end with but something X happens to the party Therefor you need to do X if you do not do this something Y is going to happen ect... A story should never have a end in site it should just end when the time is right for it.
With that I'm just saying it's the same for power level. You should be able to set whatever you need for the next round. Like I might give my king goblin a boon of speed and some magic items that make him much more powerful, But on that same hand I might have him on his last hit point and picking the fate he will see fit for the players. We can always add and subtract all we want as DM's.
@@TheTechnatron I'm still going to insist that the arbitrary nature of a DM's narrative is still best limited by your players expectation for immersion.
If they don't care, that's fine and feel free to do whatever narrative brute forcing that you need.
But if players know there is no real threat, then it changes how they'll play. Once you make it obvious they're in no real danger, then your challenges won't really be respected. I don't think it's good to design highly TPK-likely encounters in the first place.
Solid advice with regards to below or above average HP... and, adjusting on the fly is a valuable skill for DMs. Great chat!
Pretty common sense basic stuff. Rather than a fluff piece like this wotc should probably have gone into the ins/outs of making balanced encounters. Good topic it just would have been nice to get something more than adjust hp and damage if need be. Maybe how short this video is though...this might be all we should have expected maybe?
There is no such thing as a "balanced" encounter. There are plenty of other videos and guides on how to make encounters. Just look up lazy dungeon master or DM lair. Both of them have tons of videos on the subject.
pretty pictures~
Been doing this for a long time =P Also if they fight some weak enemies like goblins, I might just make some more pop up from a side tunnel or something if it's too easy =P Another tip I wanna add is that you as DM can have them fight like 1-2 enemies of a kind, to see how many you can use further in the dungeon to make it just the right difficulty ;)
I think the criticism that action economy is unbalanced between players and npcs gets more to the heart of the issue. Scaling HP can be effective at changing the difficulty of encounters because players can run out of resources/hp over time, but that doesnt necessarily solve any fundamental balance issues. Without addressing imbalances in action economy, then an encounter can be made more 'challenging' by increasing monster hp, but it still doesnt feel right or satisfying.
Being on a sinking ship can be an adventure in and of itself, and an example of PCs v. Environment.
Ghosts of Salt Marsh had a good one that included this.
Also, not every encounter needs to be winnable. It's a living world, after all. However, every encounter should offer a way to progress (barring complete player dumb decisions). That's why I was disappointed in the Chardalyn berserker mission in Rime of the Frostmaiden.
SPOILER
In that encounter, the berserkers can never be brought below 1 hp as long as the magical flame is burning in a different room. This a very poorly designed encounter for several reasons (assume PCs are level 5-6): 1. It's very easy to get into combat with these berserkers without even knowing about the room with the flame, so just one enemy can TPK your party via attrition, 2. the only way to extinguish the flame is via dispel magic, which leads to 3. You have to have at least one of the PCs have a dispel magic spell ready and a slot open to cast, and 4. assume the PCs even find out that dispel magic would work in this situation.
It's not just an unwinnable encounter unless all of these factors line up just perfect that the players would never know to do anyway, it's an entire mission and side quest that's unwinnable unless the players just so happen to have all of the above lined up just right. And again, there's no way the PCs would possibly know any of that to be prepared beforehand.
Just some thoughts on this: 1. It could always be able to be put out another way, not just dispel magic. 2. You could have the players do an insight/ arcana/ nature check on the berserkers during the combat, and "realize" something magical is controlling them, affecting them, they don't take damage the same way, etc.. 3. You could have the berserkers outright say to the players, in an ego and hubris sort of way "With the power of the flame, you cannot defeat us." There are plenty of ways the players could "learn" about the fire.
Every time they show that Gith guy in the artwork, I only see Christian Bale
Without consequences and risk there is no spice.
I can't buy Monsters of the Multiverse on its own if I wanted to get it right now; I'd have to buy it as part of the $160 Rules Expansion Gift Set bundle, two thirds of which (Tasha's and Xanathar's) I already bought before. I'd have to wait several months to be able to buy MotM standalone. This is supposed to lure in new players with a good deal, but it also essentially forces avid players to fork over an extra hundred US dollars for content they already own, just to get access to the new stuff. I dunno about you but I call this scummy. Is a Morkoth running WotC now?
Just wait a couple months. No one is forcing you to buy the bundle.
Did Jeremy Crawford just say it's OK for the DM to fudge dice rolls?! SWEET!
always has been. just don't tell the players.
@@JupiterTheWizard OH, I do it all the time, I was just being snarky. I have on many occasions given a villain more hitpoints after they get knocked down to a quarter of their HP in one round. Balancing encounters is SUPER hard with more than 6 players (or at least something I haven't quite gotten the hang of yet).
@@Hangtime_Davi64 I know exactly how you feel, in the same boat.
Probably, the worst advice in the Handbooks & to come out of another DM's mouth. Fudging rolls, & smudging stats is low tier lying to your players. If you want integrity at the table out of your players, its a good rule of thumb to remember the DM is also a player at the same table. Whats good for the players is good for the table as a whole. Players play better when they know the results are the results.
@@semajcw3 I really think it depends on why you're doing it, and it also will differ from group to group. If I plan an encounter that is supposed to be very challenging but I overestimate the villains stats, the encouter will be too easy. If this is a known major villain, that can be disappointing and boring to everyone. I usually don't fudge actual dice rolls unless it's in the players' favor. I've definitely changed stat blocks on the fly if an encounter is way too one sided.
Monster balance is already wack. Like, I don't think I've ever been in a 5E game where a DM didn't make monsters make suboptimal choices because playing optimally with the encounters WotC writes can be deadly when the DM wants them to be. Bandits from Lost Mine of Phandelver come to mind; multiattack against Level 2s can just be straight up deadly, so most DMs will split the multiattack to different targets when everyone and their mother knows or learns quickly that focusing targets is by far the more optimal play, or a DM might have a monster target the heavy-armored PC next to them when there's a squishy in range and they can totally take the opportunity attack.
Part of this is because 5E really takes the stance of, "Let players play what feels cool, not what's necessarily the most optimal." And that's *fine*. 4E was more wargamey and the overwhelming view there seems to be that DMs loved it but players didn't. But as a result, CR and encounter balance just seems to be this black magic that's more reliant on a DM making balance decisions there in the moment.
I personally find this whole section about "Just change the monster's HP" to be stupid. A game's combat balance should never *rely* on a player's ignorance of the mechanics. That doesn't feel like a game anymore, and you're putting way too much weight onto a DM to do your game balancing on the fly for you. That's something maybe experienced DMs should be able to do, but know when to do and how to confidently do it, but the way 5E plays out, it's virtually every combat, and you have a lot of new DMs here. I'm sorry, combat, CR, encounter balancing all needs a full pass, and saying "Some monsters are scary and also we changed higher level CRs" doesn't do it for me.
@@aaronwilliams8887 Yeah. Your last sentence really kinda hits the nail on the head for the largest point: DMs are making the game fun in spite of the combat system's weaknesses, not because of it. But when I go to WotC or JCraw, I don't want them to tell me how to make my encounters meaningful, because that's my job; I want them to tell me how to make them appropriately challenging.
The CR system fails in that; at low levels, DMs have to pull their punches, and at high levels, there's no real way to account for CR anymore because of how scarce or prevalent magic items might be in anyone's given game.
As a result, the onus on the DM feels far, far too heavy, and I'm sorry but "fix it on the fly, numbers are just suggestions, your players don't know the stat blocks" isn't good enough for me when D&D's strongest pillar is combat, while the exploration and social pillars are given watered down pittance at best.
@@KevinMacku all of this is well written. Speaks to my soul as well. Amazing post.
Im really anoyed that i cant buy the one book i dont have before 4 months after the gifts set. Does not make me want to buy the giftset, makes me just less happy as a customer
Like, low-key, I have missed videos with Todd.
DnD is awesome and I am having trouble understanding the current hate on the game
the CR mean someting in DnD? I mean already from the start assuming a group of 4 players, if I play with my 4 friends with who I play DnD since 20 years and we do synergitique character that cooperate and help each other and use abilities the synergise between each other, my group will be 10 time stronger then my Adventurer league group where 4 random players join teh table each with their character doing their own thing, so my sorcerer who purpose was to cast haste on the rogue so the rogue was able to sneak attack twice per round (on 2 different turn, using a ready action) or on the fighter who would grapple the target and grate it ont he druid spkike growth using the double speed provided by haste and the triple movement (movement, +dash, +hasted action dash) now cast haste on a barbarian dealing barely 2d6+14 damage but only got 35% hit chance (great weapon master). And here i'm not a even talking about those group of "RPer" creating the worse character imaginable because they heard somewhere that having flaw made the character deeper, so they made a Bard with 8 Charisma to explore the deep of his difficulties and how he'll beat the odd...
So already trying to pin point what kind of challenge my team of friends can handle compare to the chalenges the random Adventurer league group can handle their is a huge discrepencies.
Then if you look at the creature CR in the Monster manual (and in other books) anyone can explain to me how a Intellect devours who's able to fear a 20th level barbarian (or any character with 8 Intellect and no Intelligence saving throw profiencies) is a CR 2, but a saber toothed tiger who won't even be able to damage the 20th evel barbarian is also a CR2 creature? Ok maybe I used a unfair exemple using the one creature in the book (intellect devourer) who got an abilitity to target a weak point of many character and that will never increase between level 1 and level 20.
So let's compare to CR 2 creature that are next to each other in the Monster manual: GRick and GRiffon
Griffon have 12 AC, 59 HP, can fly 80ft does 2 attack at +6 dealing 8-11 damages.
Grick: AC 14, HP 27, climb 30ft, got 2 attack (with condition) +4 to hit dealing between 9-5 damages.
Please anyone can tell me how those 2 creature ahve the same CR. Sure the Grick got 2 more AC. That mean 10% more chacne to avoid an attack, the griffon have double the HP and can fly to simply ignore the melee attack. The Griffon is stronger then the Grick on EVERY other point. and not just a just little bit stronger. If a Grik is a CR 2, Grifon should be CR 4 easy.
Maybe I should stop comparing low level mosnter? ok let's compare 2 big high level monster then:
Ancient White dragon with AC 20, 333HP, fly/swim/burrow speed 40ft, saving throw rangin betwee 0 and 14, 3 legendary resistance, 3 attacks with +14 to hit dealing on average 28-15 and 15 damage+Frightfl presence DC16 or a cold breah DC 22 deing 72 damage plus 3 legenary action+Lair action
Compare to a Pit Fiend
AC 19, HP 300, fly speed 60ft, saving thrown ranging between 2 and 13, damage resistance, damage immunities, condition immunities, fear aura DC 21 =, magic resistance, access to hold monster 3/day (DC21) 4 attacks with +14 to hit and dealing 22-17-15-24. The bite add the poisoned status (D21) dealing an additional 21 poison damage and preventing healing
I mean sure for teh average player at quick glance they seem equivalent (maybe even a small bonus to the dragon become of it's legendary status) but that hold monster DC21.... I know a few character with -1 or 0 to their wisdom saving throws, amking this saving thrown impossible. You were expectign the barbarian to get in range of the pit fiend and destroy it in a single round... sorry nope,
A full filling encounter has PCs rolling death saves!
A fulfilling encounter IMO is more when players feel like what their character is good at is what happens. I had level 4s fighting a plate mail boss and my paladin kept rolling just too low to hit the 18 AC. Sometimes the dice hate you. There were death saves made in that combat. Not everyone felt fulfilled.
The next boss they fought, they barely struggled with. The rogue got a crit, the paladin pulled off a fighting style move and got to use polearm master with a juicy smite. They were all smiles and laughter at the end of it. Not a single death save rolled, but I feel like they all felt fulfilled.
I disagree with the opening line. Player Characters shouldnt have plot armor. This is a problem with what i would consider "newer" D&D. DMs shouldnt make things impossible, but htey also shouldnt be afraid of TPK either.
Without a challenge there is no purpose. Anything achieved without work lacks internal accomplishment. Hard battles make the game memorable with friends!
I don't know why he would suggest that sometimes you just want an easy encounter? I get not wanting to make impossible encounters meant to TPK a party. But even an encounter that can TPK the party (should they resort to violence) can be a good thing as it encourages the party to think outside the box. Not every encounter should be "winable" with swords and spells. You could get super lucky and win or talk your way out. You could run and engage at a later time when you muster the power to defeat them. A major CR could just get bored and leave.
Easy encounters just are unsatisfying in my opinion. Most games these days start with level 3 characters making most low CR creatures pointless. Most animals are no threat at all. When was the last time you seen a boar, or a jackal used in an encounter? So many CR 1/4 to CR 1's never get used unless as a pet familiar or beastmaster ranger companion.
Sorry for the rant, just an old school DM longing for more challenge to my players and less easy solutions via magic spells and feats.
maybe we should just get rid of monster hp altogether and let DMs decide what makes sense narratively when or if they fall.
Right? That is singularly the worst bit of advice ever from professionals writing material we game with. Is it a game or not. Obviously its role playing... but should it be a Role Playing Story RPS or a Role Playing Game? Thats the big question & almost entirely answered whenever I read or hear fudging dice rolls & smudging stats. So we just here for storyline not the game mechanics... alright cool. Just tell me up front, let's not try to be the all powerful & great Oz!
The monsters in that book are not much better.
challenge rating is garbage as it stands right now
Challenge rating is just an estimate =P Many other factors weigh in on the actual encounter. Like if you have both a paladin and a cleric in a fight vs a greater demon/devil, the fight might be a lot easier. Also the magic items the players have makes an impact on the difficulty ;)
I think for new players, a DM should give them pre-rolled characters to play and absolutely KILL them on the first adventure. This lets them know that if they play sloppy, they MAY die! Give XP to the player, not the character, so when they re-roll a new one, they can create one and apply that XP right away. You can send the new group into the same scenario to re-claim important objects, weapons, gold, etc. and they can change their tactics to beat the creature. I had a DM do that and it was awesome. You learn your class limitations and see how other classes play, so when you re-roll a new one, you choose the class you really want.
Hate to say it but , good talk , but super obvious topic ... how about some meat with the broth.