Seeing how Tolkien made sure all 4 of the hobbits returned home safely after the war makes me cry. He would have despeerately wanted all 4 of his friends returning home after WWI. But it wasn’t meant to be. You can rest in peace, John Ronald. The literature you and your friends wanted to protect during the time of the trenches has lived on. Your name and that of your friends is immortal now, no shell will ever be able to erase your memory. And all thanks to literature, imagination and art. You made it, John Ronald. You succeeded wherre it seemed impossible Damn, I’m crying aga😊in
I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but... I lost my best friend, who happened to be my older sister, 4 months ago... at the age of 36, her depression got the best of her. She was too sensitive and gentle for this modern world. She fought her own war, and she lives on (sometimes extremely painfully) in the memory of everyone who knew her. To me, she is a hero and her memory reminds me to be kind when it is hardest, and to never surrender to evil and greed. I have a tattoo covering my whole right arm in her memory. We should never forget people like this, for we can always work harder to be like them. Now I'm crying too 😅. LOTR was one of the things she introduced to me btw. That line from Gandalf, "true courage is not knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one." Just encapsulates her as a person Losing the battle or making mistakes doesn't make you a coward or a loser either, as we see with Boromir and others. Cheers my friend, hope you're having a lovely summer ☀️
War-altered character that resonates the most with me is Merry: His survivor's guilt over Boromir's death, his protective instinct towards Pippin, his desperate courage, and his wounding and recovery.
One thing I find very interesting is the lack of context non English Tolkien enthusiasts have about the social class that professor Tolkien belonged to. He was able to finish his schooling before going to 'the front'. The working class were never given that privilege. I imagine one of the reasons he didn't get along with other soldiers is because of this class divide. I wonder if Tolkien's reticence to accept the allegory and application of WW1 to the LOTR is because he knew he did not experience the same war as enlisted men. Tolkien was kept for a lot of the danger not only because he was a signaler but because he was never expected to fight the same war as enlisted men. Their poetry, Their letters and their Fantasies lost and forgotten.
About WWI and WWII? No. Informed by his personal experiences, as with any writer? Yes. Sam was indeed the one left behind. I've said this elsewhere, but the words that have always really gotten me, the ones that have always made me tear up, are not the goodbyes, but the very last words of the book. For me, the scene that hits the hardest is when Sam stands outside of his home, which is filled with the light and warmth of his family, watching them before he goes in, torn between two worlds in that moment, and then enters to say, "Well, I'm back." Those few words say so much and are the definition of bittersweet. It kills me every time. This was so lovely, and I'm so glad I discovered this channel today. Thank you.
Boromir is forever my favorite paladin in all of fiction. Not because he was perfect, but because he was tempted, gave in, and then redeemed himself so thoroughly by giving his life to defend his most innocent companions.
I always told people who had never read it, including my kids, that you could tell a writer's priorities and sentiments by what they focused on: in this case, Tolkien would spend 6 pages in florid description of the hobbits walking, the trees they weree surrounded by, the the leaves on the trees, the songs of the birds and their plumage, the food the hobbits ate, their banter, the songs they sang...and one brief paragraph of 2 or 3 sentences on the battle of Pelennor. I exaggerate, but barely so.
same in the hobbit, the battle of five armies is a very small part of the book (and bilbo is unconsciousness for a big chunk),so small that when I re-read it as a teenager, after reading it as a kid I completely forgot there was such a part
@@gertmuller9936 well when you stretch one book into 3 movies, you can spend that time on the battle regardless of its necessity to the story , tone or pacing of the narrative lol
Younger me definitely read it because it said it was about "The War of the Ring". As I grew up, I got to appreciate how Tolkien's experiences in World War I definitely shaped it. Interesting too how even after two World Wars he was able to be horrified at the use of the atomic bombs and refer to the people gloating at the suffering in Germany as "orcs". Great video, as always, Jess!
Nowadays it’s pretty weird how the term ‘orcs’ is used. Some people use it to describe Russian soldiers in their war against Ukraine. I don’t agree with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and I’m of the opinion that Ukrainian sovereignty should be respected but I think people are going way too far by referring to Russian soldiers as orcs. Dehumanising your enemies makes genocides and other horrors more likely to happen…
@@thenetherlands5838, I couldn't agree more with you. There are no orcs in real wars - there are just human beings, and most of them didn't choose to be warriors. And in real wars the soldiers don't have to kill orcs but other human beings.
Y'all are tripping or what? Russian army is wagging offensive war knowingly to their soldiers, who sometimes kill off entire populations of occupied settlements, if there's anything that can be called orcish, it's that.
@@thenetherlands5838 Thats the point. You dehumanize your enemy to kill them. In world war 2 it was japs and jerries, in the gulf it was the Haj. We dehumanize them because killing people isn't a normal instinct for us social humans. In the age of high explosive its shoot first or be paste. War is hell
Some do unfortunately... Tolkien never said it, but superweapons like the atomic bomb, to me, could very well be the ring of power. Even Hitler hated them ffs!!!
Nothing I would dread more than having to bury my own child. Our daughter is a Navy Corpsman assigned to a Marine forward recon unit. Now she has health issues from exposure.
Nothing I would dread more than having to bury my own child. Our daughter is a Navy Corpsman assigned to a Marine forward recon unit. Now she has health issues from exposure.
Which character resonated most with me? As a 70 yr old male, who first read this in 1967 as a pre-teen, surprisingly, : Eowyn. her rise from dispair and depression, to wanton disregard of herself while in battle, to acceptance, warmth and peace of her growing relationship with Faramir, another wounded warrior. A commen growth among many of us.
Eowyn--the women left behind in war are often the most changed by war. I know Eowyn went to war, but her description of being left behind to die defending home is devastating.
I came here to express these same sentiments about your video, but since I would not have done it so eloquently, I’ll just comment here. Well done, Jess… Thank you
Of the LotR characters touched by the war, I most identify with (and this is not going to be a common answer, I would guess, lol) Fredegar Bolger. I am disabled and would never be called on to fight, but Fredegar played his part, and I like to think I play my own part in the world events, as do all the people who stay home, simply by carrying on, and of course by voting. Thanks, Jess, for another excellent video!
The four hobbits were supposed to represent a spectrum of what happens to those who go to war - Pippin falls at The Battle of the Morannon in an earlier draft. Then we have Sam coming home braver, more confident, and grown to full stature. We would have had Merry coming home wiser and stronger, but also chastened, sadder, and bereft of his cousin and best friend. We have Frodo coming home so wounded and traumatized he could not find peace. And we would have had Pippin, who did not come home at all.
I've always appreciated your educated analysis, and your insights. But in this case I admire your empathy and sensitivity to the suffering disaster that is war. I see that it was difficult for you, so I doubly thank you for providing it.
One of my most beloved characters in LOTR will ever be Faramir. It is so admirable that he can resist the influence of the ring that twisted so many other characters and I really like his attitude to war and violence! In my opinion this is the only reason ever why humanity should go to war and if all people acted like Faramir, the world would be a much more peaceful and happy place. Thanks a lot for this video, it was very interesting and gave me a lot more insight in how Tolkien perceived the wars!
I read the books and saw the movies as a young man, before going to war myself. Reading the books as an older man, after a couple of combat deployments, the books and the personal costs to the returning characters resonated in a completely different way. Tolkien knew us, was us, and was without a doubt, writing about us, the ones that came home.
Faramir is the character that resonates mostly with my feelings. A wise and thoughtful character that desires piece instead of glory on the battle field. And one of the most moving scenes in the whole movie is when he rides out to meet the enemy when pippin sings a song for Denethor. And as you told the story about TCBS, I felled a tear as well. A touching story about a society of friends that were altered and destroyed by the horrible war.
Tolkien called the masters of war (specifically the atomic bomb makers) “Babel builders” that “God does not look kindly on”. I think this is why Christopher was so offended by the PJ movies that he saw as action films for boys that glorifies war. Tolkien’s “second world” life work was partly a therapeutic response to his trauma and has lovingly shared this with us. Tolkien shows us how to go to The Realm of Faerie, like Niggle in his cell, you can always escape and knowing that is very therapeutic when trapped by physical or subconscious walls.
@@ZephyrOptional , yes, you are right. Christopher Tolkien was very offended by Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy! As someone who has read the books long becore I watched the movies, but who loves both, Christopher Tolkien's rejections of the LOTR movies makes me a bit sad, and I think that Christopher Tolkien is wrong! I don't think that Jackson's depiction of the major battles are action movies for boys at all, and especially the movie version of the retreat of the Rohirrim and the subsequent Battle of Helm's Deep has been called one of the greatest battle scenes in the history of cinema! Violence and death aren't glorified at all - except maybe the contest of Legolas and Gimli re: the number of their confirmed orc killings. But Peter didn't invent this. It"s actually Tolkien's own invention. His orcs are cannon fodder for his heroes, and the orcs can be killed by the heroes in droves without having to feel guilty about it! Tolkien dehumanized these sentient beings who were used by Saruman and Sauron. As much as I love Tolkien's LOTR - l never liked that orcs were irredeemably evil who b needed to be eradicated.
@@sabineb.5616 sorry, I got to the point where you said Christopher Tolkien’s opinion was “wrong” and tuned out. Sorry again, but from a scholarly perspective, your opinion, or Jackson’s for that matter, just doesn’t weigh anything against John Ronald Reuel or Christopher Tolkien’s in relation to the core themes of his work, although you’re free to believe whatever you want. I know a lot of PJ moves fans have a rather stunted perspective on the complexities of the Legendarium. Don’t get me wrong, I love the PJ movies for what they are but for someone who has been reading Tolkien for over 3 decades, I understand (like Christopher) the PJ movies missed the Tolkien boat many ways and glorifying war is just one of them.
@@ZephyrOptional "tuning out" before you even finish reading somebodies points before you decide to discredit them seems pretty stupid...... From a scholarly perspective. His points are valid even if they upset you because you hold Tolkeins work dearly.
@@Shiftarus I’ll apologize to you too but will respectful decline conversation about Tolkien with anyone who argues against what Tolkien is on record saying about how we should understand the Legendarium in regards to artistic adaption because they like PJs battle scenes. And when I say Tolkien, that inseparably includes Christopher too. For me, the adaptations are fun but totally irrelevant to understanding what makes Tolkien great. You can enjoy the spectacle while I’ll study its true meaning, unless the spectral is part of the meaning, I have no time for it. There is a lot of pointless & inaccurate spectacle in the PJ films.
It only occurred to me while watching: the Shire is a Thankful Village. Of the tens of thousands of towns and villages in England and Wales, there are only 53 known where no villagers were killed in WW1. There are only 12 in France, and none in Scotland. The term was first coined in the 1930s, so Tolkein probably heard it. Even rarer are the doubly thankful villages, where all the villagers who fought in WW2 also returned.
Well I wasn't expecting to cry while doing my dishes and listening to this in the background. But I don't think I can ever get through Frodo's quote at the end of the Grey Havens chapter without a tear.
Alright I am crying now. My wife and I are both children of veterans of WW II. As the only son of one who came back, and now being the father of two sons, both of whom idealized their grandfathers. Your comments on how war permeates the lives of the survivors, and their descendants struck true. Between my LOTR film props and my sons collections of memorabilia from WWI and WWII, we live in a constant state of remembrance. Thank you for your wonderful content. Thank you too for bringing tears to my eyes all over again. As a Catholic I am sure that the TCBS’s are all smiling down on you. ❤
This is easily my favourite video you've done. I think it's the best analysis of Boromir, Faramir and Theoden I've ever encountered, and the revelation of the TCBS and their importance to the development of Middle-earth is profound to me. It feels inevitable that there were four members of the TCBS, and that four hobbits left the shire. You didn't cry tears recording the video, but you elicited them in my viewing. Thank you.
The focus of war in LOTR, the Silmarillion and other Tolkien works makes me double happy for Tales of the Shire - a no stakes game celebrating the lives of those simple folk who love stories, family, and good tilled earth.
I'm very happy to see you reach 140k subs! I think it's indisputable that many aspects Tolkien's war experience made their way into the story. From broader themes such as the desire to destroy the amorphous threat of "evil," which can never truly be vanquished by any mortal power, to the effect of this struggle on the littlest common man, who thinks himself safe to ignore it in his green corner of the world, the truths Tolkien learned from the World War are ingrained in the books' themes. As you rightly say, he often breaks down the romanticized idea of war, but not in a cynical "modern" way, which commonly concludes that war is a pointless waste and there is no "right" side. Instead, he insists that the fight must still continue, even though it can seem hopeless, and that even the most ordinary person can make a great difference. Thanks for inspiring thought on this important topic!
Thanks so much! I love the point that he wasn't breaking the war down in a cynical way. He understood that sometimes war must be, but there was no need to glorify it
Of course it is. You have Frodo the upper class officer and Sam the lower class. You have Esprit de Corps You have “never being able to come home again” You have “all wish it would not have happened in their lifetimes” and the old burying the young. You have the soldiers leaving as children and coming home as adults who become community leaders. You have frodos pain that never goes away It’s just not an allegory for Ww2 and Sauron is not Hitler
Thank you for doing this subject- if you look at various artists across all media who came out of WWI and WWII, it's a fascinating area of study. The scale of horror that came about with modern warfare in that era is tragic and yet it motivated a lot of talented people to make something out of their experiences. I love your channel!
I'd like to believe Tolkien sneaked in an autobiographical detail when he describes Frodo's primary role in the Battle of Bywater as preventing wrathful hobbits from murdering their captives. Soldiers of all sides during WWI rarely troubled themselves to take prisoners. I want to think Tolkien had the chance to keep the brutality down, if only in a few small cases.
There's actually an anecdote from the Carpenter Biography of a time when Tolkien brought a drink of water to a German prisoner, and spoke German with him a bit (apparently the guy corrected his pronunciation haha)
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I wonder if Tolkien truly struggled with German or if his indecipherable voice happened to butcher the pronunciation of every language haha.
I can't explain how much I love your deep dives into the Lord of the Rings. I have read this book since I was 12. Many people like Gandalf and Aragorn and Sam. They're great characters, but for me, the truly great and fascinating characters are the ones who struggle with the temptation of the Ring.
Tolkien would probably frown on the notion that LotR is *about* WW1, but it's hard to imagine that his own experience with this war in particular didn't mould his view on wars in general.
Excellent analysis and beautifully said! Boromir’s stubbornness and pride reminds me of the generals of the Great War. Relying on old Napoleonic tactics and later barbarism. To try and win against the force that is industrialized warfare. A new evil that humanity faces for the first time in such a grand scale. It becomes even more evident with the emergence of the Second World War. That we cannot fight industrialized warfare with industrialized warfare and hope to truly win long term. And the One Ring, to me, mirrors this notion.
I liked your take on the war altered characters and also pick Theoden. It’s awful to say but there are so many good books as a result of World War One & Two. I am a huge fan of T.H. White’s Once & Future King, which has characters that reflect the old and new thinking you spoke of. T.H. White wasn’t a soldier but he was a pacifist who recognized how dangerous Hitler was and wrote the book as his response to war. I was fortunate to have a teacher that recommended that book to me in high school. I read so many other books as a result, including Lord of the Rings. I’ve read some very compelling books by veterans/soldiers. I met one a few years ago at an authors/readers retreat in Cannon Beach, Oregon that shared a vision he had that helped him write his story and publish it. He in turn encouraged me to do the same.
Actually, I thought you did pretty well. The Great War is such a vast subject that it can't really be done justice in a thirty-odd minute video. One point you made was of Tolkien's desire to be in the same unit as his friends when he deployed. That was in keeping with the British War Office's offer to keep volunteers of a given locality in the same unit. This proved to be a rather ghastly affair, as all these "pals" volunteered, trained, and marched off together....only to be all killed together.
The aspect that strikes me most strongly at the end of the book, is Frodo's refusal to carry a sword, his horror at killing. I'm sure it's intended by Tolkien as a statement, but is entirely left out by Peter Jackson.
Harry Turtledove did a six-book fantasy series usually called the 'Darkness' series (starts with Into the Darkness, etc.) which is literally WW2 in a fantasy world. As Turtledove is a pretty in-depth Tolkien fan, I always wondered if he was inspired by Tolkien's letter about how if LOTR had been based on WW2, the Ring would have been used against Sauron and none of the great powers would care what happened to the Hobbits.
I know nothing of H. Turtledove but it fascinates me to hear of Tolkien's response. To me, the Ring of Power always signified his subliminal awareness of the striving to create the ultimate weapon. In point of fact, the military were against its deployment - it was indeed the politicians who sent the atomic bombs to Japan.
one of the most interesting things I noticed was how often big important battles happen off to the side. There is a lot of climactic deaths, and a lot of important moments that just aren't narratively satisfying. Like the battle of 5 armies. Half the cast dies and we barely get a description of it. Or Gandalf vs Sauron, or Gandalf vs the Necromancer, or Gandalf vs the Balrog (lots of Gandalf fights). We have these huge climactic fights that we just... don't get to see. War is the same way. You just hear about things that happen. Friends go off to fight and never come back. Huge battles occur that you never see. It's anticlimactic because that is how war really is. Life isn't a story, sometimes things simply aren't poetic.
I love LOTR. It is the most relatable down-to-earth fantasy sword-and-sorcery story ever written. But my favourite character is Tom Bombadil perhaps because he is so separated from the horrors of the story.
One of the parallels I noticed is the way Tolkien treats industry - not necessarily bad per se (just look at the Dwarves) but that its power can be villainously used to burn up nature and turn it into weapons of war the way Saruman does. In World War One the incessant shelling produced by industry transformed any natural landscape of trees and fields into splintered matchsticks and muddy craters where nothing could survive. I feel that must have influenced his opinion on the topic at least somewhat.
The battlefields as well as the home front. Many are the anecdotes from soldiers of the Great War returning home after years to find that home is almost unrecognizable; changing landscapes, changing social morés, etc.
Excited to watch! I really appreciate your content. It's nice to get your insightful analysis considering most channels just recount lore. Your specialized outfits and backgrounds are also lovely!
Jess, I also wept over these stories and in your video. You have an amazing understanding of Tolkien and storytelling at whole. I've recently found your channel and am ever the gladder for it. I hope your day is happy and Hobbit-y as well. Thank you.
I think Eomer resonates with me the most. I'm not sure why, except maybe his innate pragmatism with that tiny but significant nugget of hope burning at its heart appeals to me.
Jess, your voice broke just a little, and my throat closed up a bit. Kudos to you, again, for intelligent, passionate story telling. Thank you. To answer your question, I'm of the Boromir persuasion, but I'm old enough to know that if your tool is a hammer, not everything is a nail.
Its interesting as well to note how the meaning of the story becomes evermore profound as one gets older. The collection of years adds depth and understanding.
In my reading it's about the intersection of class, societies and war, specifically the old aristocrat dynasties of Europe and the emerging class consciousness of the labour movements, trade union power, bolshevism, and how the affable gentlemen feared a changing future
In Boromir's defence, if you wield the One Ring, you are master of the Nine Ringwraiths including the Witchking... that's very tempting indeed. Very touching video and I am looking forward to your video delving deeper into the Tea Club Barrovian Society, especially the only other surviving member: Christopher Wiseman. I am very curious about him and what became of him after the first world war.
Wonderful post, especially the background/story of the TCBS and how (in my mind, anyway) it influenced JRR Tolkien's seminal works. Thank you again, Lady of the Shire!
I enjoy your videos very much. Have you ever considered reading for an audiobook company? You have a wonderful voice and your theatre training is apparent when you read quotes. Just a thought. 😊
I'm completely amazed by how many new things there are in LOTR I've never thought about before, even though they are quite obvious and even though I've read and watched this thousands of times. Every time there waits something new to discover, as I, myself, change and grow older
LOTR is about war, a spiritual war. Having converted to Catholicism this year and re-reading the Fellowship right now the counsel of Elrond hit home. Tthe LOTR is so steeped in Catholic rituals it is insane. What we do not realize when reading the LOTR is that a lot of the characters have second sight/hearing/ feeling, we would be absolutely lost in Middle Earth. We would not be able to stand against Sauron in anyway, I would actually say the Saurons of this world run circles/rings around us.
It's impressive how many videos you've already made on Lord of the Rings and Tolkien. It puts the meaning of scholarship into perspective. True dedication. Like Tolkien himself!
Currently crying while listening to this, my grandfather was in the Somme and i think its effects have echoed through the generations. "What can men do against such reckless hate?" - channel Faramir people!
I believe that, in his letters, JRRT mentions special duties he had in the UK during WWII. I seem to remember a reference to him writing information ops/propaganda, as Orwell did. I've seen other references to him serving in cryptography (a very secret program) and as an air raid warden. I can't put my finger on the reference but it would be a good subject for a research paper.
The letters killed me. I was not expecting to cry while watching this.
They absolutely brutalized me. You're not alone in the tears haha
@@Jess_of_the_Shire *HUGS*
@@Jess_of_the_Shire You did such an emotional reading that I cried a little at work lol.
Same!
The letters and the reading by Jess got me too. Well done Jess
Seeing how Tolkien made sure all 4 of the hobbits returned home safely after the war makes me cry. He would have despeerately wanted all 4 of his friends returning home after WWI. But it wasn’t meant to be. You can rest in peace, John Ronald. The literature you and your friends wanted to protect during the time of the trenches has lived on. Your name and that of your friends is immortal now, no shell will ever be able to erase your memory. And all thanks to literature, imagination and art. You made it, John Ronald. You succeeded wherre it seemed impossible
Damn, I’m crying aga😊in
Lovely, mate. Heroes and legends both live forever 🙏
I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but... I lost my best friend, who happened to be my older sister, 4 months ago... at the age of 36, her depression got the best of her. She was too sensitive and gentle for this modern world. She fought her own war, and she lives on (sometimes extremely painfully) in the memory of everyone who knew her. To me, she is a hero and her memory reminds me to be kind when it is hardest, and to never surrender to evil and greed. I have a tattoo covering my whole right arm in her memory. We should never forget people like this, for we can always work harder to be like them. Now I'm crying too 😅.
LOTR was one of the things she introduced to me btw. That line from Gandalf, "true courage is not knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one." Just encapsulates her as a person Losing the battle or making mistakes doesn't make you a coward or a loser either, as we see with Boromir and others.
Cheers my friend, hope you're having a lovely summer ☀️
@@EuTrabalhoParaSagres510sorry for your loss. 😢❤❤❤
War-altered character that resonates the most with me is Merry: His survivor's guilt over Boromir's death, his protective instinct towards Pippin, his desperate courage, and his wounding and recovery.
He's such a great character
What a legend. Me? I'm more of a Pippin to be honest 😂🍻🍕🚬
Merry's conversation with Theoden before his death and his emotional reaction afterward is just heartbreaking to me.
Tolkien may not have wanted to directly reference the World Wars in his works, but he did include his actual experiences and observations.
One thing I find very interesting is the lack of context non English Tolkien enthusiasts have about the social class that professor Tolkien belonged to. He was able to finish his schooling before going to 'the front'. The working class were never given that privilege. I imagine one of the reasons he didn't get along with other soldiers is because of this class divide. I wonder if Tolkien's reticence to accept the allegory and application of WW1 to the LOTR is because he knew he did not experience the same war as enlisted men.
Tolkien was kept for a lot of the danger not only because he was a signaler but because he was never expected to fight the same war as enlisted men.
Their poetry, Their letters and their Fantasies lost and forgotten.
About WWI and WWII? No. Informed by his personal experiences, as with any writer? Yes.
Sam was indeed the one left behind. I've said this elsewhere, but the words that have always really gotten me, the ones that have always made me tear up, are not the goodbyes, but the very last words of the book. For me, the scene that hits the hardest is when Sam stands outside of his home, which is filled with the light and warmth of his family, watching them before he goes in, torn between two worlds in that moment, and then enters to say, "Well, I'm back." Those few words say so much and are the definition of bittersweet. It kills me every time.
This was so lovely, and I'm so glad I discovered this channel today. Thank you.
Boromir is forever my favorite paladin in all of fiction. Not because he was perfect, but because he was tempted, gave in, and then redeemed himself so thoroughly by giving his life to defend his most innocent companions.
I always told people who had never read it, including my kids, that you could tell a writer's priorities and sentiments by what they focused on: in this case, Tolkien would spend 6 pages in florid description of the hobbits walking, the trees they weree surrounded by, the the leaves on the trees, the songs of the birds and their plumage, the food the hobbits ate, their banter, the songs they sang...and one brief paragraph of 2 or 3 sentences on the battle of Pelennor. I exaggerate, but barely so.
same in the hobbit, the battle of five armies is a very small part of the book (and bilbo is unconsciousness for a big chunk),so small that when I re-read it as a teenager, after reading it as a kid I completely forgot there was such a part
@@Darduel It is interesting to me that in the movie adaptation a whole one is devoted to that battle 🤔
@@gertmuller9936 well when you stretch one book into 3 movies, you can spend that time on the battle regardless of its necessity to the story , tone or pacing of the narrative lol
Younger me definitely read it because it said it was about "The War of the Ring". As I grew up, I got to appreciate how Tolkien's experiences in World War I definitely shaped it. Interesting too how even after two World Wars he was able to be horrified at the use of the atomic bombs and refer to the people gloating at the suffering in Germany as "orcs". Great video, as always, Jess!
Nowadays it’s pretty weird how the term ‘orcs’ is used. Some people use it to describe Russian soldiers in their war against Ukraine. I don’t agree with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and I’m of the opinion that Ukrainian sovereignty should be respected but I think people are going way too far by referring to Russian soldiers as orcs. Dehumanising your enemies makes genocides and other horrors more likely to happen…
@@thenetherlands5838 Well, Tolkien used it to describe people who gloated at public executions and wished harm on their enemies.
@@thenetherlands5838, I couldn't agree more with you. There are no orcs in real wars - there are just human beings, and most of them didn't choose to be warriors. And in real wars the soldiers don't have to kill orcs but other human beings.
Y'all are tripping or what? Russian army is wagging offensive war knowingly to their soldiers, who sometimes kill off entire populations of occupied settlements, if there's anything that can be called orcish, it's that.
@@thenetherlands5838 Thats the point. You dehumanize your enemy to kill them. In world war 2 it was japs and jerries, in the gulf it was the Haj. We dehumanize them because killing people isn't a normal instinct for us social humans. In the age of high explosive its shoot first or be paste. War is hell
No man is so foolish as to desire war more than peace: for in peace sons bury their fathers, but in war fathers bury their sons. - Herodotos
Some do unfortunately... Tolkien never said it, but superweapons like the atomic bomb, to me, could very well be the ring of power. Even Hitler hated them ffs!!!
Nothing I would dread more than having to bury my own child. Our daughter is a Navy Corpsman assigned to a Marine forward recon unit. Now she has health issues from exposure.
Nothing I would dread more than having to bury my own child. Our daughter is a Navy Corpsman assigned to a Marine forward recon unit. Now she has health issues from exposure.
Which character resonated most with me? As a 70 yr old male, who first read this in 1967 as a pre-teen, surprisingly, : Eowyn. her rise from dispair and depression, to wanton disregard of herself while in battle, to acceptance, warmth and peace of her growing relationship with Faramir, another wounded warrior. A commen growth among many of us.
Eowyn--the women left behind in war are often the most changed by war. I know Eowyn went to war, but her description of being left behind to die defending home is devastating.
Jess, you outdid yourself, and that's saying a lot. I'll be reviewing and thinking on this for a long time to come. And, who wouldn't shed tears?
I came here to express these same sentiments about your video, but since I would not have done it so eloquently, I’ll just comment here. Well done, Jess… Thank you
Of the LotR characters touched by the war, I most identify with (and this is not going to be a common answer, I would guess, lol) Fredegar Bolger. I am disabled and would never be called on to fight, but Fredegar played his part, and I like to think I play my own part in the world events, as do all the people who stay home, simply by carrying on, and of course by voting.
Thanks, Jess, for another excellent video!
That's a great pick!
The four hobbits were supposed to represent a spectrum of what happens to those who go to war - Pippin falls at The Battle of the Morannon in an earlier draft. Then we have Sam coming home braver, more confident, and grown to full stature. We would have had Merry coming home wiser and stronger, but also chastened, sadder, and bereft of his cousin and best friend. We have Frodo coming home so wounded and traumatized he could not find peace. And we would have had Pippin, who did not come home at all.
I've always appreciated your educated analysis, and your insights. But in this case I admire your empathy and sensitivity to the suffering disaster that is war. I see that it was difficult for you, so I doubly thank you for providing it.
One of my most beloved characters in LOTR will ever be Faramir. It is so admirable that he can resist the influence of the ring that twisted so many other characters and I really like his attitude to war and violence! In my opinion this is the only reason ever why humanity should go to war and if all people acted like Faramir, the world would be a much more peaceful and happy place.
Thanks a lot for this video, it was very interesting and gave me a lot more insight in how Tolkien perceived the wars!
I read the books and saw the movies as a young man, before going to war myself. Reading the books as an older man, after a couple of combat deployments, the books and the personal costs to the returning characters resonated in a completely different way. Tolkien knew us, was us, and was without a doubt, writing about us, the ones that came home.
If you are interested about returning WW I-veterans, read Remarque´s sequel of "Nothing new on the western front" named "The road back"
@@georgederuiter1412 That's a great book
Your tears writing the video were mirrored by my own watching. Professionalism A+ 👏
Thank you so much!
Faramir is the character that resonates mostly with my feelings. A wise and thoughtful character that desires piece instead of glory on the battle field. And one of the most moving scenes in the whole movie is when he rides out to meet the enemy when pippin sings a song for Denethor. And as you told the story about TCBS, I felled a tear as well. A touching story about a society of friends that were altered and destroyed by the horrible war.
31:52 I found myself tearing up from time to time. Your writing is quite good
Tolkien called the masters of war (specifically the atomic bomb makers) “Babel builders” that “God does not look kindly on”. I think this is why Christopher was so offended by the PJ movies that he saw as action films for boys that glorifies war. Tolkien’s “second world” life work was partly a therapeutic response to his trauma and has lovingly shared this with us. Tolkien shows us how to go to The Realm of Faerie, like Niggle in his cell, you can always escape and knowing that is very therapeutic when trapped by physical or subconscious walls.
@@ZephyrOptional , yes, you are right. Christopher Tolkien was very offended by Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy! As someone who has read the books long becore I watched the movies, but who loves both, Christopher Tolkien's rejections of the LOTR movies makes me a bit sad, and I think that Christopher Tolkien is wrong! I don't think that Jackson's depiction of the major battles are action movies for boys at all, and especially the movie version of the retreat of the Rohirrim and the subsequent Battle of Helm's Deep has been called one of the greatest battle scenes in the history of cinema! Violence and death aren't glorified at all - except maybe the contest of Legolas and Gimli re: the number of their confirmed orc killings. But Peter didn't invent this. It"s actually Tolkien's own invention. His orcs are cannon fodder for his heroes, and the orcs can be killed by the heroes in droves without having to feel guilty about it! Tolkien dehumanized these sentient beings who were used by Saruman and Sauron. As much as I love Tolkien's LOTR - l never liked that orcs were irredeemably evil who b
needed to be eradicated.
@@sabineb.5616 sorry, I got to the point where you said Christopher Tolkien’s opinion was “wrong” and tuned out. Sorry again, but from a scholarly perspective, your opinion, or Jackson’s for that matter, just doesn’t weigh anything against John Ronald Reuel or Christopher Tolkien’s in relation to the core themes of his work, although you’re free to believe whatever you want. I know a lot of PJ moves fans have a rather stunted perspective on the complexities of the Legendarium. Don’t get me wrong, I love the PJ movies for what they are but for someone who has been reading Tolkien for over 3 decades, I understand (like Christopher) the PJ movies missed the Tolkien boat many ways and glorifying war is just one of them.
@@ZephyrOptional "tuning out" before you even finish reading somebodies points before you decide to discredit them seems pretty stupid...... From a scholarly perspective.
His points are valid even if they upset you because you hold Tolkeins work dearly.
@@Shiftarus I’ll apologize to you too but will respectful decline conversation about Tolkien with anyone who argues against what Tolkien is on record saying about how we should understand the Legendarium in regards to artistic adaption because they like PJs battle scenes. And when I say Tolkien, that inseparably includes Christopher too. For me, the adaptations are fun but totally irrelevant to understanding what makes Tolkien great. You can enjoy the spectacle while I’ll study its true meaning, unless the spectral is part of the meaning, I have no time for it. There is a lot of pointless & inaccurate spectacle in the PJ films.
@@ZephyrOptionaldude get your head out of your butt
Theoden is my favorite character. His speech upon the pelenor fields is truly moving. It is one of the best speeches in the book hands down.
It only occurred to me while watching: the Shire is a Thankful Village. Of the tens of thousands of towns and villages in England and Wales, there are only 53 known where no villagers were killed in WW1. There are only 12 in France, and none in Scotland.
The term was first coined in the 1930s, so Tolkein probably heard it. Even rarer are the doubly thankful villages, where all the villagers who fought in WW2 also returned.
Thank you, I had no knowledge of this term. 😊
Well I wasn't expecting to cry while doing my dishes and listening to this in the background. But I don't think I can ever get through Frodo's quote at the end of the Grey Havens chapter without a tear.
Your very professional almost-but-not-quite-crying had me sobbing. Thank you for this beautiful video. 💜
Alright I am crying now. My wife and I are both children of veterans of WW II. As the only son of one who came back, and now being the father of two sons, both of whom idealized their grandfathers. Your comments on how war permeates the lives of the survivors, and their descendants struck true. Between my LOTR film props and my sons collections of memorabilia from WWI and WWII, we live in a constant state of remembrance. Thank you for your wonderful content. Thank you too for bringing tears to my eyes all over again. As a Catholic I am sure that the TCBS’s are all smiling down on you. ❤
This is easily my favourite video you've done. I think it's the best analysis of Boromir, Faramir and Theoden I've ever encountered, and the revelation of the TCBS and their importance to the development of Middle-earth is profound to me. It feels inevitable that there were four members of the TCBS, and that four hobbits left the shire. You didn't cry tears recording the video, but you elicited them in my viewing. Thank you.
Simply the best way to start a Friday evening - and getting better every week 🙂
The focus of war in LOTR, the Silmarillion and other Tolkien works makes me double happy for Tales of the Shire - a no stakes game celebrating the lives of those simple folk who love stories, family, and good tilled earth.
This was your most heartfelt video, and my favorite (so far). Well done Jess!
I'm very happy to see you reach 140k subs! I think it's indisputable that many aspects Tolkien's war experience made their way into the story. From broader themes such as the desire to destroy the amorphous threat of "evil," which can never truly be vanquished by any mortal power, to the effect of this struggle on the littlest common man, who thinks himself safe to ignore it in his green corner of the world, the truths Tolkien learned from the World War are ingrained in the books' themes. As you rightly say, he often breaks down the romanticized idea of war, but not in a cynical "modern" way, which commonly concludes that war is a pointless waste and there is no "right" side. Instead, he insists that the fight must still continue, even though it can seem hopeless, and that even the most ordinary person can make a great difference. Thanks for inspiring thought on this important topic!
Thanks so much! I love the point that he wasn't breaking the war down in a cynical way. He understood that sometimes war must be, but there was no need to glorify it
@@Jess_of_the_Shire War is glorified far too often in popular media!
Of course it is. You have Frodo the upper class officer and Sam the lower class.
You have Esprit de Corps
You have “never being able to come home again”
You have “all wish it would not have happened in their lifetimes” and the old burying the young.
You have the soldiers leaving as children and coming home as adults who become community leaders. You have frodos pain that never goes away
It’s just not an allegory for Ww2 and Sauron is not Hitler
This. Exactly this.
Thank you for doing this subject- if you look at various artists across all media who came out of WWI and WWII, it's a fascinating area of study. The scale of horror that came about with modern warfare in that era is tragic and yet it motivated a lot of talented people to make something out of their experiences. I love your channel!
The art made in the 20th century is truly incredible!
I'd like to believe Tolkien sneaked in an autobiographical detail when he describes Frodo's primary role in the Battle of Bywater as preventing wrathful hobbits from murdering their captives. Soldiers of all sides during WWI rarely troubled themselves to take prisoners. I want to think Tolkien had the chance to keep the brutality down, if only in a few small cases.
Given that Tolkien spoke German, it does seem likely he would have been instrumental in dealing with prisoners.
There's actually an anecdote from the Carpenter Biography of a time when Tolkien brought a drink of water to a German prisoner, and spoke German with him a bit (apparently the guy corrected his pronunciation haha)
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I wonder if Tolkien truly struggled with German or if his indecipherable voice happened to butcher the pronunciation of every language haha.
Thank you for all your incredible content and touching, passionate delivery 💖
You have the gift of storytelling. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Thanks, Jess. All of your videos have been great. This was the most moving.
Sorry for the multiple posts!
Last time I was this early it was the 2nd age
I can't explain how much I love your deep dives into the Lord of the Rings. I have read this book since I was 12. Many people like Gandalf and Aragorn and Sam. They're great characters, but for me, the truly great and fascinating characters are the ones who struggle with the temptation of the Ring.
I cried so much WATCHING this video. Thank you, Jess
i love when you do videos about the inspirations behind middle earth and the characters in it. thank you for the great content
Tolkien would probably frown on the notion that LotR is *about* WW1, but it's hard to imagine that his own experience with this war in particular didn't mould his view on wars in general.
Excellent analysis and beautifully said! Boromir’s stubbornness and pride reminds me of the generals of the Great War. Relying on old Napoleonic tactics and later barbarism. To try and win against the force that is industrialized warfare. A new evil that humanity faces for the first time in such a grand scale. It becomes even more evident with the emergence of the Second World War. That we cannot fight industrialized warfare with industrialized warfare and hope to truly win long term. And the One Ring, to me, mirrors this notion.
I liked your take on the war altered characters and also pick Theoden. It’s awful to say but there are so many good books as a result of World War One & Two. I am a huge fan of T.H. White’s Once & Future King, which has characters that reflect the old and new thinking you spoke of. T.H. White wasn’t a soldier but he was a pacifist who recognized how dangerous Hitler was and wrote the book as his response to war. I was fortunate to have a teacher that recommended that book to me in high school. I read so many other books as a result, including Lord of the Rings. I’ve read some very compelling books by veterans/soldiers. I met one a few years ago at an authors/readers retreat in Cannon Beach, Oregon that shared a vision he had that helped him write his story and publish it. He in turn encouraged me to do the same.
Actually, I thought you did pretty well. The Great War is such a vast subject that it can't really be done justice in a thirty-odd minute video. One point you made was of Tolkien's desire to be in the same unit as his friends when he deployed. That was in keeping with the British War Office's offer to keep volunteers of a given locality in the same unit. This proved to be a rather ghastly affair, as all these "pals" volunteered, trained, and marched off together....only to be all killed together.
Yeah, that is a terrible reality. It's good to have friends until those friends are lost
Frodo is a shell-shocked veteran, laden with PTSD. It might be the first such example in fantasy literature.
The aspect that strikes me most strongly at the end of the book, is Frodo's refusal to carry a sword, his horror at killing. I'm sure it's intended by Tolkien as a statement, but is entirely left out by Peter Jackson.
Thanks! I so look forward each week to your commentaries, this one was very special! Well done. "A separate video on the TCBS" Yes please.
Harry Turtledove did a six-book fantasy series usually called the 'Darkness' series (starts with Into the Darkness, etc.) which is literally WW2 in a fantasy world. As Turtledove is a pretty in-depth Tolkien fan, I always wondered if he was inspired by Tolkien's letter about how if LOTR had been based on WW2, the Ring would have been used against Sauron and none of the great powers would care what happened to the Hobbits.
I know nothing of H. Turtledove but it fascinates me to hear of Tolkien's response. To me, the Ring of Power always signified his subliminal awareness of the striving to create the ultimate weapon. In point of fact, the military were against its deployment - it was indeed the politicians who sent the atomic bombs to Japan.
All your videos are so delightful and insightful!
one of the most interesting things I noticed was how often big important battles happen off to the side. There is a lot of climactic deaths, and a lot of important moments that just aren't narratively satisfying. Like the battle of 5 armies. Half the cast dies and we barely get a description of it. Or Gandalf vs Sauron, or Gandalf vs the Necromancer, or Gandalf vs the Balrog (lots of Gandalf fights). We have these huge climactic fights that we just... don't get to see.
War is the same way. You just hear about things that happen. Friends go off to fight and never come back. Huge battles occur that you never see. It's anticlimactic because that is how war really is. Life isn't a story, sometimes things simply aren't poetic.
I love LOTR. It is the most relatable down-to-earth fantasy sword-and-sorcery story ever written. But my favourite character is Tom Bombadil perhaps because he is so separated from the horrors of the story.
Damn I got the chills when she read Boromir’s words “For I am too strong for you, halfling!”
It's such an intense scene!
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Ever looked into doing narration Jess?😄Probably be very good at it
One of the parallels I noticed is the way Tolkien treats industry - not necessarily bad per se (just look at the Dwarves) but that its power can be villainously used to burn up nature and turn it into weapons of war the way Saruman does. In World War One the incessant shelling produced by industry transformed any natural landscape of trees and fields into splintered matchsticks and muddy craters where nothing could survive. I feel that must have influenced his opinion on the topic at least somewhat.
The battlefields as well as the home front. Many are the anecdotes from soldiers of the Great War returning home after years to find that home is almost unrecognizable; changing landscapes, changing social morés, etc.
Excited to watch! I really appreciate your content. It's nice to get your insightful analysis considering most channels just recount lore. Your specialized outfits and backgrounds are also lovely!
Awww you're too kind! Thank you so much for watching!
You have the most interesting studio! I love your wall art and bookshelf! I love your viewpoint on the books. We feel the same!
Thank you so much! It's quite cozy out there
17:05 this passage makes me want to reach back across time and give Tolkien a good hug
Jess, I also wept over these stories and in your video. You have an amazing understanding of Tolkien and storytelling at whole. I've recently found your channel and am ever the gladder for it. I hope your day is happy and Hobbit-y as well. Thank you.
You are an excellent analyst and a wonderful storyteller. Keep up the good work!
This is very sincere and touchy video. I certainly didn't expect to cry today but here we are. Thank you, Jess, for this beautiful video, keep going!
Thanks!
I think Eomer resonates with me the most. I'm not sure why, except maybe his innate pragmatism with that tiny but significant nugget of hope burning at its heart appeals to me.
Jess, your voice broke just a little, and my throat closed up a bit. Kudos to you, again, for intelligent, passionate story telling. Thank you. To answer your question, I'm of the Boromir persuasion, but I'm old enough to know that if your tool is a hammer, not everything is a nail.
I've got Sharpe's vibe, during the deleted scene, where Boromir retakes Osgiliat. Sean Bean is such an incredible actor
Its interesting as well to note how the meaning of the story becomes evermore profound as one gets older. The collection of years adds depth and understanding.
Your videos are consistently good, but this one was a step above. Well done and thank you.
You almost made me cry, what a beautiful video.
This brought me to tears… thank you.
Wow, this touched me deeply, I realize I am exactly like Boromir and my younger brother is Faramir, how life can imitate art is truly astonishing
In my reading it's about the intersection of class, societies and war, specifically the old aristocrat dynasties of Europe and the emerging class consciousness of the labour movements, trade union power, bolshevism, and how the affable gentlemen feared a changing future
In Boromir's defence, if you wield the One Ring, you are master of the Nine Ringwraiths including the Witchking... that's very tempting indeed.
Very touching video and I am looking forward to your video delving deeper into the Tea Club Barrovian Society, especially the only other surviving member: Christopher Wiseman. I am very curious about him and what became of him after the first world war.
Thanks for this thoughtful and touching video. Certainly Tolkien described the horrors of the war while keeping his fantasy away from any allegory.
I not crying you are!!! 😭😭😭
Loved the video, always good to see how powerful a work of art can be.
Jess, this was such a good video. Maybe one of your best. I kept getting chills and even teared up.
Thank you, I can't say more through the tears.
Thank you so much for watching!
This was very touching. Thank you for the video.
Loved this coverage and can’t wait for the TCBS deep dive❤
Faramir has always been my favorite.
Needed to hear this today, thank you
Wonderful post, especially the background/story of the TCBS and how (in my mind, anyway) it influenced JRR Tolkien's seminal works. Thank you again, Lady of the Shire!
I enjoy your videos very much. Have you ever considered reading for an audiobook company? You have a wonderful voice and your theatre training is apparent when you read quotes. Just a thought. 😊
That was lovely to listen to, thank you.
Cloudy eyes after that final letter from G.B.S. got to me. As always, thank you for sharing.
I'm completely amazed by how many new things there are in LOTR I've never thought about before, even though they are quite obvious and even though I've read and watched this thousands of times.
Every time there waits something new to discover, as I, myself, change and grow older
great video Jess. Thanks for uploading.
Thank you Jess, one of your best.
18:57 The screener "Please dont demonetize me" is too funny😅
Great video. Well done jess.
Thank you for the work you do 🙏
Excellent analysis, reduced me to tears, just as the Trilogy did.
Another excellent analysis, thank you.
LOTR is about war, a spiritual war. Having converted to Catholicism this year and re-reading the Fellowship right now the counsel of Elrond hit home. Tthe LOTR is so steeped in Catholic rituals it is insane. What we do not realize when reading the LOTR is that a lot of the characters have second sight/hearing/ feeling, we would be absolutely lost in Middle Earth. We would not be able to stand against Sauron in anyway, I would actually say the Saurons of this world run circles/rings around us.
It's impressive how many videos you've already made on Lord of the Rings and Tolkien. It puts the meaning of scholarship into perspective. True dedication. Like Tolkien himself!
I learned about the LoTR from my older brother. He took it as an allegory of the West vs the East.
Those letters absolutely slayed me. 😢
Wow, moving and inspirational!
An incredible and very touching video. Thank you.
Currently crying while listening to this, my grandfather was in the Somme and i think its effects have echoed through the generations. "What can men do against such reckless hate?" - channel Faramir people!
I would absolutely love an entire reading of the lord of the rings by you
I believe that, in his letters, JRRT mentions special duties he had in the UK during WWII. I seem to remember a reference to him writing information ops/propaganda, as Orwell did. I've seen other references to him serving in cryptography (a very secret program) and as an air raid warden. I can't put my finger on the reference but it would be a good subject for a research paper.
A lovely video. Thank you.