That's what I love about engineering, your always learning, it puts a smile on your face It helps to start in a toolroom as you get to learn loads more And I can tell you I have met some very smart people over the years, who are greatly underrated Cheers
An important thing is that this requires the circumference of the gear to be evenly divisible with the thread spacing on the tap - else you get overlapping threads in the gear.
That's what I was going to ask. If its a 1mm pitch tap the circumference of disc should not be decimal point. Should this be at the start of machining or what?
Hidy. I've been doing machinist / tool & die and job-shop work all my life 60 +/- years...! and I've never seen, nor thought of; this concept! Thank you, SO MUCH, for demonstrating this concept! And thanks for making this video! It blew this old man's mind...!
Been in machine shops since 16 I'm 53 now and it's the first time I've seen this. Goes without saying you can always learn more. Thanks that was cool 😎
Interesting how many professionals have not seen this done. Iv'e never touched a lathe and iv'e now seen it done multiple times. How else would one do this? Or is it just lack of interest of this specific product that makes you guys not see how this is done?
When working for my uncles in their small shop we used to manufacture small worm gears for a company that used 1/2-13 threaded rod to make their worms. We cut the gears on a Barber-Coleman #3 gear hobbing machine using a 1/2-13 tap. Obviously you need to calculate the proper diameter of the gear blank but using only the downfeed of the machine it produced beautiful throated worm gears by the hundreds. Nice video.
@@李孝民 We converted the 1/2-13 UNC threaded rod to the comparable diametral pitch which is 40.83 DP. Using standard worm gear calculations for the 100 tooth gear (number of teeth/diametral pitch) give a value of 2.449 inches for the pitch diameter. The worm gear in this case was throated so standards call for the throat diameter to be the pitch diameter + (2 X addendum). As this was a non-critical application we chose to treat the addendum as one half of the whole depth of the thread (in this case .0472 inches) and add that to the pitch diameter. The outside diameter of the worm gear is pitch diameter + (3 X addendum) so the finished bronze gear blank ended up being 2.520 inches. OD = PD + (3 X addendum) Hope this was not too confusing.
Fascinating! It is also interesting to note the 50 cycle strobe from presumably fluorescent lighting which is why tungsten machine lighting is favoured. Excellent ingenuity!
Primitive??? I've been a machinist for 20 years and have never seen such madness. Nor would I have ever thought of it. I'm gonna have to try it myself in the near future. Thanks for posting.
Hi. Did you (or somebody) tried the same with trapezoid tap? When I found this video, I realized this could be the way to make my own thread chasing dial gear.
@Ol' Camo Somemthing that I have figured out over the yers is that there are many different kinds of machinist. You have folks that make one off parts, they tend to have tight tolerances and can take more time to achieve prefection and people that are what I call production machinists who focus more on speed and just stay between the linse as perfection only adds cost. I find that someting these two groups but heads a bit. There is also a line between manual and CNC machinists or even mill and lathe machinists, they to can be a bit tribal. Point is that if your making parts for a living your a machinist hell you could only use a file to make em and still call yourself a machinist the only real question is are you a good one and even that could be subjective.
This is what's great about this channel... you never know what you're going to get.... sometimes electronics.... sometimes chemistry... today some lathe work.... :)
Well done. I have been in the machining trade for well on 35 years and this is the first time I have seen this. Great job. I'll be trying this one myself.
Buenos en 43 años que llevo veo esto muy bien pero seria para el puro bronce porque dañar esa macho como llamamos aqui en venezuela en hierro no vale la pena pero me gusto la demostracion muy buena se haria en bronce y en aluminio jajajajaja
How would you ensure that the point where the threads meet on the new piece are equal to the rest of the threads? It seems as you cut deeper into the material, the point where the threads are cut at the deepest point may not be equal given the circumference. In essence, the point where the new teeth begin to be cut off by the tap
Out-f**kin-standing!! I would have never thought of using that setup to cut a gear...and yet, with the center keeping the tap from deflecting, it makes perfect sense. I'm amazed by your machining cleverness.👍👍👍
@@sinisterhipp0 I came looking for the answer here to so the round has to be the correct size , or you will have to watch until the threads come together .
The pure genius of this method is that if you use an M6 tap you can go ahead and cut down an M6 bolt and no need to machine a endless screw, unless you want brass on brass. Bravo that man!!!!
WHERE there is a need-----THANKYOU. I repair antique and classic auto parts for a living. Worm gears are used on window regulators and windshield wiper motors. THIS is a fantastic technique that puts repairs back into my hands. Thankyou, Jim Simpson ODD Parts Fabrication.
Hello! I think other taps with thread and pitches could be used, the smaller pitch the easier work.. I needed as big pitch as possible for that gear, so I use M12.. The only trouble is to count diameter of the gear accurately to have the teeth evenly placed, without a gap..
Primitive? No. Perhaps novel. It's the same thing all Craftsmen of any trade have ever done. Force a rigidly held form tool into a ridgedly held workpiece. We machinist just like to spin things to get more complex functions. This was a beautiful video. Thank you!
I made a 350 teeth alu worm wheel for astro use some years back.I paid great attention to perpendicularity and to keep vibrations under control.I used a ball bearing cell which the toothwheel rotated on, i fed aprox. 1/3 of the diameter of the actual taper(cutter) and technical alcohol as lubricant.No oil when working with alu!
I used the same method to make 12" worm gears for my telescope, using 1/4" 6061-T6 Alm plate on a 6" lathe. The key, is to have the center bore first, the hob the teeth. As I was not after a specific number of teeth, I just hobbed until full depth was reached, and no partial teeth remain.
Well that's nifty. The engineers are always asking us to do nutty things with little to no proper tooling. Always good to learn something new. This is going to be categorized under what I call "old guy tricks" I've learned many many things like this from guys close to retirement many who I have since replaced at various jobs over the years. Also handy if I ever need a small worm gear made at home with my little hobby lathe. I'm sure I could figure it out.
using this method you are machining the gear with varying pitch diameter because you are using the cross feed. What I did was to machine the od of the blank with a groove matching the id of the tap and a circumference which is a multiple of the pitch of the tap, Then bring it in with cross feed onto the end of the taper of the tap. Then use the saddle to feed the gear onto the tap. The cut is done always at the same diameter on the wheel.
@@rominhawk3949 Hello sir, I read your comment with interest. I am passionate about this subject, so have you managed to get more information or have you done some trials leading to success. For my part, I am looking for the method allowing to obtain a precise number of teeth on the crown, for example: 40dts and not 41 or 43 dts. In addition, not understanding English, I do not master his method. Could you answer me please. P.K.
@@jforrestal365 Hello sir, I read your comment with interest. I am passionate about this subject, so have you managed to get more information or have you done some trials leading to success. For my part, I am looking for the method allowing to obtain a precise number of teeth on the crown, for example: 40dts and not 41 or 43 dts. In addition, not understanding English, I do not master his method. Could you answer me please. P.K.
The pitch of the thread is the same at the edge of the gear as that at the bottom of the cut but they are on different diameters. Something must give! Only a small part of the corresponding screw thread can be in contact.
Completamente de acuerdo, el bronce en sus distintos porcentajes de aleación permite ser mecanizado sin añadir lubricante debido a la estructura que forman, los metales y los no metales, permitiendo que el arranque de viruta requiera poco esfuerzo por parte de la herramienta . Por otro lado la fundición, posee intersticiones de grafito, que es un lubricante natural
i saw this video years ago and thought it was very cool. then needed to make a worm gear and couldn't find the video to set up my lathe. it's getting down loaded this time. thanks for sharing.
Ich habe schon mehrere Videos zu diesem Thema gesehen, aber dieses ist ein Augen- und Ohrenschmaus: wunderschön anzusehen und die reinen Werkgeräusche erfreuen mich ganz besonders, weil sie nicht durch irgendeine Hintergrund-"Musik" verdorben wurden.
and still i am always wondering how the start and the end of the gear groves will come to a magic overlap - especially because the diameter of the work piece will start to shrink during machining. (same wondering when it comes to grid pattern engraving on a late using a set of rolling engraver wheels put with some pressure onto the work piece...)
You are right. It seems like magic. I think the diameter has a lot to do with it. The diameter would have to be divisible to the thread pitch; I think or something like that Joe Pieczynski has an alright video on knurling. It deals with timing of knurls, and the diameter affecting the final outcome. I know its not the same just some food for thought.
This is a very good way of making a Worm & Gear, the really neat thing is it always seems to sort itself out as regards pitch, or at least it always has for me, I have used this method on a wide variety of sizes, always works.
Were you making a new worm + wheel system or doing a repair for a current system ? And can you always use a tap or do they make specialist cutting tools for this ?
Am I right in assuming that the diameter of the piece must match or be an exact multiplication of the tooth per inch of the tap? And if that is measured on the outer diameter and That the thread spacing must technically be closer or tighter on the inside of the concave?
Don't knock the method if you haven't tried it, because it works very well. For a more robust gear, use an ACME thread tap! Or even better, make a properly proportioned involute (straight-sided teeth!) hob. Relief is only required on the tooth OD. The concern with this method is getting the right number of teeth, as the number can vary by +/- one tooth. To make an accurate worm gear with the required tooth count, such as I made for an indexing head, gashing of the teeth will be required with very accurate spacing and depth of the individual gashes. This would be followed by the Free Hobbing process, where the gear blank turns freely, driven by the hob itself. Worked out very well for me.
I think a standard bolt used to drive this gear would strip the gear quickly if subjected to any amout of torque. Most bolts onlt have 60% thread engagement. If you threaded a rod of the correct diameter you could get the thread contact percentage up quite a bit and have more consistent threads that wouldn't chew up the gear as quickly.
This is great! I am a little confused though. Doesn't the effective pitch diameter, and therefore the number of teeth, change as you feed the blank in?
+fragwits Totally different situation. When tapping, the pitch diameter is the fixed and the tap advances in a line at a rate of one tooth per revolution. In this application the gear blank rotates at one tooth per revolution of the tap at the circumference, but the circumference (and therefore the number of teeth per revolution) changes as the cut gets deeper so it will take fewer cuts/teeth to make one revolution of the blank.
Clever use of a screw tap. I myself have 35 years of mechanics and never had seen this trick. But you had to calculate the primitive diameter of the blank, to get it right. Maybe using a tap with spiral grooves the cut is smoother?
Any diameter will be fine as you will just grind it until everything fits, if you chose wrong diameter you will just need more time. also he is not moving everything up down so he got worm gear.
Blank diameter is figured as follows: (thread pitch) x teeth number desired divided by Pi (3.1416). Example if you used a 1/2 x 13 tap and wanted a 72 tooth gear. Ex: .0769" Thread Pitch x 72 teeth = 5.5368 divided by Pi = 1.762"
Excellent idea for meeting the requirement of small gear pensions & This is very much helpful to manufacturers without having a expensive gear cutting machine !
Well done, although brass needs no lubricant and using such can, and did, cause the chips to stick to both the tap and the work piece causing issues. I saw you were using a brush to deal with the chips sticking to the brass gear; that's not necessary if you don't use lubricant. Also the tap, as with any tools used on brass, needs to be brand new and sharp, i.e. never used on steel. This advice comes from a Trade Qualified Fitter and Turner (Mechanical Engineer). Great job, great vid :).
Константин, раньше. Я такой способ видел в какой-то технической книге 70-72 года выпуска. Там же и приводились формулы для расчета наружного диаметра нарезаемой втулки в зависимости от шага резьбы. Они несложные и понятные. К сожалению это некая эрзац червячная передача. Подобие.)))) Для несильно нагруженых механизмом пойдет.
Zdravím. Nezkoušel jste podobnou legraci s trapézovým závitníkem - a zístkat evolventní ozubení? Přemýšlím o tom že bych si zkusil odvalit kolečko pro závitové hodinky.
I used to grind gears at caterpillar, and on a larger scale, its hobbing, just on a much smaller scale. If you were to start at the leading edge of the work piece, and run all the way down to the bottom edge, it would actually be a decent hobby grade straight cut gear, run multiples at different diameters and you could, theoretically, build an entire gearbox.
Do you have to start with a blank of a precise diameter to avoid a mismatch at the start and end of each revolution - or does it just kind of work out? This is really fascinating. I found this by searching for "hobbing wooden gears.". Using a tap as a job cutter is genius BTW. Thanks for sharing.
Только не токаря, а фрезеровщики. Работа для зубофрезерного станка, просто в данном случае в качестве фрезы - метчик, а фрезеровка выполняется на токарном станке
The OD of the part has to be figured out by the number of teeth on the tap. Number of teeth divided into the circumference. You play around with the diameter and teeth until it is even, no over lapping.
I've cut a few gears during my many years as a machinist . I gotta hand it to you, this was a great idea and really inspired me to open my mind an think outside the box. Great video
Would it not be more important to have the exact diameter at finish to match the even numbers of teeth per inch at the end when the tap is 50% of its diameter (i.e. it’s radius) cut into the circumference of the wheel? If it’s say 20 tpi tap - then your diameter needs to be 22/7 x (X) - radius of the tap -= say 40 teeth. So you need X value to end up 2 inches long circumference to get 40 teeth / 20 tpi = 2 inches circumference. Then you know the inside circumference must = 2 inches & the starting outside diameter must be 22/7 x diameter and allow the extra 1/2 of tap diameter ie tap radius? That should give starting diameter to end up with 40 teeth on 2 inch long circumference? Man that made my brain hurt. I shoulda paid more attention in math at school. There was moths flew out my ears, I disturbed their resting place in my brain after those neuron brain synapses haven’t been used for 45+ years. I could be wrong - that was just a mental arithmetic attempt, I didn’t check it with a calculator or anything, so don’t take my word for it.
Pure luck if after 1 rev, the teeth marks matched up. You could end up with half teeth and machine everything off. Good idea but for accurate work ie meshing gears, the work piece has to be driven in synch with the cutter.
Igotknobblies The method demonstrated is called free bobbing. The workpiece is forced to rotate by the helix angle on the flank of the cutter. Works fine for light power transmission, probably not consistent enough for accurate positioning.
webtoedman yes, I quite understand the theory behind free hobbing, like I said, it's pure luck if the first and last tooth of the revolution of the workpiece are a perfect tooth distance apart, and like I said, if they're out by 50%, you could end up chopping all the teeth off.
PaintHerWhite but wich diameter the initial or the final? I think he calculated the initial, because the center of the gear seems a little flat than the borders.
I agree that it is clever, however, there is a problem with it. The deeper you go, the smaller the circumference, and the gear teeth begin to overlap. That is why the bottom of the groove is so much smoother in both gears shown than the rest of the thread. If you would run a bolt in the groove, it looks like might only engage properly near the two rims, since they were both machined at a constant circumferential pitch. Would you need to sandwich the bolt between two of these worm gears to prevent slippage? How effective is the engagement?
I used to do this decades ago, as a Machinist I have done many jobs and a few times i made my own pillow blocks for inline portable boring in the field for heavy equipment repair. I made these big and small for perfect machine radius`s, I made fixtures to hold high speed or insert tooling.
Thanks, this video appeared just at the right time for me. A simple jig for my mini mil or mini lathe and I should be able to cut a large worm gear. Thanks again. Now then, I wonder if a matching die could cut the matching worm?
Hi, just determine the number of teeth and the pitch and You will get the perimeter. e.g. 50 teeth 1.5mm pitch = 75mm perimeter. perimeter = 2 * pi *r, so radius = perimeter / 2 / pi
The gear hobbing set-up described herein is neither new nor primitive. In fact it is described in the bible of milling machines, published by the Cincinati Milling Machine Company in the middle of the last century. The basic set-up is named free-hobbing, and is useful only for worm gears. When cutting small gears by this method, it is best to make 3 or 4 gear blanks because the number of teeth produced may vary by +/- 1 tooth! This may be ok for some purposes, but if an accurate gear with a certain number of teeth is required, the process needs a little refinement. I've used this refined method to hob a worm gear for a small indexing head, which turned out very well indeed.
I've been a machinist for over 40 years and this is the first time I've seen anyone cut a gear with a tap. Well done, sir!
This is not a gear
It's just a gear shape for fun
It has no module . Just a shape
@@alsalehahmadcom it's a worm gear
That's what I love about engineering, your always learning, it puts a smile on your face
It helps to start in a toolroom as you get to learn loads more
And I can tell you I have met some very smart people over the years, who are greatly underrated
Cheers
H6fff
YES!!!!!
One of my coworkers explained this technique to me a few months back but this is the first time seeing it done. Really neat stuff, thanks for sharing
,
Freaking beautiful I can't believe it's been 7 years and I haven't stumbled across this kind of machinist porn
Beautiful! I respect the brush off verses the air nozzle for a more controlled interim clean up job. Good insight.
I agree a lot with the "Brush off" instead of air, i cant remember why but i was told it can be dangerous too by my tech teacher in high school.
The risks are air embolism with air lines also chips being blown into eyes or other places where you don't want them to be they can destroy DRO scales
An important thing is that this requires the circumference of the gear to be evenly divisible with the thread spacing on the tap - else you get overlapping threads in the gear.
That's what I was going to ask. If its a 1mm pitch tap the circumference of disc should not be decimal point. Should this be at the start of machining or what?
Hidy. I've been doing machinist / tool & die and job-shop work all my life 60 +/- years...! and I've never seen, nor thought of; this concept! Thank you, SO MUCH, for demonstrating this concept! And thanks for making this video! It blew this old man's mind...!
Thanks. ...good video....my name is ajay I am in Indian. ..
Been in machine shops since 16 I'm 53 now and it's the first time I've seen this. Goes without saying you can always learn more. Thanks that was cool 😎
Interesting how many professionals have not seen this done. Iv'e never touched a lathe and iv'e now seen it done multiple times. How else would one do this? Or is it just lack of interest of this specific product that makes you guys not see how this is done?
Well I doubt I will ever need a worm gear but you just opened my mind to a whole new area of machining ideas
When working for my uncles in their small shop we used to manufacture small worm gears for a company that used 1/2-13 threaded rod to make their worms. We cut the gears on a Barber-Coleman #3 gear hobbing machine using a 1/2-13 tap. Obviously you need to calculate the proper diameter of the gear blank but using only the downfeed of the machine it produced beautiful throated worm gears by the hundreds. Nice video.
how to fix the gear diameters For the screw of pitch?
@@李孝民 We converted the 1/2-13 UNC threaded rod to the comparable diametral pitch which is 40.83 DP. Using standard worm gear calculations for the 100 tooth gear (number of teeth/diametral pitch) give a value of 2.449 inches for the pitch diameter. The worm gear in this case was throated so standards call for the throat diameter to be the pitch diameter + (2 X addendum). As this was a non-critical application we chose to treat the addendum as one half of the whole depth of the thread (in this case .0472 inches) and add that to the pitch diameter. The outside diameter of the worm gear is pitch diameter + (3 X addendum) so the finished bronze gear blank ended up being 2.520 inches. OD = PD + (3 X addendum) Hope this was not too confusing.
@@williamstyers4264 o
A vacuumcleaner will be helpfull ☝️🧐😉
std. sizie of 1/2 "bsw thread is 12 thread in a inch.
Fascinating! It is also interesting to note the 50 cycle strobe from presumably fluorescent lighting which is why tungsten machine lighting is favoured. Excellent ingenuity!
Надо было уточнить еще, что диаметр заготовки должен четко подходить под шаг резьбы, иначе на 2 круге новая резьба испортит старую
Дак резьбы на внутреннем диаметре и нет , её съело.
@@fffffoxik да ты не понял.
Скорее не диаметр, а длина окружности была кратна шагу резьбы.
@@ilsur16 вот вот
Зависит углубление
Primitive??? I've been a machinist for 20 years and have never seen such madness. Nor would I have ever thought of it. I'm gonna have to try it myself in the near future. Thanks for posting.
Hi. Did you (or somebody) tried the same with trapezoid tap? When I found this video, I realized this could be the way to make my own thread chasing dial gear.
Hogy jön ki az osztás milyen kerületen jönnek ki a fogak?
@Ol' Camo Somemthing that I have figured out over the yers is that there are many different kinds of machinist. You have folks that make one off parts, they tend to have tight tolerances and can take more time to achieve prefection and people that are what I call production machinists who focus more on speed and just stay between the linse as perfection only adds cost. I find that someting these two groups but heads a bit.
There is also a line between manual and CNC machinists or even mill and lathe machinists, they to can be a bit tribal.
Point is that if your making parts for a living your a machinist hell you could only use a file to make em and still call yourself a machinist the only real question is are you a good one and even that could be subjective.
@@derangedspyder I'm a "one off, tight tolerance, CNC Lathe machinist". We tend to get along with everyone, lol
@@attilacsizmadia9419 Menetemelkedés + kör kerület
This is what's great about this channel... you never know what you're going to get.... sometimes electronics.... sometimes chemistry... today some lathe work.... :)
Brilliant. And you can use a bolt with a matching thread pitch as the tap for your worm gear. Which im sure you know. Very nice
Nobody:
RUclips: *Ah, yes, perfect time to recommend to everyone a 2012 video about gearmaking.*
Why did I never think of this? This is brilliant. I'm off to buy some standard acme taps now.
I like these machinists videos because there's no politics involved and I'm actually learning some tricks.
Спасибо Ютуб что не даёшь скучать ночью! 🤣🤣
Это самое необходимое видео восмилетней давности. 🤣
))))
Ага,и мне в рекомендациях попал😁
@@garri2002 и мне😁
Dude I have done stuff on lathes that would baffle most machinists, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen done on a lathe! Great job!
Such as?
Well done. I have been in the machining trade for well on 35 years and this is the first time I have seen this. Great job. I'll be trying this one myself.
Buenos en 43 años que llevo veo esto muy bien pero seria para el puro bronce porque dañar esa macho como llamamos aqui en venezuela en hierro no vale la pena pero me gusto la demostracion muy buena se haria en bronce y en aluminio jajajajaja
How would you ensure that the point where the threads meet on the new piece are equal to the rest of the threads? It seems as you cut deeper into the material, the point where the threads are cut at the deepest point may not be equal given the circumference. In essence, the point where the new teeth begin to be cut off by the tap
I have no idea what you just made, or why I watched a 9 min video on it, but holy crap well done. That's damn clever. New use for taps.
Fantastické niečo! Ste skutočný majster svojho remesla! Ďakujem!
As a full time Machinist I love watching these videos I never tire of engineering always fascinated and by what you can learn too. Thank you
Out-f**kin-standing!! I would have never thought of using that setup to cut a gear...and yet, with the center keeping the tap from deflecting, it makes perfect sense. I'm amazed by your machining cleverness.👍👍👍
The gear pitch and circumference ratio should match, or else the meeting point at the end of first round will not match...
@@sinisterhipp0 I came looking for the answer here to so the round has to be the correct size , or you will have to watch until the threads come together .
The pure genius of this method is that if you use an M6 tap you can go ahead and cut down an M6 bolt and no need to machine a endless screw, unless you want brass on brass. Bravo that man!!!!
WHERE there is a need-----THANKYOU. I repair antique and classic auto parts for a living. Worm gears are used on window regulators and windshield wiper motors. THIS is a fantastic technique that puts repairs back into my hands. Thankyou, Jim Simpson ODD Parts Fabrication.
Very interesting technique, I've been wanting to try exactly that myself, nice to see it successfully done. Congratulations!
Hello! I think other taps with thread and pitches could be used, the smaller pitch the easier work.. I needed as big pitch as possible for that gear, so I use M12.. The only trouble is to count diameter of the gear accurately to have the teeth evenly placed, without a gap..
Teşekur ler çok iyi geldı
Primitive? No. Perhaps novel. It's the same thing all Craftsmen of any trade have ever done. Force a rigidly held form tool into a ridgedly held workpiece. We machinist just like to spin things to get more complex functions. This was a beautiful video. Thank you!
Legend has it the lathe is still running nonstop for 7 years .
I made a 350 teeth alu worm wheel for astro use some years back.I paid great attention to perpendicularity and to keep vibrations under control.I used a ball bearing cell which the toothwheel rotated on,
i fed aprox. 1/3 of the diameter of the actual taper(cutter) and technical alcohol as lubricant.No oil when working with alu!
Should be using paraffin or similar when cutting aluminium. WD40 works pretty well.
I assume calculations are needed to ensure you cut a whole number of grooves on each rotation given the radius, thread pitch, etc.
Very simple calculation based on OD, number of teeth and pitch of the teeth/thread. ODxDP-2=Z or PD+2 Addendum.
@@rayrudolph6382 what
@@soklot MHB my friend... MHB...
I know you through a friend who is a member of mine, thank you for Sharing these great videos
4:16 The sound became like the sound of a car engine 😂. The important thing is a good job, my brother. Keep with you your brother Ahmed from Morocco 👍
I used the same method to make 12" worm gears for my telescope, using 1/4" 6061-T6 Alm plate on a 6" lathe. The key, is to have the center bore first, the hob the teeth. As I was not after a specific number of teeth, I just hobbed until full depth was reached, and no partial teeth remain.
I was thinking of the same problem, that solves it, thanks !
Well that's nifty. The engineers are always asking us to do nutty things with little to no proper tooling. Always good to learn something new. This is going to be categorized under what I call "old guy tricks" I've learned many many things like this from guys close to retirement many who I have since replaced at various jobs over the years. Also handy if I ever need a small worm gear made at home with my little hobby lathe. I'm sure I could figure it out.
Fantastic, I've seen many craftsmen but most of them are like limited robots I'm glad to see such success!
This is soooo cool. This is the first time I've seen this done like this. I want to buy lathe so bad
.
Yep ditto that, add me to that list.
cool thread gear making trick, I never thought of it, good job sir
using this method you are machining the gear with varying pitch diameter because you are using the cross feed. What I did was to machine the od of the blank with a groove matching the id of the tap and a circumference which is a multiple of the pitch of the tap, Then bring it in with cross feed onto the end of the taper of the tap. Then use the saddle to feed the gear onto the tap. The cut is done always at the same diameter on the wheel.
Can you please suggest a video of this method? Thanks.
This is the better way to do it and more akin to how commercial gears are made
@@rominhawk3949 Hello sir, I read your comment with interest. I am passionate about this subject, so have you managed to get more information or have you done some trials leading to success. For my part, I am looking for the method allowing to obtain a precise number of teeth on the crown, for example: 40dts and not 41 or 43 dts. In addition, not understanding English, I do not master his method. Could you answer me please. P.K.
@@jforrestal365 Hello sir, I read your comment with interest. I am passionate about this subject, so have you managed to get more information or have you done some trials leading to success. For my part, I am looking for the method allowing to obtain a precise number of teeth on the crown, for example: 40dts and not 41 or 43 dts. In addition, not understanding English, I do not master his method. Could you answer me please. P.K.
The pitch of the thread is the same at the edge of the gear as that at the bottom of the cut but they are on different diameters. Something must give! Only a small part of the corresponding screw thread can be in contact.
great job man! thanks for not droning on like those that like to hear themselves talk.
Completamente de acuerdo, el bronce en sus distintos porcentajes de aleación permite ser mecanizado sin añadir lubricante debido a la estructura que forman, los metales y los no metales, permitiendo que el arranque de viruta requiera poco esfuerzo por parte de la herramienta .
Por otro lado la fundición, posee intersticiones de grafito, que es un lubricante natural
This is exactly how we make the filament feed roller in home made 3D printers.
i saw this video years ago and thought it was very cool. then needed to make a worm gear and couldn't find the video to set up my lathe. it's getting down loaded this time. thanks for sharing.
Love it!
Reminds me of the time I cut a 90 tooth gear with a 24 fixed position indexing head.
Ich habe schon mehrere Videos zu diesem Thema gesehen, aber dieses ist ein Augen- und Ohrenschmaus: wunderschön anzusehen und die reinen Werkgeräusche erfreuen mich ganz besonders, weil sie nicht durch irgendeine Hintergrund-"Musik" verdorben wurden.
I don't know about primitive.
That's pretty good.
Five minutes in you realize that your worm is left-handed. 8)
What the?! I wouldnt thought of that in a million years.. Brilliant.
and still i am always wondering how the start and the end of the gear groves will come to a magic overlap - especially because the diameter of the work piece will start to shrink during machining. (same wondering when it comes to grid pattern engraving on a late using a set of rolling engraver wheels put with some pressure onto the work piece...)
You are right. It seems like magic. I think the diameter has a lot to do with it. The diameter would have to be divisible to the thread pitch; I think or something like that Joe Pieczynski has an alright video on knurling. It deals with timing of knurls, and the diameter affecting the final outcome. I know its not the same just some food for thought.
@@OOEarth i guessed this one on Knurling:
ruclips.net/video/9Zwi0ZAUCUc/видео.html
In use a spiral tap because it keeps constant contact during the start phase. Good video thanks for posting.
Tak tohle je hodně cool. Pěkná práce! Skvělý návod pro domácí hobby práce na soustruhu!
This is a very good way of making a Worm & Gear, the really neat thing is it always seems to sort itself out as regards pitch, or at least it always has for me, I have used this method on a wide variety of sizes, always works.
Sanación por imanes
Were you making a new worm + wheel system or doing a repair for a current system ? And can you always use a tap or do they make specialist cutting tools for this ?
@Dustin Eward Knurling seems to be really hard on bits. But yeah, somehow it magically sorts itself out and looks good even after bad math, lol.
Am I right in assuming that the diameter of the piece must match or be an exact multiplication of the tooth per inch of the tap?
And if that is measured on the outer diameter and That the thread spacing must technically be closer or tighter on the inside of the concave?
A nice volume knob for the old hi-fi.
Don't knock the method if you haven't tried it, because it works very well.
For a more robust gear, use an ACME thread tap! Or even better, make a properly proportioned involute (straight-sided teeth!) hob. Relief is only required on the tooth OD.
The concern with this method is getting the right number of teeth, as the number can vary by +/- one tooth.
To make an accurate worm gear with the required tooth count, such as I made for an indexing head, gashing of the teeth will be required with very accurate spacing and depth of the individual gashes. This would be followed by the Free Hobbing process, where the gear blank turns freely, driven by the hob itself. Worked out very well for me.
Cool way of doing it and you only need a bolt for a worm.
A bolt for a worm means much more side thrust on the worm.
I think a standard bolt used to drive this gear would strip the gear quickly if subjected to any amout of torque. Most bolts onlt have 60% thread engagement. If you threaded a rod of the correct diameter you could get the thread contact percentage up quite a bit and have more consistent threads that wouldn't chew up the gear as quickly.
The accuracy of this has got to be dead on for those threads to match the OD , like knurling . Very neat 👌🏻😬
I am thinking the od and the pitch just would have to be divisible into a whole number
I’d probably end up with 63-1/2 teeth🤣
@@poopcow32 I'd think circumference at worm center divided by screw pitch would need to be a whole number.
I started my apprenticeship in 1969 , got into the advanced machine shop 1974 and was shown this technique then. Old Hat - long before CAD and CNC.
Love the work you do on the lathe m8, old school yes but you know what your doing. Keep the vids coming
kobiroar
Que es, para que sirve lo qie hizo,alguien sabe.
This is great!
I am a little confused though. Doesn't the effective pitch diameter, and therefore the number of teeth, change as you feed the blank in?
+fragwits Totally different situation. When tapping, the pitch diameter is the fixed and the tap advances in a line at a rate of one tooth per revolution. In this application the gear blank rotates at one tooth per revolution of the tap at the circumference, but the circumference (and therefore the number of teeth per revolution) changes as the cut gets deeper so it will take fewer cuts/teeth to make one revolution of the blank.
You can use a threaded rod, type as the tap.. If You used M10 tap, use a M10 threaded rod..
Great job!
Dalibor Farný what is this ?
This not narling trick
Mara Mamady i
Dalibor Farný
Is this a spure gear
Dalibor Farný Parabéns Muito bom seu trabalho
I was waiting for that straw to get pulled in
Clever use of a screw tap. I myself have 35 years of mechanics and never had seen
this trick. But you had to calculate the primitive diameter of the blank, to get it right.
Maybe using a tap with spiral grooves the cut is smoother?
Any diameter will be fine as you will just grind it until everything fits, if you chose wrong diameter you will just need more time.
also he is not moving everything up down so he got worm gear.
Blank diameter is figured as follows: (thread pitch) x teeth number desired divided by Pi (3.1416). Example if you used a 1/2 x 13 tap and wanted a 72 tooth gear. Ex: .0769" Thread Pitch x 72 teeth = 5.5368 divided by Pi = 1.762"
Best Racing Tips Win At The Dragstrip Now we have blank diameter rightly
calculated. Thanks.
registered. thanks.
mauritor
mayb not so critical as the cut deepens..
Excellent idea for meeting the requirement of small gear pensions & This is very much helpful to manufacturers without having a expensive gear cutting machine !
el broce y fundicion gris y materiales anti desgaste no se lubrifican al cortarlos se trabajan en seco y se cortan mejor
antonio lorente juberias i
@@tedhajduk3745 88888
@@adrianocazzola9314 、
Mk ok l
antonio lor
ente juberias
Well done, although brass needs no lubricant and using such can, and did, cause the chips to stick to both the tap and the work piece causing issues. I saw you were using a brush to deal with the chips sticking to the brass gear; that's not necessary if you don't use lubricant. Also the tap, as with any tools used on brass, needs to be brand new and sharp, i.e. never used on steel. This advice comes from a Trade Qualified Fitter and Turner (Mechanical Engineer). Great job, great vid :).
этод метод был описан в 1977 году вжурнале Радио я сам тогда же им пользовался !
Константин, раньше. Я такой способ видел в какой-то технической книге 70-72 года выпуска. Там же и приводились формулы для расчета наружного диаметра нарезаемой втулки в зависимости от шага резьбы. Они несложные и понятные.
К сожалению это некая эрзац червячная передача. Подобие.)))) Для несильно нагруженых механизмом пойдет.
НОРМАЛЬНО ПОЛУЧИЛОСЬ?
Да , когда то в СССР были инженеры.
Зачем это нужно?
@@Mahout_81 Ну да. А теперь только нытики и диванные эксперты в интернете
Zdravím. Nezkoušel jste podobnou legraci s trapézovým závitníkem - a zístkat evolventní ozubení? Přemýšlím o tom že bych si zkusil odvalit kolečko pro závitové hodinky.
You lost me the second I saw the IKEA crescent wrench. :40
Saber
I assume that he must have had to assemble it.
We all have tools we bought on impulse or it was the only place open when you really really needed a tool
Damn, I saw that and I thought I must have been mistaken.
So?!!
It's a tool that gets the job done. That's all that matters.
I used to grind gears at caterpillar, and on a larger scale, its hobbing, just on a much smaller scale. If you were to start at the leading edge of the work piece, and run all the way down to the bottom edge, it would actually be a decent hobby grade straight cut gear, run multiples at different diameters and you could, theoretically, build an entire gearbox.
I was a Cat tech for 30 years. We have probably touched some of the same gears. The various machining techniques Cat used always intrigued me.
Now I will never buy a gear motor again. Just make my own reduction gears! THANK YOU!
Takes me right back to the sound of steam trains when I was a lad.
using a screw tap, never thought about it before
Adib Asmara ytfvvhsn
Do you have to start with a blank of a precise diameter to avoid a mismatch at the start and end of each revolution - or does it just kind of work out? This is really fascinating. I found this by searching for "hobbing wooden gears.". Using a tap as a job cutter is genius BTW. Thanks for sharing.
It would have to be an exact diameter just like a gear. Refer to the machinist handbook.
Интересно. Но как же совпадение зубъев. На разных диаметрах при обработке разное количество зубъев. Нужно ли подсчитывать деаметр заготовки шестерни ?
расчет как для обычной прямозубой шестерни, проще выражать через шаг
Не подсчитывать, а рассчитывать.
Конечно же нужно. Есть специальные формулы. Токаря это знают.
@@Короткообовсём-м3э я тонкостей фрезерного дела не знаю-подсчитывать или рассчитывать, а предполагаю что нужно рассчитывать.
Только не токаря, а фрезеровщики. Работа для зубофрезерного станка, просто в данном случае в качестве фрезы - метчик, а фрезеровка выполняется на токарном станке
2πR/ на шаг резьбы метчика
You did a good job, the lathe is mother of all machine, I was a master machinist in Boeing co.
At 4:04 i imagined somebody playing thunderstruck, but it didn'happen :( Very nice anyway! :D
I expect to see more views excellerating . Truly this is absolute madness sir !
How could you know that the teeth do'nt overlap each other after making a complete 360° turn?, think you do a great job!!
The OD of the part has to be figured out by the number of teeth on the tap. Number of teeth divided into the circumference. You play around with the diameter and teeth until it is even, no over lapping.
it's called math
@@1835dueber
STFU
I've cut a few gears during my many years as a machinist . I gotta hand it to you, this was a great idea and really inspired me to open my mind an think outside the box. Great video
Todd Kratzer I know, but the diameter is even not always the same, when he cuts in the metal...🤷🏻♂️
How do you ensure the thread is not “out” when it comes back to the start? Do you need to work out the ideal diameter to start with?
Would it not be more important to have the exact diameter at finish to match the even numbers of teeth per inch at the end when the tap is 50% of its diameter (i.e. it’s radius) cut into the circumference of the wheel?
If it’s say 20 tpi tap - then your diameter needs to be 22/7 x (X) - radius of the tap -= say 40 teeth.
So you need X value to end up 2 inches long circumference to get 40 teeth / 20 tpi = 2 inches circumference.
Then you know the inside circumference must = 2 inches & the starting outside diameter must be 22/7 x diameter and allow the extra 1/2 of tap diameter ie tap radius?
That should give starting diameter to end up with 40 teeth on 2 inch long circumference?
Man that made my brain hurt. I shoulda paid more attention in math at school.
There was moths flew out my ears, I disturbed their resting place in my brain after those neuron brain synapses haven’t been used for 45+ years.
I could be wrong - that was just a mental arithmetic attempt, I didn’t check it with a calculator or anything, so don’t take my word for it.
Pure luck if after 1 rev, the teeth marks matched up. You could end up with half teeth and machine everything off. Good idea but for accurate work ie meshing gears, the work piece has to be driven in synch with the cutter.
Igotknobblies The method demonstrated is called free bobbing. The workpiece is forced to rotate by the helix angle on the flank of the cutter. Works fine for light power transmission, probably not consistent enough for accurate positioning.
webtoedman yes, I quite understand the theory behind free hobbing, like I said, it's pure luck if the first and last tooth of the revolution of the workpiece are a perfect tooth distance apart, and like I said, if they're out by 50%, you could end up chopping all the teeth off.
Igotknobblies Unless he calculated the diameter exactly.
PaintHerWhite but wich diameter the initial or the final? I think he calculated the initial, because the center of the gear seems a little flat than the borders.
Igotknobblies Except it’s a well known and understood process. You are the one without a clue here.
I love it.... been a fitter and turner for years and STILL never thought of doing this.... I'm subbing
Hi Jamie, I didnt change the tap, it is in original condition as You can buy it in store..
I agree that it is clever, however, there is a problem with it. The deeper you go, the smaller the circumference, and the gear teeth begin to overlap. That is why the bottom of the groove is so much smoother in both gears shown than the rest of the thread. If you would run a bolt in the groove, it looks like might only engage properly near the two rims, since they were both machined at a constant circumferential pitch. Would you need to sandwich the bolt between two of these worm gears to prevent slippage? How effective is the engagement?
Do I hear the whine of a VFD?
I used to do this decades ago, as a Machinist I have done many jobs and a few times i made my own pillow blocks for inline portable boring in the field for heavy equipment repair. I made these big and small for perfect machine radius`s, I made fixtures to hold high speed or insert tooling.
There are machinists and then there are another breed of Machinists who always think outside the box on Everything. 😁
Thanks, this video appeared just at the right time for me. A simple jig for my mini mil or mini lathe and I should be able to cut a large worm gear. Thanks again.
Now then, I wonder if a matching die could cut the matching worm?
A bolt of same thread
My experience is in gear shop.but i have never seen like this in worm cutting in lathe. Fantastic.super.congrats to you.
Hi, just determine the number of teeth and the pitch and You will get the perimeter. e.g. 50 teeth 1.5mm pitch = 75mm perimeter. perimeter = 2 * pi *r, so radius = perimeter / 2 / pi
D=23.88 ok
The gear hobbing set-up described herein is neither new nor primitive. In fact it is described in the bible of milling machines, published by the Cincinati Milling Machine Company in the middle of the last century. The basic set-up is named free-hobbing, and is useful only for worm gears.
When cutting small gears by this method, it is best to make 3 or 4 gear blanks because the number of teeth produced may vary by +/- 1 tooth! This may be ok for some purposes, but if an accurate gear with a certain number of teeth is required, the process needs a little refinement. I've used this refined method to hob a worm gear for a small indexing head, which turned out very well indeed.
How do you calculate the diameter of the blank for the gear? Very impressive video as usual of course.
+cerberus Dalibor is really sorry but he is, "stuck in his own work".
+cerberus I think it must be close to 2 *PI * thread pitch * tooths
+Federico Devigili thanks for the help. I will make note of this and give it a try.
By supercomputer power!
Circumference measurement and accommodating thread count?
Brilliant idea. Thank you for posting the video. I learned something new today.
Nice! Terrifically easy to do. I'd put a mark on the blank to guide me when to do the next in-feed. Other than that, this is a total win.
ExtantFrodo2 there was a mark ^_^
“Great job! I would have done this because I’m perfect. However, you’re not. Nice effort!
It's doesn't work ;like that
in 50 years around machines this is only the third time I have seen this method. thanks