The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”. Government responded: Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation. A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain. Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code. The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative. The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Click this link to view the response online: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate. The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee Thanks, The Petitions team UK Government and Parliament
This is utter non-sense. Burning heather allows the sprouting of young heather, which is easy to digest for young grouse hatches. It also stops old heather becoming a redundant food source due to its inability to sprout flower. I think snow during the winter is a bigger problem than flooding - never heard of any mention of that on my trips to Scotland. Also arguing that people pay extra for water purification is ridiculous - cities probably produce a bigger waste amount on an innumerably larger scale that means that statement is completely meaningless statistically and economically. Also burning peat may affect climate change on a large scale, burning heather - what he is actually standing on (not peat) on peatted land probably doesn't contribute much at all. This is an attack on tradition and the countryside by someone who obscures the facts. Also of note: there is far far less diversity in terms of species and in much less quantity on RSPB moor's in comparison to a managed moor such as this.
Quote from Raptor Persecution UK that I must share. "The grouse shooting industry won’t tolerate hen harriers on the moors. Not one single hen harrier nested successfully on an English driven grouse moor this year. This is a landscape that has the capacity to support hundreds of breeding pairs. The English hen harrier breeding population has virtually collapsed, as has the credibility of the grouse shooting industry, which has more bits falling off it than a clown’s car. Hen harriers will not recover in England until the grouse shooting industry has been closed down".
Peter Jones fucking bollocks, there are more birds of prey hatched on grouse moors than anywhere else , wouldn’t believe a word this lying twat Packhem says.
It's nothing new, the anti shooting extremists have been making these vastly exaggerated claims for ages, but they have no alternative plan for how to replace the £100m spent on conservation by grouse moors, and the massive benefits to threatened species of waders and employment for thousands of people in rural areas. More info here basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Grouse-Infographic-FINAL-800px2.jpg
I'm not anti shooting and I understand your viewpoint. Yet, I see that raptor persecution is occurring frequently across the UK, I see that there are alternate methods to heather burning and there can be wet bogs. Yet the call for a ban on grouse shooting is justified by the negligence of land owners. I believe the shooting fraternity needs to be realistic about what can be shot and instead of having a mass (i use mass in terms of large quantity of birds) shoot, smaller numbers of grouse could be shot. Therefore, removing the pressure to keep high grouse numbers, allowing for natural predation (stopping the need to persecute raptors) and changing industrial processes (allowing upland bogs to develop, locking carbon and cleaning water supplies) should be encouraged / enforced (if its enforced that may not change the current situation, i.e. raptor persecution is already illegal but still occurs). One needs to think about how the shooting sport can be developed to stop the need of adversely impacting the natural environment like the current situation. Traditions sometimes need to change to accommodate the present and future conditions. Best Wishes, 0wl :)
Good stuff. Do look into the details of illegal killing of raptors. There is clearly a problem, which the modern gamekeeping associations, colleges, etc are working hard to eliminate, but the total numbers are exaggerated by the anti-shooting lobby which sadly Chris has aligned himself with, when I feel as a BBC presenter he should be taking an impartial stance. There are shoots of all sizes all across the uk, and the numbers Chris quotes are from more than 100 years ago! Of course like anything there are good, bad and indifferent shoots, as there are farms etc. The associations do valuable research and encourage best practice. We're not all a bunch of stuck-up twits in tweed! You'll find that traditions have changed and continue to evolve, and shooters do a massive amount for the environment out of their sheer love for wildlife and the countryside (stand by for a tide of sneering comments from the antis!). All the best, James
Yep, I agree with that (although i haven't looked into the quotes). I get a lot of my knowledge from shooters. The knowledge base of shooters and conservationists separately has many holes, together it is definitely rigorous and strong. It is an emotional subject which flares up a lot of flack. 0wl :)
Drivel. All this from a man who probably drove with fossil fueled transport to film this video and as to water treatment, all water is treated anyway, he needs to visit a treatment plant. Grouse shooting actually promotes diversity on these moors through reducing natural predators like stoats and harriers. Dont manage the moors and you have a less diversified pasture thats only fit for a few sheep. Of course some scottish farmers earning a buck are an easier target that the SUV mommies dropping their kids to school everyday in their gas guzzlers or the Burger joints and their methane producing part of the food chain.
+toffytwat or fattytwit or whatever your name is. So you appear to be saying that removing predators from the ecosystem promotes biodiversity??!! Nice theory, but it does have just a few flaws... And as to hen harrier persecution being a positive thing, I'm not sure that any unbiased (for example, no financial or personal interest in shooting for sport) conservationists would agree with you. And quite a lot of us are also fighting the big corporations who are damaging the earth. May I ask what you personally are doing for the bigger picture?
Ah the big corporations.....so you are another you of those girls who has spent the last years since greenham common chaining yourself to trees and trying to pull fox hunters off their horses at the weekend while you have time off from the local social welfare office or the statefunded job you might have if you actually word. Well dear over the years I´ve restocked rivers after they were polluted by pig farmers and I´ve had to shoot mink that were illegally released into the wild from farm by your comrades where they turned on the local otters fish and bird life. You see the people who actually care about the countryside are usually the ones who work and live with the countryside and not your average leftist cuty dweller who just happens to pull on a pair of wellies. Ask yourseld who is funding chris paclham that he feels its more important to fly to Malta to further his cause that use the money to make a greater impact in the UK considering the cost of his trip not to mention the carbon trail it left behind. You are incapable of seeing the bigger picture due to tunnel vision.
+twistofat Actually "my dear" the big cooperations comment was in response to your "easier to target some Scottish farmers than burger chains" pointing out that quite a lot of people are managing to campaign for both. Also you are clearly sexist to add to your other array of issues. And I happen to have lived in the countryside my whole life, as well as doing bird species surveys for Natural England on a regular basis for the last 10 years, working for the wildlife trust, I believe I have a fairly sound understanding of *real* conservation. Also volunteering in wildlife rescue centres and seeing more than I'd like to of the damage caused by shooting. I would not release mink into the wild anymore than I would breed and release foreign pheasants for this wonderful 'sport'. And I am happily self employed thank you. No state funding, just honest, ethical work for honest pay. Now back to my question about hen harrier persecution being a positive thing... If you believe that, can you explain how the fuck you can pose as a conservationist? And how your theory of removing predators is good for the ecosystem? Thanks.
Hen Harriers need a wide area and a brreding pair cover large areas of ground. Moorland with large numbers of grouse supported by the shoots will support larger number of hen harriers that a normal ecology will allow. Remove the birds introduced by the shoots will result in mating pairs fighting for territory this driving competitors out. East european anglers removing pike from waters have led to an explosion in coarse fish that have led to an explosion in roach and carp stocks(fish not actually naturally occuring in the UK originally) which in turn have led to a reduction in the number of salmon and trout in UK rivers and lakes. The UK government set up a group to promote thehen harrier population, a group comprising those best placed to help- The group comprises Defra, Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust, Moorland Association, National Gamekeepers Organisation, National Parks UK, Natural England and the RSPB.Yes you read correctly the Gamekeepers organisation. Of the 600 estimated pairs still in the UK over 500 are in scotland where the majority of grouse shooting takes place. The birds are shy and need peace so even hikers will put them off nesting, but you and your cronies like easy targets much like the shooters you so despise. As I said tunnel vision.
twistoffat Well said, and if they did get grouse shooting banned land owners would probably turn the moorland into blanket forestry and wind turbines, also one of the biggest killers of all types of birds, but Mr Packham is ok with them, their greeeeeeeen he and his ilk are the biggest threat to the well being of the countryside.
This guy is a wealthy, self-serving narcissist; totally consumed with an extremist view; oblivious and without consideration to any view that differs to his own.
The game keepers don't burn the peat just the Heather tops.
The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”.
Government responded:
Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation.
A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain.
Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code.
The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative.
The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected.
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Click this link to view the response online:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes
The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.
The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
This is utter non-sense. Burning heather allows the sprouting of young heather, which is easy to digest for young grouse hatches. It also stops old heather becoming a redundant food source due to its inability to sprout flower. I think snow during the winter is a bigger problem than flooding - never heard of any mention of that on my trips to Scotland. Also arguing that people pay extra for water purification is ridiculous - cities probably produce a bigger waste amount on an innumerably larger scale that means that statement is completely meaningless statistically and economically.
Also burning peat may affect climate change on a large scale, burning heather - what he is actually standing on (not peat) on peatted land probably doesn't contribute much at all.
This is an attack on tradition and the countryside by someone who obscures the facts. Also of note: there is far far less diversity in terms of species and in much less quantity on RSPB moor's in comparison to a managed moor such as this.
Yep, signed :)
Excellent stuff Chris - right on the money
Signed.
Burnt Heather helps insects, then birds the watter gets waders. Don't trust me watch the game keeper on here !!!!!!
The real cause of greenhouse gasses , Chris Packhem .
Petition signed.
Burning heather helps wildlife, speak to a gamekeeper who knows about this then make your mind up
Quote from Raptor Persecution UK that I must share.
"The grouse shooting industry won’t tolerate hen harriers on the moors. Not one single hen harrier nested successfully on an English driven grouse moor this year. This is a landscape that has the capacity to support hundreds of breeding pairs. The English hen harrier breeding population has virtually collapsed, as has the credibility of the grouse shooting industry, which has more bits falling off it than a clown’s car. Hen harriers will not recover in England until the grouse shooting industry has been closed down".
Ah Raptor Persecution, that well known impartial and independent purveyor of facts with not a hint of bigotry or bias... er, not.
Give me an instance then...
Peter Jones fucking bollocks, there are more birds of prey hatched on grouse moors than anywhere else , wouldn’t believe a word this lying twat Packhem says.
Ewosion
How can you get this out onto mass media? Can you pull any strings? The petition needs a lot more signatures
It's nothing new, the anti shooting extremists have been making these vastly exaggerated claims for ages, but they have no alternative plan for how to replace the £100m spent on conservation by grouse moors, and the massive benefits to threatened species of waders and employment for thousands of people in rural areas. More info here basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Grouse-Infographic-FINAL-800px2.jpg
I'm not anti shooting and I understand your viewpoint. Yet, I see that raptor persecution is occurring frequently across the UK, I see that there are alternate methods to heather burning and there can be wet bogs. Yet the call for a ban on grouse shooting is justified by the negligence of land owners. I believe the shooting fraternity needs to be realistic about what can be shot and instead of having a mass (i use mass in terms of large quantity of birds) shoot, smaller numbers of grouse could be shot. Therefore, removing the pressure to keep high grouse numbers, allowing for natural predation (stopping the need to persecute raptors) and changing industrial processes (allowing upland bogs to develop, locking carbon and cleaning water supplies) should be encouraged / enforced (if its enforced that may not change the current situation, i.e. raptor persecution is already illegal but still occurs). One needs to think about how the shooting sport can be developed to stop the need of adversely impacting the natural environment like the current situation. Traditions sometimes need to change to accommodate the present and future conditions. Best Wishes, 0wl :)
Good stuff. Do look into the details of illegal killing of raptors. There is clearly a problem, which the modern gamekeeping associations, colleges, etc are working hard to eliminate, but the total numbers are exaggerated by the anti-shooting lobby which sadly Chris has aligned himself with, when I feel as a BBC presenter he should be taking an impartial stance.
There are shoots of all sizes all across the uk, and the numbers Chris quotes are from more than 100 years ago! Of course like anything there are good, bad and indifferent shoots, as there are farms etc. The associations do valuable research and encourage best practice. We're not all a bunch of stuck-up twits in tweed! You'll find that traditions have changed and continue to evolve, and shooters do a massive amount for the environment out of their sheer love for wildlife and the countryside (stand by for a tide of sneering comments from the antis!).
All the best,
James
Yep, I agree with that (although i haven't looked into the quotes). I get a lot of my knowledge from shooters. The knowledge base of shooters and conservationists separately has many holes, together it is definitely rigorous and strong. It is an emotional subject which flares up a lot of flack. 0wl :)
Drivel. All this from a man who probably drove with fossil fueled transport to film this video and as to water treatment, all water is treated anyway, he needs to visit a treatment plant. Grouse shooting actually promotes diversity on these moors through reducing natural predators like stoats and harriers. Dont manage the moors and you have a less diversified pasture thats only fit for a few sheep. Of course some scottish farmers earning a buck are an easier target that the SUV mommies dropping their kids to school everyday in their gas guzzlers or the Burger joints and their methane producing part of the food chain.
+toffytwat or fattytwit or whatever your name is. So you appear to be saying that removing predators from the ecosystem promotes biodiversity??!! Nice theory, but it does have just a few flaws...
And as to hen harrier persecution being a positive thing, I'm not sure that any unbiased (for example, no financial or personal interest in shooting for sport) conservationists would agree with you.
And quite a lot of us are also fighting the big corporations who are damaging the earth. May I ask what you personally are doing for the bigger picture?
Ah the big corporations.....so you are another you of those girls who has spent the last years since greenham common chaining yourself to trees and trying to pull fox hunters off their horses at the weekend while you have time off from the local social welfare office or the statefunded job you might have if you actually word. Well dear over the years I´ve restocked rivers after they were polluted by pig farmers and I´ve had to shoot mink that were illegally released into the wild from farm by your comrades where they turned on the local otters fish and bird life. You see the people who actually care about the countryside are usually the ones who work and live with the countryside and not your average leftist cuty dweller who just happens to pull on a pair of wellies. Ask yourseld who is funding chris paclham that he feels its more important to fly to Malta to further his cause that use the money to make a greater impact in the UK considering the cost of his trip not to mention the carbon trail it left behind. You are incapable of seeing the bigger picture due to tunnel vision.
+twistofat Actually "my dear" the big cooperations comment was in response to your "easier to target some Scottish farmers than burger chains" pointing out that quite a lot of people are managing to campaign for both. Also you are clearly sexist to add to your other array of issues. And I happen to have lived in the countryside my whole life, as well as doing bird species surveys for Natural England on a regular basis for the last 10 years, working for the wildlife trust, I believe I have a fairly sound understanding of *real* conservation. Also volunteering in wildlife rescue centres and seeing more than I'd like to of the damage caused by shooting. I would not release mink into the wild anymore than I would breed and release foreign pheasants for this wonderful 'sport'. And I am happily self employed thank you. No state funding, just honest, ethical work for honest pay.
Now back to my question about hen harrier persecution being a positive thing... If you believe that, can you explain how the fuck you can pose as a conservationist? And how your theory of removing predators is good for the ecosystem? Thanks.
Hen Harriers need a wide area and a brreding pair cover large areas of ground. Moorland with large numbers of grouse supported by the shoots will support larger number of hen harriers that a normal ecology will allow. Remove the birds introduced by the shoots will result in mating pairs fighting for territory this driving competitors out. East european anglers removing pike from waters have led to an explosion in coarse fish that have led to an explosion in roach and carp stocks(fish not actually naturally occuring in the UK originally) which in turn have led to a reduction in the number of salmon and trout in UK rivers and lakes. The UK government set up a group to promote thehen harrier population, a group comprising those best placed to help- The group comprises Defra, Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust, Moorland Association, National Gamekeepers Organisation, National Parks UK, Natural England and the RSPB.Yes you read correctly the Gamekeepers organisation. Of the 600 estimated pairs still in the UK over 500 are in scotland where the majority of grouse shooting takes place. The birds are shy and need peace so even hikers will put them off nesting, but you and your cronies like easy targets much like the shooters you so despise. As I said tunnel vision.
twistoffat Well said, and if they did get grouse shooting banned land owners would probably turn the moorland into blanket forestry and wind turbines, also one of the biggest killers of all types of birds, but Mr Packham is ok with them, their greeeeeeeen he and his ilk are the biggest threat to the well being of the countryside.
This guy is a wealthy, self-serving narcissist; totally consumed with an extremist view; oblivious and without consideration to any view that differs to his own.