The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”. Government responded: Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation. A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain. Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code. The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative. The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Click this link to view the response online: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate. The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee Thanks, The Petitions team UK Government and Parliament
@@theotheseaeagle because that isn't a result of grouse shooting, like roadkill isn't a result of people driving cars responsibly. Point the finger at the dickheads that do kill birds of prey and try to look into how the number of birds of prey on grouse shooting mores is up to four times higher than moors that are not managed for shooting.
@@JoshQ-jp8dx 6 buzzards have already been killed by gamekeepers and Dorset and several recently reintroduced white tailed eagles have also been poisoned. Most gamekeepers that kill birds of prey don’t get prosecuted and they continue to do it. The only way to eliminate it is to either ban driven grouse shooting outright or regulate it better and take it more seriously.
@@theotheseaeagle Banning peoples rights will not fix the problems caused by people who dont follow the rules. Ban grouse shooting (just like shooting birds of prey was banned), and all you'll get is an unknown number of grouse being shot, with no help to boost their numbers and no medication for disease, no track of how they are killed, far less reports of these birds of prey which, most of the time, are found and pointed out to authorities BY the shooting community and a whole lot more crime going on. Banning a benefit to our environment will not stop something that's already been banned. So the option is to find out how this is happening and why, because most missing birds of prey are automatically reported to be shot, forgetting things like disease, competition for food, fights and natural causes that will come to every living thing. Not forgetting, birds of prey that have actually been shot. The number compared to other deaths is obviously quite small, meaning that preventing this should not be a difficult task and is mostly successful
It's already illegal to kill protected birds of prey it has nothing to do with the petition,you are trying to ban grouse shooting under the guise of it protecting endangered birds.
The police. They could prosecute everyone who took part in an illegal shoot. The landowner, the keepers, the shooters, the beaters, the loaders, the agents who advertised and arranged the shoot, all of them. And subsidy payments would be reclaimed under the cross compliance regulations. And shotgun and firearm certificates would be revoked Somehow I don't think it would be necessary though. If driven grouse shooting was banned, the ban wouldn't be broken. Too easily detected and too much at stake.
I was really referring to the comment by someoldblackguy who was saying Chris Packham was trying to get grouse shooting banned under the guise of protecting endangered birds when it's already illegal to kill birds. I think banning grouse shooting WOULD give more protection to birds of prey. As you say though, there is always a problem of upholding laws - particularly animal welfare or wildlife ones. We do get the occasional prosecution for fox hunting and badger baiting but there are no doubt many wildlife crimes going unpunished. Then again, there are many crimes going unpunished full stop. As I didn't care for the 'please engage brain here' comment though, I will bow out and leave it to you more intelligent types with engaged brains to discuss.
These rich fuckers do not care, only want to shoot something. No different here in the U. S. Assholes everywhere, do not know anything about hunting for food or respect of nature. Ashame
Have to admit, I was with you until the last sentence. I'm not sure that makes sense. Want to raise funds to increase awareness? Count me in. Want to raise funds to help prosecute those that commit these offences? Makes sense to me. Condemn a whole industry, a way of life for some, an income for the beaters, take grouse pretty much off the menu? Sorry Chris, you've lost me there...
You're right, it is unfair to punish everyone for the actions of a few. But the impact of these 'few' grouse moors impacts wildlife populations hugely, which in turn affects people interested in watching wildlife all across Britain, not just those living near grouse moors. It is a complicated problem, hence why it feels like no progress is being made to solve it; this may not seem to be a completely fair solution but it would be a huge step forward. If I have failed to convince you, I really suggest a bit of online research about Hen Harriers in Britain, or read Mark Avery's book, Inglorious.
Sean - I used to think that too. But you need to watch the whole series of videos on different aspects of driven grouse shooting - and then you might decide, like Chris, and me, that there isn't much wriggle room for this hobby of killing birds for fun. It's unsustainable, ecologically damaging and necessarily underpinned by wildlife crime. And also this is an industry (remember - it's just a hobby really) which has not cleaned up its act over decades. I'd say things have got worse. So the time for giving them a nudge has long gone - it's time to tell driven grouse shooting to push off. Please sign the petition that will get this debated in parliament petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125003
+Mark Avery as a foodie that wants the choice to eat grouse, pheasant, quail, woodcock, wild goose, partridge, etc what is the alternative to getting them out of the sky and into the pot? It's overly simplistic to describe it as 'killing birds for fun' when for many generations hunting was what put dinner on the table. Unfortunately modern intensive agriculture, far from being the 'solution' has too many issues of its own and is also harmful to the environment. As the video says, the law already exists to prohibit this practice and make it illegal, so use resources to help its enforcement. Much easier, more achievable, more realistic, than condemning a whole industry or trying to ban the whole activity because of the actions of a few.
You seem to try and distance yourself from generalising and then proceed to generalise enormously. "Just a hobby", "underpinned by wildlife crime", "things have got worse". The use of poisons like strychnine was once widespread throughout the UK and is now, apart from a law breaking minority, almost non existent. With regard to trapping, are we to believe that the RSPB undertakes no predator control whatsoever? It is an industry, and one of the few that actually has some benefit to the environment. Banning grouse shooting would be an absolute disaster for the moors, its wildlife, and for the communities that survive because of it.
+reuben Hunter the rspb cull predators on there reserves that's fact they pay the nasty people as Chris calls them to shoot corvids and foxes etc fact look at the freedom of information act they release.their a business not a charity as well as a lobby group.cats kill more birds than hunters Chris never says ban them why? .
Actually due to the billion dollar drug industry, there WILL NEVER BE A CURE for Cancer because they should actually instead of research on the CURE, find the CAUSE but as with mental illness, the EVIL GREEDY Tories do not believe in funding Mental Health Research and there are billions to made from drugs......so in a sense, Chris Packham is not entirely wrong (and my Mother died from a rare Cancer. She said she would die for what animals suffer.)
Yes if we nurtured the Natural world instead of what humans usually do which is have the attitude "what is in it for me " or "what profit is in it " then just maybe looking after everything in that way Cancer would be eradicated ..is it any wonder there is so much Cancer the amount of ,pollution,chemical being used . this is were he was coming form I believe. Take care of Nature & everything will take care of us ...simple .
we're apart of nature so we have every right to be involved with it. We have to eat plants and animals to live and because of this we can never get uninvolved with nature.
I don’t get why we even need to persecute birds of prey and other predators. Grouse and hen harriers as well as stoats foxes and weasels have lived side by side for thousands of years. Surely if they had a negative impact on grouse numbers grouse and other bird species would have died out a long while before we started managing moors
No, you can have predators reducing prey numbers without killing them off. Wolves and deer live side by side in many countries, but that's not to say that removing wolves won't increase deer populations (hence why there is in many areas little natural control of deer population in the UK today). That's also not to say that I'm opposed to grouse shooting.
Vastly confused by the comments here. He appears to be saying 'we set traps up that put birds in phenomenal amounts of pain, that we wouldn't wish on anyone of our loved ones, prior to them enduring a slow, miserable death, so...we probably shouldn't do that'. Why is everyone against that, as it seems relatively common-sensical? (genuinely intrigued by the way, as I have little knowledge on the subject. Are grouse evil in some way or...?)
When something like this is trending on RUclips whilst Justin Wren and his fight for the forgotten project is relatively unknown it really makes me question our priorities as a species.
I was walking through the Pennines and found multiple traps such as that on walls and bridges. It's quite dangerous for walkers and if I'd known they would be in the grass I would have been more cautious to go over fields of heather. Thankfully nothing happened. I say ban them.
You probably came across legally set traps for stoats and weasels the law states as long as the traps are covered by a wire cage to prevent access by non target species they are allowed by law. Mr Packham is referring to illegally set traps the like of which you will probably never see.
Adrian - since you sound like you know a bit about this, you must know that ring Ousels, Dippers, leverets and even sheep are caught in these traps. The by-catch is pretty disgusting.
+Mark Avery unfortunately accidents do happen with most things, I'm almost sure you will have inadvertently ended the life of a bird or mammal while pursuing a perfectly legal occupation (driving) you will obviously do your utmost to avoid such occurrences, Similarly no decent law abiding keeper wants his traps to catch anything other than vermin and will set his traps correctly in locations accordingly to avoid such situations.
The problem is though that if you are a keeper on a grouse moor and you are expected to provide enough grouse to make the moor economically viable, otherwise you risk losing your job, your house and your vehicle, you might be tempted to regard hen harriers as vermin. It's not like that view would be at odds with the long tradition of game keeping after all.
Speaking from a great background of experience, the problem is not with the sport but individual gamekeepers and there practices. Why sign the petition when you can simply go after the culprit in the wrong and punish him accordingly by notifying the gun captain of the practices which occur. I've had a few run ins with sly gamekeepers, but upon seeing bad practices, I've alerted the gun captain (who is usually the man or woman running the shoot for those out there who know absolutely nothing) and it's resulted in the removal of corrupt individuals. Yes I've shot game, yes I've plucked, prepared and ate my own efforts. But I do not condone in such illegal practices, nor do I appreciate a twat standing in a field thinking he knows the half of it. These grouse he speaks of later are sold on as produce, so no meat is wasted. And the birds are only shot upon flying towards a gun.. any other kill is deemed bad sport and those individuals are usually banned from the shoot or fined. Before I have notifications flooding in of how it's inhumane, have you seen how cows are industrialised, or how farmers treat animals in confined conditions which get sold off to large supermarkets. Once you have witnessed a unit full of hens, then come at me with a valid point. Don't do a twat move like the fellow in the video and complain of a topic without showing two sides of the story or even having an individual who even shoots in the video. It's all one sided and aimed at banning a sport, when in reality we should be banning bad practice. But if I was to be put in this video, and if I was to record my venturings in certain places and the sport being fully carried out, there'd be alot of different opinions. Stop illegak traps, but don't stop a sport. Sorry of I've gone off topic ever too much, it's just annoyed me ever so slightly, seeing such hogwash in my suggested videos. Especially once I've come back from my shift :)
That method has been tried for years upon years, with no progress. Everyone blames someone else, and it's very very rare to get a conviction. There are also a lot of other ecological issues caused by driven grouse shooting in particular - this is not just a "cruelty" argument by animal rights activists, it is an environmental one.
I'm sorry if facts get in the way of your bleeding heart narrative. Remind me again; how many hen harriers do we currently have? Remind me again; what do hen harriers feed on? Remind me again; what do gamekeepers do to yield the most grouse in their man made monocultures? Your 'whataboutism' about cows just shows how brittle your argument is, because deep down you know this is a barbaric pursuit, which directly impacts the environment in negative ways.
The industry itself needs to get a grip here. There is nothing wrong with grouse shooting per se (wild game has had a FAR better life and death than the poor factory farmed chickens we eat), but it's the money involvement which drives this demand for more birds.
Choppington - you sound very fair. the grouse shooting industry (remember it's just a hobby really) has had decades to clean up its act and failed spectacularly. things have got worse not better. It's time to kick iintensive grouse shooting into touch petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125003
Most of the illegal activity will go undetected and most of what is detected will go unsolved, whichever agency is involved, simply because of the vast, remote, isolated and sparsely inhabited nature of the areas involved. That's why there's no harriers breeding on grouse moors. Simply put, the keepers know there's every chance they'll get away with it.
Do you honestly think banning grouse shooting will stop the persecution? then think again. It’s the individuals not the shooting of grouse. The majority of gamekeeper are active in conservation, why do you think birds of prey like grouse moors, yep because the habitat is managed and they like the managed habitat. Remove the grouse shooting results in removing gamekeepers that removes vermin control, reduces grouse population and hence reduces birds of prey. On another theme, Hen Harriers ground nesting and without vermin control the numbers will plummet further. Chris is an animals rights fruit cake along with the loonie Oddie, ( president LACS) they are destroying the RSPB.
It’s nothing to do with grouse it’s the fact that they poison birds of prey. Maybe if they stopped killing birds of prey (which is illegal anyway but still happens) then they could still shoot grouse
I think ye'r making a big mistake pushing to have grouse shooting/managed moorelands banned. Here in Ireland, mooreland management is almost non-exist yet most of our ground nesting species (including red grouse and harrier) are in serious trouble. Our two biggest conservation success projects involving ground nesting birds involve managed land with predator control- lough Boora grey partridge and Ballybrack red grouse project
The pace brothers of the into the wilderness series and podcast are wanting a debate with you about the pros and cons of grouse shooting, why have you not responded to them Chris? Surely if you feel as passionate as you say about having it banned you wouldn't mind the publicity? Or do you fear it may sway some folk the other way?
Hey Luke, by no means am I an activist but I can't think of any other pro about grouse hunting other than wealthy folk have fun. What are in your opinion other pros? Cheers.
+Al Gil online rants and rages could go on forever between the two sides. why not have well known figures have a debate made available to the public? so they can make their own minds up either way.
+Luke Liddle sure thing, I don't think anyone should be forced a view point. However I do agree that (some) animals or birds need controlling For example on farms where livestock are being taken . I think the ways and means in which it is done though should be humane. I don't see why birds should be targeted because its harming an attraction! so not only are the birds being bred to be blown out of the sky or off the ground killed in-humanely so are innocent birds who don't need to be killed. I'm all for people having fun and people protecting other animals but not killing living things because it's getting in the way of a good shot. Peace.
It may have escaped your notice, but both Packham and Avery invite any representative of the Driven Grouse Shooting industry being held in open debate at the Rutland Birdfair this month. Any takers? You bet there hasn't been a single one, strange that...
The likes of Chris Packham and his ilk of which also include Mark Avery, Bill Oddie and many more. What does their particular role involve apart from wanting all things within the countryside banned. "Chris Packam is totally driven by money, his girlfriend owns a zoo he nowadays refuses to use any binocular that supports their use for hunting or any type of fieldsports. So he will not use the likes of Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. "Ithink he's going too far nowadays! I've been on several moors of which are shot over and the birdlife is wonderful on many of these moors. The people who say they're isn't any wildlife are either blind or don't want to admit that Grouse moors produce more wildlife than the places of refuge owned by the R.S.P.B. Also, our opponents don't provide their members w ith the details regarding the R.S.P.B on the controling foxes on their reserves."I don't suppose we'll ever see eye to eye, however, for the birdlife and various other wildlife we should unite together, not keep scoring aimless points at each other!
Without the grouseshooting, the grouse and other groundbirds, snowhares etc. are doomed. Without the incoming money from the shoots, means the end of a habitat. Who will finance these habitats, when the moneyflow from the shoots are broken down? The wildlife trust? The taxpayer? Would there be enough money then for all the moors? Maintaining this sort of habitat cost a lot of money. Money that you need to preserve the wildlife and his "natural" habitat. If you take your hands of "nature" in a man made world, you lose a lot of wildlife and habitat in that progress. Animals and plants go extinct in that way. If money can be raised for protecting deu shooting and for working year round, for maintaining the moors, what's the problem then? The red- and black grouse and a lot of other ground breeders are more scares in Europe, than foxes and other predators(exept some bird of prey of cource). If everything is according to law and if you don't only think about the shooting and your own emotions. Then you maybe realize that they do a pretty good job preserving a precious habitat and the wildlife that go along whit that. When good things happen, for the wrong or right reasons...they're still good things. At the end of the day, to preserve these precious wildlife and habitats, there must be a lot of money needed to accomplish this. (My English isn't very good, but my point is made.)
There’s plenty of moors which are no longer used for grouse shooting and they do just fine and actually are more biodiverse. Driven grouse shooting isn’t the only thing keeping moors alive (which in reality they aren’t they are just killing all the other wildlife) considering you can earn nearly double the amount of money through ecotourism etc
@@sheldream981 These 'deserts' contain rare species that you will not find anywhere else, and the ones you can find in other places are normally far more abundant. moors are huge meadows that benefit our smaller species. Have you heard of the heather beetle? Of course you haven't, you think the one habitat in this country that's actually RARER than rainforest is a psychopath desert. It is far more natural than anything chris have ever done in his life, including his 'animal prison of a zoo made for rich powerful psychos like him to use them for entertainment'..
Got things to say, please don't hate me for it, just a practical thing, which i hate that exists; if heather moors that support red grouse aren't paid for by shooting them, what replaces the grouse moors? Red Grouse are endemic to British isles, it would cost a lot of money to manage the heather moors without shooting income, i know my stuff; worked as a gamekeeper after all, just couldn't deal with idea of looking after life just to see it being extinguished for no logical reason ( grouse and pheasant have no meat on them and taste shit!), also couldn't deal with polarised attitude from both sides when there are WAY more bigger things they could focus their attention and money on, like, er cancer? homeless people, aids, parents who cant afford school meals, loss of rural buses, etc, these people who can afford to shoot on the 12th are supposedly amongst the "1%" right? fuck them, but i will finish with this: i do shoot, but only vermin such as grey squirrels, rats, magpies, or for food such as rabbits or woodpigeon, and STRICTLY nothing else, 'sport' my arse
Maybe you try and run a grouse moor and we will se how u struggle to produce a good season if you have pests killing the animal that you spend all your time trying to manage them. You have to kill pests
if theres so many birds of prey being illegally killed why is my local grouse moor constantly being circled in the sky above with ever growing numbers of buzards
Then you're very lucky. A study published in February which followed the breeding status of Hen Harriers in NE Scotland (dominated by grouse moors) 1980-2014 showed a clear pattern - in an area with a potential population of 100 pairs of Hen Harrier, numbers peaked at only c25 pairs in the late 1990s followed by a catastrophic decline to fewer than 5 pairs at the end of the study. The low numbers & poor productivity persisted even when vole numbers were high. The authors were in no doubt that the reason was illegal persecution & grouse management practises. Similar figures can be found for Buzzards & Peregrine on grouse moors.
Iv just read a Botham v Packam issue on the viability of the hen harrier population, so I come to a relevant channel, (with not many views) and what do I find? More thumbs down than thumbs up! Is Packam a prat? Is he an expert on countryside matters? Was his stealth tactic to remove covoids fro the general licence beneficial to lambing ewes and song birds? I would think not, apart from being a prat of course.
Target those doing the illegal trapping and make shoots licensed. But to call for a ban an entire sport because of this? Dumb. Oh of course, it's mostly the rich that enjoy this sport, so it should be banned just like fox hunting.
I'm a vegetarian but I can see the difference between the poultry industry and the grouse industry. I don't think the rarest of raptors are slaughtered so that Chickens get put on tables, nor are mammals inhumanely trapped and subsequently killed. The fact that I know of nobody who eats Grouse makes the comparison even more daft.
+David Beardsley rarity and any argument on conservation grounds is another issue. My point was that if you're concerned for bird welfare, there are much greater violations than this and on a whole different scale (not to say I remotely agree with snaring of anything! Just offering some balance)
That's a non sequitur. It is not mutually exclusive to care about the environment and the persecution of animals, illegally, whilst eating ethically sourced meat. Try again.
trapping raptors is wrong, but grouse shooting preserves that wild unspoilt habitat. Ban grouse shooting because of isolated incidents of illegal trapping.......madness !
How can Grouse moors ever be classed as unspoiled habitat? How are these isolated incidents when we should have over 300 breeding pairs in England and only have 3? We have 1% of the number we should have and that's before taking Buzzards, Red Kites, Peregrines, Short Eared Owls etc into it.
+Mick What makes a grouse moor spoiled? Is it the management side of it? heather moorland is rarer than rainforest, unmanaged it will revert to scrubland which we have enough of, endangering a lot of specialist moorland flora and fauna. Who says there should be 300 pairs of hen harriers and when did we ever have that many, if that's the case there should be a whole lot more on RSPB moors because no keeper anywhere in the country is killing that number of protected birds and getting away with it. As for buzzards they are now the most common bird of prey and it has been written that they are increasing faster than any other bird! Red kites are now more numerous than they have been for a very long time due to the success of re introduction programmes, which in the North at least begun on a shooting estate at Harewood. I think you will find more pigeon fanciers who dislike peregrines than keepers. It's not all doom and gloom for raptor species much as you like to paint it that way.
perhaps unspoilt is the wrong term, maybe unique is more accurate. Grouse need heather so no grouse no preservation of heather moorland. it would probably be rough grazing for sheep otherwise
The distribution of birds of prey and long term studies of their populations all point towards an absence across large areas of intensive grouse moors that can only be explained by illegal persecution. Five male Hen Harriers just don't decide to slope off when they've got young in the nest and radio tracking devices don't just disappear (along with the birds they were attached to).
I think Grouse moors are spoiled because they're usually tree-less and bleak. They're surrounded by drainage ditches which are usually straddled by wooden bridges which have a trap half way across. I honestly see nothing on them except for Red Grouse and maybe the odd Black Headed Gull flying overhead or a good few Meadow Pipit. You can stand and look around 360 degrees and see nothing but different shades of heather, some in flower, some burned. The Joint Nature Conservation Committee mentioned that we had enough suitable habitat for between 323 - 340 pairs in England, the report was JNCC Report No 441. Grouse moors draw Hen Harriers and other raptors in to them because of the abundance of food. The gamekeepers are creating their own problems by artificially building up a huge stock of the Grouse. Buzzards may be the most common bird of prey but that is only because they are now recovering from populations being artificially kept low and Red Kites are being killed but doing well where they are allowed to and not so well where they are still persecuted. Red Kites are no threat to anybody or anything unless it is either dead or a worm. A Red Kite is a big ball of fathers and has talons which are fairly weak and they can't open a carcass and usually wait for something else to do that.
There are no Eagles on grouse moors? That's not strictly true as you managed to film an eagle chick being reared at the nest for Springwatch earlier in the year I believe. Unfortunately I agree a minute number of keepers do resort to such tactics but they are shunned by the industry and if caught are very unlikely to find work again.
He said "many" grouse moors and he's right. Our uplands have been stripped of their natural vegetation and what little fauna remains is a fraction of the variety and numbers that the land should support.
+Graham Ramsay So what are you going to replace the globally important "rarer than rain forest" heather moorland with? Is this the plan that Mr Packham keeps on about? Are you going to let it return to scrub and woodland which we appear to have plenty of compared to moors?
+Mick Going on that logic they should also be nesting on moors looked after by the RSPB and they don't nest there either. is that because they are trapping them as well? No it isn't, it's because the moors themselves are unable to support them with the prey species they require unfortunately.
Chris, you have not got a clue what you are talking about. Learn all the facts on both sides then try to argue properly. Thee most one sided person I think ever to be allowed to have a say on a subject you know nothing about. Answer a few questions honestly. Why do the hills that all the raptors live in look the way they do? When you find a pair of successful breading harriers, how closely have they nested to a successful grouse hill? What would happen to raptors numbers on hill ground (moorland for south of the border) if sporting estates closed the doors tomorrow? You can not except the truth. Fancy going toe to toe on actual facts............ come on.
Do you realise how many people get employment during the grouse shooting season? What you are saying, does not happen on the majority of grouse moors. You are asking people to sign/join something, these people should go to the moors first to see for themselves what one is like. If there was no grouse shooting you would not be able to walk the hill due to the heather being so high and the list could go on. Chris, do you live near any moor land?
I live near the Trough of Bowland. It has very low biodiversity because of the so called conservation by gamekeepers.It was fabulous 15 years ago before the new Gamekeepers destroyed it.
Please do not sweep the mistakes of an idiot gamekeeper under the industry as we are the ones who try our hardest to make sure rogue gamekeepers are rooted out I know that it is hard for people who do not understand country life and the ideas of field to fork these petitions are not needed we should work on other more pressing laws rather than try to meddle with what we know nothing of. There is know need to create more laws to trap ourselves in
Do your research pal. Mossdale isn’t in West Yorkshire nor would we see more birds of prey if we banned shooting
Why wouldn't we see mor BOP if we banned shooting? Many shooters I know refer to them as 'Hooked vermin' and 'Brown Crows'
why would you call him pal, mush? fake as the day is long. the end is nigh, Newman face.
@@sheldream981 stop talking shit
@@jungletiger1900 bullshit
@@jungletiger1900 thanks for info. That's so sad but people need to hear the truth init. Protect the predators to help the food chain.
The Government has responded to the petition you signed - “Protect grouse Moors and grouse shooting”.
Government responded:
Grouse shooting is a legitimate activity that provides economic benefits, jobs and investment in some of our most remote areas and can offer important benefits for wildlife and habitat conservation.
A report by the UK shooting community (Public & Corporate Economic Consultants report 2014: The Value of Shooting) concludes that the overall environmental and economic impact of game bird shooting is positive; the industry has estimated that £250 million per year is spent on management activities substantially benefiting conservation. For grouse shooting in particular, according to the Moorland Association, estates in England and Wales spent £52.5 million on managing 149 grouse moors for shooting in 2010. Scottish landowners manage a further 150 moors for shooting grouse. The industry also supports 1,520 full time equivalent jobs and is worth £97.7 million across Great Britain.
Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for delivering a range of valuable “ecosystem services”, including food and fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities for health and wellbeing. The Government is committed to helping create a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including by protecting peatlands through measures such as the Peatland Code.
The Government welcomes the proactive approach taken by game keeping organisations to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation, for example through the British Association for Shooting and Conservation’s green shoots initiative.
The Government recognises the benefits that grouse shooting, and shooting more widely, bring to individuals, the environment and the rural economy. It is for these reasons that the Government believes shooting and other country pursuits such as hunting and fishing should be protected.
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Click this link to view the response online:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164851?reveal_response=yes
The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.
The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
How is eradicating and poisoning birds of prey having a positive effect on the ecosystem exactly??
@@theotheseaeagle because that isn't a result of grouse shooting, like roadkill isn't a result of people driving cars responsibly. Point the finger at the dickheads that do kill birds of prey and try to look into how the number of birds of prey on grouse shooting mores is up to four times higher than moors that are not managed for shooting.
@@JoshQ-jp8dx 6 buzzards have already been killed by gamekeepers and Dorset and several recently reintroduced white tailed eagles have also been poisoned. Most gamekeepers that kill birds of prey don’t get prosecuted and they continue to do it. The only way to eliminate it is to either ban driven grouse shooting outright or regulate it better and take it more seriously.
@@theotheseaeagle Banning peoples rights will not fix the problems caused by people who dont follow the rules. Ban grouse shooting (just like shooting birds of prey was banned), and all you'll get is an unknown number of grouse being shot, with no help to boost their numbers and no medication for disease, no track of how they are killed, far less reports of these birds of prey which, most of the time, are found and pointed out to authorities BY the shooting community and a whole lot more crime going on. Banning a benefit to our environment will not stop something that's already been banned. So the option is to find out how this is happening and why, because most missing birds of prey are automatically reported to be shot, forgetting things like disease, competition for food, fights and natural causes that will come to every living thing. Not forgetting, birds of prey that have actually been shot. The number compared to other deaths is obviously quite small, meaning that preventing this should not be a difficult task and is mostly successful
It's already illegal to kill protected birds of prey it has nothing to do with the petition,you are trying to ban grouse shooting under the guise of it protecting endangered birds.
The laws are not working and something different needs to be done. Banning DRIVEN Grouse shooting will end the persecution on driven Grouse moors.
Banning grouse shooting would protect endangered birds so lets ban it. Less killing all round - hurrah!
The police. They could prosecute everyone who took part in an illegal shoot. The landowner, the keepers, the shooters, the beaters, the loaders, the agents who advertised and arranged the shoot, all of them.
And subsidy payments would be reclaimed under the cross compliance regulations.
And shotgun and firearm certificates would be revoked
Somehow I don't think it would be necessary though. If driven grouse shooting was banned, the ban wouldn't be broken. Too easily detected and too much at stake.
I was really referring to the comment by someoldblackguy who was saying Chris Packham was trying to get grouse shooting banned under the guise of protecting endangered birds when it's already illegal to kill birds. I think banning grouse shooting WOULD give more protection to birds of prey. As you say though, there is always a problem of upholding laws - particularly animal welfare or wildlife ones. We do get the occasional prosecution for fox hunting and badger baiting
but there are no doubt many wildlife crimes going unpunished. Then
again, there are many crimes going unpunished full stop.
As I didn't care for the 'please engage brain here' comment though, I will bow out and leave it to you more intelligent types with engaged brains to discuss.
These rich fuckers do not care, only want to shoot something. No different here in the U. S. Assholes everywhere, do not know anything about hunting for food or respect of nature. Ashame
Have to admit, I was with you until the last sentence. I'm not sure that makes sense. Want to raise funds to increase awareness? Count me in. Want to raise funds to help prosecute those that commit these offences? Makes sense to me. Condemn a whole industry, a way of life for some, an income for the beaters, take grouse pretty much off the menu? Sorry Chris, you've lost me there...
You're right, it is unfair to punish everyone for the actions of a few. But the impact of these 'few' grouse moors impacts wildlife populations hugely, which in turn affects people interested in watching wildlife all across Britain, not just those living near grouse moors. It is a complicated problem, hence why it feels like no progress is being made to solve it; this may not seem to be a completely fair solution but it would be a huge step forward. If I have failed to convince you, I really suggest a bit of online research about Hen Harriers in Britain, or read Mark Avery's book, Inglorious.
Sean - I used to think that too. But you need to watch the whole series of videos on different aspects of driven grouse shooting - and then you might decide, like Chris, and me, that there isn't much wriggle room for this hobby of killing birds for fun. It's unsustainable, ecologically damaging and necessarily underpinned by wildlife crime. And also this is an industry (remember - it's just a hobby really) which has not cleaned up its act over decades. I'd say things have got worse. So the time for giving them a nudge has long gone - it's time to tell driven grouse shooting to push off. Please sign the petition that will get this debated in parliament petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125003
+Mark Avery as a foodie that wants the choice to eat grouse, pheasant, quail, woodcock, wild goose, partridge, etc what is the alternative to getting them out of the sky and into the pot? It's overly simplistic to describe it as 'killing birds for fun' when for many generations hunting was what put dinner on the table. Unfortunately modern intensive agriculture, far from being the 'solution' has too many issues of its own and is also harmful to the environment. As the video says, the law already exists to prohibit this practice and make it illegal, so use resources to help its enforcement. Much easier, more achievable, more realistic, than condemning a whole industry or trying to ban the whole activity because of the actions of a few.
You seem to try and distance yourself from generalising and then proceed to generalise enormously. "Just a hobby", "underpinned by wildlife crime", "things have got worse". The use of poisons like strychnine was once widespread throughout the UK and is now, apart from a law breaking minority, almost non existent. With regard to trapping, are we to believe that the RSPB undertakes no predator control whatsoever? It is an industry, and one of the few that actually has some benefit to the environment. Banning grouse shooting would be an absolute disaster for the moors, its wildlife, and for the communities that survive because of it.
+reuben Hunter the rspb cull predators on there reserves that's fact they pay the nasty people as Chris calls them to shoot corvids and foxes etc fact look at the freedom of information act they release.their a business not a charity as well as a lobby group.cats kill more birds than hunters Chris never says ban them why? .
Where is the footage with the keeper setting pole traps the gym is full of it
is this the man who said we should stop looking for the cure of cancer and look after the world.
Actually due to the billion dollar drug industry, there WILL NEVER BE A CURE for Cancer because they should actually instead of research on the CURE, find the CAUSE but as with mental illness, the EVIL GREEDY Tories do not believe in funding Mental Health Research and there are billions to made from drugs......so in a sense, Chris Packham is not entirely wrong (and my Mother died from a rare Cancer. She said she would die for what animals suffer.)
Yes he did, & that is where he lost me, don't even listen too his bleating anymore shame because i more than respect his knowledge.
Yes if we nurtured the Natural world instead of what humans usually do which is have the attitude "what is in it for me " or "what profit is in it " then just maybe looking after everything in that way Cancer would be eradicated ..is it any wonder there is so much Cancer the amount of ,pollution,chemical being used . this is were he was coming form I believe. Take care of Nature & everything will take care of us ...simple .
Humans should leave nature alone they have no right to get involved
we're apart of nature so we have every right to be involved with it. We have to eat plants and animals to live and because of this we can never get uninvolved with nature.
I don’t get why we even need to persecute birds of prey and other predators. Grouse and hen harriers as well as stoats foxes and weasels have lived side by side for thousands of years. Surely if they had a negative impact on grouse numbers grouse and other bird species would have died out a long while before we started managing moors
No, you can have predators reducing prey numbers without killing them off. Wolves and deer live side by side in many countries, but that's not to say that removing wolves won't increase deer populations (hence why there is in many areas little natural control of deer population in the UK today).
That's also not to say that I'm opposed to grouse shooting.
If there is evidence that protected birds have been killed , prosecute .
Put up or shut up .
if only the police were interested. They are not. In Lancashire the police investigate people trying to protect nesting peregrines
I saw a man speeding yesterday. I'm going to start a campaign to ban cars. That'll teach him!
Vastly confused by the comments here. He appears to be saying 'we set traps up that put birds in phenomenal amounts of pain, that we wouldn't wish on anyone of our loved ones, prior to them enduring a slow, miserable death, so...we probably shouldn't do that'. Why is everyone against that, as it seems relatively common-sensical? (genuinely intrigued by the way, as I have little knowledge on the subject. Are grouse evil in some way or...?)
The RSPB cannot campaign against shooting of game birds because its Royal Charter explicitly forbids it. Just think about that for a moment,
When something like this is trending on RUclips whilst Justin Wren and his fight for the forgotten project is relatively unknown it really makes me question our priorities as a species.
whys this tending
I ask the same thing about Pokemon
Inb4 this petition takes the world by storm
I was walking through the Pennines and found multiple traps such as that on walls and bridges. It's quite dangerous for walkers and if I'd known they would be in the grass I would have been more cautious to go over fields of heather. Thankfully nothing happened. I say ban them.
You probably came across legally set traps for stoats and weasels the law states as long as the traps are covered by a wire cage to prevent access by non target species they are allowed by law. Mr Packham is referring to illegally set traps the like of which you will probably never see.
Adrian - since you sound like you know a bit about this, you must know that ring Ousels, Dippers, leverets and even sheep are caught in these traps. The by-catch is pretty disgusting.
+Mark Avery unfortunately accidents do happen with most things, I'm almost sure you will have inadvertently ended the life of a bird or mammal while pursuing a perfectly legal occupation (driving) you will obviously do your utmost to avoid such occurrences, Similarly no decent law abiding keeper wants his traps to catch anything other than vermin and will set his traps correctly in locations accordingly to avoid such situations.
The problem is though that if you are a keeper on a grouse moor and you are expected to provide enough grouse to make the moor economically viable, otherwise you risk losing your job, your house and your vehicle, you might be tempted to regard hen harriers as vermin.
It's not like that view would be at odds with the long tradition of game keeping after all.
then ban the traps but not the sport..
Speaking from a great background of experience, the problem is not with the sport but individual gamekeepers and there practices. Why sign the petition when you can simply go after the culprit in the wrong and punish him accordingly by notifying the gun captain of the practices which occur. I've had a few run ins with sly gamekeepers, but upon seeing bad practices, I've alerted the gun captain (who is usually the man or woman running the shoot for those out there who know absolutely nothing) and it's resulted in the removal of corrupt individuals. Yes I've shot game, yes I've plucked, prepared and ate my own efforts. But I do not condone in such illegal practices, nor do I appreciate a twat standing in a field thinking he knows the half of it. These grouse he speaks of later are sold on as produce, so no meat is wasted. And the birds are only shot upon flying towards a gun.. any other kill is deemed bad sport and those individuals are usually banned from the shoot or fined. Before I have notifications flooding in of how it's inhumane, have you seen how cows are industrialised, or how farmers treat animals in confined conditions which get sold off to large supermarkets. Once you have witnessed a unit full of hens, then come at me with a valid point. Don't do a twat move like the fellow in the video and complain of a topic without showing two sides of the story or even having an individual who even shoots in the video. It's all one sided and aimed at banning a sport, when in reality we should be banning bad practice. But if I was to be put in this video, and if I was to record my venturings in certain places and the sport being fully carried out, there'd be alot of different opinions. Stop illegak traps, but don't stop a sport.
Sorry of I've gone off topic ever too much, it's just annoyed me ever so slightly, seeing such hogwash in my suggested videos. Especially once I've come back from my shift :)
That method has been tried for years upon years, with no progress. Everyone blames someone else, and it's very very rare to get a conviction.
There are also a lot of other ecological issues caused by driven grouse shooting in particular - this is not just a "cruelty" argument by animal rights activists, it is an environmental one.
+MagpieRat
what are the other proven by evidence issues then enlighten us.
I'm sorry if facts get in the way of your bleeding heart narrative. Remind me again; how many hen harriers do we currently have? Remind me again; what do hen harriers feed on? Remind me again; what do gamekeepers do to yield the most grouse in their man made monocultures? Your 'whataboutism' about cows just shows how brittle your argument is, because deep down you know this is a barbaric pursuit, which directly impacts the environment in negative ways.
Be funny if he caught his fingers in the Fenn trap😂😂😂😂😂
Oh no poor birdies, i love birdies soooo muchhh please dont hurt the pooor birdies ;(((((( I think im going to cryyyyy :((((
Found a soul yet?
David Beardsley What do you mean?
lol
another sick comment, get a life u idiot
michele oman What do you mean?
Don't blame the actions of a minority on the whole of us
The industry itself needs to get a grip here. There is nothing wrong with grouse shooting per se (wild game has had a FAR better life and death than the poor factory farmed chickens we eat), but it's the money involvement which drives this demand for more birds.
Agree, seen inside a battery chicken farm so know, as always money leads to horrible shit
Choppington - you sound very fair. the grouse shooting industry (remember it's just a hobby really) has had decades to clean up its act and failed spectacularly. things have got worse not better. It's time to kick iintensive grouse shooting into touch petition.parliament.uk/petitions/125003
Most of the illegal activity will go undetected and most of what is detected will go unsolved, whichever agency is involved, simply because of the vast, remote, isolated and sparsely inhabited nature of the areas involved.
That's why there's no harriers breeding on grouse moors. Simply put, the keepers know there's every chance they'll get away with it.
Do you honestly think banning grouse shooting will stop the persecution? then think again. It’s the individuals not the shooting of grouse. The majority of gamekeeper are active in conservation, why do you think birds of prey like grouse moors, yep because the habitat is managed and they like the managed habitat. Remove the grouse shooting results in removing gamekeepers that removes vermin control, reduces grouse population and hence reduces birds of prey. On another theme, Hen Harriers ground nesting and without vermin control the numbers will plummet further. Chris is an animals rights fruit cake along with the loonie Oddie, ( president LACS) they are destroying the RSPB.
It’s nothing to do with grouse it’s the fact that they poison birds of prey. Maybe if they stopped killing birds of prey (which is illegal anyway but still happens) then they could still shoot grouse
big fan of yours since I was a kid. all the more for this. thanks Chris
You got no clue
I think ye'r making a big mistake pushing to have grouse shooting/managed moorelands banned. Here in Ireland, mooreland management is almost non-exist yet most of our ground nesting species (including red grouse and harrier) are in serious trouble. Our two biggest conservation success projects involving ground nesting birds involve managed land with predator control- lough Boora grey partridge and Ballybrack red grouse project
No no no. Grouse are not threatened and birds of prey have a very minimal impact on their populations.
finally, someone who understands how nature works
If this traps birds, surely it should be easy for me to get a girlfriend???
I tried it but the birds just ignored my pole
That is a shame
sick comment
Cheers mate
@@michelleoates7523 Humorous comment
I have signed, good luck.
Fudge packham
Hawes is in North Yorkshire not West Yorkshire …. Tool 😂
Traps are disgusting no matter what animal it's intended for
just because of one driven estate why would u try and ban all of them
It isn't one estate.
+Mick but it's not all of them either
I wouldn't argue with you on that point, it's a pity the ones who aren't involved are dragged into this, it really is.
The pace brothers of the into the wilderness series and podcast are wanting a debate with you about the pros and cons of grouse shooting, why have you not responded to them Chris? Surely if you feel as passionate as you say about having it banned you wouldn't mind the publicity? Or do you fear it may sway some folk the other way?
Hey Luke, by no means am I an activist but I can't think of any other pro about grouse hunting other than wealthy folk have fun. What are in your opinion other pros? Cheers.
+Al Gil online rants and rages could go on forever between the two sides. why not have well known figures have a debate made available to the public? so they can make their own minds up either way.
+Luke Liddle sure thing, I don't think anyone should be forced a view point. However I do agree that (some) animals or birds need controlling For example on farms where livestock are being taken . I think the ways and means in which it is done though should be humane. I don't see why birds should be targeted because its harming an attraction! so not only are the birds being bred to be blown out of the sky or off the ground killed in-humanely so are innocent birds who don't need to be killed.
I'm all for people having fun and people protecting other animals but not killing living things because it's getting in the way of a good shot.
Peace.
It may have escaped your notice, but both Packham and Avery invite any representative of the Driven Grouse Shooting industry being held in open debate at the Rutland Birdfair this month. Any takers? You bet there hasn't been a single one, strange that...
+Pieter Verheij I think having it on neutral grounds would be a better idea,
Idk it just is probably because it's something worth talking about idk
The likes of Chris Packham and his ilk of which also include Mark Avery, Bill Oddie and many more. What does their particular role involve apart from wanting all things within the countryside banned. "Chris Packam is totally driven by money, his girlfriend owns a zoo he nowadays refuses to use any binocular that supports their use for hunting or any type of fieldsports. So he will not use the likes of Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski. "Ithink he's going too far nowadays! I've been on several moors of which are shot over and the birdlife is wonderful on many of these moors. The people who say they're isn't any wildlife are either blind or don't want to admit that Grouse moors produce more wildlife than the places of refuge owned by the R.S.P.B. Also, our opponents don't provide their members w ith the details regarding the R.S.P.B on the controling foxes on their reserves."I don't suppose we'll ever see eye to eye, however, for the birdlife and various other wildlife we should unite together, not keep scoring aimless points at each other!
Without the grouseshooting, the grouse and other groundbirds, snowhares etc. are doomed. Without the incoming money from the shoots, means the end of a habitat. Who will finance these habitats, when the moneyflow from the shoots are broken down? The wildlife trust? The taxpayer? Would there be enough money then for all the moors? Maintaining this sort of habitat cost a lot of money. Money that you need to preserve the wildlife and his "natural" habitat. If you take your hands of "nature" in a man made world, you lose a lot of wildlife and habitat in that progress. Animals and plants go extinct in that way. If money can be raised for protecting deu shooting and for working year round, for maintaining the moors, what's the problem then? The red- and black grouse and a lot of other ground breeders are more scares in Europe, than foxes and other predators(exept some bird of prey of cource). If everything is according to law and if you don't only think about the shooting and your own emotions. Then you maybe realize that they do a pretty good job preserving a precious habitat and the wildlife that go along whit that. When good things happen, for the wrong or right reasons...they're still good things. At the end of the day, to preserve these precious wildlife and habitats, there must be a lot of money needed to accomplish this. (My English isn't very good, but my point is made.)
Driven grouse moors are not natural. They are manicured bio deserts managed so a few psychopaths can kill birds.
There’s plenty of moors which are no longer used for grouse shooting and they do just fine and actually are more biodiverse. Driven grouse shooting isn’t the only thing keeping moors alive (which in reality they aren’t they are just killing all the other wildlife) considering you can earn nearly double the amount of money through ecotourism etc
@@sheldream981 These 'deserts' contain rare species that you will not find anywhere else, and the ones you can find in other places are normally far more abundant. moors are huge meadows that benefit our smaller species. Have you heard of the heather beetle? Of course you haven't, you think the one habitat in this country that's actually RARER than rainforest is a psychopath desert. It is far more natural than anything chris have ever done in his life, including his 'animal prison of a zoo made for rich powerful psychos like him to use them for entertainment'..
At least you didnt disable the comment section Chris so at least opposing opinions can be voiced unlike most anti hunting advocates.
don't worry Chris, they are shooting all raptors on most estates anyway.
Keep fighten Chris !
No!!!!!!
Got things to say, please don't hate me for it, just a practical thing, which i hate that exists; if heather moors that support red grouse aren't paid for by shooting them, what replaces the grouse moors? Red Grouse are endemic to British isles, it would cost a lot of money to manage the heather moors without shooting income, i know my stuff; worked as a gamekeeper after all, just couldn't deal with idea of looking after life just to see it being extinguished for no logical reason ( grouse and pheasant have no meat on them and taste shit!), also couldn't deal with polarised attitude from both sides when there are WAY more bigger things they could focus their attention and money on, like, er cancer? homeless people, aids, parents who cant afford school meals, loss of rural buses, etc, these people who can afford to shoot on the 12th are supposedly amongst the "1%" right? fuck them, but i will finish with this: i do shoot, but only vermin such as grey squirrels, rats, magpies, or for food such as rabbits or woodpigeon, and STRICTLY nothing else, 'sport' my arse
An interesting perspective.
Maybe you try and run a grouse moor and we will se how u struggle to produce a good season if you have pests killing the animal that you spend all your time trying to manage them. You have to kill pests
a 'good season' is short hand for unnaturally high grouse populations leading to intense parasitised grouse and an unhealthy biodesert.
if theres so many birds of prey being illegally killed why is my local grouse moor constantly being circled in the sky above with ever growing numbers of buzards
probably scavenging on all the trapped wildlife...
+callum no there not because the traps are in tunnels that hide the animals from walker and scavengers
Then you're very lucky. A study published in February which followed the breeding status of Hen Harriers in NE Scotland (dominated by grouse moors) 1980-2014 showed a clear pattern - in an area with a potential population of 100 pairs of Hen Harrier, numbers peaked at only c25 pairs in the late 1990s followed by a catastrophic decline to fewer than 5 pairs at the end of the study. The low numbers & poor productivity persisted even when vole numbers were high. The authors were in no doubt that the reason was illegal persecution & grouse management practises. Similar figures can be found for Buzzards & Peregrine on grouse moors.
"I can see some buzzards, so that makes the completely depleted hen harrier population a non issue." Thanks for that.
Iv just read a Botham v Packam issue on the viability of the hen harrier population, so I come to a relevant channel, (with not many views) and what do I find? More thumbs down than thumbs up!
Is Packam a prat? Is he an expert on countryside matters? Was his stealth tactic to remove covoids fro the general licence beneficial to lambing ewes and song birds?
I would think not, apart from being a prat of course.
Chris your the man! Just signed it. I had no idea anything like that still went on in the uk.
Target those doing the illegal trapping and make shoots licensed. But to call for a ban an entire sport because of this? Dumb. Oh of course, it's mostly the rich that enjoy this sport, so it should be banned just like fox hunting.
Shooting animals for fun is about as sporting as tiddlywinks.
black light poster boys; "if the animals had guns........"
Game keepers contribute to creating the perfect environment for raptors and conservationists not murderers. I will not be signing the petition
well done Chris ... definitely signing this petition.
Shout out to the heather moorland plagioclimax
Anyone signing better be sure they haven't eaten a chicken sandwich from Tesco recently
I'm a vegetarian but I can see the difference between the poultry industry and the grouse industry. I don't think the rarest of raptors are slaughtered so that Chickens get put on tables, nor are mammals inhumanely trapped and subsequently killed. The fact that I know of nobody who eats Grouse makes the comparison even more daft.
+David Beardsley rarity and any argument on conservation grounds is another issue. My point was that if you're concerned for bird welfare, there are much greater violations than this and on a whole different scale (not to say I remotely agree with snaring of anything! Just offering some balance)
That's a non sequitur. It is not mutually exclusive to care about the environment and the persecution of animals, illegally, whilst eating ethically sourced meat. Try again.
I love Cwis Peckham! he's the head embellishe'r for the RSPB !!!.
if only. The RSPB are cowards in this respect
It's the weason why
Can u put a link up 4 this petition Chris so we can sign it,thanks.
The link is in the video description.
+Brian yeah i can't click on it on my phone.
Stronger laws and enforcement needed with appropriate long jail sentences to stop psychos from committing such a cruel crimes.
Just signed, thanks Chris, keep up the good work!
These moors are wildlife deserts, created by overgrazing and the activity of selfish elite landlords.
Brofist
trapping raptors is wrong, but grouse shooting preserves that wild unspoilt habitat. Ban grouse shooting because of isolated incidents of illegal trapping.......madness !
How can Grouse moors ever be classed as unspoiled habitat? How are these isolated incidents when we should have over 300 breeding pairs in England and only have 3? We have 1% of the number we should have and that's before taking Buzzards, Red Kites, Peregrines, Short Eared Owls etc into it.
+Mick What makes a grouse moor spoiled? Is it the management side of it? heather moorland is rarer than rainforest, unmanaged it will revert to scrubland which we have enough of, endangering a lot of specialist moorland flora and fauna. Who says there should be 300 pairs of hen harriers and when did we ever have that many, if that's the case there should be a whole lot more on RSPB moors because no keeper anywhere in the country is killing that number of protected birds and getting away with it. As for buzzards they are now the most common bird of prey and it has been written that they are increasing faster than any other bird! Red kites are now more numerous than they have been for a very long time due to the success of re introduction programmes, which in the North at least begun on a shooting estate at Harewood. I think you will find more pigeon fanciers who dislike peregrines than keepers. It's not all doom and gloom for raptor species much as you like to paint it that way.
perhaps unspoilt is the wrong term, maybe unique is more accurate. Grouse need heather so no grouse no preservation of heather moorland. it would probably be rough grazing for sheep otherwise
The distribution of birds of prey and long term studies of their populations all point towards an absence across large areas of intensive grouse moors that can only be explained by illegal persecution. Five male Hen Harriers just don't decide to slope off when they've got young in the nest and radio tracking devices don't just disappear (along with the birds they were attached to).
I think Grouse moors are spoiled because they're usually tree-less and bleak. They're surrounded by drainage ditches which are usually straddled by wooden bridges which have a trap half way across. I honestly see nothing on them except for Red Grouse and maybe the odd Black Headed Gull flying overhead or a good few Meadow Pipit. You can stand and look around 360 degrees and see nothing but different shades of heather, some in flower, some burned.
The Joint Nature Conservation Committee mentioned that we had enough suitable habitat for between 323 - 340 pairs in England, the report was JNCC Report No 441.
Grouse moors draw Hen Harriers and other raptors in to them because of the abundance of food. The gamekeepers are creating their own problems by artificially building up a huge stock of the Grouse.
Buzzards may be the most common bird of prey but that is only because they are now recovering from populations being artificially kept low and Red Kites are being killed but doing well where they are allowed to and not so well where they are still persecuted.
Red Kites are no threat to anybody or anything unless it is either dead or a worm. A Red Kite is a big ball of fathers and has talons which are fairly weak and they can't open a carcass and usually wait for something else to do that.
There are no Eagles on grouse moors? That's not strictly true as you managed to film an eagle chick being reared at the nest for Springwatch earlier in the year I believe. Unfortunately I agree a minute number of keepers do resort to such tactics but they are shunned by the industry and if caught are very unlikely to find work again.
He said "many" grouse moors and he's right. Our uplands have been stripped of their natural vegetation and what little fauna remains is a fraction of the variety and numbers that the land should support.
+Graham Ramsay So what are you going to replace the globally important "rarer than rain forest" heather moorland with? Is this the plan that Mr Packham keeps on about? Are you going to let it return to scrub and woodland which we appear to have plenty of compared to moors?
If it was only "a minute number of keepers" we'd have them nesting on English Grouse moors and we don't.
+Mick Going on that logic they should also be nesting on moors looked after by the RSPB and they don't nest there either. is that because they are trapping them as well? No it isn't, it's because the moors themselves are unable to support them with the prey species they require unfortunately.
RSPB Geltsdale.
adwww.rspb.org.uk/news/421272-hen-harriers-breed-at-rspb-geltsdale
Signed and shared my friend ✌🏼️
Bit edgy
They aren’t a horrible trap when you use them right
Any form of hunting should be banned. Too many humans, not enough animals.
Chris does not like animals in cages but his girlfriend has a zoo
Signed, this doesn't need to happen any more
look at all that land no wildlife no nothing, Boring, wildlife should be dancing on it
you dont know much about wildlife if you think they would stand around when packham is whining nearby
Sort your lisp out
pepesempire yes
Dont listen to a word this ‘man’ says
No need to remove the hunting I don't suppose, just remove the ability to remove the traps so It becomes harder and fizzles out naturally :)
You should be band
just signed it. I hope it reached the target.
Drunk driving is illegal, yet many more drive drunk than illegally trap. You going to campaign to make cars and driving illegal, too?
Lol you have no subscribers
'Looks at your channel'
+James Parker well lil twat if I did post videos I would have em
+Bob Saget sure
+James Parker well I see you got a whole 2 subs from posting somebody else's videos . Post your own videos and see how far they carry bitch
Good ban it and all snares and traps of any nature trust me I will be supporting any person interested to help animals
Chris, you have not got a clue what you are talking about. Learn all the facts on both sides then try to argue properly. Thee most one sided person I think ever to be allowed to have a say on a subject you know nothing about. Answer a few questions honestly. Why do the hills that all the raptors live in look the way they do? When you find a pair of successful breading harriers, how closely have they nested to a successful grouse hill? What would happen to raptors numbers on hill ground (moorland for south of the border) if sporting estates closed the doors tomorrow? You can not except the truth. Fancy going toe to toe on actual facts............ come on.
BTW I will
Signed, good luck.
Do you realise how many people get employment during the grouse shooting season? What you are saying, does not happen on the majority of grouse moors. You are asking people to sign/join something, these people should go to the moors first to see for themselves what one is like. If there was no grouse shooting you would not be able to walk the hill due to the heather being so high and the list could go on. Chris, do you live near any moor land?
I live near the Trough of Bowland. It has very low biodiversity because of the so called conservation by gamekeepers.It was fabulous 15 years ago before the new Gamekeepers destroyed it.
Please do not sweep the mistakes of an idiot gamekeeper under the industry as we are the ones who try our hardest to make sure rogue gamekeepers are rooted out I know that it is hard for people who do not understand country life and the ideas of field to fork these petitions are not needed we should work on other more pressing laws rather than try to meddle with what we know nothing of. There is know need to create more laws to trap ourselves in
How do we end the persecution?
the current laws are being flouted by many gamekeepers
Chris packham your awesome!!!!!