I lived in Milwaukie at the time of the Orange Line construction, a common talking point was "it's gonna decrease property values". In reality, the opposite happened because Milwaukie became more desirable. Also, Milwaukie generally supported the Orange Line, it was unincorporated Clackamas county that was opposed.
It doesn't help that even to this day, people spout straight up lies. Less than a month ago I read a comment from someone claiming that the Orange Line cost TriMet "$7.9 billion" and the people living in the place it was going didn't even get to vote! In reality, none of that is true. The people who actually live near the Orange Line did in fact get several votes, and the Orange Line cost was $1.49 billion (far below the claimed $7.9 billion), of which TriMet only paid $490 million. (The rest was covered by state DOT and the Federal Government.) In fact, the Orange Line completed ahead of schedule AND under budget.
@@TheCriminalViolin Aren't you the guy on the other TriMet video that straight up lied about the orange line costing $7.9 billion then disappeared when I called you out with receipts? EDIT: Yes, you are. It was the Cascadia HSR video. You straight lied about the cost, and when I called you out on it you just pretended you never saw it. My guess is you're straight lying now too.
Thanks for promoting our city’s MAX system! It gets a lot of hate locally, but those of us who use transit regularly know how important it is. Hope you had a great time!
I honestly feel like the whole "all it does is transport them damn criminals to new areas to rob" sentiment is why cities like baltimore have terrible transit. I'm hoping that changes soon because reliable public transit is crucial for those who can't afford a car or don't have a place to park one. There's a lot more to it but that's one of the more prominent things about it.
Now that it’s actually been built, they should really just rename the whole thing the Yellow Line (or Orange Line). The lack of clarity honestly might turn away more riders than it attracts.
i live here, everything i’ve heard surrounding it was “new lines” are eligible for federal funds, “extensions” aren’t. if that’s the case why they don’t rename it now i’m not sure.
The biggest problems are really that: 1. The line doesn't go to Oregon City (due to classism like Thom said) 2. The line doesn't go through/under Sellwood, instead going to the east around the neighborhood through a golf course (I'm 99% this was to save costs as Sellwood has no wide streets, and the line would have to go underground if it were going through the neighorhood) 3. The line doesn't go to Vancouver (this would help the "Yellow Line" section more than the "Orange Line", but the Interstate bridge can take half an hour to cross at rush hour, meaning any rail connection to Vancouver would boost the entire MAX system's ridership)
I work for TriMet and the real reason they are two “seperate” lines. Is because that was the only way to get a federal grant for funding for the tilikum crossing. I was told originally it was just supposed to be a yellow line extension but they wouldn’t have been eligible for the grant
This answer ought to be pinned near the top. The top priority for Trimet planning is maximizing income from taxes. Why does the red line take the long way around to the airport? Why does WES cost $100 per passenger boarding? Why do buses meander through business parks? It's all to maximize income from taxes. Rider fares are a small part of their income and riders are prioritized accordingly.
@@duaneeitzen1025 May seem like the long way to the airport but the Red line actually has less stops then a bus would. Back before the Red line was a thing; the 12 bus would go all the way from Sherwood (My home town) through king city, Tigard, and Downtown Portland, just about Pioneer Court House Square it would change it's name to Sandy and continue to the airport. Many stops. Now they done away with that. Red line goes from Beaverton Transit to KPDX. Fewer stops and it travels much faster.
@@duaneeitzen1025 the red line takes the long way around to the airport because of how it was built and funded (a private-public partnership with Betchel, TriMet and the Port where Betchel got a bunch of land to develop Cascade Station in exchange for building the red line). Because of that, it was built in like 2 years with very minimal direct public funding. And since it directly connected to existing transitways (the previously unused 205 and the existing Banfield Light Rail), it took the fastest practical route* between Portland and the Airport. I have my own feelings about this project, but I think it's clear that a primary motivation was minimizing public capital costs - certainly not to motivate payroll tax income. *practical at the time. Given the importance of thru-running to Washington County (see new Better Red extension), a cross-city tunnel project would do a ton to decrease travel times between downtown and the airport - 15+ minutes of which are just between 11th/Lloyd and Pioneer Square. TriMet gets its tax revenue primarily from a payroll tax levied on business in the service area (trimet.org/pdfs/taxinfo/trimetdistrictboundary.pdf). Places have left this area, usually owing to frustrations without good service (all of which are in southern Clackamas County: Wilsonville, Mollala, Sandy, Boring, Canby, and Damascus) and have spun up their own transit agencies. It's up to you if you think that SMART, CAT or the other small agencies in Clack Co provide a better service than TriMet did historically. For my money, Estacada - one of the only small exurban towns in Clack Co still in the TriMet district - gets far better service than Sandy, Boring, or Mollala. Canby's system is the only one that really feels like it really had a significant improvement. Wilsonville is very hard to judge, but it's worth saying that TriMet runs it's very expensive to operate WES service there even though they do not pay any of the payroll tax. Per ORS 267.205, the board of directors directly determines the boundary of the payroll tax area (service area) based on whatever criteria they feel is fair (oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_267.205). So an employer in Wilsonville does not pay the TriMet payroll tax even though (in my opinion) they benefit from it, and could legally be charged it (as the district area is the MSA counties). It is not accurate to say that TriMet runs circuitous buses through business parks to capture payroll tax revenue at all.
Glad to see the MAX system get some more attention. Definitely a diamond in the rough amongst the larger, more prosperous systems of Ameicas big cities.
@@Thom-TRA I'm glad you do! It might be rough with the homeless hitching rides along it through the PDX area... But definitely one of the most versatille ways of taking transit over car or plane 2.50 will get you from the Rose Quarter in NW Portland, all the way to Hillsboro on the Blue line.
@@Sivah_Akash A bit late but I thought I'd comment on this since I live in Portland. The ticket security is fairly loose here, think of something like Munich, if you have been there. Outside of a bus, you are rarely going to have someone check if you paid. This is fine, it's a bit spendy but it's not too bad. Like $2.00 for or so, depending on the line. The problem which vapour mentioned is that a lot of homeless go onto the lines without paying, and of course you are right in that they have no other options. People have problems with it, and to be frank so do I, that unfortunately the homeless here are typically drug-users. So often there may be a person who might be having a bad trip, or mumbling to themselves, or yelling, etc. This obviously makes a lot of people uncomfortable with taking the transit. I personally still take it, because it is cheaper than a car by a lot, and it still works just fine. Also it's good to not assume that people complaining about it have no reason to, it's a nuanced issue. Not saying you are, just saying that because it's a heated topic here in Portland.
@@James-vw9yy, appreciate your reply. I lived in Beaverton until earlier this year and often took the Max and TriMet buses as well. :) I agree that drug use is a large problem. But ignoring the complexity of addiction for a second, there are several homeless people who don't use drugs and need to use public transit to get around as well. I understand this is a difficult issue to solve since we need public transit to be for everyone, but the mobility of poor people is just one thing I feel like we have to consider.
Portlander here - the FX is a joke BRT - no off board ticketing and separate lanes. It also gets held up by an at grade freight rail crossing in inner SE Portland
Hello Thom, I'm a local and I really loved this video, I like when transit youtubers at least acknowleged a big part of transit construction and expansion which is politics, and I was surprised at your includsion of it in this video! kudos! As for the two Lines the consensus here is that the marketing of a new line is 100% the reason why its this way, I also want to add that the funding for an extension of the Green line to where I live was voted down in 2020 in part because it was marketed as an extension when they could have just called it a new line. I also want to add that according to our 20240 regional growth plan A high capacity transit route is included to run along highway 26 in the Tualatin valley, I imagine this would be an extension of the Yellow Line which would run through downtown how it used to and follow the Blue and Red through the west hills. As for the Orange I know the plan is to eventually extend it to Oregon City but there is no official rumors about extending it anywhere North out of Downtown where it currently "ends". Right now the priority is to get the Southwest Corridor funded and then start planning for putting all the MAX lines into a couple Tunnels under Downtown.
I’m sorry to hear about the cancelled line! That sucks… glad to hear my video is resonating with locals. That always makes me nervous when I’m writing.
That Powell's City of Books is no joke! To put things into perspective, it's 68K square feet with over 3,500 different sections! And kudos to Portland for building that cool Tilikum Crossing, it's great to see a bridge that's just for transit, bikes, and pedestrians, especially one that's cable-stayed! NYC has an aerial tram too, the Roosevelt Island Tramway! It's the tramway shown at the end of the first Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movie. Before the aerial tramway, there used to be a streetcar line that ran on the Queensboro Bridge, and it stopped in the middle of the bridge at an elevator that took passengers down to the island. Today, the elevator storehouse is now a visitor kiosk next to the tramway station. After the NY state government leased the island from the city in 1969, they opted to build large housing developments and transform it into a transit-oriented community. A new subway station would be built to serve as the centerpiece. However, the Roosevelt Island station that was proposed was delayed. So the temporary solution was to build an aerial tramway! The tramway would open in 1975. The subway station ended up opening in 1989, however it was decided to keep the tramway open!
Our Tram connects the two campus's of OHSU. The waterfront campus to the hill Campus. If you don't know OHSU it's not only a hospital but also a collage. On the hill you have the main OHSU campus and next door is the VA campus.
Keep Portland Weird was based on Austin's Keep Austin Weird and was brought to Portland in 2003 by Music Millennium owner Terry Currier. Portland has a cool flag! It was designed in 1969 by longtime Portland resident, noted graphic designer R. Douglas Lynch who passed in 2009. The flag used to have a dark blue canton with the city seal, which was added despite Lynch's objections, but was finally removed in 2002. Green stands for the forests, yellow for agriculture and commerce, and blue for the city's rivers. The blue stripes radiate from a hypocycloid that represents Portland being at the confluence of the Willamette River with the Columbia River. Willamette is believed to derive from the French pronunciation of Wallamt, which means "still water", and was a village of the Clackamas band of Chinook. The Columbia River on the other hand got its name because of the Columbia Rediviva, a private American ship led by Captain Robert Gray from Boston that became the first non-indigenous vessel to enter the river in May 1792.
A Portland resident myself, always really enjoy your videos on the MAX system. One thing I'd love to see for the MAX is a line entirely on the east side, similar to where the 75 bus route is. I'd love a quicker way to get from central SE to NE/N! A girl can dream.
Love to see more US west-coast rail videos! Especially NW (Portland&Seattle) train content. And I love that this is footage of you physically riding the transit.
As someone else said, pre-pandemic, some Orange lines in morning and some in the afternoon would turn at Union Station and head south back to Milwaukie. Originally, the Orange and Green lines were going to be extended further south to Oregon City, and meet up. Clackamas County and others fought it. Just like the Green Line was supposed to go down 82nd Ave originally, similar to how the Yellow Line goes up Interstate. Easier for people to get to businesses, but that fell through too. "Purple" Line was going to connect at Jackson area with Green/Yellow/Orange, and go to Tigard, but fell through. Next up, would be extending Yellow into Vancouver, most likely the revitalized Vancouver waterfront.
Was finally in Portland and got to ride the MAX earlier this month. When you're in the central core of the city, the coverage is impeccable. The Streetcar does a great job extending that coverage. I was really impressed with how speedy the MAX was despite being a street-running system. Hopefully someday Portland will get a tunnel for the MAX to really get it running quickly and be the true Metro system it was to be
I live way out in the western suburbs between Hillsboro and Beaverton and even out here between buses and the MAX you can get to within a half mile of just about anywhere on Trimet. One of the few American cities where you don't need a car if you don't mind a bit of walking.
This anti lightrail activism painfully reminds to the BS which went down a few years back in Wiesbaden, Germany. Wiesbaden is the state capital of Hessen and next to Mainz, the state capital of Rheinland-Pfalz. Divided mostly by the river rhine. Mainz has a small, but functional tram network, which has been extended a few years back and will (hopefuly) see more extensions in the near future. Wiesbaden on the other hand fuly relies on buses for the the local public transport. There were plans to build a tramline from Mainz to Wiesbaden. But rich idiots from Wiesbaden (which don't even use public transport) blocked that initiative. The buses between the 2 cities are always packed and taking the train is a hassle. And the project would have been 90% financed by the federal and state government. I totally see what you are taking about Thom. Also, great video, as always!
@@Thom-TRA Delighted to get a reply from you Thom! You can learn about the drama if you google "Citybahn Wiesbaden" It would have been a link from Mainz (connecting to the existing tram network), crossing Wiesbaden and ending in Bad Schwalbach. where it would have given a medium sized college (Hochschule Rhein-Main) a decent public transport connection. It should have been the root for a bigger system. And to be fair, there are rail services between Mainz and Wiesbaden. Regionals and there is an S-Bahn-line (the S8) which runs from Frankfurt (am Main) to Wiesbaden through Mainz every 30 to 60 minutes. But it only connects a few stops and the main stations. No substitute for a decent tram or light rail.
@@Thom-TRAthey do have a shared rail system as they are both part of the Frankfurt S-Bahn system. But depending on the destination the S-Bahn is very indirect and requires a transfer, so it’s not very competitive in terms of revel time. Especially the southern part of Wiesbaden, which historically belonged to Mainz and is even still called Mainz. Those are only connected by a road bridge with a bus line. But at as far as I understand the bridge itself isn’t the core problem. The entire Wiesbaden bus system is at capacity, not just the line across the Rhine. The tram project was partly aimed at improving speed, but mainly at improving reliability and most importantly capacity. They recently tested multi-articulated buses to at least tackle the capacity problem after the tram proposal fell through.
The issues you mentioned have also delayed rebuilding the I 5 bridge into Vancouver Washington. Some want dedicated transit and others are fiercely opposed. The bridge is a disaster when an earthquake hits and no solution is forthcoming. Nice video on MAX.
@@Thom-TRA It’s excluded by their own choice. Vancouver residents call it “loot rail,” claiming that it will bring criminals into Washington State (with all of the racial baggage they can tether to their statements), and have blocked construction for many years because they’re scared of car-free Portland residents.
@@Thom-TRA A lot of people overstate Portland’s struggles with Oregon’s racial history; yes, the territory began with some serious original sin with the exclusion of free Black residents. Around the WW2 era the historic Black neighborhoods (Alberta, Mississippi) were basically cleared, with residents moved into the giant flood plain that is Delta Park. But modern Portland, and many (not all) of Portland’s south-of-Columbia inner suburbs are largely pretty awesome. Modern Vancouver WA & the entire SW Washington suburban region, however, seems to have inherited *and* embraced that racial history. If someone made me the Emperor of the Pacific NW for a day, I’d tell the racist residents of Vancouver to get stuffed and I’d force through the CRC - with MAX extension - without their consent. But no emperor-for-a-day is on the horizon. So, it’s a slog.
@@Thom-TRA And yes, when Oregon’s Big One hits, the current I-5 bridge *will* be a pile of rubble strewn across the Columbia’s riverbed. We all know that it won’t survive the next big quake, but SW Washington residents won’t get out of the way of a regional transit expansion, and Portland’s transit-first policies mean that they’re highly unlikely to be comfortable funding a giant highway bridge without a meaningful transit component. So, it’s a standoff. (Note: all of my info is pre-Panini, but I doubt that people’s views have shifted much - ridership on MAX, though, has really suffered in our new era, evidently much more than the always-in-the-news SF Bay, where I am now, which in Portland I guess has been caused by/has caused (chicken, egg) what I’ve been led to understand to be a major downturn in many urban Portland neighborhoods, particularly the Pearl District.)
@@Thom-TRA When the CRC was going through its first iteration, the mayor of Vancouver basically told the Vancouver City Council "Look, Portland has a $15 billion transit system that they are going to KEEP spending money on that they are letting us buy into for a few million dollars. Rejecting light rail at that price is simply financially irresponsible." Vancouver City Council basically ignored him. There were a lot of reasons that the original CRC died, but one of them certainly was that the city of Portland basically vetoed any bridge that expanded vehicle traffic capacity unless it also had transit, and Vancouver refused to accept a single dollar of transit spending on the project.
Yes, pretty much a marketing exercise. At least the current "A Better Red" project really is a better Red Line, and will allow for 1 seat riding from where I live in Hillsboro to the airport rather than transfer lines at some point between Beaverton and Gateway.
As far as I'm aware it was required to get federal funding. Funding was available for new lines, but not extension of old ones. At least that's the scuddle bud among the local transit folks I've heard from, I could be wrong. (Portland based here)
I’d be surprised if something like this mattered to the FTA. I’d think they would care more about new lines in terms of infrastructure rather than service.
They’re reconsidering extending it down to Salem, which i believe will greatly increase the usefulness of WES, and the viability of future WES lines (to Scappoose/Saint Helens?)
@@Thom-TRA I'm a little offended...... I look at a lot of maps 🥲 but Google transit maps don't show this line. It does on Apple which I just saw.... Now I realise I should look at other ones than Google's lol, but it's hard to when I've bookmarked everything on Google Maps. But also no one has mentioned to me IRL that this train exists, or seen it on any transit discussions blogs. Probably because the ridership is so low and it doesn't actually go into downtown. I live close to downtown so I would never had needed to use it as it's only in the suburbs. I'm so confused why they never directed this line to Portland itself. Why go from suburb to suburb? Is that really "commuter"?
@@atavanH it’s just easy to use already existing freight tracks. Low cost because planners never really believe in it in the first place, and voila, you have a weird system like WES.
Thanks for posting on the Max system. I live ~100 or so miles from Portland upriver on the WA side. I've given up driving to Portland, too much hassle. We have a rural bus line that connects to Amtrak in Kelso, and multiple Amtrak trains every day to Portand....Amtrak just added more Cascades runs. Easy to get around Portland on the Max. btw.... that FX2 articulated bus line is an easy way to get from Union Station to points east as far as Gresham. Its terminus is same place the Max blue line terminates in Gresham.
Yes, I agree it’s dumb. (I worked at TriMet for 6 years). However, before the pandemic, they *did* have 3-4 trains during AM rush hour and 3-4 during PM rush hour that did turn around downtown and go back to Milwaukie. Having a train leave Park Ave and announce “yellow line to Union Station” causes too much confusion for people (you know, the few that actually listen to the announcements) because all they hear is “yellow” and then tune out and miss the rest of it. It would say “Orange line to Portland city center.” So that part does make sense. However, since runs got cut at the beginning of Covid, there haven’t been any trains that are scheduled to flip a u turn and go back south. It only happens now in cases of delays or service disruptions.
People from one area now being able to travel easier to another area works both ways-- gentrification often occurs where there is transit being built or has existed already (think, the 14th St.-Canarsie, Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown, and the Myrtle-6th Avenue lines in Northwest Brooklyn). That raises a different set of issues.
Here in Helsinki this is actually increasing, the 2 & 3 used to be a loop but was opened up at the outskirts of the city and extended, the 7 becomes the 9 and at weekends they have extended the 1 to become the 8 at also at the ferry terminal to increase capacity and destinations without a large increase of trams or having to have turn arounds.
As a Portland native, the easy way to explain the MAX is that in downtown, is every line is Parallel to each other in some way, but all lines branch out in all directions. Also like most major cities, wouldn’t recommend going on it late at night.
I live in Portland along the orange line and have always wondered this. Thank you for the train tour and reminding me why I moved here. Sorry the Bike Valet was closed during your visit - it’s a sight to see!
They still had a few type 1 cars in service when I went on my Portland trip that I mentioned in your Coast Starlight video. I even rode on one returning from my quick out and back to Wilsonville on the WES.
@@Thom-TRA The region has marked rainy and dry seasons. Generally, the rains come to a halt around mid-June, and don't return until mid-September. This year, for example, we had around .50" total rainfall during that 90 day period. People irrigate during the summer, it is that dry. We do have numerous days with precipitation during the rainy season. Generally, the accumulation is around a 1/4" for the day. To date, the NWS is reporting total accumulation, at the airport, of just over 35". Which is close to average. Looking forward to the next leg of your journey up here. (Wondering if you took the Washington Ferry system to the San Juan Islands.)
I am an office owner in the PDX suburban hoods and riding the TriMet trams have become the norm for me. Trimet is one of the most notable transit agencies in the world. It’s reliable and quicker than other transit agencies around the world. I never rode the orange and yellow line but have seen some bus services do the same thing. In San Jose, CA we used to have 8 bus lines that did the same before 2019. Trimet buses sometimes practice this because there are 2 routes on certain printed schedules. As you already know I’m a frequent WES rider when in the suburban hoods. You should also consider the transit oriented development in the suburban hoods of Portland, it feels really great
Though it's pretty gentrified and whiter now, North Portland and the Yellow Line corridor is the historic core of the African-American community in Portland. The areas to the south and along the Orange line are much wealthier and historically white.
Living in Portland since before Max, I can tell you that the color coding of the lines has been beneficial to visitors by simply telling which line to take to get to your destination. Need to go from the airport to Milwaukie? Take the Red Line to downtown and switch to the Orange Line. Need to go from Hillsboro to Gresham? Just stay on the Blue Line. By following the maps. It is very easy to navigate in Portland.
Years ago there were also a couple green lines that turned into orange lines and visa versa in the morning and evening. I was actually really sad when they stopped that cause it removed a fast/convenient commute from NE to south waterfront (made worse by the fact that the yellow is VERY often late in the morning). I believe they've done this transition on the fly a few times as well when train flow is badly messed up. By keeping the lines separate they have that flexibility to move trains around without confusing passengers as badly.
I just knew that Portland has a light rail system but I never knew too much about it. I’m glad to know that the transit system entirely goes by tri met which I think is a cool name. I’ve heard of it when I knew about the single car diesel operated trains. I’d like to ride every type of transportation in that system, including those.
As a Portland resident, I am thankful we have both MAX light rail and the Portland Streetcar. On each of them I get to play my new favorite game, "Who's that smell?" But seriously, folks, Portland is lucky to have the MAX, whose red line goes all the way up to the airport and connects it with downtown.
also another reason for this is that when new light rail lines are being built the federal government gives more money to help fund those projects than light rail extensions, so that also factored into it slightly'
Love it when channels like yours show case our transit! I like the history you presented which included some things I didn’t know. Hope you get the chance to come back again! Cheers!
They've been repainting all the max trains over the last few months. By the time you visit again we might have the whole fleet (except the type 1's) all repainted in blue and orange
I think the problem with the Orange Line can be summarized best by analyzing the interplay between land use and speed. In choosing the alignment to be primarily along 99E (McLoughlin), it sacrifices future development opportunities for speed. So stations like Bybee and Tacoma have almost no good way to develop any kind of residential or commercial nodes within a comfortable walk to the station. But north of Bybee, when the train turns on to SE 17th in the Brooklyn neighborhood, it manages to slow down while still not really serving many people. The Holgate, Rhine, and Clinton stops are all either primarily or partially in an industrial area, and each of those stops remain among the least used in the system (with Rhine being the lowest). There also have been no substantial zoning changes and very little development near the line (there's one new apartment within a short walk from Rhine, and a few new townhomes as well). So while a deviation to a dense node, or to serve a future area set for dense development is a generally good ridership choice, the Orange line does this for no real reason. Then there are further issues with the Tilikum Crossing - mostly stemming from a NE - SW orientation that's perpendicular to the SE - NW direction the line takes in this area. Even if they hadn't designed 10 mph curves out of the OMSI station, this choice makes the line slower. Serving OMSI is useful, I often see families using the train to get there, but again it's not a significant node (yet). The line "turning back" towards OHSU and the South Waterfront is warranted - but this area should have been served more directly by a further upstream bridge (ideally on the south side of the Ross Island Bridge). And finally, the approach to downtown is not great either. While the viaduct to separate transit from the street sounds good on paper, the orientation of SW Lincoln as opposed to the original choice of SW Harrison makes travel times between the core of PSU Campus and the west end of the Tilikum Bridge almost equal between the MAX on the viaduct and the streetcar on the streets (8 minutes for the MAX, 10 minutes for the streetcar). The difference in loading gauge between the two systems is the supposed culprit, but along all of SW Harrison there would have been room for passing loops or gauntlet tracks to allow the wider MAX trains to pass without issue.
Just really peculiar. At least I can kinda see a reason now to label the Streetcar and Max separately unlike on the old video. I thought about it and realised that its basically like the divide in systems that US cities had back in their interurban hayday. With a local city streetcar system and a much further reaching interurban system. One being the local service, the other being the long distance express one. The Streetcar is the local one while the MAX is the long distance interurban. Though I find it funny how the modern day development has come full circle to such traditional solutions.
I just began watching this channel (first your video from Mexico, and then this one), and I found your videos quite informative! Now, I know why the Yellow Line and the Orange Line in Portland is labeled as two "separate" lines, but runs as one: branding! Thanks for the videos! I'll subscribe!
Like you said back in the 80s there was just 1 MAX line which ran from downtown out to Gresham and when it was extended out to Hillsboro and the red line was up and running that's when Trimet named the Gresham/Hillsboro run the blue line serving 2 different areas, so the reason they claim for the extension down to Milwaukie makes no sense, it needs to be renamed either the yellow or the orange line.
@@Thom-TRA Albina had streetcar service on Mississippi Avenue, Williams Avenue, and Union Avenue (today's MLK). By the 1950's those were all trolley coaches or motor buses. Trolley coaches also made fast runs on new, auto-oriented Interstate Avenue (US99W), including segments with a 40 mph speed limit. The Interstate Avenue trolley coach ran from downtown to Kenton, similar to the Yellow Line.
The WES regional rail line in suburban Portland is actually a former interurban electric railway. However, so is much of the Blue Line, with the exception of the major tunnel into Portland. So a better way is to look at WES is as a diesel-powered LRT branch from the Blue Line.
Thanks for explaining Portland's light rail system (systems?). When I last visited Portland, I was amazed by the five quarters that the street numbering system has (no light rail yet). I thought that was complicated enough! Great job Thom and Lindsey!
@@jordanledoux197 There finally is also an S. For years SW included an area in which numbers began with 0. Computers hated it. Lewis & Clark College, for example, was 0615 SW Palatine Hill Rd. It is now 615 S. Palatine Hill Rd. The N and S areas are the result of the numbering being based on the Willamette River. Where it bends, the dividing line does not.
Glad to see more Portland transit videos!! I’ve walked past that hostel and been curious about it, it’s in my favourite part of town, definitely a good place to stay.
The MAX (and street car) are one of the reasons I moved to Portland, along with Powells' City of Books, easy access to lots of great outdoors activities, and proximity to my grandparents who were steeply in decline (And honestly the biggest reason I moved to the area.) I live in one of those "wealthy suburbs" about a quarter mile from two different max stations. I use the MAX whenever I want to head downtown, as I loathe driving in Portland. I also typically take the train to the airport when I am traveling. (or Union station if I'm taking the train.) On the topic of NIMBYism, my grandfather was one of a cohort of real estate folk, who stopped the MAX from going past Hillsboro. His reasoning was that the communities past Hillsboro benefitted from their relative isolation, and tying them into the MAX would result in them becoming Yet Another Typical Transit Suburb. So instead those communities he was "protecting" have largely stagnated while the connected ones are growing and maturing. (I find myself going downtown less and less often as Beaverton and Hillsboro are starting to create their own culture while embracing what made Portland proper interesting. Beaverton has a Powells' annex; both Beaverton and Hillsboro have booming food-cart pods. More and more events are taking place out here rather than downtown.) So while I understand my grandfather's sentiment, I am diametrically opposed to it. Now if the Portland Metro would just unfuck their bike situation. . .
Ahh dude, some of your video content is like a HUGE nostalgia trip. A quick summary of my life: I grew up in Southern California, visited the Bay Area in 1974 and rode the cable cars, then in 1978 went back and rode the BART from Hayward to Powell St. in the city (both times with my parents). I was 8 years old and amazed that we were in a train that went under the bay (MIND BLOWN). Years later in 1996 I got a job back in the Bay Area. I lived in Berkeley for a year and rode the BART to S.F. then rode the Caltrain to the Belmont stop, then I moved to San Mateo and rode the Caltrain to Santa Clara. (in the interim I moved to Chicago for a brief year and half as a contractor and rode Metra and the El on the weekends). I ended up in Portland in 2004, and my company gave me a annual TriMet pass, so I rode the MAX almost every day up until the pandemic. When my kids were little I'd take them into town every weekend and we'd ride the streetcar. When the (edit) aerial tramway and the WES first opened I took the kids and we rode the thing back and forth for free. I could go on and on about my train adventures, but you're already experiencing that stuff! NICE!!! Keep up the travels!
Oh man.. had you crossed the rail/bike bridge there's a fantastic little railroad museum. Also really good pizza across the street from that. Also where'd you get the chicken sando from? My favorite is the ruben goose hollow inn.
Well technically there’s another. The red and Blue line pretty much occupy the same track line too. The red line (which would go out east to the PDX airport) is now extended western to connect to the Hillsboro Airport. Very close to being the same line
So one fun thing you can do transit wise in PDX is going all the way to Mt Hood via transit. Take the blue line to Gresham then take the Tri Met bus to Sandy and hop on the Mt Hood express bus to Timberline Lodge. You'll also notice the Mt Hood bus has a huge bike trailer on the back during summer and they pick up a bunch of mountain bikers in Rhododendron, that's because there is a 15 mile long downhill bike trail running through the forest from Timberline Lodge to Rhododendron.
Someone actually visited my home! Well the big city next to my home. I don't often see someone on the YT from probably another state make a video on the city. Anyway MAX light rail to my understanding is designed to get passengers around the Metro area in a much more efficient way. Busses have to wait for traffic, make frequent stops along their route and have to follow speed limits. MAX has fewer stops and on top of this they also get priority with rail road crossings. I haven't used Tri-Met in over a decade. I drive if I want to go somewhere; however these days I typically avoid Downtown for two main reasons; 1 is finding a parking space. If you don't arrive in the morning before the big 730am commute good luck finding a parking spot. 2 is downtown roads have a lot of pot holes. I don't want to accidentally hit one and it destroys my tires/wheels. I live southwest of downtown and Tigard is almost as bad for the pot holes. I personally wouldn't mind living closer to KHIO aka Hillsboro airport (big time aviation nut) and Hillsboro is about a 15-20 minute drive on 26 on good days and almost 2 hours on the worst days.
During construction of the orange line, an abandoned interurban car was discovered in a building that needed to be demolished to make way for the route.
I’m curious what my city is going to do in the future with the new line/ extension dilemma. They are currently working on building a new line 5. Since it’s part of a masterplan, there’s even already a line 6, so they seem to plan on using this number and the project is always referred to as line 5. But from everything I’ve read it’s planned to be operated as an extension of line 4. Currently the lines 3 and 4 terminate at central station and line 5 would also terminate there coming from the opposite side. The way the turnaround loop is set up I don’t think it would even be possible for the line to turn around. So I’m curious if they’ll do the same thing and have the trams change number at the central station or scrap the „line 5“ name at the end and just call it line 4.
i know something similar. in taipei, when the tamsui line opened, it was in two separate lines: Tamsui-Xindian (Green), and Beitou-Nanshijiao (Yellow). After 2004 (i don’t know the exact date), both lines were changed to be colored red north of Guting station, so if you were traveling from Taipei Main to Xindian, before Guting you would be on the red line but after Guting you would be on the green line. After 2014 the extension of the green line to songshan opened, ending that monstrosity of the Tamsui line, which was renamed to Tamsui-Xinyi line as an extension of that line to taipei-101 and xiangshan which had opened in the same year served xinyi anhe station.
Also numerous Oslo tram routes change their number and carry on through. 2 of my cousins independently found their way to Portland a good while ago, so MAX has been on my radar ever since - thanks for your sensitive handling of the topic \m/
There is a reason why Happy Valley has such limited transit connection and it absolutely does relate to racism. A pattern of "I don't want the crime train here" often stems from retirees or those who don't want a certain group of people being able to freely move in and out of town without a personal vehicle. Its so unfortunate because the orange and green line could've been built as far as oregon city and connect up together there but we can't have that over a few people that never stepped on a train in their life.
Some MAX Yellow Line trains turn into blue line trains at Rose Quarter and head to Gresham. Not always will a Yellow Line train turn into an Orange Line. Also, not all Orange Line trains turn into Yellow Line trains, some turn into Blue Line trains going toward Hillsboro but end at Elmonica / SE 170th Ave in technically Beaverton. It has taken me by surprise a few times, thinking I'd follow the Yellow line into downtown only to hear an announcement that after Rose Quarter will now be a Blue Line to Gresham. For some, if they're heading that way anyway, it saves them a walk to transfer to a Blue Line train.
@@Thom-TRA SOMETIMES!! Mostly this is in the evenings and nights, as MAX's barns are at Elmonica / SE 170th Ave to the west and Ruby Junction / E 197th to the east. I'm guessing it's a way to get extra service back to the barns, but still being useful on their journey having one more train in service.
I've actually seen these engines in person (I think it's lovely how the older models run alongside newer ones instead of being immediately ditched) and somehow missed out on that one streetcar with a pride flag.
The "we want to turn trains around" excuse is extra dumb because the eastern blue line does exactly that constantly. Especially later at night you will frequently see blue lines that end before the actual end of the line.
@@Thom-TRA Most of the trips that run short of Gresham on the Blue Line are carbarn runs pulling out or pulling in at Ruby Jct. The Yellow/Orange lines don't have their own barn.
Yeah i always figured its because the yellow line ran through the ghetto and theym orange line was nice, and they didnt want people accidentally going to the real hood side of ptown
Depends if the line is the actual line or the trains themselves or a bit of both.In many metros you get joint running on part of the system usually the centre of it .I suppose the beginning/end are what makes a line so if they don't share a beginning/end then you could regard them as separate lines although even then you have the problem of branches off the main line.
@@Thom-TRA Yup, they don't have low floors and they have to be coupled to the Type 2 (which are Siemens SD200s I think) which is low floor in order to be wheelchair accessible.
I lived in Milwaukie at the time of the Orange Line construction, a common talking point was "it's gonna decrease property values". In reality, the opposite happened because Milwaukie became more desirable. Also, Milwaukie generally supported the Orange Line, it was unincorporated Clackamas county that was opposed.
Trains tend to have that financial effect haha
It doesn't help that even to this day, people spout straight up lies. Less than a month ago I read a comment from someone claiming that the Orange Line cost TriMet "$7.9 billion" and the people living in the place it was going didn't even get to vote! In reality, none of that is true. The people who actually live near the Orange Line did in fact get several votes, and the Orange Line cost was $1.49 billion (far below the claimed $7.9 billion), of which TriMet only paid $490 million. (The rest was covered by state DOT and the Federal Government.)
In fact, the Orange Line completed ahead of schedule AND under budget.
@@TheCriminalViolin Aren't you the guy on the other TriMet video that straight up lied about the orange line costing $7.9 billion then disappeared when I called you out with receipts?
EDIT:
Yes, you are. It was the Cascadia HSR video. You straight lied about the cost, and when I called you out on it you just pretended you never saw it. My guess is you're straight lying now too.
@@jordanledoux197 except the price of houses jumped about 18% the year it was being constructed or just after, so they're accurate here
Thanks for promoting our city’s MAX system! It gets a lot of hate locally, but those of us who use transit regularly know how important it is. Hope you had a great time!
We love Portland!
born and raised in portland and i'm a certified max lover till the day i die
I honestly feel like the whole "all it does is transport them damn criminals to new areas to rob" sentiment is why cities like baltimore have terrible transit. I'm hoping that changes soon because reliable public transit is crucial for those who can't afford a car or don't have a place to park one. There's a lot more to it but that's one of the more prominent things about it.
I have cautious hope that things are getting better
so funny too considering most crime you hear about in Portland is done by people with cars
Now that it’s actually been built, they should really just rename the whole thing the Yellow Line (or Orange Line). The lack of clarity honestly might turn away more riders than it attracts.
I won’t argue, I don’t even have time for noodles
Yeah it's very confusing having 2 lines like that
i live here, everything i’ve heard surrounding it was “new lines” are eligible for federal funds, “extensions” aren’t. if that’s the case why they don’t rename it now i’m not sure.
Maybe instead of the Yellow Line and the Orange Line, they could just blend them into the Gold Line? 😃
The biggest problems are really that:
1. The line doesn't go to Oregon City (due to classism like Thom said)
2. The line doesn't go through/under Sellwood, instead going to the east around the neighborhood through a golf course (I'm 99% this was to save costs as Sellwood has no wide streets, and the line would have to go underground if it were going through the neighorhood)
3. The line doesn't go to Vancouver (this would help the "Yellow Line" section more than the "Orange Line", but the Interstate bridge can take half an hour to cross at rush hour, meaning any rail connection to Vancouver would boost the entire MAX system's ridership)
I work for TriMet and the real reason they are two “seperate” lines. Is because that was the only way to get a federal grant for funding for the tilikum crossing. I was told originally it was just supposed to be a yellow line extension but they wouldn’t have been eligible for the grant
That’s so weird to me
Gotta suckle at the taxpayer teat somehow, I guess.
This answer ought to be pinned near the top. The top priority for Trimet planning is maximizing income from taxes. Why does the red line take the long way around to the airport? Why does WES cost $100 per passenger boarding? Why do buses meander through business parks? It's all to maximize income from taxes. Rider fares are a small part of their income and riders are prioritized accordingly.
@@duaneeitzen1025 May seem like the long way to the airport but the Red line actually has less stops then a bus would. Back before the Red line was a thing; the 12 bus would go all the way from Sherwood (My home town) through king city, Tigard, and Downtown Portland, just about Pioneer Court House Square it would change it's name to Sandy and continue to the airport. Many stops. Now they done away with that. Red line goes from Beaverton Transit to KPDX. Fewer stops and it travels much faster.
@@duaneeitzen1025 the red line takes the long way around to the airport because of how it was built and funded (a private-public partnership with Betchel, TriMet and the Port where Betchel got a bunch of land to develop Cascade Station in exchange for building the red line). Because of that, it was built in like 2 years with very minimal direct public funding. And since it directly connected to existing transitways (the previously unused 205 and the existing Banfield Light Rail), it took the fastest practical route* between Portland and the Airport. I have my own feelings about this project, but I think it's clear that a primary motivation was minimizing public capital costs - certainly not to motivate payroll tax income.
*practical at the time. Given the importance of thru-running to Washington County (see new Better Red extension), a cross-city tunnel project would do a ton to decrease travel times between downtown and the airport - 15+ minutes of which are just between 11th/Lloyd and Pioneer Square.
TriMet gets its tax revenue primarily from a payroll tax levied on business in the service area (trimet.org/pdfs/taxinfo/trimetdistrictboundary.pdf). Places have left this area, usually owing to frustrations without good service (all of which are in southern Clackamas County: Wilsonville, Mollala, Sandy, Boring, Canby, and Damascus) and have spun up their own transit agencies. It's up to you if you think that SMART, CAT or the other small agencies in Clack Co provide a better service than TriMet did historically. For my money, Estacada - one of the only small exurban towns in Clack Co still in the TriMet district - gets far better service than Sandy, Boring, or Mollala. Canby's system is the only one that really feels like it really had a significant improvement. Wilsonville is very hard to judge, but it's worth saying that TriMet runs it's very expensive to operate WES service there even though they do not pay any of the payroll tax.
Per ORS 267.205, the board of directors directly determines the boundary of the payroll tax area (service area) based on whatever criteria they feel is fair (oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_267.205). So an employer in Wilsonville does not pay the TriMet payroll tax even though (in my opinion) they benefit from it, and could legally be charged it (as the district area is the MSA counties). It is not accurate to say that TriMet runs circuitous buses through business parks to capture payroll tax revenue at all.
Glad to see the MAX system get some more attention. Definitely a diamond in the rough amongst the larger, more prosperous systems of Ameicas big cities.
I agree, it’s a lesser known system online for sure. I enjoy coming to Portland and riding the transit.
@@Thom-TRA I'm glad you do! It might be rough with the homeless hitching rides along it through the PDX area... But definitely one of the most versatille ways of taking transit over car or plane 2.50 will get you from the Rose Quarter in NW Portland, all the way to Hillsboro on the Blue line.
@@vapour_xs9235, but the homeless don't have any choice than take public transit right?
@@Sivah_Akash A bit late but I thought I'd comment on this since I live in Portland. The ticket security is fairly loose here, think of something like Munich, if you have been there. Outside of a bus, you are rarely going to have someone check if you paid.
This is fine, it's a bit spendy but it's not too bad. Like $2.00 for or so, depending on the line.
The problem which vapour mentioned is that a lot of homeless go onto the lines without paying, and of course you are right in that they have no other options. People have problems with it, and to be frank so do I, that unfortunately the homeless here are typically drug-users. So often there may be a person who might be having a bad trip, or mumbling to themselves, or yelling, etc. This obviously makes a lot of people uncomfortable with taking the transit.
I personally still take it, because it is cheaper than a car by a lot, and it still works just fine. Also it's good to not assume that people complaining about it have no reason to, it's a nuanced issue. Not saying you are, just saying that because it's a heated topic here in Portland.
@@James-vw9yy, appreciate your reply. I lived in Beaverton until earlier this year and often took the Max and TriMet buses as well. :)
I agree that drug use is a large problem. But ignoring the complexity of addiction for a second, there are several homeless people who don't use drugs and need to use public transit to get around as well.
I understand this is a difficult issue to solve since we need public transit to be for everyone, but the mobility of poor people is just one thing I feel like we have to consider.
Portlander here - the FX is a joke BRT - no off board ticketing and separate lanes. It also gets held up by an at grade freight rail crossing in inner SE Portland
Yeah, I exactly why I’m always hesitant when people talk about BRT. The chances of messing it up are so high.
No it dosn't lol
@@thatguy8162 wdym no. It literally crosses the freight tracks.
The can route around the tracks and while it's not true BRT it's still a great service and it's sped things up considerably from the old line 2 bus.
Hello Thom, I'm a local and I really loved this video, I like when transit youtubers at least acknowleged a big part of transit construction and expansion which is politics, and I was surprised at your includsion of it in this video! kudos! As for the two Lines the consensus here is that the marketing of a new line is 100% the reason why its this way, I also want to add that the funding for an extension of the Green line to where I live was voted down in 2020 in part because it was marketed as an extension when they could have just called it a new line. I also want to add that according to our 20240 regional growth plan A high capacity transit route is included to run along highway 26 in the Tualatin valley, I imagine this would be an extension of the Yellow Line which would run through downtown how it used to and follow the Blue and Red through the west hills. As for the Orange I know the plan is to eventually extend it to Oregon City but there is no official rumors about extending it anywhere North out of Downtown where it currently "ends". Right now the priority is to get the Southwest Corridor funded and then start planning for putting all the MAX lines into a couple Tunnels under Downtown.
I’m sorry to hear about the cancelled line! That sucks… glad to hear my video is resonating with locals. That always makes me nervous when I’m writing.
That Powell's City of Books is no joke! To put things into perspective, it's 68K square feet with over 3,500 different sections! And kudos to Portland for building that cool Tilikum Crossing, it's great to see a bridge that's just for transit, bikes, and pedestrians, especially one that's cable-stayed! NYC has an aerial tram too, the Roosevelt Island Tramway! It's the tramway shown at the end of the first Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movie. Before the aerial tramway, there used to be a streetcar line that ran on the Queensboro Bridge, and it stopped in the middle of the bridge at an elevator that took passengers down to the island. Today, the elevator storehouse is now a visitor kiosk next to the tramway station.
After the NY state government leased the island from the city in 1969, they opted to build large housing developments and transform it into a transit-oriented community. A new subway station would be built to serve as the centerpiece. However, the Roosevelt Island station that was proposed was delayed. So the temporary solution was to build an aerial tramway! The tramway would open in 1975. The subway station ended up opening in 1989, however it was decided to keep the tramway open!
The Roosevelt island tramway has a top spot on my NYC bucket list! Crazy to think I’ve been there so many times and never ridden it
It’s the guy that comments everywhere
Our Tram connects the two campus's of OHSU. The waterfront campus to the hill Campus. If you don't know OHSU it's not only a hospital but also a collage. On the hill you have the main OHSU campus and next door is the VA campus.
Keep Portland Weird was based on Austin's Keep Austin Weird and was brought to Portland in 2003 by Music Millennium owner Terry Currier. Portland has a cool flag! It was designed in 1969 by longtime Portland resident, noted graphic designer R. Douglas Lynch who passed in 2009. The flag used to have a dark blue canton with the city seal, which was added despite Lynch's objections, but was finally removed in 2002. Green stands for the forests, yellow for agriculture and commerce, and blue for the city's rivers. The blue stripes radiate from a hypocycloid that represents Portland being at the confluence of the Willamette River with the Columbia River.
Willamette is believed to derive from the French pronunciation of Wallamt, which means "still water", and was a village of the Clackamas band of Chinook. The Columbia River on the other hand got its name because of the Columbia Rediviva, a private American ship led by Captain Robert Gray from Boston that became the first non-indigenous vessel to enter the river in May 1792.
I’m just glad nobody has judged my pronunciation of Willamette. America, the land of counterintuitively pronounced place names…
Supreme leader knows a lot about portuland
@@Thom-TRA "Willamette", "Couch", "Oregon", "Sauvie Island", "Yachats"... it's a pronunciation minefield. We appreciate the effort.
A Portland resident myself, always really enjoy your videos on the MAX system. One thing I'd love to see for the MAX is a line entirely on the east side, similar to where the 75 bus route is. I'd love a quicker way to get from central SE to NE/N! A girl can dream.
One of these days someplace will build a transit line that doesn’t go through downtown…
Love to see more US west-coast rail videos! Especially NW (Portland&Seattle) train content. And I love that this is footage of you physically riding the transit.
Of course I use footage actually riding the transit!
As someone else said, pre-pandemic, some Orange lines in morning and some in the afternoon would turn at Union Station and head south back to Milwaukie. Originally, the Orange and Green lines were going to be extended further south to Oregon City, and meet up. Clackamas County and others fought it. Just like the Green Line was supposed to go down 82nd Ave originally, similar to how the Yellow Line goes up Interstate. Easier for people to get to businesses, but that fell through too. "Purple" Line was going to connect at Jackson area with Green/Yellow/Orange, and go to Tigard, but fell through. Next up, would be extending Yellow into Vancouver, most likely the revitalized Vancouver waterfront.
It’s a sad thing when people get in the way of good transit
Was finally in Portland and got to ride the MAX earlier this month. When you're in the central core of the city, the coverage is impeccable. The Streetcar does a great job extending that coverage. I was really impressed with how speedy the MAX was despite being a street-running system. Hopefully someday Portland will get a tunnel for the MAX to really get it running quickly and be the true Metro system it was to be
I believe a tunnel is in the works for the future!
@@Thom-TRA, I beleive it was just a bunch of feasibility studies to understand cost, etc. but no plans have been developed yet unfortunately. :(
I live way out in the western suburbs between Hillsboro and Beaverton and even out here between buses and the MAX you can get to within a half mile of just about anywhere on Trimet. One of the few American cities where you don't need a car if you don't mind a bit of walking.
@@bmobmo6438 I am really impressed with how car-free you can live even out in Beaverton
This anti lightrail activism painfully reminds to the BS which went down a few years back in Wiesbaden, Germany. Wiesbaden is the state capital of Hessen and next to Mainz, the state capital of Rheinland-Pfalz. Divided mostly by the river rhine. Mainz has a small, but functional tram network, which has been extended a few years back and will (hopefuly) see more extensions in the near future. Wiesbaden on the other hand fuly relies on buses for the the local public transport. There were plans to build a tramline from Mainz to Wiesbaden. But rich idiots from Wiesbaden (which don't even use public transport) blocked that initiative. The buses between the 2 cities are always packed and taking the train is a hassle. And the project would have been 90% financed by the federal and state government. I totally see what you are taking about Thom.
Also, great video, as always!
I had never heard about this story before! When two cities are so close to each other, it only makes sense to have a combined rail network.
@@Thom-TRA Delighted to get a reply from you Thom! You can learn about the drama if you google "Citybahn Wiesbaden" It would have been a link from Mainz (connecting to the existing tram network), crossing Wiesbaden and ending in Bad Schwalbach. where it would have given a medium sized college (Hochschule Rhein-Main) a decent public transport connection. It should have been the root for a bigger system.
And to be fair, there are rail services between Mainz and Wiesbaden. Regionals and there is an S-Bahn-line (the S8) which runs from Frankfurt (am Main) to Wiesbaden through Mainz every 30 to 60 minutes. But it only connects a few stops and the main stations. No substitute for a decent tram or light rail.
@@Thom-TRAthey do have a shared rail system as they are both part of the Frankfurt S-Bahn system. But depending on the destination the S-Bahn is very indirect and requires a transfer, so it’s not very competitive in terms of revel time. Especially the southern part of Wiesbaden, which historically belonged to Mainz and is even still called Mainz. Those are only connected by a road bridge with a bus line.
But at as far as I understand the bridge itself isn’t the core problem. The entire Wiesbaden bus system is at capacity, not just the line across the Rhine. The tram project was partly aimed at improving speed, but mainly at improving reliability and most importantly capacity. They recently tested multi-articulated buses to at least tackle the capacity problem after the tram proposal fell through.
The issues you mentioned have also delayed rebuilding the I 5 bridge into Vancouver Washington. Some want dedicated transit and others are fiercely opposed. The bridge is a disaster when an earthquake hits and no solution is forthcoming. Nice video on MAX.
It’s wild to me that such a large urban center so close to Portland would not be included in the area’s transit system. That’s politics for ya…
@@Thom-TRA It’s excluded by their own choice. Vancouver residents call it “loot rail,” claiming that it will bring criminals into Washington State (with all of the racial baggage they can tether to their statements), and have blocked construction for many years because they’re scared of car-free Portland residents.
@@Thom-TRA A lot of people overstate Portland’s struggles with Oregon’s racial history; yes, the territory began with some serious original sin with the exclusion of free Black residents. Around the WW2 era the historic Black neighborhoods (Alberta, Mississippi) were basically cleared, with residents moved into the giant flood plain that is Delta Park. But modern Portland, and many (not all) of Portland’s south-of-Columbia inner suburbs are largely pretty awesome. Modern Vancouver WA & the entire SW Washington suburban region, however, seems to have inherited *and* embraced that racial history.
If someone made me the Emperor of the Pacific NW for a day, I’d tell the racist residents of Vancouver to get stuffed and I’d force through the CRC - with MAX extension - without their consent. But no emperor-for-a-day is on the horizon. So, it’s a slog.
@@Thom-TRA And yes, when Oregon’s Big One hits, the current I-5 bridge *will* be a pile of rubble strewn across the Columbia’s riverbed. We all know that it won’t survive the next big quake, but SW Washington residents won’t get out of the way of a regional transit expansion, and Portland’s transit-first policies mean that they’re highly unlikely to be comfortable funding a giant highway bridge without a meaningful transit component. So, it’s a standoff.
(Note: all of my info is pre-Panini, but I doubt that people’s views have shifted much - ridership on MAX, though, has really suffered in our new era, evidently much more than the always-in-the-news SF Bay, where I am now, which in Portland I guess has been caused by/has caused (chicken, egg) what I’ve been led to understand to be a major downturn in many urban Portland neighborhoods, particularly the Pearl District.)
@@Thom-TRA When the CRC was going through its first iteration, the mayor of Vancouver basically told the Vancouver City Council "Look, Portland has a $15 billion transit system that they are going to KEEP spending money on that they are letting us buy into for a few million dollars. Rejecting light rail at that price is simply financially irresponsible."
Vancouver City Council basically ignored him.
There were a lot of reasons that the original CRC died, but one of them certainly was that the city of Portland basically vetoed any bridge that expanded vehicle traffic capacity unless it also had transit, and Vancouver refused to accept a single dollar of transit spending on the project.
Yes, pretty much a marketing exercise. At least the current "A Better Red" project really is a better Red Line, and will allow for 1 seat riding from where I live in Hillsboro to the airport rather than transfer lines at some point between Beaverton and Gateway.
I’m sure the extra frequencies will be appreciated out west!
@@Thom-TRA it's currently going from the Hillsboro Airport to the Portland Intl from what I've seen
As far as I'm aware it was required to get federal funding. Funding was available for new lines, but not extension of old ones.
At least that's the scuddle bud among the local transit folks I've heard from, I could be wrong. (Portland based here)
I’d be surprised if something like this mattered to the FTA. I’d think they would care more about new lines in terms of infrastructure rather than service.
You blew my mind that we have a “commuter rail” despite living in Portland for a few years.
Apparently only 400 daily riders, what a waste
You never look at any maps and wonder what any of the things on that map are?
They’re reconsidering extending it down to Salem, which i believe will greatly increase the usefulness of WES, and the viability of future WES lines (to Scappoose/Saint Helens?)
They probably need to run it more than just a few times a day. It's such a waste when commuter rail lines have such low frequencies.
@@Thom-TRA I'm a little offended...... I look at a lot of maps 🥲 but Google transit maps don't show this line. It does on Apple which I just saw.... Now I realise I should look at other ones than Google's lol, but it's hard to when I've bookmarked everything on Google Maps.
But also no one has mentioned to me IRL that this train exists, or seen it on any transit discussions blogs. Probably because the ridership is so low and it doesn't actually go into downtown. I live close to downtown so I would never had needed to use it as it's only in the suburbs.
I'm so confused why they never directed this line to Portland itself. Why go from suburb to suburb? Is that really "commuter"?
@@atavanH it’s just easy to use already existing freight tracks. Low cost because planners never really believe in it in the first place, and voila, you have a weird system like WES.
Facinating history! And, yes, Northwest Portland. What a nice place to visit or live.
Thanks for posting on the Max system. I live ~100 or so miles from Portland upriver on the WA side. I've given up driving to Portland, too much hassle. We have a rural bus line that connects to Amtrak in Kelso, and multiple Amtrak trains every day to Portand....Amtrak just added more Cascades runs. Easy to get around Portland on the Max. btw.... that FX2 articulated bus line is an easy way to get from Union Station to points east as far as Gresham. Its terminus is same place the Max blue line terminates in Gresham.
My review of the Cascades is coming soon!
Yes, I agree it’s dumb. (I worked at TriMet for 6 years). However, before the pandemic, they *did* have 3-4 trains during AM rush hour and 3-4 during PM rush hour that did turn around downtown and go back to Milwaukie. Having a train leave Park Ave and announce “yellow line to Union Station” causes too much confusion for people (you know, the few that actually listen to the announcements) because all they hear is “yellow” and then tune out and miss the rest of it. It would say “Orange line to Portland city center.” So that part does make sense. However, since runs got cut at the beginning of Covid, there haven’t been any trains that are scheduled to flip a u turn and go back south. It only happens now in cases of delays or service disruptions.
People from one area now being able to travel easier to another area works both ways-- gentrification often occurs where there is transit being built or has existed already (think, the 14th St.-Canarsie, Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown, and the Myrtle-6th Avenue lines in Northwest Brooklyn). That raises a different set of issues.
Very true. Overall I think improved mobility is a net good, we just need to look out for each other.
Here in Helsinki this is actually increasing, the 2 & 3 used to be a loop but was opened up at the outskirts of the city and extended, the 7 becomes the 9 and at weekends they have extended the 1 to become the 8 at also at the ferry terminal to increase capacity and destinations without a large increase of trams or having to have turn arounds.
Finland is one of the few European countries I have yet to visit but I have only heard positive things about it!
Thanks for sharing, great and relaxing tour of Portland, love the city's rail system
We love coming to Portland! Such an underrated food scene
As a Portland native, the easy way to explain the MAX is that in downtown, is every line is Parallel to each other in some way, but all lines branch out in all directions. Also like most major cities, wouldn’t recommend going on it late at night.
I live in Portland along the orange line and have always wondered this. Thank you for the train tour and reminding me why I moved here. Sorry the Bike Valet was closed during your visit - it’s a sight to see!
I’ll be back for sure someday!
Ive grown up with the Max especially because i was always fascinated by it
I’ve never heard of the orange line, but I’ve been on the yellow line
They still had a few type 1 cars in service when I went on my Portland trip that I mentioned in your Coast Starlight video. I even rode on one returning from my quick out and back to Wilsonville on the WES.
Glad you had time to do WES! I love that weird little line
I'm just happy you two were able to visit the PacNW when it wasn't raining.
Portland and Seattle were the sunniest places we saw on our trip, ironically
@@Thom-TRA The region has marked rainy and dry seasons. Generally, the rains come to a halt around mid-June, and don't return until mid-September. This year, for example, we had around .50" total rainfall during that 90 day period. People irrigate during the summer, it is that dry.
We do have numerous days with precipitation during the rainy season. Generally, the accumulation is around a 1/4" for the day. To date, the NWS is reporting total accumulation, at the airport, of just over 35". Which is close to average. Looking forward to the next leg of your journey up here. (Wondering if you took the Washington Ferry system to the San Juan Islands.)
It's the racism. The south side didn't want to be associated with the traditionally black, latino and poor-white neighborhoods along Interstate Ave.
I am an office owner in the PDX suburban hoods and riding the TriMet trams have become the norm for me. Trimet is one of the most notable transit agencies in the world. It’s reliable and quicker than other transit agencies around the world. I never rode the orange and yellow line but have seen some bus services do the same thing. In San Jose, CA we used to have 8 bus lines that did the same before 2019. Trimet buses sometimes practice this because there are 2 routes on certain printed schedules. As you already know I’m a frequent WES rider when in the suburban hoods. You should also consider the transit oriented development in the suburban hoods of Portland, it feels really great
I don't think I've ever ridden transit that had sponsored announcements
In Japan, some subway lines will have companies pay them to list their businesses during station announcements
The streetcar announces these sponsors when they pass the buildings, i think. I’ve noticed it with two separate apartment complexes on the NS line
4:44, i wish! they're still running the type 1's!
Though it's pretty gentrified and whiter now, North Portland and the Yellow Line corridor is the historic core of the African-American community in Portland. The areas to the south and along the Orange line are much wealthier and historically white.
Living in Portland since before Max, I can tell you that the color coding of the lines has been beneficial to visitors by simply telling which line to take to get to your destination.
Need to go from the airport to Milwaukie? Take the Red Line to downtown and switch to the Orange Line. Need to go from Hillsboro to Gresham? Just stay on the Blue Line. By following the maps. It is very easy to navigate in Portland.
Which is probably why almost every city in the world has color coded their lines
If your still in the PDX area or will be again - let me know!!! I am a TriMet bus operator and always carry TriMet swag with me!
Dang! I wish I’d known. I know I’ll be back someday!
Years ago there were also a couple green lines that turned into orange lines and visa versa in the morning and evening. I was actually really sad when they stopped that cause it removed a fast/convenient commute from NE to south waterfront (made worse by the fact that the yellow is VERY often late in the morning). I believe they've done this transition on the fly a few times as well when train flow is badly messed up. By keeping the lines separate they have that flexibility to move trains around without confusing passengers as badly.
The red line now goes into Hillsboro; it's nice not having to change trains to get to the airport.
I just knew that Portland has a light rail system but I never knew too much about it. I’m glad to know that the transit system entirely goes by tri met which I think is a cool name. I’ve heard of it when I knew about the single car diesel operated trains. I’d like to ride every type of transportation in that system, including those.
As a Portland resident, I am thankful we have both MAX light rail and the Portland Streetcar. On each of them I get to play my new favorite game, "Who's that smell?" But seriously, folks, Portland is lucky to have the MAX, whose red line goes all the way up to the airport and connects it with downtown.
The smell game sounds fun
I've been there long time ago,was surprised about the Skoda Cars and the phantastic Bookshop, too!
I think the streetcars are Inekon, another Czech company!
also another reason for this is that when new light rail lines are being built the federal government gives more money to help fund those projects than light rail extensions, so that also factored into it slightly'
That’s such a weird clause to me. Like only a new project could be beneficial.
@@Thom-TRA yah, things are weird lol
Love it when channels like yours show case our transit! I like the history you presented which included some things I didn’t know. Hope you get the chance to come back again! Cheers!
I will definitely come back! I love visiting Portland
They've been repainting all the max trains over the last few months. By the time you visit again we might have the whole fleet (except the type 1's) all repainted in blue and orange
I like the new livery, excited to see it!
I think the problem with the Orange Line can be summarized best by analyzing the interplay between land use and speed. In choosing the alignment to be primarily along 99E (McLoughlin), it sacrifices future development opportunities for speed. So stations like Bybee and Tacoma have almost no good way to develop any kind of residential or commercial nodes within a comfortable walk to the station. But north of Bybee, when the train turns on to SE 17th in the Brooklyn neighborhood, it manages to slow down while still not really serving many people. The Holgate, Rhine, and Clinton stops are all either primarily or partially in an industrial area, and each of those stops remain among the least used in the system (with Rhine being the lowest). There also have been no substantial zoning changes and very little development near the line (there's one new apartment within a short walk from Rhine, and a few new townhomes as well).
So while a deviation to a dense node, or to serve a future area set for dense development is a generally good ridership choice, the Orange line does this for no real reason. Then there are further issues with the Tilikum Crossing - mostly stemming from a NE - SW orientation that's perpendicular to the SE - NW direction the line takes in this area. Even if they hadn't designed 10 mph curves out of the OMSI station, this choice makes the line slower. Serving OMSI is useful, I often see families using the train to get there, but again it's not a significant node (yet). The line "turning back" towards OHSU and the South Waterfront is warranted - but this area should have been served more directly by a further upstream bridge (ideally on the south side of the Ross Island Bridge).
And finally, the approach to downtown is not great either. While the viaduct to separate transit from the street sounds good on paper, the orientation of SW Lincoln as opposed to the original choice of SW Harrison makes travel times between the core of PSU Campus and the west end of the Tilikum Bridge almost equal between the MAX on the viaduct and the streetcar on the streets (8 minutes for the MAX, 10 minutes for the streetcar). The difference in loading gauge between the two systems is the supposed culprit, but along all of SW Harrison there would have been room for passing loops or gauntlet tracks to allow the wider MAX trains to pass without issue.
Just really peculiar. At least I can kinda see a reason now to label the Streetcar and Max separately unlike on the old video. I thought about it and realised that its basically like the divide in systems that US cities had back in their interurban hayday. With a local city streetcar system and a much further reaching interurban system. One being the local service, the other being the long distance express one. The Streetcar is the local one while the MAX is the long distance interurban. Though I find it funny how the modern day development has come full circle to such traditional solutions.
It’s weird (yet common) to couple high floor and low floor light rail vehicles together!
It’s for accessibility! That way at least one car on each train is low floor
It's kind of crazy how different the ridership is between the beginning and end of 2023 (at least to me).
It’s simple. I see a TAA notification, and I watch TAA.
We enjoy the simple things in life
I just began watching this channel (first your video from Mexico, and then this one), and I found your videos quite informative! Now, I know why the Yellow Line and the Orange Line in Portland is labeled as two "separate" lines, but runs as one: branding!
Thanks for the videos! I'll subscribe!
Thanks for subscribing!
You're welcome, @@Thom-TRA!
Like you said back in the 80s there was just 1 MAX line which ran from downtown out to Gresham and when it was extended out to Hillsboro and the red line was up and running that's when Trimet named the Gresham/Hillsboro run the blue line serving 2 different areas, so the reason they claim for the extension down to Milwaukie makes no sense, it needs to be renamed either the yellow or the orange line.
I have not watched the video yet but is one and it should be called the yellow line
cool video! i was always so confused why the orange line exists
I remember when the Orange line was first opened.
Did you know the Albina district had a street car run down it in 40's and 50's
I did not know that
@@Thom-TRA Albina had streetcar service on Mississippi Avenue, Williams Avenue, and Union Avenue (today's MLK). By the 1950's those were all trolley coaches or motor buses. Trolley coaches also made fast runs on new, auto-oriented Interstate Avenue (US99W), including segments with a 40 mph speed limit. The Interstate Avenue trolley coach ran from downtown to Kenton, similar to the Yellow Line.
The WES regional rail line in suburban Portland is actually a former interurban electric railway. However, so is much of the Blue Line, with the exception of the major tunnel into Portland. So a better way is to look at WES is as a diesel-powered LRT branch from the Blue Line.
I also know that the blue line used to be a BN Mainline between Forest Grove and Beaverton.
Thanks for explaining Portland's light rail system (systems?). When I last visited Portland, I was amazed by the five quarters that the street numbering system has (no light rail yet). I thought that was complicated enough! Great job Thom and Lindsey!
You mean the NE, NW, SE, SW, N street naming system the city uses?
@@jordanledoux197And S.
@@jordanledoux197 There finally is also an S. For years SW included an area in which numbers began with 0. Computers hated it. Lewis & Clark College, for example, was 0615 SW Palatine Hill Rd. It is now 615 S. Palatine Hill Rd. The N and S areas are the result of the numbering being based on the Willamette River. Where it bends, the dividing line does not.
Glad to see more Portland transit videos!! I’ve walked past that hostel and been curious about it, it’s in my favourite part of town, definitely a good place to stay.
It’s very nice! Loved all the beautiful houses in that area
The MAX (and street car) are one of the reasons I moved to Portland, along with Powells' City of Books, easy access to lots of great outdoors activities, and proximity to my grandparents who were steeply in decline (And honestly the biggest reason I moved to the area.) I live in one of those "wealthy suburbs" about a quarter mile from two different max stations. I use the MAX whenever I want to head downtown, as I loathe driving in Portland. I also typically take the train to the airport when I am traveling. (or Union station if I'm taking the train.)
On the topic of NIMBYism, my grandfather was one of a cohort of real estate folk, who stopped the MAX from going past Hillsboro. His reasoning was that the communities past Hillsboro benefitted from their relative isolation, and tying them into the MAX would result in them becoming Yet Another Typical Transit Suburb. So instead those communities he was "protecting" have largely stagnated while the connected ones are growing and maturing. (I find myself going downtown less and less often as Beaverton and Hillsboro are starting to create their own culture while embracing what made Portland proper interesting. Beaverton has a Powells' annex; both Beaverton and Hillsboro have booming food-cart pods. More and more events are taking place out here rather than downtown.) So while I understand my grandfather's sentiment, I am diametrically opposed to it.
Now if the Portland Metro would just unfuck their bike situation. . .
Ahh dude, some of your video content is like a HUGE nostalgia trip. A quick summary of my life: I grew up in Southern California, visited the Bay Area in 1974 and rode the cable cars, then in 1978 went back and rode the BART from Hayward to Powell St. in the city (both times with my parents). I was 8 years old and amazed that we were in a train that went under the bay (MIND BLOWN).
Years later in 1996 I got a job back in the Bay Area. I lived in Berkeley for a year and rode the BART to S.F. then rode the Caltrain to the Belmont stop, then I moved to San Mateo and rode the Caltrain to Santa Clara.
(in the interim I moved to Chicago for a brief year and half as a contractor and rode Metra and the El on the weekends).
I ended up in Portland in 2004, and my company gave me a annual TriMet pass, so I rode the MAX almost every day up until the pandemic. When my kids were little I'd take them into town every weekend and we'd ride the streetcar. When the (edit) aerial tramway and the WES first opened I took the kids and we rode the thing back and forth for free.
I could go on and on about my train adventures, but you're already experiencing that stuff! NICE!!! Keep up the travels!
I need to go back to the west coast soon because you all are the nicest commenters I’ve had under videos in a while!
Oh man.. had you crossed the rail/bike bridge there's a fantastic little railroad museum. Also really good pizza across the street from that.
Also where'd you get the chicken sando from? My favorite is the ruben goose hollow inn.
I crossed it last time I was in town! It was closed then sadly too.
The place was called BAES Chicken.
I agree it was a marketing thing. it always really bothered me that it isnt considered the yellow.
You gotta do a video on the Washington Park station next time you're in town.
Oh look, what’s this:
ruclips.net/video/_CBvLvmqs7k/видео.html
The white, blue and yellow livery reminds me of Metronom Eisenbahngessellschaft in Germany
Yeah, I can see it
Well technically there’s another. The red and Blue line pretty much occupy the same track line too. The red line (which would go out east to the PDX airport) is now extended western to connect to the Hillsboro Airport. Very close to being the same line
But that’s very different from what’s being described in this video. They start and end at different places.
So one fun thing you can do transit wise in PDX is going all the way to Mt Hood via transit. Take the blue line to Gresham then take the Tri Met bus to Sandy and hop on the Mt Hood express bus to Timberline Lodge. You'll also notice the Mt Hood bus has a huge bike trailer on the back during summer and they pick up a bunch of mountain bikers in Rhododendron, that's because there is a 15 mile long downhill bike trail running through the forest from Timberline Lodge to Rhododendron.
That sounds like a great trip!
Someone actually visited my home! Well the big city next to my home. I don't often see someone on the YT from probably another state make a video on the city. Anyway MAX light rail to my understanding is designed to get passengers around the Metro area in a much more efficient way. Busses have to wait for traffic, make frequent stops along their route and have to follow speed limits. MAX has fewer stops and on top of this they also get priority with rail road crossings. I haven't used Tri-Met in over a decade. I drive if I want to go somewhere; however these days I typically avoid Downtown for two main reasons; 1 is finding a parking space. If you don't arrive in the morning before the big 730am commute good luck finding a parking spot. 2 is downtown roads have a lot of pot holes. I don't want to accidentally hit one and it destroys my tires/wheels. I live southwest of downtown and Tigard is almost as bad for the pot holes. I personally wouldn't mind living closer to KHIO aka Hillsboro airport (big time aviation nut) and Hillsboro is about a 15-20 minute drive on 26 on good days and almost 2 hours on the worst days.
The Portland streetcars were manufactured in Czechia 🇨🇿
During construction of the orange line, an abandoned interurban car was discovered in a building that needed to be demolished to make way for the route.
Assume they remain two separate lines until the city can get money for the southwest extension.
You mean to Oregon city? Because the orange line is the Southwest extension
I’m curious what my city is going to do in the future with the new line/ extension dilemma. They are currently working on building a new line 5. Since it’s part of a masterplan, there’s even already a line 6, so they seem to plan on using this number and the project is always referred to as line 5.
But from everything I’ve read it’s planned to be operated as an extension of line 4. Currently the lines 3 and 4 terminate at central station and line 5 would also terminate there coming from the opposite side. The way the turnaround loop is set up I don’t think it would even be possible for the line to turn around. So I’m curious if they’ll do the same thing and have the trams change number at the central station or scrap the „line 5“ name at the end and just call it line 4.
i know something similar. in taipei, when the tamsui line opened, it was in two separate lines: Tamsui-Xindian (Green), and Beitou-Nanshijiao (Yellow). After 2004 (i don’t know the exact date), both lines were changed to be colored red north of Guting station, so if you were traveling from Taipei Main to Xindian, before Guting you would be on the red line but after Guting you would be on the green line. After 2014 the extension of the green line to songshan opened, ending that monstrosity of the Tamsui line, which was renamed to Tamsui-Xinyi line as an extension of that line to taipei-101 and xiangshan which had opened in the same year served xinyi anhe station.
1:40 looks like the train on Madrid’s C-9, which is meter gauge and serves a ski town called Cotos
I have stayed at Northwest hostel many times. Very nice
A little surprising to see that much anti-transit sentiment in the Portland area, tbh. I mean...it's Portland.
Unfortunately it's everywhere
In my country (the Netehrlends), there is a simular situation in The Hague, where tram routes 15 & 16 are operated as a single line
Ik wist niet dat de 15 en 16 gecombineerd reden. Ik reisde vroeger elke dag met de HTM.
@@Thom-TRA Dit is sinds 2022 dat ze gecombineerd rijden
Also numerous Oslo tram routes change their number and carry on through. 2 of my cousins independently found their way to Portland a good while ago, so MAX has been on my radar ever since - thanks for your sensitive handling of the topic \m/
You’re welcome! Practicing for a bigger, more sensitive video lol
“Probably the best bridge in the country.”
😊
It’s a great bridge
There is a reason why Happy Valley has such limited transit connection and it absolutely does relate to racism. A pattern of "I don't want the crime train here" often stems from retirees or those who don't want a certain group of people being able to freely move in and out of town without a personal vehicle. Its so unfortunate because the orange and green line could've been built as far as oregon city and connect up together there but we can't have that over a few people that never stepped on a train in their life.
Some MAX Yellow Line trains turn into blue line trains at Rose Quarter and head to Gresham. Not always will a Yellow Line train turn into an Orange Line. Also, not all Orange Line trains turn into Yellow Line trains, some turn into Blue Line trains going toward Hillsboro but end at Elmonica / SE 170th Ave in technically Beaverton. It has taken me by surprise a few times, thinking I'd follow the Yellow line into downtown only to hear an announcement that after Rose Quarter will now be a Blue Line to Gresham. For some, if they're heading that way anyway, it saves them a walk to transfer to a Blue Line train.
Weird, I bet that trips people up
@@Thom-TRA SOMETIMES!! Mostly this is in the evenings and nights, as MAX's barns are at Elmonica / SE 170th Ave to the west and Ruby Junction / E 197th to the east. I'm guessing it's a way to get extra service back to the barns, but still being useful on their journey having one more train in service.
You're right, marketing is everything.
"Local news can only report on what people say and not what's in their souls."
It’s like taking the temperature with a measuring stick
Remembering what that other guy said about Muni Metro's looks... I'm going to see, we got nothing on Portland. 😁
I've actually seen these engines in person (I think it's lovely how the older models run alongside newer ones instead of being immediately ditched) and somehow missed out on that one streetcar with a pride flag.
The "we want to turn trains around" excuse is extra dumb because the eastern blue line does exactly that constantly. Especially later at night you will frequently see blue lines that end before the actual end of the line.
Right? It’s called short turns lol
@@Thom-TRA Most of the trips that run short of Gresham on the Blue Line are carbarn runs pulling out or pulling in at Ruby Jct. The Yellow/Orange lines don't have their own barn.
and we're STILL waiting on the Type 1s to be retired.
I wonder how it is funded and whether or not funding arrangements also require this strange separation.
Yeah i always figured its because the yellow line ran through the ghetto and theym orange line was nice, and they didnt want people accidentally going to the real hood side of ptown
That's interesting. "RMTransit" has today publicated a video about Portland Transit too.
Don’t see it?
Depends if the line is the actual line or the trains themselves or a bit of both.In many metros you get joint running on part of the system usually the centre of it .I suppose the beginning/end are what makes a line so if they don't share a beginning/end then you could regard them as separate lines although even then you have the problem of branches off the main line.
I ride the orange line all the time!
Awesome!
Great video sir.
I enjoyed the video👍👍
Where are you going next? Should I expect some rural/regional transit systems with a lot of Gilligs?
I mentioned the Cascades at the end of the video so I think you have a pretty good guess
I watched a fentanyl addict puke all over their seat and then get taken away in an ambulance at the Lombard stop on the yellow line back in March.
Interesting
"Yorrange line."
“Orellow”
I don’t know, sometimes the orange line changes into the green line. 🤷🏾♂️
Really?
What type of train is type 1? I have never seen that one
The oldest ones. Built by Bombardier. The only vehicles that don’t have a low floor.
@@Thom-TRA Yup, they don't have low floors and they have to be coupled to the Type 2 (which are Siemens SD200s I think) which is low floor in order to be wheelchair accessible.