Low frequencies = long antenna, high frequencies = short antenna. The limiting factor for the CB is that dinky antenna. A quarter wave antenna for CB is around 2.5m long! For PMR a quarter wave antenna is arond 16cm! The antenna will work better on the PMR as its more toward its proper length. An external antenna for CB mounted in the centre of your roof your results would be wildly different. 🙂
Interesting. I was on CB before it became legal in 1981, hold a ham licence (G1FZY) though I've not been active for years, and worked professionally on PMR systems (not the current free to use stuff but systems used by the emergency services, utilities and so on). One thing that stood out to me in some of your other videos I've watched is the placement of your aerials (antenna are wavy things on the heads of insects 😉). In an ideal world you would place them in the middle of the roof (actually the centre of the ground plane but roof is close enough probably). Any deviation away from that gives the signal some directionality, as you are only putting a fixed amount of power in to the aerial any gain in one direction has to come from a loss in another. Shoving the aerial on the corner of a car (ground plane) can make them very directional indeed. Back in the day we used to play various games around DFing (direction finding); often one car would go off and hide, transmit occasionally, and we would have to find them. Prize to the winner and all that, this was done both on CB and Ham Radio. If you got really techie you could use a highly directional aerial but for the most part you'd just stick the magmount as close to a corner of the car as possible and drive round in a circle to get a direction bearing. Repeat at another couple of locations and triangulate. I wonder about how tuned your aerials are too. This is impotent both for efficiency and longevity of the transmitters. Probably teaching my grandma to suck eggs, apologise if so, but hopefully interesting and useful to someone.
@@Raysnature It’s surprising how many people are now starting to use CB again for offroading 😅 It’s really useful when in convoy. It’s a bit tricky with the Disco now as the aerial has to be on the rear corner due to the roof rack. We did another CB test video soon to go live on our channel! Having a go with different aerials and equipment this time 😁
Not really, because you can not use an amateur radio for general chit-chat like 4x4 driving. Where do you get this 50 watts power from, It's 25 watts, 100 watts, and 1000 watts respectively. I would like to see this test with a pair of PMR 446 digital Kenwood Protalks.. The CB antennas on both cars were way too small for a real test,. May I suggest using springer-type antennas to achieve a better range
FM range is just beyond line of sight, any dips, hills, buildings even snow and ice will attenuate the signal. On the right terrain that midland on HF could do over 15 miles with its 4 watts and correct antenna, the PMR radio only operates at 500mW (1/2 a watt) UHF shorter range. I have often worked over 25 miles with my VHF HT. Height is Might.
We were definitely hampered by the trees and differences in terrain ⛰ 🌳 It was a good test though 😅 The midland handheld cb originally had a smaller antenna, the range was terrible! This is perfect now for us laning out and about 😄 To be fair was pretty impressed with the PMRs too!
Where roof bars or roof rack are fitted i modify panel mount antenna brackets to bolt to or clamp around the bars, and in a way that i can still just remove a lock nut to keep the coax in the car when not in use. And a weather cap for when i leave the coax and just remove antenna.
Most of what I am about to say has already been touched on, the dial a match antenna on the freelander aren't renown for being that good, but it should have trounced your CB hh, I would suggest changing it for a large springer antenna as a CB antenna wants to be "electrically" 9 ft in length, so a bigger antenna will work better. There are plenty of better CB antennas such as Wilson, Sirio , k40 or firestik, they will be very efficient but don't like hitting trees. The pmr radios work on 446mhz so their efficient antenna size is only a few inches. So the handy antenna is closer to its ideal size. You said you were looking into ham radio, also consider a simple business licence no technical tests, 4w hand held radios as opposed to 0.5w pmr446 and you could use external magnetic antennas to improve performance even more.
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips I was guest presenter at the adventure overland show a few years back. One of my talks was remote area communications, so I am quite clued up, I have been on and off CB radio since 1980, hold a ham licence and I am covered on a couple of simple business licences so if you need anything drop me a PM.
That’s amazing! Thank you so much for that, really appreciate it. I find the technicalities of CB a little difficult to understand like am/fm what’s best etc. We regularly use the CB when out laning and it’s proven to be a great tool whilst out and about.
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips you may find PMR446 -or simple business PMR even better because you have the same power output of CB but with more efficient antennas and the ability to use privacy codes (ctcss) to cut out unwanted noise from distant stations. you do know you are supposed to "tune" swr most antennas especially CB ones?
I recently bought an old used RMR446 by Logicom, and i was shocked by the range, i got solid reception at 5km (it was suposed to be the limiting range) i actually got 8km if i got a good ground clearance, i'm sure i could get 10km from a hill too just don't use it from inside a vehicle, well you could get a 2km range from inside tho. as a new beginner radio amateur i was looking forward to get my hands on a VHF 2way handheld radio and I looked down on PMR446 as just weak toys, but i'm actually pleased by how useful and convenient they are, plus you don't need a license for them. more tx power won't fix obstacles and obstructions much
The wavelength of CB is some 11 metres and if used inside the car it's like using the radio in a Faraday cage. You really need external antennas and if used on both cars a range of several miles will be achieved. I would recommend a magmount with 1.5 metres whip on both cars and you will be amazed at the range. The PMR radios are on UHF with a very short wavelength that escapes through the window apertures. These are great for car to car over half a mile or so. Just seen you have cb installed on the cars but I can't understand why they have such poor performance on them.
I think it could be a mixture of things 😅 Do the antennas need to have an earth? The aerial connected to the roof rails on the Freelander are fixed to the body but wondered if this would cause a problem?
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips Most car aerials are a quarter wave, the other quarter wave is made from the car body work. If a fixed bracket is used the coax screen needs to have electrical contact with the car body at the bracket. Far easier is a mag mount, this has capacitive coupling with the car body through the base of the mount. Get an SWR meter, quite cheap for CB usage, and check for low reflected power from the antenna. Low reflected power, a VSWR of less than 2, means that most of your power is probably being radiated from your antenna. Their are true half wave antennas designed for fiberglass car bodies and boats but most antennas sold are a quarter wave needing the car body to complete the aerial. Hope that helps. needing the car body to give
I would go for a set of boafeng uv5r handhelds and an antenna adapter to a mag mount, maybe a speaker mic too. Plenty good enough for green laning, and still able to quickly switch back to stock antenna and take with you on foot. I much prefer pmr446, too much noise on cb for me. Crt space u. Crt micron,(same radios available under other names). 2 good cheap options for vehicle mounted.
I use a 42 Multi as my main CB radio in my car and I'm getting great range (20km +) on AM, as much as friends with "normal" CB radios. The antenna on my car is a 1.55m whip. By the way, 0.2 miles is 320m, 1 mile = 1.609 km so 0.1 mile = 160m.
Was a very interesting test, gutted I messed up the footage on my camera 😂 Will get a permanent system fitted to the P38 and do some more test with that and your Disco. Question the midlands in the FL2 is that still dying? Hopefully the new one in the Disco is stronger
Just do what most do and use a 'ham radio' boafeng is cheapest option, and despite being cheap and Chinese is great value for money. And the "Crt space U" is a good vehicle mounted option.
Comparing CB with PMR: CB is 4 Watts on FM (up to 12W PEP if you use single sideband) and PMR is 0.5W CB is on 27-28MHz, which is HF (bordering VHF), and PMR is on UHF, 446MHz Lower frequencies need larger antennas so CB needs a larger transmit antenna than PMR Assuming an antenna is the proportion of its wavelength e.g. a half-wave dipole in free space a both ends, then a lower frequency will travel further. In practice a long wavelength antenna is usually massively compromised because there is no space to make it full size. On the CB bands there is more natural noise (hiss and crackle) and also long distance stations interfering from Europe and sometimes the US (some of them run insane amounts of power, illegally) PMR radios must have non-detachable antennas whereas it is possible to choose a good CB antenna and attach it to a car roof etc PMR frequencies can go through windows better because of the higher frequency and shorter wavelengths, so a PMR will sort of work inside a car. I don’t think CB would, though I never tried it All in all it depends how they are being used. Height and line of site is definitely a big factor at both CB and PMR frequencies. CB will probably cover more distance in more situations. I used to easily reach Basingstoke from Southampton using a 23 foot 5/8 wave back in the day.
Handheld CBs are pretty useless in my experience. The range is just too bad. They really need an antenna that's too large to be practical, to work well on those frequencies. UHF is 10x better for handhelds
They are pretty good but only if you fit the longest antenna I’ve ever seen! 😅 Otherwise yes signal not great! Used to have UHF radios years ago but looking at another radio now 😉 keep an eye out for future videos!
Interesting video and test. I still need to run mine in anger and am itching to do a test but am yet to find anyone local. Mine is a car unit Thunderpole T-600 and Mini Orbiter but would like to figure out what distance it is capable of line of sight and out on the lanes or roads.
So you only got out less than a mile on line of site. 1.29km is rubbish. How many watts was you using on the pmr please and I’m sure the CB is 4 watts… get a K40 and put it on a mag mount in the middle of the roof as will give a fantastic ground plane for the CB. My PMR is a Quangsung k6 with a great a 2mtr/10mtr antenna which put up full telescopic to 27htz. Great video.
@@zazugee0.5 watts won't get you anywhere beyond your property. It's really unfortunate. We get 2 watts in the US as of only a few years ago now and it's much much better. Over a mile with line of sight, no problem at 0.5 miles in urban areas with houses. GMRS here let's you do 5+ watts
Squelch turned up to high and rf gain not turned up we have had qso to grand canaria to a guy using 4 watts hand held to a silver rod antenna to the midlands
PMR446 is a waste of time and money, the 500mw output restriction and mouldered fixed antennas make these radio useless, why they didn't give a couple watts I'll never know. The cb radio at 4 watts will give much better range but using either radio you really need an antenna mounted on the vehicle and SWR of 1.5 or less otherwise you will loose all you power, the antenna on your vehicle is absolute pants, I would recommend Sirio 27 or Sirio 4000
Which is why most on pmr446 use ham radios, cheap boafeng uv5r labeled at upto 5w usually kick out at least 3w on uhf. Not saying there the best.. far from it but uv5r with a vehicle mounted antenna is plenty good enough for green laning. Or a crt space u good for a cheap vehicle mounted radio. Depends what you like more hf interference and noise or driving about with friends and having a coms set up that isnt an almost constant static noise.
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Low frequencies = long antenna, high frequencies = short antenna. The limiting factor for the CB is that dinky antenna. A quarter wave antenna for CB is around 2.5m long! For PMR a quarter wave antenna is arond 16cm! The antenna will work better on the PMR as its more toward its proper length. An external antenna for CB mounted in the centre of your roof your results would be wildly different. 🙂
Ahhh very interesting! 😁 did not know this. Thank you! Learning quite a bit since I posted this video up 😂
yes, the CB was made for mobile applications in vehicles, it doesn't make sense for hand helds, well, it could be useful but it's a huge compromise
Cool. Video. Maybe you can make an Test with the " Team Duo Portable 2 / 70 PMR / Freenet Mobilgerät. ". I think this is very interessting for you.
Interesting. I was on CB before it became legal in 1981, hold a ham licence (G1FZY) though I've not been active for years, and worked professionally on PMR systems (not the current free to use stuff but systems used by the emergency services, utilities and so on).
One thing that stood out to me in some of your other videos I've watched is the placement of your aerials (antenna are wavy things on the heads of insects 😉). In an ideal world you would place them in the middle of the roof (actually the centre of the ground plane but roof is close enough probably). Any deviation away from that gives the signal some directionality, as you are only putting a fixed amount of power in to the aerial any gain in one direction has to come from a loss in another. Shoving the aerial on the corner of a car (ground plane) can make them very directional indeed.
Back in the day we used to play various games around DFing (direction finding); often one car would go off and hide, transmit occasionally, and we would have to find them. Prize to the winner and all that, this was done both on CB and Ham Radio. If you got really techie you could use a highly directional aerial but for the most part you'd just stick the magmount as close to a corner of the car as possible and drive round in a circle to get a direction bearing. Repeat at another couple of locations and triangulate.
I wonder about how tuned your aerials are too. This is impotent both for efficiency and longevity of the transmitters.
Probably teaching my grandma to suck eggs, apologise if so, but hopefully interesting and useful to someone.
@@Raysnature It’s surprising how many people are now starting to use CB again for offroading 😅 It’s really useful when in convoy. It’s a bit tricky with the Disco now as the aerial has to be on the rear corner due to the roof rack. We did another CB test video soon to go live on our channel! Having a go with different aerials and equipment this time 😁
Get an amateur radio license guys then 50W on 2m/70cm will solve all your radio communication needs 👍
Not really, because you can not use an amateur radio for general chit-chat like 4x4 driving. Where do you get this 50 watts power from, It's 25 watts, 100 watts, and 1000 watts respectively. I would like to see this test with a pair of PMR 446 digital Kenwood Protalks.. The CB antennas on both cars were way too small for a real test,. May I suggest using springer-type antennas to achieve a better range
@m1pete We just recently uploaded another video of a CB test! 😁
FM range is just beyond line of sight, any dips, hills, buildings even snow and ice will attenuate the signal. On the right terrain that midland on HF could do over 15 miles with its 4 watts and correct antenna, the PMR radio only operates at 500mW (1/2 a watt) UHF shorter range.
I have often worked over 25 miles with my VHF HT.
Height is Might.
We were definitely hampered by the trees and differences in terrain ⛰ 🌳 It was a good test though 😅 The midland handheld cb originally had a smaller antenna, the range was terrible! This is perfect now for us laning out and about 😄 To be fair was pretty impressed with the PMRs too!
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips They are both good for laning, get you out of trouble with no mobile signal
Your problem with car CB is you were blocking the signal with your tailgate being open 😢
@@alexberry5118 Ahhh didn’t think of that! 😂
Theres an overhead cable right over you . Probably telecoms but it wont help thats for sure. That tree , your vehicle as has been said .
Where roof bars or roof rack are fitted i modify panel mount antenna brackets to bolt to or clamp around the bars, and in a way that i can still just remove a lock nut to keep the coax in the car when not in use. And a weather cap for when i leave the coax and just remove antenna.
Most of what I am about to say has already been touched on, the dial a match antenna on the freelander aren't renown for being that good, but it should have trounced your CB hh, I would suggest changing it for a large springer antenna as a CB antenna wants to be "electrically" 9 ft in length, so a bigger antenna will work better. There are plenty of better CB antennas such as Wilson, Sirio , k40 or firestik, they will be very efficient but don't like hitting trees. The pmr radios work on 446mhz so their efficient antenna size is only a few inches. So the handy antenna is closer to its ideal size. You said you were looking into ham radio, also consider a simple business licence no technical tests, 4w hand held radios as opposed to 0.5w pmr446 and you could use external magnetic antennas to improve performance even more.
Was an interesting test! Hoping to do another very soon 🙂 With a new Sirio antenna 📡 watch this space!
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips I was guest presenter at the adventure overland show a few years back. One of my talks was remote area communications, so I am quite clued up, I have been on and off CB radio since 1980, hold a ham licence and I am covered on a couple of simple business licences so if you need anything drop me a PM.
That’s amazing! Thank you so much for that, really appreciate it. I find the technicalities of CB a little difficult to understand like am/fm what’s best etc. We regularly use the CB when out laning and it’s proven to be a great tool whilst out and about.
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips you may find PMR446 -or simple business PMR even better because you have the same power output of CB but with more efficient antennas and the ability to use privacy codes (ctcss) to cut out unwanted noise from distant stations. you do know you are supposed to "tune" swr most antennas especially CB ones?
I recently bought an old used RMR446 by Logicom, and i was shocked by the range, i got solid reception at 5km (it was suposed to be the limiting range)
i actually got 8km if i got a good ground clearance, i'm sure i could get 10km from a hill too
just don't use it from inside a vehicle, well you could get a 2km range from inside tho.
as a new beginner radio amateur i was looking forward to get my hands on a VHF 2way handheld radio and I looked down on PMR446 as just weak toys, but i'm actually pleased by how useful and convenient they are, plus you don't need a license for them.
more tx power won't fix obstacles and obstructions much
The wavelength of CB is some 11 metres and if used inside the car it's like using the radio in a Faraday cage. You really need external antennas and if used on both cars a range of several miles will be achieved. I would recommend a magmount with 1.5 metres whip on both cars and you will be amazed at the range. The PMR radios are on UHF with a very short wavelength that escapes through the window apertures. These are great for car to car over half a mile or so. Just seen you have cb installed on the cars but I can't understand why they have such poor performance on them.
I think it could be a mixture of things 😅 Do the antennas need to have an earth? The aerial connected to the roof rails on the Freelander are fixed to the body but wondered if this would cause a problem?
@@FrenchiesRoadTrips Most car aerials are a quarter wave, the other quarter wave is made from the car body work. If a fixed bracket is used the coax screen needs to have electrical contact with the car body at the bracket. Far easier is a mag mount, this has capacitive coupling with the car body through the base of the mount. Get an SWR meter, quite cheap for CB usage, and check for low reflected power from the antenna. Low reflected power, a VSWR of less than 2, means that most of your power is probably being radiated from your antenna. Their are true half wave antennas designed for fiberglass car bodies and boats but most antennas sold are a quarter wave needing the car body to complete the aerial. Hope that helps.
needing the car body to give
I would go for a set of boafeng uv5r handhelds and an antenna adapter to a mag mount, maybe a speaker mic too. Plenty good enough for green laning, and still able to quickly switch back to stock antenna and take with you on foot.
I much prefer pmr446, too much noise on cb for me.
Crt space u.
Crt micron,(same radios available under other names).
2 good cheap options for vehicle mounted.
I use a 42 Multi as my main CB radio in my car and I'm getting great range (20km +) on AM, as much as friends with "normal" CB radios. The antenna on my car is a 1.55m whip. By the way, 0.2 miles is 320m, 1 mile = 1.609 km so 0.1 mile = 160m.
Was a very interesting test, gutted I messed up the footage on my camera 😂 Will get a permanent system fitted to the P38 and do some more test with that and your Disco. Question the midlands in the FL2 is that still dying? Hopefully the new one in the Disco is stronger
🤣 Cannot wait until the next one! 🙂 Hopefully next time be in the Disco! Hmmm yes, not overly convinced the cb in Bens car is working right 😅
Just do what most do and use a 'ham radio' boafeng is cheapest option, and despite being cheap and Chinese is great value for money. And the "Crt space U" is a good vehicle mounted option.
Have been considering Ham Radio! 😁
Hi thar whot you need is a ssb radio in the 4x4s
NVIS?
Interesting test
Comparing CB with PMR:
CB is 4 Watts on FM (up to 12W PEP if you use single sideband) and PMR is 0.5W
CB is on 27-28MHz, which is HF (bordering VHF), and PMR is on UHF, 446MHz
Lower frequencies need larger antennas so CB needs a larger transmit antenna than PMR
Assuming an antenna is the proportion of its wavelength e.g. a half-wave dipole in free space a both ends, then a lower frequency will travel further. In practice a long wavelength antenna is usually massively compromised because there is no space to make it full size.
On the CB bands there is more natural noise (hiss and crackle) and also long distance stations interfering from Europe and sometimes the US (some of them run insane amounts of power, illegally)
PMR radios must have non-detachable antennas whereas it is possible to choose a good CB antenna and attach it to a car roof etc
PMR frequencies can go through windows better because of the higher frequency and shorter wavelengths, so a PMR will sort of work inside a car. I don’t think CB would, though I never tried it
All in all it depends how they are being used. Height and line of site is definitely a big factor at both CB and PMR frequencies. CB will probably cover more distance in more situations. I used to easily reach Basingstoke from Southampton using a 23 foot 5/8 wave back in the day.
@SimonBlandford Thanks for this! 😁 A lot of very useful information! I’m looking into amateur radio so hopefully understand it a bit more 😁🙌
Handheld CBs are pretty useless in my experience. The range is just too bad. They really need an antenna that's too large to be practical, to work well on those frequencies. UHF is 10x better for handhelds
They are pretty good but only if you fit the longest antenna I’ve ever seen! 😅 Otherwise yes signal not great! Used to have UHF radios years ago but looking at another radio now 😉 keep an eye out for future videos!
Interesting video and test.
I still need to run mine in anger and am itching to do a test but am yet to find anyone local.
Mine is a car unit Thunderpole T-600 and Mini Orbiter but would like to figure out what distance it is capable of line of sight and out on the lanes or roads.
Thank you 🙂🙏 It’s worth a try, was very interesting to see the results. Had lots of feedback about it and information on cb and PMR 🙂
What about built up areas what would the reception be like' as your in a field with no buildings.
Hmmm good question! We shall do another test very soon! 😁 We have recently upgraded the cb antenna so would be interesting to see how that works now 📡
So you only got out less than a mile on line of site. 1.29km is rubbish. How many watts was you using on the pmr please and I’m sure the CB is 4 watts… get a K40 and put it on a mag mount in the middle of the roof as will give a fantastic ground plane for the CB.
My PMR is a Quangsung k6 with a great a 2mtr/10mtr antenna which put up full telescopic to 27htz.
Great video.
most PMR446 arefixed at 0.5W, you can't legally change that
@@zazugee0.5 watts won't get you anywhere beyond your property. It's really unfortunate. We get 2 watts in the US as of only a few years ago now and it's much much better. Over a mile with line of sight, no problem at 0.5 miles in urban areas with houses. GMRS here let's you do 5+ watts
Squelch turned up to high and rf gain not turned up we have had qso to grand canaria to a guy using 4 watts hand held to a silver rod antenna to the midlands
Good video, but PMR is really only for shops and kids it seems.
something wrong with your first radio. i reach so much much far far further on the same cb ,yes even to other countries ..but different antenna
would have also helped if you could stand still hahah
I’ll try that next time! 😂
Far to many variables in your test. But still interesting...
Thank you! 😁 Oh there was 😅 still not sure which one I prefer though!
PMR446 is a waste of time and money, the 500mw output restriction and mouldered fixed antennas make these radio useless, why they didn't give a couple watts I'll never know. The cb radio at 4 watts will give much better range but using either radio you really need an antenna mounted on the vehicle and SWR of 1.5 or less otherwise you will loose all you power, the antenna on your vehicle is absolute pants, I would recommend Sirio 27 or Sirio 4000
Which is why most on pmr446 use ham radios, cheap boafeng uv5r labeled at upto 5w usually kick out at least 3w on uhf.
Not saying there the best.. far from it but uv5r with a vehicle mounted antenna is plenty good enough for green laning. Or a crt space u good for a cheap vehicle mounted radio.
Depends what you like more hf interference and noise or driving about with friends and having a coms set up that isnt an almost constant static noise.
There a simple mod you can do with the Midland Xtra Talk PMR446 to increase the power to 5 Watts, you find on RUclips. @@theblink2404
they are supposed to fill a niche of license-less VHF, where you use them in a farm or a large building, they are convenient and no headache with law
Why are you trying to convert to metres??? In the UK we use miles for distance, makes no sense to use metres for this....