Magnetic filters for heating - do they even work?
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2021
- #magnaclean #filter #boiler
Video looking at operation and types of different domestic central heating magnetic filters and dirt separators.
We look at a short history of boiler filters in the UK. We look at different filters available on the market, and how they operate. I also try to answer a question: do we actually need magnetic filters and dirt separators installed on our central heating systems? Can they really protect our boilers from breaking down?
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I’m always on the lookout for a new video from you, always well explained and informative, thanks 👍
Thank you for kind words! There will be more regular content from now on 👍
Brilliant, great news
We moved into our new home 2 1/2 tears ago and the boiler had a Magnaclean filter fitted above it.. There had not been a filter installed on any of our previous heating systems . We had very little detail about previous maintenance so I opened up the Magnaclean filter with ease and found that it had collected a fair quantity of debris, so it had worked well.
As you showed, I also dosed the system via the filter (with Adey MC1) and again it was easy.
No leakage occurred after refitting the cap, so I am quite satisfied with the performance and the ease of use (apart from having to use a step ladder to reach it).
We install the Spiro combi air separator/magnet dirt trap on the supply side when we use boilers with permanent magnet filters connected to cast iron radiators, steel pipes or steel radiators.
I like the RadMag it only collects magnetc dirt but thats the type of stuff that tends to block heat exchangers and bypass diverter valves. It cheap and easy to fit if you have a towel rail. It also has a bleed screw at the top.
I do like magnacleans as I find, like you, they catch more dirt. Removing their lids however….. a nightmare.
Keep up the good videos 👍
I fitted a magnaclean to my 10 year old system , and yes I left it a bit late and as mentioned it won’t save your boiler but , a big problem which isn’t raised is the radiators collect the metallic debris and clogs the flow giving less heat. Having cleaned the rads out one by one the benefit of a mag filter is easily seen. The amount of gunk these collect is amazing.
it is not the rads you should be concerned about; compared to pipes these components have massive cross sectional area. The primary flow to radiators can sit dormant for up to 9 or 10 months dependant on which part of the UK. this means all the "gunk" sets like bloody concrete. No magnetic or low velocity filter will remove this contamination.
@@jrice610 . Understand that but as I said I cleaned the rads out then fitted the magnaclean filter. As the cleaning has left a residue in the system the filter has been collecting it. This has got to be beneficial and better than doing nothing.
@@wivaquif You are quite correct; it is better than doing nothing. If all the rads were heating prior to the retrospective filter installation it would indicate that your system may have not been in a poor condition to start with especially if the system was properly dosed and cleaned on the initial fit. Try a chemical clean and then check the filter in 1-2 weeks.
Your 'metallic debris' is likely more than just that, but indicates corrosion of metals likely due to a lack of inhibitor through those years. This is not just 'one of those things that happens' - it's simply due to negligence.
Getting the system (internal surfaces) clean is critical - you can't do it by half. You must use a properly developed chemical cleaning product alongside a power flushing system. Once clean you must must must add, and maintain, a chemical inhibitor to keep it that way.
@@otw5974 . Why all the added expense, it’s working perfectly fine now , and has been since my last post. If this was a brand new system certainly should have introduced the chemicals earlier to protect it .
Fernox Omega metal body. Really well made, compact and seems to do the job.
Yes, those are very good filters
Expensive to add inhibitor with the sealed cans though
Thanks for that, very informative
No worries
very informative and useful video, thanks
Thanks!
Magnaclean is my favourite , as like you pointed out adding chemicals is a doddle. The worst are the boiler buddys (cant remember who makes them) but ive had 2 shatter when trying to get them apart.
So informative thank you!! Please keep posting!!! 👍🤘
Thank you! Will do!
With me, the Magnaclean's plastic body ripped when undoing it - best avoided. All metal is the best for sure.
The secret is a strong magnet to catch the magentite.
On mine I used a cheap all brass I think Screwfix or Toolstation model. It had a wide body so would catch non-magnetic debris, but has a _strong_ magnet, which was most important. The insides of radiators start to fall away once under use, especially the cheaper Turkish versions, the magnet grabs it.
At the end of the vid there was magentite in the filter after two years - not a lot but there. So much for inhibitor protecting the system. This may have collected on the inside of the heat exchanger being burnt on. Over 10-15 years that may be a considerable level of burnt on magentite.
Putting Sentinel X900 in the system will release crud which will be collected by the filter. X900 will only work with a filter. It is best to insert x800 before say a boiler change, then pour in X900 and X100 on commissioning. Any magentite or crud the X800 did not get the X900 and filter will. Tried it, it worked.
Love your videos mate
Thanks, but how have you managed to watch it in 20 seconds ;) ?
@@UrbanPlumbers I like all your videos and I’m 1 week passed my acs course. You make the videos clear big fan keep them coming.
On one job that the boiler was to only heat only a copper coil in a Multicalor warm air unit, nothing else, I used an Intergas heat only boiler using a brass pump. Then there was no ferrous in the system whatsoever. No filter needed. Getting rid of ferrous in a system is a _very_ good thing.
I have been waiting for new video release finally, love to watch your videos very informative and professional keep up and hope you will make video on how to use magnacleanse powerflush. Cheers
Thanks for a nice comment! The video would be rather why not to use magnaclense powerflush. I sold mine. It was not very good. Power flushing is based on high flow and direction reversal - something that maganclense cannot provide.
@@UrbanPlumbers I have bought mine few weeks ago but hasn't used it yet
@@UrbanPlumbers what would you recommend pls?
@@plumbingheatingandgas8545 Kamco CF90 - I have been using it for years and it has been great.
@@UrbanPlumbers many thanks
Great video mate, We use a adapted weed sprayer to inject chemicals into systems you can make adapters to fit anything will pump in up to about 1.5 bar no problems. We have also used to add air to a radator to allow temporay expansion so system can function till new vessal fitted works really well.
Can you post a link to the weed sprayer you use? I think Kamco sells something similar?
My Dad's radiator valve exploded under pressure because of haemotite and magnetite corrosion. These filters are brilliant.
I installed a magnetic filter (can’t remember the make) in an old system with a new boiler. Despite having flushed the system and added inhibitors, the boiler developed a fault which was traced to a stuck flow sensor. Taking it apart it was obvious debris had jammed the sensor. After the second time it happened, I fitted the filter and never had any more problems. After 6 months I inspected the filter and found a lot of debris in it. After about three bi-annual cleans, very little more debris was found. Never had any more problems.
Oh, you said it all, don't try to open the Fernox TF1, it's just trouble. Excellent video. I don't have a filter on my system instead I have 28mm copper circulating pipework, with low water velocity. I have a 3 story house and quite long runs of pipework and in the end I thought rather than take the risk with 22mm, 28mm would give the pump an easier time and the system runs quiet and the pump is 9 years old and runs very quiet.
I used the full metal one with external magnet on my system at home. Plumber helped me install it. Cleaned out so much filth on the system when I moved the boiler. Flushed it a few times in the first two weeks before a refill and dosing. I would always install one now having seen the filth. On a purely plastic underfloor system I am not sure it would be worth it though but for the cost why wouldn't you.
You would’ve surprised to see how dirty UFH can get
When fitting Glow-Worm boilers i fit their power filters. At the moment they give a 10yr warranty on a boiler with one fitted.
I like the stainless steel mesh and magnet protection on them.
very informative . thank you kind sir , I have subscribed 👍
Thanks for the sub and thanks for watching !
@@UrbanPlumbers 👍
You hit the nail on the head with properly designed, commissioned, and maintained systems not necessarily needing filtration. They should only really be needed for remediation of 'dirty' systems, like you say. However, people generally want a quick-fix, certainly in the domestic space, and coupled with the visual effect from the captured solids, this is what these manufacturers sell on. Good video and I admire your work. Just a tip to watch your terminology - these filters are simply capturing MAGNETIC metallic (not simply "Metallic") particulates, so realistically only iron in this application, but NOT copper or aluminium, to name the two other most common. In poorly commissioned and maintained systems, these elements in solution are bad news, and the effects far worse than those of iron species.
Problem with Magnetite ( the black stuff in closed systems ) and rust ( the brown stuff in vented systems ) is that when it gets into aluminium heat exchanger it causes electrolytic corrosion, resulting in perforated heat exchanger and also magnetic stuff is attracted to pumps because they have magnets inside, so bad news for pumps, and your pocket. I work on the principle that 'and ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure'.....
@@chrissmith2114 You'd think that boiler manufacturers would have them built in if they are needed. I mean they have built in over pressure valves these days.
Anyway over here those filters are added as an additional 200 euro item. And some salesplumbers even claim that the cleaner water will be better at transporting heat thus saving huge amounts of gas. Nonsense of course, if the water would be 1 % dirt (that is a lot) it would just make the pump run 1% faster.
Really great content! As a competent DIYer I have found your videos super informative. Have you ever had occasion to install (or replace) a Drayton Wiser Kit? We have an S Plan plus (Dual Zone + Hot Water) system using the terrible Danfoss TPOne-M (combined programmer/thermostat) and TPone-B Thermostats with an Ideal System Boiler & Kinspan Tribune Xe unvented cylinder. Have been looking at replacing the Danfoss with something but would need 2 x Nest @ £180 each versus the Wiser Kit 3 @ £210. (Hive is not any better and I object to Hive on principle as "technically" they require a new occupier to purchase new equipment, as there is no provision to carry out a factory reset)
I try to avoid S plan. DHWP is much better. I will have a look at Drayton.
Great video and really honest and informative. I fitted a Spirotech MB3 many years ago to my Boilermate 2000 thermal heatstore, which is still coupled to the original Ideal SE12FF heat only boiler (both now 17 years old!!) .
I've found it reasonably effective and catching some magnatite to then be able to extract, albeit it's hard to determine if there is more solidified or condensed material in the pipes of the heatstore and pipework to the boiler and heating circuit. I think I powerflush is required to get (hopefully) back to a good clean baseline.
My system was drained for a boiler swap, after 18 years of operation. When the water was drained, it was rather clean. Some oil on the surface, but otherwise clear.
Also, it is often forbidden from using additives by the boiler manufacturer. Also, filters are being sold aggressively, but the boiler installation guide doesn't mention them. PEX piping, steel plate radiators, cannot remember last time I had to fill for pressure loss.
So what are you saying???
Fernox TF1 Compact is a great choice. It comes with spare gaskets. They sell at a fairly high rate, if they were problematic they wouldn't have bought them...I think
We have column radiators from about 10 years ago, fairly certain if we'd have had a filter installed it would have saved the boiler.
New boiler installed, after a powerflush, even after all that, the filter has picked up a significant amount of large iron shavings (think large fish scales), probably 2 golfballs worth, against, that is AFTER a power flush.
Not unusual really, the flush will disturb the sludge but may not extract every last bit of magnetite.
The filter is obviously doing it’s job
You can dose the system via the drain valve in bottom of Fernox TF-1 , need the concentrated aerosol type and the adapter screws onto the thread on drain vent. So no need to ever remove the top of filter.
I have a magna clean same as the one you showed with wire mesh on the bottom. Does a great job with collecting particles. I have not ever power flushed in 20 years.. ever 7 years I remove the rads and hose it down in the garden
removing the rads and hosing them down is sooooo much more work than power flushing ;) Great it works for you.
Coolio crib, I have one like your with a vaillant ecotec 937. Works great. Keep an O ring kit as a spare. However noticed the 360 full turn isolation tap seizes up if not used. So every month turn them full 360 to keep things moving.
For the average consumer they probably couldn't care less I imagine unless their plumber tells them why they need one etc etc. As a DIYer, I went for the 'ease of install' and cost approach - i.e. inline install (not offset connections) and cost (around £60 in 2018) so the Flomasta (Screwfix) got the gig - I can't compare to others but on a retrofit, it has collected a lot of crud early on and allows me to top up the inhibitor when needed as I progressively decorate and remove radiators one-by-one (I flush them out outside with a hose). It works for me, I dislike the slightly plastic valve key which is far too flimsy and the lid which also feels a little scary when undoing or tightening...but it happens infrequently and touch wood I've not had any leaks (I keep a yogurt pot underneath in case!) As a product, they probably don't do any harm provided they are cleaned periodically and it helps to monitor the state of the system - it baffles me that the prices are going up (now £85) rather than down since every man and their dog seems to have similar designs!
I am working on my daughter's boiler system, there are a few leaks, Towel rad and the FernoxTF1 with the large plastic lid which several of you have reported once opened and cleaned out is difficult to reseal even with a new o ring. I am at this point, having been very careful to clean all surfaces, silicon grease the o ring and carefully screw the lid as tight as possible there is a leak from the coarse thread on the lid. So, not wanting to be defeated by this rather bad design I am now going to take it apart again, clean all the silicon off, inspect all parts and make sure there is no debris, etc and regrease the o ring and then wind in the coarse squareish thread of the filter body some PTFE tape so it partially fills the thread so it allows the corresponding lid thread to squeeze against the body thread having put silicon grease on top of the PTFE tape so that it seals and lubricates the screwing of the lid on the body. This is going to be messy but if it stops water leaking past the coarse square thread then it's a solution. Going way back in my early plumbing days I was used to using horse hair and plumbers mate to seal threads and that always worked, but of course that was on brass screwed fittings and not plastic square coarse threads on a plastic lid of such large size which makes it more difficult to seal. I will let you know what happens.
Gotta be the Adey pro 2 for me all day long, easiest to use and great for flushing/dosing chems.
Great vid Fernox Omega filter all day for me
I agree, Fernox Omega is a great unit. I also like Ideal filter, but I have leaking valves on Ideal
In my experience, nothing collects as much dirt and is as easy to actually remove that dirt as a Magnaclean. Also, I've definitely had Spirotechs that have filled up to the extent of causing flow issues on a boiler, this never happens with a magnclean as the magnet runs out of power before it fills up.
I've found it a bit annoying that the manufacturers have tied extended warranties to a certain filter to be honest, as In my opinion you're now choosing between an extended warranty with an inferior filter, or getting a Magnaclean.
But then as you say, a correctly powerflushed system doesn't really need the filter. Not for the first few years at least, but as time goes on, I do think it's worthwhile being there.
Also to add to that, with the Vaillant one at least, it's not really a 'free' extended warranty with the filter, it's just paying for a filter and an extended warranty hidden within it, the filter alone does not have a value of £150/160
I only rate the Magna clean and prefer the pro and pro 2 though i have used some Atoms in tight places. I like to be able to properly clean it out and see what is there. I have magna cleanse and often use it with powerflushing rig to great effect. I would always fit one.
Thanks for another great video. I have a S plan plus system fitted with a magnetic filter on the return just before the boiler which works fine, but also have a 6 manifold underfloor heating system connected to the the flow and return from the boiler, would you recommend fitting another filter on the return to the underfloor circuit and if so what make or type is suitable.
No need for another filter. They are nice to have but having 2 will make no difference.
I am (finally) getting a hybrid heat pump installed. The system has a lot of plastic pipework (35 year old) and still only has radiators for now as putting in UFH is too much of a hassle right now, and with all of the insulation added, the radiators do the job just fine at 35-45 celcius.
Maybe I should get one of these installed like the Spirotech Spirocombi, just to be sure. What do you think?
I have just had a new boiler installed with the manufacturer approved full metal filter to lengthen the guarantee, there was a Magnaflow on the previous one which is in good condition. Is there any benfit to using both filters on the system?
Excellent video and I agree these sort of filters are essentially a maintenance item that, regularly serviced, keep a clean system cleaner than it would otherwise end up without one. Could you talk about powerflushing especially deciding when to halt? What I mean do you just give it an optical bollocking or do you actually do the Adey (or similar water chemistry tests). Also, what do you think of VDI standards viz boiler water standards.
I am shooting a powerflushing video today. It will be live this Sunday.
@@UrbanPlumbers Excellent.👍
Do I need a filter on a system that has very little copper pipe work. I installed my system with with plastic coated inside and aluminium (unpornor) for hot water and underfloor heating?
have you worked on warm air systems eg johnson starley imbased in south west SCOTLAND
I remember the first year of my apprenticeship my boss took us to a trade show and Chris Adey was there humbly promoting magnaclean and my boss took the mick out of him saying it'll never work... that didn't age well!
In my defence I was far more interested in the Hepworth promo girls let's just say they had nice fittings that you'd definitely want to pushfit lol 😆
Here’s my experience for what it’s worth. I own an oil and gas service and repair business, I fit very few boilers, so I see hundreds of filters in a year. My preferred filter by an absolute mile is the Adey Pro2. Firstly the taps rarely stick or leak. The seals rarely fail and the drain off makes emptying for chemical dosing a breeze. The earlier magnacleans not so great. I won’t touch the red handled taps and I’ve also found a fair few cross threaded. The TF1 isn’t very good. I will not take the lids off of them. Guaranteed leak. All of the metal bodied ones supplied by ideal seem pretty good so far but the magnet seems a bit small for any serious debris. Those cheap ones like the ‘instinct’ filters are shite. I’ve seen loads leaking out of the dry magnet pocket. Seen a fair few of the MagOne filters supplied with Grant oil boilers fail prematurely as well. I’m not a fan of the spirotec. I’ve seen them on some filthy systems and been surprised at just how little they’ve collected. I do how ever like the fact that you can connect a washing machine hose to them and discharge into a bucket at ground level. I wish Adey did this rather than just a drain plug on the Pro2. If Adey did this on the Pro3 then it might actually be the perfect filter.
Interesting. The point of the TF1 is that you don't need to take the lid off unlike the Magnaclean, shut the system down, take the magnet out, have a cup of tea & let the crud settle out for a few minutes. Then simply crack open the tap & drain out the sludge & debris. I've been fitting them for years, & I show the house holder (the competent ones anyway) how to do it. Lots of very happy customers - and me.
Adey let themselves down by thinking pipe is never fitted horizontally so they're a way off perfect.
Fernox TF1 Omega is the perfect filter, brass body = no cracks, double o-ring = no leaks, dry pocket magnet = no mess.
Have a filter system with combi Boiler. I know what it does, but to the every day plod in the street, I don't notice what it does for the water system. I think the water quality is good in the north east
Love the magnaclean filters but always carry a seal kit mainly just for the large O ring on the lid, the old red ones are the worse for leaking. As you said they are also great for dosing with chemicals .
try and buy one for the push fit seals where the plastic connects onto their own isolation valves. if you find one please reply. actually i meant two. 1 for each pipe lol :))))))))
is right to repair even a thing. i was told that kit is not supplied. more plastic going to waste.
big shout out to kane tho just got my anyliser back and they swapped out at least 1 of the magnets on the back..................so it doesnt slide down the boiler.........side:(
no 9am delivery should prolly remove that from advertising if we as plumbers are paying for royal mail 24. at least reduse the cost.
As always great information and a great video, keep the great work up.👍👍
Thank you
I'm not a plumber so my experience is limited to one system (the boiler in which died for reasons I think unrelated to crap in the water and was replaced only last week). But it was a bit of a bodged system, I suspect run for some time without inhibitor, and the water in it was FILTHY. When the boiler died I took advantage of the downtime to remove radiators one by one and flush them out, in the garden, with clean water. Honestly, the amount of black sludge I watched going down the drain was impressive. But when I cleaned the Spirotech filter only a few weeks previously the amount of crap it appeared to have caught was minimal. In fact the only device which seemed to catch sludge was the plate heat exchanger, which I had replaced earlier this year. There's now a sparkly new Worcester Bosch boiler up on the wall, with their own brand filter which looks a bit like a Magnaclean. I'll be interested to see if it catches anything.
looks more like a tf1, i asked the op if he went back andtested to part L uk he didnt answer. he knows.
Great video. DYIer here... question for you: on a Audley Magnaclean Pro 2 is it a problem if the return pipe first connect to the top entrance and then exit from the bottom one? It would suit my pipes better so I was wondering if I could get away with doing it!
I don’t think it makes much difference
Interestingly the formation of magnetite on the inside of many industrial boiler systems is promoted (indeed is essential in many boilers) as the magnetite forms a layer preventing further corrosion of the steel ... so once formed there should be no further corrosion.
Given the tiny amounts being removed shouldn’t his settle in the bottom of the radiators where flow is slow as maybe after 30 years might give a cold spot?
Not much steel in your modern household heating system though ( except if you have an old system with cast-iron heat exchanger ) , mainly copper piping - or modern plastic piping and then brass or bronze fittings - maybe some stainless steel in the heat exchanger now, and maybe the coil in the DHW tank is stainless steel. So magnatite has no place in the new systems except as a 'future problem' ££££££'s... LOL Magnatite and rust are deadly to pumps because pumps have magnets and the motor is magnetic when it is running, many pumps have died of 'magnatite poisoning'
@@chrissmith2114 … exactly no steel whatsoever in a ‘modern’ domestic heating system … apart from all the massive radiators which will only increase in size as circulating water temperatures are reduced to increase boiler efficiency! 🙄🙄🙄🙄
(You might do well to understand the various forms of corrosion relating to iron and also read a commentary on bimetallic corrosion.)
@@andyxox4168 I understand electrolytic / galvanic corrosion very well, and steel / aluminium are one of the worst combinations. The reason you get rust ( the brown stuff ) in open systems and magnatite ( the black stuff ) in closed systems is due to the availability ( or otherwise ) of oxygen.
@@chrissmith2114 genius, ferrous oxides contain oxygen good, now have you also considered copper, aluminium and stainless steel and the ‘massive’ amount of carbon steel that you dismissed in your initial post? Perhaps you do understand boiler chemistry, at least at a basic level.
Gloworm boilers come with a metal body filter which if fitted extends the warranty.
We just had a two-port valve seize up. Turns out it was full of metal shards.
Which is disappointing, because our plumber installed a mag filter a year ago. But it's installed horizontally, and is probably too small.
Guess we'll get a bigger one. And hopefully powerflush the system again before installing it.
I've got a 11 year-old Viessmann that I've never had serviced and honestly I've not been that careful topping up the inhibitor when I've taken rads off etc. So, feeling a little guilty for my lack of boiler / system care I spent £30 on a TF1 Sigma on ebay. Fitted it over Christmas and it's definitely catching some crud but not as much as you might have thought... I will get the boiler serviced soon though, honest! 🤪
I've had 2 of the early red magnacleanse filters snap off in my hand showering me in hot heating water. I try never to fit plastic filters if i can help it due to this.
I had an Intergas RF 36 fitted, 3 years ago, was power flushed, but there wasn't enough room for a filter. The previous boiler, a Baxi 105e Instant ran for 15 years without a filter.
Both installers did not seem concerned about them.
No problems so far.
Yes Intergas can take it !
One of the problems I find with intergas is scale build up on the huge heat exchanger.
Get a combi mate
@@UrbanPlumbers I do suggest installation of the combimate and I have fit them. It's that I don't see many fit on the boilers I attend. They seem to be a given on installations around London and the the southwest because of the high ppm of lime and calcium in water.
The scale builds up inside the DHW coil when running CH at high temps, when the DHW is static. With an Intergas have rads larger than usual, which you should have anyhow for efficient condensing operation. Then the system can be run under 60C. Aware of the problem, the intergas load compensation control system is always running the flow temp right down below 60C, when it can. Also have the outside weather compensation sensor connected, setting a shallow heat slope. That will vastly reduce scale build up.
Also, descaling is easy:
*1)* A bucket, hose and pump.
*2)* Turn off the water at the stoptap;
*3)* Connect a hose to the cold washing machine or dishwasher tap;
*4)* Connect a hose to the shower hose;
*5)* Connect the hose to the pump.
*6)* Turn on mixer on full hot;
*7)* Turn on the washing machine tap;
*8)* Have de-scaling liquid in the bucket;
*9)* Turn on pump, pump through washing machine tap;
*10)* When descaled flush out the system well;
The boiler and shower mixer both get descaled.
What would you recommend fo rproper long-term limescale prevention?
not sure yet, testing different options on my installs now.
I think they are just more of a preventative device…I do agree they may not be absolutely necessary but it’s just a precaution I think…whilst they may not stop all dirt going into a plate there must surely be a reduction.
Hi i have a sentinel eliminator magnetic plastic bodied filter. Now it keeps leaking.sealed it around body where it unscrews with ptfe and also tried paste but still have problems leaking. Maybe pressure is too high 2-3 bar when hot.but even when droppedpressure releasing air and excess water still leaks.i know the video is 1 year old but tech hasnt changed much.so from your experience (anybody but also namely author) is there 1 that doesnt leak even under high pressure.system is standard combi boiler with 11 rads and 22mm pipework for return.or can i seal a different way.thanks in advance.system is cleaned every 1 to 2 years
Our housing association fitted a system filter 10 yrs ago when they installed the boiler with a cracked heat exchanger they still havent repaired the heat exhanger and they have never cleaned out the filter, the closed circuit of the radiators will not maintain pressure for more than 10 mins, the water is literally going up the chimney as steam.
I have an old fashioned vented system. Recently changed the boiler, now have air bubbles gurgling through the pipework in places. The pump isn't drawing air from the vent or the header tank, and there's no discernable leaks, so where is it coming from ?
Air left in the system when drained down for boiler swap ?
@@UrbanPlumbers Yes, could be, except it's been in for about 3 months now and all pipe runs bled.
air and dirt seps is definitely needed and mag filters help condition the system water
Spiro is favorable imo over any plastic filter I just wish Elysator made smaller version of the Sorbox
Inhibitors are just a marketing program
Good vid 👌
I kind of would like to get your opinion on the filters from Caleffi, if at all possible.
Never seen one
Depends how dirty ones system is. We got ours installed thinking there was a buildup of sludge, but it hasnt collected anything yet
Had a new boiler in dec 2022. Magnaclean fitted. System flushed. 2023 dec, boiler no longer giving hot water because the heat exchanger is absolutely full of black crud. So either mine doesn't work at all or its completely full.
Why not just have a transparent backwash filter ? Like the BWT one ?
You didn't say if they constrict or reduce water flow, and do you recommend flow or return?
they do not restrict the flow. Return is preferable.
Got a TF1 - I guess i better not unscrew the lid and use the little inlet instead to dose up
Yes, don’t touch it. Guaranteed to leak - 😂
We had a new boiler installed as part of our new kitchen extension. The plumber installed the filter in the roof space above the kitchen extension ceiling. A year later they came to service the boiler. Plumber said he'd cleaned the filter. Next morning we awoke to a flood of water! Turns out he didn't tighten up the pipework and the filter was incorrectly installed in the first place. We had to have new ceilings two new walls underfloor heating was ruined oak floors ruined etc, etc. Cost £1000s (probably over £10k) and nine months to get back to near normal. Our Insurers plumber said we don't need a filter anyway. So we don't have one now.
arrw that's a real shame. I would say its a shame that the plumber installed it incorrectly. I would say if you have just underfloor which is plastic pipes then no filter is required but if you have even 1x radiators a magnetic filter will alway help protect the system. maby not today but the later years.
An unnecessary bit of equipment in the first place which has now cost you way more than replacing the radiators and boiler.@@danieljjoseph293
British gas now fit fernox omega filters. Full metal but with an internal magnet.
that is a very nice filter
Microbubble deaerators should also be used for best results. If you can remove the dissolved oxygen in the water it should reduce system corrosion. The magnetic filter is capturing the dirt from corrosion once it has happened so if you can stop it in the first place then happy days! It's often a warranty condition that magnetic filters need to be fitted.
It’s only extended warranty condition. They can’t mandate it otherwise.
We often have to jump through hoops to get the extended warranty even if it's not the best way to do it!!
Have not installed a deaerator yet, I think I have seen a combined filter with it?
What helps is fitting a pipe with a vent on it at the top of the system or boiler. Gasses will collect over time just needing venting, or hey stay there not affecting the system operation. So best to charge at 1.25 to 1.5 bar, so when you vent you do not fill with fresh water. the pressure will drop back to near the recommended 1 bar. On Intergas boilers they have a vent on the top. Extending this up 6 inches to a foot using copper pipe with a vent on it (using a key), makes matters easier. Insulate the pipe.
Inhibitors are supposed to eliminate corrosion. They do not, only reducing it.
The water in a system will de-oxygenate over time. Reintroducing fresh oxygenated water via a filter clean every year may not be that heathy. Injecting inhibitor via a gun is the best way.
Thanks interesting video.Our c/h system is 38 yeras old now.I have still the same radiators Myson single ones,The first 20 years we had a small Glowworm boiler.The system with a tanks in the loft and a tank in the upstairs cupboard,We had the tanks taken out and a Combi boiler was fitted.The first 20 years no filter anywhere in the system.The Combi boiler we have now it is getting on has one of those spira type of filter.Is there any need for a filter? I know all the so called engineers servicing our combi boiler never checked the spira once.Except once I mentioned it to the fitter and he wouldn't check it.I checked whilst he was with me.Took the bottom nut off and water came out.The fitter looked scared he must have thought there was a lot of pressure in the system.They called these characters engineers where that is from I don't know.Probably no need for a filter or a powerflush they have to make money somewhere Never had a powerflush done radiators still hot so I must be doing something good.
How do you rate fernox tf1 omega, it looked good to me. Can you also connect a power flush
Good filter, yes there is an adapter for it
Baxi mi small print says filter must be fitted for warranty also shock arrester
Extended warranty surely? Glad I don’t fit Baxi.
@@UrbanPlumbers ideal supply them now to give extra warranty so do alpha and vaillant I’ve always put filters on my boilers also fit shock arresters which ideal tell you to fit and even fit strainer valves less hassle and call backs the better times money happy customer happy life
Klucz do filtra olejów (typu szczypce) otwiera wszystkie filtry
Pewnie by go z rur wyrwal :)
Hate the plastic ones, I have omga filter on mine at home , magna cleans leak of the lid sticks on
Magnacleanse is by far the best in my opinion although the 1st generation are shocking.
Magna Clean rullez!
Magna leak I call them ;)
@@UrbanPlumbers Magna crack .
Spirotech MB3 is the best..👍🏻
Always fit magna clean by a day no comeback
Useless on drop fed systems, domestic circulators don't have enough velocity to remove the particles in the radiators in such a system, only what is held in suspension and can be circulated past the filters.
Yes, that is correct. That’s why I don’t see a point in filters really
The filter is there to tell you if your inhibitor is working!!! Plus catch bits of sludge.
until you relize that velocity of water in your rads is soooo slow that really no filter is ever needed. Also, I do not use inhibitor any more
@@UrbanPlumbers Yeah it really can sludge up your radiators!! You don't use inhibitor? We I'm running 20 heating systems of my own and with inhibitor. No inhibitor then I get black or red rusty water, sludge in the radiators and metal flakes inside the boilers. With inhibitor the water stays almost totally clear. As an example, I went to flush out a system after 8 years only two weeks ago but I could not get any sludge out of it. Even removing some radiators there was nothing collecting in them. I banged them with a mallet upside down with a hose pipe connected and nothing came out!! I only use Fernox F1 with a minimum of three times the recommended dose and I maintain this level. I can do boiler swaps with no flushing because it is so clean. I flush to remove flux only.
@@imaginehomes3871 there are better methods than inhibitor
@@UrbanPlumbers Like what?
@@UrbanPlumbers I'm only a layman but I thought that using inhibitor was essential! I would be interested to hear more on this topic!!
magnaclean all the way
Can you recommend a flow meter to check if circulation pumps are working and how fast?
Taco setter
Have been fitting them since 2005. Originally as said Adey professional. There isolating valves butterfly type were brittle and broke to easy.
Micro 2 from Adey. Neat as long as you don't try and remove canister for a powerflush. Ni on impossible 👎
So have switched to Worcester bosch filters. Solid and easy when powerflushing 😂even though made by Adey.
FenoxTfno longer use as said don't remove lid 👎
Not a fan of any spirotech. Normally have to add valves.
End of the day. Service them every year but if you don't your risk.
Better to have one installed then not.
My opinion systems are better for them than not 👌
I never fit a magnaleak by choice. Filters are ineffective on dirty systems and not required on clean systems just as you said. If a system needs protection plate seperation provides total protection for the life of the system and for many boilers. Why spend money on an item that fails in its purpose ?
Too many fit them thinking they have to. I never see a real reason for filters myself.
I have a low loss heat exchanger on my system and wondered why the fitter hadn't put on a filter. Are they only really there to protect the boiler? Having removed a new rad recently to decorate, I was surprised how much black debris had accumulated in 3 months of it being in operation!
plus some boiler designs they actually create a vortex into something like a pressure gauge f means failure vaillant. mind you they zee germans...........:P maybe it was intended. immagine putting a rubber seal on a noisy heat exchanger and shipping it out as fully tested. then blaming installers. gas safe did nothing.
I'm really keen to talk to you about heat pump installations. I'm plumbing my own houses using boilers today with new pipes etc. I'm trying to make sure that I can put a heat pump into it in the future with little or not change. I'd be keen to have a telephone conversation or see one you on site at one of your installations. I cannot see the UK creating enough hydrogen. We plan to generate 10% of our gas needs with hydrogen by 2030 and ban natural gas boiler installation by 2035 - so where will the other 90% come from by 2035? Look at it this way: The current plan is not to replace 90% of natural gas with hydrogen before the natural gas boiler installation ban. Also, what is the point of building all that extra electricity generating capacity to create hydrogen when we can just send electric directly to the house? Because of the COP of a heat pump, we can have less power stations compared to what we need to generate hydrogen.
ACOPS for system filters besides it's a get out of jail card for manufactures warranty wise if one isn't installed. The magnaclean pro 1 had much stronger magnets although they were prone to leaks. Although they're still produced the magnets don't seem as strong anymore. System filters are parts of the belts and braces of a well designed system.
I can't understand why Baxi provide the Magnaclean Micro on the 836 and the platinum 40kw such small filter for such a high output combi's. 🤷♂️
What’s Acops?
Fernox omega for me
I think those two Baxi boilers are only rated at 28 kw for heating but I agree, they should supply a bigger filter.
Brass body filters are the best and to fill with chemicals is fine as long as you buy the rapid chemicals as they attach to the filter and quick press of the trigger it's done. I always fit intergas filters really like the design. Adey filters are rubbish always leak or the valves leak over time.
Agree on all points really. Intergas filter is just TF1 . Looks solid.
One thing that goes for Magnaclean is the fact that they have a very large bore, which in turn makes them excellent at removing particles, much better than other filters.
@@UrbanPlumbers yes I agree with the bore of the filter for adey is great I just wish they would make it a brass body with metal threads. I've had it so many times with tighten the filter to the isolation valves there is a chance they can cross thread and ruin the filter.
Adey valves are cheap and nasty.
Lewis, what do you mean by _"rapid chemicals"?_
@@johnburns4017 Rapid dose chemicals.
My #1 rule when hiring plumbers is if I can't understand more than 7% of the words that come out of their mouth then I don't care what they think.
Filters are great, but whose the smoking hot blonde?!
overpriced NONSENSE. 2$ cost to make and sells for more than 100eur.