How Good was Shroud?
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- gosuacademy.com/voo
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0:00 Intro
0:20 THIS IS AN AD
1:03 Early Shroud
1:57 Shroud's Impatience
2:20 2015 vs Envy
3:04 Top Pros have Insane AIM
3:50 Shroud's Advantage
4:23 Shroud's Movement
5:20 I thought 2016 CS was Better
5:40 Shroud's Peak
6:45 Role Change
7:19 Who Shroud Compares to
tags: shroud, csgo, counter-strike, counter-strike 2, counter-strike: global offensive, cs2, how good was shroud, shroud csgo, shroud was na's xantares 
Игры
i promise this video took far longer than 2 days to make
gosuacademy.com/voo
bro you sound like moga
I knew you and lau were the same person in disguise
as someone who's never played csgo is that wallhack feature i see everywhere standard to the game?
or is it killcam only?
Dunno how good he was, but he definitely got CS2 access before the both of us :/
Major winner?
@@nickdysert749 Nah, every major participant got the beta. The dude won EPL once and then nothing else.
@@nickdysert749 He never won a major
@@nickdysert749 He didn't win the major.
Cloud9's lineup when they won Boston 2018 was:
autimatic
Stewie2k
tarik
Skadoodle
RUSH
Wait, voo doesn't have access?
I think that ability to handle and put pressure on multiple engagements at once is what made him so good at PUBG and other BR games
100% agree. i think the time to kill in CS being super low means his exceptionally good movement is less important than in other games. i wanted to say it in the video but couldn't find the right place to put that bit
Playing pugs or online multiplayer games vs randoms made him good and playing vs pros he was mediocre or inconsistent. And im a fan!
I don't know how much he really wanted to improve as a pro tho, feels like he was just cruising with his team like all of NA was doing back in the day, I don't wanna say that NA had no care about winning but it felt like it was expected that NA would never win anything at that point, and I wonder if the players felt the same.
@@vooCSGO tbf, ~250ms for main guns is not that low. There are games like Insurgency and older CoDs where TTK can get even lower than 100ms without counting headshots. IMO slowdown from getting hit is way bigger detriment to movement.
@@talesvinicius598 i could imagine that being the case. Na teams didnt really stand a chance against EU teams, exception bejng that one major
I remember Stewie and Jordan, I think it was, talking on stream once about how shroud kind of got the short end of the stick with the coaching towards the end of his time with c9. They weren't trying to intentionally handicap him or making him do something he didn't want to do obvie, but they slotted him into playing a role that didn't complement his play style much at all. As an example it was mentioned how shroud always got tasked as the far site anchor on their CT side. The logic being that he was the best person to leave behind to cover a site by himself when his team was down players in the round, as he had the best chance of winning the aim duel against the entry fragger and still getting out alive to help with the retake. Which was probably true, but really didn't suit his play style that well, and was something their opponents could often figure and exploit by faking the other site and then overwhelming him with utility and aggression. In a different role he would probably have done measurably better, as evidenced by a lot of his most impressive clips coming from him lurking or rotating.
Yeah shroud seemed more suited to the more, say, active play styles a lot more. Probably helps is the fact that being active will keep you engaged much more than anchoring a site...
This was a good video, but it never mentioned the different roles Shroud had been in when apart of the C9 roster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was the main fragger (I don't know the specific name of the role) for a LONG time, then when Stewie joined, he became the entry fragger (which still suited his play style, as to why he was so good when Stewie joined the team). But then I remember him talking in a stream, right before he started full time streaming, stating that when Automatic joined he became the guy that died for information, and to make sure the entry Fragger and main Fragger get all the kills. So again, I could be wrong about all this, but he was always in a role where he needed to be the guy with good movement, but the need for him to have good aim dwindled as he was shuffled through the different roles in C9.
@@tate8579 that seems so backwards the newer people coming in should be scouts...sounds like c9 had management issues.
@@Eradicationist i think its less about tenure on roster and more about the managements opinion of current skill and potential. im not going to speak on whether the management was correct or not because i have no insight whatsoever, but im sure they relegated shroud because they probably felt that autimatic was either currently better or was going to be better in the long run than shroud.
@@Eradicationist autimatic, stewie 1 major
shrimp 0 major
shroud could get himself out of some bad situations some of the time. but better players rarely get themselves into such bad situations in the first place
Could not have put it better
Or they could just brute force it with raw mechanical skills. Also something shroud could never do.
@@runek100 this video talked about how one of shrouds only skills is brute forcing w raw mechs to get out of shitty situations
@@Biffy017 nah. I don't think he had the skills to do that in the past. And in today's cs, he would be in some teir 2 team
@@Biffy017 Literally one of the MAIN points of the video is that his skills weren't that crazy compared to an average pro
This is a really cool video. Honestly, it could even maybe use a part 2 to show how really god-awful strategy was in that era compared to now.
I remember watching some full pro match from 2013 major and it looked like a very average gold nova matchmaking.
i would love to see this
not entirely true, seangares was one of the smartest people in cs
@@kurziieee It's not that sean or anyone else at that time was bad/dumb, it's just that more refined play has been created over the last 10 years of studying
the game.
There have been 2 big steps CS has taken when it comes to strategy. 1st and the most important was the Astralis era and how they outstratted everyone and that era only ended in 2019 after teams like ENCE showed how a team with a bunch no namers can win the best team in the world with good strats and teamplay, so everyone else of course adapted. The 2nd step is the online era Gambit dominance. Until that teams were playing very inaccurate CS, not as much emphasis on sound and info control, not playing angles as precisely. In online era, when there were no audiences making noise during important games, sound control and precise positioning became very important and Gambit was the team to figure it out first and dominate most of the events with BIG. After that, everyone adapted and pro CS started looking a lot more accurate and everything to this day is very calculated.
I was lucky enough to get cs2 access and managed to get into a game with Shroud, Summit1g and Skadoodle on the enemy team. They were very good. Aim was insane and they actually got more kills with deagles than M4/AK. We actually managed to win the game because we got hard carried by a pro that we didn’t even know about at the time. Norsac(Carson) from NOUNS.
That sounds wild. I mean, one guy hard carried against those guys, damn...
@@friendlyplayer92
Yeah, they dont play the game professionally anymore. It makes sense that they cant keep up with someone who do it at the moment.
This video made me appreciate Zywoo a lot more. He does everything Apex asks and is still right on the level with s1mple
no he is not.
@@mrTruth007 stay mad
@@mrTruth007 As a S1mple fan, he is indeed on the level with the GOAT, or even better at least for now
Ye, I came back to cs and zywoo was best in the game. I saw a lot of vitality games afterwards and he really is. He can literally carry whole game. He is also not limited by awp, he is insane rifler. I don't think even simple can compare to him rn. Idk he is just insane.
@@runek100 It's not that uneven, could argue it either way or even both being even but there isn't much in it
Essentially, Shroud is a living proof that even if those cracked fragmovie creators went pro, it probably wouldn't work out due to their playstyle.
Back in the day running into those "content creators" in silver was pretty damming. Shots are a lot easier to hit when your opponents move like poo. Obviously not all of them get their clips from lower ranks, but many do.
@@regr3tti for all of the crazy clips, there's 100 that didn't work out. These guys can play 40+ hours a week purely for clips and end up with a 2 minute compilation.
@@Alxx_YT yea and pros hit those clips like every match a couple times… against pros
Great vid, solid take. To me it seemed like Shroud always enjoyed the 'games with the bois' aspect of things, more than actually having the hunger to win multiple titles. His stats in majors were particularly meh. Hence why when he found a groove in streaming, he went full send and didn't go back to pro play. Which is fair enough, noone can say it hasn't worked for him.
"he found a groove in streaming" esp thinking many streamers caught cheating, he was maybe good at the game but not at pro levels he sucked. being good and using cheats he seemed to entertain more when streaming his pc/stuff cant be checked/verified, then suddenly in his streams he became like a god esp auto snapping aims around walls/corners... have seen enough that he chose fame over quality. he sucked at pro level, maybe didnt earn much, became streamer made more money and didnt care what people thought of him as long as he made more money than pros... u see in his videos he try to move his mouse as much to stop auto aim tracking as when he stoped it seemed auto tracking. often he turned off to be make it less obvious but damn his flicks were surreal! noone moves mouse so fast aim too perfect and kill another completely opposite around corner snap aim, without over moving! it seemed almost wallhacking or he had someone playing with at all times for stream hacking,.
shroud is budget scream, the true legendary player of NA is twistzz
That WorldEdit game against Echo Fox is forever seared into my mind. So at least he isn't forgotten there...
The thing that makes shroud unique is that he is one of the best in every shooter he touches, he is never "the best" but always amongst the 1% of best players, thats what makes him such a great streamer and youtuber, because he can play whatever the new and hyped game is and dominate, pull of insane clips and just be entertaining. I dont rate him for his pro career, i rate him for beeing the shooter-multitalent he is.
Yeah he's very versatile in shooters
Objectively correct take
Any fps pro can transition and be good at other shooters.
Yeah, he specialized in being a shooter jack of all trade. When he tried mordhau it was kind of hilarious seeing rage at better player than him.
@@Josef_1186 watch s1mple play valorant, LOL
Damn it is the first time ive seen someone mention WorldEdit, I remember loving watch him play because in a round he could be an absolute MENACE with the awp, and the next one get absolutely destroyed. His autograph was my favourite and he still has one of the coolest names in eSports.
Nah, I hated his nickname because of minecraft plugins 😭
@@assetaden6662 minecraft is for de 12 years old
worldedit was a beast
That flipside team with WorldEdit, Blade, markeloff, and electronic was one of the most fun underdog CIS teams who used to just show up for majors every year for legends spots and sticker money lol
His problem was NA culture at the time. Play a lot of pugs against lower level players, and that trains you to take risks and make plays that you should not make or take against better opposition. The ability to put pressure on multiple positions at once is great if you are in that situation, but its a situation you always want to avoid when you are playing against people as good as you or better.
Based.
I feel like modern team infrastructure (coaching staff, analysts, mental coaches, more intuitive and impactful practice, etc) could have turned him into a superstar.
He very obviously had the mechanical ability to be at the top, but as voo said, the role change made his performance take a hit. I wouldn't doubt this played a hand in what made him fall out of love with competing.
Makes me wonder what could have been had he been given the building blocks to better adapt to his new role/ how to take advantage of his strengths in a more constructive and beneficial way.
Look at TenZ in Valorant. Still holds the record for ACS at an international event in hisnl early "prime", suffered greatly when the meta shifted, and now he seemingly found his footing with this new roster l, as the coaching staff eanted to take advantage of his X factor but in a new role.
Always been capable and has proven it, but he needed help to adapt and overcome. He's recently put down some incredible numbers, especially given the role he is in.
Imagine if Shroud had THAT sort of help 10 year ago.
Oh, what could have been...
Shroud saved me from a burning car
Same
Yep. Here too. Still remember the sound of his iron balls clinking.
He saved me $5. No sub scrub ❤
Great video! I remember my first time playing against him on mirage. The thing that caught me off guard was how fast he would go from target to target. Like he would adapt so quickly to surprise targets. You'd think you have an extra couple of milliseconds to take your time and aim since he was fighting someone else but he'd already be firing at you. What I learned is always play Shroud like a 1v1 and just out reaction time him. Like most players with an unnatural ability he won't try to out brain you but instead he tries to bait you into playing into his strengths. To see what I'm talking about Check out Fastest Sniper VS Shroud. He was definitely a beast in his prime!
So glad I saw this comment haven't been into cs for a few years and was trying to remember your channel name but couldn't
Lmao i actually do remember WorldEdit! Not because of who he was as a player though 😂 because he had the same name as a minecraft mod i liked so i remembered seeing there was a pro played named WorldEdit and thought it was funny. I think he played in Atlanta 2017?
I remember WorldEdit cuz ive followed the scene since 2014, he was a decent lvl Awper.
@@valitsemllaluokanavahyvaks3556 Yeah I barely remember who he was but I do know the name. I wonder if his name is because of the minecraft mod or not
I think flipsid3 got WorldEdit for s1mple if I remember correctly. Back in 2015?
God I miss pro cobblestone, I wasn’t part of the community during the Halloween stuff or whatever but when I got back my favorite map was gone :(
This "playstyle" conversation is interesting because cs was so less complex back then, because playstyles among top players are so similar now, we've refined so much everyone knows the best play to make
4:15 lmao "that's literally an Andrew Tate take" 😂😂
I've always looked at shroud as an aim god but after watching your analysis I think you're right. Very interesting stuff and a good lesson for us mere mortals too
Great video would love to see more of these
Watched Shroud play for most of his career, he was a huge favorite in NA because he was “The Goat” of Reddit clips. He was more popular as a streamer his entire career. But as a pro he was Good, not bad or anything. He also played with NA players that weren’t good, and when Stewie2k and Autimatic showed up, Shroud was already over CSGO, he was older and just wanted to play PUBG. So no he wasn’t a “Fraud”, because no ever said he was one of the best pros, just one of the best “Clip” makers. Insane shots and plays while streaming made him super famous.
I still get shocked about his iron sight kar 98 kill with the flick..i watched it live and my jaw dropped at that time 😂
bro i was like i haven’t watched a voo video in a min and you posted 3 minutes ago, W
Damn bro I watched you when you had like 5k subscribers. Good job in keeping up the grind!
Hey Voo. I love your channel! Any chance of putting together a beginner bomb planting and afterplant guide? There's literally nothing on RUclips that is not years old and for the old maps.
Very good video. I was half expecting you to suck up to him like others have in the past, but glad you were as analytical and reasonable as always
"the first thing you're gonna notice is that old inferno looked like ass" LMFAOOOO
Damn Lau just made this video. THATS CRAZY!
clickbaiting the thumbnail with NA's best aimer when Twistzz exists is wild
i love the fenom in the background
great video, this is the best explanation ive seen so far!
Ax1le in c9 reminds me a lot of shroud. Sharp aim, good movement, and overall great multi-kill potential although Ax1le is more cautious in his decision making. I think it would be cool to compare their playstyles considering their differences in achievements.
Ax1le is much better than prime shroud
@@bubbles13244 agree, he's extremely underrated. always consistent even when his team is struggling.
I cannot belive i just heard name WORLDEDIT in a 2023 cs video... that is the real gem in here
Yeah recently I've felt the same relating to impatience to shroud. I used to play slower, holding ramp on TT, waiting for the opportunity to come in, not die on CT while T's executing, instead playing the retake and so on. Today I smoke window and go into con every round before 1:30 on the timer or push top mid from short on CT, and I can tell my games has really dropped down if we are talking about performance. Some of the reasons why it is happening I can tell is that most of the soloq pugs just want to take most of the map control in first 20 seconds, the dynamic has changed massively.
4:30 that's actually true totally agree with that I've seen hundreds of clips of him . The way he holds angle from multiple player even when he's just solo is insane .But the only problem about shroud is he was very impatient and sometimes he doesnt make plays like specially in ct side, you know sometimes be aggressive do something, but he's just really really passive when holding a site and that's why he was very predictable . But one thing i notice is that his performance started getting bad when he change to be a support player rather than him being the allstar in his early years i think he struggle on that change doesn't fit hus style, also when pubg came out he wasn't focusing as much as he should be in csgo i feel like the passion wasn't there anymore and i think by the time he got really popular and making more money from streaming that really change him a lot. But i do believe if he didn't get too popular and making more money i think he can be as good as Simple ,coldzera , get right , forest because he has the potential but the motivation passion wasn't there anymore money and streaming change him a lot. But who cares now he's one of the most popular and richest streamer .
Lau totally didn’t just do a vid on this😜 but loving that you’re back with some content😎
I agree with you saying that Shroud may have one of the best movements even among CSGO pros. If any of you have doubts about that statement, go watch his kz map videos. He hits bunnyhops consistently rather very easily, can strafe while b-hopping rather easily, even masters fast ladder movement and strafes and all that, he is insane.
I do wish Shroud would react to this video about him.
finally a video i was worried u left yt :(((
Voo showing clips of Shroud from 2015/16 where he has 105k+ stat track kill on his Fire Serpent AK that he farmed for 2-3 years since this ak is from 2013 ... me having mine for 2 years with 3k kills on it
Cool.
I think with the face of burning out because of the shuffling of the team it would have probably been best he left when he did. I would have loved to see him move to a different team and try from there.
freakazoid just have a problem with simple that's all... there is not a world where you could compare the skill of s1mple and shroud ... I guess he's just defending NA cs with his most famous legend, even if stats proves that he was pretty average on general and his achievements proves it too... It's the same for scream, he was a monster of aim and highlight but in pro game, he was very average... people got hyped by highlights and impressive headshots but that's not what make a great cs player and this is something people needs to understand. And also it's not because you have average stats that you are actually failing your game. there is a lot going on during a round and a lot of them are insivible outside of the team com's but are actually more important
(zeus might not have the most impressive aim but he won a major (with rookies))
2 minutes in and you have literally named my biggest issue, now I play alot of Valorant now not as much cs but keep reading because it still applies, I could save myself so many deaths if I was more patient and I would get so many more kills because i've noticed i'm really good in the later half of a round but I tend to be over aggressive and impatient but when chamber was meta i was extremely patient and would hard carry every game so thanks for confirming
I think what freak said at 4:04 sorta hits the head of why everyone thought shroud was so good. he had this odd ability to get like insane 3k spray downs but when it came to just a 1v1 or utility or decision making he was usually kinda ass. and mayb the decision making and utility got him into these situations so often that it just happened more often naturally
Movement and aim are tied at the hip. His aim was good cuz his movement was good, and vice versa.
GREAT breakdown. The problem with NA CS is that they admire the flash over the brains, decision-making, and beautiful composition of teamwork.
I'm in NA 😪😪
just saw someone jacked your video idea and now it's recommended on my homepage.
NA's best aimer of all time is Twistzz.
I would love if you could do this type of analysis for TenZ's CS:GO career. I feel like it's pretty similar in some aspects.
cant wait for new voo content in cs2
nice pfp
@@freebeans4me gusic
not trying to blame c9 or NA teams but at the time other teams like LDLC, VP, Fnatic just has wayyyy stronger team chemistry. never felt like Shroud could count on his team the same way those teams could.
People who don't really play FPS games look at him and see the great aim and overrate him because of that. He has amazing aim for any FPS game...but so does any pro CS player. By everyone else's standards he's far and above them but in CS he was just pretty good
Shroud is NA XANTARES
Haha launders just posted a similar video i swear
I'm not gunna lie, worldedit on flipside was my absolute favourite player to watch- flipside was my guilty pleasure team
interestingly this draws a huge parallel to tenz in valorant right now
can´t agree more, i think he somewhat like scream if the aim is on point very hard to deal with if not, they are a liability
Shroud's best advantage is how fuckin calm he is every time he is in a really bad situation or position where even pros might start to get nervous. He just outaims multiple players at once lol
Really just no way near in aim to Twistzz and Elige. Shroud just had C9 hype
he also played when competetion wasnt close to as good as it is now. elige and twistzz played and still play in the most stacked time, comp wise, in cs history
@@ahyes7499 very true
Hey can you do a video on c9 major win or how and why it was a fluke ?
To this day I have a world edit sticker on my AWP, he was my favorite player during his rise, but when it petered I never thought I’d hear his name spoken again in a video about CS, let alone one on shroud
i like how this builds on Launder's video
Shroud is not NAs best aimer...MOST WELL KNOWN and BEST are two different things.
Twistzz is indeed the best aimer for NA!
Voo is back!
7:22 I know about Flipside and Worldedit.
I don't know if I would call that "good movement". Positioning would be a better descriptor, but even then it's not exactly good positioning either. He just has the recklessness to take all the space regardless of who he's against. It either ends with him being punished or getting multiple 1v1s. He never seems to sacrifice map control to get better engagements and this works both against him and in his favor depending on how the opponent responds. And like you said, if they figure him out, shroud's default is to just keep doing it because he doesn't really know how to not be the aggro player and he wasn't as good as Stewie at that role to justify it.
Wait why is there a picture of Shroud and not MarkE in this video?
Why are all these shroud analysis videos coming out? I feel like you read the transcription of Lau’s video from 3 days ago lol crazy coincidence or am I missing a meme here?
Two things I'd also like to add into consideration Shroud was playing in a time where (no offense to my favorite C9 team of all time), he didnt have a ton of talent around him which probably hard capped him. He also played in an era (still this era?) where NA is just not as good as EU. He had his short comings that you pointed out in this video but you can find clip after clip of pros calling him a freak aim god for a reason, he is legit very good.
The term you were searching for when describing shrouds special skill is called isolating 1v1’s. Shroud was really good at isolating 1v1’s.
There's a clip on Train where shroud baits the AWP shot out of draken in hell, and instead of fighting him, he fights f0rest who is now swinging from ivy and gets both. It's looks so simple but the discipline is crazy
Where have you been lost man? I missed your videos
How do I improve in matches where I am being instantly headshot or awpd nearly every life? Like after util dumps and executing site
What made me watch him the most was how easily he could pick up a new game and start frying
Wow you dropped this video right when I sat down to poop thank you so much
woah worldedit... I havent heard that name since like 2015 but it does ring a bell!
A new Launders video😱😱... Wait.
Voo and lau are the same person. Confirmed
what makes players like zywoo so great is the constant stream of mostly correct decisions that sets them up for success.
shroud was average in that department.
Why you and lau suddenly talking about the shrimp?
3:57 I have to watch his movement then, something can always be gained even from "average" players.
i know worldedit, how were they similar? wasn’t he an awper?
He is called aim god, because he doesn't play pro cs. In any other game or not in pro league, he is god. But if he played in today's cs, he would never make it to major.
I think Shroud is a great example of soemone who success from CSGO was from having strong aim and understanding of is role. I think the issue is even if he made space or got a kill Cloud9 struggled to pull the trigger to make use of his abilities. When Stewie cam on the roster he would create the plays and then shroud would back him to get the whole team to be more aggresive. Back before the Astralis Era of CSGO it was all about getting the pick and then executing. (set up a play and use that to create the perfect execution.) How ever that was never Cloud9s style. Honestly i think if Shroud has switched teams to say Team Liquid then their play style and couching would have made Shroud a significatly better player especially with Team Liquids issue being mental.
Do the same points apply for ScreaM?
Didn’t Launders do this same video?
Would like to see how you both handle this topic!
You saying he reminds you of worldedit “who none of you know” makes me feel so old😂
this has nothing to do with the video but that crewneck is heat 🔥
I enjoyed your analysis showing me things I didnt want to see and didnt want to hear.
I've heard several pros say that in terms of aim tho, Shroud is right up there with top players. Like mentioned in the video, it was definitely his playstyle and feel for the game. Thats why he can out mechanics lesser players. But when it came time to play against the actual good players, who were better just as good mechanically or better, but much more disciplined is where he was really struggling
holy this is advanced
In Pro play, it’s more about the team synergy and collective skill, rather than one persons ability. When C9 won the grand finals of the major in 2018 his team was stacked. Stewie, autimatic, Skadoodle and Tarik were a fantastic squad. He’s not the #1 player of all time, but he is still Hall of Fame level
How does one have good movement and good aim but can't do both at the same time
I've watched shroud for a while and there's this 1 characteristic that he has that I think gives him his edge. I think hes the best player in the world at improvising. When shit hits the fan shroud will be the first player to get his head straight and get rounds down range where they need to be. His god aim and movement help get him into and out of these situations. You're right when you imply that he isn't really a "smart" player he's just better than almost everyone.
He had the potential to be really good. I wouldn't say he is NA's best aimer though. I would put brax, Brehze, Elige, and Twistzz above him.
What makes you think that we haven't heard of worldedit?
Do Xanatares next cause I genuinely didn't realize when he disappeared from the pro scene and why
he plays for eternal fire
@@thenatous_ I don't have too much time to follow up on CSGO circuits, he is non existent in new highlight videos and I just looked up Eternal Fire and it's not doing all too well. Maybe he cares to develop Turkish CS more idk.
@@ambhaiji bad english
@@ambhaiji I think he just wanted to be on an all Turkish team. I don’t think he really minds about the lack of success, because he wants to play pro CSGO on a team that comms in Turkish.
@@OO7- Sure lemme know how I can improve.
Let's be honest, most pros from the early days don't compare to the most from nowadays. But we still love our Shrowdy Rowdy, and he capitalized on his internet fame, so good for him.
stolen video nice try