The Leica M11 is Here (Why it is NOT for ME). Honesty over Hype.
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2022
- #Leica #M11 #Rangefinder
My Website: www.stevehuffphoto.com
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Today I talk about how Leica Sucks....the cash from our bank accounts! I talk about my love for the brand but also why the M11 is the first M I have no desire to purchase, own, review or even try. Just not for me, but it looks to be a lovely camera for many of you who love Leica and the M.
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Хобби
For $8000 I don’t want any Cons!
I'm conflicted. On the one hand "booooo" for the clickbait. On the other, I clicked it.
Yeah, me too :/
your points are exactly the same as mine. I thought the M11 was a bit of a joke honestly. the ONE feature I was hoping for was a Rangefinder/EVF combo.. no need for 60mp... Sticking to my M10.
I agree that the SL2S is an awesome Camera. I am really happy with my M10R. The vibe and zen of the M is so unique and fun. I am in no hurry to put my hands on an M11. I think we are going to have to see how the M11 fairs after they have been on the street for 6 to 12 months.
I used to shoot rangefinders back in the film days, then went to SLR's and much preferred the focusing systems. At 70 years of age, I have a lot of trouble focusing especially with a rangefinder.....They look nice on the shelf, but I'd rater shoot with the Fuji X100V if I want that RF experience or the XPRO (1, 2,3).
XPRO 1,2,3 😍
Xpro 2 and now Xpro3...agree. And a/f. On the street a/f matters....if your targets are moving....or if you are looking at something and your "preset aperture" is not right....stuff happens.
Totally agree with you.
I started my photography in 1970 with my dad's M3 when I was still a student. When I started working I bought into the R system and later a M6. When the M8 was launched I bought it and later upgraded to the M240. But the last few years I found myself using more my Sony A7R III with some of my M and R lenses. I bought my first Sony ff mirrorless, A7R then the A7R II and later the A7R III.
As I am just a few years younger than you, I find it became increasingly more taxing to focus with my M240. Therefore, late last year I decided to get the SL2 to use with my M and R lenses. I knew there will be a M11 in 2022, but I felt my rf days are over. I made the right decision as I now could focus with ease and accuracy using the high resolution SL 2 evf.
@@nsng1298 my SL2 has a permanent position in my photo work.
I shoot Leice since I finished University in 1983. I have them all.😍🇩🇪
No baseplate is great news, all other new specs are not what I've been looking for - my M10-P shines even more now.
:-)
Hi thank you for your great information, can you tell me if you have tested the Voigthander Nokton 35mm f1.2 III aspherical if you can you tell me if it is better than the older II they made
thank you.
I appreciate your insight on Leicas. Your experience with the M series put you apart from other camera reviewers who only review the hardware when its new and shiny.
The EVF , anti-shock and anti-dust system would be installed in the next M versions, I hope. I still love both my M10 and M246 for taking pictures at the mean time.
Is it a Foveon full frame sensor?
Very happy with my M10-R Black Paint. 40MP is more than enough. And the M11 is mat black again. And I love the bottomplate which still feels old school. My 2 cents...
Beautiful pics at the beginning, especially the one with your son and his bike!
To get the brass plate on the top of the M you have to go with the silver version. The black model doesn't have it making it lighter also if I heard correctly. Just thought I would mention that.
I jumped from Ricoh GR to a Leica M10 last year so I could shoot 50mm. Tried Sony/Fuji but didn’t like the experience. I feel like I’ve already done a massive leap in sensor performance recently. Interested in the new Visoflex for shooting 21mm and 90mm. Will definitely tape it on 😂 …. If backwards compatible
Leica should just release a Q camera that supports interchangeable M lenses.
Rangefinders make sense in film world. They make little sense in digital world. Especially when Leica has such an incredible manual focus experience in the SL2 series.
For me, the Q is boring, and the M is so fun to shoot with. Different cameras for different people :)
i have used the Q ... but will always prefer my M10-P *White* Limited Edition + 50mm Summilux over the Q, the feel & experience is whole lot different, .... haven't tried the SL2 yet, my guess is, i would still go with an M over SL ... yes the SL-lenses could be sharper, but the pleasure of using & handling/holding the M sets it apart
I wish Zeiss would make a stills only ZM mount EVF ZX2 and keep the price under $2k. With Leica digital M cameras I need to delay my purchase until they depreciate for about ten years 😂
I would love to own a modern Leica, ANY modern Leica, but as a non-professional, I would struggle to buy the Leitz lenses and I see no point in buying half a system for the sake of owning a Leica. Reality has to kick in at some point :)
That makes sense. But just so you know, the Summaries, although no longer made, can out-perfoem some of the more expensive lenses, especially on digital bodies.
Lol. There are other options
Do the other way, buying the Leica Lenses and use Panasonic L mount system, I use the S1H and the handling is fantastic (weight similar to SL2-S ).
@@reddychan9819 Not a bad idea at all. I don't know if lens corrections work when you mix manufacturers, but it's worth investigating.
@@Biosynchro I put the APO 50mm on the S1H and it recognize straight away, Panasonic is closer to Leica than any other brand. Also Panasonic cameras work better with its own lenses and Leica lenses, even Sigma lenses have more delay like a third party L mount system.
SL L mount is a happy medium for M lenses and R lenses for Leica user.
I doubt that the m11 will have a problem with the electronic shutter or there is a mechanical shutter as well and the electronic shutter is there only as an option. That would not be typical Leica. They stand for perfection. We will wait and see. I guess Ashwin might be buying one and post a review on your site.
The low light performance on high megapixel sensors is a myth, yes there is more noise when zoomed in to 100% on a monitor; however, when scaled down to let's say 24 or 26mp the noise is basically imperceptible to the naked eye and the higher resolution still makes the image achieve a higher fidelity. Tests on this have been conducted by many channels, reviewers and pro magazines. Anyways, the only Leica I would ever buy is the sl2s or the Sl2, I am content with a fuji x-pro 3 and Sony.
Interesting points, although the EVF is intriguing me….My SL2-s does the job and more…
I like the external EVF myself. Me being a little slow to change would of preferred the round EVF like the previous one they have.
Have to agree with you on M11 and SL2-S. I have two for work and it effortlessly shot at 25k ISO at the weekend and the images just have so much personality, colours are great just love it.
Which camera you recommend then
@@gurugamer8632 Depends what you want it for. I have cameras for work and cameras for personal use
@@Dpul945 Which one do you use for personal use?
@@gurugamer8632 I have an M8.2 and a Q2 monochrom
@@Dpul945 is that black paint or black chrome m.2?
What would make perfect sense would be for Leica to release an 11 XYZ with EVF and IBIS surely that would sell. A few bits of electronics would be cheaper than mechanical rangefinder. By some estimates the cost of rangefinder is $1k. M11 as such would keep the devotees of rangefinder happy.
I concur, I wish the new M ditched the rangefinder like the CL andd had a 2.5mp Oled EVF. My 74 year old eyes can still focus
F1.2 lenses manually with an EVF and with any wide angle to telephoto lens. Unfortunately Leica only makes them with L mount,
so you have to have an M mount adapter to mount M glass. Why not make a mirrorless camera with native M mount.
Make it with IBIS and phase detect like an Olympus EM1 OMD MK3. Think of all the F1.2 to F1.5 Voightlander lenses you
could mount as they come from Voightlander.
I see an opportunity for M-Mount Digital Zeiss Ikon and Voigtlander Bessa-D to make 'm like you propose.
Higher MP cameras only show more noise when at 100%. Match the image size with a lower resolution camera and the noise isn’t really much worse.
True, and while I have no inside information, I would hazard a guess that downsampling the 60 MP sensor is exactly what the "lower resolution modes" of this M11 he talks about are doing to achieve lower noise. As you state, you can do that yourself in post with any high-res camera.
Yes but higher megapixel cameras have more detail for denoise software to work with. Two edged sword. I think 60mp is ridiculous and I think 30-45 is the sweet spot for 35mm cameras doing high detail work. And 16-24 the sweet spot for 35mm cameras for most users.
If Leica came out with a 12MP I think we’d rejoice.
Before BSI, the electronics would definitely make smaller pixels worse since you started losing fill factor with smaller pixels due to space wasted on electronics. This is exactly why BSI was pioneered by Sony, in order to get past that barrier and make pixels smaller, and as far as BSI is concerned, the noise is pretty much the same when the image size is matched (upscaled smaller image from larger pixels or downscaled image from smaller pixels).
MMM not sure about this - my H6D100c has virtually no noise (at any ISO) - used professionally - where as my toy Q2 does and at nearly all ISO's and when compared the Q2 to my other Pro camera the 907x this also has virtually no noise - but only noticeable when used as a second camera to the H ???? Before Hasselblad we had a Fuji XT2 and a GFX50s - the two were noticeably different in noise.
@@panh141298 my canon non bsi 45MP R5 sensor has better noise than my Sony a7iii bsi 24mp
I am about to buy two film bodies - probably the M-A. I use primes but another reason is to have a second body for the exact case of their service being extremely slow. I've read on the forums of people having sent their device for 3-6 months for simple rangefinder adjustment. An absolute joke.
Wow. That electronic shutter problem seems huge. Might as well get an E-M1 iii and shoot in high-res mode and save a bundle.
I bought an M10 used a little while ago. I love it.
24MP is ideal. Basically prints any size you could ever want in real life if you know how to frame your images.
No image stabilization at 60MP means ANY minor camera shake is ruining your shot. Landscape and architecture shooters will still go for Fuji medium format or Sony because of the lens options at the longer end. I don't see a use case really for 60MP on an M type body other than only carrying a 28mm or 35mm and then cropping in - in which case Leica shot itself into the foot because who's going to buy 50mm, 75mm and 90mm lenses?!
I would love to see a CL2 with 24MP, faster auto focus, IBIS and weather sealing. I would buy that instantly.
Important clarifications:
1. Higher megapixels does not equal more noise. This is a myth.
2. The camera has the normal 1/4000 mechanical shutter. The electronic shutter is an option up to 1/16,000.
3. Early reports say it does quite well in low light.
Still might not be for everyone, but important to note
Leica would not release it if it performed less well than the current sensor. Having said that, the M10-R's sensor is slightly superior to the SL2's.
1. lowe megapixel SENSORS do produce better low light quality. (just for the sheer fact less pixels are cramped in the same size sensor)
2. doesn't not negate the rolling shutter issues
I'm pretty sure the "higher megapixels not equaling more noise" statement is false assuming the individual photodiodes are squeezed into the same surface (senzsor size). Could you provide some literature/sources for your claim ?
Looks like no camera company divides opinion quite like Leica does.
I've never really liked the rangefinder viewfinder. Apart from the alignment issue, I would not be able to use my favourite focal length 40mm without compromise because there are no 40mm framelines. This is just one problem Leica have in that by going with nostalgia, they are sticking with some old, compromised technology (Leica users will say that's the point) and more importantly, limiting where they can go with the M line in the future without straying too far from it's 'film camera experience' roots. I would say, between the current cameras (including this M11) and secondhand market, the perfect Leica already exists for most Leica users. Saying that I have no doubt Leica will still sell enough M cameras for years to come.
wish Leica had something like Fujifilm's X-Pro line where you can switch between OVF and EVF
100% agree with your assessment. The next will be a EVF-based M-camera with FF sensor as alternative to the std rangefinder. Such camera will be a really interesting move.
Very helpful infp regarding alignment of range finder.
Never thought I'd hear that come out of your mouth.
Fact is, people change.
I totally agree. Leica sucks. There is no rational reason for a Leica. It's a technological dinosaur. It lacks so many features of a modern camera. Things I'd love to have seen with an M11 would have been an EVF and a flip-screen. Clinging to that mechanical rangefinder makes it so much more inconvinient, I have to put so much more effort into every image. But that's exactly why I love my Leica! Because it requires me to create images, not just grab them.
Odd comment, you damn Leica for it's old technology then say it's benefits you when taking pictures.
It is too easy to take photographs with modern cameras and have the camera do half the work for you though. I compromise with my A7III and manual Voigtlander lens by turning off all the automated features and I can't use autofocus anyway. I like being able to know I'm in full control and not relying on any auto modes. To me, it's more satisfying when seeing the results.
As much as I would love to have a new Leica I can't justify it when my old M240 and small primes gets the job done very well for my type of shooting that I enjoy. I use an Olympus VF-2 with my 21mm lens for framing only.
I will stay with my loved M9-P & M9-M. (M4-P for film)
Excelent points, thank you.
Two happiest days of my life, owning a Leica m240 and the day i sold it.
I agree with you. I have M10 but not interested in M11. I’d rather use my 💰 to get the 907x anniversary edition if I wanna go for 60 mega pixel. 🤦♂️
Didn’t they send you one to try?
the lack of innovation in the rangefinder (lack of some kind of hybrid OVF/EVF) is really disappointing.. there was an opportunity to do something new here while keeping the 'classic' design. Leaves little reason to choose M over SL, GFX, other systems.
It has a BSI sensor, which is supposed to help with low light situation.
B&H told me the M11 has more dynamic range than Sony A7r4
@@gurugamer8632 yea apparently Leica has a new tech that helps with low light when using lower mp
The M11 form with an EVF..............Heaven!!!
I left for Sony. I miss the rangefinder. If I was rich maybe I would have both but the price for 10R or 11 just too high and niche. I did get A7RIV and A7C. Enjoy the RIV but really too many megapixels. A7C 24mp vs 60mp is hard to really see much difference unless cropping heavily(I don't do long lenses). Honestly for landscape my Olympus EM5.3 and pro glass is my favorite.
very honest opion from a leica fan
I totally agree with all your points here, additionally the price is a bit too much for me. Will keep on shooting my film MP and Sl2s
Cannot ask you a question? I have noticed that the original SL occasionally exhibits aliasing. This is seen in hair, mostly. Have you noticed this in the SL2-S?
@@Biosynchro I shoot mainly events and products with my SL2s alongside a GFX. So far I have not noticed aliasing the IQ has been really nice, also with M glas.
@@MarcS4R Thanks Marc. Would you say that shadow recovery is similar between the SL2-S and the GFX?
@@Biosynchro no, the GFX is better.
@@MarcS4R Interesting. Thank you once again.
It has been proven that more Mpx does not degrade image quality in 2021.
True, mostly. But the pixel density of the sensor in most phones would not help if it were carried over into bigger sensors.
totally agree.Even the hardcore Leica fans one day are going to wake up.
I have owned several Leica Ms over the years, 3 M6, M Mono, 2 SL's and a M10 Mono. All the M's are restrained by the manual viewfinders that require incredible accuracy when focusing. I was hoping Leica would change this on the new M 11 and use more of an electronic work around that is better than the split image focus and highlighted color fringe used on the newer Ms. I also thought they would include IBUS as they have on the Leica SL 2 with I also use. I think of my SL 2 as a better M camera.
Fuji X-Pro 3.
Great review
Hope things go well with you ....
About 5 minutes in and I knew that this was/is the only review I need to watch. Thank you, and I mean it, for not being a corporate man and for doing things while applying ethics. Newer is not always the way to go and I don’t think anyone else will say, “hey, this is not for me.” I am with you, this is not for me either.
I own an A7III and the A7IV is definitely not for me because none of the newer features are necessary for my photography and I'm more than happy with 24mp. It's amazing how many people simply don't get this and think more is better.
the usb c is charger input is underneath on the side
You just made my day! I love my M240 and M-P240 and my three M lenses (21/3.4; 50/1.4; 90/2.5). I love the EVF too, cause it allows me to shoot from a lower angle and to use my R-lenses too. The M10 isn't for me, and the M11 will not become my tool of photography. Keep it simple, go M240!
Since 1953 people have liked the look and feel of the M-series cameras. Leica's SL-2 does NOT look like an M-series camera. That's a real shame in my opinion.
But then the SL would not be an SL camera, but an M....
With 60 MP IBIS is no luxury. Fuji has got internal EVF for years in their X100-XPro series. Not Weather resistant. The SL are a more modern and practical choice to use the same lenses and at a cheaper cost.
Lovely talk, but what drives me nuts is that the RUclips review community has been telling us lies about high resolution sensor and noise since the beginning and apparently is not going to stop any time soon. Off course it looks noisy, it's because you can see every detail better. Nice and less nice details. it's plain logics. But they don't actually produce more noise. When you compare the output once it's a finished product, the high megapixel images will always look better. You should talk to editors or printers about this before putting it out to tens of thousands of people.
If i'd ever buy a Leica into my life, it would being someday a analog Film Camera, or *if* digital, without LCD, because i can't stand it. This sucks really, destroys the smooth rangefinder Look. Think M60, M-D, M10-D. These are really cool Rangefinders, even for being "digital". All the other Leicas not being Film, i really don't like them from their looks, hence the LCD thing. But because i am not Richy Rich, i am just using my Film Rangefinders, and SLRs, and digital (seldom) my Fujifilm Gear.
For what a Leica is suppose to be I find it unacceptable to pay $8000-$10000 for a body and right out the box have the rangefinder out of alinement.
I see lowest ISO is 64. Nice feature but not worth trading in my M10
Yeah... it was obvious a clickbait title, but I know you are 100% right with your comment.
I agree. I think Leica has done everything that I can do to bring a rangefinder into a mature technology. Leica’s going to have to decide how it pivots to an all digital camera that uses all that M glass. They might be smart to offer all those M lens in L mount. No adapter. Just thinking outside the box an M type camera with M type lens that auto focuses like Q and each lens is leaf shutter, no shutter in camera, like Hasselblad. Bought a SL 601 new just as SL2 came out, best decision, I shoot M glass, fast primes, and cherry pic at each focal length. I have two Voigtländer lens, one Zeiss, one Leica. I don’t have to tell you that sensor in 601 has not been eclipsed in 2022.
Agree that the SL (601) is a tremendous camera. Currently $2K vs. flagship pricing when introduced at $7495. I believe the SL System was their pivot. The SL lens range is FAR superior optically to the M-glass. But of course they're MUCH bigger.
I sold my M9 and M240 and will never buy a M again without built in EVF … RF sucks
Fujifilm XPro2 with built in EVF is pretty neat combo.
I agree with your comments regarding the EVF. I have the M240 and do have the Olympus EVF for it. It kills me to put that thing on there because of the way it changes the look of the camera. I know it sounds silly but its like putting a ski rack with a mountain bike on a classic car. :)
I was expecting the title to refer to the service department!
No built in EVF please. Trying to turn it into a Panasonic or something.
Weird EVF. Should be internal by now. Range finder too hard to focus with fast glass. Guess the millionaire 20’s/30’s crowd will love it. As a former owner of the M9 and 240 with 0.95 noctilux and other lenses. Oh well. Canon will be happy. More business for them.
I expect that the M12 would also be a rangefinder. But, I imagine that there will be something like a M11-E with an build in electronic viewfinder as an additional Model in parallel to the M11, M11 Monochrome, M11-P, M11-D (!).
I have a M9 and maybe I will stay with it! too expensive. this new baby! Maybe going for a SL2 with then lens adaptator
I stay with my 262 without a screen.
"Leica Sucks..." - clickbait titles are a thing too
Leica needs to build a multi-mag viewfinder, like the Xpro 1 and 2 had. 0.72x standard magnification, and 1/1 magnification for 50-90mm fast glass. Or A and B models, where each goes in an opposite direction away from 0.72x (wider or narrower). Hell, what about building your $8k body to spec - pick any sequential three magnifications from 0.58x to 1.4x!
I wish Zeiss would make a stills only ZM mount EVF ZX2 and keep the price under $2k.
Great videos.
Give it to me. I’ll review it!!
If someone can't deal with 4000th of a second, get an iphone. I agree with the readjusting of the rangefinder issue though.
Totally agree 👍🏻
Excellent!
attention, the sensor is not only 60 mpx, it can also shoot at 18 and 36 mpx, I recommend you try it and will change your mind.
this is exactly what I thought. I will not upgrade my M10R.
And I love my bottomplate, my M10R black paint looks perfect clean.
That sensor is terrific from what I know about it. It's the same tech as the S3.
Why would you upgrade from the M10R anyway? How long have you had the M10R for for heavens sake?
11k camera and jello?..I call that lemon 🍋
Yup exactly
I guess it must be a copyright issue why they don’t come with something like Fuji does on the Xpro line. The only problem I had on the Fuji was, that the OVF was useless when using a non Fuji lens like any M lens. Also don’t see a real benefit of having 60mp in a rangefinder camera without IBIS. If you need that, I guess you would buy the SL line. My dream M12 would be a mixture of the Epson R1D and a Xpro OVF/EVF solution.
By the way I also love my SL2-S as a M camera too.
Actually, given that a lot of RF lenses don't perform well in the corners, it makes sense. You could crop in quite a bit and still have 40-50Mpx to play with.
It’s a rangefinder ffs. Stop expecting to be a Fuji or a Sony.
I have an m10-r and don’t see the justification for the m11. My wallet is happy.
You say that now! 😉
@@CrueLoaf lol
Oh, and I am a Leica shooter.
The new battery design is positive change.
How can you say a camera sucks without doing a proper test? That is a shortcut type of attitude
For some reason I never liked evf. Maybe because I been shooting film for so many years. Looking through a regular vf have no issue for me.
In fact as a street photographer like me most of my time I'm using zone focus on my Leica. All I really need on the vf is that split second of decision on composition...
Digital Leica fanboys are crying :)
Thank you for the honest review. I’m abit surprised they didn’t design an ibis solution that could be turned off for this high price. Leica snobbery may very well kill this brand.
LOL! IBIS on a Leica M? Why? Learn how to shoot and stop relying on tech to close the gap on your technique
@@MrLeicamaster have you ever shot 60MP in a reportage situation? If not I challenge you to blow up your shot when you do. If Leica is going to pitch 60MP they need to pitch the technology to support that. This ain’t film.
I'm not sure of there is much room to do that. But, they could do electronic IBIS, given that the LV is stabilised that way.
@@CaptainFuzzzy Hahaha why would I use a Leica for reportage? Give me a break with that BS. How did the reporters of old ever use the Leica M film cameras to do reportage?
@@CaptainFuzzzy I’m sorry but you don’t need IBIS on a Leica M. Leica has other cameras with IBIS that are much better suited for those who can’t seem to master technique.
Interesting; so many negative comments about something you have not used. I never ate pheasant, but I do not like it.
I have lost my time… not a review, no M11 in hands… not need for such a post.
So, yes … clickbait. 🤓
Edit: sort-of. 🙂
Can’t believe it Stevenson I’m disappointed in you !!
The best digital Leica was the MP type 240. That one was 24MP with a sapphire crystal LCD screen.
Leica should make a Q3 with interchangeable lenses and a better low light sensor with a phase detect autofocus system. That would be a dream camera. Of course this will never happen. Q2 uses a leave shutter as far as I understand it which would require building out a completely new line of lenses. There just isn’t a perfect camera.
So this is click bait. Thanks for confirming after denying. Useless.
To my knowledge shooting at lower resolution will not make any difference on noise levels here. It will only use part of the sensor. It will not change physical characteristics of the sensor. The pixel density will be the same. So the only difference here will be smaller files to process.
It is a click bait after all
Leica sucks it all from your account, sadly true