Darrick...thank you for exposing this most unfortunate phenomenon in a very detailed and informative way. Great job! You just saved me from experiencing much frustration and buyer's remorse, my friend! I cannot express in words how much I appreciate you taking the time to get this message out to all of us. I "was" going to buy one of these keyboards! Your message is priceless!
I really try to give people the good, bad and the ugly when doing a review. When Roland, Guitar Center, Anderton's, Sweetwater etc do a video showcasing an instrument it's a "commercial." There is nothing wrong with a commercial but you have to know that's what it is. Tutorials done by the companies are to provide support for their customers and entice others to buy as well. Of course any sponsored video is an advertisement as well. But I try to give informative feedback from the perspective of a person that musician that uses the gear on a regular basis.
Damn dude, I just wish the Yamaha's had a better keybed for piano. The new Montage M8X keybed is so light. I'm sure it is great for everything else, but for classical piano playing it sucks. What are the main piano vst libraries that you're using with your Fantom 8? Also, would you mind sharing your velocity curves?
Fantastic review Darrick! I've had the Fantom 08 for almost a year and your review is spot on. Great keyboard that comes up just a little short in a few areas. Actually learned a few tricks from this video! Love hearing honest insights from a real professional keyboardist. Cheers!
Recently picked up a Fantom 06 for my small studio. Came in expecting a review, instead got a whole tutorial. That was a pleasant surprise and I learned a few things I didn’t know yet. Thanks!
This is a fabulously helpful Fantom overview. Thank you. I have had my fantom for more than a year and have had a terrible time trying to understand and work with the sequencer. I really bought it for the sequencing, which may have been a misunderstanding on my part. Your video is helping me to understand the reasons for my issues. I am a very long-time Roland user, and the different way the entire GUI works is so different from every other Roland keyboard I have ever used. The patches are now tones, which fit into scenes. This was completely new terminology, different than any other terminology for 40 years before.
I've had mine for about the same time. I also find it pretty complex to get into! This video was great - A whole bunch of front panel buttons I had no idea of.
@@GaryBeilby I think part of the problem is the manual isn't written in a way that explains very well. And I have watched every Ed video, and he doesn't explain things very well. It's a shame, bc once you learn the keyboard it's freaking fantastic, but the learning curve is straight up.
Thank you so much again, Darrick, for this great review. Thankfully I have already got a MODX7+ which I could use together with my iOS instruments to overcome the polyphony issues.. Great to see the integration with green/red lights too..❤
Upon receiving the Fantom 08, I played the first patch 'Homecoming' and noticed, immediately, notes cutting out. I think videos like this are important to try and clarify what type of musician this board is best suited to. Is the future a controller and laptop for everyone? As in, manufacturers may move away from making self-contained stage keyboards. Thanks for the video.
That's sad because if consumers don't know these like these there can be a lot of buyer's remorse. I'm really on the fence as I was looking for a main keyboard and now I don't know what I can get that's very close to this and yet handles polyphony well.
I've had my Fantom 07 for about a year now and I have to agree with everything I've seen you say so far. It's been a good sounding, easy to use, yet deep instrument. Very capable. I wish it had more room for user multisamples but I did dump Supernatural Piano #2, which freed up space for about 5 of the SRX based sample expansions, which lessened the need for extra instrument samples.
I don't even layer, and run into polyphony issues in the flagship, especially with the n/zyme model expansion. Some people say that I am doing too much, and that my expectations of a workstation is too high, but running into these issues on very basic patches is a factor. I couldn't imagine running into these problems in a live setting, but after talking to a few people, realize that it is a common occurrence. People are upset, and rightfully so. With the polyphony issues, it makes producing within the Fantom a chore. I only have one keyboard...and it is a problem. Thank God it doesn't leave the studio, but with that, functions more as a MIDI controller than anything else. Kind of bogus for the price tag. I was wondering if these polyphony issues trickled down to the 0 Series, so thank you for answering that. I really appreciate all of your content on the subject. Great work!
Yeah, the polyphony limitations of this keyboard (and the Fantom) can be a real issue. And I have found the overall response of the Roland community to be dismissive. I've heard the kind of music you produce and the Fantom(s) just aren't up to the task. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a few niche people running into the issue. And yes, I agree with you, buying it as to use as only a MIDI controller is not cost effective. Thanks for watching. Always appreciate you stopping by the channel
With said limitations, I can't reasonably even see the point of owning one. Sure, to some it's pocket change and having a controller/hub seems to be the name of the game. But still. Standards are standards. It's an expense. That cannot adequately do better than a tablet in a key area. Thats insane. I don't recall having issues with Kronos. I've seen Darrick's comparison with other devices. And as mentioned elsewhere never got it to choke like this on the FA. So what gives. 4 grand for something that struggles with a Piano? Might as well just combo the Yamaha CP with a Modx and avoid it all together.
Great video and playing, particularly your organ work! I am a Kronos user, but I remember being tempted by the Fantom and especially the Fantom 0 series because some things maybe seemed more “modern.” The more I learn about them, though, it just feels like compromises left and right compared to the Kronos. Yes, the complexity is higher, but it’s almost always possible to achieve what you want on Kronos with amazing polyphony. Hard to believe Korg nailed it so well over a decade ago.
I tried your exact setup with the Fantom 08 and I did not run into the problem as quick as you did. 6 tones, SN, violins, celli, violas, bass. They must have done something about it? (My Fantom 08 is only 3 months old now)
This is a great overview of this board. I definitely do feel this is the right board for the very niche use case (marching band, potential indoor winter percussion) a group I work with is looking for. It fits out prety much everything we need it to do.
I personally haven't found the polyphony issue that limiting, especially since you can set where in the sound sequence the part is cut if polyphony runs out(zone voice reserve to limit or not).. also you can limit unison.. unison full is 8 voice layers max per Tone i believe, and tones only have 4 partials, the others are used by added effects to the tone, [TIPS- if using amplitude envelope, having decay, or realease Off/On, either or still same loss, it will continue to use more voices, so u may be using voices that you have no use for. U can also change/blend tones in Wave Number in OSC prm menu (L/R Wave Number channels each use up a voice.] Also, many tones have partials (each partial uses 1 voice) that can be turned off and make little to no difference in the tone, such as a very quick light click noise or something similar. However, SuperNATURAL acoustic instruments engine u can't turn partials off on fantom-0, fantom u can i believe.
I have another video about the "Big" Fantom: ruclips.net/video/M74BhNKkXnE/видео.html In this video, I go over some workarounds that can be used if a person is running into an issue. Many people never run into a polyphony issue, mainly due to playing style. When I am playing 80's covers with my band, I never run into an issue. Lots of Pop, 60's to 80's Rock, and I never have an issue. Furthermore, my band has two keyboard players and a horn section. So many times, my job in the band is very specific and doesn't require layers, especially because I always have two keyboards. But when I play modern Gospel and Contemporary Christian music, I have issues. Most of the music I play was written less than 10 years ago in those genres. People are using Omnisphere, Keyscapes, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, and other VSTs on the original albums. My job is to replicate that sound on a weekly basis. The Fantoms really struggle. I am aware of workarounds as my livelihood depends on my musicianship. My point is, however, such painstaking workarounds simply aren't necessary on the competition. As demonstrated here when setting up 6 solo string instruments. The Montage had no problems. The Fantom-0 struggled. I could have used the older string sounds that were found in the XV3080 sound module from 23 years ago, but those old samples are clearly inferior to the new SN Acoustic sounds. Also I picked the newer string samples in the Montage, not ones from the Motif series. So it was certainly an apples to apples comparison. There is no access to partials with SN sounds in the Fantom or Fantom-0. I love the Fantoms and the big Fantom is my main keyboard. But it falls behind its competition in the polyphony architecture department.
I just did a polyphony test on mine. With 4 zones active (3 x SN, 1 x Zcore) I was able to hold a sustained note endlessly while I played other notes over it. I'm sure I've noticed cut outs before, but I couldn't replicate it in that manner. The only disappointment in the unit for me is that the pads have no dynamics. I totally didn't expect that. Fortunately I have a little Akai 25 key with 8 performance pads, USB connected to the Fantom 0, and its default behaviour is to have those pads play zone 10 - And the default instrument in zone 10 is usually a standard drum kit. Perfect!
Thank you Darrick! You saved me from possibly making a $1500 mistake. I love the features fo the Fantom but as a live performer. I have no use for any instrument with dropouts. I own new Medeli AKX10 with 256 note polyphony. It sounds great! You can layer sounds to the max. But it's not as user friendly as others. Not really ideal for live performance. Therefore, I've decide to purchase the Yamaha MODX6+. A seasoned Keyboardist in one of the bands that I perform with,owns a MODX6+. It's his favorite. He has tons of keyboards. And the Yam sounds great live. Thanks again! P.S. Do you know if the Akai MDX Key 61 also has 256 Stereo polyphony?
Very objective and valuable information. We have a range of great options and price points, with pros and cons of each. Technology and power available these days isn't limiting as it used to be. Which is why it's frustrating if we dont have more memory, polyphony, multiple ways to achieve the same result, use the hardware the way that works for us, etc. But that is also marketing. These are capable for the price, but I would prefer to spend a little more for some key improvements.
A very suitable and interesting summary. Thank you. It surprises me a little that in other of your videos you say that you prefer the modx synthesizer sounds being the modx filters in my opinion worse, which limits the expressiveness in the Lead sounds etc. All the best
What I prefer in the MODX soundwise is the sampled "real" instruments. For the most part. Saxophones, flutes, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, acoustic pianos, etc in my opinion, sound better on the Yamaha. Now, if we are talking about warm "Juno style" pads, leads, supersaws, etc, I think Roland is going to be extremely hard to beat. The quality of their filters is outstanding. But those same filters often eat into your polyphony. So, when I am playing modern songs from which the producers used Omnisphere to record the parts, the limited polyphony on the Fantom shows up. If I am playing 80's covers which consist of a lot of 3 or 4 note chords with basic synth parts, I get no polyphony issues. But trying to play a "hot" song that came out in 2019. The Fantom often struggles. But overall, they both sound very good.
@@darrickkeels6387 I hear this a lot, that Yamaha does the real instruments the best, while the Roland does filtered "synth" sounds the best; However I've yet to hear a single "synth" sound on the Roland that I can't emulate as good or better on the Yamaha. One of the secret weapons on the MODX+ for warm "Juno style" pads, etc. is layering a 'sample' based sound ('AWM2') with an 'FM-X' based sound, then adding the Symphonic effect to the FM pad which adds 6 layers & widens the stereo on that sound, and keep the sample Part slightly more narrow. It doesn't hurt to also pan the sample sound more left or right as well (just as one example)... And the polyphony on the MODX+ is the same as on the Montage (128+128=256 "stereo" notes). Additionally, you can layer 64 sampled sounds (elements/partials) in just the first 8 Parts/voices alone (same as the Fantom is capable of doing if using all 16 Tones/voices), plus an additional 64 sampled elements in the other 8 voices that can be sequenced, for a total of 128 sampled sounds/layers (elements/partials). Another secret weapon on the MODX+ is it's LFO speed using the new Extended LFO feature, which blows past any other Synth's LFO speed, squelching past the speed of light into the audio range ruclips.net/video/2LlnWu_8bps/видео.html (the sound Dom programmed & plays is a preset on the MODX+ named "The Polysynth MW"). Check out this blend of sample based + DX7 FM based sounds on the Montage (the MODX+ plays this the same as well) ht tps / /soundcloud com / dclowe / montage-justin-bieber-intentions
Decided to watch this movie again. 😀 I’m reconsidering going with I was initially going to do when I got an 88 key keyboard. I got a Casio to travel with but rethinking an all in one 73/76 keyboard that is more portable and downsize. I really love weighted keys as I wanted to feel more realistic piano but I also want more control surface. I was patching things together with different devices but it’s frustrating getting setup at times for live streaming and putting things back together and getting it to work. I may just sell my Juno and get this or Modx or something comparable. Non class compliant audio is a caveat for the Roland but really not getting as much use out of my Juno because of the size and hoops I have to jump through to produce the environment I want. Lots to think about.
I totally agree with the ease of use. I have a Fantom 0 and a MODX. The Fantom 0 is much easier to use and options for live playing. Thank you for the video
I have a FA-07 and it handles the polyphony as it should, all 128. Is it possible the Fantom 07 may be routing through the PAD engine (only yields 8 voices)?
Thanks for this video. Presumably if you record (say) the violins to a pattern, then add a viola pattern, bass etc, the polyphony problem is worked around? I'm about to buy the 08, so just doing a last bit of research (I have played on in the shop, really liked it)
No, that would not resolve the issue, as you would still hit the power limit. However, you could use the sampler and save recordings to the pads. Or simply select strings from the Zencore sound set. You will get much better performance. But to my ears most of those strings sound quite dated. In fact they are because many of them were on the JV1010 that came out in the 90's. But if a person is in a coverband covering older songs, then the older sounds is often what you need. It's an awesome keyboard. And because it is so versatile, there are typically workarounds for any limitations you run into.
Man, to find your video was, for me, a wonderful treasure!!! So thoughtful, so profound with information, i was looking into the fantom-07 for my next gear, but the polyphony issue was a point of attention for me. Just thank you for the great content! You have earned a subscriber and a fan. Hey i have one question, if you not mind. What are your thoughts about the Kurzweil PC4-7? It's been rising in my sight atm, and i coudn't help comparing it with the fantom-07.
Is there oscillator cross modulation on any of the sound engines - the capability to modulate an oscillator by another oscillator? I was looking at the flagship model of the fantom because of its wavetable engine, but perhaps I could get the 0 model if it has other synth features that could make up for its exclusion of the wavetable engine.
I’m about 6 days into my 30-day purchase window. The real-time recording (and quantizing 🙏) and everything about the patterns/sequencing has been amazing for composition. I recognize my favorite parts of it are core to any DAW. But there’s something so un-alienating about having it in a self-contained format What might be a comparable synth(s) to consider as an alternative, in terms of degree of control, with a solid bank of sounds to work with? (Price point isn’t a huge issue, relative to how long I would aim to hold onto it. Fantom replaced a Juno-G I bought in 2007)
Many thanks for the detailed review! One question regarding the polyphony issue - have you tried any of the ezx expansion pianos combined with other sounds and if yes, is there the same problem? Thanks!
I just ordered one, and I’ll have it in a day or so. I keep seeing complaints about polyphony in the 0 series. How serious is this problem? Where does it really show this weakness.., is it single tone play, or when creating large complex layers?
It really depends on your playing style and sound choices. It really shows weakness in the SuperNatural sounds. Don't let this video scare you 😂. You may be absolutely fine.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thx.., it just arrived today. It honestly sounds just like my old Integra 7. Do you know how many of the EZX expansions the keyboard can have loaded at one time? I do miss my Integra actually having all 12 SRX preinstalled.
This is a great video! Thanks so much for posting. (new sub) I'm considering a Fantom 0 purchase, but having trouble deciding what size keybed. Can I use my existing 88 key digital piano with the Fantom 0 as an alternate keyboard? In other words, can I buy the 06, but use my nice weighted keyboard when I need a larger keyboard. I like the price and portability of the smallest Fantom 0, and already have a decent 88 key weighted keyboard. If I could buy a standalone Fantom surface without a keybed, I would probably do that. I want the functionality, but don't really love the action on the 08. I am leaning toward the 07 at this point. Thoughts? I'm an Ableton Live user and love that integration + I love the workflow of this Roland.
Thanks for a very useful, authoritative and knowledgeable review. This keyboard was on my list to try but I think I just crossed it out 😢. I have exactly the same “Church layers” set up on my ancient Fantom G7 and it has exactly the same problem. I can’t believe Roland haven’t moved on. Even my JV-1010 expander does better with polyphony! I’ll try the MODX8+ but I don’t think the UI is as good, nor the tonewheel organ (and only four sliders). I would have the Kurzweil K2700 but was unimpressed with the sound of the tonewheel and rotary effect on that when I tried it (do you have a view on that?).
Hello bro! Currently watching this video, greetings from middle Europe :) Right now I am looking for a new keyboard to our church. Our style is like classic worship ( Hillsong and so on .. ) I was thinking about Nautilus but the price is much higher then Fantom 08. In my "active" musical life I had Nord Stage so I know exactly what it means to have the "best weapon" for live playing. Now its little bit different, after years I have "new" players in church, not so skilled yet and therefore I am looking for keyboard which will help the group ( mostly I am talking about some motion pads in chorus which wil help with some patterns ( loops ) and so on... I saw it in Nautilus videos therefore I was thinking about buy it. Now I see that there is something cheaper on the market, but I am not sure if it is usable for me fot this purpose.
Hi, from France Darrick. Excellent which makes me think about purchasing this Fantom 06.. I have an RD 2000 and a Modx, so I think I can get around this polyphony problem, but do you know if each track of a sequence can transmit on a different Midi channel, therefore to an external module?. I now have a lot of doubts!... Many thanks for what you do. Patrick
Edit: The BEST thing about this Video is everything. I thought I have to go to the store and take 2 days to decide if it will be the fantom or the Nautilus. Nope. Fantom.
Great video! Do you know if it is possible to map the rightmost organ drawbar to one of the knobs , sliders or a expression pedal? That is the only thing keeping me from buying this keyboard.
Brilliant Video.. Thanks Derrick. I actually refunded my original Fantom 06 because of the Polyphony cuttoff, which i thought was a software bug .. I ended up, believe it or not .. getting a Korg Krome Ex in the meantime, which I was shocked that it has such a great keybed and Im enjoying working in the old style "Modes" .. I was considering getting the bigger brother of the 06, the Fantom 6, but I cant believe Roland have the same Polyphony issue in that as well, which would appear to be a "Feature",. not a bug.. I think I may end up getting either a Nautillus or a pre-owned Kronos .. Thanks for saving me £4000 Derrick.. Blessings
Greatly appreciate your input. Anyone that gets upset with facts needs to take a look in the mirror & really question what they're really angry about. It's a great machine, however the polyphony is an issue.
Within the past few weeks I had to do some soul searching. I have a Fantom and have downloaded a lot of the sound packs out of Roland Cloud. My mind is obsessed with bigger and better, but my Fantom is more than sufficient for what I do. Sure, could I level up? Of course I could. At what cost, though? My spending was getting out of control.
Yes but with using the V-Piano with unlimited polyphony, you don't have to worry about the piano cutting out. However, if you are using the same exact sounds on the "regular" Fantom, you will get the same issue.
Thank you for making this video.❤❤ Actually I am looking for a new workstation, Can you suggest me between Modx6+ and Fantom 06 Which one should I get?
Hey Darrick. I watched a good a few of your videos recently. I’m a singer/producer. I’m looking for a board to use at home to integrate with daw to record and for a small amount church services. Compared to the Modx8 in all areas which board would you recommend Fantom 08 or Modx8 I’m torn and stressed lol 😂. Thanks for you help!
I am not sure which DAW you are using or if you have other gear that you use as well. But in general, if you are only using one keyboard, playing it live, and plan to layer sounds, I'd recommend the MODX over the Fantom-0. The polyphony can be a real issue. Of course this is depending on your sound choices and playing style. If you use a lot of VSTs, use Ableton Live in the studio and live, and have quite a bit of gear that you want to control from one source, then I would recommend the Fantom-0.
I currently own a mc 707, and what I love about zen core is the pcm waveforms, does this keyboard also comes with those?. I love how basic they sound but still interesting. Only 64 steps per pattern? not 128?😮
This synth is the most "user friendly" of all in this category. Yamaha had some more realistic sounds, yes, but its not that easy-to-use and I think this is the most important for live performances. When you choose among different synths you need to know what you are about to sacrifice, not all synths are for everything. Thats why we meed more videos like this. Thanks mate!!!
Thanks the update, I bought this when it came out but lost interest because the sampling capabilities felt limited and the real time synth sound building felt too menu divvy. I'll have to sit down with it again and give it another shot.
Hi Darrick,how is the keybed of this one compared to the old Juno DS or the new JUNO D?i am planning to buy the new Juno but the price difference between that and this Fantom 07 is pretty close so i put this in consideration but what i've noticed in this video is,the keys are a bit small?thanks in advance...
From what I've read the new Juno D has the same keybed as the 06 & 07. The Juno D is more of a traditional synth - so it's more focussed on synth controls; whereas the Fantom O is more of a workstation/arranger keyboard. You could be right about the key size - many modern synths have slightly smaller keys.
Darrick, I know there are some differences with the big Fantom in material, space to save extensions, aftertouch, etc. But is there any difference in the quality of sound compared to the flagship? Roland did the same as Yamaha did with Modx and Montage? Thanks
Thanks so much for this! I was literally going to order one of these tomorrow, but the polyphony issue is a dealbreaker for me. I don’t know what I’m going to do now, but I’m not buying a Fantom 0.
completely different keyboards....Nothing beets the feel of the keybed of the Nords and the organs are way better. The Fantom has a billion sounds ...I have a MODX for that. I use the Nord for mostly organ & Pianos. Electro 5d bottom Modx top
Hi, I have a question. This machine is a €1300 one and a 2022 release. So, are the pianos responding to that? Three questions: Damper and key noises? String resonance? Long unlooped natural decay? Roland calls the pianos Supernatural engine. Is it so or just marketing? Can someone who owns this beast make the tests and tell me? Sometimes it is not published but may be there. Many thanks Great review by the way.
Forgive the question from someone completely new to workstations but can the Fantom 0 store and playback uploaded audio tracks? I’m thinking for band practice when we don’t have all instruments present. A related question, does it have a selection of drum / rhythm patterns for playing say rock or blues in a jamming session with others when there is no drummer? If not, can you please recommend the right workstation(s) to look at? Thanks
Hello, I was told that those several sliders and knobs are not totally assigned to control parameters on sounds, and that several of them only use 2 or 3 sliders to control reverb and delay, all other sliders and knobs do nothing unless you assign something to them, is that true ?
Well it really depends on what features you are after. Believe it or not there are somethings an FA does better than a Fantom, like...linear sequencing. Or more editable parameters on the Supernatual Acoustic Pianos
Hi Derrick, if I connect my Fantom-O to my DAW (Ableton-Live), will the DAW’s polyphony over-ride the Fantom’s polyphony? Is that a solution to improve the Fantom-Os polyphony? 🙏 🎉
I really appreciate this review. Im very disappointed by the polyphony though. I have two questions. As a live musician what is the best way for dealing with polyphony on this board? And what would you say is the best keyboard comparable to this one?
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it. If you noticed I didn't have any polyphony issues when I just used one sound. Next, use as many Zencore sounds as you can. The SuperNatural instruments really eat up power, and hence, they use extra polyphony. If I used Zencore violins, violas, cello, and contrabass, I would have gotten a lot further polyphony wise. However, those particular Zencore sounds are old, like 30 years old and they sound like it. In other words they sound extremely artificial by today's standards. The Zencore acoustic pianos are okay but there are only a few "new ones."The rest are old. They were on my Roland XV3080 twenty-three years ago. They work well for playing 80's covers and replicating the sound of the 90's though. Whenever possible for synth stuff use the TVF filter type. The other filters like MG, JP, etc also eat up more polyphony because of the complexity of the filters. If you are only playing a pad by itself you shouldn't have a problem, but if you are layering sounds try using the TVF filter to ensure you don't have any issues. Also when layering check out the partials being used. Often times you can turn off a partial or two in a sound and not really notice a sound difference. This can literally double or triple the amount of available voices. Unfortunately the Supernatual sounds do not allow you access to partials. But ultimately you want to practice with your sounds at home by playing the songs you will play live. Oftentimes you will not run into a problem. There are a lot of users that say they never have a problem. So your mileage may vary. Some other options are the MODX+ by Yamaha or a Krog Nautilus. The polyphony architecture on those keyboards are far superior to the Fantoms. But ultimately I do not recommend this keyboard for people who want to use it alone AND want to layer tons of sounds. If you absolutely love a Fantom more than anything else, I highly recommend pairing it with a laptop. If you become proficient with something like Mainstage the Fantom becomes an absolute monster.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks for such a detailed reply. I'm trying to get I to music production. Literally just about to start learning and testing, so my knowledge is pretty low at this stage. This is part of the of the reason I was drawn to the Fantom 08, but I also need a board for live performance that can deal with easily layering 5-8 sounds. It just sounds like Roland didn't build the Fantom 08 to really perform the way they are advertising it to be able to. I'm a church musician firstly so I need to be able to mix sounds. I'm going to have to look at the MODX+'s pattern/song arranging capabilities and really see how I can work with it. I just wish Roland had put more effort into developing a smart way of managing their polyphony. In fact I don't understand why any board at this point has this issue.
@@darrickkeels6387 In comparison to your suggestions and the Fantom 08 what are your thoughts on Kurzweil K2700 for live performance and for recording?
@@ramoneforbes2392 The Kurzweil K2700 is going to do a much better job in the polyphony department. If you are recording on the keyboard itself and not using a DAW, then the K2700 also wins in that department. Unless you are looking for an Ableton Live style workflow that offers flexibility to repeat a chorus or verse as many times as you want. The K2700 is a traditional linear sequencer. Press play and it goes like an old fashioned tape recorder. You cannot repeat sections or skip to an ending early etc.
@@darrickkeels6387 Sigh. This is such a nerve-racking decision for me. It's a shame that due to poor polyphony architecture I'm being pulled away my true first choice. The Fantom 08 sequencing truly had me enchanted in terms of what I could see doing to enhance adding more backing tracks that I can easily line up or switch back and forth to like verses. I don't think the MODX+ has that either. And you just confirmed Kurzweil doesn't either. I'm going to have to deep dive and see how best I can use one of them until I can afford a second board.
Great video again bro! I for one do NOT like the sound of the Fantom. Love the functionality of it, but I cannot connect with it like I do with my other workstation keyboards.
Darrick, really enjoyed this video and man your playing on the organ is top tier! The polyphony talk towards the end was eye opening, I never thought it was that much of a glaring problem, considering that the FA and the Fantom mostly the same samples and thus algorithms. In hindsight, I think the engineers at Roland knew that this was underpowered, and maybe made the tight integration with Ableton Live (the industry standard for running stuff live) and Logic (because most musicians use Mac and so will probably use Logic). A MacBook and a Roland Fantom is a deadly combination, but the number of musicians comfortable running laptops on stage is only growing. Kudos to Yamaha's engineering team, that MODX handle the polyphony so well and yet, it's supposed to have less polyphony than the bigger brother Montage. I still bemoan the fact that the Roland is not class compliant, so I won't be able to connect my phone to the board and use the sounds on it. I prefer it this way compared to using a laptop because it's easier to setup and breakdown, and for safety, as not so long ago there was a robbery and they took the Roland FA-07 I'd been using for just over a year. Again, great video Darrick! 😄
Indeed, the Fantom-0 (or Fantom) paired with a laptop is a deadly combo. I think Roland is putting their resources into integration. I love my Nord Stage 3 but it doesn't have a built in audio interface, balanced outputs, or audio inputs to run other gear through it. But having a mobile studio that you can take with you for live performance is the modern way of doing things. "Live Recordings" have hours and hours of preproduction work that go into them. Bands are playing to click tracks and want to hire keyboard players that can basically run a studio in a live session. Roland has jumped on the "cloud" game faster than anyone else. They have the infrastructure in place to sustain the company in the future. But I still believe the power to have good polyphony is still very important. The hardware keyboard has to be proficient in "standalone" mode otherwise, younger people will not be able to justify the price tag. Might as well buy a MIDI controller for less than half the price. But, yeah...there is a reason why my Roland Fantom is my main keyboard. Because once paired with a laptop (or other gear) polyphony is no longer an issue.
Hi, I have a question regarding circumventing the polyphony problems. A lot of my songs feature massive string/brass/woodwind sections with 30+ different tones, so is it possible to compose that in my DAW, export it as a WAV file, and just trigger it from the sample pads while I play piano or synth lead over top of it?
Darrick...thank you for exposing this most unfortunate phenomenon in a very detailed and informative way. Great job! You just saved me from experiencing much frustration and buyer's remorse, my friend! I cannot express in words how much I appreciate you taking the time to get this message out to all of us. I "was" going to buy one of these keyboards! Your message is priceless!
I really try to give people the good, bad and the ugly when doing a review. When Roland, Guitar Center, Anderton's, Sweetwater etc do a video showcasing an instrument it's a "commercial." There is nothing wrong with a commercial but you have to know that's what it is. Tutorials done by the companies are to provide support for their customers and entice others to buy as well. Of course any sponsored video is an advertisement as well. But I try to give informative feedback from the perspective of a person that musician that uses the gear on a regular basis.
#me too! Only 1/8'th of my X6 multisamples? WTH? Was on the verge of making a HUGE mistake selling my X6!!!
Damn dude, I just wish the Yamaha's had a better keybed for piano. The new Montage M8X keybed is so light. I'm sure it is great for everything else, but for classical piano playing it sucks. What are the main piano vst libraries that you're using with your Fantom 8? Also, would you mind sharing your velocity curves?
Not sure a Yamaha M8X is a good keyboard for playing classical 'piano' LOL. At least that certainly isn't its target audience. @@MarianoPerez
Is it because of the polyphony issues?
Fantastic review Darrick! I've had the Fantom 08 for almost a year and your review is spot on. Great keyboard that comes up just a little short in a few areas. Actually learned a few tricks from this video! Love hearing honest insights from a real professional keyboardist. Cheers!
Recently picked up a Fantom 06 for my small studio. Came in expecting a review, instead got a whole tutorial. That was a pleasant surprise and I learned a few things I didn’t know yet. Thanks!
This is a fabulously helpful Fantom overview. Thank you. I have had my fantom for more than a year and have had a terrible time trying to understand and work with the sequencer. I really bought it for the sequencing, which may have been a misunderstanding on my part. Your video is helping me to understand the reasons for my issues. I am a very long-time Roland user, and the different way the entire GUI works is so different from every other Roland keyboard I have ever used. The patches are now tones, which fit into scenes. This was completely new terminology, different than any other terminology for 40 years before.
Thank you for watching!
@@darrickkeels6387 Well, thank YOU for being awesome!
I've had mine for about the same time. I also find it pretty complex to get into! This video was great - A whole bunch of front panel buttons I had no idea of.
@@GaryBeilby I think part of the problem is the manual isn't written in a way that explains very well. And I have watched every Ed video, and he doesn't explain things very well. It's a shame, bc once you learn the keyboard it's freaking fantastic, but the learning curve is straight up.
Thank you so much again, Darrick, for this great review. Thankfully I have already got a MODX7+ which I could use together with my iOS instruments to overcome the polyphony issues.. Great to see the integration with green/red lights too..❤
You did a great job in your presentation! It was clear and concise and therefore understandable! Thanks
Ive had the 07 for 6 months now and love it.
Its so intuitive and a lot of the sounds are great but yes, the polyphony is an issue.
Excellent and Detailed Review - Thank You for publishing.
Thx Darrick as everyone else you sorted me out with this keyboard
Thank you for watching. I appreciate it!
Upon receiving the Fantom 08, I played the first patch 'Homecoming' and noticed, immediately, notes cutting out. I think videos like this are important to try and clarify what type of musician this board is best suited to. Is the future a controller and laptop for everyone? As in, manufacturers may move away from making self-contained stage keyboards. Thanks for the video.
I have taken a LOT of criticism for bringing up the polyphony architecture of the Fantom Series
That's sad because if consumers don't know these like these there can be a lot of buyer's remorse. I'm really on the fence as I was looking for a main keyboard and now I don't know what I can get that's very close to this and yet handles polyphony well.
Thanks greatinfo.
You would never think it would be so weak
I've had my Fantom 07 for about a year now and I have to agree with everything I've seen you say so far. It's been a good sounding, easy to use, yet deep instrument. Very capable. I wish it had more room for user multisamples but I did dump Supernatural Piano #2, which freed up space for about 5 of the SRX based sample expansions, which lessened the need for extra instrument samples.
I don't even layer, and run into polyphony issues in the flagship, especially with the n/zyme model expansion. Some people say that I am doing too much, and that my expectations of a workstation is too high, but running into these issues on very basic patches is a factor. I couldn't imagine running into these problems in a live setting, but after talking to a few people, realize that it is a common occurrence. People are upset, and rightfully so. With the polyphony issues, it makes producing within the Fantom a chore.
I only have one keyboard...and it is a problem. Thank God it doesn't leave the studio, but with that, functions more as a MIDI controller than anything else. Kind of bogus for the price tag. I was wondering if these polyphony issues trickled down to the 0 Series, so thank you for answering that.
I really appreciate all of your content on the subject. Great work!
Yeah, the polyphony limitations of this keyboard (and the Fantom) can be a real issue. And I have found the overall response of the Roland community to be dismissive. I've heard the kind of music you produce and the Fantom(s) just aren't up to the task. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a few niche people running into the issue. And yes, I agree with you, buying it as to use as only a MIDI controller is not cost effective. Thanks for watching. Always appreciate you stopping by the channel
With said limitations, I can't reasonably even see the point of owning one. Sure, to some it's pocket change and having a controller/hub seems to be the name of the game. But still. Standards are standards. It's an expense. That cannot adequately do better than a tablet in a key area. Thats insane. I don't recall having issues with Kronos. I've seen Darrick's comparison with other devices. And as mentioned elsewhere never got it to choke like this on the FA. So what gives. 4 grand for something that struggles with a Piano? Might as well just combo the Yamaha CP with a Modx and avoid it all together.
Great video and playing, particularly your organ work!
I am a Kronos user, but I remember being tempted by the Fantom and especially the Fantom 0 series because some things maybe seemed more “modern.” The more I learn about them, though, it just feels like compromises left and right compared to the Kronos. Yes, the complexity is higher, but it’s almost always possible to achieve what you want on Kronos with amazing polyphony. Hard to believe Korg nailed it so well over a decade ago.
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it!
Thank you all the details on this. Much appreciated!
Wow nice review, thanks! Polyphony is indeed a deal breaker.
I tried your exact setup with the Fantom 08 and I did not run into the problem as quick as you did.
6 tones, SN, violins, celli, violas, bass.
They must have done something about it? (My Fantom 08 is only 3 months old now)
This is a great overview of this board. I definitely do feel this is the right board for the very niche use case (marching band, potential indoor winter percussion) a group I work with is looking for. It fits out prety much everything we need it to do.
I personally haven't found the polyphony issue that limiting, especially since you can set where in the sound sequence the part is cut if polyphony runs out(zone voice reserve to limit or not).. also you can limit unison.. unison full is 8 voice layers max per Tone i believe, and tones only have 4 partials, the others are used by added effects to the tone, [TIPS- if using amplitude envelope, having decay, or realease Off/On, either or still same loss, it will continue to use more voices, so u may be using voices that you have no use for. U can also change/blend tones in Wave Number in OSC prm menu (L/R Wave Number channels each use up a voice.]
Also, many tones have partials (each partial uses 1 voice) that can be turned off and make little to no difference in the tone, such as a very quick light click noise or something similar. However, SuperNATURAL acoustic instruments engine u can't turn partials off on fantom-0, fantom u can i believe.
I have another video about the "Big" Fantom: ruclips.net/video/M74BhNKkXnE/видео.html
In this video, I go over some workarounds that can be used if a person is running into an issue. Many people never run into a polyphony issue, mainly due to playing style. When I am playing 80's covers with my band, I never run into an issue. Lots of Pop, 60's to 80's Rock, and I never have an issue. Furthermore, my band has two keyboard players and a horn section. So many times, my job in the band is very specific and doesn't require layers, especially because I always have two keyboards. But when I play modern Gospel and Contemporary Christian music, I have issues. Most of the music I play was written less than 10 years ago in those genres. People are using Omnisphere, Keyscapes, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, and other VSTs on the original albums. My job is to replicate that sound on a weekly basis. The Fantoms really struggle. I am aware of workarounds as my livelihood depends on my musicianship. My point is, however, such painstaking workarounds simply aren't necessary on the competition. As demonstrated here when setting up 6 solo string instruments. The Montage had no problems. The Fantom-0 struggled. I could have used the older string sounds that were found in the XV3080 sound module from 23 years ago, but those old samples are clearly inferior to the new SN Acoustic sounds. Also I picked the newer string samples in the Montage, not ones from the Motif series. So it was certainly an apples to apples comparison. There is no access to partials with SN sounds in the Fantom or Fantom-0. I love the Fantoms and the big Fantom is my main keyboard. But it falls behind its competition in the polyphony architecture department.
I just did a polyphony test on mine. With 4 zones active (3 x SN, 1 x Zcore) I was able to hold a sustained note endlessly while I played other notes over it. I'm sure I've noticed cut outs before, but I couldn't replicate it in that manner.
The only disappointment in the unit for me is that the pads have no dynamics. I totally didn't expect that. Fortunately I have a little Akai 25 key with 8 performance pads, USB connected to the Fantom 0, and its default behaviour is to have those pads play zone 10 - And the default instrument in zone 10 is usually a standard drum kit. Perfect!
Thank you for sharing this and how it cuts out!! You saved me the hassle and purchase brother. Subscribed, God bless!!
Well done. Easy to understand and concise! Thank you
Great video. Thanks very much for helping with my purchase decision. Very thorough.
Thank you Darrick! You saved me from possibly making a $1500 mistake. I love the features fo the Fantom but as a live performer. I have no use for any instrument with dropouts. I own new Medeli AKX10 with 256 note polyphony. It sounds great! You can layer sounds to the max. But it's not as user friendly as others. Not really ideal for live performance. Therefore, I've decide to purchase the Yamaha MODX6+.
A seasoned Keyboardist in one of the bands that I perform with,owns a MODX6+. It's his favorite. He has tons of keyboards. And the Yam sounds great live. Thanks again!
P.S. Do you know if the Akai MDX Key 61 also has 256 Stereo polyphony?
you know your stuff, great video !
Excellent review, as ever
Best review of this on RUclips. Good work.
Thank you!
So if you only could have one keyboard which one would it be?
The Roland Fantom.
Polyphony fixed !! Latest firmware update on the O series at least 😊😊😊
Isn't that for the big fantom 6-7-8?
is it really? Because that problem is keeping me from buying this instrument.
@@omedome2787me too
I own the 08 for 3 months now, I tried what Darrick did and it did NOT cut out, only after 12 or 13 notes pressed.@@omedome2787
@@omedome2787 This cannot be fixed by software. Version 0 has half the processor power of the flagship.
This was excellent once again.
Very objective and valuable information. We have a range of great options and price points, with pros and cons of each. Technology and power available these days isn't limiting as it used to be. Which is why it's frustrating if we dont have more memory, polyphony, multiple ways to achieve the same result, use the hardware the way that works for us, etc. But that is also marketing. These are capable for the price, but I would prefer to spend a little more for some key improvements.
Thanks man! Straight to the point,
A very suitable and interesting summary. Thank you. It surprises me a little that in other of your videos you say that you prefer the modx synthesizer sounds being the modx filters in my opinion worse, which limits the expressiveness in the Lead sounds etc. All the best
What I prefer in the MODX soundwise is the sampled "real" instruments. For the most part. Saxophones, flutes, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, acoustic pianos, etc in my opinion, sound better on the Yamaha. Now, if we are talking about warm "Juno style" pads, leads, supersaws, etc, I think Roland is going to be extremely hard to beat. The quality of their filters is outstanding. But those same filters often eat into your polyphony. So, when I am playing modern songs from which the producers used Omnisphere to record the parts, the limited polyphony on the Fantom shows up. If I am playing 80's covers which consist of a lot of 3 or 4 note chords with basic synth parts, I get no polyphony issues. But trying to play a "hot" song that came out in 2019. The Fantom often struggles. But overall, they both sound very good.
@@darrickkeels6387 I hear this a lot, that Yamaha does the real instruments the best, while the Roland does filtered "synth" sounds the best; However I've yet to hear a single "synth" sound on the Roland that I can't emulate as good or better on the Yamaha. One of the secret weapons on the MODX+ for warm "Juno style" pads, etc. is layering a 'sample' based sound ('AWM2') with an 'FM-X' based sound, then adding the Symphonic effect to the FM pad which adds 6 layers & widens the stereo on that sound, and keep the sample Part slightly more narrow. It doesn't hurt to also pan the sample sound more left or right as well (just as one example)...
And the polyphony on the MODX+ is the same as on the Montage (128+128=256 "stereo" notes). Additionally, you can layer 64 sampled sounds (elements/partials) in just the first 8 Parts/voices alone (same as the Fantom is capable of doing if using all 16 Tones/voices), plus an additional 64 sampled elements in the other 8 voices that can be sequenced, for a total of 128 sampled sounds/layers (elements/partials).
Another secret weapon on the MODX+ is it's LFO speed using the new Extended LFO feature, which blows past any other Synth's LFO speed, squelching past the speed of light into the audio range ruclips.net/video/2LlnWu_8bps/видео.html (the sound Dom programmed & plays is a preset on the MODX+ named "The Polysynth MW"). Check out this blend of sample based + DX7 FM based sounds on the Montage (the MODX+ plays this the same as well)
ht tps / /soundcloud com / dclowe / montage-justin-bieber-intentions
Decided to watch this movie again. 😀 I’m reconsidering going with I was initially going to do when I got an 88 key keyboard. I got a Casio to travel with but rethinking an all in one 73/76 keyboard that is more portable and downsize. I really love weighted keys as I wanted to feel more realistic piano but I also want more control surface. I was patching things together with different devices but it’s frustrating getting setup at times for live streaming and putting things back together and getting it to work. I may just sell my Juno and get this or Modx or something comparable. Non class compliant audio is a caveat for the Roland but really not getting as much use out of my Juno because of the size and hoops I have to jump through to produce the environment I want. Lots to think about.
I totally agree with the ease of use. I have a Fantom 0 and a MODX. The Fantom 0 is much easier to use and options for live playing. Thank you for the video
Excellent video. Thank you
Thank you for watching
I like the set up of the Roland 0 workstation, how do you think the sounds in the Nord stage 4 which isn’t a workstation compare.
I have a FA-07 and it handles the polyphony as it should, all 128. Is it possible the Fantom 07 may be routing through the PAD engine (only yields 8 voices)?
But why did Roland feel the need to reduce the screen size? How much trouble would it have been to keep the same screen as the big Fantom?
Thanks for this video. Presumably if you record (say) the violins to a pattern, then add a viola pattern, bass etc, the polyphony problem is worked around? I'm about to buy the 08, so just doing a last bit of research (I have played on in the shop, really liked it)
No, that would not resolve the issue, as you would still hit the power limit. However, you could use the sampler and save recordings to the pads. Or simply select strings from the Zencore sound set. You will get much better performance. But to my ears most of those strings sound quite dated. In fact they are because many of them were on the JV1010 that came out in the 90's. But if a person is in a coverband covering older songs, then the older sounds is often what you need. It's an awesome keyboard. And because it is so versatile, there are typically workarounds for any limitations you run into.
@@darrickkeels6387 thank you for confirming. It will certainly be a step up from my Juno Gi 😊
Man, to find your video was, for me, a wonderful treasure!!! So thoughtful, so profound with information, i was looking into the fantom-07 for my next gear, but the polyphony issue was a point of attention for me.
Just thank you for the great content! You have earned a subscriber and a fan.
Hey i have one question, if you not mind. What are your thoughts about the Kurzweil PC4-7? It's been rising in my sight atm, and i coudn't help comparing it with the fantom-07.
I am looking for a lightweight workstation with 76 or 73 keys to be my main keyboard.
Hi darrick. Thanks for the very informative video.
What dou think of the Roland piano sounds, compared with the Yamaha sounds?
Is there oscillator cross modulation on any of the sound engines - the capability to modulate an oscillator by another oscillator? I was looking at the flagship model of the fantom because of its wavetable engine, but perhaps I could get the 0 model if it has other synth features that could make up for its exclusion of the wavetable engine.
I don't believe you can. If it had FM synthesis that would be a different story.
I believe the Zencore engine has pulse width modulation and oscillator sync.
I’m about 6 days into my 30-day purchase window.
The real-time recording (and quantizing 🙏) and everything about the patterns/sequencing has been amazing for composition.
I recognize my favorite parts of it are core to any DAW.
But there’s something so un-alienating about having it in a self-contained format
What might be a comparable synth(s) to consider as an alternative, in terms of degree of control, with a solid bank of sounds to work with?
(Price point isn’t a huge issue, relative to how long I would aim to hold onto it. Fantom replaced a Juno-G I bought in 2007)
(The polyphony issues are also definitely hitting as significant cause for concern)
Are you running into any notes dropping out?
I would have to say the Yamaha Montage is worth looking in to.
Does the Fantom 0 series have any TPU rubber coating on it? The kind that turns rubbery and sticky after awhile?
No it doesn't - thank goodness !
Many thanks for the detailed review! One question regarding the polyphony issue - have you tried any of the ezx expansion pianos combined with other sounds and if yes, is there the same problem? Thanks!
I just ordered one, and I’ll have it in a day or so. I keep seeing complaints about polyphony in the 0 series. How serious is this problem? Where does it really show this weakness.., is it single tone play, or when creating large complex layers?
It really depends on your playing style and sound choices. It really shows weakness in the SuperNatural sounds. Don't let this video scare you 😂. You may be absolutely fine.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thx.., it just arrived today. It honestly sounds just like my old Integra 7. Do you know how many of the EZX expansions the keyboard can have loaded at one time? I do miss my Integra actually having all 12 SRX preinstalled.
This is a great video! Thanks so much for posting. (new sub) I'm considering a Fantom 0 purchase, but having trouble deciding what size keybed. Can I use my existing 88 key digital piano with the Fantom 0 as an alternate keyboard? In other words, can I buy the 06, but use my nice weighted keyboard when I need a larger keyboard. I like the price and portability of the smallest Fantom 0, and already have a decent 88 key weighted keyboard. If I could buy a standalone Fantom surface without a keybed, I would probably do that. I want the functionality, but don't really love the action on the 08. I am leaning toward the 07 at this point. Thoughts? I'm an Ableton Live user and love that integration + I love the workflow of this Roland.
I think u can
You really helped me.
I've a MODX and was thinking of swapping to this but the polyphony has stopped me.
amazing video
Thanks for a very useful, authoritative and knowledgeable review. This keyboard was on my list to try but I think I just crossed it out 😢. I have exactly the same “Church layers” set up on my ancient Fantom G7 and it has exactly the same problem. I can’t believe Roland haven’t moved on. Even my JV-1010 expander does better with polyphony! I’ll try the MODX8+ but I don’t think the UI is as good, nor the tonewheel organ (and only four sliders). I would have the Kurzweil K2700 but was unimpressed with the sound of the tonewheel and rotary effect on that when I tried it (do you have a view on that?).
Hello bro! Currently watching this video, greetings from middle Europe :) Right now I am looking for a new keyboard to our church. Our style is like classic worship ( Hillsong and so on .. ) I was thinking about Nautilus but the price is much higher then Fantom 08. In my "active" musical life I had Nord Stage so I know exactly what it means to have the "best weapon" for live playing. Now its little bit different, after years I have "new" players in church, not so skilled yet and therefore I am looking for keyboard which will help the group ( mostly I am talking about some motion pads in chorus which wil help with some patterns ( loops ) and so on... I saw it in Nautilus videos therefore I was thinking about buy it. Now I see that there is something cheaper on the market, but I am not sure if it is usable for me fot this purpose.
Any polyphony comparison with Modx8+?
Yes, I have a Fantom 07 synth and this is good to controlling, making a beat and singing with vocoder by using microphone.
The samples that go on the Roland FA06 pads are stored on an SD Card...is the Fantom 06/07 the same in that reguard?
Hi, from France Darrick.
Excellent which makes me think about purchasing this Fantom 06..
I have an RD 2000 and a Modx, so I think I can get around this polyphony problem, but do you know if each track of a sequence can transmit on a different Midi channel, therefore to an external module?.
I now have a lot of doubts!...
Many thanks for what you do.
Patrick
Yes it can🙂
@@darrickkeels6387 Big Thank Darrek for your feedback.
Edit: The BEST thing about this Video is everything. I thought I have to go to the store and take 2 days to decide if it will be the fantom or the Nautilus. Nope. Fantom.
I"m having that dilemma now and I have to decide, are you happy with your decision?
Great video! Do you know if it is possible to map the rightmost organ drawbar to one of the knobs , sliders or a expression pedal? That is the only thing keeping me from buying this keyboard.
Brilliant Video.. Thanks Derrick. I actually refunded my original Fantom 06 because of the Polyphony cuttoff, which i thought was a software bug .. I ended up, believe it or not .. getting a Korg Krome Ex in the meantime, which I was shocked that it has such a great keybed and Im enjoying working in the old style "Modes" .. I was considering getting the bigger brother of the 06, the Fantom 6, but I cant believe Roland have the same Polyphony issue in that as well, which would appear to be a "Feature",. not a bug.. I think I may end up getting either a Nautillus or a pre-owned Kronos .. Thanks for saving me £4000 Derrick.. Blessings
Greatly appreciate your input. Anyone that gets upset with facts needs to take a look in the mirror & really question what they're really angry about. It's a great machine, however the polyphony is an issue.
Excellent video. The polyphony is a huge issue for me. I love the keyboard 🎹 and its features but I love to play and I can’t have my notes cutting out
Within the past few weeks I had to do some soul searching. I have a Fantom and have downloaded a lot of the sound packs out of Roland Cloud. My mind is obsessed with bigger and better, but my Fantom is more than sufficient for what I do. Sure, could I level up? Of course I could. At what cost, though? My spending was getting out of control.
Keep using what works for you.
The the regular fantom have the same polyphony issues ?
Yes but with using the V-Piano with unlimited polyphony, you don't have to worry about the piano cutting out. However, if you are using the same exact sounds on the "regular" Fantom, you will get the same issue.
Thank you for making this video.❤❤
Actually I am looking for a new workstation,
Can you suggest me between Modx6+ and Fantom 06
Which one should I get?
It really depends on what you want your keyboard to do.
Thanks Darrick
Do a review on the juno DS 88
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
For the home studio workstation would you the M8 or the Fantom?
Me personally, the Fantom.
Hey Darrick. I watched a good a few of your videos recently. I’m a singer/producer. I’m looking for a board to use at home to integrate with daw to record and for a small amount church services. Compared to the Modx8 in all areas which board would you recommend Fantom 08 or Modx8 I’m torn and stressed lol 😂. Thanks for you help!
I am not sure which DAW you are using or if you have other gear that you use as well. But in general, if you are only using one keyboard, playing it live, and plan to layer sounds, I'd recommend the MODX over the Fantom-0. The polyphony can be a real issue. Of course this is depending on your sound choices and playing style. If you use a lot of VSTs, use Ableton Live in the studio and live, and have quite a bit of gear that you want to control from one source, then I would recommend the Fantom-0.
In October 2024 was this polyphony problem solved?!
I currently own a mc 707, and what I love about zen core is the pcm waveforms, does this keyboard also comes with those?. I love how basic they sound but still interesting. Only 64 steps per pattern? not 128?😮
Hi. This or Juno-X??
Does that have the New German Steinway piano on it?
So what other keyboard is an alternative that handles polyphony well?
I tried to add decay on 2nd layer sound on the flag-ship Fantom 7!.. I was not able.. I will wait for the Montage., I had to return the Roland 7.
This synth is the most "user friendly" of all in this category.
Yamaha had some more realistic sounds, yes, but its not that easy-to-use and I think this is the most important for live performances.
When you choose among different synths you need to know what you are about to sacrifice, not all synths are for everything.
Thats why we meed more videos like this.
Thanks mate!!!
Thanks the update, I bought this when it came out but lost interest because the sampling capabilities felt limited and the real time synth sound building felt too menu divvy. I'll have to sit down with it again and give it another shot.
Yup. Give it another shot.
Hi Darrick,how is the keybed of this one compared to the old Juno DS or the new JUNO D?i am planning to buy the new Juno but the price difference between that and this Fantom 07 is pretty close so i put this in consideration but what i've noticed in this video is,the keys are a bit small?thanks in advance...
From what I've read the new Juno D has the same keybed as the 06 & 07. The Juno D is more of a traditional synth - so it's more focussed on synth controls; whereas the Fantom O is more of a workstation/arranger keyboard. You could be right about the key size - many modern synths have slightly smaller keys.
Darrick, I know there are some differences with the big Fantom in material, space to save extensions, aftertouch, etc. But is there any difference in the quality of sound compared to the flagship? Roland did the same as Yamaha did with Modx and Montage? Thanks
No there isn't.
@@darrickkeels6387 Awesome Darrick, Thank you
Thanks so much for this! I was literally going to order one of these tomorrow, but the polyphony issue is a dealbreaker for me. I don’t know what I’m going to do now, but I’m not buying a Fantom 0.
would you recommend a nord electo 6d over this?
completely different keyboards....Nothing beets the feel of the keybed of the Nords and the organs are way better. The Fantom has a billion sounds ...I have a MODX for that. I use the Nord for mostly organ & Pianos. Electro 5d bottom Modx top
Than you
Do you know if the polyphony issue on the Fantom 0 is handled any better on the Yamaha MODX+, or do you run into the same problem?
Great review from someone who can actually play the thang as well
Hi,
I have a question. This machine is a €1300 one and a 2022 release. So, are the pianos responding to that? Three questions: Damper and key noises? String resonance? Long unlooped natural decay?
Roland calls the pianos Supernatural engine. Is it so or just marketing?
Can someone who owns this beast make the tests and tell me? Sometimes it is not published but may be there.
Many thanks
Great review by the way.
What about the Roland FA ? Same. problem ? I don't think so.... And you ?
No. My Roland FA does not have the same issues.
When you midi Ed the montage where each on the channels controlled separately
Yes. I used MIDI Channels 1-6.
For the problems in the Polyphony section, it's most evident at 41:12. Jeeeeez that's terrible, how that first chord cuts out.
Forgive the question from someone completely new to workstations but can the Fantom 0 store and playback uploaded audio tracks? I’m thinking for band practice when we don’t have all instruments present. A related question, does it have a selection of drum / rhythm patterns for playing say rock or blues in a jamming session with others when there is no drummer? If not, can you please recommend the right workstation(s) to look at?
Thanks
Yes..the pads can be loaded with any sample one hit or full backing tracks as you wish.
Does polyphony cut out while recording into a seq? For examples 9 tracks of audio where 9 tracks use about 12 notes per ?
Great review Darricky thanks. Been using the 07 for more than a year and a I love it, but polyphony is really an issue.
Totally agree
Hello, I was told that those several sliders and knobs are not totally assigned to control parameters on sounds, and that several of them only use 2 or 3 sliders to control reverb and delay, all other sliders and knobs do nothing unless you assign something to them, is that true ?
How does this compare with the Roland FA series? If you can get the Fantom 0 used at the same price as the same size FA, is the Fantom 0 a no brainer?
Well it really depends on what features you are after. Believe it or not there are somethings an FA does better than a Fantom, like...linear sequencing. Or more editable parameters on the Supernatual Acoustic Pianos
Hi Derrick, if I connect my Fantom-O to my DAW (Ableton-Live), will the DAW’s polyphony over-ride the Fantom’s polyphony? Is that a solution to improve the Fantom-Os polyphony? 🙏 🎉
I really appreciate this review. Im very disappointed by the polyphony though. I have two questions. As a live musician what is the best way for dealing with polyphony on this board? And what would you say is the best keyboard comparable to this one?
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it. If you noticed I didn't have any polyphony issues when I just used one sound. Next, use as many Zencore sounds as you can. The SuperNatural instruments really eat up power, and hence, they use extra polyphony. If I used Zencore violins, violas, cello, and contrabass, I would have gotten a lot further polyphony wise. However, those particular Zencore sounds are old, like 30 years old and they sound like it. In other words they sound extremely artificial by today's standards. The Zencore acoustic pianos are okay but there are only a few "new ones."The rest are old. They were on my Roland XV3080 twenty-three years ago. They work well for playing 80's covers and replicating the sound of the 90's though. Whenever possible for synth stuff use the TVF filter type. The other filters like MG, JP, etc also eat up more polyphony because of the complexity of the filters. If you are only playing a pad by itself you shouldn't have a problem, but if you are layering sounds try using the TVF filter to ensure you don't have any issues. Also when layering check out the partials being used. Often times you can turn off a partial or two in a sound and not really notice a sound difference. This can literally double or triple the amount of available voices. Unfortunately the Supernatual sounds do not allow you access to partials. But ultimately you want to practice with your sounds at home by playing the songs you will play live. Oftentimes you will not run into a problem. There are a lot of users that say they never have a problem. So your mileage may vary. Some other options are the MODX+ by Yamaha or a Krog Nautilus. The polyphony architecture on those keyboards are far superior to the Fantoms. But ultimately I do not recommend this keyboard for people who want to use it alone AND want to layer tons of sounds. If you absolutely love a Fantom more than anything else, I highly recommend pairing it with a laptop. If you become proficient with something like Mainstage the Fantom becomes an absolute monster.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks for such a detailed reply. I'm trying to get I to music production. Literally just about to start learning and testing, so my knowledge is pretty low at this stage. This is part of the of the reason I was drawn to the Fantom 08, but I also need a board for live performance that can deal with easily layering 5-8 sounds. It just sounds like Roland didn't build the Fantom 08 to really perform the way they are advertising it to be able to. I'm a church musician firstly so I need to be able to mix sounds. I'm going to have to look at the MODX+'s pattern/song arranging capabilities and really see how I can work with it. I just wish Roland had put more effort into developing a smart way of managing their polyphony. In fact I don't understand why any board at this point has this issue.
@@darrickkeels6387 In comparison to your suggestions and the Fantom 08 what are your thoughts on Kurzweil K2700 for live performance and for recording?
@@ramoneforbes2392 The Kurzweil K2700 is going to do a much better job in the polyphony department. If you are recording on the keyboard itself and not using a DAW, then the K2700 also wins in that department. Unless you are looking for an Ableton Live style workflow that offers flexibility to repeat a chorus or verse as many times as you want. The K2700 is a traditional linear sequencer. Press play and it goes like an old fashioned tape recorder. You cannot repeat sections or skip to an ending early etc.
@@darrickkeels6387 Sigh. This is such a nerve-racking decision for me. It's a shame that due to poor polyphony architecture I'm being pulled away my true first choice. The Fantom 08 sequencing truly had me enchanted in terms of what I could see doing to enhance adding more backing tracks that I can easily line up or switch back and forth to like verses. I don't think the MODX+ has that either. And you just confirmed Kurzweil doesn't either. I'm going to have to deep dive and see how best I can use one of them until I can afford a second board.
Great video again bro! I for one do NOT like the sound of the Fantom. Love the functionality of it, but I cannot connect with it like I do with my other workstation keyboards.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I agree, if you do not like the sounds it's definitely not worth buying.
I'm not sure, but doesn't voice-reserve help with voice stealing?
Darrick, really enjoyed this video and man your playing on the organ is top tier!
The polyphony talk towards the end was eye opening, I never thought it was that much of a glaring problem, considering that the FA and the Fantom mostly the same samples and thus algorithms.
In hindsight, I think the engineers at Roland knew that this was underpowered, and maybe made the tight integration with Ableton Live (the industry standard for running stuff live) and Logic (because most musicians use Mac and so will probably use Logic). A MacBook and a Roland Fantom is a deadly combination, but the number of musicians comfortable running laptops on stage is only growing. Kudos to Yamaha's engineering team, that MODX handle the polyphony so well and yet, it's supposed to have less polyphony than the bigger brother Montage.
I still bemoan the fact that the Roland is not class compliant, so I won't be able to connect my phone to the board and use the sounds on it. I prefer it this way compared to using a laptop because it's easier to setup and breakdown, and for safety, as not so long ago there was a robbery and they took the Roland FA-07 I'd been using for just over a year.
Again, great video Darrick! 😄
Indeed, the Fantom-0 (or Fantom) paired with a laptop is a deadly combo. I think Roland is putting their resources into integration. I love my Nord Stage 3 but it doesn't have a built in audio interface, balanced outputs, or audio inputs to run other gear through it. But having a mobile studio that you can take with you for live performance is the modern way of doing things. "Live Recordings" have hours and hours of preproduction work that go into them. Bands are playing to click tracks and want to hire keyboard players that can basically run a studio in a live session. Roland has jumped on the "cloud" game faster than anyone else. They have the infrastructure in place to sustain the company in the future. But I still believe the power to have good polyphony is still very important. The hardware keyboard has to be proficient in "standalone" mode otherwise, younger people will not be able to justify the price tag. Might as well buy a MIDI controller for less than half the price. But, yeah...there is a reason why my Roland Fantom is my main keyboard. Because once paired with a laptop (or other gear) polyphony is no longer an issue.
Wow, thank you so much for this comment.. did not know, that Roland is not class compliant (iOS connectivity).. this is show killer for me..
Thank you bro.... 👍 God bless you Darrick. 🕊️🌈😉
Hi, I have a question regarding circumventing the polyphony problems. A lot of my songs feature massive string/brass/woodwind sections with 30+ different tones, so is it possible to compose that in my DAW, export it as a WAV file, and just trigger it from the sample pads while I play piano or synth lead over top of it?
Yup that is absolutely doable on the Fantom-0.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks! I was deciding between the Fantom 08 or the Korg Nautilus but I like the UI and controls of the Fantom a lot more.
I have the same problem with my Jupiter 80. It's funny because on my old Juno Stage, XP 80 i don't have polyphony problems
Polyphony problems on the Jupiter 80 ??? That joint has 256 polyphonic voices !