The Roland Fantom-0 vs the Roland Fantom: What's the Difference?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Roland released a new Fantom in their Fantom line of keyboards. They call it the Fantom-0 series of keyboards. This is the "baby brother" of the "big" Roland Fantom. In this video I go over the differences between the Fantom 0 and the Fantom that was released in 2019. Is the Fantom-0 a good buy? Or do you lose too many features? Check out this video to decide. Roland Fantom 0 versus Roland Fantom
Derrick I'm extremely impressed by your extensive knowledge of these instruments. This is a great comparison. Keep up the great work buddy.
Thank you for watching!
Darrick has an extensive knowledge of synths, and excellent reviews. Though I prefer my MODX over the Fantom 0, his comments are to be take seriously. Great reviews. In the case of the MODX vs the Fantom 0, I brought up another point a view about comparing them, and and have specific uses where I believe the MODX benefits me more (playing live in 80s/70s rock tribute bands). Music has a wide of area with many styles and many different sounds and features needed depending on what your playing.
@@n8goulet Plus the Superknob tech is superior for real time play, Only Kronos Karma competes.
Thanks for the great video Darrick. Planning to buy a keyboard this summer and trying to decide between the Fantom and Fantom-0 has been a tough decision. Great to see a breakdown that shows all the actual differences.
I probably will get the Fantom 8. Buy-once-cry-once and the myriad small differences add up to justify the added premium.
I bought a fantom 7 (big boy) 3 months before the 0-Series came out. You made me feel better about my choice. Thanks mate, jam on!
Yeah the Fantom is definitely the flagship.
Your review has helped me decide. I'm going with the Fantom 6. Might as well drop the change once and for all and not regret later.
This was a much awaited and needed detailed comparison between the Fantom and Fantom O. Your sterling work is much appreciated.
Thank you so much! I appreciate it!
I appreciate this video, no body yet has done Fantom comparison as this, thank you sir! This was a tremendous help on my decision making.
Thank you for watching!
Best explanation of the differences ever! You are truly gifted with both your understanding and knowledge of these things, and your ability to explain it all. Thanks so much for this.
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it.
I knew it! I was waiting on you to do a video about the Fantom-0 series.
😂😂
I've been waiting for this kind of video. Thanks! Fantom O 08 showing up tomorrow and I'm learning as much as I can.
Great video. BTW 256 MB is 1/8th of 2GB (2048 MB), not 1/4th. So Fantom actually has 8 times more multi-sample/expansion memory. I am surprised to see that none has Mic/Hi-z guitar input option switch like the FA series!
Yeah I realized I said 1/4th after the video was already recorded. But I just left it because I got the actual amount of room correct. 256mb.
Another great review Darrick.
Although I think the Fantom 0 is a great keyboard, and a great value, I prefer the MODX.
Here's why...
First and foremost, I greatly value that it can import so many different file formats and is widely a 3rd party platform of choice by sound developers. This means I don't have to create many of the sounds I need from scratch. The MODX can import Montage sounds (current technology), the MOTIF series (one of the most popular series over the past 20 years) and the DX-7 series. My bands cover famous music, so I need famous sounds. The MODX/Montage are probably the easiest keyboards to actually find the kind of sounds my bands need. As many have said, Roland doesn't seem to have the 3rd party software support to the level that Yamaha & Korg do. So most of your sounds will probably come from Roland.
The memory differences for sampled instruments between the MODX & the Fantom 0 are huge! While the Fantom 0 does provide more real-time controls and some other nice features, adding more memory for sampled instruments is one of the most costly things for them to have done at manufacturing costs, buying memory as they don't make it themselves. The kind of memory needed for sampled instruments is very expensive. You get 4 times as much on the MODX. Is this important? Yes! Depends on what you want to use the keyboard for of course. If you want to do much with sampled instruments sounds, it's very important. The regular Fantom actually has 2 gigs (8 times as much as the Fantom 0) and the MODX has 1 gig. The Fantom 0 has a mere 256 megs (1/4 gig). That is a huge limitation. I actually find only having 1 gig on the MODX to be it's single biggest limitation over the Montage which as 1.7. Some sound collections alone take up a good chunk of memory, and I've avoided using them for that reason. Sampled memory is not only useful for acoustic instruments, but sometimes even to sample synthesized sounds used in 3rd party sound collections. If it is hard to get by with just 1 gig of memory on the MODX, how can people be expected to get by with 1/4 that on the Fantom 0? The answer is.....you won't be doing much with very many sampled sounds of any quality.
The quality of the provided acoustic instrument sounds in general are much better on the MODX than the Fantom 0. Most of the sampled based instruments on the Fantom 0 (which use very little memory) come from Roland's 1990's JV soundboards recycled. They are less detailed instruments, generally speaking. Yamaha has many of the very best ones available in a hardware keyboard, and even Kronos users often prefer the Montage/MODX for many of their acoustic sampled instruments.
I've tried the majority of the sounds included, or available as sound packs for the Fantom 0 via Roland's own VST instruments. Except the Super Natural sounds, and the B3 engine, all of them are available in VST's and actually far more of Roland's classics in VST format only and not offered in hardware format currently. While there are some great sounds, over all I much prefer the sounds either included with the MODX or available as a downloadable sound collection from 3rd parties or Yamaha themselves. Not only for sampled instruments, but also for synthesized instruments of even analog classics. While the Fantom is much easier to program analog sounds on (plus for the Fantom 0 there), the AMW2 engine is surprisingly capable.....in the right hands, and 3rd party developers have made excellent reproductions of a lot of the Oberheim, Moog, ARP and other sounds. Still not as flexible as having those full engines. I turn to my VST's for that ability.
Choosing between MODX or Fantom 0, consider this shoppers. Buy a MODX and run Roland's VST's on your laptop! You'll gain most of the sounds & engines of the Fantom 0, but several other highly desirable ones not available like the D-50. These VST's are even compatible with Fantom 0 sound collections, minus the super natural sounds or B3 engine, but there are far better ones available for that stuff in VST format already. Yamaha unlike Roland & Korg does not offer their technology in software format, so it makes sense to have a Yamaha and run Roland and Korg stuff via software. Both Roland and Korg offer even some of their newest hardware synth technology in VST software format. Although I own 13 keyboards including some from Roland and Korg, my live gigs are all based on my MODX, VST's and MIDI controller keyboards. My Roland's and Korg's stay home because I can replicate them via software. Far less to setup or transport to gigs, and cheaper too!
Although I don't doubt the Fantom 0 keybed is better than the MODX, ask yourself, do you have any issues with playing on it? Try it out. I have no complaints, and previous switched from using premium keybeds as I own them from both Korg & Roland. The MODX keybed is not as bad as some say. Korg has actually made some of the worst keybeds I've encountered on some thousand dollar plus instruments, and no one seemed to complain. With the MODX, it got picked on because it such in such huge numbers, and I expect that to continue.
As soon as you mentioned only 8 sliders on the Fantom 0, I thought, there goes the real-time drawbars for the B3 engine. I didn't pick up on that til you mentioned it. Oddly, the MODX/Montage offers a 3rd party software package called Organimation (actually the best organ sounds for the Kronos too) that on the MODX/Montage, ingeniously uses the Super Knob to cycle through all 9 drawbars in real-time. I'm amazed how well this works, and it's actually easier than using real drawbars to get the job done. Not as flexible however as a full B3 engine, but I highly doubt the Fantom 0 organ engine is as good as some of those that exist in VST format which I use.
Winner = MODX + laptop with Roland & Korg VST's, plus the many other VST's for thousands of different sound engines. Also keep in mind by going the VST route for your Roland synths, you not only get the Zen-Core engines of the Fantom 0, but you get more classic Roland keyboard engines not available for the Fantom. Further more, you can also run the "higher quality" ACB versions of classics like the Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-101, etc These offer more faithful emulation of the original hardware classics than what the Fantom or Fantom 0 can run, and also, the form factor of them much better represents the original instruments they resemble rather than the Zen-Core user interface. Want the highly praised D-50, Juno 60 (not lesser quality Juno 106)? Available in VST format only from Roland, along with many others.
For those times you just want an easy gig or rehearsal, the MODX will get you through almost anything just as the Fantom 0 will. But either way, next to using VST's too, your gonna be pretty limited vs the thousands of sound engines available, or pretty much unlimited sample memory. I just practiced for the past couple months with just my MODX, and brought the soft synths and additional MIDI controllers last night to more exactly produce some of the sounds in our songs. I could still play them either way.
Also, the lack of direct output on the MODX the Fantom 0 has (TRS only) is not much of an advantage, or an advantage at all to most of us. Most live bands will still need a directbox anyway not only for a direct output, but for other abilities too. Or a small mixer that has direct outputs on it, commonly used by live bands and in the studio. Either way, I see little advantage to built-in direct outputs. A bit misleading in advertising, sort of like the Fantom 0 coming with 2 gigs of memory. Memory used for samples is VERY expensive in instruments. Memory used on your thumb drive is next to nothing. Not a bad idea to include the 2 gigs, but it's instrument memory I care about. And also, if you want to sample your own sounds, Sample Robot made for the MODX with a laptop is the ideal way to sample your instruments. At the gig, the sound man often requires an XLR connection to the board, so your Fantom 0 will still need a direct box (about $40), a mixer in your setup with XLR, or buying some kind of adapter (and still to loose the other advantage of a direct box or mixer), so why bother with TRS cables (which also cost more than 1/4 cables)?
I still think the Fantom 0 is a great instrument, and like the MODX, one of the best values out there. But I wanted to set the record straight about how these two instruments really compare. People that buy the Fantom 0 should mainly be interested in it's virtual analog abilities, and looking specifically for Roland sounds. You still won't find many analog sounds of other brands models with them. For me, I use mostly Oberheim, Prophet, Moog & ARP analog sounds.
I agree. If one of the main functions a person needs from their keyboard is for it to be able to carry a ton of third party multisamples in it, I'd have to say the Fantoms are not for them. That is in fact one of the weaknesses of the Fantom and Fantom-0. I would argue however that the MODX is not the best solution either. As you said yourself 1GB is barely enough room for you. If a person does not mind minimal hands-on controls, I'd argue the Nautilus is probably the better buy. It comes with a 60GB SSD, and is capable of reading a variety of formats just like the MODX. When I mentioned I feel the Fantom-0 is the best value for the money right now, I was speaking about its overall functionality. It does give a person 8 knobs and 8 sliders and the MODX only gives 4. It comes with a Virtual Tonewheel Organ. The MODX does not. Yes you can get the third party software package Organimation, but in my opinion once we start talking about what third parties have to offer we are no longer talking about the features of the keyboards themselves. Also most people would disagree with you that using the SuperKnob to control the drawbars of an organ is better than even true drawbars. But to each their own. You mentioned that having additional outputs is not an advantage to most keyboard players. But every single flagship (Montage, Kronos, Nautilus, K2700, Fantom) has additional outputs. If it isn't an advantage to virtually anyone, how come flagship keyboards always include additional outputs? This is because people with a variety of setups do indeed take advantage of them. So having more knobs, sliders and outputs is seen by most as something "better." Also the audio interface allows for 32 channels out and 4 in. That is quite a bit more that what the MODX offers. So again people see that as more value for the money. The Fantom-0 gives you pads that have a variety of functions. Maybe you personally don't need them but it does give users more options for their workflows. Having a joystick as well as wheels for pitch bend and modulation is also an advantage to many. I mean if your are going to invest well over $1000 in hardware it makes sense to actually have buttons, knobs, sliders, joysticks, wheels, etc. The Fantom actually has a sequencer that lets you edit MIDI data on a piano roll. This is not something available on the MODX. Granted the MODX is a synthesizer not a workstation. But again with Fantom-0 here is yet another feature you get that is not present on it's main competitors. The Fantom-0 allows for seamless sound switching for up to 8 zones. The MODX only gives you 4. So the Fantom is giving you more for your money in that department as well. Lastly, you talked a lot about using VST's and a laptop with the MODX. But again, once you start bringing up using a laptop we are no longer talking about the instruments themselves. Pairing a laptop with a Fantom-0 clearly increases the power of your setup. A person could get Arturia's software and have access to all of the Oberheim, Prophet, Moog, ARP, and all of the classic Roland synth sounds as well. And if they pair it with a Fantom-0 versus a MODX they will actually have more knobs, sliders, and buttons to actually manipulate their VSTs in real time. They can use various sound libraries for their acoustic sounds if they feel the acoustic sounds on the Fantom-0 do not cut it. With a laptop to whole "sample memory" issue virtually disappears. I'd argue that the DAW integration is better for those people using Ableton, Mainstage or Logic as well. That's actually a lot of people. Mainstage and Ableton are certainly main players in the "worship community" nowadays. The Fantom has better tight integration with them than the MODX. With all of that said, every keyboard is not for everyone. While I feel the Fantom-0 is a better value overall, if a person feels the MODX has more of what they need, then the MODX is the way to go. I mean it has over 10,000 arps and a SuperKnob knob that can control over 128 parameters simultaneously! The 256mb of multisample memory is a demerit for the Fantom-0. But in my opinion if we are being as unbiased as possible, it is hard to argue that having less outputs, less knobs, less sliders, less buttons, less i/o in your audio interface, no sampler, no pads, less sequencer features, less tight DAW integration, less seamless sound transition voices, etc is somehow the better value.
@@darrickkeels6387 You made some good points. I'll further elaborate.
And by the way, hours after I wrote my comment, one of the area music stores finally got a Fantom 0 on the demo floor. I only had an hour to spend as I didn't expect to see it and they were closing, but I'll be back soon.
I believe modern synthesizers keyboards are no different than buying a computer. It's not just about the software that comes with it, but about the software you can import to take it to another level. Microsoft Windows computers would have been a flop if people bought them just for the included software. For many years, they completely dominated the market because of the the software made for them. Same with video game consoles. It's not really about the included games, but about all the games you are compatible with the system.
While I agree the Nautilus has a lot more space onboard for samples, it's not just about the sampled instruments but also the synthesized instruments, and the quality of them. The odd thing is even with all kinds of VST's of famous instruments such as the Arturia collection of analog synths, clones of the Oberheim, Moog, Prophet, ARP, Jupiter, etc. I'm still finding a lot of great "famous" sound patches from the 80s (I specialize in 80s/70s rock by the way) that can be imported into the MODX either through Montage sounds, the MOTIF series, or the DX-7 series that I was unable to find in VST's. Having both is ideal however.
I think it is said best the finding the kind of sounds we need for our specific needs is probably the most important thing. The MODX wins by a mile for me in it's ability to find the kinds of sounds my bands need as an 80s/70s rock tribute band. The Fantom more targets synth pop & techno sounds. Fortunately since I can run Roland's VST's which are compatible with the vast number of sounds made for the Fantom 0, I can still have those sounds too and if sound collections that are more appealing start to come to market, I can have those too without buying a Fantom 0.
The combination of gaining both Yamaha's file format, and most of the Fantom 0 via VST to me is the real winner. Running VST's on a Fantom 0 looses the ability to gain the hugely popular with 3rd party developers Yamaha format. While I agree if your running Mainstage or a couple other hosting formats there is some integration with the Fantom 0. In my case, I've been heavily into VST's since they first came out, and I'm not running Mainstage or those other packages that do integrate with Fantom 0, so I wouldn't gain that advantage.
Nautilus by the way is largely incompatible with Kronos sound collections. When first introduced, it was totally incompatible. Then after countless complaints about a very obvious assumed ability would be included, they came out with a converter that leaves a lot to be desired. It can load some, but if you really want the ability to load Kronos sound collections (which I believe are far fewer than you could load into a MODX), you are really best off with a Kronos. Organimation for example, likely the best Hammond collection for Kronos, is incompatible with Nautilus. The Nautilus is significantly more expensive and significantly heavier than the the MODX or Fantom 0, so for those reasons alone I don't think it's a good choice for many of us. I love that at my recent band practices, the MODX was powerful enough to get me through all of my band's material and the ability to advance patches on the beat with a foot pedal make it possible to get away with fewer physical keyboards. So simple to transport. And then at gigs, I'll use VST's and extra MIDI controller keyboards to sound my absolute best. I now have a choice if I want an easy practice or easy gig, or if I want the very best sounds available with the combination of MODX sounds and VST's. The trick with the more limited seemless switching is eliminating elements that provide details that are almost unheard. I should also note, my uses of my keyboards are strictly for live performances. That is another important thing to mention. In a live performance, a lot of those extra elements used in some sounds are very heard to hear in the mix of a live band. Just eliminate them.
Speaking of Organimation, I finally got to try out the B3 engine in the Fantom 0. In the hour I had, I did not find the basic operation of the Fantom 0 to be too easy to navigate compared to the MODX, however I've been using it for years now. I only found a few B3 presets, and I was very disappointed in what I heard. Especially when sounds were named after famous people, but sounded nothing like them. Organimation sounds superior from what I've heard of the Fantom 0 B3 engine in the little time I had to spend with it. How to go into edit mode? And other than pressing the organ button, how do I find the rest of the B3 sounds on the Fantom 0? Surely it must have included more than the few I found, or does it really only come with a few no so impressive presets?
As mentioned, on the MODX you can add the extra buttons, knobs and sliders just as you can on the Nautilus with a USB Windows class device. The Fantom 0 "may" have this ability too, but I'm unsure. Unlike the MODX, I'm not sure there is room on the crowded panel of the Fantom 0 to add a controller like the Korg Nano Kontroller if you wanted 9 sliders for example (I have the original version of the Nano Kontroller with 9 sliders). Super light weight and can fit on top of the MODX. I found the placement of some of the controls on the Fantom 0 in awkward positions vs where they would be on most synths when you needed to use them.
Also, how to do I navigate to hear ALL of the super natural sounds? One thing I did like is it clearly stated which engines it was using, so I'll know what would run on Roland's VST's, and which were SN sounds or used the B3 engine.
I do plan on spending time learning the Fantom 0's basics and checking it out a lot more. I do no expect to like it nearly as much as the MODX, but I am highly interested in learning all about it. And we'll see if I ever decide to add one to my collection. Unlike the Nautilus, I do agree like the MODX the Fantom 0 is an excellent value, and there are enough differences between the MODX & Fantom 0 to justify owning both, especially for those that aren't interested in soft synths.
@@classicarcadeamusementpark4242 I hear you. You are a big MODX fan because of how it works for you. And ultimately that's what counts from a personal perspective. But when I am making videos I must consider a broader audience. People looking to make a buying decision on these instruments aren't just 70's/80's cover band keyboard players. Consider this, there are over 12,000 Church of God in Christ churches and a good 98% of those churches own at least one keyboard. On top of that their keyboard players normally own at least one keyboard. Assembly of God Churches number about 12,000 as well. They all own at least one keyboard. Their musicians also own keyboards. A very very conservative number would be 24,000 keyboard players and about 50,000 keyboards are floating around in just two Christian denominations. These keyboard players are playing every single Sunday and often throughout the week there are services and rehearsals. Recreating songs from the 70's and 80's is quite simply not important for the work that they do. Loading a bunch of sounds in a keyboard to perform a Michael Jackson tribute concert is outside of their scope of work. In a lot of these churches Ableton Live and MainStage are king. The Roland having tight DAW integration with these platforms is a major plus for that entire community. Some smaller churches have volunteers that only know how to turn a sound system on and off lol! A keyboard player often will show up to a service and play with a drummer they have never played with before. Having an additional output to send a click to the drummer becomes crucial, and you have exactly 7 minutes to get him that metronome click. So while additional outputs are no big deal to you, they are a big deal to someone. Having them adds value. Lots of Gospel keyboard players value faders and knobs more than you may realize. It is a crucial part of their workflow. Furthermore for people making their own backing tracks to use in service, DAW integration, a good built in audio interface and or a sequencer with fast workflow with lots of editing options is crucial. An organ sound is critical for many churches that do not own an organ. A keyboard that has a fairly convincing organ is far more valued than one that doesn't. In many churches the organ is the main sound not the piano. You will not be able to convince an organ player that having four sliders is just as good as having 8. Granted 9 is ideal but 8 is way better than 4. And the SuperKnob method is just a no go. Going out and buying a 3rd party organ emulator, a MIDI controller with sliders, a bunch of VSTs on deck on a computer is going to seem overly complicated to many churches. The pastor may ask, "Why can't the keyboard we paid $2000 for do the job?" In short what I am saying is we often forget the diversity of people buying keyboards. Everyone from bedroom producers that can barely play a piano to cover band musicians, to singer songwriters, to churches, to church musicians, cinematic composers, to keyboard players in different countries playing music we've never heard, etc. The list goes on. You may not consider balanced outputs to be better on your keyboard because you are using a direct box or mixer and short cables on stage. But everyone's setup is not that way. I was recently asked to set up an additional keyboard in a multipurpose room at a church. They had a Nord, a powered speaker (QSC), and two 20 ft patch cables. The connection was noisy. Why? The Nord has unbalanced outputs. There were no direct boxes available as mine were being used in the main auditorium. I swapped it out with the Montage and the noise was gone. Why? The Montage's jacks are balanced. Balanced jacks are better than unbalanced. One can make an argument that it's a non-issue for them but they cannot say a keyboard with unbalanced jacks is a better value than one with balanced main outputs. While I prefer Yamaha's acoustic sounds over Roland's the audiences I play for cannot tell a difference. In fact when I play Roland's Supernatual Strings through the expensive sound system in the church I play for they sound absolutely amazing. The pianos, EPs, horns, pads, basses, literally everything sounds good. When Jordan Rudess plays a string patch on a Kronos everyone is amazed. No one says "Yamaha has the best acoustic sounds. Your music would sound so much better if you were using a Montage instead." So when I speak about something being a "better value" I am speaking in broad general terms. Of course the MODX is better for some musicians. Others need a Nautilus. If a person wants or needs an on board linear sequencer then the Nautilus will serve them better than a MODX or Fantom-0. There is no one size fits all keyboard. But a keyboard with tight DAW integration for two of the most popular DAWs, with more analog and digital outputs, an onboard sampler, pattern sequencer with piano roll, double the faders, double the knobs, more buttons, pads, joystick and wheels, balanced main outputs, will suit more musicians in general than a keyboard that is lacking those things.
@@darrickkeels6387 It is interesting how we both have a very difference perspective of what the market for these keyboards actually are. I do agree that there is no "one size fits all". Musicians come in a wide variety from all different styles of music and places to perform.
Like you, I also attend a Christian church. I've gone on & off since I was a kid in the 70s. My mother was one of the teachers in the 70s of the Christian school there which I attended for 4 years, and became principle in the 80s. My younger sister has taught there for years now. At our church, I don't think a synthesizer keyboard has even been used. We have a large organ much larger than a Hammond with stops (not drawbars) and an upright piano. In truth, while the message is good in our music, the melody of our music has bored me to death since I was a kid. Much of it is turn of the century. We still have the same organist from the 70s too. The piano is shared by about 3 people. I'd much prefer music probably more like you have in your church.
As a musician with my perspective, I feel the largest market for the MODX & Fantom 0 is more "weekend warriors". There are more than 65,000 bars here in the USA. Although I've never been a drinker, speak out against drugs which I've never touch, bars are the main audience. Sometimes my bands have played casinos, smaller theaters, campgrounds, festivals, weddings & parties. Some rival bands have played cruise ships (I'd love to do that). I would tend to think these would be the biggest markets for these keyboards. I could be wrong I suppose. Famous bands playing Civic Centers & Stadiums would no doubt be using the flagship models rather than these light weight, budget versions.
While I agree not everyone is playing 80s or 70s music, many agree the music of the past 30 years has left a lot to be desired. Especially terms of live performance, which I feel live performance is a big market for these keyboards. Younger people are listening to their parents generation of music more now than ever I am hearing. A lot of modern music isn't really intended to be played live, and the audience for live music is more older people these days. There are so many 80s rock bands now, the band I was in wanted to change the format. That didn't sit well with me. 13 bands offered me a gig with in a week of leaving. No shortage of live rock bands playing older music around here.
I'm surprised to hear the church didn't have a direct box around or a mixer around with an XLR they could send the signal to. When shopping for a keyboard that doesn't have a direct output, buying a $30-$40 box the size of a deck of cards s not going to influence the decision on a $1500+ keyboard. Especially when it's needed for many of us regardless if the keyboard has a direct output on it. Most sound companies will provide them at gigs, but I always have my own anyway.
I do agree with you for some, the extra output for a click track could be useful. I play mostly rock, which doesn't need that as a live band. I also have had the opinion for many years, that live music should be entirely live. I'm not a fan of bands that use click tracks or any kind of tracks to replace a melodic instrument. For a sound effect I'm ok with it. Maybe in some bands the click track could be useful not for the music, but to help synchronize a video screen behind them. I've never done that so far as most "cover bands" don't. Speaking of cover bands, just one FB group I'm on "keyboards players in cover bands" has about 10,000 members.
Regarding drawbars vs using the Super Knob, I have both options in my rig. I personally prefer using the Super Knob rather than having to manually adjust 9 sliders. It's just easier. Turning it quickly to the right pulls out all drawbars. Turning quickly to the left turns them all off except maybe a little footage of the left bar. Turning slowly either direction adjusts them one at a time. It's an incredible feature! Never thought of this one before. Check it out on RUclips. Just as on some Nords, there are LED buttons instead of drawbars. Many players ended up liking it better. Sometimes thinking out of the box isn't a bad thing.
I was largely under impressed with the Super Natural sounds I heard (except the strings as you mentioned). Same with past Roland's with the SN. The next time I visit the music store, how can sort "just the SN sounds" to try them out? Those are really the only part of the Fantom missing from my rig I could be interested in as Roland's VST's cover the others, and my Hammond VST's most likely exceed the B3 engine in the Fantom 0. But I find Organimation generally is excellent with a few exceptions. Also, how can I enter editing mode for the B3 engine, and how to can I sort just the organ sounds? Pressing the organ engine only gave me a few organ sounds, and I was mostly very disappointed in them.
In conclusion, I tend to think a lot of the kind of sounds the Fantom 0 excels at are generally targeting markets that are usually not as common in live music. But I think both of us in our comments have given a lot of food for thought, and I do highly respect your comments. The MODX has proved the most versatile hardware keyboard I've owned. And I've owned plenty of flagships from the 3 big companies, and have been playing synths and been a synth fanatic for more than 35 years.
Yeah there is an estimated 350,000-380,000 churches in the US alone. The majority of them own a keyboard of some sort. Even if 150,000 congregations do not use a keyboard that still leaves well over 200,000 churches. The church is an often "forgotten" market. The fastest growing (or the only growing😄) churches in the US are Pentecostal churches and they certainly use keyboards. Of course the weekend warriors are a massive group. I'm a weekend warrior myself. But even still if only 1/3 of the churches in the US used a keyboard that would still be almost double of all the nightclubs and bars in the country. And playing live on a Sunday morning in a church is quite a bit different from playing live in the Casino. Even with that said, where I live in the US, more and more bands are starting to use backing tracks. It's simply the trend. Even big name bands like Earth Wind and Fire use click tracks etc. So the landscape is changing. Nord specifically markets to an African American Gospel group. Musicians like Cory Henry and even Stevie Wonder were church musicians. The MD for Justin Timberlake's band used to be play at the churches I attended years ago. Cory Henry has recently added a Fantom to his live set. So I don't believe I am far off when considering what is of value in a broad sense. Yes, I agreed that sample memory is very important. And of that is what a keyboard player really needs, then a Fantom-0 is the wrong choice. But if working in a studio with Ableton, Logic or on stage with MainStage, the Fantom-0 wins. If recording backing tracks on your keyboard itself is what you do, the Fantom wins. If organ is a staple in your music, the Fantom-0 wins. If you want hands on controls, well...again the Fantom-0 wins. If you want a sampler....the Fantom-0 wins. That is bringing a lot to the table that the MODX does not. Now before the Fantom-0 launched I did several videos on the MODX and I said the MODX was the best value on the market for keyboards in its segment. But now that a new keyboard has launched the MODX has lost that seat generally speaking in my opinion. Still great. I still have one. Not selling it lol! But it's hard to remain at the top forever.
Thanks for this super detailed deep dive. It was what I needed to help me figure out the differences between the 2 Roland Fantom series and to make the right choice for my needs.
Which was your choice?
Been reading the comments and seeing the various discussions. Nice to see another video from your Darrick. You've done well. A short summary to all reading the comments and deciding between Fantom-0 and MODX.
If you are buying the MODX, you are buying it for the: acoustic sounds, great presets, scene functionality, AWM2 & FM engine, 1GB flash memory for custom samples/multisamples, SuperKnob, 4-part multitimbrality, lightweight, patch compatibility with Montage, 10x4 audio interface (class-compliant), almost-decent keys, 7-inch touchscreen, envelope follower and VCM effects.
If you're buying the Fantom-0, you are buying it for the: synth sounds (Roland's acoustic patches don't really compare either to Nautilus or the MODX), Supernatural, Zen-core, B3 engines, 32x4 audio interface (not class compliant), classic Roland efx, 8/16 part multitimbrality, matrix control, lightweight design, patch combability with FANTOM and other Zen-Core sounds, 5.5-inch touch screen, decent keybed, vocoder, 16/8 track clip sequencer (3 recording methods. TR-Rec, Step record and linear) up to 64 measures and 8 rows with a microscope, piano roll and automation editing, live synthesizer control, 2GB memory for Pads, 256MB for samples/multi-samples, sub-out and external device port.
This should summarize your usage of these keyboards. In general, neither sequencer nor sampler is great in comparison with their predecessors, so if you are looking for an all in one workstation, get a Kurzweil K2700 or the Korg Nautilus. Or if you can find a used one, get a Fantom X/G, Motif-XF or Kronos.
Do not buy any board based on a promise by the company, buy it for what it is at that moment. If the promise fails, you are the one who suffers, not the manufacturer. Maybe their brand ratings and reviews will go down, but you may lose the money you spent on that machine.
Hey Able! Always nice to see you on the channel. We are going to have to connect away from RUclips one of these days!
@@ErraticFaith 'I have a thought of my own I think.' Roland has done a very good job with their new lineup of keyboards. In comparison to the time Kakehashi-san was in the company (very innovative products), Miki-san has done a great job to support the products that were released years ago. This is not the case with other brands. I wrote that statement in regards to brands in general, not specific to Roland. The newer hardware keyboards have been designed with future expandability in mind, this wasn't the case about 5-6 years ago, you had to deal with what you had.
Roland's list of abandoning products quickly goes a long way. The Fantom-X/G, Jupiter 80, their arranger lineup and many more that people can recall. Now while Roland, Korg, Yamaha or Kawai or whoever may promise many things, I don't look up their promise, but what they have to offer me at that moment. I will wait until they have delivered on that promise, and then dish out the money. The price of FANTOM is still the same as it was 3 years ago. Of course, there is a chip shortage, but the price hasn't changed. But what FANTOM had to offer me 3 years ago, and what it offers me now, changes my mind on whether I want to buy that board or not. Back in 2019, I wasn't very interested, but after version 2.5, I was hooked. And with 3.0, it's only getting better. Roland has a new update around the corner, and that will show where they are planning to take FANTOM.
What I said was my advice on buying something, not someone else's advice. FANTOM's price tag isn't going to change, but it's feature set will dramatically change over time. When someone feels that Roland has matured the FANTOM to their needs, then they can spend their money without worrying on a promise that Roland made months or years ago.
Great video! Thank you for breaking it down AND mentioning the comparable competition too.
This was dope! Keep it up! 💯
Also, I'd get the 'lil Fantom because my main sequencer is the MPC and I use it for multi-timbral tracking anyways.
Thank you so much, Darrick, for this great product video. I already have a MODX7+ and love it very much. However, I am looking for a great Midi controller with Neo Vent II connection possibility to blast my B3 GSI hammond app.. sound like the Fantrom 06 could do the trick (and act as backup keyboard at the same time?)… however, not waterfall keys…What is your opinion?
Excellent review and super informative. Really glad I saw this video before making buying decision. Thank you Darrick.
Great comparison. Loving my 0 not a stage performer so for me with all of my NI and MPC Studio one etc it’s a great addition.
I personally have FA 08 a couple of years now and because of playing a lot of live performances im thinking of buying synthesizer on top of that. I looked at lot of expensive synthesizers, but in the end it looks like I'll stay with Roland because it offers decent performance for relatively little money. In addition, Fantom 07 is user-friendly like FA.
I have the FA06 I use it for aux it’s been my secret weapon!!! I just purchased the flagship Fantom together is a great combo!!! I wanted to buy the O6 but I’m good I may still buy the 08 for my studio!!!
At the end I bought new Nord stage 4 88, because my FA08 suddenly started to go out of tune and i dont have anyone who knows how to repair it and I needed some beast at the bottom. When I repair it one day, I'll sell it and buy some small Fantom 6 or 06 on top, depending on my budget. The mixture of Nord and Roland is epic. From Roland I can have nice warm synth and pads, which I somehow cannot make with Nord stage synth, however the possibilities on Nord stage 4 are on another league, so mixture of these two I find really interesting.
Thank you so much for the detailed comparison and guidance. I have a different question tho. May we know what 2 tier keyboard stand are you using? 😊
Hi Darrick,
Love your videos, thank you - you’ve convinced me that I “need” both now!
I’m so ready to get into Fantom-world, and Christmas (and Black Friday), is coming up.
I’m lucky to have a home office where I have a MacBook running Logic with a NI S61 Mk 2 plugged in. In my gym I have an older Yamaha DGX-660 (to use in between workout sets and to keep noise away from fam.)
My current thought, after a myriad of variations, is to replace DGX in gym with Fantom 7, and also replace S61 Mk2 with a Fantom 06, as its light enough to carry into the lounge and noodle around there, helping me to learn and practice a little more often to learn the workflow.
Does this sound like a good plan to you? Any downsides, other options?
Many thanks in advance 🙏
I’ve been tempted by the 07 and you’ve answered many questions, thanks. I guess having a smaller internal memory might be a good thing if it discourages me buying too many extra sounds afterwards.
As long as you don't need lots of 3rd party samples in the keyboard it really shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks have Fantom-07 but didn' t realize the memory management difference between single an multi samples before your video. Is there a way to manage libraries to make them smaller and only keep the most useful sounds ?
great overview, to me it confirms the big brother is a better investment and even more value/$ then the 0... my reason to choose mode above Roland is the arps, 8 arps simultaneously vs 1 arp.
i guess the polyphony limitation kills the purpose of playing arps altogether !
Thank you! I have been wondering about this difference, and recently discovered that the 2019 Fantom is out of stock, just about everywhere. Roland seems to be back and forth with the classification. I was going to ask about this at NAMM, but the biggest question is still regarding the time stretching, which is even problematic within some of their own patches. Issues aside, I am pretty curious to see how Roland plays this, moving forward.
Thanks again for this comparison. It was really helpful.
Back and forth with the classification? You mean between synthesizer and workstation? BTW I love your channel, thanks for stopping by my little channel!
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks! Still in the beginning stages, so I really appreciate that. A few people I know have also asked Roland. We all know it as a workstation, but Roland's website and some of their reps say otherwise. When you said that you asked, it immediately grabbed my attention. While I am also curious as to why this very specific discrepancy, the time stretching thing is something that many of us thought would be resolved by the 3.0 update. I am more curious why this basic sampler feature was left out, and still does not exist within their flagship, as previous Fantom's included time stretching.
@@VIRALBEATS360 Yes agreed the lack of time stretching in this day and age on ROLAND'S FLAGSHIP is a deal breaker for that price !!! ~I cannot understand it seeing as technology has come such a long way since the previous Fantoms that could time stretch !
Very informative video was exactly what I needed. I am thinking of a Fantom 7 or Nord Stage 3 to replace my old Motif XS. When I saw Fantom 07 I thought it was a bargain. I would prefer spend the extra for the full Fantom.
Now a question :) Which is better between Fantom 7, Nord Stage 3 and Montage 7. I like mostly Piano and Strings and some synth pads.
Hard to really say. If playing piano, strings and pads is all you really need them for, any one of them can do the job. It will come down to which brand you prefer soundwise.
My Stage 3 is a killer
Hi, Darrick
Another excelent vídeo with a comprehensive vision.
Thank you for posting and help us to decide.
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it!
Great video. If I was buying today, I'd hold out (save up) for the big Fantom.
Great video Darrick...just wanna know your opinion which one works out great in comparison for sounds and workflow-Korg Kronos,Yamaha Montage or Roland Fantom??
That's tough because it really depends on what a person is looking for. The keyboards are so different in many ways and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Sounds depends on preference, although Roland has the most quantity. Workflow, Fantom best by far, Montage is average, Kronos is cancer.
Workflow: Roland Fantom
Sounds: Nautilus/K2700. They have bigger and better sample libraries. Montage needs an update.
Talking 'bout having some serious knowledge about these units...very impressive, truly a helpful video! Thank you
Hi Darrick, did the pitch wheel/stick function properly for you when trying to do quick manual vibratos? To me it seemed like the Fantom pitch bend was too slow to allow this, resulting in very low movement vibratos. I tried connecting an external pitch bend controller and it worked fine, so not sure what could be going on here.
For $2000.00 less, I am content with a few less features. I wish Roland had introduced it a year ago.
The FA07 was the closest workstation to the Fantom prior to the Fantom 0 series. And the FA07 doesn’t have the ZEN-Core engine,and cost nearly as much as the Fantom 07. And I wish they included the weighted or semi weighted key bed on the Fantom 07 as they did with the Fantom 08. They label it as the PHA4 key bed. The Fantom 8 has the PHA 50 I think, which is on the RD2000 as well. The PHA 50 key bed is fully weighted with wooden keys, and ivory feel.
It's a really good value in my opinion. And the build quality is quite good!
FA has the D-beam, more Supernatural Acoustic tones, offline track exporting, linear sequencer, custom arpeggio patterns. ZenCore is not that different than the previous Supernatural Synth and PCM engines combined.
This is exactly the video I was looking for to understand the difference between the Phantom and the Phantom -0. Good job 👌
I agree 100% with you, the Modx 6, 7 keyboard it's a toy. As for me, it is acceptable at this price. Additionally, the distances between the keys are unequal.
Darrick man I just love this videos! Thank you so much for it. I have a favor to ask, can you do a demo video on tone remain and how you hit the polyphony sealing?
I can yes!
@@darrickkeels6387 much much appreciated! I'm still waiting for my Fantom 7 to arrive, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible about it.
Not sure if you have seen the video where I demonstrate the notes cutting out. Here is the link:
ruclips.net/video/1BVDMMSBvZI/видео.html
@@darrickkeels6387 I just did buddy, thank you so much!
I’m so glad I bought the Fantom 8 when it came out.
It's a great keyboard!
Thanks for the video! I have the Modx but I will also get a Fantom. Why not get both? Both seem great :)
Just found and subscribed to your Channel. Considering playing in a live band again, and thus looking for the ideal keyboard to do pretty much everything other musicians don't. How would you consider multisampling wrt to old fantom-g with features and memory available for those babies ? Between ModX/Montage Fantoms and Kronos, which one would perform best on the brass (best sound, articulations, most playable - dude I miss the ARX-03 of my fantom-g8, too heavy to move around though...)
In all honesty in my opinion the Nautilus (Kronos) and Montage (MODX) sound better than the Fantoms when it comes to sounds like brass. My personal favorite is the Montage for most sampled "real" instruments like Brass, Strings, Woodwinds, etc. But the Korgs are great as well. The multisampling feature on the new Fantom is sufficient for basic multisampling and fairly straightforward. The Kronos allows for more velocity layers and it's sampler as a whole is a fully featured sampler as opposed to the "bare bones" one found in the New Fantom. The old Fantom G had more options in its sampler than the new Fantom.
Derrick you are awesome. I really appreciate the input you had to my question. Just one more please. What is the difference between the roland fantom fa series and the fantom o series? Does either of these let you hear the tracks as you add each instrument to a scene. Like the Modx does?
There are quite a few differences between the Fantom-0 vs the FA. The FA is not compatible with the new Zencore platform. The Fantom-0 has more analog outputs, and more real-time controls. The "Supernatual Pianos" allow you more editing parameters in the FA though. The FA has a traditional linear sequencer rather than a pattern sequencer. But overall unless there is a specific feature you want from the FA, the Fantom-0 is just better. It has the better DAW integration. It has more controls, more polyphony, better audio interface, better keybed, and its overall expandability is going to last you into the future.
Thank you! Be been looking for this for days!
Much Respect on this informative video!!! I ordered the Fantom 08 keyboard to use with Logic Pro and Ableton. I don't play live but I did want a lightweight keyboard to take with me when I go on vacation as well as use at home. I subscribe to the Roland Cloud, so when I create, I have access to a lot of Roland sounds. I have a Yamaha MOX8-88 (over 10 years old) that I am giving to my kids and grandkids to practice on and hopefully learn to play. Also, the price is right for me. Again, Thank You!! Peace!!!
Nice video, well explained. Can you compare keybed of Fantom 07 and Korg Nautilus? Which is better?
Unfortunately, I do not plan on purchasing a Nautilus because I already own a Korg Kronos. I do not think either keyboard is better. It all comes down to what you are looking for in a keyboard. You should then purchase the one that offers you more of what you need.
I am pretty much aware of possibilities of both keyboards, fantom 0 and nautilus. I owned kronos 2, modx6. I sold modx because i didn't manage to adopt on keybed, pretty cheap quality. I tried nautilus in store and its keybed feel nice and solid to me. Now, fantom 06, 07 keybed i cant try anywhere in shops near me, so trying to get some clues of it in comparing to some keyboards that i played or own.
I don't own either but played both; I think the Korg Nautilus had a bit better action. But honestly, I was disappointed that it took a mere 3 minutes for Nautilus to boot up.
Missed this video out the gate. Great comparison by the way. Doing what you do well.
Thank you!
Congratulations on the channel!! How do you analyze the sound quality between Korg kronos x Yamaha Montage and Roland Fantom? If you were to choose just one, which one would it be?
Sounds are really a matter of personal preference so I really try avoiding making statements about which keyboard sounds “better” on the channel unless I preface it with “in my opinion.” With that said in my opinion the overall tonal quality of the Kronos and Montage is about equal. While I prefer most of the acoustic instruments on the Yamaha like, guitars, solo violins, violas, saxophones, trumpets, French Horns, etc. I prefer the Rhodes, Wurlies, Organs, Clavs, and basses of the Kronos. So the Montage and Kronos really compliment one another. So a lot comes down to the genre of music a person plays. A keyboard player that plays in an 80’s cover band will likely never need a great sounding Oboe on their keyboard. So Yamaha having a great Oboe won’t mean much. Another keyboard player may record lots of music with guitar sounds. The wicked organ sounds of a Kronos may not be a must. Overall tonal quality of the Roland Fantom comes in last to me. The pianos both acoustic and electric are a step behind the other two in my opinion. The acoustic pianos I find a bit dull in texture on the Roland. The strings, horns, woodwinds etc are okay but nothing mind blowing there. Synth sounds are very strong category for the Roland but they are certainly strong for the Montage and Kronos as well so they are really equal in that department especially if you know your way around subtractive synthesis. Now, if you are into FM Synthesis then the Roland cannot help you at all. But the Yamaha has the FMX 8-Operator sound engine and the Kronos has the 6-Operator MOD-7 sound engine. But if I could only choose one keyboard, it would be the Fantom. This is not because it has superior sounds. For me workflow and connectivity is very important. The Fantom is superior to the Kronos and Montage in these departments. When I create studio projects for clients I use VSTs and Ableton Live. No hardware keyboard has the raw power to keep up with a DAW and computer with VSTs. The music I create is modern and requires higher sound fidelity than 80’s cover band music. The Fantom has DAW integration with Ableton Live that is simply unmatched by the Korg and Yamaha. I also record vocals and the Fantom has XLR inputs allowing me to connect a condenser microphone with the onboard phantom power. The architecture for controlling external gear is also superior on the Fantom. Integrating internal and external sounds is very simple on the Fantom. Two button presses and I have immediate control over an external sound source. So I can play a piano sound from the computer and a pad sound from the Fantom seamlessly. If the computer crashes two button presses allow me to switch to all internal sounds. On the occasion where I record ideas in my keyboard itself, the Fantom has the most modern sequencer. It has a piano roll to make quick edits, record clips like Ableton Live, and the pads make it really easy to launch clips. When I am playing 80’s covers with my band the Roland is up to the task. The pianos, synths, organs, horns, clavs, EPS, and so on are definitely good enough for that. Even when playing more modern music live the Fantom holds its own. What I have found working as a sound engineer with the majority of sound systems being ran in mono is that keyboards lose much of their tonal fidelity once they aren’t run in stereo. Furthermore, in a mix the subtle nuisances of a piano sound are not heard usually. Less is typically more in a live sound situation because what matters is the overall mix the crowd is hearing. When listening to various keyboards while mixing FOH they all sound “good.” I cannot tell much difference between a Yamaha,Korg or Roland at that point. So my main keyboard is the Roland Fantom. And if I could only have one, it’s the one I’d keep.
@@darrickkeels6387
Thank you very much for your feedback. Everything you said I agree about the yamaha montage strong bridges and the Korg Kronos. I have Korg kronos 2 73 and Yamaha montage 7, I miss having a more elaborate synth engine like it is in Roland Fantom. I'm sometimes covering the 80's, I see that the fantom would be an excellent acquisition. The Fantom07 model would do well in this role. At the same time I don't want to invest unnecessarily in equipment just for a few reasons. I'm waiting for Yamaha to update the assembly with a VA engine.
Great video. I finally got a clear description of the Fantom's sequencer.
It's limited but fast, easy and pretty useful in the right context. Thank you for watching.❤️
Thanks. Usually people make comparison in depreciated terms to the fantom 0. But this is very useful.🙏
Hello guy,
Thank you for this quite full comparison of the differences between the two models. I would like to give you a tip for your work but I don't see any "thank bouton", like others channels. Would you plane to use this new feature on your channel?
Hi Darrick, I love your vids. I am a keyboard player that plays in church alone during the week and in a band on Sundays. I need a keyboard for my church that allows me cover bass, piano, organ, and strings in a song while I'm playing alone. I also play organ on keys in the church band mainly and sax on keys when needed and bass on keys when the bass player is out. I need to know what type of keyboard would best serve my church. I am looking at the montage 8, but it there a better or equally great choice for all that I do?
Tough one. So I think the Montage/MODX would be a better fit personally. The sax sounds, strings sounds, and piano sounds are better in the Yamaha to me. But that is a personal preference thing. However, the virtual tone wheel organ in the Roland certainly outpaces what Yamaha has to offer in the Montage. You may want to look at the YC series of stage keyboards by Yamaha because it includes a virtual tone wheel organ as well.
Thank You so much for replying. Yes I think the montage would be better since the quality is better. Thanks again! 😊
Nice job, Darrick. Thank you for this beautifully done comparison. :)
Hi,
if you've ever tried Komplete Kontrol S88, can you tell me how Fantom-08 keybed/key action compares to it?
Thank you very much for this info and also for the this video :)
Yes in my opinion the PHA-4 is better, if your goal is for it to feel like a real grand piano. The PHA-4 action on the Fantom-0 is a graded action. This means the higher keys aren't as heavy as the lower keys just like a real piano. Also that keybed comes with escapement. This emulates the hammer falling away from the string while the key is still pressed. This is something that also happens in real piano. The Komplete Kontrol S88 is not a graded action so the higher keys feel just like the lower keys. And it has no escapement feature. But what it does have that the Fantom-0 doesn't have is aftertouch. With all that said the feel of a keybed is very much a personal preference. Just like some people prefer the sound and feel of a Steinway and Son's grand piano over a Fazioli Italian grand piano.
Watched the video, quite informative. Appreciate you bringing these high quality videos and breaking down the features. I am going to say that I can see why these companies are starting to go away from coming out with as many full blown workstation offerings. Most of the time we only use the sounds and a few other features and the rest doesn't get touched. A shame that the companies have gotten away from offering the rack versions.
On another note, when you are in the scenarios where you have a full blown Fantom and then a 0 series, are you gigging the 0 series, or the ModX and leaving the full versions for home/studio use?
Indeed, now with DAWs offering more than ever the majority of people are using a DAW to do the things workstations were used for years ago. Yes technically I could produce an entire album on my Korg Kronos, but I wouldn't want to. Plus I would miss things like my pitch correction software, or the realism of the electric basses and guitars. I like Roland's approach (and Yamaha to a lesser degree) of making a keyboard that works exceptionally well as part of a bigger musical ecosystem.
Now, when gigging I actually take the Roland Fantom and the Montage as well. For me weight is not a huge deal. I use a cart with wheels and my keyboard cases have wheels. Yes, I have to lift them in and out of my vehicle and put them on their keyboard stands but I am not really "lifting" them all that much. If I have a gig at a hotel or casino with multiple floors they typically always have an elevator. It's extremely rare for me to be walking up flights of stairs. When that kind of thing does happen, normally bandmates, or a Casino staff, church staff are willing to help out. And most of the time I end up helping a drummer or another keyboardist with their stuff too😄! With that said, if I have a gig in which the Fantom best suits that gig I will take the Fantom. But maybe there are some auxiliary sounds that sound best with the Montage. When I go to the gig I will show up with the Fantom and MODX. If the Montage best suits the gig but there are some horns that sound best with the Roland Fantom. That's when I will take the Fantom-0. If I am heading to a friend's house for a rehearsal and they lack space I take smaller lighter keyboards like the MODX, Nord Stage 3 Compact, or Fantom-0. But I personally like gigging with heavy keyboards. Once they are set up, they're great. And they are typically built in a more rugged fashion to handle the inevitable bumps and scraps that happen when gigging. Now, when I get older or if I get injured that may all change. Weight may be the major deciding factor for me.
@@darrickkeels6387 Interesting feedback. I agree that DAWs make most things that these workstations do a whole lot easier to accomplish. I will admit that even though I still have a MPC and workstations, I typically find production easier with DAWs and VSTs. I love the timing and "feel" I get with hardware, but software is definitely faster a lot of times.
I think that manufacturers are heading in the right direction by making their boards have DAW integration. As much as I enjoy hardware, I don't enjoy having to do multiple passes when tracking out, etc. I have not really touched my Kronos's sequencer for the most part. I have used my Motif XS's sequencer a little here and there. Years ago, I kind of started to go more hybrid with hardware midi'd to software via midi clock/time code. I see the newer generation keyboards simplifying this with built in DAW integration.
So are you giving the Kronos any gigging love? I see a few channels where they get deep into the Kronos. It is definitely a deep board, and I think most are barely scratching the surface on it.
@@jp4751 Yup, I still gig with the Kronos for sure. Actually quite a bit. It's a very deep board for sure and nerds like me go very deep into the board unlocking what it has to offer and spend hours upon hours reading the 1170 page manual. Others do it out of necessity because of something they need to accomplish musically. However, many only scratch the surface because it's far from user friendly. In fact it is downright hard. Programming strings patches using the STR-1 sound engine to create a "plucked" string sound and have it sound realistic is a major chore. Or really designing unique synth sounds with the AL-1 sound engine complete with arps and custom mapped controls really requires some high level background knowledge in subtractive synthesis and a thorough understanding of how sound works to really take advantage of the synth engine. I can tell the processes were certainly developed by people with a sound design engineering mindset. It doesn't help that Korg has virtually no tutorials that really dive deep into their keyboards. Basic stuff like layering sounds or assigning effects sure. But nothing that really plunges deep into KARMA or their 6-operator "FM" synthesis sound engine. So it's easier to just pull up a realistic string patch using a VST or finding an amazing guitar sound using the Montage rather than spending hours trying to get the attack and decay ratios right for a realistic guitar patch that will produce fret noise at the right time and volume by using the STR-1 engine to create from scratch. I believe because of the mind-blowing results that can be achieved using VSTs without such a high degree of difficulty, hardware manufacturers will have to create more user friendly platforms. Even if it means sacrificing "power" to do it. What good is "power" buried deep inside of a sound engine that no one really knows how to use?
@@darrickkeels6387 All this is is going to give me some good ole G.A.S!
@@jp4751 😄😄😄
Great video, problem is fantom 6/7/8 is not available. Retailers will sell you one but they are not able to give you any idea when they can deliver. Japanese keyboard produced in Taiwan w Chinese parts, supply chain has stopped production of big fantom. Unless your willing to wait forever buy the 0 and upgrade when roland gets it together on flagship
Love your videos. Can you use a stylus on the Fantom 0s screen?
Yes
I’m new to all this stuff, but is it possible to load a vst like Keyscape, Pianoteq, Alicia’s Keys, Noire, etc.. on the Fantom or any other keyboard so that you don’t need a computer to use them? Or are you restricted to only being able to load the proprietary samples from the same manufacturer, so with Roland they can only add stuff that’s on Roland Cloud, the S88 Mk2 can only add Komplete stuff like Noire/Alicia’s Keys? Or does the cross compatibility vary across the manufacturers?
I’m in the market for some kind of keyboard to learn piano but want it to feel as authentic to a real piano as possible while still having as many features as possible to grow into.
I’ll probably wait till NAMM 2022 to see if anything is announced so I don’t regret my purchase now.
At the moment I’m leaning towards the S88 Mk2, and maybe get a bigger package of Komplete when it goes on sale, or adding a Komplete control interface if I find I need the bells and whistles Fantom offers.
But ideally I’d want a Kawai VPC1 or MP11SE with those features for the keybed.
Wish Kawai made a more powerful workstation like the Fantom or licensed their keybed to another manufacturer like Nord did with their Grand. Kinda what I’m hoping for out of NAMM 2022 but doubt it. Also like to see a VPC2 come out.
Anyway $1100 for the S88 Mk2 seems a good entry level as professionals use it too.
Certainly not possible on the Fantom 0. The Fantom 0 has a mere 256 megs, just 1/4 that of the competition, the MODX. The Fantom 0 has just 1/8th that of the regular Fantom. But keep in mind the regular Fantom is more than twice the price, and more than double the weight. The regular Fantom does include the V-piano which uses modeled pianos that are likely pretty good, probably a bit below those you mentioned, but still a lot better than most keyboards, including Fantom 0.
You can load some pretty large piano samples into the MODX, but keep in mind that it will take up a good chunk of your free sample memory. If pianos are important enough to you, and you can live without needing to load in a bunch of other sounds, that may be a solution. Still not on the level of some of the VST's you mentioned, but well ahead of most hardware keyboards.
Winner for me: MODX + VST's, including Roland's which give me most of the fantom sounds and engines. Most sounds for the Fantom 0 can be loaded right in with Roland's VST solutions.
Yoiu can't load VSTs directly on the Fantom. You can use it as a MIDI controller for your PC, but you'll still need to run the VST there, not natively on the Fantom. The Fantoms do support special plugout expansions from Roland, but not regular VSTs.
@@geoffk777 I thought people were saying it could do that?
Even less useful then. I'm running lots of VST's, but not with anything that can intergrated in any way with the Fantom 0 any more than my MODX. Actually less since I also run iOS with my MODX in addition to PC based VST's.
After making a beat in the fantom can I export the stems so I can import them into my daw session ? The mc 707 does not allow me to do this
You cannot export them by putting them on a thumb drive. But it can send audio over USB. You get a total of 32 (16 Stereo) outs via the digital connection. So all you have to do is hit record in your DAW and "play" on your Fantom and all of the audio will be captured on separate tracks in your DAW.
@@darrickkeels6387lol yeah , that, I have been trying to figure out how to do that on my mc 707 , no videos showing how to do it with pro tools on youtube 😭😭😭
Thanks very much for all this information. I have had a Roland Fao8 for several years and wonder is it worth my whole changing to a Fantom o8. I’m v happy with the FA and I can’t see any massive difference between the two as far as playing in a band is concerned. What do you think?
If you are happy with the FA keep it. There is no reason to "upgrade" to something new just because it's new. The Supernatual pianos have lots of editing parameters like string and damper resonance, hammer noise etc. These parameters are not in the Fantom-0 series at the moment. The FA has a linear sequencer. The Fantoms do not. So if you're happy just keep using the FA
Thanks for your prompt reply, it’ll please my wife!
Great video. For the price there is really no excuse for not including combo jacks for the mic and line inputs on the 0 series imo.
Excellent informative video. If I could add something, the video mentions (23:43) that Fantom and Fantom 0 can sustain 16 and 8 ‘sounds’ (instruments), respectively, versus Montage and MODX (+) can “only” sustain 8 and 4 instruments, respectively when switching from one performance (multi-instruments) to another -- seamless sound switching (SSS) in Yamaha’s terms. In such a comparison, it is probably worth highlighting that Yamaha sounds contain double the number of elements/partials compared to Roland (at least compared to the Z-core engine-08 RM p18); technically, in many scenarios, both brands can have a similar level of SSS when we look at the number of elements/partials-Yamaha uses processing power to give sound power on a single instrument. In contrast, Fantom uses it to provide a more accessible, flexible SSS. With enough programming, some limitations can be overcome in each approach. I do not have these keyboards; I am just theorizing here… someone can correct these comments as needed.
Thanks I like your discussion comparing keyboards with emphasis on features and functions. I’d really like to see your comparison of Roland O vs Kurtzweil PC4. How are layers created and stored on each and how does organ work in a layer if sliders are used as drawbars?
Thank you for your intensive explanation on these 2 Fantoms, Derrick. Cheers!
Thanks for going so far in depth, this is very helpful!
Thanks for watching!
Fantastic video, full of everything you need to know!!
Great video mate! Really appreciate your work in comparing the two models in such detailed manner. I've got two questions that I would like to hear from you. As you've mentioned, albeit from being smaller in size, the screen on Fantom-0 has a higher resolution than that on the Fantom, so I wonder if the two models uses the same GUI, or the Fantom-0 can display more things on the screen? My second question is related to the Keybed. I'm considering the 88 key version and is really impressed by the weight of the Fantom-0 series. But my concern is whether the plastic build can bear the weight of the hammer action keys. This concern comes from my MODX8 which is also built in plastic. The whole body kinda like crackles in playing, making noises, which is really an annoying experience. If that's also the case with Fantom-0, then I think I'll either go for the Fantom-06 or consider a second-hand Fantom8.
The GUI is identical on both Fantoms. As far as the 88 weighted keybed, Roland gives you the PHA-4. That keybed used to be Roland's premium keybed until they came out with the PHA-50 which is on the RD-2000 and the new Fantom. So the keybed is actually a good keybed.
A little off topic, but what is your opinion of the keyboard action on the Fantom 8 as opposed to the 6 & 7? I am gravitating toward the 8 but the practical matter is I don't quite have the space for it, plus it weighs 22 lbs. more. A 7 would physically fit better for me. I want more keys than the 6 offers. I have a Roland A90-EX with 88 keys and enjoy that action. In my head I like a board with the maximum number of keys but over the years I noticed that I rarely-- as in close to never-- play anything at the extreme ends of the register. Thank you in advance for your response.
Well the actions are completely different. The Fantom 8 has the PHA-50 action which a premium graded hammer action with escapement. The Fantom 7 is a premium semi-weighted synth action keyboard. It's light but firm and responsive action. But if you already have an 88 keyboard action you like then the Fantom 7 makes sense. I have the 7 because I already own the RD-2000. When I need the weighted action I play that one. Oftentimes connected to the Fantom-7. But on a lot of gigs I take the 7 because I don't need the extra keys or weight.
Just what I needed to know; thanks again! I have held on to my very functional Kurzweil PC 88, because of the superior action it has. How do the Fantom-O, and the Fantom, both 88s compare, I know action is subject to everyone's own taste, but I would like to hear your thoughts.
The Fantom would be comparable but not so much the Fantom-0. The PHA-4 Standard actions definitely feels like a "budget" keybed. Though it doesn't feel "bad." But I think more than likely the Fantom-0 will feel like a budget keyboard considering your frame of reference is a PC88
Thanks Derrick, for your videos, I Watch them a lot. Its Great. I have the modx. It would be great with the fantom 08 workflows, and the sound from Yamaha modx.
That was super helpful and complete. Thanks for the breakdown!
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it
I have one important question, does the Fantom-08 have the sounds from the FA08?
I'm planning on buying the Famtom-08 and I would need some of the sounds (Super Natural, PCMS and PCMD)
This is an outstanding comparison of the two Roland Fantom keyboards and Darrick also gives a very astute summary of some of the ways the Yamaha MODX7 compares with the Fantom boards. I purchased the MODX7 (months before seeing this video by Darrick) and I discovered the same differences he mentioned. I DO like some of the sounds on the Yamaha product better than the Roland Fantom but the V piano is just so much better than Yamaha's best piano that to me, there's no question that the Roland Fantom is the better choice of those two. (I returned the Yamaha MODX7 and purchased the Fantom 7. Twice the money but many times better.) I also want to thank Darrick (if he happens to read this) for his very comprehensive reviews and work here on RUclips. I've realized I can absolutely count on Darrick Keels for great information regardless of what product or feature(s) he is discussing.
Some questions
Thoughts
You’ve touched on these topics …I wanted to re iterate express my personal opinion.
I would love to have answered from
These are major components missing for music creators…
Roland: Why only 64 measures? When the MODX has 256, and is older.
Why no linear sequencer?
Why only 256mb s sample time? In 2022
Yamaha: Why no midi note editor/ Piano roll when Roland has it and Yamaha used to have it on the previous workstation?
However, I will say that technology on how to create ideas much faster on the newer keyboards but some folks like more creative control even if takes a longer route. I feel that companies like Roland must’ve thought that this younger generation of music creators(( loop/ sample)) beat makers are more dominant than older segmented population that use to create music much more the linear based musicians like myself.
Cost? Lack of demand? / Didn’t think it was relevant, in today’s younger music creators?
It’s intriguing to say the least.
I bought the 1st Motif Classic back in 2001 or 2002, & that keyboard was amazing with what it was at the & we didn’t have those kinds of questions about key components being left off, well, at least I didn’t have those concerns.
The Motif had sampling, linear sequencer & midi note editor / piano roll. And back then that flagship keyboard was priced at around $2199….versus nowadays a flagship will cost $3400 & minus those key components.
It would be awesome if companies like Yamaha & Roland etc., would explain why they left off certain features. You cannot convince me they didn’t realize that there would a multitude of musicians & beat makers who would question / or have some pushback about the lack of key components of these new keyboards.
I think their market research is showing that people are now using DAWs and not workstations for production. Time will tell if they are indeed making the right move. It is clear to me that Roland was not trying to make a "super workstation." When it launched it only had two time signatures available in the sequencer. When you look up the Fantom on Roland's website underneath the product it says "Synthesizer" not workstation. This is a deliberate marketing choice. Roland has been hard at work developing a whole online VST subscription based platform because that's where they think the future lies. Companies make decisions today that will pay off in 20 years. If Roland can become a strong brand name to the young they will have loyal customers for the next 30 years. Kurzweil does not have a strong name with the younger generation, and their keyboards are disappearing on stages and in churches all over the US. The Fantom-0 actually ships with Ableton Live Lite. So clearly Roland was not really looking to make a "standalone" machine. Now it can be used as such but it will mean making some major sacrifices. But Roland has been around a long time. They survived when analog went out and digital was the "new thing." Many companies that stuck to making analog gear went out of business. They survived as workstations became in vogue. Ensoniq...died. Now VSTs and DAWs are what "everyone" is using and Roland is looking to survive another technological shift. We'll see how it all plays out.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks, for your response Darrick..
The market is definitely shifting towards the new generation of Beat makers & Musicians…
Thank you very very very much for comparing the two models. Thanks to you, I can buy the Fantom 7 knowing why. More power, more sounds and a better quality finish. In addition, the Fantom 7 has the possibility of evolving with the EX update.
Absolutely fantastic review! Super helpful.
Darrick, if given one choice for putting all of your 16 tracks together on one device for music production…out of the Akai MPC One or the Fantom, which would you choose? Main advantages of the one selected?
Thank you
JC
If you are asking which sequencer I would use it is the MPC for sure. The MPC has both linear and pattern recording. You can record 999 measures per sequence. At 120 bpm, I believe that's a 33 minute song. It gives you 128 MIDI channels as opposed to 16. 8 tracks of audio. But you can use the MIDI tracks to contain audio. Each track can contain up to 4 insert effects vs 1 insert on the Fantom. The sampler simply works much much better. I mean it is a sampler lol! So it has timestretching and a auto multisampling mode make the tedious task multisampling much easier. Cutting, splicing, reversing and all sample manipulation is quite simply better. That's a bit unfair though because that's what the MPC is. It's a sampler and MIDI production unit. It does not have great Grand Piano sounds, realistic EP's, tons of deep synth editing parameters because it isn't a synthesizer. I personally think the sampling was a bit of an afterthought with the Fantom. It has a sampler but it's pretty bare bones. The fact that multisamples and expansion packs share the same memory seems to point to that fact. The sequencer is nice for a pattern sequencer. It has a nice UI but without an option for linear sequencing or real audio tracks, I find it to be a bit anemic.
@@darrickkeels6387🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽… ask for $1 dollar & you bless them with a $100 :) Yoiu are an amazing human …God has blessed you indeed brother 👋🏾
Thank you for the the very in depth response:)
What part of the US are you from? I’m in San Diego but originally from NC State.
@@thegoldenamerican Seattle, Washington
I was waiting for this movie to come out. 😃 I am so tempted to trade in my Juno DS88 but then I lose my 88 keys. I thought about getting rid of my Juno and Nektar T6 for the 07 and an 88 key midi controller. Having this and an Arturia Keylab midi controller probably would be killer combo. So much to think about. I have not played a real grand piano in years until this week when I played at a funeral. It felt like a toy because I’ve been playing the Roland DS88 keybed so long. I kind of appreciate that heavy action a little more now.
Does your current setup lack something that you need?
@@darrickkeels6387 I have everything I need basically but don’t really have a work flow that I like. I’m kinda like a one man band deal. I save songs in my Juno with beats but I can’t trust the tempo on the beat will be correct when I switch songs. I think it has a programming bug or I didn’t do something right when I saved them. I like having the drawbar organ also when blending sounds. I need to really learn my keyboard. I like how Korg has the touch screen and can save songs in sets by titles. It’s hard for me to spend over 2K on a keyboard and that is pushing it. Not many keyboards have what I want in a keyboard. Audio midi interface with faders, drum beats, zoning and sampling. The Korg pax is my dream keyboard but too expensive. The fantom, kurzweil, and Kronos come close to that.
@@GospelMusic4Life It is really hard these days to get all of that out of one keyboard these days. The Fantoms have a sampler but it doesn't compare to a dedicated sampler like the MPC Live II. They an included rhythm section with prerecorded drum loops but it's not going to be as robust as what you find on an arranger or even the Kronos. But the Kronos doesn't have a very good audio interface, 2 in 2 out. The Nautilus offers a full featured sampler but the workflow is a unintuitive to many, not to mention it has no faders. You can always add faders via a MIDI controller but you can technically do that with virtually any of the modern keyboards. It took me many years to really develop a workflow that I am happy with. And honestly I was not able to find it in one keyboard. Over the years, I've added the pieces that I need. As my needs change so does my setup. But I at least know what I am looking for.
Very good comparison and explanation, Good Job!
Are this Fantom 07 more like a computer with VST's inside? Not like a real Workstation like Ensoniq's or Kurzweil from nineties? Thank you.
Well...it isn't a PC or MAC inside running VSTs. But it has proprietary software that runs on a Linux platform. However, it's not like the Ensoniq EPS Plus I owned decades ago. If that is a "real workstation" to you and modern workstations are fake, you may want to pick up the Ensoniq, which you can get for around $500 today. However for me 1MB of sample memory equating to only 11 seconds of sample time, storing a bunch of floppy disks, only two filters on the synthesizer side of things, 20-voice polyphony, and virtually zero compatability with any modern computer, would make it nothing more than a paperweight in my studio today. I'd take any workstation today over any workstation produced and or sold through the 90's. I don't have an infatuation with vintage gear in the digital space. And if you visit virtually any major modern studio today or big time touring grammy award winning musicians, neither do they.
Thanks for doing this… hopefully Roland is giving you some good $ …if not they should be… This video and your earlier response helped me in deciding on which model is the best of what I need to finish my projects. I’m definitely getting the Big Fantom….I also have the MODX.. ,being that I can only record 10 tracks at a time…& ( you are so correct) about the cheap build quality, made me interested in getting the Fantom.
I record from my MODX directly to my iPhone. Tons of memory that way. Not sure it's the same as what your doing, but if you have an iPhone or iPad, check into that.
The MODX also integrates well with Cubase, one of the leading multi-track software recording packages, and you can also host VST's with it. Fantom may integrate well with Mainstage, Ablton, etc. The Montage & MODX integrate with other software packages well, and also iOS advantages over Fantom. I suppose it all depends on your preference. It's not to say one is better than the other.
I tend to think Darrick's reviews are not sponsored as he owns keyboards from Yamaha, Korg & Roland like I do, and that like me, he doesn't favor one company over another but simply chooses what he likes best. I'm not anymore a Yamaha fan than a Korg or Roland fan, but at the moment I like Yamaha's current flagship & spin off products best. Korg's the one I would expect most likely could change my mind with future new products, but we'll see. Not a fan of the Nautilus limits over it's big brother, it's pricing or it's weight.
@@classicarcadeamusementpark4242 Classic are you using GarageBand on your iPhone or iPad to do tracking? I’m not sure what you are referring…
Thanks
@@thegoldenamerican It should work on anything, but at the moment I'm actually using the tape recorder feature (Voice Memos) to record my practices when I'm learning a song. It makes a direct digital recording. I can then text out my part to band members so they can hear what I'm doing and more easily decide what their parts should be.
Superb comparison review Darrick. Very helpful for me to consider these vs. my current MODX6 / Montage users. Must admit the 0-Series does appear to be better VFM than my MODX and of better overall quality. Let’s see!!! ….. 😎👌🎹🎵🇬🇧🍻
If a person already owns a MODX I don't personally think acquiring the Fantom-0 is a necessity for most. But if I were personally looking for a keyboard today to integrate into a studio and play live, I'd pick the Fantom-0 over the MODX.
@@darrickkeels6387 Okay, good call there I think Darrick
Thank you very much, Darrick! This video and the shorter "V-Piano" one were highly instrumental (pun accepted) in making me choose. It was quite a battle, though, as I was prepared to pay for "full power". - I have just ordered the Fantom-08.
On Aftertouch:
If I remember my sources correctly, you state in this video that the "-0" models don't feature Aftertouch, and in the shorter video that applying Aftertouch in the "big" Fantom models requires considerable key pressure.
According to the "-0" manual, these models can /receive/ both Channel and Polyphonic Aftertouch, and both Pedals (apparently not the Hold one) can be set to Aftertouch. (Channel Aftertouch, I assume.) So, using an expression pedal, one should be able to /transmit/ Aftertouch from the "keyboard department" of the device, rather than from the "keyboard proper". - I have ordered an RPU-3 pedal with my Fantom.
Indeed. Aftertouch can be received from a keyboard with aftertouch or you can you another modulation method. I personally use modulation wheels and pedals more than I use aftertouch, so it isn't a deal breaker for me.
I would get the Fantom. But it would be nice if they had the higher resolution screen in it as well.
The Fantom's screen actually looks good though. Not to mention it is more responsive than the Kronos, Nautilus, MODX and Montage.
A very revealing & comprehensive video...much appreciated( Roland would never be so candid with their info.) Do you plan on making any in-depth tutorials regarding the sequencer? I've transitioned from Korg & the learning curve is insane. For instance, I created a bunch of patterns & I want to move them over to the group section( but since all of my pattern clips are highlighted from listening to them...I cannot un-highlight the ones I want to arrange into a specific grouping.) There's so much I have yet to learn and I've been stuck on this silly sh*t for a week. At this point, I don't know whether or not I want to keep my Fantom 06(as thus far, the recording aspect is very tedious & frustrating(as the whole 3-step recording process is ridiculous....pattern/group/song.) That said, I could really use some insight into this sequencing process soon(rather than waiting a year for Ed Diaz to get around to doing it), before my 45-day return policy expires.
I may have some tutorials coming!
@@darrickkeels6387 Thank you.
Great comparison video! Helped me decide to get the Fantom 6 vs the 06.
Thank you for watching
Waiting for your comparison between Fantom O and new MPC Key61
It's coming lol! Probably not next. But it is coming
Brilliant video. Thanks a lot!
I have the 08 and the G8 you think them linked together would equal what the 8 does or more ?
Great video.. An excellent produced in-depth review. I'm looking for a properly weighted keyboard and midi controller anyway as I'm not convinced that my modx-8 isn't really capable of being a midi controller.
I must subscribe. You bring high value tech content to the subject. You bring actual working models of the workstations. You do more than chatter on features but go forward with the benefits of each feature. Where do we download your music? Bonus points if you enjoy Gospel.
I do enjoy gospel music. I don’t have music for downloading currently. When I write music normally I give it to an artist and or another producer. Now, I will collect the royalties lol but it is not my “playing” or singing that you will hear on an album. Most of the time however, what I make are backing tracks for singers. Those however are not my songs. Hence you never really hear music I produce on the channel because I want to avoid copyright strikes. Thanks for watching!
@@darrickkeels6387 You have talent and drive. I enjoy your videos. Make some music and please make it available to the slow like me.
Thank you! I now feel that I can recommend the ‘O’ to friends who admire my Fantom 7 but don’t have it in their budget.
Thank you for the video, i now know more and it is easier to decide.
I’m thinking about selling my MODX8 (actually it’s posted on reverb atm) I was thinking about getting the FA-07 (actually purchased but haven’t shipped yet so I can still cancel) I want a synth that can sample and has a sequencer. But thinking about just using my MPC live 2 with a dedicated synth desktop like the novation peak. Thoughts?
If sequencing and sampling are what you are after, I would definitely go the MPC route. The sequencers and samplers on Roland’s products are limited. They do not come close to what a MPC is capable of.
Great video Darrick! You should share the secret of how you get these boards so quickly and have time to go through them and compare them. 😅
😄😄. Playing in church is much of the "secret." Because I am constantly using my keyboards to create backing tracks, at rehearsal, and often multiple services, I run a keyboard through its paces pretty quickly. After one month I may have used the keyboard out in 15-20 live scenarios when counting rehearsals, church services and band gigs. I'm also just kind of a tech nerd. Always interested in the internal workings the equipment. I enjoy that as much as playing honestly. So I spend quite a bit of time in manuals and researching stuff, even stuff I do not own. For example I've gone through much of manuals for the Korg Nautilus and Kurzweil K2700 even though I don't own those keyboards. I don't really aquire gear quickly though. I typically let products mature before purchasing. I waited years to get the Kronos 2, Montage, MODX, Fantom, etc. I got the Fantom-0 quickly because the Fantom has already "matured" to some extent. But normally, I wait and watch. Then when I do purchase it, I have it typically at least three months before posting a review. Everything is "cool" when it is new. Lol!
@@darrickkeels6387 Church would definitely get you up to speed with a keyboard in less than 5 minutes (speaking from experience, lol).
Darrick, does the V-Piano sound good? I'm trying to see if it's omission on the Fantom-0 is something crucial or not (considering V-Piano is tech from 2010 and we both agree that the SN pianos are not that great).
I want to say the best traditional pair is a Yamaha and Roland (compliment each other well) but I'm starting to think a Nord 6D and either the Yamaha or Roland will do well (but there's Zenology on the computer so maybe the Yamaha?)
@@tonylancer7367 In my opinion the V-Piano does sound good. I think all of the high end keyboards sound good. I find that when Cory Henry plays a Roland it sounds good. When he plays Yamaha or Korg I think, "Man that sounds good!" However, personally I find the sound of the Nord's acoustic pianos to sound the best. My second choice would be Yamaha, then Korg and THEN Roland. The benefit of having the V-Piano sound engine for me is the polyphony. When I stack sounds on top of the V-Piano I am far less likely to experience notes dropping out because it is a separate engine with a "full" polyphony that isn't reliant on the Zencore 256 voices. But the Nord also has 3 separate sound engines as well. The piano is not using the same voices as the synth section with Pads, Strings, Horns etc. So in my personal opinion Nord wins the acoustic piano battle. Roland's main strengths to me are in the synth sounds not their acoustic pianos. But if it is all I had, it would do the job.
@@darrickkeels6387 Cory Henry is one heck of a player, he could make a Casio sound good!
Everytime the V-Piano is mentioned, I don't know how to feel because modelling a complex instrument like a piano is difficult, but Pianoteq has some *REALLY* good piano sounds that make me wonder if V-Piano is on that level. Probably not, but hey, unlimited polyphony.
@@tonylancer7367 Yeah...no...I don't think it is up there with Pianoteq lol! But the reality is in a mix a lot of the fine details we listen to during critical listening sessions actually gets lost. If you take some of your favorite songs professionally produced and are able to mute every track but the piano, often the piano by itself does not sound good or "realistic." Unless of course it's like ballad of some sort with minimal instruments i.e a piano and vocal. In reality if you had a real Steinway Grand Piano playing with a guitar, organ, bass, drums, horns, and synths, the Steinway would get lost in the mix with an amateur running sound. But there is no better sound than the real thing right? However, playing music that has more of a Pop style, real pianos don't always fit the best. There are times when the presets in my RD-2000 sound better than the Nord. It all depends on the song, and more importantly the mix.
Hey Derrick, I have a question for you. On the APSN01 (SuperNatural Acoustic Piano 1) expansion, several of the sounds are screwed up for me. For example Concert Grand", "Bright Concert Grand" and "Recording Grand". There is a weird modulated noise that rises in pitch and modulation frequency as you go up the keyboard. It's loud even when the piano is silent. Other sounds and even some other APSN01 pianos are Ok. Does this happen to you?
Hey Jeff I tried the Concert Grand, Bright Concert and Recording Grand and I could not hear any modulated noise rising in pitch. It tried with no reverb, no sustain, with sustain, with reverb and I could not hear anything out of the ordinary. I listened in two pairs of headphones and two different sets of studio monitors. Has this problem always been there for you?
@@darrickkeels6387 Yeah, I think so. I have an audio demo that I sent to Roland support, but I can't attach it here. It's weird. Fortunately, everything else works fine and I don't use those pianos anyway, but problems on an expensive new board scare me. Thanks for the quick reply.
@@geoffk777 Yup. I happened to be in the studio recording when I saw your comment.
@@darrickkeels6387 Hey Derrick. Thanks for your help in diagnosing this. Roland support eventually decided that my first Fantom was defective and sent me a new one today. The SN pianos on the new one all sound fine. But they're not that impressive, so I'll keep using the V-pianos. It's still a relief to get the problem resolved.
Great video! Too bad the “NZyme “ expansion is t available for the “0 “ series .
I wish I would have watched this video before I bought the MODX6+. I just sent the MODX6+ back today and ordered the Fantom-06. The features on the Fantom-06 just blow the MODX+ away! I watched some videos on the Fantom sequencer and it's really impressive! I agree this Fantom-0 is the best option! Thank you for making this!
what do you think of the Fantom06 keybed compared to the MODX6+ ?
@@docteurgreene since there is no after touch, IMO, they're about the same. The keys are different materials, of course, but both felt solid, good build. Opinions will differ bit that what I think. I should add that the sequencer on the 06 is really good, where the MODX sequencer is extremely limited with no visuals to edit and only 8 measures. I also think the filters on the 06 sound better.
Thank you! Very good comparison. The 0 series is nice if youre on a budget. But if you want the synth engines and the V-Piano the big one it is. That is not a small part missing on the 0. It is quite a bit that is missing. That is a deal breaker for me. Because I want all the sounds. I own a MODX and I did get all the sounds of the Montage. Yes with less control. But that does not matter for me. I work in a DAW anyway.
Same for me. I had to decide between the modx and a fantom O... Now this is just my opinion, but the MODX is much closer to the montage than the fantom 0 is to the fantom. the modx and montage engines are exactly the same. the only cut between the engines is the polyphony on the fmx engine. 64 on the modx and 128 on the montage. other than that its just output options and shortcut keys, aftertouch, (which can be worked around if you plug in a controller that has aftertouch into the modx as the modx will still accept aftertouch, just not directly on its own keybed. I also noticed alot of the sounds in the fantom O are from the xv5080. it seems engine wise more was cut on the fantom O compared to the montage and modx and the pure analogue circuit in the montage doesnt even come into play if you are recording into a daw through usb. only on the analogue outputs if you are running it into another interface. I can get roland cloud and basically have all that the fantom O offers sound wise. It seems more like the Fantom O is more of an upgraded FA than a lighter weight fantom. I ultimately went with the MODX and will use roland cloud for any roland sounds i want. I felt this was the best route... for me at least. with roland cloud you can still get access to all the sounds, other than the supernatural ones. Theres no way to get access to the montages or MODX's FMX engines power and sounds unless you actually have one of them. Then you also have the fact that the acoustic sounds on the modx and montage imo are far supperior to rolands. for the best of both worlds, and the cheapest route and the most power to me it seems, go with roland cloud, and get a montage/modx if you have to choose.
From a tech perspective, modx+ is a phenomenal board. It really covers a vast amount of ground. What I remind people to consider, is where a board sits. Live --- the -0 is a crippled main board (08) and not the most optimum top (06/07). It's keybed is so/so. Better to a degree than the modx but thats way less noticable (vs feature set) when it isn't used as a primary keybed. I'd never use the 08's of the budget tier for this reason. Too much redundancy. If I want a heavy action/ 'true feel' - use a flagship. Thats even more pertinent at home/studio.
So helpful you put this video together, thank you
You said that you would choose the Fantom O over modx. Does that still hold true against the modx plus?
Yes it does. I like the DAW integration with Ableton, more knobs, sliders and buttons for live use. The Fantom-0 has both a joystick and knobs. The audio interface is better in the Fantom-0 giving you 16 simultaneous outs as opposed to 10 on the MODX plus. And I can actually gave 16 sounds in a performance vs just 8 on the MODX+. And in the MODX some of the pianos take up 4 of your 8 available channels leaving you with far less complex layering options. On the Fantom-0 any instrument you pick only uses one channel.
You have clear most of my queries but I still have two......if you could answer......does it mean that synth model expansions like JP 8 SH 101 etc will also take space within l the 256 mb memory of Fantom O and How many expansions can be loaded to the Fantom O at once out of 15 expansions available at Axial website?
Yes the legendary expansion packs like the Jupiter 8 and SH-101 would use up some of the available 256mb. When it ships it comes loaded with Supernatural Acoustic Pianos, Supernatual EP's, and Supernatual Acoustic expansion packs. Those are taking up some of the 256mb as well. Different expansion take up different amounts of room. The "Legendary Expansion" like the Jupiter 8, SH-101, Juno106, and JX-3P do not take up that much room. You can probably get about 6-8 expansions in total. I have not actually maxed it out.
@@darrickkeels6387 okay tnx dear ......
At 38:00 you say the modx has different internals than the montage so the sound differs more than with the fantom 0 / big fantom. I thought the main difference was the same in both brands: the analog filters. When you say the zencore sound is the same in both fantom keyboards you mean the analog filters in the big fantom doesn’t represent a difference in sound quality? If i tweak the cutoff in the fantom-0 it sounds as the cutoff filter of the big fantom?
Awe man! I went over that too fast. You are absolutely correct. Because the Fantom has an analog filter it will sound different than the Fantom-0 on the sounds in which the analog filter applies because the Fantom-0 has no analog filter. If however are playing 0001 Classic Piano on either keyboard they will indeed sound the same. Or if you are playing the virtual tonewheel organ, or some of the Supernatual EP's, they will sound identical. Now if you are pulling up a wicked lead synth sound and tweaking the cutoff using the analog filter you will certainly hear a difference. On the Montage and MODX the D/A converters are different. So technically every sound will be different coming out of the analog outputs. So in a side by side comparison you can certainly hear a difference. Not much but it's indeed there. Not to mention the MODX has unbalanced outs while the Montage's analog outs are balanced. But but to your point, yes the analog filter makes a difference on the Fantom. 🤦♂️ I really should have covered that in depth because it's a major feature...sigh.
@@darrickkeels6387 thank you very much for your detailed answer! I bought the modx a month and 11 days before the fantom 0 announcement and the seller was very kind and accepted my proposition to return it and buy the fantom 0 instead. Im new to such powerful synths and i didnt know exactly what i was trading. You helped me a lot with this video and with the references to the modx and with your explanation in the answer. Not to mention all your previous videos… Im glad ive been able to acquire the “best value for the money keyboard in this segment today”… i was looking forward to know your opinion about the fantom 0 and you reinforced my buying decision :)
@@JC-Zoso You have a very powerful keyboard in the Fantom 0 and the fact that Roland is constantly adding new sounds and features means it will only get better with time!
The Fantom’s analog filter is a stereo Scene effect stage. The patch filters are not analog.
The analog filter in the big fantom is a single stereo analog filter that can be applied to a zone like an MFX or an incoming audio signal. So unless the scene specifically uses that feature on a zone, it is separate from the regular sound design, which uses digital filters.
Love my brand new Fantom06.
It works for me as a gigging Las Vegas Dj.
I also own a Roland D-50, D-70, Yamaha DX7 and a Krog Wavestation Ex.