These Maxwell Caps are used in so many heavy usage situations, ie: buses, trains, elevators, cars, regen braking, Solar , etc. they are very useful for many heavy load uses and to assist batteries from taking the bulk of starting grunt/inverters, etc. id like to see some experiments with caps used in series on the solar panel side of the controller to see if it improves overall solar power intake with partially shaded conditions. Cheers. Good vid
I do not think the principle applies for panels. You may benefit from the lower resistance of a capacitor but, overall any energy the panels are able to garner will be put through the MPPT to your storage battery as designed. I think where this shines is taking stress off the battery itself for large startup amp loads, as most things draw 15-30% above rated current to start
Hi Ian, So if i need 24V starter battery for a 2000 Toyota Coaster 1HZ diesel engine (normally two 12v leads in series) could it have two these in series?
my question is how long will it continually crank if the engine doesn't start right away? For example when its -30degree C out side and the diesel does not want to start right away. I have had to crank MY tdi for as long as 30 seconds before it even thinks about firing and sputtering.
For clarification, if the capacitor sits between the alternator and the lithium, how does the lithium battery charge up again, does the capacitor put charge back into the lithium battery.
The capacitor doesn't actually "sit between" the alternator and the capacitors (well not as shown anyway) The alternator will charge the battery once the caps voltage exceeds the battery's voltage. So it is entirely possible that the battery is getting charged in excess of 50amps. Technically the battery may sit close to 14.5V, which is the max alternator voltage, so the charge current could be low. Short version? It does work IF the battery stays at a high voltage, any other instance and that battery will be damaged, or have the BMS cut in.
12volts x 1900amps=22800 watts but i think he is full of crap about the cranking amps. Maybe 12volt x 1000 cranking ampere =12,000 watt is more realistic. I say this because the Lithium battery and capacitor voltage is parallel and the capacitor is known to self discharge pretty quickly.. If you was to create a capacitor bank to replace the car battery alone it would be flat in 4-5days. This means the self discharge of the capacitor is made to balance the voltage between the cap and the LI battery thus losses voltage over time. Another concern is if anything goes wrong in this design lets say a cap goes bad the series chain of the cap is broken and the Lithium battery tries to balance itself with the series of capacitors and you have yourself a nice little vehicle fire. Charge control is another issue if you seen the LI battery is marked 12 volts and that will not work because the automotive alternator would over charge the unit with a +-14.2volt output the lithium battery would be cooked. That means they built the lithium cell not at 12volt because 3 series cells of 4.2volts is 12.6 and would be overcharged so would need to have 4series'd cells at 16.8volts total and work in the window of what a control system is set to lets say 3.6v x 4= 14.4volts nominal voltage the discharge and charge controls need to be perfectly designed to high and vehicle circuits are damaged or dont work properly and below 3.5volts per cell the lithium battery can be damaged. It is a very fine line to walk and exactly why we dont have lithium car batteries.
I guess yes because there is a BMS under the blue plastic film. So pro: it works a lot of times in a row But Cons: you can not leave your car without charging from the alternator during medium to long time.
Bought one today, unlike the other FPV lithium batteries that came with a charger, this cranking one does not have one. And I was told it can be charged by a normal battery charger, is it true? Will it affect its life?
Very impressive performance! Can you advise (or post links) how to size such a capacitor arrangement? My 120v fridge draws 1.5 amp (so about 180 w). Starting inrush drops 12v batteries to about 11v and alarms or trips the 1Kw (modified sq. wave) inverter, then batteries (nominal 200 Ah) return to full voltage. Wondering if there'd be enough capacitance to start the fridge adequately, or would I need more? Thanks
How can the capacitors dump high current starter current (maybe up to 200A) through such skinny wires TO THE BATTERY when cranking? If the caps can give some rated 1900A maximum output @16v, how the hell can it discharge that through skinny wires?
hmm i think an issue would be that these super caps are not balanced. 24v stuff tends to be expensive also... and I think a lead acid battery in series with a super cap kit would nullify a lot of the economy benefits coz of how internal resistance works. dont know for sure though. I wonder if you eventually tried this?
No. When you put things in series like this you are limited by the least powerful/smallest capacity cell. So you'll only get the capacity of the smallest cap (a few watt hours maybe) and the power of your lead acid battery (good but nowhere near brand new 3000F Maxwell caps)
no you want the capacitor to be charged to the same voltage before connecting or the capacitor will try to charge itself and cause a big inrush current to come out of the battery.
At the end of the day no lithium chemistry except perhaps lithium titanate can handle the heat under the hood. Heat is the #1 degradation factor of all lithium chemistries. People here on YT have posted results of putting a LiFePO4 battery under the hood and typically within a year the battery has degraded to 50% of its original capacity and one can only assume that with that level of capacity degradation the increase in internal resistance must be pretty substantial. The other issue that has recently been solved is a BMS that can withstand the starting currents of larger gasoline engines or pretty much any diesel engine in a vehicle. Now there are a few dozen options on the market but at the end of the day a mosfet based BMS is not ideal...using a contactor would be the correct way to go about it and would be a lot less likely to fail. You're looking at 200-400A needed for a few seconds to start a small gasoline engine (3.0L V6) and 400A-800A to start larger V6's or most V8's. The smallest diesels are probably going to land in the area of 400A-800A while any pickup truck is going to be in the 800A to 1200A range. Once you step it up to buses, semi trucks, heavy equipment used in construction you have hit a point where lithium titanate oxide (LTO) is going to be the best option as there will be very few options in the LiFePO4 chemistry that will provide the amount of power you need. YinLong 30Ah, 35Ah and 40Ah cells are quite popular but they are only 10C cells...perhaps 15C or so burst rating with a 20C pulse rating. So a 40Ah 6S1P YinLong pack might not start some of the larger diesel vehicles and often times people will go with 6S2P or 6S3P if they want the extra headroom. LTO performs fairly well in the cold compared to any other lithium chemistry which is a huge bonus as well. Cobalt based lithium and LiFePO4 should not be charged below freezing and perform terribly in conditions below 10C. Under -10C their performance is abysmal at best. Toshiba SCiB cells (2.9Ah, 10Ah, and 20Ah) and Lishen LTO (16Ah, 18Ah and from what I've heard has an even higher C rating the 26Ah) look to be the best on the market. I see a lot of datasheets giving numbers like 30C continuous and 50C burst for the Lishens and the SCiB's are 20C continuous and 40C burst with a 75C pulse rating which is likely a
@@ericklein5097 How might you go about preventing an LTO battery from overloading the alternator? Eg being able to limit its current draw to 40 amps? I guess you could have big diodes going both ways, with the ones going into the battery having a current limiter of some sort.
it is yes but if a fault occurs the battery or cap bank will send high amps to attempt to balance with it and poof you have a nice fire. 1900 or 900cranking amps rushing a battery or cap bank wouldnt be a fun day. Both battery and cap bank are Series stacked if you look at high end car audio cap banks are all parallel so when a cell dies it is like its own fuse and not a now open light on a taco bell bathroom door.
Of course. Im fact that's how the startup modules are used with in the big trucks. They normally have 4 x 12V batteries, 2 in series, 2 in parallel for a 24V system and they replace one 12V Lead Acid with a Maxwell 16V start module.
Max is 16v. That it can handle. It will only charge to what ever voltage your car charges to. 16v doesn't. Mean it will be at 16v. These are perfect for cars. Use with confidence.
anything over 15volts can cause issues with automobiles circuits. the video is a series of caps at a total of 16volts paralleled with a 4S configured lithium unit. The series of 4 LI cells is around 16.8volts while your alternator should be below 14.8v. The battery shows 12volt on the package but it isnt true because 3s lithium series is 12.8volts and would be overcharged to easily as well you see it is parallel to the 16volt caps being charged by a 14+ volt alternator so it wouldnt work in 3s configurations. The issues are under charging, over charging, and any faulted cell on either lithium series or capacitor series the other side will inrush high amperage to balance the voltage and you get a nice little car fire. Li cells below 3.5v or above 4.2v each can be damaged this means the operating voltage is a very tight window needing perfect control 3.5x4= 14volt and 4.2x4= 16.8volt lets say your alternator puts out 14.5volt this means the usable voltage range of the cell by cell is 3.6 to 3.5volts because the alternator is limited and the low voltage BMS limits the cell from damage at same time the capacitors only balance the load and voltages between cap and battery.. this means any large load has to be powered directly from the alternators 80-120amp if anymore is needed the battery falls below the 3.5 per cell mark and life span is removed. This means any high amp draw like power invertors, winches, car audio equipment have only the amp burst of the caps before the lithium battery is degraded. That includes cranking or using battery without the engine running every crank cycle creates a voltage drop and that will for sure be below the window of safety of the LI battery. All in all there are real reasons why we do not yet have lithium car batteries.. We would have to create alternator and automobile circuits to run close to the 16.8volt range of a fully charged 4s lithium battery to make use of it or have a some system of voltage regulation like with 12 volt batteries and 6 volt starters or how some large trucks have 24volt starters and some 12 volt circuits. It is really a lot more to it than to plop a LI battery in and call it good. I hope that helps.
@@masterdebater8757 just a correction, we use 4s lifepo4 not lipo. All the above voltage issues are not relevant. Byi, We have our system installed in both leisure and Commercial application, Inc vessels.
Master debater is a know it all that is wrong a lot. A 4s lifepo4 can be charged to 14.4v dc the capacitors will only go as high as the alternator and battery go
I've been wondering for a long time how a "battery" made up of capacitors and cells could have an application in EVs.....for the purposes of quick charging and regen braking.
They've done this. Got something like a 10 mile range I think? But it was stupid fast charging...like a couple minutes. Downside is you need a SERIOUS DC charger. 400kW or something in that realm
I'd have thought hot weather plus a hot engine bay would be a more likely issue. But yeah a low-temp heater would be worthwhile in certain areas I guess.
How is the Lifepo4 battery protected against draining at very high amps into the super caps, right after the car is cranked over? The caps will try to draw more than the battery can handle and the BMS will cut out? You state that car won't draw from the battery, yet it is in parallel, so will draw as soon as the caps drop in voltage (which will be quickly, as caps are linear) You are correct that if the car starts immediately, everything will be ok, any other situation and the BMS will cut out and/or those wires will burn out. How have you resolved those issues?
@@GTrainRx7 If you keep cranking without the engine starting it would rely on your battery once the cap has been depleted. So in this instance BMS will cut it off. There is a person on FB who tested this in his boat. He has attached a supercap only to his existing battery. You can definitely hear the starter spinning well at the beginning when the cap was fully charged and then back to normal cranking sound coming from the old battery until you discharge that as well.
@@eddiifuentes9298 How are the supercaps recharged after a start? They can't draw from the LiFePo4, as the draw will be too great and the BMS will shut off the output.
@@GTrainRx7 I think it would be ok to re charge. Apparently you can use a battery charger to recharge it so that means low current in. Please confirm with Ian
Yes. It gets it's power from the battery and makes starting easier as both the battery and supercaps provide starting power. There are too many questions about how the battery is protected from the supercaps drawing and charging it to hard, for anyone to trust this arrangement.
@@GTrainRx7 no, i mean... on idle times.. Because 20 years ago caps were having this problem (they kept sucking power if circuit were just simple connections) 🤔
@@fireworm91 Ah, you mean... can't think of the proper electrical term... but a parasitic power draw? Yep, you do remember correctly! Maxwell are FREAKISHLY good though, so unless you leave it for 3-6 months, I would not worry about it. Using lesser caps? Def a problem.
@@fireworm91 Totally happy to be questioned! If we don't ask the question, how will we know if our/others knowledge is current? (pun intended) :D While it gives me the "shirts", when I find out I am wrong/don't know something, I don't get offended, it is just the way life is!
Not necessary, the laws of electronics basically say so. A capacitor has the ability to hold current and let it go, they are rated for the exact same capacity each, so every time you send the current thru the next cap, it fills it up like a bucket. When you turn on a load the energy stored rushes out from each cap, a lot like water. There isn’t an internal resistance difference requiring any BMS or whatever, they are already like exactly the same capacity. If you had different capacitors, on one circuit, that’s a more complex IC and depending on what you’re talking about here charge balancing between caps exists. Everything electrical exists in theory
Is it possible, I have an electric motorcycle with regenerative break. Any idea to use super capacitors to charge by regenerative braking and use capacitors current 1st and then get power from battery if drains capacitors. And, If capacitors full then transfer current to battery to charge Any tip?
12volts x 1900amps=22800 watts but i think he is full of crap about the cranking amps. Maybe 12volt x 1000 cranking ampere =12,000 watt is more realistic. I say this because the Lithium battery and capacitor voltage is parallel and the capacitor is known to self discharge pretty quickly.. If you was to create a capacitor bank to replace the car battery alone it would be flat in 4-5days. This means the self discharge of the capacitor is made to balance the voltage between the cap and the LI battery thus losses voltage over time. Another concern is if anything goes wrong in this design lets say a cap goes bad the series chain of the cap is broken and the Lithium battery tries to balance itself with the series of capacitors and you have yourself a nice little vehicle fire. Charge control is another issue if you seen the LI battery is marked 12 volts and that will not work because the automotive alternator would over charge the unit with a +-14.2volt output the lithium battery would be cooked. That means they built the lithium cell not at 12volt because 3 series cells of 4.2volts is 12.6 and would be overcharged so would need to have 4series'd cells at 16.8volts total and work in the window of what a control system is set to lets say 3.6v x 4= 14.4volts nominal voltage the discharge and charge controls need to be perfectly designed to high and vehicle circuits are damaged or dont work properly and below 3.5volts per cell the lithium battery can be damaged. It is a very fine line to walk and exactly why we dont have lithium car batteries.
@@masterdebater8757 He is using LiFeP04 in 4s config. You are talking about Liion or Lipo. LiFeP04 is incredibly safe by comparison. If a cap failed, the capacitor bank would go open circuit and the LiFeP04 bms would trip on over current protection.
@@bildad1234 your assuming there is a bms of quality to do so from the fella that shows a product with sharpy marker labels. IF a bms lives in that box it is charge and balance only not current output protection because its use is automotive you cannot choose to limit current because the draw to start a diesel tractor is well over what can cause catastrophic failure if a cap fails and battery discharges to the failed cap.
@@masterdebater8757 The bms is in the LiFeP04 battery which lives in side this box with the Super Capacitor The caps are all in series you blow an individual cap and the series of capacitors goes open circuit. The LFP battery would have a max current draw of around 8 amps, even if the over current failed nothing would happen it would just kill the LFP battery as it is only 25Ah. However I would probably put a 15A midi fuse between Battery and super cap to protect the LFP battery.
@@bildad1234 im not saying it isnt possible im saying this guy hasnt done it. there are batt isolators that could be used but wont get around needing 100plus amps for engine cranking. some common isolators are 100-150 amp capable but require a feed line voltage equal to normal alternator output before they close contacts (13.2volts or more) and link the bats or in this case caps n bats. These shut down or isolate at +- 12.8 volts to keep bats or mutli/combos from sharing when alternator charge isnt present. More expensive units exist with other control options including manual switching for marine use and pot switch adjustments for cut on or off but the costs go up drastically. The unit cannot simply replace store bought automotive battery especially Lithium cells and have the same output, the required safety, redundancy, and longevity without being way over priced and NO SUCH unit would be presented on YT with sharpy marker label and someone presenting it that doesnt know ass from hole in the ground. Does it start an engine yes, will it load test yes, can you pretend it functions in automotive environment yes. But does it actually work NO. Not this particular one. Give it time real people are making reliable products as we speak. But this rube with a craft set and hot glue gun isnt the one that brings you anything but a car fire.
depress your fuel rails shrader valve allow fuel to coat every thing and light it with a match.,.. I just saved you the cost of this battery and you got the same results in the end... your welcome.
Pathetic starting demo. How does it go on an old 6 or 8 cylinder, out of tune motor on a cold morning? Once the battery gets down 10.5v, neither has current to start. Show how many seconds it will crank no stop with spark leads off, or diesel fuel off.
With all do respect when the battery quits you cannot replace it as it is epoxied into the battery box. That makes a very bad set up Personally I think it is a very bad design. As well as the battery terminals will not lock into place the terminals turn and won't let you open up the case I believe the design could be much better. You should just clamp the lead acid battery into the case and not epoxy it in. I won't buy your battery, poor design.
Thank you for your feedback, firstly there is no lead acid battery inside. This design has been sold in the thousands. And is the Cranking power of many vehicles/vessels/ machinery of all sorts and types and gives solid performance. Non of the above issues have been experienced.
These Maxwell Caps are used in so many heavy usage situations, ie: buses, trains, elevators, cars, regen braking, Solar , etc. they are very useful for many heavy load uses and to assist batteries from taking the bulk of starting grunt/inverters, etc. id like to see some experiments with caps used in series on the solar panel side of the controller to see if it improves overall solar power intake with partially shaded conditions. Cheers. Good vid
I do not think the principle applies for panels. You may benefit from the lower resistance of a capacitor but, overall any energy the panels are able to garner will be put through the MPPT to your storage battery as designed. I think where this shines is taking stress off the battery itself for large startup amp loads, as most things draw 15-30% above rated current to start
@@bigboydrz Ciao. Puoi scommettere anche fino a 55% in più.
Hello, is there a video with alternator disconnected?
Would be more accurate I think to test in an emergency situation...
Hi Ian, So if i need 24V starter battery for a 2000 Toyota Coaster 1HZ diesel engine (normally two 12v leads in series) could it have two these in series?
How does this keep alternator from burning up when bms cuts off charging
my question is how long will it continually crank if the engine doesn't start right away? For example when its -30degree C out side and the diesel does not want to start right away. I have had to crank MY tdi for as long as 30 seconds before it even thinks about firing and sputtering.
What bms should be used to be charged by h/o alternators
For clarification, if the capacitor sits between the alternator and the lithium, how does the lithium battery charge up again, does the capacitor put charge back into the lithium battery.
The capacitor doesn't actually "sit between" the alternator and the capacitors (well not as shown anyway) The alternator will charge the battery once the caps voltage exceeds the battery's voltage. So it is entirely possible that the battery is getting charged in excess of 50amps. Technically the battery may sit close to 14.5V, which is the max alternator voltage, so the charge current could be low. Short version? It does work IF the battery stays at a high voltage, any other instance and that battery will be damaged, or have the BMS cut in.
12volts x 1900amps=22800 watts but i think he is full of crap about the cranking amps. Maybe 12volt x 1000 cranking ampere =12,000 watt is more realistic. I say this because the Lithium battery and capacitor voltage is parallel and the capacitor is known to self discharge pretty quickly.. If you was to create a capacitor bank to replace the car battery alone it would be flat in 4-5days. This means the self discharge of the capacitor is made to balance the voltage between the cap and the LI battery thus losses voltage over time. Another concern is if anything goes wrong in this design lets say a cap goes bad the series chain of the cap is broken and the Lithium battery tries to balance itself with the series of capacitors and you have yourself a nice little vehicle fire. Charge control is another issue if you seen the LI battery is marked 12 volts and that will not work because the automotive alternator would over charge the unit with a +-14.2volt output the lithium battery would be cooked. That means they built the lithium cell not at 12volt because 3 series cells of 4.2volts is 12.6 and would be overcharged so would need to have 4series'd cells at 16.8volts total and work in the window of what a control system is set to lets say 3.6v x 4= 14.4volts nominal voltage the discharge and charge controls need to be perfectly designed to high and vehicle circuits are damaged or dont work properly and below 3.5volts per cell the lithium battery can be damaged. It is a very fine line to walk and exactly why we dont have lithium car batteries.
Does it drain power? And how much?
I guess yes because there is a BMS under the blue plastic film. So pro: it works a lot of times in a row
But
Cons: you can not leave your car without charging from the alternator during medium to long time.
Bought one today, unlike the other FPV lithium batteries that came with a charger, this cranking one does not have one. And I was told it can be charged by a normal battery charger, is it true? Will it affect its life?
Normal 12v car charger will work perfectly. no ill effect
@@iangoh7289 you are a legend mate, thanks for selling these great batteries mate
How has it been for you? No hickups in hot weather?
Very impressive performance! Can you advise (or post links) how to size such a capacitor arrangement? My 120v fridge draws 1.5 amp (so about 180 w). Starting inrush drops 12v batteries to about 11v and alarms or trips the 1Kw (modified sq. wave) inverter, then batteries (nominal 200 Ah) return to full voltage. Wondering if there'd be enough capacitance to start the fridge adequately, or would I need more? Thanks
1900a capability, which would cover 99% of application when off grid.
How can the capacitors dump high current starter current (maybe up to 200A) through such skinny wires TO THE BATTERY when cranking?
If the caps can give some rated 1900A maximum output @16v, how the hell can it discharge that through skinny wires?
the car's 12v rail would connect straight to the supercap, not the lfp battery.
Hello.
I have two 12 volt batteries in series in a 24 volt system.
Is it possible to swap one of the batteries for a kit with supercapacitors?
hmm i think an issue would be that these super caps are not balanced. 24v stuff tends to be expensive also... and I think a lead acid battery in series with a super cap kit would nullify a lot of the economy benefits coz of how internal resistance works. dont know for sure though. I wonder if you eventually tried this?
No. When you put things in series like this you are limited by the least powerful/smallest capacity cell. So you'll only get the capacity of the smallest cap (a few watt hours maybe) and the power of your lead acid battery (good but nowhere near brand new 3000F Maxwell caps)
Where can we buy this battery or accessories from have address or store warehouse in Melbourne
Should I discharge the supercap before paralleling it with the battery? or it doesn't matter?
no you want the capacitor to be charged to the same voltage before connecting or the capacitor will try to charge itself and cause a big inrush current to come out of the battery.
@@richie4540 ye I already experienced it firsthand, melted my tiny wire rip.
You did not say whether you could leave the battery in the vehicle, and it would operate like a lead acid battery.
At the end of the day no lithium chemistry except perhaps lithium titanate can handle the heat under the hood. Heat is the #1 degradation factor of all lithium chemistries. People here on YT have posted results of putting a LiFePO4 battery under the hood and typically within a year the battery has degraded to 50% of its original capacity and one can only assume that with that level of capacity degradation the increase in internal resistance must be pretty substantial.
The other issue that has recently been solved is a BMS that can withstand the starting currents of larger gasoline engines or pretty much any diesel engine in a vehicle. Now there are a few dozen options on the market but at the end of the day a mosfet based BMS is not ideal...using a contactor would be the correct way to go about it and would be a lot less likely to fail. You're looking at 200-400A needed for a few seconds to start a small gasoline engine (3.0L V6) and 400A-800A to start larger V6's or most V8's. The smallest diesels are probably going to land in the area of 400A-800A while any pickup truck is going to be in the 800A to 1200A range. Once you step it up to buses, semi trucks, heavy equipment used in construction you have hit a point where lithium titanate oxide (LTO) is going to be the best option as there will be very few options in the LiFePO4 chemistry that will provide the amount of power you need. YinLong 30Ah, 35Ah and 40Ah cells are quite popular but they are only 10C cells...perhaps 15C or so burst rating with a 20C pulse rating. So a 40Ah 6S1P YinLong pack might not start some of the larger diesel vehicles and often times people will go with 6S2P or 6S3P if they want the extra headroom. LTO performs fairly well in the cold compared to any other lithium chemistry which is a huge bonus as well. Cobalt based lithium and LiFePO4 should not be charged below freezing and perform terribly in conditions below 10C. Under -10C their performance is abysmal at best.
Toshiba SCiB cells (2.9Ah, 10Ah, and 20Ah) and Lishen LTO (16Ah, 18Ah and from what I've heard has an even higher C rating the 26Ah) look to be the best on the market. I see a lot of datasheets giving numbers like 30C continuous and 50C burst for the Lishens and the SCiB's are 20C continuous and 40C burst with a 75C pulse rating which is likely a
@@ericklein5097 How might you go about preventing an LTO battery from overloading the alternator? Eg being able to limit its current draw to 40 amps? I guess you could have big diodes going both ways, with the ones going into the battery having a current limiter of some sort.
It is.possible to parallel the supercaps to lead acid battery? It has the same function with the lithium battery?
it is yes but if a fault occurs the battery or cap bank will send high amps to attempt to balance with it and poof you have a nice fire. 1900 or 900cranking amps rushing a battery or cap bank wouldnt be a fun day. Both battery and cap bank are Series stacked if you look at high end car audio cap banks are all parallel so when a cell dies it is like its own fuse and not a now open light on a taco bell bathroom door.
Of course. Im fact that's how the startup modules are used with in the big trucks. They normally have 4 x 12V batteries, 2 in series, 2 in parallel for a 24V system and they replace one 12V Lead Acid with a Maxwell 16V start module.
Would the 16v supercapacitor fry the car electronics rated at 12v? I am interested to try it but concern with voltage disparity.
Max is 16v. That it can handle. It will only charge to what ever voltage your car charges to. 16v doesn't. Mean it will be at 16v. These are perfect for cars. Use with confidence.
@@iangoh7289 thanks for your kind reply. Will try it out.
anything over 15volts can cause issues with automobiles circuits. the video is a series of caps at a total of 16volts paralleled with a 4S configured lithium unit. The series of 4 LI cells is around 16.8volts while your alternator should be below 14.8v. The battery shows 12volt on the package but it isnt true because 3s lithium series is 12.8volts and would be overcharged to easily as well you see it is parallel to the 16volt caps being charged by a 14+ volt alternator so it wouldnt work in 3s configurations. The issues are under charging, over charging, and any faulted cell on either lithium series or capacitor series the other side will inrush high amperage to balance the voltage and you get a nice little car fire. Li cells below 3.5v or above 4.2v each can be damaged this means the operating voltage is a very tight window needing perfect control 3.5x4= 14volt and 4.2x4= 16.8volt lets say your alternator puts out 14.5volt this means the usable voltage range of the cell by cell is 3.6 to 3.5volts because the alternator is limited and the low voltage BMS limits the cell from damage at same time the capacitors only balance the load and voltages between cap and battery.. this means any large load has to be powered directly from the alternators 80-120amp if anymore is needed the battery falls below the 3.5 per cell mark and life span is removed. This means any high amp draw like power invertors, winches, car audio equipment have only the amp burst of the caps before the lithium battery is degraded. That includes cranking or using battery without the engine running every crank cycle creates a voltage drop and that will for sure be below the window of safety of the LI battery. All in all there are real reasons why we do not yet have lithium car batteries.. We would have to create alternator and automobile circuits to run close to the 16.8volt range of a fully charged 4s lithium battery to make use of it or have a some system of voltage regulation like with 12 volt batteries and 6 volt starters or how some large trucks have 24volt starters and some 12 volt circuits. It is really a lot more to it than to plop a LI battery in and call it good. I hope that helps.
@@masterdebater8757 just a correction, we use 4s lifepo4 not lipo. All the above voltage issues are not relevant. Byi, We have our system installed in both leisure and Commercial application, Inc vessels.
Master debater is a know it all that is wrong a lot. A 4s lifepo4 can be charged to 14.4v dc the capacitors will only go as high as the alternator and battery go
I've been wondering for a long time how a "battery" made up of capacitors and cells could have an application in EVs.....for the purposes of quick charging and regen braking.
They've done this. Got something like a 10 mile range I think? But it was stupid fast charging...like a couple minutes. Downside is you need a SERIOUS DC charger. 400kW or something in that realm
How do you deal with cold charging which can destroy lithium batteries?
Lifepo4 sometimes have automatic heaters in them.
I'd have thought hot weather plus a hot engine bay would be a more likely issue.
But yeah a low-temp heater would be worthwhile in certain areas I guess.
Do you ship to France??
Looking the goods mate 👌👍
How is the Lifepo4 battery protected against draining at very high amps into the super caps, right after the car is cranked over? The caps will try to draw more than the battery can handle and the BMS will cut out? You state that car won't draw from the battery, yet it is in parallel, so will draw as soon as the caps drop in voltage (which will be quickly, as caps are linear) You are correct that if the car starts immediately, everything will be ok, any other situation and the BMS will cut out and/or those wires will burn out. How have you resolved those issues?
Could we see how long you can crank, without the car starting?
@@GTrainRx7 If you keep cranking without the engine starting it would rely on your battery once the cap has been depleted. So in this instance BMS will cut it off. There is a person on FB who tested this in his boat. He has attached a supercap only to his existing battery. You can definitely hear the starter spinning well at the beginning when the cap was fully charged and then back to normal cranking sound coming from the old battery until you discharge that as well.
@@eddiifuentes9298 How are the supercaps recharged after a start? They can't draw from the LiFePo4, as the draw will be too great and the BMS will shut off the output.
@@GTrainRx7 I think it would be ok to re charge. Apparently you can use a battery charger to recharge it so that means low current in. Please confirm with Ian
@@GTrainRx7 Alternator, should be obvious
Does the supercap actually discharge your battery??
Yes. It gets it's power from the battery and makes starting easier as both the battery and supercaps provide starting power. There are too many questions about how the battery is protected from the supercaps drawing and charging it to hard, for anyone to trust this arrangement.
@@GTrainRx7 no, i mean... on idle times..
Because 20 years ago caps were having this problem (they kept sucking power if circuit were just simple connections) 🤔
@@fireworm91 Ah, you mean... can't think of the proper electrical term... but a parasitic power draw?
Yep, you do remember correctly! Maxwell are FREAKISHLY good though, so unless you leave it for 3-6 months, I would not worry about it. Using lesser caps? Def a problem.
@@GTrainRx7 thanks for the clarification, you got it 👍😀
@@fireworm91 Totally happy to be questioned! If we don't ask the question, how will we know if our/others knowledge is current? (pun intended) :D
While it gives me the "shirts", when I find out I am wrong/don't know something, I don't get offended, it is just the way life is!
Are the capacitors balanced by a circuit in that series arrangement?
Not necessary, the laws of electronics basically say so. A capacitor has the ability to hold current and let it go, they are rated for the exact same capacity each, so every time you send the current thru the next cap, it fills it up like a bucket. When you turn on a load the energy stored rushes out from each cap, a lot like water. There isn’t an internal resistance difference requiring any BMS or whatever, they are already like exactly the same capacity. If you had different capacitors, on one circuit, that’s a more complex IC and depending on what you’re talking about here charge balancing between caps exists. Everything electrical exists in theory
Is it possible,
I have an electric motorcycle with regenerative break.
Any idea to use super capacitors to charge by regenerative braking and use capacitors current 1st and then get power from battery if drains capacitors.
And, If capacitors full then transfer current to battery to charge
Any tip?
Wrote here for updates. Sounds interesting.
Does anyone have any opposition using this towards a winch system for very short bursts of raising and lower plows on atv's/utv's?
its a fire waiting to happen period.
O teste nao é valido pois quando o motor dar a partida ele recarrega os capacitores.
Would this start a .5 hp surface water pump? pulls around 3800W to start the pump motor.
12volts x 1900amps=22800 watts but i think he is full of crap about the cranking amps. Maybe 12volt x 1000 cranking ampere =12,000 watt is more realistic. I say this because the Lithium battery and capacitor voltage is parallel and the capacitor is known to self discharge pretty quickly.. If you was to create a capacitor bank to replace the car battery alone it would be flat in 4-5days. This means the self discharge of the capacitor is made to balance the voltage between the cap and the LI battery thus losses voltage over time. Another concern is if anything goes wrong in this design lets say a cap goes bad the series chain of the cap is broken and the Lithium battery tries to balance itself with the series of capacitors and you have yourself a nice little vehicle fire. Charge control is another issue if you seen the LI battery is marked 12 volts and that will not work because the automotive alternator would over charge the unit with a +-14.2volt output the lithium battery would be cooked. That means they built the lithium cell not at 12volt because 3 series cells of 4.2volts is 12.6 and would be overcharged so would need to have 4series'd cells at 16.8volts total and work in the window of what a control system is set to lets say 3.6v x 4= 14.4volts nominal voltage the discharge and charge controls need to be perfectly designed to high and vehicle circuits are damaged or dont work properly and below 3.5volts per cell the lithium battery can be damaged. It is a very fine line to walk and exactly why we dont have lithium car batteries.
@@masterdebater8757 He is using LiFeP04 in 4s config.
You are talking about Liion or Lipo.
LiFeP04 is incredibly safe by comparison.
If a cap failed, the capacitor bank would go open circuit and the LiFeP04 bms would trip on over current protection.
@@bildad1234 your assuming there is a bms of quality to do so from the fella that shows a product with sharpy marker labels. IF a bms lives in that box it is charge and balance only not current output protection because its use is automotive you cannot choose to limit current because the draw to start a diesel tractor is well over what can cause catastrophic failure if a cap fails and battery discharges to the failed cap.
@@masterdebater8757 The bms is in the LiFeP04 battery which lives in side this box with the Super Capacitor
The caps are all in series you blow an individual cap and the series of capacitors goes open circuit.
The LFP battery would have a max current draw of around 8 amps, even if the over current failed nothing would happen it would just kill the LFP battery as it is only 25Ah.
However I would probably put a 15A midi fuse between Battery and super cap to protect the LFP battery.
@@bildad1234 im not saying it isnt possible im saying this guy hasnt done it. there are batt isolators that could be used but wont get around needing 100plus amps for engine cranking. some common isolators are 100-150 amp capable but require a feed line voltage equal to normal alternator output before they close contacts (13.2volts or more) and link the bats or in this case caps n bats. These shut down or isolate at +- 12.8 volts to keep bats or mutli/combos from sharing when alternator charge isnt present. More expensive units exist with other control options including manual switching for marine use and pot switch adjustments for cut on or off but the costs go up drastically. The unit cannot simply replace store bought automotive battery especially Lithium cells and have the same output, the required safety, redundancy, and longevity without being way over priced and NO SUCH unit would be presented on YT with sharpy marker label and someone presenting it that doesnt know ass from hole in the ground. Does it start an engine yes, will it load test yes, can you pretend it functions in automotive environment yes. But does it actually work NO. Not this particular one. Give it time real people are making reliable products as we speak. But this rube with a craft set and hot glue gun isnt the one that brings you anything but a car fire.
do you deliver to USA?
depress your fuel rails shrader valve allow fuel to coat every thing and light it with a match.,.. I just saved you the cost of this battery and you got the same results in the end... your welcome.
No wonder you changed the starter motor lol
Getting dizzy while you change focus
Super cap 500f ,Good to add to yinlong 80ah bank or nah?
I put my ultracaps in a century battery case
exLAX.
Pathetic starting demo.
How does it go on an old 6 or 8 cylinder, out of tune motor on a cold morning? Once the battery gets down 10.5v, neither has current to start.
Show how many seconds it will crank no stop with spark leads off, or diesel fuel off.
you burn up the starter.
Quite the opposite, it is less likely to burn up the starter because of less voltage drop... But mechanically it might be harder on the starter.
With all do respect when the battery quits you cannot replace it as it is epoxied into the battery box. That makes a very bad set up Personally I think it is a very bad design. As well as the battery terminals will not lock into place the terminals turn and won't let you open up the case I believe the design could be much better. You should just clamp the lead acid battery into the case and not epoxy it in. I won't buy your battery, poor design.
Thank you for your feedback, firstly there is no lead acid battery inside.
This design has been sold in the thousands. And is the Cranking power of many vehicles/vessels/ machinery of all sorts and types and gives solid performance. Non of the above issues have been experienced.
>>all do respect
How many costs these capacitors?