Selling of HDB flats as assets as Singapore’s greatest housing mistake
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Renowned architect and housing policy expert Professor Tay Kheng Soon has expressed concern over Singapore's public housing policies, which he believes have trapped the government and its citizens in a no-solution problem.
Speaking at a town hall meeting organised by "Workers Made Possible" on 9 April, Prof. Tay noted that public housing in Singapore was once a crowning achievement, providing affordable homes to many Singaporeans.
However, he believes that the government's decision to sell the idea of asset enhancement to the public has resulted in weakened society and a housing problem that has no solution.
"The greatest mistake that was made by the government was to sell the idea to people, to the population about asset enhancement," said Prof Tay. "That is really an opiate in which people got drugged. And in the process has weakened the entire society."
"Young people's silence towards the government is a disaster." - Sad but true
He speak the truth
The truth hurts
Well said but base on foreigners flowing in, Singapore properties will kept going up & up & up by 2030.
The locals get squeezed.
Well, he does have a point in what he said and since he is a professor, I was expecting him to provide at least some constructive proposals or suggestions. In the end, his only suggestion is that the gov should pay dividend to the citizens and he doesn't know how much or how to calculate it.
From my personal point of view, infrastructure such as road improvements, landscaping, community parks, covered-walkways, bridges, etc etc are being built or improved on constantly. So does this count as dividends to the citizens or just another "oh, its the govs job to magically create money to pay for everything" ?
Since the speaker is a professor, I was somewhat disappointed that the speech was quite shallow and somewhat biased. Only talking one-sided about the cons without acknowledging the pros.
Also, wish to add that the learned retired professor offered absolutely no solution at all to the HDB housing problems highlighted. All that he mentioned was the housing policy should be sustainable. Truly criticizing like a grumpy old man, he is no different from the Opposition politicians, at least we know which party he belongs to. Nice try.
Hopefully, this will put a damper on the insane property market.
By the way, have a feeling that the reserve is empty.
"Your silence is a DiSASTER for singapore" u cant put it into better words but its true.. o am from this Irrelevant generationand indeed we are trapped in debt from HDB and theres nothing much we can do.
It is sad the entire economy seems to revolve around a roof. 75% of what someone earns go straight to the mortgage, then honestly what life are we leading.
@@MrBoliao98 i agree.. a very vicious cycle.
@@horologyenthusiast8523 our life will taste like our hawker centre, overworked, processed as hell, zero innovation, overall a lacklustre Singapore.
@@MrBoliao98 i am SG chinese here, married with kids and own a humble small 5 room flat. hmm u mentioned 75 percent of what someone earns goes to mortgage. Dont think that is right in my current situation. My household earns just slightly above the median household income. My mortgage is all paid via my CPF OA, and every month there will be excess CPF OA after the deduction. I do not need to come out cash at all. So its definitely way lesser than 75 percent. I also dont support any political party. Just based off my own experience here to share.
The problem is we all have choices to make. Most people like to skew things by selecting the most expensive BTO at a mature location or cite an example of a million dollar resale HDB at a mature location and make bold claims that HDB is expensive. There are alot more options in other locations, different flat sizes. lease left units to choose from and the price varies.
I agree the promise of flats value only going up is harmful but the caveat is the value of the flat to the remaining lease and not the total value of the flat. Another thing to note is that you have to compare the value to the BTO price and not the hyperinflated price of the resale market.
The HDB market is like having eggs in a famine value will go up but once the lease is over it is like holding to spoilt eggs where disposal is the only option.
Moral of the story is that Singaporeans must think and consider the true value and worth of anything they purchase instead of blindly trusting what others say at face value(can be the gov, anti-gov, or even marketers that wants your money). Only when you truly understand the situation do you understand the value of what you had purchased. The only person you can blame when you are in a debt trap is yourself.
Tay like to blame govt but forgot all workers have free choice to change jobs, retrain, raise their productivity, save more, start their own innovative business, or even work overseas. He talk as if SG is absolute communist structure where jobs are allocated for life and pay does not rise.
even if we KNOW the true value and worth, there is NO CHOICE....especially if you are not wealthy. We can't pitch up a tend or makeshift house on any land, because there is no free land in sg. And sleeping rough is illegal.
the only legal choice that we have, is to like what Mr Tay said.....is to speak up with our votes. And unless the majority of Sinkies wake the F up.....even if we want to have a choice, we don't.
I beg to differ. It is the government which controls the supply and demand of housing and as such they set the prices and citizens are price takers. This is of course in reference to public housing. Even for private housing, the government has a big say in the pricing of new builds bcoz they are the primary suppliers of land.
HDB is never an asset because the real owner of the flat is HDB itself. Technically, we are merely lessee and co-lessee of the house and the mortgages that we pay every month is just like rentals paying to HDB, just that we got more freedom with the house, that's all. To think that HDB is an asset is the biggest mistake. Bear in mind that all sales proceeds are subjected to CPF rulings and they can used it to lock all your money indefinitely by constantly raising minimum sum amount until it is unreachable. Everything is a lie and everything is a scheme that is carefully designed to take advantage of you and siphon all your money.
When he puts it like that, It makes sense that the value of a borrowed item should never go up. The government has inflated these "assets" to the point it's unsustainable
And if you do that, you will get dilapated, run down public housing blocks like you see in the UK or USA. Coz who wants to take care of something that is going to depreciate in value?
the govt keeps inflating the prices, so that you have to pay more and more for CPF loan, bank loan, and whatever inflated fees and stamp duties, etc. HDB also collects "agent fees" for themselves,
And this is sustainable, at OUR cost and loss, And when govt finally admitted, that HDB prices would depreciate after 50 years, then even pap's most strongest supporters will realise they had been lied to with this ponzi scheme
Mati lah....
How did you expect that an old house will forever go up in value? Is this like an antique watch, or an artwork? A Picasso painting, perhaps?
No. The value of a flat is to have a roof over the head, a place to be your home. Not an asset to increase its value. If endless value increase is the model on which basis the society is being made wealthier, then at some point that system MUST burst, just like a soap bubble. And that moment is when normal people can not pay for housing anymore.
The solution to the problem is to have options for those who cannot afford. Singapore has cheap flats located in less desirable areas of Singapore such as Sembawang. Beggars can't be choosers. But Singaporeans are so pampered that even beggars want prime location, big flats
@@xxxcool2565 A roof over the head, water, electricity, a job, and food should never be down to the plays of market forces. These should be affordable even for the poorer layers of a society.
Speculate with watches, cars, gold, shares.
@@krollpeter and there are in Singapore. There are many affordable HDB flats in the outskirts like in Khatib and Sembawang for $150k after subsidies. Failing which there are also rental flats some going as cheap as $50 a month. But no. You spoilt brats are complaining because you only want prime location 4/5 room flats.
@@xxxcool2565 you mean Orchard Road or Bukit Timah Road for 150 k?
@@krollpeter did i not already mention khatib and sembawang? Besides, why should desireable places like orchard go for $150k? Supply and demand. Basic economy. Again spoilt brats like you don't know what you're talking about
The biggest mistake is for us to not remember the lease when we buy. You have to remember when at the end of your lease, your property is then returned to the state just like that 195 Terrace houses in Lorong 3 Geylang. You are either a subsidiary proprietor or lessee for that stipulated lease. And only now I think are we scrambling, and yet we are faced with this crisis.
Hmmm uncle, unsure about it a mistake, if the housing has no expiry at 99 yrs, how's our great grand children can have same benefit ie. a piece of the country when you long gone?
@@leanne2330 when you have a freehold and 999 year lease like the past, you go and ask your grandparents how many of them were mere Tennants in the kampong. In fact they were compensated a few hundred dollars while the landlord collected the 17,000.
Naturally most people are shitty at money, they will just downgrade and some fellow with zero restrictions and a freehold title will gobble up everything. If our HDB were to be like our shophouses and our commercial property, all of us will be beholden to a landlord. At least under the state, and in this 99 year system which is enough for you and your children to die in a brand new bto is fair. It is not right just because you're capable and own a 5 Room that your grand and great grand children should get the title to a freehold. Better a state be the custodian then all of us revert back to the Tennant/serf status we had in the past.
The main issue is that our HDB supply is not enough, and our flats are not appropriately discounted by buyers with the lease decay. People should be very aware that they are buying a flat with say 50 years lease left, and they better make sure if they want a flat their children can die in, they get a newer flat.
@@MrBoliao98 absolutely. Many people think the 99 yrs is to host the generations. The generations unlikely want these old houses. They have theirs. Cheers
@@leanne2330 😊 up in
@@leanne2330 saw
"We intend to keep the value of these homes up, it will never go down. Because it will be renewed, the surroundings will improve, and as Singapore prospers, GDP goes up, the value of homes will go up."
Lee Kuan Yew
2013
Good leh. Go up good leh. Most singporens happy
@@malita354 those with house now will be happy! Can rent out for passive income
@@jeny7177 Ya, its not our problem the new generation pay for higher price flats since its Highly Affordable due to grants. Affordability comprises the ability to take 30 year loans. No time limit one. Npw we can work till 85 if they want by the time the new gen retires right?
yes he cheated the people with such lies. We paid a huge amount of wealth paying high prices for a HDB flat that in the end was a lie snd scam, and we are not getting that money back.
how people can continue to vote for pap, i cannot comprehend.
@@isftish I beg to differ! Ask the residents of hdb estates with million dollar resale transactions are they happy with Asset Enhancement. Do you even know their grassroots networking? It will shock you how happy they are.
Who in the right frame of mind saying that it is going to be a debt trap ?
You are own responsiblilty of your own choice,i not rich and only working as manufacturing worker.I choose 3 room bto ,less than 160 k including grant and now able to pay off.
It is what you choose, if i will to be big head and choose amk bto 4 room 500k ,then that is debt trap or choice i wanted to be in debt.
What is he talking? I now looking at now 3 room bto ,it is still affordable.He does not put sense in his word and i can jusitify that cos i been there buying 3 room and paying off
U have a point. Its human desire make its a debt trapped. Some people cant afford 4room bto buy still buy it. When they can buy 2room bto which only 50k after grant and can easily be paid in lumpsump from ur cpf which im sure have enough if ur working more than 10years
Good points on the debt trap shackles !!
Don't you think Tay is a hypocrite: he owns private property and never work for social welfare or charity NGO before. Now trying to stir rebellion among the young while forgetting that workers can innovate, be more productive, retrain, get pay raises, higher savings and change jobs. Can even work overseas.
Actually, almost everything involved in money leads to a debt trap. What Kim Seng me too ed is not new
Thank god 2 storey landed house in malaysia is Freehold.😅
@@fillettru Why don't you talk to more Malaysians? Do you know those wealthier ones from KL prefer to try to buy SG property instead of even KL. And don't even talk about the rubbish in the smaller towns.
So，all he is asking is for government to split the national coffer. If there is a war, another pandemic or deep world wide recession lasting one whole decade, who is paying? Cough the money back out? If only he can paint an alternative to the HDB system. Everyone who buy a HDB knows it is on a 99-year leasehold. Plan around that and exercise your best judgement and then live with it.
A hdb is for living in. Imo resale prices do not currently reflect exuberance or speculation. Prices are commensurate with what people are willing to pay to live on this sunny island for 1 lifetime - our island promises a bright future ahead for residents and I believe the price is fair.
We have grants and cpf which make home 'ownership' attainable for most despite the price climate (and I am not disillusioned about growing inequalities - even for the less fortunate, hdb ownership is commonplace).
The intention of 99 year leases was never to prevent asset accumulation. In our space constrained nation, it is the only way to force continued redevelopment (and we have yet to see how they plan to carry that through).
There are many other means of asset accumulation in singapore. A home is to live in, not an investment.
Actually the future is bleak fir the young generation😢😢😢😢😢😢 in all aspect including CPF
You think Singapore is bleak, wait till you see Hong Kong, Los Angeles, London, etc. That's bleak. And don't give the stupid excuse that one can move to cheaper mid west america and enjoy a lower cost of living coz that's like asking Singaporeans to move to Johor to live
At least CPF allows people to save up for housing, retirement and medical. Young generations now have lots of opportunities and their salary is even higher compared to years ago.
Comments is extreme and not giving a solution. It is only part of the equation he is saying. I believe HDB is the best model for Singapore and for owning real estate, it is not uncommon to have bank debt. To avoid debt trap, one can opt to rent instead of buying and own the HDB.
I know of some who rents for many years and do not purchase property or assets and don’t borrow any monies. Are they doing better or being entrepreneurs ? they don’t. They end up don’t even have saving an asset for retirement. The extra (if any) for not owning a HDB are spendto have a better life as well. It happens to many people in mature economies as they depend on the government for retirement.
The rents that ones pay can be used as installment to pay for the real estate. This is a better option and HDB is an entry level for many youngsters. I encourage youngsters to buy a HDB and have a ‘debt trap’ and not to rent. At least you own an asset and know that you will it pay off one day or to sell it. It is for own stay and taking it as an investment is secondary.
Investigation should be carried out against the Lender Bank + Buyer for Money Laundering / Tax Cheats (Unfair to all Taxpayers)
Just name countries which are more fantastic than Singapore
Amazingly well stated.
Actually Tay is talking cock. He forgot citizens can get pay raises, save more, retrain, change jobs, or start their own business. All citizens can work overseas for high pay too. He is pandering to the weak, the rebellious and the lazy. He talk as if SG is a pure communist structure where jobs are allocated by govt and pay is fixed for life.
This guy is right and dares to voice concerns.
Exactly I have been saying this for years ......🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑are trapped & silenced
With all due respect, Kim Soon, I couldn't totally agree with you. The problems you raised are not new. Public housing is a perpetual problem we must tackle together, being the citizens and the politicians voted in. Suggestion of asking the young people to 'voice' their concerns strongly is not clear. Like what you say, young people are irrelevant looking at the demographic distribution of Singapore. So it will not help them even if they were to show displeasure through exercising their right in vote. Demanding citizen dividends is appealing but will lead to undesirable consequences because we are talking about tapping money from the reserves. One must always remember, there is a limit in what we can get and what a country can offer. I am never a supporter of PAP but I tend to be pragmatic when looking at issues like the HDB housing. Sorry to state that the HDB houses are never an asset when they were lounged since the sixties and so on. You are an architect, so you should know better. It was a project to solve the housing issue. In simple terms, providing a roof over our head. Even until nineteen-nineties, it only managed to solve the issues of providing a roof over our heads. The assets idea is only short-term. Most of the pioneer and mendeka generations benefited from the policy then. Whereas the X and Y-gen, even the millennials, inclusively, did not really enjoy the fruits from the policy. Nonetheless, I would suggest HDB and land authority to look into my proposal of recycling in land usage. Singapore is a country that cannot have the luxury of freehold land ownership. Land must be recycled every 50 to 99 years depending on the condition of the assets at the given period of time. 50 years because that was your argument using Bala's theory, 99 years being HDB's agreed lease. Being a patriotic citizen, one should be given the right to own a new property at its market rate should one's property be destined for demolition and rebuild. As for the newcomers, there shall be no free lunch but affordable housing for them to choose. Start with what you can afford, let the authorities worry for land sustainability as that was why we vote them in the parliament.
My concern is for job security. Many people are likely to be retrenched when they reached 40+. The government believes in re-training to find new job.. in reality, it is very difficult.
If not for the HDB , what will anchor young people to Singapore
No assets.
Talk is cheap….how you gonna solve the issues??Singapore so small,then how?complain and kpkb are easy….Opposition only know to kpkb,..but no solutioins😂
he is a good cry wolf at highlighting problems but not in proposing solutions.
Does anyone of u work hard study hard strive hard to progress , upgrade lifestyle, hoping whatever properties we bought the value goes up, no flat or down? If anyone of u say u wish the hdb u living in now the value depreciation by half n more so that the next gen can afford them , I say u hypocrite! Anyone of u wanna buy 600k Hdb and hope your Pty value down to 400k 10 years later?
Those people who complain are mainly those who are young. These freshers with less than 5 years work experience only looks at buying 4 /5 room HDB in prime location and baulks at the price vis-a-vis their paltry monthly pay and then complain non stop at the government instead of looking to improve their income because 1) They are spoilt brats by their parents 2) Its easier to blame the government than themselves. But trust me once they bought their HDB, they would be the first to protest if prices of their HDB remained flat or worse decline. Then they will start complaining how to upgrade to condo when prices of HDB is flat or declining. Then you will hear Condos for FT, HDB for sinkies and they will blame the government. These people are just acting like spoilt brats
Fair point but debt trap is only if young people follow like sheep and over extend themselves. Nowadays people are asking up and exploring financial freedom.
Demographics argument should also factor in inheritance and parental support.
Singaporeans on their own free will applies for HDB flats because it is an asset, not because government says or markets it as an asset.. Even those who rent aspire to own one. Whose mistake or mistaken!
But if don’t buy flat buy what ah.. 99 years condo also can’t afford and depreciate over time as well. What’s the solution if we don’t buy in the hdb flat narrative? Or you got better solution ?
Citizen 's dividend? Malaysian are paying for their car petrol + water supply despite the resources belongs to the people . Petronas made billions....
Malaysia is not a wealthy country but we still manage to subsidised certain things like health care, education, petrol, electricity and many more. Our biggest problem about the subsidy is it not being effectively targeted. Right now our neighbours up north and down south are also enjoying SOME of these subsidies.
We should see the glass half full instead of thinking it is half empty. And seriously, we should stop property agents from being so aggressive in sourcing for business. I have property agents knocking on my door now and then to ask me if I want to sell my flat. I have flyers from property agents on my door and in my mail box every day. When we look carefully, it is not difficult to understand why property prices are going up. There is no solution because the people have the freedom to choose what to do with their flats. Also, when we want the society to prosper, these are problems that come together. Inflation is linked to strong economic growth.
Its my belief that it is intentional that our govt said, HDB IS AN ASSET.
why ?
Bec they dont want to be burdened with the SERS financials to convert all the old hdb to fresh lease.
Thus, they go around to say, its an asset so MOP citizens sell after 5 years, to upgrade to a bigger hdb or condo.
That way, once a hdb flat is 60 years old, with only 39 years left, the cash rich oldies will still buy it.
So like robots, we moved the entire cycle and back to a three roomer where we will see our final end. 😊😊😊
Cannot go up? More and more are spelling for above S$1m! You are an architect not an economist, real estate expert or politician. The exipry of lease can be overcome by government renewing the lease or relocating them to new flats at no extra cost. The first solution is practised by the Malaysian authorities which is working well for Malaysian leaseholders.
99 years = freehold ?
Self entitlement.
Just lease one then :
$4k x12month x50 years = …….😂
Only sporean will consider hdb as ownership but foreigner will never agreed for the fact that it is more like a 99 years rental from hdb. For example today u rent a u-bike, once times up, u return the bike, can u say u own the bike?
For those purchased their flat in the 70s and 80s probably can make some good money if they sell now provided they have another place to stay, otherwise just leave it to their children who may not be able to afford one in future.
For those 55 years old buying shorter lease bto, remember it is just a 40 year rental from hdb, u can't rent out, can't sell on open market, u pay the 40 years "rental" upfront, the only consolation is "rental" is quite cheap compare to other room rental.
Same applies to 99 years condo which is most condo these days in Singapore. In fact, this applies to even freehold properties as freehold properties are also subjected to the land act which enables government to acquire the land for strategic purposes.
What he said is true about the debt trapped. Most singaporean now has to work until death in order to sustain the mortage and the maintanence fees...but then again if u dont buy a home in singapore then ur more fuxxck coz u need to rent..which is more expensive than owning. The best solution is to just buy what u can afford. 2 room bto is just 30k-50k after grant..which easily paid off with cpf
How many HDB blocks are more than 50 years old?
HDB estates are redeveloped before that point is reached.
The people's entire life savings is in their flat is too much of an exaggeration. Singaporeans know how to think and plan their home purchases. There are the ones who sell their homes for quick money, and find themselves in a tent at Changi Beach.
What "debt trap"? Their cars, they never pay up in full, a "debt trap"? No housing loan, can they cough up the full payment for the house? Vote in whatever government, there will be "debt trap".
Young people irrelevant!
This is a professor speaking. He is proof that a professional in a skill does not equal an educated person.
Bro, he is no longer a professor in speaking, but just another sourgrape retiree past his prime watching singapore fly higher with the younger generations taking the lion share of the fruits, and push up prices of everything, yet at the same time, eroding this elder assets, if he even has any.
Borrowing for 99 years is not asset
You're a lessee not borrowing, neither are you a proprietor or sub-proprietor. Get your facts correct. Now whether you are satisfied with that bundle of rights it is up to your views.
So are all 99 years leasehold condos
It's basically a liability then....
Entire life savings in the flat? Really ah?
Original thinker which is rare in Singapore but he is no economist. He has appropriately raised alarm for us to think about. The demographic, debt and asset inflation problem are real and has cost we do not understand and should.
Tay is NOT original. He is actually narrow-minded and past his prime. He blame govt but forgot workers have freedom to get pay rise, save more, and change jobs. The more innovative and productive workers can start their own business. All can work overseas even. And the HDB homes can be sold. He is talking as if SG is absolute communist structure where jobs are allocated and pay does not rise. He is pandering to the weak, lazy and brainless. btw Tay owns private property and never work for social welfare or charity NGO before.
Nothing original about this guy. Just one of the low IQ hordes of his environment.
Singapore will one day be like her neighbouring countries n the neighbouring countries will be like Singapore. When Singapore is successful, forked tongue politicians will offer citizens' dividends n free everything. That will ensure the death of the Merlion. A young Malaysian doctor couldn't afford his own home even though it is 'dirt cheap'. A young couple (both doctors) in London could only afford a 550 sq ft apartment at the outskirt of London.
Singaporeans with the grants n subsidizd housing are still complaining loudly. God bless the Lion City.
Spot on. I've been living in Hong Kong for 2 years and when you compare the housing situation in HK to Singapore, the definition of unaffordable to Singaporeans is quite frankly, laughable in the eyes of Hong Kongers
Why not you compare the age for both countries? It's too early for Singapore to go into such high prices and accelerating
@@awkwardsmile The high prices are caused by too much cash and too little common sense. You forgot wages and bonus have been rising too. You also forgot govt is not forcing you to buy or sell your property.
@@scbchong6964 lol dafuq is this logic
@@awkwardsmile Your biatchin' n blaming n complaining is not rooted in reality, citizen. Wages are high, bonus are paid despite low innovation and productivity, and CPF interest is high, and citizens have spending appetites outsized to their actual talents and work skills, so inflation happens.
Inflation is always caused by too much cash, easy credit/loans, and too little common sense. Singaporeans like to complain about the price of everything but know the value of nothing.
Agree. All HDB unit buyers should have a citizen dividend. All of us has been investing in Singapore HDB land.
lost any credibility once he said citizen dividend. Populist approach will not work, just look at all the eurozone countries which have pensions and similar stuff facing real issue right now.
As a 31 year old Singaporean working as a security guard, gg for me I guess
With this pay, u have no future. Just rent rental flat from HDB at below market rate and enjoy your every single cents. U will only see your CPF money but no chance to use them besides medical save account. 😂 . U have nothing to lose, go big or continue this way.
He is out of touch, nothing he said is earth shattering. Everyone in the property business knows this and anyone who wants to buy/sell HDB flats after 40 years knows it too....Bala's curve isn't an economic theory, its a formula. And the price of flats, will surely deprecates but not as much as he puts it because of normal supply and demand. People prefer buying flats in mature estates.
The life lesson is this. If you bought a new flat, sell it between 30 - 40 years for a higher amount, and downsize to retire.
If you choose to hold the flat till retirement, then honestly selling your house to get a profit was never your intention. In this case get HDB to buy back your the remainder of your lease, which they will do so at a premium and receive a monthly income.
Absolutely, just so outdated a mindset and confused the weaker minds.
We are just renting a property and paying it till 99 years. I feel him…
So are all 99 years leasehold Condos. Point is nobody force you to buy a HDB flat that you cannot afford. There are many affordable 3/4 room HDBs flats in khatib/sembawang for $180k-$200k after subsidies with few takers. But no. Singaporeans being Singaporeans only choose to focus on the $800k PLH flats and say its "unaffordable"
When owning a flat, at least one only pays monthly for the housing loan which is capped max 25 or 30 years compared to renting a property where one has to pay monthly for life.
Oh how to get a loan for 99 urs? U can?
And meanwhile, in malaysia, they can have 2 storey landed house with 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms for permanently owns. Sounds nonsense right ? But it is a fact. Enjoy singaporean.
@@fillettru Singapore also has freehold as well as 99 years landed housing. However HDB is the most affordable and people will not live forever. So what is the point of being so proud over a house. Eventually when one passes on, one will leave everything behind.
Don’t really have to worry so much if the flat is old especially if it’s near/beside a mrt. There will always be demand. And so many say that the government will take back once 99 years is up. Enbloc has already began in so many places. Yes you won’t get the exact same location back but you will still have a home with a shelter..
You are misinformed. Enbloc is not automatic. The remaining lease of the property is the true indication of value and the government has gone to great lengths to emphasise that.
@@AlphaQ922 then the government just gonna leave you on the streets after 99 years lease ended? Haha come on…
Never use CPF to pay your mortgage cos u need to pay interest to the CPF money u use for mortgage on top of housing interest.
If we don't sell our flat and stay in it till we reach 55yo and have met the full retirement sum limit, we can withdraw the remaining amount in the CPF account at any time. So, even if we pay the housing grants and mortgage and all the accrued interest, we can still withdraw the money from CPF account at any time.
No diff at all. You are just paying back what you suppose to earn in interest. So it’s yours in the end.
If the government owned all these public housing and then rented them out at affordable rates to citizens, will this solve the problem mentioned by Professor Tay? Because once the lease period of the units cross the 50th year mark, it is the government which will bear the decline in property value.
This is a dumb comment, the Constitution already stated, all land is owned by the state, what 50th year, that only applies when parcels of land are alienated and leased out.
@@MrBoliao98 I was referring to the building itself, not the land. That means the owner of the building is the state or government. That means in this scenario, the citizen does not buy the land and the building. He only rents the unit from the state.
@@brandenburg2388 Balas the economist arrive at the Balas table that deals entirely with the lease. Nothing to do with building depreciation over 50 years. And honestly, only in Singapore building depreciation is such a big thing. In most old European cities or old Chinese city centres, people continue to live in their old hundred year old buildings.
@@MrBoliao98 okay, thanks for the explanation.
@@MrBoliao98 so true. When in Europe the still live in hundred years old building 😂. We in SG keep demolish less than 50 year building in the name of enbloc or redevelopment.
We reap what we sow😢😢😢😢😢😢
There are some observations which I do not agree. For example, average wages have gone up, and the average ability to finance new flats have been increasing. Young people are not in a debt trap, unless they are unrealistic in choosing the location and house size., or the interest rates rise so high and persistently so. Also, HDB resale prices have remained high because of many factors, such as and including private properties' continued strong demand due to domestic and international demand. Why does private properties remain high? That's because of many people, local and foreign, are able to put down the down payment, and make initial payments towards completion with little defaults, and that alone means that at least Singaporeans can afford the high prices. So HDB prices are propped up to keep up, unless a crash in private sector takes place. Mean time, the young people who have held HDB properties for 5 years can choose to upgrade to private properties with their appreciated capital value. There is no unhappiness in sight, for most younger Singaporeans. But as you said the young segment is "negligible", so the real question is: are the older folks suffering a depreciated value in their HDBs. The answer is apparently no, as there will be an obvious outcry if there is. So left the question about the way government is handling the accounting & cost of HDB flats. This is a question still being debated, and an equitable solution need to be found. A debate in the parliament need to be had, and the opposition MPs are doing a good job in raising concerns so let them continue with their good effort.
😂 last time I single income buy first HDB and can have 3 kids. Now a single income family of average 4.5k can live comfortably??? I voted PAP because I have multiple property and one in Australia too. I benefits from the property boom but I have to be fair to my kids that they will not be able like me to own multiple property.
Completely false, the average person's ability to finance flats has decreased dramatically. My parents with secondary education could comfortably afford a large flat. Graduates today struggle to pay off a tiny flat. HDB prices skyrocketed during the 90s with addition land sales.
@@bierdlll but did your parents go holiday frequently, drink Starbucks or bbt frequently, go restaurant frequently? Did your parents spend 100k in renovation? Young Singaporean are spoiled.
@@1965Singaporean Not everyone today can afford 100k in renovation or have frequent restaurant meals and holidays. You live comfortably from the property boom but it is selfish not to call out govt policies that made living very unaffordable and difficult for lower income groups.
Yes I do think my parents had a higher quality of life and more purchasing power in 80s-90s Singapore. Larger house, a car, stress-free jobs with shorter hours, less crowds everywhere, very good hawker food that you can't get today, way better than starbucks and restaurants today.
I don't think young Singaporeans from middle and lower income groups are spoilt at all. The previous generation actually had it easier, less stressful jobs, much less competition and more opportunities to become affluent.
@@bierdlll wah Lau! U r not in the position to say your father generation have it easy. Our NS is more siong than current generation, our generation have no google or internet, our job search is need spend money buy newspaper and buy stamp to sent out our application. our generation, including your Lau peh are hardworking and save on any money we can save, yet we give our full support to our children education even if we need to work more hour and have less. I maybe be Abit more lucky than your father, but u r not in any position to say we have it easy. I believe if our generation have current young Singaporean attitude, we are run over by Malaysian and Indonesian.
I had never view hdb as an asset. Your property will only be an asset / money making tool when you are not staying in that property. If you are buying it to stay within, it is simply a roof and hence, when we plan for retirement, the value of hdb shld not be considered as an retirement amount which you could leverage. The issue now was, a lot of older generation got their first hdb and they stayed there for their whole live and only lately releaise that the depreciating lease of the hdb affects the value of the hdb. We regards to this matter on depreciating lease and declining of value on lease lesser than 50 years, the government is trying buy back the lease from older folks .... and they have to be able to manage this demand from the baby boomers, else the prices of hdb will plummet. Following when hdb plummet, it will be a pull down factor on private properties too.this is also the reason why PRs could buy resale hdb, that is the create demands for the hdb units
Whether we want to purchase an asset or not is entirely based on one's needs. Recognising the decreasing value of a lease hold property is also part of one's due diligence.
Hold more hope and learning financial literacy will help many in planning for their retirement.
Please 🙏 🙏 rally all Singaporeans to defeat the arrogant Government
So what the solution to these degrading "asset enhancement".
Is our bto really unaffordable? Personally i think its not. I took out a 25 year hdb loan, currently at my 4th year of repayment, based on projection, i would have paid it off with my cpf in another 4 years time. Accrued interest is going to be a bitch though.
My parents with secondary school education could comfortably afford a flat without a loan. A much larger flat than what graduates can afford today. HDB Prices skyrocketed during the 90s with land sales.
I Beg to differ! I see 2 camps in sg :
1. Camp 1 : super shiok happy with asset appreciation especially those in the richer people hdb precinct estates.
They are grinning ear to ear unable to believe their flats are now abt 1 million sgd when they bought for just 100k,200k or 300k. Some even feel a bit guilty of this potential windfall.
2. Camp 2 : Asset appreciation regarded as making them having to keep working just to afford an "Highly Affordable" public housing whose price generally keep rising by significant amounts every year. They view high price of flat means also high price of buying another. Zero sum game like that.
So i hope to hear more from each camp to help me, a Middle Voter Decide. Thank You many many
You forgot to account for economic cycles such as 1997 asian currency crisis where HDB resale prices dropped 30%. Inflation is always caused by too much cash and too little common sense. btw Tay forgot to account for rising wages, productivity, innovation, increasing savings and the fact that citizens can change jobs, start a business or even work overseas. He talk as if SG is pure communist structure where jobs are allocated by govt and pay is fixed.
@@scbchong6964 So you belong to Camp 1 or 2?😁 Financial crisis of course everything worldwide generally drop price. But the sg property market rebound super fastest in the world. I not worried about super high flat prices as the future generation will inherit the prices and its them who will bear the pressure. As long as its not us, why bother?
@@malita354 You should talk to those who have solved problems and earned a living, rather than those who are still students, or oldies who like to point finger and blame govt. btw I bought HDB resale at 1996 highs, and sold at a 30% loss 9 years later. Then I bought private property at 2006 lows.
Why young singaporeans want to be spoonfed success: Prices must be low whenever you want to buy, and highest whenever you want to sell. Is that realistic? btw you working yet? Paying any income tax, road tax or property tax? Are you contributing to household expenses? Or you living rent-free under your parents' roof?
@@scbchong6964 agree with your property strategy buy low sell high
@@malita354 Actually more about personal money management, good savings habit and having a problem-solving attitude at your job. Also being prepared and knowing when the economy is inflated. And no need to blame others because most problems are caused by your own fault and the choices you made.
doubt there will be any perm or 1 size solve all solution for this, as a person living in this ecosystem, we just have to choose correctly. most importantly, is we must have a choice. and i think the 2 room flexi plan is the answers to most of our issues. those in 55yo or older should downgrade to a 2 room flexi and cash out their old flats. with the difference, you can tie over your retirement. there is a life cycle to our choices, living in your HDB for life is not one. you got to cash out when the time comes. don't be fool by the HDB is an asset when the lease is eroding and your cash turns to ash.
Thats right, for most younger people, who haven buy house. They gotta resign to smaller flat.
Aaaaaa.....aaaa....aaaa... so the solution is to rent? Or buy private? Aaaa .... aaaa
Telling half truths is really terrible. If the Govt is willing to give ppl their CPF MONIES and financial literacy, then pubic housing will be public housing.
All were mislead by Goh Say Tax. He mislead to whole of Singapore.😢 In fact Philip Yeo will one those who disagree with this "Asset Enhancement" in Parliament during Goh's time. Old Goh at that time ask Philip Yeo to sit down and shut up because he is not a elected MP, thus no rights to speak up for Singaporean in Parliament.
Johor Bahru' Eco Botanic. Freehold. 2 storey landed home. 260sqm Only around $350K.
WFH. You can have a car.
Why make life so difficult, must debate here and there?
He DID sound like an 'angry old man' with NOTHING added to the conversation. Not saying that everything he said is incorrect. The environment and setup of the scenario is correct.
The implication and analysis is just wishful thinking.
uncle, u cannot articulate all the points - u talk abou HDB and then go out of points.
But hor as a propertiessss owner I will continue to vote PAP😂. But with ABSD rise to 17% I cannot buy more property I may not vote PAP in next election.
Irrelevant you are
Do you trust your agent's home valuation? Ever wondered about your neighbor's selling and rental price? #HomerAI by #Ohmyhome
A citizen divodend....sounds reasonable.
So it is for the rest of all developed countries. RIP. 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Title shud be: Selling of HDB flats as assets IS Singapore's greatest housing mistake.
Inflated HDB is all because PAP have access to cheap loan from CPF. So when GIC and temasek investment go wrong or need more money, PAP just take from CPF lor. When need to return CPF to citizens, PAP make it difficult to withdraw from CPF by rising the withdrawing age and sell inflated HDB. LOL. By importing new citizens to contribute to CPF lor, PAP never solve the birthrate problem.
Birthrate is for citizens to solve, right? You married yet? Or you want to allow the Minister to bed your wife?
👍👍👍👍👍
RENTS PAID IN ADVANCE.....99 YEAR
Buying 4-5room HDB cost $500,000/99 years/12 months = monthly rental of $420 or you can refuse to buy and start renting from the beginning with $3000 per months, which option would you chose?
Pap solution for this is to bring in more new citizens.
Those people who make their money from the property market won't see a problem. I wonder who is the group of people complaining. Maybe it's those can't afford to wait for bto or not eligible to buy bto one.
The biggest problem is the coming CBDC
Most Singaporeans not worried because they are already accustomed to the g telling what to do and they just obey. They are already accustomed to losing their privacy in exchange for convenience. They are already accustomed to feeling hopeless and not fighting for their rights etc
VTO better than BTO
👍👍👍👍👍9MAY2023.....3.00PM
I'll throw in another interesting insight.
If you want to start a family at 30 in your own HDB apartment, you need to find your wife/husband when you are 22 years old.
1) date for 2 years
2) apply BTO for 1 year
3) BTO 5 years to build
If you are an average Singaporean, and you use all the possible grants and 100% of your CPF, chances are you will not be able to hit the minimum sum in your retirement account.
If you are smart enough to invest and plan your finances, congratulations, you are not "an average Singaporean".
Why would you want your money to go into CPF. If you're financially savvy, you're there sniggering at how you managed to not max out your CPF account.
@@MrBoliao98 I see what you mean, but its not what I was trying to say. The system itself is flawed in my opinion, if its people makes full use of it (housing wise), they will not be able to hit the minimum sum when they retire.
Do correct me if I am wrong.
@@thomsonjohn4924 when you have to engage in such a systematic extractive manner to maximise every thing, you don't necessarily get a better economy or a better life. Getting attached and registering for a flat at 22, honestly do you even know yourself at the age, wait 10 years down the road divorce worse still.
@@MrBoliao98 Again, completely valid points put across by you.
You're right, at 22, most probably won't know themselves. Which also means with the current demographics, the younger generations are starting families late into their 30s. Simply add (the age you decide to get married) + (5 years BTO). Is starting a family in the 30s simply by choice? Or by circumstances?
I am pretty sure as well the above is one of the contributing factors to lower and lower birthrates the country is facing.
While I don't necessarily get a better life if I try to maximise everything, the crux of the issue here is, the whole idea of CPF itself, in my opinion, is well thought out, but execution left lots of room for improvement.
I just googled and saw, 33% at 55, did not hit the minimum sum in 2021. In 2023, its $102,900. Is it not concerning that 33% cannot even save $102,900? Take away half (to exclude those that have better investment portfolios than CPF), that'll still be 16%.
😂😂😂 22 year old many Singaporean still doing NS or still studying leh. So need parents to help down payment for HDB? 😂😂😂 Last time under LKY I single income can have 3 kids and a fully pay HDB easily. Trust me, don't contribute to CPF if u have a way to do so.
Unsure about your agent's home valuation accuracy? Want to know your neighbor's selling and rental price? #HomerAI by #Ohmyhome
What asset to sell ??? U only have 1 HDB flat ~ sell high then u need to buy high; where is the alternative roof over your head.
So, it is basically downgrading your lifestyle. Is that so proud to say that I have downgraded.
There was a concept of postal price ~ this negate market value and was made void.
Why blame govt when you have free choice to choose when to sell? You also forgot workers have freedom to get pay rise, save more or change to better jobs. They have freedom to retrain and upgrade. The more innovative and productive start their own business. All can even work overseas for higher pay and rewards. SG is not absolute communist structure where jobs are allocated for life and pay is fixed.
@@scbchong6964
You r small minded that cannot think creatively. Life isn’t much of $ in your pockets but what $ can bring delights to your hearts.
B4 there was postal price ~ it is a fixed price whereby HDB determines the value. B4 COE a Japanese car was only $30k. Both items r concerns that impinges our daily social lives. For the the average Singaporeans daily lives r getting difficult because of the amount of “tax”, governmental induced rising prices. U must be riding on a “borrowed” high horse ~ u speak of labour mobility to better living. There is no better living if you r trading labour for $. D only option is to work your $ to earn more $ ~ u need to create a $base to enable that; being it economically Bourgeoisie vs Proletariat.
I remembered both a Minister n President making a mistake in asking the average Singaporeans to buy fish if chicken is too expensive. How aloof is the 4G leadership, that they do not know the basics affecting the Singaporeans. R they too insulated or remote from the people???
Painful to hear... Err... Err .. Err..
How can a HDB flat be an asset when you cannot will to your children, use it as pledge for an overdraft or even sell it without giving part of the profits to HDB. Prof Michael Hudson says that inflation is the govt's way of --------- money from the people. Looking at the price of HDB flats, it started its surge in GCT's time, when he said the doubling of the price of HDB flats was to increase the value of Singaporeans assets. Now you know it is not so. Now Singaporeans are faced with million dollar flats. Who benefits from all this inflation?
Why is there a need to will the HBD to your children? Why should taxpayers subsidize your HDB only to be willed to your children. You want your cake and eat it too? Go buy a private property and will it to whoever you want. Prices of HDB flat only surge because of supply and demand. Because people like you only want prime location flat. Go to outskits of Kranji, Sembawang, Khatib, etc. So many affordable flats but you choose to complain like spoilt brats
I wonder the $100 or so voucher that hand out to citizens. Does it equivalent to the citizen dividend that Dr. talking about? If not what is the difference?
Kheng Soon, you stay in private property. You are rich people and talking K
I propose make all HDB FREEHOLD? 😆😆😆😆
This one is a turn coat , eat PAP rice earlier now say policies all wrong!
Let the Great Asia enlighten you:
Divide the population of the country into two halves, let's call the first half the "Landlord", and the next half the "Peasant". The Peasant works for the Landlord and makes them richer. The landlord then uses the new wealth to acquire more lands. What do you think would happen to the children and grandchildren of the Peasant?
More than 50% of future generations will be born in HDB 4-rm flats and trapped in HDB 4-rm flats for life. Remind you, new HDB 4-rm flats will not have space for toddler to crawl after putting in furniture.
Tragically, in the past decades, PAP has built so many little HDB flats and condos. There will be a huge angst from Singaporeans who are not able to upgrade to a bigger living space.
Imagine a population density of more than 10,000 per sqkm, and people living in compact spaces in perpetual.
There will be huge, huge social and political problems. The ruling elites are too rich, too elitist, and too self-serving, they can't see the problems.
Last, many HDB flats will be above 40 years in less than 10 years.
Ha ha ha!
Same sentiment here bro, im rubbing my hands waiting for the mass of old hdb lease n value spiral down, so that the younger flat will sudden shot up in prices.
PAP's fall is a matter of time
And who can do a better job? WP? Laughable. Esp when WP openly said they are PAP team B. Why settle for the reserves? The rest has no chance of winning even 1 seat
As long most voter are homeowners and their house are holding or increasing in values, PAP will stay. Its a very straightforward choice. I bet that you are staying in papa house isnt it?
*Being able to provide all my needs without the help of the Government is really a dream come through and I’m getting $43,050 returns from my $7k investment*
@Cameron Richard After I got up to $300k trading with Mrs Bonita Lynn Yetter i bought a new House and I'm now able to send my kids to a better school in the states thanks to her. When someone is straight forward with what he or she is doing people will always speak up for them.
Wow😮I know Mrs Bonita and I have also been trading with her, she's such an amazing woman with good skills keeps me happy all week knowing I earn 15thousand extra income trading with her.
she will guide you👇👇
That's her Whatsappinfo chat her up she's mostly active there👆👆
Change garmen lah, give worker party a chance
and then the hdb problem will be solved in 5 years?
@@issacphoa7536 Will not solve the problem but at least to show the incumbent that people's power matters.
Worker party 😂😂 don't make me laugh la.
@@rogerfaint499 and? Let WP destroy the country in 5 years they are in charge with poorly thought out policies?
PAP has been the ruling party for so long and yet unable to solve, you think by changing a new ruling party can solve the issues? I doubt so...
When he talked about 'dividend'....listeners clapped their hands..
Hahaha, people clap their hands because they see the immediate return but not the consequences