I don’t know if you read RUclips comments, but as a high school language arts teacher: THANK YOU for having this debate. Taxpayers, not just parents, fund education- and we all have differing opinions. We can’t just teach the majority opinion, we have to teach facts. I teach in a semi-rural, semi-suburban conservative district and there have been plenty of parents pushing back on us teaching To Kill a Mockingbird/discussing Jim Crow, reading They Called Us Enemy/discussing Japanese internment, or discussing the following concepts as context for our American Literature course: Native American genocide, slavery, exoticism, white savior narratives, romanticism of historical figures, feminism, Native American boarding schools, Chinese exclusion, the achievability of the American Dream in our quasi capitalist society, redlining, dual consciousness, and more. Should I just lie, or not cover these topics because some parents don’t like them? I am a professional with a masters degree, so why do the parents get to dictate what I teach even if it doesn’t align with facts?
It’s unfortunate that you as a public servant have to be on the front lines of the war being waged against creating empathetic knowledgeable citizens. The point of public education should always be to create a better society, and therefor a better future. Let’s be honest though, the point of this entire conservative movement is indoctrination, because the uneducated tend to vote on their emotions, and the entirety of the conservative strategy is to weaponize fear, and ignorance. People who understand how to approach a subject critically very rarely will vote, or live their lives in general to hurt others, or climb upon their neighbors backs to get over whatever obstacles they may face. Keep fighting the good fight, and know there are plenty of us parents out here who will be doing our part to make sure that you can actually do the work that you spent so much time being able to do.
Because they dropped out of junior high school to have kids at 14, so they should know a thing or twenty about education. Not you with your little Masters. Lol!
I really respect this guy. He really engage in a discussion on good faith, and willing to engage different ideas. I would give him standing ovation, even though i was a debater on high school and college.
In kindergarten, I was told not to he racist by my teacher quite explicitly. I literally remember it to this day, and it has been informative to my growth as an individual, and that is to say that teachers telling kids "hey dont be a dipshit for someone's immutable characteristics" is actually.... good. Cause childhood is your formative years, and you should be trying to inform kids of how to be good people.
Yeah same here. In Kindergarten was the first time I ever heard of MLK and that racism was even a thing which I hadn't considered before. Then in first or 2nd grade I watched an educational animated film called Our Friend Martin that went deeper for kids to understand and those teachings always stuck with me in a positive way. Also in 4th grade was when I was introduced to sorta sex ed but the topic was more so on kids being alert to inappropriate behavior amongst adults and to tell their teachers if they see anything bad
@@Spongebrain97 I think that's exactly as sex ed should be for kids- and it's only as they get older that other pertinent details have to be included into their sex ed.
Yeah, the problem with just making a blanket statement about respecting other people is that with racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. there is an element of dehumanization. So, in that situation they might get the message that doing that one thing to a black person is bad and just move from being overtly racist to doing things that are less obvious that are still traumatizing. It's important to instill that everyone is human early on otherwise that default bigotry taught by parents becomes ingrained and harder to change.
A lot of times we say "racism is learned" But what's often left out from being said IS "anti-racism" is learned Just like sharing. Turns out values, both good AND bad, have to be taught Humans are only biologically social. What being social means is dictated by 100% nurture, not nature It's our loss if we think good values are encoded in the DNA somehow
@Jacob B I was thinking of the same thought, except I was thinking of First Nation American Elder speech on humans are born good vs humans can be good under the right conditions. Can't remember his name or find the link but it's nice to think, he and Aristotle would have got along.
He is definitely one of the most honest conservatives he's ever had on. It took a little pushing, but he was actually talked into realizing how faulty his logic was and admitted it. That's incredibly rare. He's probably an honest person that's just been fed so much propaganda that he never thought to question it.
I agree, I hate that chat kept getting kind of shitty towards him. Calling him an idiot and a dumbass etc… like yeah some of the things he said were stupid, but he came in good faith trying to discuss things and learn from it. Idiots don’t try to learn they just persist in their beliefs and behaviors.
I don't think deep down this guy is actually a conservative at all, even if he identifies as one. He thinks like a lefty who has been stuck in a conservative media bubble being influenced by their lies for too long.
Then they vote on those things they personally feel are wrong and make them political. Gas stoves were a personal preference for a while now. Now we see conservative politicians talking about how gas stoves are our god given right, and conservative voters taking a side for gas stoves. If, in the future, we begin to see subsidies for gas in gas stoves to make gas stoves cheaper in the long run, and tariffs on imports of electric stoves from other nations, it becomes a political issue.
The two races: White and Political. The two genders: Male and Political. The two sexual orientations: Straight and Political. The two nationalities: American and Political.
Amazing video, the dude has some bad ideas but holy shit, he backed off them when he got enough pushback to realize they were goofy... SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THEIR ARGUMENT AND CARES ABOUT BEING WRONG, amazing, truly incredible, a unicorn of the Right-wing of our time
Vaush had been complaining about it being hard/impossible to find a Conservative who will argue, because they're so deep into denying reality that no arguement works if they deny even argueing. But this guy is actually being there as a real human, you can literally hear him pick out points and go "well that's true but it aught to be..." wrong or not, that's a measurable response he's working from. I don't think anyone expected this guy. Good surprise.
I think this is what vaush means-- debates are only fun when the person actually gives a shit about their beliefs and truth, and a lot of the debates where the person just screetches 5 talking points and joker laughs for 2 hours are boring. Like I dont even need the opposition to concede, they just gotta care
@Coral -- going to have to fire back on this, not quite There certainly are normal everyday "conservatives" who take on some opinions and do it with a real admission of problems. But Conservative "voters" are a whole different story.. a lot of what we'd call normal conservatives are not politically motivated and take a whole bunch of ideas from politics they experience but don't think about, so when questioned, they're usually very responsive and stick onto the problem. but a *lot* of [Republican] voters, not just conservatives, are held up on political goals and team-mentality, they may not argue in harsh or scummy ways, but they will outright deny issues or take on the political agenda of their side "Trump made jobs!" Or "we don't know the long term effects on the vaccine" are *nice* versions and not ultimately that common as others. But of course, debates do bring out the worst people, so that's true there for Vaush and our perspective online
@@imcoral Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree with this one too. If you find a conservative who will call themselves conservative and actively say something about not supporting Trump, then this may be the normal that you run into. But at this point, most conservatives were Trump supporters and still may well be. After all, despite Trump's record low approval rating, the Republicans usually held at about 90% approval rating of him. Those kinds of people are not people willing to back off their positions. I've spoken with conservatives in my life who genuinely have just off the wall beliefs. I've been told a number of times by certain conservatives that after 9/11, we should've turned Saudi Arabia to glass. The meaning being, we should've nuked the entire country to oblivion. A majority of conservatives are not able to reasoned with. Many of them cannot follow genuine lines of logic and that's because being a conservative now literally requires cognitive dissonance
This isn't a conservative; this is a person who thinks they're conservative and really just hasn't made up their own mind about anything. You calmly and clearly explain, they say "that makes sense", and then they change their minds.
That _should_ be how it works for everybody, unfortunately most conservatives don't actually even believe any of the arguments they're making in the first place.
It's a fairly ignorant person who hasn't explored most issues but who mainly listens to conservative media. We are watching him learn about these issues in real time and have his mind swayed. This is why conservatives hate higher education. When you actually learn the facts about many issues you suddenly realize how much better the left-leaning side is.
funny, on left wing reddit I've been called a conservative who thinks he's a centrist, even though I'm actually left leaning hahah vaush's youtube comment section is much, much better place than reddit. reddit is full of pricks
Hell, I had teachers who espoused some sussy and factually-untrue stuff, and they didn't get fired for that--because they were sneaky, or because nothing they said ran afoul of the administration or parents. But, yes, fascists and fundamentalists are the epitome of "my feelings don't care about the facts."
This guy is an example of how media consumption changes you. He is perfectly ok in his head. He seems probably ok on a personal level. The problem is that his brain has been filled with conservative brainrot
@@eriksvensson6054 he doesn't have a learning disability. That sounds like something the teacher would say to teach the class not to bully kid with down syndrome,
definitely the case, like freedom of speech, literally there are countless examples where right wing pushes for policies that goes against the idea of 1st ( i just with Vaush brought the Anti BDS laws that are literally on the books now in the red states!), but somehow he got convinced that the left is pushing for it??
"If that's the lifestyle that you want to live" is such a telling position for a conservative to take. It shows that deep down they believe that anything but the norm is a choice, and not a character trait or identity.
For many people sexuality and gender is a choice. It is the incorrect form to speak about sexuality like this. It's honestly extremely weird to me that leftists who posture as if they read queer theory posit the right to orientate as a linear, fixed and rigid phenomena. It is extremely hetero-normative to imply that orientation is another word for essentialism. If it's not a choice then it's ultimately an injunction and therefore can be corrupted by the state and therefore becomes intrinsically political. This is why being "hetero" is now strangely a political position. The losing theoretic is the "born this way" mode because it gives heteros and their statist guards a formal right to their violently imposed normativity. which is a pseudo fact that must be dislodged from the unconscious of the status quo. in order to unclog this subject from politics, and allow real progress to be made, both sides must forsake their Truth. Otherwise it will always remain a dialectical impasse
@@funhousemirror8870 It's not a choice, but it's also fluid. I don't think that's any more contradictory than saying that someone's personality is produced by thier environment and experiences but can change over time. By the same token, people develop basic traits of personality that sick with them as they develop - it's much the same for sexuality and gender.
@@funhousemirror8870 You cant choose to suddenly like something that you dont like, and vice versa. Its also not essentialist to say that peoples tastes arent a choice, you can not choose something and have it change.
@@hand13932 pretty basic terminology, argumentation and logic. nothing profound or even really out there, especially if you read philosophy. if you can't refute what I said then probably don't get your didactics from memes
A missing piece of his argument is the counterpoint - if some parents find "teaching gayness" to be objectionable because they pay taxes and don't agree, what about the people who also pay taxes and DO want it to be taught?
The construction of “the taxpayer” as some priviledged class has been used for a long time to dogwhistle bigotry. It used to be (and still is to an extent) that “taxpayer” was code for “white people” once it became unacceptable to just say that “white people should have a say” over others.
What about the people who are gay and pay taxes and don’t want to have themselves not represented in this public service? It doesn’t make sense on it’s face, and that is because it is not literally referring to tax payers, it is referring to a privileged class who believe their voice should count for more than others, and I am 99% sure that the guy in this video doesn’t consciously understand that, he is just repeating what he has heard.
I have been wondering this myself, recently. Conservative parents forget that there are families with more liberal leaning values. That there are parents, who want their kids to get an education which differs from that of conservative parents. I guess this is merely a symptom of the conservative virus - that in any facet of politics, only conservative values matter.
Well he could argue "well, majority of the state wants it banned, so it should be banned". It's bad to try to rationalize this with "popularity", especially because often in USA your elections end up 51 - 49. So it's better to use the argument of logic and american values - you should teach kids it's okay to be black, gay, trans etc., because it is fine...
@@BeSk9991 I get that but sometimes the first step is to get them to actually acknowledge that other people think differently from them in the same lens tbag they're viewing the problem
My problem with whole debate in the us is this. Someone's identity is not political. Someone being gay or trans. Is not inherently political. That is just who they are. It is just as political for me to say I have a girlfriend or that im straight. No one's saying that's political to mention you have a significant other of whatever gender. Yet we do with gay and trans. That is not political. We make it political because of bias's people have against them.
Nothing is inherently political but also everything is political to a degree. If you want it to not be political then you must fight and win the politics. Saying that the problem with the gender debate is that it is political is like having a ship sink and saying "my problem with this ship is that it has holes in it". Yes. We know. We fix the holes to make it stop being political
Yeah, it's not Inheritly, but as long as opposing them is something a specific political group does, like the Cons with Trans and Gay people, then being in favour, speaking of, and in general talking about them, is Political, because it's against a different political position
Isn't it? There was a time where being Jewish was very political. Human beings excel at being douchebags. Churches and trailer parks. . . Scratch that because saying trailer parks was redundant. Anyway, churches are breeding grounds for hate and these things vote.
@@thenerdyanarchist3492 something becoming a political issue does not make it inherently political. global warming is not inherently political. it's just a natural process of the earth and it's functions, but we "make it" political through the way we decide to discuss and think about it.
Yeah that's why at this point I consider the entire Republican party a death cult. They use actual brainwashing techniques on people. Good people and misguided people. Like yeah a lot of them are genuinely hateful and evil, but a good chunk of them are just brainwashed and it makes my blood fucking boil. Imagine how much less power the Republicans would have if they weren't allowed to dominate media and the internet so much.
I live in the Midwest. The vast majority of politically conscious adults sound like this guy. Fascism is a boogeyman and all that matters is that we compromise no matter what
I haven't watched the video yet but I have been on twitter once so I believe this whole heartedly or at least will pretend so that people who don't like vowsh will like me.
"Around controversal issues is where indoctrination can be applied" ...why is the concept that queer people are people and should be treated as people such a controversal issue? Why has the right made this a controversal issue?
While people are mad at queer or trans people (or muslims, or jews, or hispanic, or blacks, or ...), they're distracted from getting mad at constantly being fucked over by the insanely rich oligarchs that rule America
Because it is paramount, in their worldview, that "purity" is maintained, and rigid gender norms are upheld. Trans people are the antithesis to rigid gender norms.
This guy sounds like the large percentage of regular conservatives in the US, and this was revealed at the point that he admitted he had made any mental comparisons to the modern equality debate with the civil rights movement. It's a kind of blissful ignorance where they simply "do not like new thing" without AT ALL peeling back aby layers or making the effort to learn more and grow, it's a complete revulsion of the controversy at all, they simply don't care and don't want to care, but actually could be made to care if engaged and pinned down in a respectful manner. This is hard right now because we are all so ready to fight against the absolute bonkers fascists and openly horrific monsters who share these positions. And it's really hard to tell who is who until we'll engaged.
@@themachine5647My mother is in this same boat, or was. We gotta speak to these moderate conservatives before they get sucked into the fascism, show them an honest portrayal of our side in place of Fox News or whatever. It seriously pays dividends.
It is refreshing to hear a dude actually digest the arguments rather than dismiss them out of hand by pretending there is no conflict in stated principles or consequences to their ideological goals
I literally felt gender dysphoria at 6 years old. I was attracted to boys and girls when I was in 5th grade. The only problem is I didn’t have language around those feelings. I couldn’t articulate my gender dysphoria because it’s like conceptualizing a puffalope (do you know what that is? Can you picture it? Whatever you think it is you’re wrong) But if it had been able to talk to someone about those feelings and given language around it years of pain would have disappeared. But sure, let’s trust my mother who advocated at my state’s Supreme Court for torturing gay kids to make them straight to teach me. Thank god she didn’t know and I had the good sense to not tell her about me kissing the neighbor boy (same age as me) or where I stashed my girls cloths in my room. I prob wouldn’t be here to type this comment.
@Jacob B 🤔 Interesting. So, you’d say your parents were relatively supportive then? And yet you still had massive internal dissidence, yeah? Just curious because I feel like I had a similar experience. Curious to know more specifics in your case. Context: I was born in ’86 and grew up in the 90s. My parents were very liberal (but still religious to some extent; we started going to church weekly when I was six). My mom is like one of those “loves the theater” kind of persons. And my dad is an art teacher. Just trying to paint a picture. When I was six was when I first got told how gay people have sex (but it was because I asked). Also, I was into acting as a kid- and I loved playing dress up. I especially liked dressing up as female characters (sometimes old hag women funnily enough), and at one point I really wanted a dress. When I was 5, my mom actually bought me a costume dress to play in. Others thought she was crazy. Anyway, both my parents have always been “we’ll accept you no matter what.” I mean, at one point when I was six or seven and saying things like “I wish I were a girl,” they were saying things like “well, if when you’re 18 and you still feel that way, there’s an operation that can change you.” Now, I don’t identify as trans; I’m just a gay man (although I have had some people tell me I just repressed some of it), but the weird thing is that despite always being told I would be accepted, my mom was very much of the attitude “well, if you’ve never been with a woman, how do you know?” Even to this day-almost 19 years after my mom knew about my first male relationship and about 12 years after “officially” coming out-I _still_ get the feeling that she’d prefer it not be her son. Anyway, I’ve rambled for far too long. Just curious if you had a similar experience.
Yeah, I was definitely "already bi" in kindergarten and probably had more, uh... curious encounters with other boys than girls at those young ages. Anyone who thinks sexuality isn't an inherent trait that is pretty much immediately a part of who you are is just objectively wrong. Can't speak to the dysphoria aspect but it seems like the same is true for gender based on people saying it is, not that hard to just accept people's experiences at face value when that's all we have.
@jacobb3573 "Nothing is inherent" is probably a stronger statement than you want to commit to, a huge part of who we are is determined by our environment but your genes definitely play a significant role as well. Especially since we're essentially talking about the urge to reproduce, one of the most fundamental of our evolutionary instincts. If you raised a hetersexual man and woman in a philosophical void removed from all other socialization don't you think they might eventually think "hey, I'd like to bone that" without having to learn the concept of attraction first? Certain aspects of your sexual preferences are most likely learned, sure. Being into tattoos for example would be probably incoherent as a thing to be "inherently attracted to" since that it's unlikely anyone's genes could possibly be selecting for that. But just "I am attracted to men/women/whatever" is absolutely innate, I think you'd have a really difficult time demonstrating any alternative.
@jacobb3573 I think you're just speaking a different language at this point, since that isn't what those words mean when 99% of the population uses them. Do you agree that you have your genes when you are born and don't "obtain" them from something external later? Do you agree that those genes can influence sexuality? If you answered yes to both then that's all I was saying, I'm not interested in getting into some abstract debate about whether or not we should redefine any of those words for reasons unrelated to the conversation.
@jacobb3573 Ok, so you're definitely just using words wrong then. Epigenetics is a new layer in the study of genetics but has not "replaced" genes, you still have a base genetic foundation which is expressed differently based on these contextual influences. Not only is this still the prevailing scientific understanding but it also works from a common sense perspective. If you have a kid they are far more likely to look somewhat like you and inherit some of your genetic traits than they are to resemble some random person on the other side of the world (or to be even more extreme, they've very unlikely to be a squirrel, even though if all genetic foundations were truly equal before factoring in the environment we wouldn't expect to see such clear species distinctions). Nobody is saying "it's all genes and environment doesn't matter," so by bringing up epigenetics like this you're correcting no one while accidentally stumbling into the opposite unscientific position of "it's all environment and genes don't matter." And again none of this has anything to do with the actual conversation or original point.
This guy was nice enough, he just has conservative brain worms. Perfect example of this: "Do you think 5 year olds can be gay or trans?" Vaush: "Absolutely". Dude: "Are you sure?" Vaush: "yes, here are examples of that". Dude: "Oh, I guess you're right." Like, they literally have NEVER thought of, or read about, or watched even the most basic real world examples of what actually happens outside of conservative news bubbles. He has never heard a gay man say "I knew I was gay when I was 8" even though he asked that question in a debate to help his own point. Not because he was sure that he was right that kids can't be gay before puberty, but because he has literally never bothered to think about it.
There’s also the moment where he said he never thought to apply this situation go desegregation. Like, what? Did he seriously spend that little time thinking of this?
@@samiamrg7 Probably? Conservatives aren't know for encouraging critical thinking iirc. I knew I liked girls since I was five. Between kindergarten and 9th grade I fell in love with Kaitlyn, Sarah, Kassandra, Louise, Ruby, three female teachers and had a crush on the vice principal. PHUCK I can't believe how much better my life would be if my kindergarten teacher had told me "It's okay for girls to marry each other" instead of only my parents saying "God burns homosexuals in hell" and then thinking I'd have to spend the rest of my life alone because I knew I never wanted to marry a boy and have babies. I'm 30 and I'm still alone, I don't think those scars are ever going away. I went to see The Book of Mormon a couple years ago with a friend. I had to leave the theatre when the closeted character began singing.
I don't think he would even question me saying I knew I was straight when I was 5 or so years old. Had a girl in my kindergarden class who wore white fishnets and I could not look away lol
A good portion of people that fall into societal expectations don't have the realization of what they're actually supposed to be like until they're moved enough to realize, "Ah, I don't like this but that". LGT kids realize it early on because "Oh, what I'm supposed to like feels wrong but what I'm not supposed to like feels better". The B and Q, from my experience and what Vaush has stated himself in this video, might not happen until much later because they sometimes fall in line with society and "those temptation are normal, just stay on the straight and narrow". I even remember a Podcaster saying he knew he liked guys but also girls and he thought he was straight with temptations...until he learned bisexuality was a thing because he was told gay was a choice and thought everyone had these weird feelings for other men. Cis, hetero, white men live in a privileged bubble of don't think, just keep going, and then they learn they're heterosexual, cis, white, or men much later because it's never been an issue until puberty, or picking clothes for yourself that you like, or they make friends that have a different culture, or that dating women isn't always like being friends with a man.
I almost feel bad watching how hard these people struggle to rationalize their back-asswards ideologies to anyone outside the echo chamber but aspire to treat them with greater patience and empathy. Thanks Vaush.
Oh TELL me about it. When this guy says something like"Well teaching people about gay stuff would be horrible" and Vaush asks "Why".... and then there is a 15 second silence....
Its incredible that any conservative who is trying to be good faith like this guy can just have his whole ideology shook by comments like, “what if this was for black people” and “delta variant lowered the effective % rate.”
It really feels like a confidence thing. Conservative media tells people "lefties are just idiots who don't know what they are talking about, we are the experts" and they go with that uncritically despite having 0 evidence given or doing their own research. This isn't even shade directed at them in particular. It's just the way conservative media really seems to take advantage of and weaponize their base. If they tell them all of the arguments are stupid, don't bother looking into them, then it makes people compliant and unwilling to hear out any arguments. It's effective and, honestly, terrifying.
Banning “discussion of LGBTQ issues” in books also makes me think of that one Max and Ruby book where Max, basically a toddler, puts on some of his mom’s makeup, jewelry and a dress and it is silly. It is technically drag if you go by loose definition, but by the letter of the law, that book could get a teacher put in prison.
"Maybe we shouldn't charge them with felonies but we should definitely fire them" Someone needs to ask this guy how he feels about cancel culture, his response would probably be quite entertaining considering the above.
"Kids shouldn't be taught controversial things" I was in school and 9/11 was addressed the next day with an assembly. (I think a few days later) No harm is done.
To be clear. It is FAR better to live in a system where people often have to wait to see a specialist, than to live in a system where people often cannot afford to see a specialist. At least the former is vaguely democratic, and doesn't just filter who lives and who dies by how much money they have.
@@hagoryopi2101 You just die unable to afford the care without any other choice. You should watch your compium intake. Wouldn't want to not be able to afford care if you become addicted.
@@hagoryopi2101 on a more serious note. If you think people are dying left and Right under decomodified healthcare due to "wait times" you are deluded. People do however die left and Right due to lack of funds in a private system.
@@eelvis1674 when you only have to buy healthcare once (rather than twice after paying Canada taxes only for them to direct you to MAID, or paying Britain taxes only to end up on a two year wait list for cancer screening when you may have only months to live), and when healthcare is actually private so providers can actually offer competitive pricing (as opposed to the highly corporatized American market where regulations protect providers from market forces), providers have to compete for your service by keeping a good balance of cost and quality. That helps keep things affordable. And even if you can't afford it yourself for some reason, there are loans. There's crowdfunding. There's spending your healthier years saving so you have money when you're older and may need more healthcare. There are plentiful options (as opposed to being taxed out your ears for "healthcare" which doesn't actually care). You can argue these are damaging to one's dignity, but I'd rather beg on the internet or the street than have doctors tell me to delete myself in Minecraft because I'm nothing more than a tax and vote cow who's too expensive for them to save anymore, rather than a human being capable of demonstrating my own value in the world.
@@hagoryopi2101 bro you can throw out as much private healthcare apologia as you like, write an essay 10,000 words long describing in detail every way in which a market and competition makes healthcare better. THE UNITED STATES HAS THE WORST HEALTHCARE OUTCOMES IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD. You simply cannot get around the data. In specific reply to your comment though, healthcare in the US is more expensive than it is in Britain or Canada. So I won't hear shit about how you pay for it though taxes. And wait times are a manufactured problem. Literally all it requires to fix is more money. Which we have infinite of.
This is a great example of showing a centrist how centrism is dangerous. You can’t give equal air to fact and fiction when teaching facts. Cheers to the debater for keeping an open mind while arguing your point. I can tell your listening instead of waiting to talk.
I wouldn't necessarily say this is a danger of being a centrist.. Honestly, if anything this is a glowing recommendation to being a centrist. Dude was confronted by facts and he was willing to listen, which is why most people take up centrist positions to begin with. Someone who can listen to both sides and being able to agree on good points and being able to refute bad points is the ideal we should strive for. This sorta covering your ears and not even bothering to listen to what the other side says leads to extremism and people readily are willing to accept extremism(Remember this applies to both the Right and Left in America). There are varying degrees when it comes to this stuff. This dude clearly thought there was something appalling about the idea of kids being taught Gender non-conforming stuff and I don't see the problem. I have never found an issue with this. This coming from someone who has consumed a lot of Right wing media btw. People are different and how much they buy into something varies. But the fact that he was willing to listen and understand is something we need more of. So yeah, Centrist gang rise up 😂
@@thefonz8373 he is the exception, not the rule. Centrists are fence sitters that only care about what directly effects them, otherwise it can all burn down so long as they don't have to change anything. You don't have to be an extremist to pick a fight you believe in. Centrists avoid fighting for anything, they just kick the can down the road.
I still remember my mom telling me in 2nd grade that if anyone touched me and I felt uncomfortable, I need to tell her immediately. It was an easy and sweet conversation. Definitely not too early.
The job of a parent is to prepare their kids for the world, telling them about very real dangers sounds critical tbh The way your mom did it sounds perfect, you don't have to bring sex into the picture but you still get the message across
According to the "Don't Say Gay" Bill _every_ allusion to sexuality in any way is forbidden. This means that it ids already illegal for a teacher to say they're married or have a boy/girlfriend, no matter of the genders involved. So a male teacher talking about his "wife" should already be indicted. I think this is the way this should be approached: have parents complain as soon as any of this happens. Let's see how this will go then.
Kids bully kids for being gay on the playground. Yes, in 2nd grade. (substitute teacher here) These laws would make it potentially a criminal offense for me to intervene. and. that's. the. point.
This guy just knows the dogwhistles and hasn’t put _any_ effort into thinking them through, until you, vaush, simply asked him to explain these beliefs. For anyone that isn’t fully committed to the ideology this is the best way to peel them away from it. The Socratic method always works
This is like a conservative that actually is learning from the arguments and gaining something, I feel like you might actually be able to turn him to some left wing ideology, without insulting his right wing ideology, gosh, this is why I keep watching you, you have an ability to communicate with these people and get them to understand why they are voting against their own self-interest. Own self-interest it's insane that politicians can't do the same.
Sadly I voted Democrats all the way down, but they are the only ones that are putting forward good policy. So it's hard for me to even look at independence or republicans cuz most of the time they don't even put policy forward. But if you really have a complaint that I don't know who I'm voting for then you probably talking to the wrong person.
Well, I don't know. I am doing a similar thing, trying to turn conservatives in my country into libertarians. I am a right wing libertarian (so pro capitalism, sorry) but I think it's better to at least convince conservatives to be progressive / liberal (conservatism is fine, but they have to be "liberal" as well - in the meaning "ok I am conservative, I don't like gays, but I will not limit their freedom to adopt kids and get married".) But it's really hard to turn them even from conservatism to progressive / libertarian. So I doubt you could move them to leftwing. There are also a lot less arguments for being left wing in economic policies, whereas from my viewpoint being progressive in social policies is something logical and unavoidable, if you are consistent (I dont want anyone to limit my freedoms, so I won't push for laws limiting anyone's freedoms). But I like to watch Vaush for exactly these reasons - 90 % of the time he is making arguments for progressive issues, from which I learn and get arguments for my debates with conservatives. Nothing will ever move me to left wing (well, to socialism, because I support things that make economic sense, so for example taxing negative externalities, antimonopoly policies etc.), but I would rather live in leftwing progressive world, than conservative capitalism. Even though I am cis white guy lol, because I really hate limiting people's freedoms.
@@patrickstreetet3085 There's no shame in choosing the side that makes the better choices, that's literally what democracies are about If tomorrow roles where reversed (as it once happened between reps and dems) and dems started doing the human right violations, it would not only be a good idea to change sides, but the intended way of handling the situation
1:02:30 - "Creationism is a good example because I remember learning about the creationism versus evolution debate, and I think that the way that my teacher handled that at the time was absolutely phenomenal. He was religious personally and he said that, but then explained evolution fully and creationism fully, and said people have varying opinions on this." Knowing creationists he probably knew nothing about evolution and explained their strawman of evolution. 1:06:27 - "So I think that when you go that far back into history we're talking about the creation of life, the Big Bang, we don't know what happened and if you look at the science we have proof that humans evolved from monkeys but we don't have proof of how life started." Aaaand there we go, that's the creationist strawman. Evolution explains of diversity of life, nothing more, nothing less. Abiogenesis is the theory of life rising from non-life. Its also one of those theories where you can't really tell if it should be taught in biology or chemistry class. Big Bang is cosmology and astrophysics, completely different branches of science, any teacher that tries to connect it to evolution should be fired immediately. Out of a cannon.
Whenever I think about a good person who is centrist or centre right because they've mainly been misled, this is like the exact guy in my mind lol. Like we even heard an example of how the education system failed him in the debate. I really hope he keeps watching and questioning things.
It never ceases to amaze me how much conservatives will shout that they care about the constitution and our rights, yet can never understand or support the values and freedom that those constitutional rights maintain
Tbh its like this guy had all his arguments based on vibes than any actual concrete facts or even ideology. So this debate was more like stuffing this guy's brain with absent knowledge and info than a real mind changing debate.
@@artsyjoe94 Most people become conservative either because their parents were or because society has left them behind in our collective understanding of reality. That is why it is much more important to have a progressive mindset rather than progressive positions.
Imagine, in the hypothetical, someone arguing that soldiers should *start* boot camp basic training on their first day in the battlefield, and not before. That would be *ridiculous.* So, when he argues that kids shouldn't have *any* sex-ed before puberty, he's basically arguing exactly that. That kids shouldn't be prepared for adulthood until they've already become adults.
Ok I think I might understand why it's a red flag, but I'm not 100% - Can you explain how that is a red flag? Does it seem like a dog whistle or does it seem dismissive of LGBTQ+ rights?
@@tonechild5929 it implies the whole "being gay is a choice" argument, and that argument is always braindead. Thats what i got out of it at least, i don't know if there was more.
@@tonechild5929 It makes it out to be a conscious and active choice, similarly to how people say "I'm pro-vegan, if that's the lifestyle you want to live". Alternatively it can be read as "You can be openly gay but it would be preferable for you to be quiet about it" which is less common from my experience.
@@wado_ichimonji2311 The implied idea that it's chosen. No it isn't "the lifestyle I WANT to live" This is life. This is Me. There is no getting around it. Stop pretending like tolerating my existence is a badge of honor.
Haha- I was also pulled out of school as a kid because of evolution. Except my parents pulled me out because I was in a private Christian school and they were teaching creationism. My parents are very Christian themselves, but they have no patience for that anti-science shit. My dads a scientist and he’s very offended by creationism
Same here lol. Different country (Hungary), but my grandparents used “gipsy” as a derogatory term for being dirty, rude and dumb. Then I got into trouble for that when saying it in school, and I had no idea why. I mean, kida said “worse” things like shit-eater all the time. Literally had no idea that gipsy refers to a race.
@@19Szabolcs91 I never understood what gipsy meant, i asked but i never got a concrete answer I ended up thinking it meant those people that read your palm and stuff My family also called some poorly educated neighbors they knew "gypsies" because of their life style (which was pretty criminal tbh). I don't think anyone really knows the weight it has, it's just the designated phrase for that kind of people My father got his mind changed rather recently and he even told me about a "gipsy" he met. The guy talked to my father while waiting to seal a deal over some spare parts (the guy worked at the place, he was paid very poorly but his boss allowed him to steal parts every so often so it apparently evened out?) After hearing some of his life, why he could never learn how to read and write, etc. He just re-evaluated his views In fact, i still wasn't sure what it meant until just now when i googled it I'm still wondering WHY this is the case tho
"I think they should eat an entire turd" is THE appropriate response to anyone who says the parents should have direct input over the curriculum in such a way that feels over reals, or just feels in general, overrides the input of people who have an actual understanding of the material.
It's so fascinating to watch Vaosh in this debate, especially past the point when his opponent turns out to be uniquely open to having his mind changed. And btw PROPS TO HIM for not only being intellectually honest about his views, but also being willing to let the battlefield of his conscience be consumed like entertainment by a largely hostile audience. That's the moment the video slipped from the background into my full attention. I loved that Vaosh was patient and respectful but also relentless and intractable. It was a maestro-level demonstration of how we can and do change minds, not because we can pummel bad ideas into rhetorical pulps, but because of the obvious virtue of our left wing ideas. Explaining our ideas clearly is the most convincing thing we can do. Ideas of bad faith, faulty logic, or toxic misinformation all wither in the light actual moral reasoning.
Republicans banned pooping now millions are in the hospital for colon surgery 😞🤕 (tbh I'm a little shocked some haven't tried to ban public restrooms all together during this trans restroom debate, it just seems cartoonishly evil enough for them to try)
This was amazing, best discussion/debate in a LONG time. It’s been a long time since someone Vaush spoke with was able to listen and be reached - to think without reason, not react defensively and emotionally when views/beliefs are challenged. This type of result requires a calm, good-faith effort and mindset on both sides of the discussion. Vaush often says online “debates” between 2 content creators/people with followings is a largely pointless exercise if your goal is changing the other person’s mind. He instead says, at best, some people in the opposing party’s audience listen to and accept points that Vaush makes - for those people to then continue their journey away from their flawed positions. This guy is a perfect example of someone who could be reached by Vaush debating a conservative personality that this guy follows & has accepted said personality’s arguments/positions to be good and correct. I commend both Vaush and the other gentleman greatly for this example of what has become a disturbingly rare event - 2 people who disagree on issues having a calm, rational discussion that is productive - it is difficult for people to accept when they have been “wrong” or been successfully “misled” into their current position. It is reflex for people to feel attacked, get defensive, and really dig in their heels when they are confronted with the realization that they can’t (and should no longer) defend or support a position they’ve held. This was really nice to see. Take care everyone.
In the beginning with the whole "but the citizens/parents fund it so they get to dictate every minutiae" bit, does that mean I can go down to my local DMV or courthouse and demand the public servants there do as I say since I "pay for their salary"? Wtf is this logic
Vaush was fire in this entire debate. I commenting in hopes to pump him more in the algorithm but more importantly because it’s fire and it needs to spread
One thing I think Vaush should’ve touched on is that what if PARENTS raise their kids being racist or homophobic? They would be causing the same “damage” that people like this guy would be worried about the teachers causing.
I am paying into that education system with no kids utilizing it. That doesn't bother me because I want an educated society around me. I prefer that education be reality/empirically determined.
"I don't think that ... we're ever going to live in a society where corporations can put people in prison for their entire lives" my dude, may I introduce you to a man by the name of Steven Donziger...
My favourite part was when he said his teacher handled treating the controversy well by teaching evolution and creationism as valid opposing ideas, but still (as an adult) conflates cosmology and Abiogenesis as part of the “evolutionary theory”. As someone who grew up in evangelical spaces, and was also taught this, it shows mild indoctrination from a young age. Creationists love to conflate these different fields of science, and treat disproving one (rather not knowing the answers so doing a god of the gaps thing), disproves the other
These laws are crazy bro, i can not imagine living in a country like that. American laws are so harsh and the way punish people is just brutal, its like as if the country is ruled by edgy highshool snitches.
If you have to spend 3 hours for each of them with for that little gain then I don’t see the value in that. It would better if they just don’t exist then having to spend that much effort and time for what decent people can just simply infer with plain old logic.
@@JRWO88 I hate to break it to you, but if we changed a few details in your life you would likely be neither decent nor receptive to this "plain old logic". They are still humans at the end of the day, and that is where the value in this lies. The fact you dont see that is depressing on its own.
This guy is the perfect example of what bad education does. He has good basic morals, but completely lacks the media literacy and general education to recognize what is good and bad for these morals.
This dude is a perfect case study that even when a person is acting in OBSCENELY good faith as this person is, so much as conceding a specific point about one part of one argument that you believed opposingly is sometimes literally physically painful/uncomfortable. You could hear it in his voice. I think everyone needs to understand this when talking to people.
Fun fact before ethical science standards were enforced they did a study on of you can trans someone. It was the born a boy raised a girl study and the conclusion is that you can't trans someone even if you start from when they first get language. People get a sense of their brain sex at a very early age and as soon as the option of socialy transitioning to being treated as a boy was brought up to the subject he instantly agreed even though he had never been treated as a boy before that point
Also if you could change someone's gender through sheer force of will, a lot of trans people would have been turned cis. A lot of them grew up in an unsupportive environment and that didn't stop them from being trans.
it's always funny to see how stunted these cons are on sexuality. They talk so unreflectedly - as they really, legitimately, never had to think about it. All their experiences were seen as normal and validated, they never had that fish out of water feel
1:02:31Here he says his teacher was religious, which does not imply creationist. 1:03:30 Here he says the teacher was a creationist, "because he's was religious", IDK if I should interpret that as the teacher saying or implying he was a creationist, or if this guy is conflating being a creationist with being religious. 1:04:47 If he "doesn't know whether creationism is real or not", then that disproves the previous claim he made that the teacher did a good job teaching evolution. If you understand that life forms are nested in a hierarchy of inherited positive and negative traits, that these lineages can be traced through geological strata, that predictions can be made about them, that this explains many quirks that don't make sense otherwise, and that we know a fair bit about the kind of process through which this change can happen, then it shouldn't really be possible for you to not be confident about the broad conclusions within evolutionary theory, unless you believe in some sort of god-like entity who is trying to trick us to believe evolution is well supported. Now granted, he seems to be suffering from what Aron Ra would call the 6th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism(yes, I am very early twenty-tens youtube atheism-brained, I apologize for nothing), which is the equation of evolution with all established theory regarding the naturalistic history of the world, such as the big bang, or the origin of life itself. When I hear evolution, I think of it as the theory that about how iterative changes to already reproducing life forms add up to radical changes over time, and that probably all living things on the planet are related, and I generally assume creationism to mean "ribwoman came from dirtman, and they hung out with the vegan t-rex until the talking snake with legs told them to eat enchanted fruit, also Noah's Flood happened". But the issue changes a bit depenend on what you assume these terms mean, as seems to be the case 1:06:26 I'm not sure if I've heard someone before defend the idea that a position based on ignorance is fundamentally the same as one based on a true ideological difference, as if not understanding some basic shit is as understandable as having an ideological disagreement.
It annoys me when people who have never had to deal with our health care system try to explain how it works and how medicare is bad. I have been navigating the health care system for 30+ years. I also work at a doctor's office. Insurance has been denying coverage for SO many things at the beginning of the year. They tried to deny coverage for when I needed my gallbladder removed citing "It wasn't necessary." My doctor had to fight them to make sure they paid out. The amount of money Americans pay to a private company to deny them coverage when they actually need it is more than enough money to fund medicare for all. The amount of medical debt people are in will be gone and they can actually afford their medications and maybe even afford to pay their bills, or maybe even invest in physical therapy, or a gym membership, or some other sorts of alternative health care measures. Instead they decide to argue and say that these huge corporations know what's best for us and have our best interest at the forefront, all while there are hundreds of thousands of people that can't afford a simple 10 minute surgery to restore their sight. Don't even get me started about how disabled people aren't even paid a fair wage. Companies use their disabilities as a way to say they don't deserve it.
No kid is gonna just listen to a teacher saying "don't bully", like what happens if the students ask why they shouldn't bully gay people? How would you be able to say "gay people are good" to someone who doesn't know it's not bad without losing your job and getting thrown in the slammer? It's like that one rick and morty episode where Rick makes a robot that's only rule is to not reveal its a robot, it's ridiculous.
43:15 this is a MASSIVE Motte and Bailey. "Teachers are like literally teaching kids to be gay, like literally." "Never heard of it, i don't think this happens, and I'm against it if it did happen." "No? Neither have I, but they hang the pride flag up someplace, and that's kinda cringe"
I think it’s worthwhile to mention that the parents can still contradict everything taught in school, can still indoctrinate the kiddos however at home and in their church of choosing…they don’t lose all control over their little ones’ minds, they just don’t get to make the public classroom theirs as well.
@1:53:00 -ish I'm Canadian, and I've never had to wait more than 2 weeks for a medical appointment that I had an immediate need for. I rarely have to wait more than a month or two for non-immediate care.
Hooooooo boy when he said profit incentives are incentives towards efficiency, insurance companies in the US change the bureaucratic rules as often as possible to try and cheat doctors AND customers out of their money, many private practices have to have someone on payroll who’s entire job is to just keep up with all the BS insurance companies make up, “we changed the forms for the third time this year so the paperwork you sent us isn’t valid anymore” “your signature looks wrong so we won’t accept this paperwork” “btw if you don’t get us this this and this piece of paper within this amount of time, the bill is void and it’s no longer our responsibility to pay you” and doctors in rural areas can’t do shit about it because they don’t have armies of lawyers like insurance companies do, insurance companies are incentivized to make things INEFFICIENT because if they run enough circles around you for long enough they know you’ll have to give up and they get to keep as much money from everybody as possible
This guy you debated is a legend. Conservatives usually just phase out whenever they hear something that might rock their statements. This guy...he just listened and admitted when he was in the wrong. And he did it in fornt of the Internet. Freaking legend!
I like this guy. It's so nice to see someone who's so open to discussion and can reflect on their beliefs with new information. He's got a good head on his shoulders, I'm glad Vaush had him on.
you could tell by how he paused at different points that he was really actually thinking about the topic not just idly reiterating talking points or zoning out and conceding everything reflexively
As a kid, I didn't know the word transgender. I didn't know that was a thing. When I hit puberty and railed against growing breasts and wearing a bra, I was called a tomboy, and my mom said I just never wanted to grow up. I was told it was normal for kids hitting puberty to hate their bodies. That it was normal to wish you could peel off your breasts like stickers and never ever take them back. That it was normal to feel that way every day and I was just "sensitive". So I pushed it down and ignored it because everyone felt like that, and I became a properly hateful little shit. Then I got therapy, and after years of unpacking bullshit I internalized and thought was just stuff everyone felt (it fucking wasn't), I got slapped in the face with the realization that I am, in fact, trans. I often wonder how much pain I could have been spared and how much fuckery I could have avoided if someone had just said to me "Some people are trans and that's okay" when I was little.
Parent input to public education is advisorial, not dictatorial. Precisely because parents do not have the expertise needed to decide what needs to be taught both from a societal perspective or from a need to maintain democracy. We also fund the military but do not direct what the military does.
At no point did anyone from the CDC say it was 100% effective. The initial studies were that the efficacy was 94% effective in preventing death, 78% effective in preventing spread and 80% effective in preventing severe illness.
This Conservative talks about taxes as if it's the parent's choice to pay them and so then they get to decide how things work. No. You pay taxes in order to participate in the society, build your business on the land the government owns, and use the currency of that society. The curriculum is up to the government and not the parent.
Also, we all pay taxes for schools. I don’t have a kid but I sure do want students taught proper information and how to be well developed socially. Makes society better for all of us
We have the same here in Norway for dentists. For adults nothing is covered, but our healthcare is a 30$ fixed price. So if I break every bone in my body and stay in the hospital for 3 months I pay 30$ plus medicine if you need it after, which is equally cheap. However if I chip one tooth I could pay upwards of 3000$
Wow, $30?! That’s quite a deal, lol. I’m in the US, and I can’t stand how dental care isn’t a part of health insurance. It’s like, are my teeth not part of my health/body? The big execs claim it would be too complicated to merge the systems but that’s simply an excuse to squeeze more money out of us. Dentistry is a very specialized/skilled field and I think that they should be compensated well for it but it shouldn’t bankrupt us either.
@@EyeonthePrize247 Yeah, and the prices are comically inflated as well. Our national healthcare provider has to pay american prices for specialist medicine and then give it to us at a flat rate, so thats one of the reasons our system is so expensive: US capitalist overlords.
This guy is such an indictment of the Education system... "I had a really great teacher. He was a creationist, but he taught us creationism and evolution equally, and to this day I don't know which one is true, because he was such a great teacher!".
Being honest, for a religious teacher, that sounds pretty damn good The real issue imo is having religion alongside education. But again, private schools can do whatever they want Altho knowing the US, public schools probably also teach that stuff (?)
@NANCOK Yes. Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional, so it's countrywide. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen (if our debater went to public school, we have our example of it happening right there). And a previous Supreme Court decision doesn't mean what it once did. But as it stands, it's currently illegal to teach creationism as a science and to ban the teaching of evolution in public schools in the US.
I remember the first class with my geography teacher, he had a long spiel about the importance of geography then he said, climate denial won’t be taken seriously here and that it was simply a fact. He is a super cool dude and sometimes just because something is a political issue that doesn’t mean it is not also a scientific consensus and something we should agree upon as a fact in education. Education is about learning and if that is inconvenient to conservatives maybe they should reconsider the validity of their positions.
I like debates like this one where it isn't constant interruptions and yelling. Even though this guy had some really dumb takes, he came into this open minded and in good faith which I respect.
I don’t know if you read RUclips comments, but as a high school language arts teacher: THANK YOU for having this debate. Taxpayers, not just parents, fund education- and we all have differing opinions. We can’t just teach the majority opinion, we have to teach facts. I teach in a semi-rural, semi-suburban conservative district and there have been plenty of parents pushing back on us teaching To Kill a Mockingbird/discussing Jim Crow, reading They Called Us Enemy/discussing Japanese internment, or discussing the following concepts as context for our American Literature course: Native American genocide, slavery, exoticism, white savior narratives, romanticism of historical figures, feminism, Native American boarding schools, Chinese exclusion, the achievability of the American Dream in our quasi capitalist society, redlining, dual consciousness, and more. Should I just lie, or not cover these topics because some parents don’t like them? I am a professional with a masters degree, so why do the parents get to dictate what I teach even if it doesn’t align with facts?
Also adding on now that I’m an hour in- he believes most teachers are leftist? I actually chuckled aloud.
It’s unfortunate that you as a public servant have to be on the front lines of the war being waged against creating empathetic knowledgeable citizens. The point of public education should always be to create a better society, and therefor a better future. Let’s be honest though, the point of this entire conservative movement is indoctrination, because the uneducated tend to vote on their emotions, and the entirety of the conservative strategy is to weaponize fear, and ignorance. People who understand how to approach a subject critically very rarely will vote, or live their lives in general to hurt others, or climb upon their neighbors backs to get over whatever obstacles they may face.
Keep fighting the good fight, and know there are plenty of us parents out here who will be doing our part to make sure that you can actually do the work that you spent so much time being able to do.
Because they dropped out of junior high school to have kids at 14, so they should know a thing or twenty about education. Not you with your little Masters. Lol!
This right here really puts it in perspective. I would love to see actual teachers like you featured on the news as pushback to these bans.
This right here really puts it in perspective. I would love to see actual teachers like you featured on the news as pushback to these bans.
This guy conceded an entire argument? On a public platform? During the conversation?
Takes guts man.
That's the problem, it shouldn't take guts to acknowledge reality.
I really respect this guy. He really engage in a discussion on good faith, and willing to engage different ideas. I would give him standing ovation, even though i was a debater on high school and college.
I'm so proud
In kindergarten, I was told not to he racist by my teacher quite explicitly. I literally remember it to this day, and it has been informative to my growth as an individual, and that is to say that teachers telling kids "hey dont be a dipshit for someone's immutable characteristics" is actually.... good. Cause childhood is your formative years, and you should be trying to inform kids of how to be good people.
Yeah same here. In Kindergarten was the first time I ever heard of MLK and that racism was even a thing which I hadn't considered before. Then in first or 2nd grade I watched an educational animated film called Our Friend Martin that went deeper for kids to understand and those teachings always stuck with me in a positive way.
Also in 4th grade was when I was introduced to sorta sex ed but the topic was more so on kids being alert to inappropriate behavior amongst adults and to tell their teachers if they see anything bad
@@Spongebrain97 I think that's exactly as sex ed should be for kids- and it's only as they get older that other pertinent details have to be included into their sex ed.
Yeah, the problem with just making a blanket statement about respecting other people is that with racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. there is an element of dehumanization. So, in that situation they might get the message that doing that one thing to a black person is bad and just move from being overtly racist to doing things that are less obvious that are still traumatizing. It's important to instill that everyone is human early on otherwise that default bigotry taught by parents becomes ingrained and harder to change.
A lot of times we say "racism is learned"
But what's often left out from being said IS "anti-racism" is learned
Just like sharing. Turns out values, both good AND bad, have to be taught
Humans are only biologically social. What being social means is dictated by 100% nurture, not nature
It's our loss if we think good values are encoded in the DNA somehow
@Jacob B I was thinking of the same thought, except I was thinking of First Nation American Elder speech on humans are born good vs humans can be good under the right conditions. Can't remember his name or find the link but it's nice to think, he and Aristotle would have got along.
God it feels so weird to have a Conservative on who actually understands analogies or at least doesnt pretend not to. Such a breath of fresh air
Best Conservative all year
He is definitely one of the most honest conservatives he's ever had on. It took a little pushing, but he was actually talked into realizing how faulty his logic was and admitted it. That's incredibly rare. He's probably an honest person that's just been fed so much propaganda that he never thought to question it.
I agree, I hate that chat kept getting kind of shitty towards him. Calling him an idiot and a dumbass etc… like yeah some of the things he said were stupid, but he came in good faith trying to discuss things and learn from it.
Idiots don’t try to learn they just persist in their beliefs and behaviors.
I don't think deep down this guy is actually a conservative at all, even if he identifies as one. He thinks like a lefty who has been stuck in a conservative media bubble being influenced by their lies for too long.
Cool Charizard pic
Too many conservatives frame “political” as “things that are disagreeable to me personally”
They ruined that word for everyone that's common vernacular now. Political = bad gay people don't think being gay is political because there pro it
Then they vote on those things they personally feel are wrong and make them political.
Gas stoves were a personal preference for a while now. Now we see conservative politicians talking about how gas stoves are our god given right, and conservative voters taking a side for gas stoves.
If, in the future, we begin to see subsidies for gas in gas stoves to make gas stoves cheaper in the long run, and tariffs on imports of electric stoves from other nations, it becomes a political issue.
I'm gonna be very honest when saying, a lot of fucking shit is political. Almost all stuff is political.
The two races: White and Political. The two genders: Male and Political. The two sexual orientations: Straight and Political. The two nationalities: American and Political.
@@dinosaysrawr based take but honestly seems to be how alot of people viee things
Amazing video, the dude has some bad ideas but holy shit, he backed off them when he got enough pushback to realize they were goofy... SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THEIR ARGUMENT AND CARES ABOUT BEING WRONG, amazing, truly incredible, a unicorn of the Right-wing of our time
Vaush had been complaining about it being hard/impossible to find a Conservative who will argue, because they're so deep into denying reality that no arguement works if they deny even argueing.
But this guy is actually being there as a real human, you can literally hear him pick out points and go "well that's true but it aught to be..." wrong or not, that's a measurable response he's working from.
I don't think anyone expected this guy. Good surprise.
@@TheKiroshi A conservative that is willing to self-reflect is often not a conservative for very long
I think this is what vaush means-- debates are only fun when the person actually gives a shit about their beliefs and truth, and a lot of the debates where the person just screetches 5 talking points and joker laughs for 2 hours are boring. Like I dont even need the opposition to concede, they just gotta care
@Coral -- going to have to fire back on this, not quite
There certainly are normal everyday "conservatives" who take on some opinions and do it with a real admission of problems. But Conservative "voters" are a whole different story.. a lot of what we'd call normal conservatives are not politically motivated and take a whole bunch of ideas from politics they experience but don't think about, so when questioned, they're usually very responsive and stick onto the problem.
but a *lot* of [Republican] voters, not just conservatives, are held up on political goals and team-mentality, they may not argue in harsh or scummy ways, but they will outright deny issues or take on the political agenda of their side "Trump made jobs!" Or "we don't know the long term effects on the vaccine" are *nice* versions and not ultimately that common as others.
But of course, debates do bring out the worst people, so that's true there for Vaush and our perspective online
@@imcoral Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree with this one too. If you find a conservative who will call themselves conservative and actively say something about not supporting Trump, then this may be the normal that you run into. But at this point, most conservatives were Trump supporters and still may well be. After all, despite Trump's record low approval rating, the Republicans usually held at about 90% approval rating of him. Those kinds of people are not people willing to back off their positions. I've spoken with conservatives in my life who genuinely have just off the wall beliefs. I've been told a number of times by certain conservatives that after 9/11, we should've turned Saudi Arabia to glass. The meaning being, we should've nuked the entire country to oblivion. A majority of conservatives are not able to reasoned with. Many of them cannot follow genuine lines of logic and that's because being a conservative now literally requires cognitive dissonance
This isn't a conservative; this is a person who thinks they're conservative and really just hasn't made up their own mind about anything.
You calmly and clearly explain, they say "that makes sense", and then they change their minds.
That _should_ be how it works for everybody, unfortunately most conservatives don't actually even believe any of the arguments they're making in the first place.
It's a fairly ignorant person who hasn't explored most issues but who mainly listens to conservative media. We are watching him learn about these issues in real time and have his mind swayed. This is why conservatives hate higher education. When you actually learn the facts about many issues you suddenly realize how much better the left-leaning side is.
A liberal who thinks he’s a conservative lol
@@JWelsh07 "eckspecially" is a clear indicator of ignorance whenever I hear it. Same with "ecksetra"
funny, on left wing reddit I've been called a conservative who thinks he's a centrist, even though I'm actually left leaning hahah
vaush's youtube comment section is much, much better place than reddit. reddit is full of pricks
Teachers being fired for teaching things that are FACTUALLY true because the people in the town disagree with it is completely insane
Hell, I had teachers who espoused some sussy and factually-untrue stuff, and they didn't get fired for that--because they were sneaky, or because nothing they said ran afoul of the administration or parents.
But, yes, fascists and fundamentalists are the epitome of "my feelings don't care about the facts."
This guy is an example of how media consumption changes you. He is perfectly ok in his head. He seems probably ok on a personal level. The problem is that his brain has been filled with conservative brainrot
Or maybe he thinks different things to you
@@eriksvensson6054 he doesn't have a learning disability. That sounds like something the teacher would say to teach the class not to bully kid with down syndrome,
definitely the case, like freedom of speech, literally there are countless examples where right wing pushes for policies that goes against the idea of 1st ( i just with Vaush brought the Anti BDS laws that are literally on the books now in the red states!), but somehow he got convinced that the left is pushing for it??
@@eriksvensson6054 yeah Stalin thinks different from me, I guess we should be nice and never critisize him
@@eriksvensson6054 he thinks different things due to his brain being filled with misinformation
"If that's the lifestyle that you want to live" is such a telling position for a conservative to take. It shows that deep down they believe that anything but the norm is a choice, and not a character trait or identity.
For many people sexuality and gender is a choice. It is the incorrect form to speak about sexuality like this. It's honestly extremely weird to me that leftists who posture as if they read queer theory posit the right to orientate as a linear, fixed and rigid phenomena. It is extremely hetero-normative to imply that orientation is another word for essentialism. If it's not a choice then it's ultimately an injunction and therefore can be corrupted by the state and therefore becomes intrinsically political. This is why being "hetero" is now strangely a political position.
The losing theoretic is the "born this way" mode because it gives heteros and their statist guards a formal right to their violently imposed normativity. which is a pseudo fact that must be dislodged from the unconscious of the status quo. in order to unclog this subject from politics, and allow real progress to be made, both sides must forsake their Truth. Otherwise it will always remain a dialectical impasse
@@funhousemirror8870 lmao what the fuck is this
@@funhousemirror8870 It's not a choice, but it's also fluid. I don't think that's any more contradictory than saying that someone's personality is produced by thier environment and experiences but can change over time. By the same token, people develop basic traits of personality that sick with them as they develop - it's much the same for sexuality and gender.
@@funhousemirror8870 You cant choose to suddenly like something that you dont like, and vice versa.
Its also not essentialist to say that peoples tastes arent a choice, you can not choose something and have it change.
@@hand13932 pretty basic terminology, argumentation and logic. nothing profound or even really out there, especially if you read philosophy. if you can't refute what I said then probably don't get your didactics from memes
A missing piece of his argument is the counterpoint - if some parents find "teaching gayness" to be objectionable because they pay taxes and don't agree, what about the people who also pay taxes and DO want it to be taught?
The construction of “the taxpayer” as some priviledged class has been used for a long time to dogwhistle bigotry. It used to be (and still is to an extent) that “taxpayer” was code for “white people” once it became unacceptable to just say that “white people should have a say” over others.
What about the people who are gay and pay taxes and don’t want to have themselves not represented in this public service? It doesn’t make sense on it’s face, and that is because it is not literally referring to tax payers, it is referring to a privileged class who believe their voice should count for more than others, and I am 99% sure that the guy in this video doesn’t consciously understand that, he is just repeating what he has heard.
I have been wondering this myself, recently. Conservative parents forget that there are families with more liberal leaning values. That there are parents, who want their kids to get an education which differs from that of conservative parents.
I guess this is merely a symptom of the conservative virus - that in any facet of politics, only conservative values matter.
Well he could argue "well, majority of the state wants it banned, so it should be banned". It's bad to try to rationalize this with "popularity", especially because often in USA your elections end up 51 - 49.
So it's better to use the argument of logic and american values - you should teach kids it's okay to be black, gay, trans etc., because it is fine...
@@BeSk9991 I get that but sometimes the first step is to get them to actually acknowledge that other people think differently from them in the same lens tbag they're viewing the problem
Perhaps the real debate was the friends we made along the way
thanks for the chuckle my man
Nah the real friends we made was the debate
so true
Lmao
Anime ending
My problem with whole debate in the us is this. Someone's identity is not political. Someone being gay or trans. Is not inherently political. That is just who they are. It is just as political for me to say I have a girlfriend or that im straight. No one's saying that's political to mention you have a significant other of whatever gender. Yet we do with gay and trans. That is not political. We make it political because of bias's people have against them.
Nothing is inherently political but also everything is political to a degree. If you want it to not be political then you must fight and win the politics. Saying that the problem with the gender debate is that it is political is like having a ship sink and saying "my problem with this ship is that it has holes in it". Yes. We know. We fix the holes to make it stop being political
Yeah, it's not Inheritly, but as long as opposing them is something a specific political group does, like the Cons with Trans and Gay people, then being in favour, speaking of, and in general talking about them, is Political, because it's against a different political position
Is has become a political issue. Do you understand how politics works
Isn't it? There was a time where being Jewish was very political. Human beings excel at being douchebags. Churches and trailer parks. . . Scratch that because saying trailer parks was redundant. Anyway, churches are breeding grounds for hate and these things vote.
@@thenerdyanarchist3492 something becoming a political issue does not make it inherently political. global warming is not inherently political. it's just a natural process of the earth and it's functions, but we "make it" political through the way we decide to discuss and think about it.
This dude is too nice to be doing apologetics for fascist reactionaries
Tbh most people brainwashed into that don't have a reason to be unreasonably angry at any opposing thought. Or in this case, just correct information
Evil,is never nice in the long run. God speed nice people to the apologisties.
Yeah that's why at this point I consider the entire Republican party a death cult. They use actual brainwashing techniques on people. Good people and misguided people. Like yeah a lot of them are genuinely hateful and evil, but a good chunk of them are just brainwashed and it makes my blood fucking boil. Imagine how much less power the Republicans would have if they weren't allowed to dominate media and the internet so much.
I live in the Midwest. The vast majority of politically conscious adults sound like this guy. Fascism is a boogeyman and all that matters is that we compromise no matter what
lol
I cannot believe vowz denounced every leftist talking point he's ever had and STARTED GOOSETEPPING ON STREAM
Ya hate to see it...
i gotta say i was shocked
I haven't watched the video yet but I have been on twitter once so I believe this whole heartedly or at least will pretend so that people who don't like vowsh will like me.
*shakes fist*
GOOSETEPPS!!!!!
Not surprised. I've never actually watched any Voosh vidyas but I heard he is into Horse and defend PewDiePhiles
"Around controversal issues is where indoctrination can be applied" ...why is the concept that queer people are people and should be treated as people such a controversal issue? Why has the right made this a controversal issue?
While people are mad at queer or trans people (or muslims, or jews, or hispanic, or blacks, or ...), they're distracted from getting mad at constantly being fucked over by the insanely rich oligarchs that rule America
Because it is paramount, in their worldview, that "purity" is maintained, and rigid gender norms are upheld. Trans people are the antithesis to rigid gender norms.
Because if it's not controversial they can't do the genocide
Uhhhh uhh uh because bible said so
(ignore the fact that it's not proven if it's even true because the original texts are hard to translate)
To me this guy seems decent if he could change his mind. Shows fundamental honesty. Nice job, Vaush.
This guy is like freaking Crowder. Change my mind.
This guy sounds like the large percentage of regular conservatives in the US, and this was revealed at the point that he admitted he had made any mental comparisons to the modern equality debate with the civil rights movement. It's a kind of blissful ignorance where they simply "do not like new thing" without AT ALL peeling back aby layers or making the effort to learn more and grow, it's a complete revulsion of the controversy at all, they simply don't care and don't want to care, but actually could be made to care if engaged and pinned down in a respectful manner.
This is hard right now because we are all so ready to fight against the absolute bonkers fascists and openly horrific monsters who share these positions. And it's really hard to tell who is who until we'll engaged.
@@scipioafricanus5871 except he's actually willing to change his mind
@@scipioafricanus5871 Crowder gets paid to be wrong, he isnt
@@themachine5647My mother is in this same boat, or was.
We gotta speak to these moderate conservatives before they get sucked into the fascism, show them an honest portrayal of our side in place of Fox News or whatever. It seriously pays dividends.
It is refreshing to hear a dude actually digest the arguments rather than dismiss them out of hand by pretending there is no conflict in stated principles or consequences to their ideological goals
It is quite unusual for someone to so readily accept evidence in real time and change their opinion. Love to see it though.
If a teacher tells their students that they should share, make friends and be responsible, is that the teacher "imposing their values"?
To an extent yes
Absolutely. I think we should impose good values.
yes. only letting toddlers interact with each other Lord Of The Flies style is acceptable. everything else is indoctrination, obviously. /s
Yes and it's good
"We mean impossing values we do not follow!"
-A rep any time in the near future, talking the quiet part out loud
I literally felt gender dysphoria at 6 years old. I was attracted to boys and girls when I was in 5th grade.
The only problem is I didn’t have language around those feelings. I couldn’t articulate my gender dysphoria because it’s like conceptualizing a puffalope (do you know what that is? Can you picture it? Whatever you think it is you’re wrong)
But if it had been able to talk to someone about those feelings and given language around it years of pain would have disappeared. But sure, let’s trust my mother who advocated at my state’s Supreme Court for torturing gay kids to make them straight to teach me. Thank god she didn’t know and I had the good sense to not tell her about me kissing the neighbor boy (same age as me) or where I stashed my girls cloths in my room. I prob wouldn’t be here to type this comment.
@Jacob B 🤔 Interesting. So, you’d say your parents were relatively supportive then? And yet you still had massive internal dissidence, yeah? Just curious because I feel like I had a similar experience. Curious to know more specifics in your case.
Context: I was born in ’86 and grew up in the 90s. My parents were very liberal (but still religious to some extent; we started going to church weekly when I was six). My mom is like one of those “loves the theater” kind of persons. And my dad is an art teacher. Just trying to paint a picture.
When I was six was when I first got told how gay people have sex (but it was because I asked). Also, I was into acting as a kid- and I loved playing dress up. I especially liked dressing up as female characters (sometimes old hag women funnily enough), and at one point I really wanted a dress. When I was 5, my mom actually bought me a costume dress to play in. Others thought she was crazy.
Anyway, both my parents have always been “we’ll accept you no matter what.” I mean, at one point when I was six or seven and saying things like “I wish I were a girl,” they were saying things like “well, if when you’re 18 and you still feel that way, there’s an operation that can change you.”
Now, I don’t identify as trans; I’m just a gay man (although I have had some people tell me I just repressed some of it), but the weird thing is that despite always being told I would be accepted, my mom was very much of the attitude “well, if you’ve never been with a woman, how do you know?” Even to this day-almost 19 years after my mom knew about my first male relationship and about 12 years after “officially” coming out-I _still_ get the feeling that she’d prefer it not be her son.
Anyway, I’ve rambled for far too long. Just curious if you had a similar experience.
Yeah, I was definitely "already bi" in kindergarten and probably had more, uh... curious encounters with other boys than girls at those young ages. Anyone who thinks sexuality isn't an inherent trait that is pretty much immediately a part of who you are is just objectively wrong. Can't speak to the dysphoria aspect but it seems like the same is true for gender based on people saying it is, not that hard to just accept people's experiences at face value when that's all we have.
@jacobb3573 "Nothing is inherent" is probably a stronger statement than you want to commit to, a huge part of who we are is determined by our environment but your genes definitely play a significant role as well.
Especially since we're essentially talking about the urge to reproduce, one of the most fundamental of our evolutionary instincts. If you raised a hetersexual man and woman in a philosophical void removed from all other socialization don't you think they might eventually think "hey, I'd like to bone that" without having to learn the concept of attraction first?
Certain aspects of your sexual preferences are most likely learned, sure. Being into tattoos for example would be probably incoherent as a thing to be "inherently attracted to" since that it's unlikely anyone's genes could possibly be selecting for that. But just "I am attracted to men/women/whatever" is absolutely innate, I think you'd have a really difficult time demonstrating any alternative.
@jacobb3573 I think you're just speaking a different language at this point, since that isn't what those words mean when 99% of the population uses them.
Do you agree that you have your genes when you are born and don't "obtain" them from something external later? Do you agree that those genes can influence sexuality? If you answered yes to both then that's all I was saying, I'm not interested in getting into some abstract debate about whether or not we should redefine any of those words for reasons unrelated to the conversation.
@jacobb3573 Ok, so you're definitely just using words wrong then. Epigenetics is a new layer in the study of genetics but has not "replaced" genes, you still have a base genetic foundation which is expressed differently based on these contextual influences.
Not only is this still the prevailing scientific understanding but it also works from a common sense perspective. If you have a kid they are far more likely to look somewhat like you and inherit some of your genetic traits than they are to resemble some random person on the other side of the world (or to be even more extreme, they've very unlikely to be a squirrel, even though if all genetic foundations were truly equal before factoring in the environment we wouldn't expect to see such clear species distinctions).
Nobody is saying "it's all genes and environment doesn't matter," so by bringing up epigenetics like this you're correcting no one while accidentally stumbling into the opposite unscientific position of "it's all environment and genes don't matter." And again none of this has anything to do with the actual conversation or original point.
This guy was nice enough, he just has conservative brain worms. Perfect example of this: "Do you think 5 year olds can be gay or trans?" Vaush: "Absolutely". Dude: "Are you sure?" Vaush: "yes, here are examples of that". Dude: "Oh, I guess you're right."
Like, they literally have NEVER thought of, or read about, or watched even the most basic real world examples of what actually happens outside of conservative news bubbles. He has never heard a gay man say "I knew I was gay when I was 8" even though he asked that question in a debate to help his own point. Not because he was sure that he was right that kids can't be gay before puberty, but because he has literally never bothered to think about it.
There’s also the moment where he said he never thought to apply this situation go desegregation. Like, what? Did he seriously spend that little time thinking of this?
@@samiamrg7 Probably? Conservatives aren't know for encouraging critical thinking iirc.
I knew I liked girls since I was five. Between kindergarten and 9th grade I fell in love with Kaitlyn, Sarah, Kassandra, Louise, Ruby, three female teachers and had a crush on the vice principal.
PHUCK I can't believe how much better my life would be if my kindergarten teacher had told me "It's okay for girls to marry each other" instead of only my parents saying "God burns homosexuals in hell" and then thinking I'd have to spend the rest of my life alone because I knew I never wanted to marry a boy and have babies.
I'm 30 and I'm still alone, I don't think those scars are ever going away. I went to see The Book of Mormon a couple years ago with a friend. I had to leave the theatre when the closeted character began singing.
I don't think he would even question me saying I knew I was straight when I was 5 or so years old. Had a girl in my kindergarden class who wore white fishnets and I could not look away lol
@@cursedGalataea that comment hit me right in the feels, I hope you're in a better place now and your future will be bright ^^
A good portion of people that fall into societal expectations don't have the realization of what they're actually supposed to be like until they're moved enough to realize, "Ah, I don't like this but that". LGT kids realize it early on because "Oh, what I'm supposed to like feels wrong but what I'm not supposed to like feels better". The B and Q, from my experience and what Vaush has stated himself in this video, might not happen until much later because they sometimes fall in line with society and "those temptation are normal, just stay on the straight and narrow". I even remember a Podcaster saying he knew he liked guys but also girls and he thought he was straight with temptations...until he learned bisexuality was a thing because he was told gay was a choice and thought everyone had these weird feelings for other men. Cis, hetero, white men live in a privileged bubble of don't think, just keep going, and then they learn they're heterosexual, cis, white, or men much later because it's never been an issue until puberty, or picking clothes for yourself that you like, or they make friends that have a different culture, or that dating women isn't always like being friends with a man.
I almost feel bad watching how hard these people struggle to rationalize their back-asswards ideologies to anyone outside the echo chamber but aspire to treat them with greater patience and empathy. Thanks Vaush.
Which ideologies!?
Oh TELL me about it. When this guy says something like"Well teaching people about gay stuff would be horrible" and Vaush asks "Why".... and then there is a 15 second silence....
You said nothing. What you just said was literally nothing. I’m genuinely surprised by how much of nothing can be put into one paragraph.
@@UrFavBrunette_dancer I feel the same about your comment
@@UrFavBrunette_dancer truly a skill issue
Its incredible that any conservative who is trying to be good faith like this guy can just have his whole ideology shook by comments like, “what if this was for black people” and “delta variant lowered the effective % rate.”
It really feels like a confidence thing. Conservative media tells people "lefties are just idiots who don't know what they are talking about, we are the experts" and they go with that uncritically despite having 0 evidence given or doing their own research.
This isn't even shade directed at them in particular. It's just the way conservative media really seems to take advantage of and weaponize their base. If they tell them all of the arguments are stupid, don't bother looking into them, then it makes people compliant and unwilling to hear out any arguments. It's effective and, honestly, terrifying.
That’s because conservative thinking is antithetical to critical thinking
Banning “discussion of LGBTQ issues” in books also makes me think of that one Max and Ruby book where Max, basically a toddler, puts on some of his mom’s makeup, jewelry and a dress and it is silly. It is technically drag if you go by loose definition, but by the letter of the law, that book could get a teacher put in prison.
"Maybe we shouldn't charge them with felonies but we should definitely fire them"
Someone needs to ask this guy how he feels about cancel culture, his response would probably be quite entertaining considering the above.
"Kids shouldn't be taught controversial things"
I was in school and 9/11 was addressed the next day with an assembly. (I think a few days later)
No harm is done.
To be clear. It is FAR better to live in a system where people often have to wait to see a specialist, than to live in a system where people often cannot afford to see a specialist. At least the former is vaguely democratic, and doesn't just filter who lives and who dies by how much money they have.
You just die waiting in line without any other choice instead.
@@hagoryopi2101 You just die unable to afford the care without any other choice.
You should watch your compium intake. Wouldn't want to not be able to afford care if you become addicted.
@@hagoryopi2101 on a more serious note. If you think people are dying left and Right under decomodified healthcare due to "wait times" you are deluded. People do however die left and Right due to lack of funds in a private system.
@@eelvis1674 when you only have to buy healthcare once (rather than twice after paying Canada taxes only for them to direct you to MAID, or paying Britain taxes only to end up on a two year wait list for cancer screening when you may have only months to live), and when healthcare is actually private so providers can actually offer competitive pricing (as opposed to the highly corporatized American market where regulations protect providers from market forces), providers have to compete for your service by keeping a good balance of cost and quality. That helps keep things affordable.
And even if you can't afford it yourself for some reason, there are loans. There's crowdfunding. There's spending your healthier years saving so you have money when you're older and may need more healthcare. There are plentiful options (as opposed to being taxed out your ears for "healthcare" which doesn't actually care). You can argue these are damaging to one's dignity, but I'd rather beg on the internet or the street than have doctors tell me to delete myself in Minecraft because I'm nothing more than a tax and vote cow who's too expensive for them to save anymore, rather than a human being capable of demonstrating my own value in the world.
@@hagoryopi2101 bro you can throw out as much private healthcare apologia as you like, write an essay 10,000 words long describing in detail every way in which a market and competition makes healthcare better.
THE UNITED STATES HAS THE WORST HEALTHCARE OUTCOMES IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD.
You simply cannot get around the data.
In specific reply to your comment though, healthcare in the US is more expensive than it is in Britain or Canada. So I won't hear shit about how you pay for it though taxes. And wait times are a manufactured problem. Literally all it requires to fix is more money. Which we have infinite of.
This is a great example of showing a centrist how centrism is dangerous. You can’t give equal air to fact and fiction when teaching facts.
Cheers to the debater for keeping an open mind while arguing your point. I can tell your listening instead of waiting to talk.
I wouldn't necessarily say this is a danger of being a centrist.. Honestly, if anything this is a glowing recommendation to being a centrist. Dude was confronted by facts and he was willing to listen, which is why most people take up centrist positions to begin with. Someone who can listen to both sides and being able to agree on good points and being able to refute bad points is the ideal we should strive for. This sorta covering your ears and not even bothering to listen to what the other side says leads to extremism and people readily are willing to accept extremism(Remember this applies to both the Right and Left in America). There are varying degrees when it comes to this stuff. This dude clearly thought there was something appalling about the idea of kids being taught Gender non-conforming stuff and I don't see the problem. I have never found an issue with this. This coming from someone who has consumed a lot of Right wing media btw. People are different and how much they buy into something varies. But the fact that he was willing to listen and understand is something we need more of. So yeah, Centrist gang rise up 😂
@@thefonz8373 he is the exception, not the rule. Centrists are fence sitters that only care about what directly effects them, otherwise it can all burn down so long as they don't have to change anything. You don't have to be an extremist to pick a fight you believe in. Centrists avoid fighting for anything, they just kick the can down the road.
@@thefonz8373centrists are idiots tbh
I still remember my mom telling me in 2nd grade that if anyone touched me and I felt uncomfortable, I need to tell her immediately. It was an easy and sweet conversation. Definitely not too early.
Also, he doesn’t know how school boards work. He shouldn’t be talking about it. Sounds dumb.
The job of a parent is to prepare their kids for the world, telling them about very real dangers sounds critical tbh
The way your mom did it sounds perfect, you don't have to bring sex into the picture but you still get the message across
According to the "Don't Say Gay" Bill _every_ allusion to sexuality in any way is forbidden. This means that it ids already illegal for a teacher to say they're married or have a boy/girlfriend, no matter of the genders involved. So a male teacher talking about his "wife" should already be indicted.
I think this is the way this should be approached: have parents complain as soon as any of this happens. Let's see how this will go then.
C'mon dog, you know they won't enforce it with straight people.
Kids bully kids for being gay on the playground. Yes, in 2nd grade. (substitute teacher here)
These laws would make it potentially a criminal offense for me to intervene.
and. that's. the. point.
When I was 10 I said that's gay for things I don't like didn't know what gay people are. Republicans might actually be pro queer kids getting bullied
This guy just knows the dogwhistles and hasn’t put _any_ effort into thinking them through, until you, vaush, simply asked him to explain these beliefs. For anyone that isn’t fully committed to the ideology this is the best way to peel them away from it. The Socratic method always works
This is like a conservative that actually is learning from the arguments and gaining something, I feel like you might actually be able to turn him to some left wing ideology, without insulting his right wing ideology, gosh, this is why I keep watching you, you have an ability to communicate with these people and get them to understand why they are voting against their own self-interest. Own self-interest it's insane that politicians can't do the same.
What politicians are you a fan of? Or voted for?
Sadly I voted Democrats all the way down, but they are the only ones that are putting forward good policy. So it's hard for me to even look at independence or republicans cuz most of the time they don't even put policy forward. But if you really have a complaint that I don't know who I'm voting for then you probably talking to the wrong person.
Well, I don't know. I am doing a similar thing, trying to turn conservatives in my country into libertarians. I am a right wing libertarian (so pro capitalism, sorry) but I think it's better to at least convince conservatives to be progressive / liberal (conservatism is fine, but they have to be "liberal" as well - in the meaning "ok I am conservative, I don't like gays, but I will not limit their freedom to adopt kids and get married".)
But it's really hard to turn them even from conservatism to progressive / libertarian. So I doubt you could move them to leftwing. There are also a lot less arguments for being left wing in economic policies, whereas from my viewpoint being progressive in social policies is something logical and unavoidable, if you are consistent (I dont want anyone to limit my freedoms, so I won't push for laws limiting anyone's freedoms).
But I like to watch Vaush for exactly these reasons - 90 % of the time he is making arguments for progressive issues, from which I learn and get arguments for my debates with conservatives. Nothing will ever move me to left wing (well, to socialism, because I support things that make economic sense, so for example taxing negative externalities, antimonopoly policies etc.), but I would rather live in leftwing progressive world, than conservative capitalism. Even though I am cis white guy lol, because I really hate limiting people's freedoms.
@@patrickstreetet3085 There's no shame in choosing the side that makes the better choices, that's literally what democracies are about
If tomorrow roles where reversed (as it once happened between reps and dems) and dems started doing the human right violations, it would not only be a good idea to change sides, but the intended way of handling the situation
@@rompevuevitos222 I wish we could just vote policy, like cover the faces and parties and just show policies.
1:02:30 - "Creationism is a good example because I remember learning about the creationism versus evolution debate, and I think that the way that my teacher handled that at the time was absolutely phenomenal. He was religious personally and he said that, but then explained evolution fully and creationism fully, and said people have varying opinions on this."
Knowing creationists he probably knew nothing about evolution and explained their strawman of evolution.
1:06:27 - "So I think that when you go that far back into history we're talking about the creation of life, the Big Bang, we don't know what happened and if you look at the science we have proof that humans evolved from monkeys but we don't have proof of how life started."
Aaaand there we go, that's the creationist strawman.
Evolution explains of diversity of life, nothing more, nothing less.
Abiogenesis is the theory of life rising from non-life. Its also one of those theories where you can't really tell if it should be taught in biology or chemistry class.
Big Bang is cosmology and astrophysics, completely different branches of science, any teacher that tries to connect it to evolution should be fired immediately. Out of a cannon.
He doesn't know what evolution or creationism means so his teacher did a bad job
My high school teacher was a creationist too and I got over it after a couple weeks on youtube, this guy has no excuse lmao
Whenever I think about a good person who is centrist or centre right because they've mainly been misled, this is like the exact guy in my mind lol. Like we even heard an example of how the education system failed him in the debate. I really hope he keeps watching and questioning things.
It never ceases to amaze me how much conservatives will shout that they care about the constitution and our rights, yet can never understand or support the values and freedom that those constitutional rights maintain
Tbh its like this guy had all his arguments based on vibes than any actual concrete facts or even ideology. So this debate was more like stuffing this guy's brain with absent knowledge and info than a real mind changing debate.
Most people become conservative because of vibes tbf
Todays vibe is radical anarcho-horseism
@@artsyjoe94 Indeed.
@@artsyjoe94 Turns out the "facts over feelings" crowd is all feelings. What a tweest.
@@artsyjoe94 Most people become conservative either because their parents were or because society has left them behind in our collective understanding of reality. That is why it is much more important to have a progressive mindset rather than progressive positions.
Imagine, in the hypothetical, someone arguing that soldiers should *start* boot camp basic training on their first day in the battlefield, and not before. That would be *ridiculous.*
So, when he argues that kids shouldn't have *any* sex-ed before puberty, he's basically arguing exactly that. That kids shouldn't be prepared for adulthood until they've already become adults.
"I'm pro-gay, if that's the lifestyle you want to live then go for it."
Massive fucking red flag.
Ok I think I might understand why it's a red flag, but I'm not 100% - Can you explain how that is a red flag? Does it seem like a dog whistle or does it seem dismissive of LGBTQ+ rights?
@@tonechild5929 it implies the whole "being gay is a choice" argument, and that argument is always braindead. Thats what i got out of it at least, i don't know if there was more.
@@tonechild5929 It makes it out to be a conscious and active choice, similarly to how people say "I'm pro-vegan, if that's the lifestyle you want to live". Alternatively it can be read as "You can be openly gay but it would be preferable for you to be quiet about it" which is less common from my experience.
@@redyeti34 how tf does that imply anything of the sort?? How can someone be more excepting then literally saying "live the lifestyle you want?"
@@wado_ichimonji2311 The implied idea that it's chosen.
No it isn't "the lifestyle I WANT to live"
This is life. This is Me. There is no getting around it. Stop pretending like tolerating my existence is a badge of honor.
Honest discussion with an honest interlocutor is always welcome. This was a joy to listen to.
Dude, as a fellow Virginian who was pulled out of public school because I was taught evolution, this debate is hitting close to home.
Haha- I was also pulled out of school as a kid because of evolution. Except my parents pulled me out because I was in a private Christian school and they were teaching creationism.
My parents are very Christian themselves, but they have no patience for that anti-science shit. My dads a scientist and he’s very offended by creationism
I will say it is good to see someone with a desire to have their mind changed engage in a thoughtful conversation and… have their mind changed
Remember this 10 year old kid that thought the word Mexican was a slur . Not too hard to imagine how his parents talked about Mexicans
Same here lol. Different country (Hungary), but my grandparents used “gipsy” as a derogatory term for being dirty, rude and dumb. Then I got into trouble for that when saying it in school, and I had no idea why. I mean, kida said “worse” things like shit-eater all the time. Literally had no idea that gipsy refers to a race.
@@19Szabolcs91 I never understood what gipsy meant, i asked but i never got a concrete answer
I ended up thinking it meant those people that read your palm and stuff
My family also called some poorly educated neighbors they knew "gypsies" because of their life style (which was pretty criminal tbh). I don't think anyone really knows the weight it has, it's just the designated phrase for that kind of people
My father got his mind changed rather recently and he even told me about a "gipsy" he met. The guy talked to my father while waiting to seal a deal over some spare parts (the guy worked at the place, he was paid very poorly but his boss allowed him to steal parts every so often so it apparently evened out?)
After hearing some of his life, why he could never learn how to read and write, etc. He just re-evaluated his views
In fact, i still wasn't sure what it meant until just now when i googled it
I'm still wondering WHY this is the case tho
A turtle approves of this hope
This blobfish likes turtles
These two are gonna turn the Animal Kingdom into the Animal Commune fr
Not just another turtle, but rather a magnificent tortoise is how I see you comrade
This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!
"I think they should eat an entire turd" is THE appropriate response to anyone who says the parents should have direct input over the curriculum in such a way that feels over reals, or just feels in general, overrides the input of people who have an actual understanding of the material.
What do you "mind changed"? Vaush turns conservative?!
based vaush?
He was already conservative duh. It’s why I’m subscribed!!
No it was the conservative that changed their mind. About horses.
Vaush good?!?!?!?!
Well, when you reach a certain wealth threshold… 😉
It's so fascinating to watch Vaosh in this debate, especially past the point when his opponent turns out to be uniquely open to having his mind changed. And btw PROPS TO HIM for not only being intellectually honest about his views, but also being willing to let the battlefield of his conscience be consumed like entertainment by a largely hostile audience. That's the moment the video slipped from the background into my full attention.
I loved that Vaosh was patient and respectful but also relentless and intractable. It was a maestro-level demonstration of how we can and do change minds, not because we can pummel bad ideas into rhetorical pulps, but because of the obvious virtue of our left wing ideas. Explaining our ideas clearly is the most convincing thing we can do. Ideas of bad faith, faulty logic, or toxic misinformation all wither in the light actual moral reasoning.
YES MORE DEBATES I FEEL BLESSED VAUSH THX
Current Republicans' political strategy: "if we think it's icky, ban it!" 🙄
Based
@@eriksvensson6054 hey youre the guy in the other reply section who got destroyed by like 10 different people lol
Republicans banned pooping now millions are in the hospital for colon surgery 😞🤕
(tbh I'm a little shocked some haven't tried to ban public restrooms all together during this trans restroom debate, it just seems cartoonishly evil enough for them to try)
@@eriksvensson6054I’ve doubt you’ve actually read Nietzsche. If you did, you didn’t understand any of it.
This was amazing, best discussion/debate in a LONG time. It’s been a long time since someone Vaush spoke with was able to listen and be reached - to think without reason, not react defensively and emotionally when views/beliefs are challenged. This type of result requires a calm, good-faith effort and mindset on both sides of the discussion.
Vaush often says online “debates” between 2 content creators/people with followings is a largely pointless exercise if your goal is changing the other person’s mind. He instead says, at best, some people in the opposing party’s audience listen to and accept points that Vaush makes - for those people to then continue their journey away from their flawed positions. This guy is a perfect example of someone who could be reached by Vaush debating a conservative personality that this guy follows & has accepted said personality’s arguments/positions to be good and correct.
I commend both Vaush and the other gentleman greatly for this example of what has become a disturbingly rare event - 2 people who disagree on issues having a calm, rational discussion that is productive - it is difficult for people to accept when they have been “wrong” or been successfully “misled” into their current position. It is reflex for people to feel attacked, get defensive, and really dig in their heels when they are confronted with the realization that they can’t (and should no longer) defend or support a position they’ve held. This was really nice to see. Take care everyone.
In the beginning with the whole "but the citizens/parents fund it so they get to dictate every minutiae" bit, does that mean I can go down to my local DMV or courthouse and demand the public servants there do as I say since I "pay for their salary"? Wtf is this logic
Right? That's now how taxes work at all.
Vaush was fire in this entire debate. I commenting in hopes to pump him more in the algorithm but more importantly because it’s fire and it needs to spread
One thing I think Vaush should’ve touched on is that what if PARENTS raise their kids being racist or homophobic? They would be causing the same “damage” that people like this guy would be worried about the teachers causing.
Parents ARE doing exactly that. That's why they don't want tolerance and push for those don't say gay bills
I am paying into that education system with no kids utilizing it. That doesn't bother me because I want an educated society around me. I prefer that education be reality/empirically determined.
What's wrong with your dog lmao
Also based and true
@@raak4070 😂 Long toothed hound.
Or a dog chewing a bone.
@@raak4070 I try.
@@jamierichardson7683 oh ok lmao
"I don't think that ... we're ever going to live in a society where corporations can put people in prison for their entire lives" my dude, may I introduce you to a man by the name of Steven Donziger...
Gotta give this guy the credit. He can admit when he's wrong, and that takes guts.
This debate restored my faith in humanity
This was a really good talk. We need more debates like this, even if they won’t be all as amicable as this guy
My favourite part was when he said his teacher handled treating the controversy well by teaching evolution and creationism as valid opposing ideas, but still (as an adult) conflates cosmology and Abiogenesis as part of the “evolutionary theory”. As someone who grew up in evangelical spaces, and was also taught this, it shows mild indoctrination from a young age. Creationists love to conflate these different fields of science, and treat disproving one (rather not knowing the answers so doing a god of the gaps thing), disproves the other
These laws are crazy bro, i can not imagine living in a country like that. American laws are so harsh and the way punish people is just brutal, its like as if the country is ruled by edgy highshool snitches.
He's close to getting it with the school integration analogy, but then he misses it and I just SCREAM.
There’s no such thing as not being political in the classroom. Not mentioning a political topic is being political, just as much as mentioning it.
It was nice to see someone who actually relented and understood to some degree when their ideas didn't work as well as they thought.
If you have to spend 3 hours for each of them with for that little gain then I don’t see the value in that. It would better if they just don’t exist then having to spend that much effort and time for what decent people can just simply infer with plain old logic.
@@JRWO88 my nigga you are literally advocating for genocide on people who are not even that bad.
@@JRWO88 I hate to break it to you, but if we changed a few details in your life you would likely be neither decent nor receptive to this "plain old logic". They are still humans at the end of the day, and that is where the value in this lies. The fact you dont see that is depressing on its own.
@@JRWO88 And thats why the video gets posted so it can reach millions. Quite a few of them like this guy
One of the most depressing things I've read in a while.
This guy is the perfect example of what bad education does. He has good basic morals, but completely lacks the media literacy and general education to recognize what is good and bad for these morals.
This dude is a perfect case study that even when a person is acting in OBSCENELY good faith as this person is, so much as conceding a specific point about one part of one argument that you believed opposingly is sometimes literally physically painful/uncomfortable. You could hear it in his voice.
I think everyone needs to understand this when talking to people.
Fun fact before ethical science standards were enforced they did a study on of you can trans someone. It was the born a boy raised a girl study and the conclusion is that you can't trans someone even if you start from when they first get language. People get a sense of their brain sex at a very early age and as soon as the option of socialy transitioning to being treated as a boy was brought up to the subject he instantly agreed even though he had never been treated as a boy before that point
So he’s technically trans?
@@xxxnapoleon69 considering he was Assigned Female At Birth... Then... Yeah, kinda
Also if you could change someone's gender through sheer force of will, a lot of trans people would have been turned cis. A lot of them grew up in an unsupportive environment and that didn't stop them from being trans.
Can i get the source on this, not because of doubt but because i want to see it
This guy is actually willing to learn.
This is like hopium in a can. Never count anyone out. Every person can be reached! Sometimes you just need to help them reach the water
it's always funny to see how stunted these cons are on sexuality. They talk so unreflectedly - as they really, legitimately, never had to think about it. All their experiences were seen as normal and validated, they never had that fish out of water feel
Being gay isn’t a “lifestyle you want to live”
1:02:31Here he says his teacher was religious, which does not imply creationist.
1:03:30 Here he says the teacher was a creationist, "because he's was religious", IDK if I should interpret that as the teacher saying or implying he was a creationist, or if this guy is conflating being a creationist with being religious.
1:04:47 If he "doesn't know whether creationism is real or not", then that disproves the previous claim he made that the teacher did a good job teaching evolution. If you understand that life forms are nested in a hierarchy of inherited positive and negative traits, that these lineages can be traced through geological strata, that predictions can be made about them, that this explains many quirks that don't make sense otherwise, and that we know a fair bit about the kind of process through which this change can happen, then it shouldn't really be possible for you to not be confident about the broad conclusions within evolutionary theory, unless you believe in some sort of god-like entity who is trying to trick us to believe evolution is well supported.
Now granted, he seems to be suffering from what Aron Ra would call the 6th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism(yes, I am very early twenty-tens youtube atheism-brained, I apologize for nothing), which is the equation of evolution with all established theory regarding the naturalistic history of the world, such as the big bang, or the origin of life itself.
When I hear evolution, I think of it as the theory that about how iterative changes to already reproducing life forms add up to radical changes over time, and that probably all living things on the planet are related, and I generally assume creationism to mean "ribwoman came from dirtman, and they hung out with the vegan t-rex until the talking snake with legs told them to eat enchanted fruit, also Noah's Flood happened". But the issue changes a bit depenend on what you assume these terms mean, as seems to be the case 1:06:26
I'm not sure if I've heard someone before defend the idea that a position based on ignorance is fundamentally the same as one based on a true ideological difference, as if not understanding some basic shit is as understandable as having an ideological disagreement.
It annoys me when people who have never had to deal with our health care system try to explain how it works and how medicare is bad. I have been navigating the health care system for 30+ years. I also work at a doctor's office. Insurance has been denying coverage for SO many things at the beginning of the year. They tried to deny coverage for when I needed my gallbladder removed citing "It wasn't necessary." My doctor had to fight them to make sure they paid out.
The amount of money Americans pay to a private company to deny them coverage when they actually need it is more than enough money to fund medicare for all. The amount of medical debt people are in will be gone and they can actually afford their medications and maybe even afford to pay their bills, or maybe even invest in physical therapy, or a gym membership, or some other sorts of alternative health care measures.
Instead they decide to argue and say that these huge corporations know what's best for us and have our best interest at the forefront, all while there are hundreds of thousands of people that can't afford a simple 10 minute surgery to restore their sight.
Don't even get me started about how disabled people aren't even paid a fair wage. Companies use their disabilities as a way to say they don't deserve it.
No kid is gonna just listen to a teacher saying "don't bully", like what happens if the students ask why they shouldn't bully gay people? How would you be able to say "gay people are good" to someone who doesn't know it's not bad without losing your job and getting thrown in the slammer? It's like that one rick and morty episode where Rick makes a robot that's only rule is to not reveal its a robot, it's ridiculous.
I'm watching it from Europe and I'm hallucinating. Vaush get most of the points with chirurgical precision and good logic. I'm learning a lot.
43:15 this is a MASSIVE Motte and Bailey. "Teachers are like literally teaching kids to be gay, like literally." "Never heard of it, i don't think this happens, and I'm against it if it did happen." "No? Neither have I, but they hang the pride flag up someplace, and that's kinda cringe"
"I think they should eat an entire turd."
I had to pause to stop choking on my drink so I could hear the rest of the video. XD
Being gay is not a lifestyle choice.
I think it’s worthwhile to mention that the parents can still contradict everything taught in school, can still indoctrinate the kiddos however at home and in their church of choosing…they don’t lose all control over their little ones’ minds, they just don’t get to make the public classroom theirs as well.
@1:53:00 -ish I'm Canadian, and I've never had to wait more than 2 weeks for a medical appointment that I had an immediate need for. I rarely have to wait more than a month or two for non-immediate care.
I was starving for good debates to listen to, this was great nourishment!
Hooooooo boy when he said profit incentives are incentives towards efficiency, insurance companies in the US change the bureaucratic rules as often as possible to try and cheat doctors AND customers out of their money, many private practices have to have someone on payroll who’s entire job is to just keep up with all the BS insurance companies make up, “we changed the forms for the third time this year so the paperwork you sent us isn’t valid anymore” “your signature looks wrong so we won’t accept this paperwork” “btw if you don’t get us this this and this piece of paper within this amount of time, the bill is void and it’s no longer our responsibility to pay you” and doctors in rural areas can’t do shit about it because they don’t have armies of lawyers like insurance companies do, insurance companies are incentivized to make things INEFFICIENT because if they run enough circles around you for long enough they know you’ll have to give up and they get to keep as much money from everybody as possible
‘I don’t want teachers to answer questions’
Got it
This guy you debated is a legend. Conservatives usually just phase out whenever they hear something that might rock their statements. This guy...he just listened and admitted when he was in the wrong. And he did it in fornt of the Internet. Freaking legend!
I like this guy. It's so nice to see someone who's so open to discussion and can reflect on their beliefs with new information. He's got a good head on his shoulders, I'm glad Vaush had him on.
you could tell by how he paused at different points that he was really actually thinking about the topic not just idly reiterating talking points or zoning out and conceding everything reflexively
this debate was so pleasant to listen to
As a kid, I didn't know the word transgender. I didn't know that was a thing. When I hit puberty and railed against growing breasts and wearing a bra, I was called a tomboy, and my mom said I just never wanted to grow up. I was told it was normal for kids hitting puberty to hate their bodies. That it was normal to wish you could peel off your breasts like stickers and never ever take them back. That it was normal to feel that way every day and I was just "sensitive". So I pushed it down and ignored it because everyone felt like that, and I became a properly hateful little shit. Then I got therapy, and after years of unpacking bullshit I internalized and thought was just stuff everyone felt (it fucking wasn't), I got slapped in the face with the realization that I am, in fact, trans. I often wonder how much pain I could have been spared and how much fuckery I could have avoided if someone had just said to me "Some people are trans and that's okay" when I was little.
Parent input to public education is advisorial, not dictatorial. Precisely because parents do not have the expertise needed to decide what needs to be taught both from a societal perspective or from a need to maintain democracy.
We also fund the military but do not direct what the military does.
At no point did anyone from the CDC say it was 100% effective. The initial studies were that the efficacy was 94% effective in preventing death, 78% effective in preventing spread and 80% effective in preventing severe illness.
This Conservative talks about taxes as if it's the parent's choice to pay them and so then they get to decide how things work. No. You pay taxes in order to participate in the society, build your business on the land the government owns, and use the currency of that society. The curriculum is up to the government and not the parent.
Also, we all pay taxes for schools. I don’t have a kid but I sure do want students taught proper information and how to be well developed socially. Makes society better for all of us
This guy loves saying “parents fund it and should decide what’s taught” But also loves ignoring that half the parents would disagree with him
Vosshiss's debate game has gone Super Saiyan God. A conservative can no longer hear his smooth tongue and remain unmoved
We have the same here in Norway for dentists. For adults nothing is covered, but our healthcare is a 30$ fixed price. So if I break every bone in my body and stay in the hospital for 3 months I pay 30$ plus medicine if you need it after, which is equally cheap. However if I chip one tooth I could pay upwards of 3000$
Wow, $30?! That’s quite a deal, lol.
I’m in the US, and I can’t stand how dental care isn’t a part of health insurance. It’s like, are my teeth not part of my health/body? The big execs claim it would be too complicated to merge the systems but that’s simply an excuse to squeeze more money out of us. Dentistry is a very specialized/skilled field and I think that they should be compensated well for it but it shouldn’t bankrupt us either.
@@EyeonthePrize247 Yeah, and the prices are comically inflated as well. Our national healthcare provider has to pay american prices for specialist medicine and then give it to us at a flat rate, so thats one of the reasons our system is so expensive: US capitalist overlords.
yeah this guy had an open mind. Very rare anyone period is willing to consider and adopt new ideas.
This guy is such an indictment of the Education system... "I had a really great teacher. He was a creationist, but he taught us creationism and evolution equally, and to this day I don't know which one is true, because he was such a great teacher!".
Being honest, for a religious teacher, that sounds pretty damn good
The real issue imo is having religion alongside education. But again, private schools can do whatever they want
Altho knowing the US, public schools probably also teach that stuff (?)
@NANCOK It's illegal to teach creationism as science in US public schools.
@@Rill154 In ALL public schools? that's nice
@NANCOK Yes. Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional, so it's countrywide. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen (if our debater went to public school, we have our example of it happening right there). And a previous Supreme Court decision doesn't mean what it once did. But as it stands, it's currently illegal to teach creationism as a science and to ban the teaching of evolution in public schools in the US.
He's conflating leftists asking "be nice" to conservatives actually passing laws making things they don't like illegal.
Listen both sides the right wants to make flag burning a crime. But the left will say your rude or anti gay if you burn a pride flag.
@@daraghokane4236 you just proved my point, saying you're rude is not the same as criminalization of saying rude things.
I remember the first class with my geography teacher, he had a long spiel about the importance of geography then he said, climate denial won’t be taken seriously here and that it was simply a fact. He is a super cool dude and sometimes just because something is a political issue that doesn’t mean it is not also a scientific consensus and something we should agree upon as a fact in education. Education is about learning and if that is inconvenient to conservatives maybe they should reconsider the validity of their positions.
EXpecialy grinds on my nerves. ESPECIALLY someone who is arguing about education.🙄
You will get used of it.😉
😢
I must of grinded my nerves to dust a millionth times alreadily
Talk about a breath of fresh air for debates, he seemed like a nice guy who is genuinely willing to listen.
I like debates like this one where it isn't constant interruptions and yelling. Even though this guy had some really dumb takes, he came into this open minded and in good faith which I respect.