I use to be a Christian and this whole thing just reminds me of purity culture within the church and everyone trying to act more pious than the next person.
I think starting to officially call this behavior "purity culture" could shock lefties into being adverse to it just through that religious affiliation.
@@killerskiely100 There's a difference between principles and highroading. Being up in arms to this extreme over something that will never be as harmful as the right's push for literal genocide against these people is not helping anybody except said right.
@Miguel Garay I am on your side, yet cannot support that specific point since the transphobic often behave as though they've been accosted when a clockable trans enters their line of sight. My apologies for how "clockable trans" might read, I know no better shorthand.
Right when the caller told her to explain her experience I was getting ready for "I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning, I break my legs, and every afternoon, I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep." am I a bad human?
This person arguing with Keffals only has identity politics answers. When Keffals responds with “ya know I’m autistic, trans, and disabled also,” this person has no answer. They just kind of go quiet for a second and say “well, then it’s disappointing that you don’t agree with me.”
I've literally seen that response online. A trans friend of mine was arguing in favor of Bernie Sanders with a mutual Facebook friend who did not think Bernie was good enough with regards to marginalized groups issues, and the other person's response was literally, "Frankly I'm disappointed that a person in a marginalized group like yourself doesn't get this."
Just acknowledge you were wrong, your ego will evolve and obtain much greater extant to humanity. speaking on that individual of course. If we acknowledge our weaknesses, they can, in turn, become our strengths.
The disability olympics at 1:16:40 are so painful😬 It's clear that the caller thinks Keffals' disabilities aren't significant enough because she's not in a wheelchair. As if people with "invisible" disabilities don't get a ton of shit in their own right. It's not a competition.
even if the disability can be basically healed with enough medical intervention, like cleft lip/palate, it still can cause a lot of trauma and ableism. Even if nothing more will add on to it and all, it still has a massive impact on your life
Yes. "Well _I_ had a broken wheelchair" :O is _not_ retort to "I had to choose between food and medicine and couldn't pay rent". They're _both_ serious problems. Why the hell is that a competition
Maybe infighting is implied by the fact that the left is not homogeneous, that different people have distinct identities and exist as different categories of people. If a group does not defend or stand by an identity, then one cannot say there is a fault in the defense against that. But alternatively, there are forms of infighting that are only interpersonal disagreements. These are obviously bad. There is an obvious difference between a friendship and an allyship. We must ally with those that we can. If you cannot ally with another group of people, maybe because they are opposed to your identity, then infighting is only a matter of nature. Fault cannot be assigned to you. You are endlessly allowed to defend yourself against the horde.
More true words have never been spoken. Explain to them that it's in poor taste and move on. We bog ourselves down fighting over things that need attention, sure, but to there no sense of priority when it comes to what we choose to eat our own over
It’s nice to think about the billions of hours wasted by people on Twitter that could be contributed to anything else. They could’ve made thousands of works of art and literature with that time, but instead it was consumed by shit flinging and getting upset online.
@@patricksikhrangkur8814 , oh, whoops, I misread and flipped who was asking that of whom; my bad! I agree Keffals was incredibly patient throughout this conversation, and was willing to humor and tolerate questions and challenges that would've just caused a lot of us to just scream after an hour.
1:16:41 this is the same logic as “you’re not gay/bi, I’ve never seen you be gay/bi with someone. Tell me one time you’ve done something gay/bi.” In this scenario, it actually *is* ablism to tell someone to explain their disability or complications relating to it because you don’t believe them. Truly appalling and gross behavior from someone who considers themselves so holier-than-thou.
I remember when Twitter was like "Now that Kiwifarms is gone, can we disown Keffals?" As if she's just a tool to be used and disposed at the slightest inconvenience and not a living person.
I'm glad that wokescolds are getting, finally, a strong pushback from the streamer communities. I only wish this all happened before Lindsay Ellis had to leave RUclips.
@@stehfreejesseah7893 My friend Per was kind of into the whole Gamergate thing back in the day. I don't know though. Personally I think the whole thing was kind of ridiculous. I never minded Anita. Actually I thought she rocked, kind of.
The thing with medicalized ableism is that any word that’s used to clinically or euphemistically describe someone with cognitive deficiencies is going to be appropriated as a hyperbolic term to describe run of the mill dumbassery, so trying to label them as slurs is a useless endeavor. The best that can happen is what’s happened previously: the word falls out of clinical use as it enters colloquial use and another one takes its place
@@jakuth99 No, you aren't. Your comment privileges have now been revoked. Egg
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Oh yeah. One need not look any further than the lolcow forum to see how people throw around the words "autism" and "autistic" when it's REALLY obvious that they're only using it in place of the word "retarded."
Exactly this. It's also already happening with with "neurodivergent" which was the latest attempt to make a more feelgood term to describe autistic people.
People call Keffals racist was mentioned briefly but no context was given so I'll give it here: People have been claiming that Keffals is racist because she didn't donate her GoFundMe money to a trans black person who goes by Jai. When you ask for proof of her racism these people will either go all quiet or say "it's all over the place! Just look it up!" That's how I found out about this Jai person who seems to believe that they're entitled to Keffal's money just because they're a trans black person. As to why she got that money: after she was swatted she was able to raise money either for a lawyer to sue the people who arrested her for discrimination (they kept misgendering and dead-naming her) and to move. KiwiFarms doxxed the hotel room she was staying in based on the *fucking bedsheets* so most of it is going towards a legal team and she's now in hiding. (As far as I know.)
Bedsheets? That's some pol level shit. Listen, I may not like both groups. But I gotta admit, they really do put in an inhumane amount of effort into doing stuff while hiding in their mother's basement
Keffel's guest is willing to call "being made uncomfortable" as harassment but probably would barge into a conversation about interpersonal racism and insist its not racism unless it's power plus prejudice. The goalpost is ethereal and quantum all at the same time.
The kinds of people who complain about words like Tenderqueer and Karen are the exact kinds of people the word was made for and now they're mad that a word with an unambiguous negative connotation exist to perfectly describe their toxic behavior and they want people to stop using it under the guise of defending marginalized people despite marginalized people being the ones who made the word to begin with.
See also: TERFs; people who throw snitty fits about "dumb," "moron," and "stupid; and the sussy people who object to any negative or disparaging use of the word "narcissist(ic)." It's not so much about not wanting to be unjustly dehumanized, dissed, or demonized as it is about just not wanting to be criticized and not wanting your bad traits and bad behaviors to be called what they are.
@@dinosaysrawr ironically phrases like "you're just jealous," was originally a reflexive defense. Now after seeing Contrapoints Envy video I think its quite accurate.
@@kap1618 , I don't think it's any coincidence or accident that the lion's share of often-incoherent-and-petty-seeming vitriol is lobbed at at a) big channels and b1) trans women who b2) pass well.
"Well this happened!" "No, it didn't. Here's the proof." "Well... well... I feel it happened, so say it's true!" Bleh. Some people just aren't worth the time.
@@ChillAssTurtle I think she's referring to her own cancellation that happened back a few years ago. The joke is that Contra is free from the claws of the wokescold twitter mob because keffals is their target now.
Seeing leftism being cannibalized by adults who act like passive aggressive high school teens is so depressing. Like watching jesters bonk each other on the head with the dragon killing sword while the castle’s on fire
Seriously replied to a twitter thread that was saying raging on Pete Buttigieg is totally justified, I merely mention that since Pete can only enforce the current useless loose regulations its kind of you know more constructive to unpack the players who lobbied by the train industry to water down those regulations and no joke I get a literal death threat and a pile on about how the Biden Administration has been in power for 2 years. As if merely suggesting to unpack the web of lobbying there was handing Biden or the DNC pass 🙄 No let's just pile on the unelected Bureaucrat who at most could have sounded alarm bells that most everyone would have ignored and in engage in masturbatory virtue signaling while wishing death on people who actually want to see better policy and the toxic influence of lobbying called out.
I love that their idea of personal growth is admitting they should use tone indicators more often. Wow. Round of applause for the brave twitter warrior. 👏
@@ezachleewright2309 funny how it keeps happening with every community including her own. My reading is that she just isn't very bright and doesn't have much of interest to say and so her viewership dwindles when she isn't engrossed in drama.
Keffals is in a constant state of drama it’s honestly impressive. Edit: keffals is one of my favorite streamers only saying this because somehow people are reading this as me hating her. I just wanna make that clear because keffals haters are thriving in this comment thread rn
the golden rule is to keep your flame war account anonymous and separate from your talking head or gaming channel account.. Otherwise you will be in a constant state of drama.
It was at 1:36:30 that I realized that they were saying "block chain" (as in, blocking people but chaining the blocks) rather than blockchain. I was wondering for over an hour and a half what crypto had to do with this conversation.
Sensitivity is a powerful emotion. It can be great to motivate you to fight back against unfairness and cruelty. But remember that sensitivity doesn't make you right.
I always try to bring up nuance with people for this reason. It's like those "honest" people who have an unfiltered flow of thoughts coming from their mouth, and often don't listen, so they end up sounding rude and ignorant while appearing very proud because they think they are the most honest. person.
I don't know, when it comes to pejoratives and slurs, I kind of feel like the one being hurt by them is kind of in the right. Like it's not your right to decide how much or how little a slur hurts someone. If it hurts someone, just don't do it. Not that hard to just use a different word.
I watched half the video and I was ready to close the page because how frustrating this guy was. I would have lost patience and told the guy to roam the nearest forest.
The absolute pain Olympics this person tries to do to keffals is insane "well your disabled and trans well im in a wheelchair top that" its just crazy how that person acted like that this entire debate
Can I please just watch my favorite content creators while agreeing with them on some issues and politely disagreeing with them on others, like a normal person? Without being branded as something I’m not because I had their video on in the background while gaming and eating Big Mac?
I still listen to Sam Harris as background noise to remind me of the good old days sometimes. We drifted in different directions but I still really like the guy as he got me interested in politics, philosophy and all that other crap.
The thing is - what if that disagreement was frequently using the t-slur, and not considering it to be a slur? Disagreements are good. But these people sincerely believe the r-word is a slur. If you would be upset by a t-slur-using creator becoming very popular on the left, surely you can understand where they are coming from? The issue is whether the r-word is a slur or not. My position is that I don't know and don't really care, the point is it is hurtful and harmful. Ableism is already incredibly normalised and pervasive. Why add to that? The left generally has a blind-spot when it comes to ableism, and it's exhausting fightings systemic ableism and casual ableism and malicious ableism constantly. I'm not a wokescold. I don't agree with kicking people out of the left for using that word. I don't agree that using it makes you a shitty person. The dogpile is frustrating and shitty. But just like the t-slur, or other hurtful/harmful things people say about other groups, I would REALLY prefer that it's use was not further normalised, and I would also prefer if my favourite streamer didn't use it constantly (or loudly defend using it constantly.)
Vaush saying that creepy is a slur against autistic people kind of hit a chord with me. I got hit with that word the second I went to school. I’m still all for using the word for people that do actively seem that they might harm someone. I don’t use it towards people like myself that just don’t understand some social queues and thereby forgot to do the socially mandated response
How do you determine that? People used creepy the same way when talking about me and probably you too, unpredictable social behavior makes people concerned.
@@kumaflamewar6524 Unpredictable behaviour? Come on. Whether they have autism or not, the unassuming, socially awkward but generally nice, nerdy guy isn't concerning or unpredictable and doesn't deserve to be called creepy or weird. What, are they like playing with knives during recess or something? Harrassing girls? Probably not. I mean I dunno, it just doesn't seem that hard. It's OK to think someone's a bit weird, but you don't have to let them know, and you can still treat them with respect. People call guys like that creepy because they know they can and they're power-tripping arseholes. That's the real truth.
@softlilangel that's the point though. If you say "I'm not okay with calling these people creepy, but I'll still use it when I subjectively feel others are creepy" you have lost any semblance of credibility. The vast majority of "creepy" people are just regular people that behave slightly abnormally, but it's impossible to be able to accurately determine who is creepy and who isn't since what you consider to be abnormal behaviour is mostly subjective.
I'm disabled, and have been using the "r word" since middle school to refer to me doing a dumb thing or my friends- it had nothing to do with disability to me, it was just another way to call something I or others did stupid. People getting upset on our behalf over a word feels more insulting and patronizing than the word itself- treat me like an equal and call me the R word casually, don't walk on eggshells to use perfect language in case I might get offended or whatever. We know that people think we're weak, but white knighting for us over a word feels worse than just being treated normally and being called that sometimes.
@@GG-vy1oydidn’t ask. Anyway, op is right. I hate when neurotypical people get mad on the unasked behalf of us autists. The woke scolds treat us like babies who need to be coddled, rather than real humans. I use the word, my friends use the word, and it’s all good. I’d rather someone call me a r-d than treat me like I’m a little baby who can’t handle “bad” words
@@hamperhamp895 Friend you're in the comments section using the f-slur, I don't think you have room to hand-wring over someone calling a fascist r*t*rded because it alienates disabled people lmaoo
I noticed the projection that there would be biphobia in Keffals' community. I feel like that's projection, we often say shit but we try to keep our heart in the right place. As opposed to people who say the right shit but their heart is often in the wrong place.
That person debating Keffals is the pure definition of a wokescold. I am almost certain this person is lucky enough to have never met an actual bigot, if they are getting that upset over the very mild things Keffals has said.
Someone needs to call these people and make an earnest attempt at polite small talk. They'll crawl into a corner for 6 entire months and stop being everyone's problem
My problem with this person’s statement “Harassment is being made uncomfortable against your wishes” is that it makes it necessary that the act of harassment can be an accident
Ok wait you can deffinitly harrass someone unintentionally. I'm sure people with autism can do that just by not understanding boundries. The problem is that by that definition you can harrass someone without ever interacting with them.
Being autistic myself, thank you, thank you, thank you for this, Vaush! The r-word's weight and damage come nowhere close to the n-word, and I'm sick of people playing the "civility" card when we call a chud's argument or rebuttal for what they precisely are. Wokescolds should never be welcome in leftist spaces and should be dissociated with.
In your opinion. Many people have a different opinion. When one is dealing in slurs and the discriminated against, best just air on the side of caution, no? It's not a competition.
Vaush, the thing you said about accepting stuff acritically and the whole "the man is r*ping the woman for beating her so hard at the game and taunting her" are extremely important. I remember when that happened, I was in my anti-SJW days and I remember finding it ridiculous and just another reason to laugh at wokelets. When I switched sides and started learning, I would also just blindly [oh no, I did an ableism] accept everything because I assumed people knew better and were probably right, but I was mostly just still trying to find a proper balance in my own ideas and ideology. Once I started rejecting the stuff I personally find ridiculous and taking what I thought were valid points (for example, there was a brief time when people tried to argue that posting FaceApp genderswapped selfies was transphobic for whatever reason, which in the past I would have probably accepted without question), I realised I'm still a hardcore leftist for the most part, I just don't think saying the wrong word once makes you Satan, or that learning a dying language constitutes cultural appropriation etc. Finally, this whole idea of accepting stuff without question is what also led me to believe that by virtue of approaching women I find attractive I was being predatory, disregarding the fact it can be done respectfully and appropriately. I'm mentioning this especially because I think it's related to the idea that the left doesn't care about lonely single young men because I can tell you that being told I was going to be an harrasser just by talking to someone was definitely not what I needed to hear back then. If you check the comment sections of channels such as Courtney Ryan's, there are tons of people pointing out that women online have kept saying they don't want to be approached for years, which led to men today not approaching. And while my personal reason for not approaching has mostly to do with my own insecurities, I can confirm that online wokescolds haven't made things easier for me and probably other men in the same situation
@@asherroodcreel640 It should go without saying, but "being a man" isn't something a person can opt out of in specifics context because it would be convenient (and that's ignoring the problems with saying a man approaching a woman is inherently inconvenient or threatening to begin with).
1:17:23 “I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning, I break my legs, and every afternoon, I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep” Like girl I know this legit is an issue for you but trying to put your suffering above keffals in some systemic torture Olympics is really dumb.
Might be poking the hornets' nest here but this kind of purity testing shit is what made the Online Left look so ineffectual in the early to mid 2010s.
"Harassment is when a thing I don't like" these people are 100% the kind of people to call the police because they see a youth skateboarding down the road.
Maybe it's just because in a simp Neo Lib, but I have no idea how these people function in their every day lives. The consistent attempts to compete in the Oppression Olympics must be exhausting.
That's true. When you want someone to hurt badly, you don't call them an r slur. You call them weird, you "worry" about them, you say you're concerned about their behavior. Because for a self conscious person that isn't good at being social, that hurts a lot. And it's what wokescolds love to use. Each time I see them use that abusive tactic, it triggers me.
I literally know nothing about Keffals other than there is an insane amount of drama around that person - and every time I try to understand what's going on, my brain goes to sleep in 5 seconds.
the "I could say the same about you. If you want to criticize me for this, you need to look inward." bit completely blows my mind. Like... doesn't that mean that YOU need to "look inward" before criticizing Keffals???
The impetus to "get rid of someone" in a social sense is always that you find them annoying. The "reason" you give is just a pretext, and the fact that it's so moralized in these cases is just a slap in the face to anyone with actual ethical stances on anything.
Or you could just hate another person on political grounds. You wouldn't say the same thing about any public figure you react against (because when it's them, it's different). You are not reacting against the transphobia of right-wing figures because it is annoying. You're not reacting against Andrew Tate because he is annoying. Similarly, you wouldn't react against Adolf Hitler because he was annoying. These people shouldn't be thought of as annoying. They should be thought of as bad people with power. (The only question is whether or not they should have that power, and the answer is NO)
The person keffals is talking to in this vid speaks in a hypersensitive narcissistic tone the ENTIRE TIME. it brings an uneasiness and tightness to my chest out of pure rage and venom for their wickedness that is comparable to a heart becoming acceleratingly infected and filled with pus non-stop, never being able to burst to finally relieve me of the excruciating pain. In other words, this person's mere existence online is harassment.
last night, i saw some people in a group im apart of saying that you can't be a real leftist if you think saying the r slur is ok/say the r slur, and that if you're a leftist who watches vaush you need to rethink life. people like this remind me that being a leftist does not inherently make you right or smart. also maya hating keffals and vowsh made me sad
"Who even gets called retarded?" Idk I was by my teacher when I was fourteen because my ADD and autism had me asking a lot of questions they already clarified.
Yeah I can say that the word hurts when people use it as synonymous with things that people associate with being autistic like social awkwardness, or difficulty understanding but the issue is with when the speaker obviously is ableist and doesn't distinguish those traits from being bad. I like to use it to refer to myself and I'm okay with others using as long as the context makes it clear what their issue is. Keffals use of it on stream was because the person she was debating tried to get her account taken down on twitter while they were debating so I think it's honestly pretty funny.
Can you actually imagine going on a stream to complain about how you had an annoying evening to someone that gets actual death threats every single day lmfao
As a trans girl who got banned from r/trans for using the R word to refer to fascists because it wasn't "socially acceptable" anymore, really got a kick out of this one :)
I think people have a hard time understanding this type of behavior because they haven’t dealt with clinical narcissists in their immediate family. A lot of narcissists like to promote themselves as protectors or caregivers of others as a way of furthering their own self importance and justifying their terrible behavior as righteous. It’s entirely self serving as we see here it’s just an excuse to destroy everything the narcissist dislikes and be praised for it. You can see it with how they constantly bring up having their night ruined… that’s the real grievance for them, everything else is just window dressing
I’ve completely lost my patience for these wokescold types. It’s like playing a game but every year the rules change and your ability to move on the board only gets more restricted.
@@OscarLangleySoryu I just mean in general. It’s always moving the goalpost in terms of language or behavior. Like when white people use black memes calling it “digital black face.” Like, come on.
@@Superunknown190 Digital blackface is an actual term, but what Keffals did is fifteen miles away from it. The people causing drama just appropriated it as a buzzword for this instance.
@@arontavares5248 It's an actual term, true, that's wildly misapplied by people who think they know what it means, including black people who heard the term and just started regurgitating it.
There are times when putting your phone down, and getting off the internet for the rest of the day (or week) is your best option. This other person who can't even take a joke from whomever Keffles is needs to do this. I be they refer to many things in life as "harassment" when it's just other people being goofy or silly.
I agree. Throughout this convo I kept saying out loud “but why do you keep engaging if it bothers you so much?”. I honestly pity the other person. To torture yourself so much and then just whine and tattle is just insane.
@@hermitcrack9091 if a trans person is a piece of shit, they deserve to be bullied. If you move to avoid nazis doxxing you, even if it fails, you're in hiding
@@claires1063 What does she actually do? Literally the only times I'm confronted with her it's through other streamers and it's always some absolutely pointless drama and just comes off as very disingenuous. Yet I don't think I've actually heard Vaush ever say a single bad thing about her.
Vaush: "I'm covering up the Subway Surfers tiktok shit, take your adhd meds." Also Vaush: *proceeds to watch a 90 min of Raft gameplay as attention booster during the debate*
I think he might have been actually playing raft here. I’ve seen him for sure play bloodborne (sp?) while talking with someone dumb… and the guy said “you suck at bloodborne!” at the end.
Keffals makes much more sense now that you mention it! I stand corrected… I don’t know how articulate I’d be sorting my storage and whatnot while reacting to a debate… Thanks for letting me know!
5:46 Absolute bars. Keffals and Vowsh/KKF/Faush Libaugh are great because if someone is constantly seething over them (as opposed to disliking/avoiding/disagreeing with them) it's a reasonable indicator that they suck and paying attention to them is a waste of time.
Agreed. I'd say that they're a great stress-test for basic social literacy and bare-minimum tolerance of social disagreement. To put it another way, if someone can't even tolerate or brush off the relatively lukewarm levels of "edginess" and argumentativity that comes from Vaush/Keffals/etc. without melting down and drawing hard lines, then there is very little hope that they'll be able to constructively exist in any kind of social movement that's big and diverse enough to actually get shit done, or reliably identify and oppose someone who straight-up fundamentally hates them.
bruh i keep getting called creepy for situations where im just socially awkward. like some friends will say something funny and ill smile even tho im not a part of the conversation, and then some fucker out of nowhere will approach me and ask "why are you smiling all creepy at them?" that shit ruined my day
The asethics of bigotry vs real bigotry thing is so true in my experience. I had high school teachers who I know would put on progressive and accepting acts, but as soon as you ask for any accomodation that mildly inconveniences them, they would say it was impossible.
Man my Twitter feed has been 99% keffals drama for so long now and I only picked up parts of what happened, until now. I knew it was gonna be dumb but I cannot believe aaaaalllllllllll of the nonsense started with something so small
Btw, "as a disabled person" (because it makes my point more valid, I guess), the part where they complain about having to do a chore involving their chair wheels felt like whining to me. Like, that's how people with cars talk to me about having to change their tires as well or parents who talk about having to change their baby's diaper. It sounds like whining about doing normal chores, which it is if you use a wheelchair, just another chore to take care of. Sure you can vent about the stress and insurance should pay for it, but it's not oppression to have chores and things to take care of. Made me think of how DJ Muel thinks of making meals as this unmanageable burden on his life.
I love how when the caller is called out on their appealing to Elon Musk and trying to get her de-platformed they start back pedaling to educating Keffals, someone who's life was upended by harrassers, about 'the movement.' When we don't even know for certain if the caller is trans or disabled.
Personally, I think going out of the way to say the r-word in spite of the controversy around it (especially when there are a ton of other synonyms) is just edgy and cringe. But I wouldn't cancel someone for it, and I wouldn't try to excise them from the left.
Yeah like canceling is for sure not even on the table, but it does make it awkward to try and show Vaush videos to people who aren’t cool with saying that word and then he just drops that bomb. Really takes away from any good substance there could’ve been to show people.
@@pugsley201 believe me, sitting here listening to arguments for hours and having your mind slowly changed is very different than hearing something offhandedly and rolling with it.
Idk I grew up being called “autistic” as a slur for being weird and then got diagnosed with autism in adulthood. Some people have told me “I wouldn’t have said it if I knew you were actually autistic”. This is the kind of vibe I’m getting from the R-word argument…
Context is always important, and this case, the context was just bullying. This is opposed to playful name-calling, or dramatization. Also, I think calling you “autistic” is way more rude than being called retarded. It’s very specific, and also a disability anybody could have without realizing.
@@foxmusicalchemist neckbeards are obnoxious chronically online redditors, neglecting their health and personality to the extent that they dont shave their neck. Bam nothing to do with autism. its literally not ableist, it has nothing to do with autism, or even politics. Its a stereotype about redditors, weebs, and discord mods if anything. sounds like someone called you a neckbeard once and you never let it go tbh.
Just the fact that you can use another word instead of "r****d" while retaining 100% of the message is proof that it's not a slur. Try finding a nicer word for the n- and f-words, I'll wait.
This person is complaining about how people don’t care about their disability, a genuine issue, but using it to belittle Keffals disability. It doesn’t make sense.
I remember this segment. Stand by my statement that Keffals is based. I CAN see a little bit of the caller's point, in that jokes can land differently to people who are not in a good place to hear them. And I know a lot of trans people are socially isolated and can't just "go outside". But at some point you can't expect the world to tiptoe around you and you have to take responsibility for your own feelings, and if that means you can't handle some jokes, you probably shouldn't be on the internet in a public forum. Find a private support forum, therapy group, or whatever you need to build your core self until it's less fragile. The broader social media landscape is not the right place to expect special treatment.
@@hamperhamp895 I don't think we have the same understanding of what marginalization or dehumanization mean. To me marginalization means the intentional pushing of a group out to the margins of society. Recognizing that you are not socially able enough to participate in a particular social space is not marginalization, it's self-care. A just society should have space for everyone - that doesn't mean every space in that society is for everyone at all times. To me, dehumanization means treating or labeling others as if they lack basic human rights such as the right to survive or self-actualize. I fail to see who is being dehumanized in this scenario. Vaush does have a great community, as evidenced by upstanding gentlepeople like yourself.
@@hamperhamp895 Point number one, they aren't saying that, as is obvious. What they are saying is that it is unrealistic to expect or ask for softer treatment on the internet , and that if one's mental health can't withstand the very possible harassment, one may simply avoid it until said issues are solved. Point number two, your comment on the euthanasia video: "I hate all the liberal f@****ts on here trying to justify eugenics". It is amazing how, without fault, you wokescolds always turn out to be as toxic, if not more than the people you trip over yourselves complaining about.
That person that's talking to keffals is somehow both extremely arrogant and thinks they're better than everyone but also victimizes themself how does that work
Don't play the victim and then just bring up stuff like I'm disabled and I'm transgender to make yourself appear better than someone else play a role, victim or arrogant bitch
I think we just haven't yet reached that point on the euphemism treadmill. If you were to go back in time, you'd see people having just as strong reactions to words like "imbecile" and "moron" as they do now to the r word. Maybe in time it'll become no big deal
I don’t get the double standard in comments from Vaush fans where Keffals is bad/cloying/somehow dishonest to stay relevant by saying controversial things, tweets etc…yet Vaush does exactly the same thing? How can his own fans have a problem with Keffals being known for exactly the same stuff? Is this some latent misogyny or transphobia…?
OH SHIT this is the stream where keffals argued for an hour with someone whose gripe was, they were mildly annoyed for one evening (and they thought this was "messed up")
they even ADMIT multiple times that it was just an annoyance for one evening. And while they pay lipservice to the fact that Keffals' treatment on twitter is infinitely worse, they still inadvertently compare the two. The caller acts like their ruined evening is worth Keffals completely altering how she speaks about other people online. There is no way to create content about other people without drawing more attention to them. That includes bad attention. A ruined evening may as well be the price of admission for having eyes on your twitter account.
honestly, I understand that it's a fun word to use. I dislike it because I was raised in a family that used it to refer to people who were mentally disabled to such a degree, and then I would be called it aswell because of my autism. I have a distaste in the word not because of any political bias, but because it hurt my feelings. that doesn't mean I will stop others from using it. I'll just ask people to please not use it around me. it's really that simple, it doesn't need to be a community wide discussion
I don’t like it when Vaush uses r*tard and would prefer he didn’t all other things being equal. That being said, I won’t stop watching Vaush or liking his content because he uses a word I don’t like because I just don’t think it negates all the other good reasons to watch and enjoy his content.
Streamers aren't your friends Political figures and activists are not your friends Nobody cares if you are offended or made uncomfortable Streamers are entertainers Entertainment, art, is supposed to make you uncomfortable from time to time.
My son has disabilities that are both cognitive and physical. Me and my wife would never use the term. I like Vaush and I don't really mind him using it especially being autistic himself. On this same note I accidentally used the word cripple the other day in a joke and immediately realized my hypocrisy...
I'm in the same exact boat. I have a 4 y /o w/ rare brain malformations that cause overall developmental delays & in the olden days he would have likely been deemed that term. My son has definitely made me think about the word differently & how it might affect his life when he’s older (& hopefully will have more wherewithal,) no longer the cute little boy, but a grown man. I hope by then we’ve either disassociated that term as one that’s used to medically explain people with low iq & general delays &/or stopped using it to explain an idiot in day to day speech. I definitely have become hyper aware when people use it, so I can judge if the person is using it in a derogatory way towards disabled people or just in a general way to explain an idiסt. If it's the latter I don't see the point in yelling at them. It wasn't that long ago people used it in daily speech, so we need to be understanding that it takes a long time to change what words mean. We need societal changes that can't happen on online discourse & take time to change.
@@ArtisticlyAlexis my son has polymicrogyria. At ten years old now is super happy tho and has favorite cartoons that he laughs at until he gets outta breath lol. He is also doing well with school which is a big deal because he used to bawl when his mother left the room. Basically I just wanna say hang in there
How are we going to disassociate the word with hateful ableism when people saying the r slur think its no big deal? This whole thing is so sad, people who I respect are throwing people like me who has a developmental disability under the bus because of stupid internet drama.
@@darkwraithcovenantindustries These people have always hated you. They only have an opportunity to inch closer to the gas chambers. Vaush has been a known ableist for a long time. If that is not your opinion, then you have not been paying attention.
Don't you think you've reversed the concept? It'll only ever disassociate from hateful ableism if it stops describing disabilities and is instead just used to describe general stupidity in everyday use, the same way "Idiot", "Moron" and "Imbecile" did. The r-slur was at one time supposed to be the less harmful, less insulting, politically correct replacement for the aforementioned terms, and now we're in the exact same position again except with different words.
I use to be a Christian and this whole thing just reminds me of purity culture within the church and everyone trying to act more pious than the next person.
This is a good observation, it really is some holier than thou quest to become the most pious of them all
I think starting to officially call this behavior "purity culture" could shock lefties into being adverse to it just through that religious affiliation.
@@killerskiely100 There's a difference between principles and highroading. Being up in arms to this extreme over something that will never be as harmful as the right's push for literal genocide against these people is not helping anybody except said right.
@@willothewisp4939 I'll delete my message youre to entrenched to see how stupid vaush is maybe in a few years you'll see it.
@@killerskiely100 🤷
WAIT. If you define harassment as “making someone uncomfortable” then trans people would be “harassing” transphobes just by existing.
@Miguel Garay well then "being near them"
@Miguel Garay by that definition a trans person using a public restroom would be harassment to a transphobe
@Miguel Garay well neither is calling someone else the r word or using it to refer to things that are not people.
@Miguel Garay I am on your side, yet cannot support that specific point since the transphobic often behave as though they've been accosted when a clockable trans enters their line of sight.
My apologies for how "clockable trans" might read, I know no better shorthand.
@@SS-xr7jf you've got me pondering, "flame retardant."
Right when the caller told her to explain her experience I was getting ready for
"I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning, I break my legs, and every afternoon, I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep."
am I a bad human?
😎
She used she/her btw
@@hefancy6921 my bad i'm actually v bad at this, anyways I think I fixed it
This was literally my reaction. The conceited privilege is astounding.
"they called me...Mister Glass"
This person arguing with Keffals only has identity politics answers. When Keffals responds with “ya know I’m autistic, trans, and disabled also,” this person has no answer. They just kind of go quiet for a second and say “well, then it’s disappointing that you don’t agree with me.”
I've literally seen that response online. A trans friend of mine was arguing in favor of Bernie Sanders with a mutual Facebook friend who did not think Bernie was good enough with regards to marginalized groups issues, and the other person's response was literally, "Frankly I'm disappointed that a person in a marginalized group like yourself doesn't get this."
Just acknowledge you were wrong, your ego will evolve and obtain much greater extant to humanity. speaking on that individual of course. If we acknowledge our weaknesses, they can, in turn, become our strengths.
So if a trans person called keffals an “angry troon” would he get a pass because “I’m trans” because this is the same scenario. I doubt it
@@lw3764 that response SEETHES with paternalism. It's so patronizing, and I've gotten that so many times from Leftists, sadly.
@@lw3764 id say they're both idiots if they're still voting democrat.
I will now be using the words, "you belong on Twitter", to express my ableism. Thank you. Thank you
imagining a guy who says “the T slur” and means Twitter
rotating him in my mind
@@TheProblem2025 wait till twitter user starts saying that
I think twittard would be pretty fitting here
The disability olympics at 1:16:40 are so painful😬
It's clear that the caller thinks Keffals' disabilities aren't significant enough because she's not in a wheelchair. As if people with "invisible" disabilities don't get a ton of shit in their own right. It's not a competition.
even if the disability can be basically healed with enough medical intervention, like cleft lip/palate, it still can cause a lot of trauma and ableism. Even if nothing more will add on to it and all, it still has a massive impact on your life
Yes. "Well _I_ had a broken wheelchair" :O
is _not_ retort to "I had to choose between food and medicine and couldn't pay rent".
They're _both_ serious problems. Why the hell is that a competition
Lefties be like:
Policy: I sleep
Inane Twitter infighting: real shit??
God help us.
God help us is right. Better infiltrate a group of pro-lifers and learn how to care about policy.
Maybe infighting is implied by the fact that the left is not homogeneous, that different people have distinct identities and exist as different categories of people. If a group does not defend or stand by an identity, then one cannot say there is a fault in the defense against that.
But alternatively, there are forms of infighting that are only interpersonal disagreements. These are obviously bad. There is an obvious difference between a friendship and an allyship. We must ally with those that we can. If you cannot ally with another group of people, maybe because they are opposed to your identity, then infighting is only a matter of nature. Fault cannot be assigned to you. You are endlessly allowed to defend yourself against the horde.
We need our communist hero, Elon Musk, to finalize the first step of revolution by destroying Twitter for good.
More true words have never been spoken. Explain to them that it's in poor taste and move on. We bog ourselves down fighting over things that need attention, sure, but to there no sense of priority when it comes to what we choose to eat our own over
It’s nice to think about the billions of hours wasted by people on Twitter that could be contributed to anything else. They could’ve made thousands of works of art and literature with that time, but instead it was consumed by shit flinging and getting upset online.
I'm amazed that Keffals' response to "Explain your experience" wasn't "You deserve literally nothing from me". More patience than I can manage.
@@patricksikhrangkur8814 , oh, whoops, I misread and flipped who was asking that of whom; my bad!
I agree Keffals was incredibly patient throughout this conversation, and was willing to humor and tolerate questions and challenges that would've just caused a lot of us to just scream after an hour.
@@dinosaysrawr Oh, gotcha. Yeah, that chat was crazy.
@@patricksikhrangkur8814 , totally! And it got painfully repetitive!
@stailisic transphobes observe objective reality challenge (impossible)
...l
1:16:41 this is the same logic as “you’re not gay/bi, I’ve never seen you be gay/bi with someone. Tell me one time you’ve done something gay/bi.” In this scenario, it actually *is* ablism to tell someone to explain their disability or complications relating to it because you don’t believe them. Truly appalling and gross behavior from someone who considers themselves so holier-than-thou.
I remember when Twitter was like "Now that Kiwifarms is gone, can we disown Keffals?"
As if she's just a tool to be used and disposed at the slightest inconvenience and not a living person.
I'm glad that wokescolds are getting, finally, a strong pushback from the streamer communities. I only wish this all happened before Lindsay Ellis had to leave RUclips.
If this pushback happened in 2016 GamerGate would never have happened.
I think its more a matter of convenience. Like if you dont like something you take the so called "high road" and do a woke scold.
My friend Per thinks she's a buffoon. I don't know though. Personally I think she can be kind of cool from time to time.
@@stehfreejesseah7893 My friend Per was kind of into the whole Gamergate thing back in the day. I don't know though. Personally I think the whole thing was kind of ridiculous. I never minded Anita. Actually I thought she rocked, kind of.
@@NotoriousLightning I missed gamergate as I was to old. But I watched a vid on it, seemed pretty stupid to me.
The thing with medicalized ableism is that any word that’s used to clinically or euphemistically describe someone with cognitive deficiencies is going to be appropriated as a hyperbolic term to describe run of the mill dumbassery, so trying to label them as slurs is a useless endeavor. The best that can happen is what’s happened previously: the word falls out of clinical use as it enters colloquial use and another one takes its place
Vaush acknowledged this.
@@claires1063 am I not allowed to leave comments in the midst of watching a video?
@@jakuth99 No, you aren't. Your comment privileges have now been revoked. Egg
Oh yeah. One need not look any further than the lolcow forum to see how people throw around the words "autism" and "autistic" when it's REALLY obvious that they're only using it in place of the word "retarded."
Exactly this. It's also already happening with with "neurodivergent" which was the latest attempt to make a more feelgood term to describe autistic people.
People call Keffals racist was mentioned briefly but no context was given so I'll give it here: People have been claiming that Keffals is racist because she didn't donate her GoFundMe money to a trans black person who goes by Jai. When you ask for proof of her racism these people will either go all quiet or say "it's all over the place! Just look it up!" That's how I found out about this Jai person who seems to believe that they're entitled to Keffal's money just because they're a trans black person.
As to why she got that money: after she was swatted she was able to raise money either for a lawyer to sue the people who arrested her for discrimination (they kept misgendering and dead-naming her) and to move.
KiwiFarms doxxed the hotel room she was staying in based on the *fucking bedsheets* so most of it is going towards a legal team and she's now in hiding. (As far as I know.)
Also, Keffals likes noodles, as I recall.
Don't forget the part about saying that people who are making tenderqueer piccrews should be Black lesbians for oppression olympics
Bedsheets? That's some pol level shit. Listen, I may not like both groups. But I gotta admit, they really do put in an inhumane amount of effort into doing stuff while hiding in their mother's basement
Oh shit, THAT was Jai? Didn't she admit that she's been living off of GoFundMe money for years now?
Shark had a good twitter thread going over all of the "evidence" a while back
if tone indicators became a big thing, people could just sarcastically say they are using a serious tone lol
real (i'm lying)
@@playerkit this is literally true
Exactly, it'll be another barrier in written language to try and decipher
@@imacds i know (i don't)
people literally currently do this lmao
Keffel's guest is willing to call "being made uncomfortable" as harassment but probably would barge into a conversation about interpersonal racism and insist its not racism unless it's power plus prejudice. The goalpost is ethereal and quantum all at the same time.
The kinds of people who complain about words like Tenderqueer and Karen are the exact kinds of people the word was made for and now they're mad that a word with an unambiguous negative connotation exist to perfectly describe their toxic behavior and they want people to stop using it under the guise of defending marginalized people despite marginalized people being the ones who made the word to begin with.
See also: TERFs; people who throw snitty fits about "dumb," "moron," and "stupid; and the sussy people who object to any negative or disparaging use of the word "narcissist(ic)."
It's not so much about not wanting to be unjustly dehumanized, dissed, or demonized as it is about just not wanting to be criticized and not wanting your bad traits and bad behaviors to be called what they are.
@@dinosaysrawr ironically phrases like "you're just jealous," was originally a reflexive defense. Now after seeing Contrapoints Envy video I think its quite accurate.
@@kap1618 , I don't think it's any coincidence or accident that the lion's share of often-incoherent-and-petty-seeming vitriol is lobbed at at a) big channels and b1) trans women who b2) pass well.
@@dinosaysrawr I notice that too. Its disgusting how two face some wokescolds can be. I can't imagine associating with these people irl.
kap1618 Daaaaaamn! Very nice take!👌
"Well this happened!"
"No, it didn't. Here's the proof."
"Well... well... I feel it happened, so say it's true!"
Bleh. Some people just aren't worth the time.
how can you possibly hope to reform someone who's this stuck in that mire of bad-faith mental gymnastics?
"Keffals is the greatest thing that happened to me. I'm off the hook"
-Natalie "Contrapoints" Wynn
What did this natalie wynn do?
Get harassed and tormented by terminally online dipshit trans and enby people for saying perfectly reasonably things.
@@ChillAssTurtle Probably something associated with the Wizarding Game.
@user-nf7ho8jf4y Contra was controversial before the game came out but I can't recall what for.
@@ChillAssTurtle I think she's referring to her own cancellation that happened back a few years ago. The joke is that Contra is free from the claws of the wokescold twitter mob because keffals is their target now.
As a turboADHD haver, I stand in solidarity with my turboautistic comrades
Fuck Yeah
It’s an honor to serve by your side 🫡
Let’s rise up brothers, sisters, and idfk the middle childs
@@gabriellegoodwin4422 Fuck Yeah
Someday we will grasp power from the neuro-normies
Seeing leftism being cannibalized by adults who act like passive aggressive high school teens is so depressing.
Like watching jesters bonk each other on the head with the dragon killing sword while the castle’s on fire
Seriously replied to a twitter thread that was saying raging on Pete Buttigieg is totally justified, I merely mention that since Pete can only enforce the current useless loose regulations its kind of you know more constructive to unpack the players who lobbied by the train industry to water down those regulations and no joke I get a literal death threat and a pile on about how the Biden Administration has been in power for 2 years.
As if merely suggesting to unpack the web of lobbying there was handing Biden or the DNC pass 🙄 No let's just pile on the unelected Bureaucrat who at most could have sounded alarm bells that most everyone would have ignored and in engage in masturbatory virtue signaling while wishing death on people who actually want to see better policy and the toxic influence of lobbying called out.
What a good summary.
Its carnival cannibalism. 😂
this isn't "leftism". this is just someone that is terminally online and has had their brain melted. Most leftists are nothing like this.
I love that their idea of personal growth is admitting they should use tone indicators more often. Wow. Round of applause for the brave twitter warrior. 👏
Keffals has drama
in other news 1 minute lasts 60 seconds
Keffals has drama,,, because it it being thrust upon her
@@ezachleewright2309 yeah just like how the usa gets into wars. it gets thrust upon it
Gravity exists, why?
Fuck knows, does it work?
Fuck yes!
@@felicityc how tf is that in any way a good analogy for this situation at all?
@@ezachleewright2309 funny how it keeps happening with every community including her own.
My reading is that she just isn't very bright and doesn't have much of interest to say and so her viewership dwindles when she isn't engrossed in drama.
Keffals is in a constant state of drama it’s honestly impressive.
Edit: keffals is one of my favorite streamers only saying this because somehow people are reading this as me hating her. I just wanna make that clear because keffals haters are thriving in this comment thread rn
the golden rule is to keep your flame war account anonymous and separate from your talking head or gaming channel account.. Otherwise you will be in a constant state of drama.
Vaush fans thinking that Keffel's deserve the bullshit she gets is really something.
@@reallyidrathernot.134 where not saying that, she just needs more sunflowers
that's her plan
Almost like her whole thing is trying to stay relevant
oh god I feel like a whole social group learned the term “Oppression Olympics” and thought it was aspirational
It was at 1:36:30 that I realized that they were saying "block chain" (as in, blocking people but chaining the blocks) rather than blockchain. I was wondering for over an hour and a half what crypto had to do with this conversation.
lol, same.
Same lmao
oh my God it makes a little bit more sense now
I feel very stupid
Sensitivity is a powerful emotion. It can be great to motivate you to fight back against unfairness and cruelty. But remember that sensitivity doesn't make you right.
I always try to bring up nuance with people for this reason. It's like those "honest" people who have an unfiltered flow of thoughts coming from their mouth, and often don't listen, so they end up sounding rude and ignorant while appearing very proud because they think they are the most honest. person.
I don't know, when it comes to pejoratives and slurs, I kind of feel like the one being hurt by them is kind of in the right. Like it's not your right to decide how much or how little a slur hurts someone. If it hurts someone, just don't do it. Not that hard to just use a different word.
Keff is actually so patient and charitable throughout this whole ordeal and ppl make it sound like she was doing a Matt Walsh impersonation
I watched half the video and I was ready to close the page because how frustrating this guy was. I would have lost patience and told the guy to roam the nearest forest.
@@skyeplus guy?
@@OscarLangleySoryu The wokescold. Isn't that a guy?
@@skyeplus idk if you're transphobic or not I guess that affects the answer
@@OscarLangleySoryu Seems like simple 'yes' and 'no', and 'not exactly' question.
The absolute pain Olympics this person tries to do to keffals is insane "well your disabled and trans well im in a wheelchair top that" its just crazy how that person acted like that this entire debate
Being disabled doesn't give you the right to be an ableist. Why would it?
"Who can be the biggest victim today" is always good show for a laugh
You'd think someone in a wheelchair would have developed a little bit of tolerance to be able to deal with twitter trolls.
The oppression Olympics has been a leftist competition for many years at this point.
@@hamperhamp895how is it not ableist to downplay someone else disability just because you have a “worse” disability?
Can I please just watch my favorite content creators while agreeing with them on some issues and politely disagreeing with them on others, like a normal person? Without being branded as something I’m not because I had their video on in the background while gaming and eating Big Mac?
Sorry, anyone who disagrees with me on anything is just lesser than me. Them's the rules.
yes, irl 99% of people I've talked to have agreed with this, I think it's only really an issue to people online
I still listen to Sam Harris as background noise to remind me of the good old days sometimes. We drifted in different directions but I still really like the guy as he got me interested in politics, philosophy and all that other crap.
The thing is - what if that disagreement was frequently using the t-slur, and not considering it to be a slur?
Disagreements are good. But these people sincerely believe the r-word is a slur. If you would be upset by a t-slur-using creator becoming very popular on the left, surely you can understand where they are coming from?
The issue is whether the r-word is a slur or not. My position is that I don't know and don't really care, the point is it is hurtful and harmful. Ableism is already incredibly normalised and pervasive. Why add to that?
The left generally has a blind-spot when it comes to ableism, and it's exhausting fightings systemic ableism and casual ableism and malicious ableism constantly.
I'm not a wokescold. I don't agree with kicking people out of the left for using that word. I don't agree that using it makes you a shitty person. The dogpile is frustrating and shitty.
But just like the t-slur, or other hurtful/harmful things people say about other groups, I would REALLY prefer that it's use was not further normalised, and I would also prefer if my favourite streamer didn't use it constantly (or loudly defend using it constantly.)
Isn't this what rational leftists are fighting for, ultimately?
Vaush saying that creepy is a slur against autistic people kind of hit a chord with me. I got hit with that word the second I went to school. I’m still all for using the word for people that do actively seem that they might harm someone. I don’t use it towards people like myself that just don’t understand some social queues and thereby forgot to do the socially mandated response
How do you determine that? People used creepy the same way when talking about me and probably you too, unpredictable social behavior makes people concerned.
@@kumaflamewar6524 They are not determinating anything, wtf?
@@kumaflamewar6524 your profile looks like a russia supporter fix it
@@kumaflamewar6524 Unpredictable behaviour? Come on. Whether they have autism or not, the unassuming, socially awkward but generally nice, nerdy guy isn't concerning or unpredictable and doesn't deserve to be called creepy or weird. What, are they like playing with knives during recess or something? Harrassing girls? Probably not.
I mean I dunno, it just doesn't seem that hard.
It's OK to think someone's a bit weird, but you don't have to let them know, and you can still treat them with respect.
People call guys like that creepy because they know they can and they're power-tripping arseholes. That's the real truth.
@softlilangel that's the point though. If you say "I'm not okay with calling these people creepy, but I'll still use it when I subjectively feel others are creepy" you have lost any semblance of credibility.
The vast majority of "creepy" people are just regular people that behave slightly abnormally, but it's impossible to be able to accurately determine who is creepy and who isn't since what you consider to be abnormal behaviour is mostly subjective.
I'm disabled, and have been using the "r word" since middle school to refer to me doing a dumb thing or my friends- it had nothing to do with disability to me, it was just another way to call something I or others did stupid. People getting upset on our behalf over a word feels more insulting and patronizing than the word itself- treat me like an equal and call me the R word casually, don't walk on eggshells to use perfect language in case I might get offended or whatever. We know that people think we're weak, but white knighting for us over a word feels worse than just being treated normally and being called that sometimes.
OK Timmy
@@GG-vy1oydidn’t ask. Anyway, op is right. I hate when neurotypical people get mad on the unasked behalf of us autists. The woke scolds treat us like babies who need to be coddled, rather than real humans. I use the word, my friends use the word, and it’s all good. I’d rather someone call me a r-d than treat me like I’m a little baby who can’t handle “bad” words
@@BigOwl51 You can handle bad words but will censor it?
@@glfrdRUclips can’t handle it bozo. Use your brain
@@glfrd that's just effective navigation of this platform's TOS
This video is so important. You said so many things about the left that has really been on my mind lately, thank you.
"Oh, you've been rationing meds? Well I have glass bones and paper skin! That's why I mass reported you. 😤"
My dentist is harassing me by cleaning my teeth. He's purposely making me feel uncomfortable. Intent matters🙄
The projection on the “you’re alienating people” is insane
People that are marginalized. People that would matter for a leftist.
@@hamperhamp895 what?
@@hamperhamp895 Friend you're in the comments section using the f-slur, I don't think you have room to hand-wring over someone calling a fascist r*t*rded because it alienates disabled people lmaoo
I noticed the projection that there would be biphobia in Keffals' community. I feel like that's projection, we often say shit but we try to keep our heart in the right place. As opposed to people who say the right shit but their heart is often in the wrong place.
That person debating Keffals is the pure definition of a wokescold. I am almost certain this person is lucky enough to have never met an actual bigot, if they are getting that upset over the very mild things Keffals has said.
If they met an actual bigot and got harassed by actual Nazis, they wouldn’t be able to handle it
Once again, we meet a person who would be an absolute nightmare if they ever had any real power.
Someone needs to call these people and make an earnest attempt at polite small talk. They'll crawl into a corner for 6 entire months and stop being everyone's problem
My problem with this person’s statement “Harassment is being made uncomfortable against your wishes” is that it makes it necessary that the act of harassment can be an accident
Ok wait you can deffinitly harrass someone unintentionally. I'm sure people with autism can do that just by not understanding boundries. The problem is that by that definition you can harrass someone without ever interacting with them.
@@TopOfAllWorldsNo tf you can’t, what??
Vaush: imagine what it must be like living like this
Me: no
Being autistic myself, thank you, thank you, thank you for this, Vaush! The r-word's weight and damage come nowhere close to the n-word, and I'm sick of people playing the "civility" card when we call a chud's argument or rebuttal for what they precisely are. Wokescolds should never be welcome in leftist spaces and should be dissociated with.
In your opinion. Many people have a different opinion. When one is dealing in slurs and the discriminated against, best just air on the side of caution, no? It's not a competition.
Pot meet Kettle
@@arkainin4638 Based. Im disabled and when someone calls me r3tarded, it really fu©ks me up (Unless we friends jokin) It usually is also paired with being reprimanded or fired for being disabled, or when I was in grade school it was often paired with being physically assaulted. Ive been shoved into doors, kicked, punched, slapped, and spit on cause I was the "weird kid". Now instead those same kind of trashbag species are usually my managers, bosses, and coworkers. I cant keep a job because of it. The only job Ive been able to maintain because they dont discriminate and they are accommodating to my disabilities is a seasonal summer weekend only job. Its been so bad Im mildly afraid of even trying for a different job.
And im not a bad worker, I have to work twice as hard to prove myself. But the second I need accomodations, like having specific days off for medical appointments, avoiding certain allergens, or needing to sit for a few minutes every few hours (hip condition, with jobs that allow me to sit a bit, I still find a way to be useful), the second I ask for those things, itll either be a saving grace or the end of my employment theres no inbetween. And most times they are smart enough to not fire me, instead theyll up the harassment, bullying, and sh!t conditions ten fold until I physically cannot stay at that job. For example one manager started fu€king with me by saying "sure you can have that day off", then to publish the schedule with the day off, then every freaking time the day before that shift shed change it and say "Ill write you up if you dont come in". When she knew I needed to go to the doctor. (Im in the process of trying to sue that company, but idk might never happen, they did a lot more than that though, they were so cruel it literally became a traumatic experience all on its own)
Oppression Olympics OP?
@@thefridge7335 Can't cope?
Vaush, the thing you said about accepting stuff acritically and the whole "the man is r*ping the woman for beating her so hard at the game and taunting her" are extremely important. I remember when that happened, I was in my anti-SJW days and I remember finding it ridiculous and just another reason to laugh at wokelets.
When I switched sides and started learning, I would also just blindly [oh no, I did an ableism] accept everything because I assumed people knew better and were probably right, but I was mostly just still trying to find a proper balance in my own ideas and ideology. Once I started rejecting the stuff I personally find ridiculous and taking what I thought were valid points (for example, there was a brief time when people tried to argue that posting FaceApp genderswapped selfies was transphobic for whatever reason, which in the past I would have probably accepted without question), I realised I'm still a hardcore leftist for the most part, I just don't think saying the wrong word once makes you Satan, or that learning a dying language constitutes cultural appropriation etc.
Finally, this whole idea of accepting stuff without question is what also led me to believe that by virtue of approaching women I find attractive I was being predatory, disregarding the fact it can be done respectfully and appropriately. I'm mentioning this especially because I think it's related to the idea that the left doesn't care about lonely single young men because I can tell you that being told I was going to be an harrasser just by talking to someone was definitely not what I needed to hear back then. If you check the comment sections of channels such as Courtney Ryan's, there are tons of people pointing out that women online have kept saying they don't want to be approached for years, which led to men today not approaching. And while my personal reason for not approaching has mostly to do with my own insecurities, I can confirm that online wokescolds haven't made things easier for me and probably other men in the same situation
Then don't approach woman as a man, do it as a person
@@asherroodcreel640 don't approach as black, do it as a ✨️person✨️
@@asherroodcreel640 doesn't really work. most people pre-judge you based on superficial things.
@Jewtube001 Then you recognize your preconceptions and don’t act on them?
@@asherroodcreel640 It should go without saying, but "being a man" isn't something a person can opt out of in specifics context because it would be convenient (and that's ignoring the problems with saying a man approaching a woman is inherently inconvenient or threatening to begin with).
1:17:23 “I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning, I break my legs, and every afternoon, I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep”
Like girl I know this legit is an issue for you but trying to put your suffering above keffals in some systemic torture Olympics is really dumb.
Might be poking the hornets' nest here but this kind of purity testing shit is what made the Online Left look so ineffectual in the early to mid 2010s.
"Harassment is when a thing I don't like" these people are 100% the kind of people to call the police because they see a youth skateboarding down the road.
Maybe it's just because in a simp Neo Lib, but I have no idea how these people function in their every day lives. The consistent attempts to compete in the Oppression Olympics must be exhausting.
That's true. When you want someone to hurt badly, you don't call them an r slur. You call them weird, you "worry" about them, you say you're concerned about their behavior. Because for a self conscious person that isn't good at being social, that hurts a lot. And it's what wokescolds love to use. Each time I see them use that abusive tactic, it triggers me.
I literally know nothing about Keffals other than there is an insane amount of drama around that person - and every time I try to understand what's going on, my brain goes to sleep in 5 seconds.
That's how I heard about Keffals in the first place.
the "I could say the same about you. If you want to criticize me for this, you need to look inward." bit completely blows my mind. Like... doesn't that mean that YOU need to "look inward" before criticizing Keffals???
My brain melts when I hear the argument of this wokescold. The mental gymnastics.
If it melts enough, you will join them
The guy literally pulled I'm more disabled card...
The impetus to "get rid of someone" in a social sense is always that you find them annoying. The "reason" you give is just a pretext, and the fact that it's so moralized in these cases is just a slap in the face to anyone with actual ethical stances on anything.
Or you could just hate another person on political grounds. You wouldn't say the same thing about any public figure you react against (because when it's them, it's different). You are not reacting against the transphobia of right-wing figures because it is annoying. You're not reacting against Andrew Tate because he is annoying. Similarly, you wouldn't react against Adolf Hitler because he was annoying. These people shouldn't be thought of as annoying. They should be thought of as bad people with power.
(The only question is whether or not they should have that power, and the answer is NO)
@@hamperhamp895 Ah yes. The "tyranny of should." Keep it up & we'll be "shoulding" all over each other.
This is a banger of a comment, it explains so much of the BS we see on Twitter
@@hamperhamp895 but that's not what's happening here and it's never what's happening in any of these "lefty purging lefty" situations
@@rohiogerv22 I do think that people should get real backlash from ableism. The person in the livestream was cringe. That does not matter to me.
The person keffals is talking to in this vid speaks in a hypersensitive narcissistic tone the ENTIRE TIME. it brings an uneasiness and tightness to my chest out of pure rage and venom for their wickedness that is comparable to a heart becoming acceleratingly infected and filled with pus non-stop, never being able to burst to finally relieve me of the excruciating pain.
In other words, this person's mere existence online is harassment.
"I am not a tenderqueer. Let me prove this by permanently reminding people that I am queer and very tender about that."
took me a while to realize they meant a chain of blocking and not a database.
last night, i saw some people in a group im apart of saying that you can't be a real leftist if you think saying the r slur is ok/say the r slur, and that if you're a leftist who watches vaush you need to rethink life.
people like this remind me that being a leftist does not inherently make you right or smart.
also maya hating keffals and vowsh made me sad
"Who even gets called retarded?"
Idk I was by my teacher when I was fourteen because my ADD and autism had me asking a lot of questions they already clarified.
The tragedy there is less that the r word was used and more that your failure of a teacher would call a student stupid or any word of that nature.
@@SS-xr7jf Maybe people with Autism are severely marginalized? Idk
Does he actually say that? Jeez, this video is a sure skip, dude has no idea what he's talking about this time
Yeah I can say that the word hurts when people use it as synonymous with things that people associate with being autistic like social awkwardness, or difficulty understanding but the issue is with when the speaker obviously is ableist and doesn't distinguish those traits from being bad.
I like to use it to refer to myself and I'm okay with others using as long as the context makes it clear what their issue is. Keffals use of it on stream was because the person she was debating tried to get her account taken down on twitter while they were debating so I think it's honestly pretty funny.
The thing is though the teacher calling you an idiot or a dumbass would be equally as bad from a teaching perspective
Can you actually imagine going on a stream to complain about how you had an annoying evening to someone that gets actual death threats every single day lmfao
As a trans girl who got banned from r/trans for using the R word to refer to fascists because it wasn't "socially acceptable" anymore, really got a kick out of this one :)
Who needs enemies when your supposed allies treat you like that...
Insufferable. "No one is allowed to make fun of me."
I think people have a hard time understanding this type of behavior because they haven’t dealt with clinical narcissists in their immediate family. A lot of narcissists like to promote themselves as protectors or caregivers of others as a way of furthering their own self importance and justifying their terrible behavior as righteous. It’s entirely self serving as we see here it’s just an excuse to destroy everything the narcissist dislikes and be praised for it. You can see it with how they constantly bring up having their night ruined… that’s the real grievance for them, everything else is just window dressing
OMG that was painful😩 Keffals showed more patience and restraint than I think I could muster!!
I’ve completely lost my patience for these wokescold types. It’s like playing a game but every year the rules change and your ability to move on the board only gets more restricted.
Wait, are we still talking about the r word? This isn't anew concept. People haven't liked that for a verrrrrry long time
@@OscarLangleySoryu I just mean in general. It’s always moving the goalpost in terms of language or behavior. Like when white people use black memes calling it “digital black face.” Like, come on.
@@Superunknown190 Digital blackface is an actual term, but what Keffals did is fifteen miles away from it. The people causing drama just appropriated it as a buzzword for this instance.
@@arontavares5248 It's an actual term, true, that's wildly misapplied by people who think they know what it means, including black people who heard the term and just started regurgitating it.
@@arontavares5248if playing a black character in a video game means I’m committing blackface, call me Shane Dawson
There are times when putting your phone down, and getting off the internet for the rest of the day (or week) is your best option. This other person who can't even take a joke from whomever Keffles is needs to do this. I be they refer to many things in life as "harassment" when it's just other people being goofy or silly.
I agree. Throughout this convo I kept saying out loud “but why do you keep engaging if it bothers you so much?”. I honestly pity the other person. To torture yourself so much and then just whine and tattle is just insane.
How about marginalization? Is that a silly word?
@@hamperhamp895 close the computer bro
I lost it when I realized 'people coming into their communities' actually meant their Twitter feed.
When you don’t care about anyone involved in the drama, this shit is funny as hell.
You should care about Keffals. She does great work.
@@claires1063 yeah like bullying other trans people or lying about being "in hiding"
@@hermitcrack9091 do you have any evidence of her lying about being in hiding or of her harrassing?
@@hermitcrack9091 if a trans person is a piece of shit, they deserve to be bullied. If you move to avoid nazis doxxing you, even if it fails, you're in hiding
@@claires1063 What does she actually do? Literally the only times I'm confronted with her it's through other streamers and it's always some absolutely pointless drama and just comes off as very disingenuous. Yet I don't think I've actually heard Vaush ever say a single bad thing about her.
Keffals is coming for vaush's gig
Vowshism vs Italo-Keffian Thought.
What's weirdest to me, is I only ever hear people who use the R-slur and people who are upset about the R-slur is on Twitter or RUclips.
Yeah, I hear it IRL at least once a week
Vaush: "I'm covering up the Subway Surfers tiktok shit, take your adhd meds." Also Vaush: *proceeds to watch a 90 min of Raft gameplay as attention booster during the debate*
I think he might have been actually playing raft here. I’ve seen him for sure play bloodborne (sp?) while talking with someone dumb… and the guy said “you suck at bloodborne!” at the end.
It looks like Keffals was just playing Raft the same way Vaush plays Bloodborne or whatever game.
Keffals was actually playing Raft in the video
Keffals makes much more sense now that you mention it! I stand corrected… I don’t know how articulate I’d be sorting my storage and whatnot while reacting to a debate… Thanks for letting me know!
Vaush forgets one important thing here
bad vision is actually a boon because glasses are hot
5:46 Absolute bars.
Keffals and Vowsh/KKF/Faush Libaugh are great because if someone is constantly seething over them (as opposed to disliking/avoiding/disagreeing with them) it's a reasonable indicator that they suck and paying attention to them is a waste of time.
Agreed. I'd say that they're a great stress-test for basic social literacy and bare-minimum tolerance of social disagreement.
To put it another way, if someone can't even tolerate or brush off the relatively lukewarm levels of "edginess" and argumentativity that comes from Vaush/Keffals/etc. without melting down and drawing hard lines, then there is very little hope that they'll be able to constructively exist in any kind of social movement that's big and diverse enough to actually get shit done, or reliably identify and oppose someone who straight-up fundamentally hates them.
bruh i keep getting called creepy for situations where im just socially awkward. like some friends will say something funny and ill smile even tho im not a part of the conversation, and then some fucker out of nowhere will approach me and ask "why are you smiling all creepy at them?" that shit ruined my day
The asethics of bigotry vs real bigotry thing is so true in my experience. I had high school teachers who I know would put on progressive and accepting acts, but as soon as you ask for any accomodation that mildly inconveniences them, they would say it was impossible.
Man my Twitter feed has been 99% keffals drama for so long now and I only picked up parts of what happened, until now. I knew it was gonna be dumb but I cannot believe aaaaalllllllllll of the nonsense started with something so small
Leftists try not to eat their own challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
Btw, "as a disabled person" (because it makes my point more valid, I guess), the part where they complain about having to do a chore involving their chair wheels felt like whining to me. Like, that's how people with cars talk to me about having to change their tires as well or parents who talk about having to change their baby's diaper. It sounds like whining about doing normal chores, which it is if you use a wheelchair, just another chore to take care of. Sure you can vent about the stress and insurance should pay for it, but it's not oppression to have chores and things to take care of. Made me think of how DJ Muel thinks of making meals as this unmanageable burden on his life.
I love how when the caller is called out on their appealing to Elon Musk and trying to get her de-platformed they start back pedaling to educating Keffals, someone who's life was upended by harrassers, about 'the movement.' When we don't even know for certain if the caller is trans or disabled.
"I HAD TO ASK FRIENDS TO GET PEOPLE BANNED" 😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I LOVE Vaush's Bird of Paradise flower lights in the background next to his silver play button. I need them 😩
Personally, I think going out of the way to say the r-word in spite of the controversy around it (especially when there are a ton of other synonyms) is just edgy and cringe. But I wouldn't cancel someone for it, and I wouldn't try to excise them from the left.
Yeah like canceling is for sure not even on the table, but it does make it awkward to try and show Vaush videos to people who aren’t cool with saying that word and then he just drops that bomb. Really takes away from any good substance there could’ve been to show people.
The more the online left hates Keffals, the more I like her
Yeah I used to think she was like meh. Now I like her for being cool under all this shit.
Idk, sounds like you’re letting the online left decide for you
@@pugsley201 believe me, sitting here listening to arguments for hours and having your mind slowly changed is very different than hearing something offhandedly and rolling with it.
It's almost like you are reacting to the online left rather than arriving at your own conclusions. You're being a reactionary
Like her for what exactly?
Imagine thinking harassment is when something makes you uncomfortable. Who knew my chair was harassing me
This is exactly why the right is so appealing to some people; these joyless people are so tedious.
Idk I grew up being called “autistic” as a slur for being weird and then got diagnosed with autism in adulthood.
Some people have told me “I wouldn’t have said it if I knew you were actually autistic”. This is the kind of vibe I’m getting from the R-word argument…
Context is always important, and this case, the context was just bullying. This is opposed to playful name-calling, or dramatization.
Also, I think calling you “autistic” is way more rude than being called retarded. It’s very specific, and also a disability anybody could have without realizing.
@@foxmusicalchemist neckbeard isnt ableist
@@foxmusicalchemist I think its ableist to assume autistic people are neckbeards.
@@foxmusicalchemist neckbeards are obnoxious chronically online redditors, neglecting their health and personality to the extent that they dont shave their neck. Bam nothing to do with autism. its literally not ableist, it has nothing to do with autism, or even politics. Its a stereotype about redditors, weebs, and discord mods if anything.
sounds like someone called you a neckbeard once and you never let it go tbh.
Just the fact that you can use another word instead of "r****d" while retaining 100% of the message is proof that it's not a slur. Try finding a nicer word for the n- and f-words, I'll wait.
This person is complaining about how people don’t care about their disability, a genuine issue, but using it to belittle Keffals disability. It doesn’t make sense.
I remember this segment. Stand by my statement that Keffals is based.
I CAN see a little bit of the caller's point, in that jokes can land differently to people who are not in a good place to hear them. And I know a lot of trans people are socially isolated and can't just "go outside". But at some point you can't expect the world to tiptoe around you and you have to take responsibility for your own feelings, and if that means you can't handle some jokes, you probably shouldn't be on the internet in a public forum. Find a private support forum, therapy group, or whatever you need to build your core self until it's less fragile. The broader social media landscape is not the right place to expect special treatment.
for fucking real. agree with everything here
So the only moral way to deal with other people's dehumanization of you is to accept your marginalization. Wow, Vaush really has a great community!
@@hamperhamp895that was extremely dishonest.
@@hamperhamp895 I don't think we have the same understanding of what marginalization or dehumanization mean. To me marginalization means the intentional pushing of a group out to the margins of society.
Recognizing that you are not socially able enough to participate in a particular social space is not marginalization, it's self-care. A just society should have space for everyone - that doesn't mean every space in that society is for everyone at all times.
To me, dehumanization means treating or labeling others as if they lack basic human rights such as the right to survive or self-actualize. I fail to see who is being dehumanized in this scenario.
Vaush does have a great community, as evidenced by upstanding gentlepeople like yourself.
@@hamperhamp895 Point number one, they aren't saying that, as is obvious. What they are saying is that it is unrealistic to expect or ask for softer treatment on the internet , and that if one's mental health can't withstand the very possible harassment, one may simply avoid it until said issues are solved.
Point number two, your comment on the euthanasia video: "I hate all the liberal f@****ts on here trying to justify eugenics". It is amazing how, without fault, you wokescolds always turn out to be as toxic, if not more than the people you trip over yourselves complaining about.
That person that's talking to keffals is somehow both extremely arrogant and thinks they're better than everyone but also victimizes themself how does that work
Don't play the victim and then just bring up stuff like I'm disabled and I'm transgender to make yourself appear better than someone else play a role, victim or arrogant bitch
Hearing this conversation melted some braincells
according to this person if my mom starts talking about my childhood awkward moments she's harassing me and i should call the police on her
"How am I a tenderqueer?"
*PROCEEDS TO BE EXTREMELY TENDERQUEER*
I think we just haven't yet reached that point on the euphemism treadmill. If you were to go back in time, you'd see people having just as strong reactions to words like "imbecile" and "moron" as they do now to the r word. Maybe in time it'll become no big deal
I don’t get the double standard in comments from Vaush fans where Keffals is bad/cloying/somehow dishonest to stay relevant by saying controversial things, tweets etc…yet Vaush does exactly the same thing? How can his own fans have a problem with Keffals being known for exactly the same stuff? Is this some latent misogyny or transphobia…?
OH SHIT this is the stream where keffals argued for an hour with someone whose gripe was, they were mildly annoyed for one evening (and they thought this was "messed up")
they even ADMIT multiple times that it was just an annoyance for one evening. And while they pay lipservice to the fact that Keffals' treatment on twitter is infinitely worse, they still inadvertently compare the two.
The caller acts like their ruined evening is worth Keffals completely altering how she speaks about other people online.
There is no way to create content about other people without drawing more attention to them. That includes bad attention.
A ruined evening may as well be the price of admission for having eyes on your twitter account.
honestly, I understand that it's a fun word to use. I dislike it because I was raised in a family that used it to refer to people who were mentally disabled to such a degree, and then I would be called it aswell because of my autism. I have a distaste in the word not because of any political bias, but because it hurt my feelings. that doesn't mean I will stop others from using it. I'll just ask people to please not use it around me. it's really that simple, it doesn't need to be a community wide discussion
I don’t like it when Vaush uses r*tard and would prefer he didn’t all other things being equal. That being said, I won’t stop watching Vaush or liking his content because he uses a word I don’t like because I just don’t think it negates all the other good reasons to watch and enjoy his content.
Streamers aren't your friends
Political figures and activists are not your friends
Nobody cares if you are offended or made uncomfortable
Streamers are entertainers
Entertainment, art, is supposed to make you uncomfortable from time to time.
There is something surreal about the fact that we all will get gassed because of this.
Literal Oppression Olympics
My son has disabilities that are both cognitive and physical. Me and my wife would never use the term. I like Vaush and I don't really mind him using it especially being autistic himself. On this same note I accidentally used the word cripple the other day in a joke and immediately realized my hypocrisy...
I'm in the same exact boat. I have a 4 y /o w/ rare brain malformations that cause overall developmental delays & in the olden days he would have likely been deemed that term. My son has definitely made me think about the word differently & how it might affect his life when he’s older (& hopefully will have more wherewithal,) no longer the cute little boy, but a grown man.
I hope by then we’ve either disassociated that term as one that’s used to medically explain people with low iq & general delays &/or stopped using it to explain an idiot in day to day speech. I definitely have become hyper aware when people use it, so I can judge if the person is using it in a derogatory way towards disabled people or just in a general way to explain an idiסt. If it's the latter I don't see the point in yelling at them. It wasn't that long ago people used it in daily speech, so we need to be understanding that it takes a long time to change what words mean. We need societal changes that can't happen on online discourse & take time to change.
@@ArtisticlyAlexis my son has polymicrogyria. At ten years old now is super happy tho and has favorite cartoons that he laughs at until he gets outta breath lol. He is also doing well with school which is a big deal because he used to bawl when his mother left the room. Basically I just wanna say hang in there
How are we going to disassociate the word with hateful ableism when people saying the r slur think its no big deal? This whole thing is so sad, people who I respect are throwing people like me who has a developmental disability under the bus because of stupid internet drama.
@@darkwraithcovenantindustries These people have always hated you. They only have an opportunity to inch closer to the gas chambers. Vaush has been a known ableist for a long time. If that is not your opinion, then you have not been paying attention.
Don't you think you've reversed the concept? It'll only ever disassociate from hateful ableism if it stops describing disabilities and is instead just used to describe general stupidity in everyday use, the same way "Idiot", "Moron" and "Imbecile" did. The r-slur was at one time supposed to be the less harmful, less insulting, politically correct replacement for the aforementioned terms, and now we're in the exact same position again except with different words.
Y’all should really just go full joker mode whenever these clowns call in and show them what’s it like to actually be bullied