I agree. I’m ready to purchase either the 300 or the 450 and would love to see an honest comparison versus the cost of both bikes. While the 450 is better in pretty much every category except for the display, is it really worth almost twice the money?
@@jkabee Not every category, a big take away I got is 250L made with much stronger consideration to the road. A true DS while 450l is pretty much pretty much a dirt bike with turn signals and just the slightest bit of dampening. Based on what I've read about the 300l especially 300l rally seems like it's even more the case now.
Great summation of facts n figures. Just bought a 2019 CRF250L, absolutely love it. With some small simple upgrades (not even expensive), it's a great bike.
I had a hunch the 250L was the bike for me and your comparison confirmed that. I am closer to your dad in height and age and I have not owned a dirt bike for 40 years, but I have dabbled on friends bikes. I'm a passionate snowmobiler and looking forward to getting back in the game with a summer toy. Thanks again.
I feel what you saying Jeff, its a strange bike. I don't really consider it an enduro though. It couldn't compete with real race bred euro enduros. I think of it as more a trail/dual sport hybrid.
Loved the video and thank you. Much needed info in there for us first time buyers. By the way there is on for sale right now for $7499 on Craigslist brand new. So they claim.
I have a 17 CRF250L and I love it. It is my first bike and it does all I want. I would like a little more low end torque, but at my skill level it is not an issue and mine had a sprocket change also. I ride mostly gravel roads and will be on forest roads exploring. Also at 5'9" and 170 it is a good fit, maybe even a bit too tall for me as I have short legs. It's a blast.
Nathan Hammontree Echo your sentiments. At 5’9” and under 150lbs, the bike is everything l need. The (minor) criticisms some people had on the L were corrected by Honda in the 2017 onwards. We are spoiled for choice these days and always think we want more of everything. The grass is always greener etc. Love the bike as is.
Well done. I rode Honda dirt bikes for years and now want to get my son-in-law and grands interested. I will be the mechanic/paramedic/snack carrier for the group and the 250 will be perfect.
Hey we always need help out there! My brother in law crashed once at our ORV park and we were all alone while he had a broken color bone. Thankfully a nurse showed up and made a sling out of my jersey and helped us load and get out of there so I could take him to the hospital!
I thought that was a fair comparison, well done. It’s like comparing a Formula One race car to a super car - not everyone needs a race car. Like you said, it all depends on the intended use. I used to ride a Yamaha WR450R and now I ride a 2016 Honda CRF250L and I absolutely love it. I have over 15,000 kilometres on it - maintenance has been minimal. I changed the stock rear sprocket with a JT 45 tooth sprocket and it made a MASSIVE difference. I’m merely relaying my experience; I'm not giving advice. With a good set of tires, it is a very capable bike - I ride with Yamaha’s and KTM’s. Perhaps another factor that you could have mentioned, is fuel economy; I get around 60 miles to a gallon of 91 octane.
Really good points. We are changing the gears on my dads soon. We did a mpg test and I got 61 and he got 63. Re doing it later but swapping bikes to see if the rider does much to it
@@DadsDomain - Thank you for the reply. From my research; if you change the front sprocket on the CRF250L from a 14 tooth to a 13 tooth, it wears the swing arm guard and eventually the swing arm far more quickly.
Excellent review and comparison. I still like the 250L better. Long maintenance intervals and reliability, along with decent trail and street manners, and a very good price, do it for me.
I just got my new 2019 450l. This is a tall bike and will beat you up if you can't firmly touch the ground flat foot. I'm 5'10" and I get beat up on the trails, mostly on rocky hills with slow speed. No traction with stock enduro tire, she has slammed me to the ground a couple of times. I will buy the 1" lowering link to make it fit me better before any adjustments. Even thou it beats the crap out of me, I love it. Power, power, power = smiling. I'm still very happy. I will be changing tires asap. Most of my riding right now is dirt. Throttle is on or off, no smoothness off the start you need to clutch most of the time when adding throttle close to a stand still. It's very snappy and again will beat you up. I have stalled it lots when riding tight single track trails that have hills. This is not an motorbike like a crf230, this is closer to a super moto with the wrong tires on it. Hope this helps. Thank you for doing your review, I enjoyed it. Keep rocking that bike dad, it'll keep ya feeling young. I love seeing fathers and sons spending great time together, sharing common interests. All the very best to you both. Would I buy it again? Yup sure would.
I have been wondering if I want to get a tall seat for it. Never had one before but people recommend them for 6’2” and over. The vortex will fix the jerky ness of the throttle but for people with a lot of slow going I almost wonder how well a recluse would work? I might get one someday. If even just once to try them out. Glad to hear you are enjoying the bike. It is a great machine!
I always find the bikes the magazines trash are the best bikes. The klx 250 kawi is a super comfy ride all day bike that rips on the road a d is decent on trails and it's at home on dirt roads. Modified, it really comes to life. It's a dog when new as it must break in and after several break in oil changes really starts to shine. I'm 64 and traded a 1200 cruiser in for this and it's a freaking blast.
Bert Tompkins Hi Bert, l’ve owned them all from Harleys to Fireblades and found the L a revelation. Had one for 2 years now and can’t see me moving it on.👍🏻
Thank you! I really appreciate that. This video and the one I recently did on the 450 vs 650 were ones I spent time doing homework on them because I was hoping to make them good tools for everyone for a long time. Especially since Honda doesn’t change stuff often!
Nice comparison. Another thing to consider is the 250l is made in Thailand while the 450l is made in Japan. If someone wants something that's got a little more power than the 250l is the wr250r while not having to spend too much money. That's what I have currently and may upgrade to the 450l at some point
Actually the build quality of Honda in Thailand is very good. Honda basically build all motorbikes for the world market in Thailand under 650cc including the Honda Wave at 110cc to and including the twin 500's and 650 4 cylinders.
Nice video! I have the 250L and my work colleague the 450 ... no doubt the 450 Is made really much better! The materials, Aluminium frame , screws and all is really made excellent. The 250 is made simple, Thailand manufactured, but is is a great bike for that price! Low service, flexibel, great HONDA quality and I decided to not change anything but sit, ride and have fun! Of course the 450 is a competition bike and it is simply better! Still even the 250 can go off-road quite well and I say it’s lesser about the bike than about the rider! I’m a 250L fan and love the dual character!!! And recommend it for all beginners as well. Great video it’s really detailed!! Thanks
Thank you! We will see if my dad lets me push bike at all this year. However now that I have my springs upgraded it’s going to start being an even bigger difference as I perform a few more upgrades
I have just purchased my second CRF 250L only because the first was so reliable. Compared to the bikes I grew up on, XL 250 and MT 250 the CRF is great. I have been riding for over 50 years and in my youth I would have wanted more, but at 61 it does exactly what I need. I ride in the Philippines and the bike sees off road duty daily in mud and very rocky terrain. All in all a great bike for light to medium off road use.
great review. I've been riding HDs for the last 30 years, now I want something fun and light. I'm so used to heavy and slow. The price isn't such an issue for me, but performance. I'm worried a 250 cc is just too small when my last bike was 96ci or close to 1700cc
I was looking at the 450L for a Supermoto = fun in the canyons and I'd need to lower it enough to fit in the garage section of a Sprinter Camper. Then I found out about the maintenance interval and of course the price. Yeah... for half the money and much less maintenance I think I'll still have plenty of fun on the 250L. I'm getting older, I don't care about getting the front wheel off the ground.
Great, great review, just what I was looking for, thank you. I think the maintenance cost is a big issue here as many owners will be doing half their riding distance to get to somewhere they can ride off road. Not a criticism just a comment. Again thank you, the best video of its kind I've seen.
Thank you! I have a tendency to over research stuff so since I was lucky enough to get to use both I wanted to try and answer all the questions I would have without getting to ride them. I am working on doing a video comparing my brother in laws 650 to the 450 but the weather keeps dropping so it’s a few weeks out but I am hoping to make that useful as well
I really don't put the two bikes in the same category other than they are street legal, that's all the "L" signifies. The 250L is a solid reliable platform for everyday commuting with ease of use and friendly power delivery, The 450L is race bred with accomodations to make it street legal. They share no parts or design elements. there are quite a fair amount of parts that are CRF450L only not used on any other bike. That's a lot of tooling and manufacturing cost that will take the sale of a lotta 450Ls' to recoup.
@@DadsDomain yep, you got me on that one ! There are many dual sport categories theses days, The air cooled/damper rod suspension workhorse, The updated/modern water cooled USD forked, and the Enduro/MX derived. There are combinations of each mixed in between, we're pretty lucky to have these options available off the showroom floor.
Your right suspension makes all the difference. I have the CRF250L, the suspension mods Racetech emulators and springs, Ohlins shock and spring out back did add another $1000.00 but honestly worth the cost. Would I have gone for the CRF450L if it were available in '17? Almost certainly, even at 5ft 8 in. I don't mind the power deficit, I've left that part stock. I love the mileage and service intervals but all in all I would like to have both in the garage. Nice comparison thank you
Outstanding diction, factual content, insights and explanations from a guy who’s “just a Dad” (I say this in good spirits) doing this in his garage. Best Honda Dual Sport review video I’ve seen ever. Most videos are a guy dropping meh jokes & Press Release memos while driving a dealer loaner bike for 20 miles wearing a GoPro on his helmet. This effort is solid. Loved your 450 vs 650 comparo too. A newbie finds it impossible to understand the differences based on surfing Honda’s website. Wish you could produce more comparo videos. 😎👍🏼🏍
Thank you! I really enjoyed doing this video and the other one. It was a lot of years of use and experience that I was able to share here. Nothing like actually owning it. Over time I hope to get to move onto some adventure bikes as well. My current bike isn’t going anywhere but I would love to have something heavier for street use. Plus it would be fun to compare them! 😉
Wow exactly what I’ve been looking for, complete in-depth comparison and fantastic review, answered a lot of questions. Thank you for the upload my friend, ATB From the UK 🇬🇧👍🏽
Thank you for the video ! I have the 2020 CRF- 250 LA . I found the 250 to be top heavy in corners ! Because it doesn't have enough power to come out of the corners is why it feels like this ! Really ' To make it more safe ' I'm going for the back sprocket but just 2 more teeth . Also gonna get power commander for under the seat for better mapping of the fuel , I also changed the big ugly muffler to a FMF end piece ! Now going to get the after market air cleaner so it will allow the bike more air ! Now remember i am going for logging roads & trails w/ my bike & not so much road riding ! I am doing these things to make my bike more playful . And if you feel like you don't want to be so high in the rear ' You can buy a shoter suspension arm & bring the bike down some & then bring your front forks down some too ! I have the anti lock brakes too but i have turned it off & have not tryed it yet . I hope this helps ! Thank you again for making this video ! You can always learn something too from these clips ! Love from Oregon !
I have an old school xr400 great bike sadly no push button, thought about the 250l as it has a doable price but I feel it would be lacking in power for my liking, would love a 450l but at a price of neer 15000 here in aus along with the maintenance the cost is just too much. for the cost of having to kick start il keep my xr and will be riding it long after the 450l has needed an engine rebuild or two. liked the comparison good job, thanks for the vid.
I was looking at bikes all summer. Saw a couple XR400s converted here for street that I was considering. I am glad I got the one I did but that’s a good bike!
The xr400's biggest downfall was the 5 speed transmission. Even the xr250r had 6 speed. And they even had the same ratios. So not easy to use the extra power. Not much good for over 50mph stock. The 250 was screaming at 60mph. 14/43 is nice for the road but (250) tops out around 93mph
Yup, great comments and perspective. These two only share that "L", they are as different as you have shown. The way I see it, the 250L was the answer to modernizing the 230L while using their 250 engine's economy of scale, the 450L is an Enduro at heart which is smog legal. An interesting comparison would be against the KTM Dual Sport... Thanks for the great video.
I'd love to try a KTM dual sport some day. I rode a KTM a long time ago and I just remember it feeling really different. But I know they've changed a lot over the years
Very interesting discussion. As soon as you told me that the Honda CRF450L requires oil changes at 600, valve adjustment at 1,800 and engine rebuild at 20,000; that means that the Honda CRF450L cannot be used as an everyday motorbike (is purely a second motorbike) while the Honda CRF250L can be used as a working tool/commuter. Your calculation regarding the US$2,000 for the power doesn't take into consideration the addition oil change costs at every 600 miles. On the "Miscellaneous" I think only the $100 for the battery would be acceptable. You did a good discussion convincing yourself that the CRF450L is worth the money and if you have the money to blow, then there is no reason not to buy it. Totally agree that for a first bike for dual purpose is the CRF250L.
Well the Cr250r and the 500s used to say to rebuild at 8 hours, but reality was a few years. I was just talking to Wilson's in Madera Ca. and they claim 14.5k miles on a customer bike with 0 issues and still running strong.
No doubt the 450 components justify the money. However, that still leaves those who want a reliable, low maintenance dual-sport with a 24hp 250 or a carb'd DRz.
Great video and info. I am ready to buy me a 250 and just put a desert tank and ride in baja . And not to worry for oil changes and valve adjustments. 450 reminds me of the banshee that i used to have . Lots of money for maintanance.
I never really rode a dirt bike (always rode quads) but I wanted to get on the street since I'm 20 with a motorcycle license and I've always wanted to ride trails/tracks on bike.. I'm just going to skip the 250l and jump right on the 450l and go from there (I just feel that I'll get bored of the 250l quickly). This is a huge change for me but I'm just gonna send it.
If you want to have that Off road power feel you're probably used to the 250l would not provide that. The 450l might feel like a bit much at first but you'll get there quickly
It’s shims. My buddy is getting a 450R later this year. If he gets enough hours on it we are going to check them together to see if there are any differences. I don’t think there will be aside from me having a bunch more emissions hoses. Might be a good day to get them out
12:50 The 250L has a catalytic converter, as does every fuel-injected street-legal Honda all the way down to the 125cc Grom and even the 50cc Metropolitan scooter. For those who like to commute on their dual sport, a catalytic converter is a key feature to avoid smelling like exhaust after sitting at a stoplight.
Nice logical approach to pricing out the deltas. FYI-the 250L does have a catalytic converter. I have a 2017 250L and did the stage 1 power upgrade (FMF can, EJK tuner, 1 tooth smaller countershaft sprocket, aftermarket air filter). I also did the complete Racetech suspension upgrade (front spring and valves, new adjustable rear shock). In that I'm 5'6" (on a good day) with only a 30" inseam, any of the alternatives (WR250R, DRZ400, 650 anything...) are just too damn tall for real world comfort and useability by me. I'd be tipping over every darn day. Notwithstanding my past life of max power with an R1 street bike and a YZ456G desert sled back in the day for riding in the Mohave, Anza Borrego, and the national forests north of LA, the CRF250L is just an absolute joy to ride. Sure, it's underpowered and overweight; but it fires up with the touch of a button (every time!), is smooth as silk vibration and shifting wise, and has a great instrument layout with bar tach, digital speedo, and fuel gauge. I ride with a 1.75 gallon Rotopax aftermarket gas tank, which combined with the 2+ gallon stock tank and ~60 miles per gallon, gives me a totally safe fuel supply for those dual sport rides (like the MABDR) where there are some long gaps between available fuel. Lastly, I picked up my bike during winter (here in the Northeast) and both the dealer and Honda were discounting so I got the bike for $3,999. Sure, I pumped several grand into the upgrades, but it was fun learning about the options and installing them, and the seat heights of the alternatives simply precluded me from going with those choices. It's hard to explain why this bike is just so much fun, but it gives me the giggles both on country roads and mild off road like the BDRs. Again, you put together a nice video.
Was the tuner hard to dial in? I've heard it both ways and my dad isn't one to fiddle. He's tempted to do it but he isn't wanting to chase settings to get it right. Its easy to get lost in mods.....but they are fun!
@@DadsDomain EJK tuner was a piece of cake. It's delivered with a totally acceptable baseline setting. After using that for a while, I did some internet research (Thumper Talk) and came up with a change to 2 of the six settings. It took all of 2 minutes to reprogram. It could not be simpler. For what it's worth, here's the EJK stock settings and my updated settings. Main impact is to the idle setting, and it reduces the "popping" sound on throttle off situations. the last three settings establish the transition points. It'll be obvious if you look at the instructions (which are available on the EJK website). By the way, the EJK is strictly additive-you can't make it leaner than stock. GRN YEL RED GRN/BLU YEL/BLU RED/BLU Idl/Crz Accel Full Throt EJK 3 4.5 4.5 5 4.5 4.5 Mine 2.5 4.5 4.5 4 3.5 4.5
II can tell you one reason the 450 is more expensive. The 250 is made in Thailand with Thai labor and the 450 is made in Japan with Japanese ;labor which is more expensive.
Yeah, it's made in Japan and still need oil change every 10-15 hours of riding. And get split piston wall and crank case...etc Honda sells whatever overpriced piece of crap in the name of Honda reliability which is total BS. just look at africa twin, it's engine and chassis are as wet robust as toilet paper.
I liked your comparison, I did basically the same thing at the dealer. I'm glad I choose the 450L as I knew the 250L just wouldn't be enough for me. I like to be off road way more than on road but like having the option. I have some land out of town and unload the bikes there and can ride to the trails in ten minutes. I found out as has been mentioned that the tires are only good on the street. Where I ride there's lots of mud and those tires rot. Getting a new set in a week or two. Also the bike ran like garbage for the 600 mile break in. It would flame out at random any time the throttle went to idle. Upgraded the exhaust and my ecu is on the way. It could be just me but the seat is hard as a rock. I think i'll be getting one of those too. My son last year bought a new husky 501, so it's been fun to ride together and compare. The main difference I see between the two is, the husky is even more of a case where the bike is a race bike with street stuff tacked on. Their turn signals and instrument cluster are lame. Once he power washed his bike and water got in the cluster and part of that quit working. No locking handlebars, the mirrors are a little large. The clutch seems smoother than the honda though and I think it's lighter. I like his suspension better but I haven't touched my as of yet. His also has a wider power band or gearing allowing you to stay in the gear you want longer when trail riding. On my 450L I have to shift more often than I would like to have the power where I want it. I think I'll get some different sprockets and try that. Though the ecu may help with that. The husky has quite a bit of vibration compared to the honda, after a long ride from the waist down you feel kinda numb.
After mine stalled in my first video it never did it again after I turned up the idle. And no its not you, the seat is a rock because its the same seat as the 450R. Its great you've gotten to ride the 501, I've been curious about that bike but I never regretted going with Honda. I don't like that we have to change the ECU and exhaust but once done I think its going to be an amazing machine that will last a long time. Until I get to ride something better I'm sticking with the assumption we picked the right bike!
Something else that needs to be considered for the price (you know Honda considered this) is that it’s the only modern street legal 450 dirt bike from any of the Japanese big four manufacturers. I think if Yamaha were to come out with something similar the price of the 450L would drop a little bit.
Honestly though my question would more less be where did they skimp out on the 250L? Because the 450 R's MSRP for 10 grand and it's relatively the same bike
I think for Honda the 250l was cheap to design. Carry forward know designs that work well but don’t put performance parts on it. The motor being a carry over was a huge savings for them
Brilliant ! You are bang on at wot you say about the little 250l for your dad and yes it must be fun to have lots more bhp like on the 450l but in england they have ruined peoples hopes of a good honda crf 450l because of the 24 bhp its got ! I would have put up with the service intervals on it ! But i think its still to expensive anyway .
250L is an DualSport.... 450L is an EnduroBike....... Fact very very nice video and superb comparsion i drove both bikes and can tell everyone the 450l is not for the street... at higher speeds it gets very nervous, the throttle on/off/on/off behavior sucks on street, offroad its a great bike, superd suspension and very fast. so please remember this when you decide which bike to buy and testride it !!! dont get blind because only of the power. for me personaly Honda should have made a real DualSport .. an upgraded 250L with a durable smooth 450 engine thats what the most people was waiting for when they heard about a 450L would come...
The fastest I have taken the bike so far is a little over 65 and I was happy with how it did there. Its a good thing they lengthened it over the 450R. While I haven't ridden one I hear they're nervous at top speeds on a track
Excellent, its so hard to sometimes to give a fair comparison for everyone. Nothing beats seeing them in person but hopefully this takes a lot of research out of it for you!
I have a 450L with Vortex ECU & Yoshimura RS4 full exhaust and I love it, but it was expensive as sh*t. As my first ever bike however, it was rough to get used to. A 250L would've probably suited me better haha
I agree with most of your numbers but the Chassis. I for sure would spend more than $500 to get that gorgeous aluminum chassis on the 450L. More like $1500 I'd say. Good comparison though, thanks.
Thanks for the vedio! Let's just say I am closer to your dad's age. I had been looking at getting a Honda crf250f. The reason I liked the 250f was how basic it was, air cooled to name one thing. But after seeing your vedio. Why not pay $500 more and get water cooled, what looks to be better shocks and a head light. Plus the fact I can ride it on the street to get to where I want to ride. Only thing I see wanting to change is the rear tail light and lose the metal rack off the rear fender. I am so glad I saw your vedio! It's got me thinking!!
Brad Sizemore Ditto on the age front. I’ve had lots of bikes over the years from Harleys to Fireblades but bought a 2018 L new and have put 6k miles on it. I weigh 150lbs and am 5’9”. I kept the bike totally stock and that suits me just fine. All things considered, the L is a great bike and is a perfect fit for me.
Fantastic vid! Thanks for your break down! I’d probably put move value to the upgraded suspension, as in what it would cost to upgrade the 250 to the stock 450’s. That being said I really like the way you did this considering I’m trying to convince myself to spend more lol
Hey guys if you want my opinion I have probably the most modified CRF250L Rally on the planet. I have spent 6300$ in upgrades so far not including the bike. I know I’m going to get comments on why I would put so much into a cheap bike and the answer is, I just like the bike and want it to be the best it can be. I wish it came in a 350 or 450 but I still love it and I’ll give you my thoughts. I have the Rally but all these points apply to the regular 250L (same bike basically) 1. -Price-I bought it brand new 4000$ from the dealer. Amazing price to get you into adventure riding for a brand new bike. Mine was two years old so the dealer needed to get rid of it. Those are the best deals. 2. -Parts-This is a global bike so parts are easy to get and dirt cheap if you break something. A huge plus for your first bike that you may be crashing a lot. 3. -Weight-At 350lbs this is a light bike for adventure riders to get started with before they upgrade to maybe a Tenere 700 or 790 KTM. No it’s not a light enduro bike like a 250 EXC BUT it isn’t marketed as such. It doesn’t give too much power to get new riders into trouble. With all that being said you don’t have to spend as much as I did in upgrades but I will tell you what you absolutely MUST upgrade on this bike. Get a 13T up front. Get a FULL FMF exhaust and an EJK tuner. Get a full Racetech suspension if you’re over 150lbs. Change out the terrible stock tires for D606 and as with every bike get a Seatconcepts seat for comfort. I changed the bars immediately and put on Barkbusters as well but those are less important. The nice thing is you can buy the bike and the upgrade as you get money you don’t have to do it all at once. I built mine up over the course of one full year and I have nothing left to put on it. I will be making a video of it soon for my channel. The 250L is the perfect bike for 95% of dual sporters IMO because of its reliability and price. If I’m spending 10k on a bike it will be a Beta 300 or Husky 2 stroke for a plated hard enduro bike. Thanks for reading
If I could get the 450l for $7999 plus government extortion fees I’d buy it tomorrow! Unfortunately, where I’m located (Toronto, Canada) the lowest I have seen a 2019 is $10789 (including Honda’s $1k rebate) and our taxation rate is 13%. So I’m out the door for around $12,200. Most of the leftover models are selling for $11,500 including rebate plus extortion fee of 13%. I was really interested in grabbing a 450l but I might just get a Wr250r as there is a dealer about 1 hour and 20 mins away from me where I can get one for $7k and change out the door. It will be about $4400 less then the 450l. I’m currently making up my mind as to which way to go. Great Video by the way!
Ya those are hard numbers to work through. I am really curious what the used market looks like in a couple years. Not that I am selling, but curious how far they drop
Dads Domain Lets just say that the 450l’s are not flying off the shelves hence the reason why Honda attached a $1k rebate to the MSRP of the 2019 models. If someone purchased one here at the beginning of the year they would be losing big time if they tried to sell now. We’ll have to wait till at least the end of 2020 or maybe 2021 to see what pops up in the used market. I think the major issue is that the market Honda is trying to target with the 450l has been dominated by ktm for quite some time. Guys looking for a race bike with lights don’t want it coming with less power and more weight. The other guys who wanted a more powerful dual sport didn’t want something with a race bike maintenance schedule. I don’t know, we’ll have to wait and see how the market reacts to the 450l over the next couple years.
Great methodology! Agree or disagree with the details, but your approach was excellent. Wonder if it would be worth it for Honda to base the CRF250L engine off the CBR300R instead of CBR250R?
In the UK, we get a restricted 450L, so the power is not much different to the 250, although the torque is higher. Still not worth nearly twice the price unless you can get the derestriction kit thrown in for free.
Interesting video. You're comparing retail prices of course and we all know that Honda didn't pay anywhere near those numbers......so.....yeah, that's a heck of a mark-up.
My Africa Twin cost the same as the 450L, that’s crazy, I’m a big guy that would like a smaller dual sport just for some mild mannered nothing crazy kind of trail riding, so I like the 250L , the AT gets a bit heavy to pick up sometimes.
After swapping the exhaust (which shaves a lot of weight too!), adding a programmer, better breathing air filter and changing the sprocket I LOVE my CRF250l and since I bought it used, I', into it for under $4000...I don't ride super fast tho....each to his/her own
I would see the price of the different components of both bikes and then subtract the price of the cheaper one. Difficult to explain... for example: the suspension of the 450 ($3000) and 250L ($1600), so the difference would be $1400
The 250l has a converter, from the start. The real consideration should be how does it works out of the box. Aside of the spring rates for heavier riders, which both will need, the 250l seems to be a better dual sport. I don’t own one, but a lot of 450l owners have complained about the FI. The bike doesn’t run as clean and smooth as the 250l. Most have gone to after market pipes and tuners to fix it. This is a dirt bike with lights, with all the maintenance that goes with it. Doesn’t deserve the “L” designation.
Great video comparing the two with excellent logic to rationalise the hefty price of the 450 right up until you said "Dampening" which means making something slightly wet, so I'm sure you meant damping. All said and done there is still no justification for the L to be north of 9k
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Would love to see you remake this video comparing/justifying price between the new CRF300L and CRF450RL!
My dad is eyeing that new 300...man I'd love it if he bought it!
The one guy I know of that has one (in Asia) loves it.
I agree. I’m ready to purchase either the 300 or the 450 and would love to see an honest comparison versus the cost of both bikes. While the 450 is better in pretty much every category except for the display, is it really worth almost twice the money?
@@jkabee Not every category, a big take away I got is 250L made with much stronger consideration to the road. A true DS while 450l is pretty much pretty much a dirt bike with turn signals and just the slightest bit of dampening. Based on what I've read about the 300l especially 300l rally seems like it's even more the case now.
Great summation of facts n figures. Just bought a 2019 CRF250L, absolutely love it. With some small simple upgrades (not even expensive), it's a great bike.
Glad it was helpful! The 250l is an amazing bike for the dollar....and it runs forever!
What upgrade have you
Done to it??
Is the crf250l your first bike?
How much?
KLX 250 IS A CUT ABOVE THE CRF 250
Great video. Just bought a 450L. I am so stoked with it! Couldnt be happier with my purchase!
I had a hunch the 250L was the bike for me and your comparison confirmed that. I am closer to your dad in height and age and I have not owned a dirt bike for 40 years, but I have dabbled on friends bikes. I'm a passionate snowmobiler and looking forward to getting back in the game with a summer toy. Thanks again.
It really is an amazing bike. It can go anywhere, runs forever, good mpg, cheap to own....etc You won't regret it
I dont consider the 450l a dual sport. I consider it an enduro with turn signals
Jeff: you are spot on and the 450L cannot really be used as an everyday motorbike.
I dont consider the 250L a dualsport. I consider it a streetbike with dirtbike plastics
I feel what you saying Jeff, its a strange bike. I don't really consider it an enduro though. It couldn't compete with real race bred euro enduros. I think of it as more a trail/dual sport hybrid.
@@hrbestalkinme3690 and higher suspension
Loved the video and thank you. Much needed info in there for us first time buyers. By the way there is on for sale right now for $7499 on Craigslist brand new. So they claim.
I have a 17 CRF250L and I love it. It is my first bike and it does all I want. I would like a little more low end torque, but at my skill level it is not an issue and mine had a sprocket change also. I ride mostly gravel roads and will be on forest roads exploring. Also at 5'9" and 170 it is a good fit, maybe even a bit too tall for me as I have short legs. It's a blast.
Nathan Hammontree Echo your sentiments. At 5’9” and under 150lbs, the bike is everything l need. The (minor) criticisms some people had on the L were corrected by Honda in the 2017 onwards.
We are spoiled for choice these days and always think we want more of everything. The grass is always greener etc. Love the bike as is.
You can regear to get some more torque.
Well done. I rode Honda dirt bikes for years and now want to get my son-in-law and grands interested. I will be the mechanic/paramedic/snack carrier for the group and the 250 will be perfect.
Hey we always need help out there! My brother in law crashed once at our ORV park and we were all alone while he had a broken color bone. Thankfully a nurse showed up and made a sling out of my jersey and helped us load and get out of there so I could take him to the hospital!
I own both also, I picked up my 450 for 9,125$, a vortex ecu and full fmf and the 450 is a monster
How about 250l price u got?
I thought that was a fair comparison, well done. It’s like comparing a Formula One race car to a super car - not everyone needs a race car. Like you said, it all depends on the intended use. I used to ride a Yamaha WR450R and now I ride a 2016 Honda CRF250L and I absolutely love it. I have over 15,000 kilometres on it - maintenance has been minimal. I changed the stock rear sprocket with a JT 45 tooth sprocket and it made a MASSIVE difference. I’m merely relaying my experience; I'm not giving advice. With a good set of tires, it is a very capable bike - I ride with Yamaha’s and KTM’s. Perhaps another factor that you could have mentioned, is fuel economy; I get around 60 miles to a gallon of 91 octane.
Really good points. We are changing the gears on my dads soon. We did a mpg test and I got 61 and he got 63. Re doing it later but swapping bikes to see if the rider does much to it
@@DadsDomain - Thank you for the reply. From my research; if you change the front sprocket on the CRF250L from a 14 tooth to a 13 tooth, it wears the swing arm guard and eventually the swing arm far more quickly.
Excellent review and comparison. I still like the 250L better. Long maintenance intervals and reliability, along with decent trail and street manners, and a very good price, do it for me.
I’d love to test the Wr250r but the crf250l is one of the best values on two wheels out there!
@@DadsDomain Yeah I would like to check out a WR250R too, I know they are good bikes, kind of pricey, but the reliability and versatility is there.
Trevor Jameson
Me as well.👍
KLX 250 IS A CUT ABOVE THE CRF 250
I just got my new 2019 450l. This is a tall bike and will beat you up if you can't firmly touch the ground flat foot. I'm 5'10" and I get beat up on the trails, mostly on rocky hills with slow speed. No traction with stock enduro tire, she has slammed me to the ground a couple of times. I will buy the 1" lowering link to make it fit me better before any adjustments. Even thou it beats the crap out of me, I love it. Power, power, power = smiling. I'm still very happy. I will be changing tires asap. Most of my riding right now is dirt.
Throttle is on or off, no smoothness off the start you need to clutch most of the time when adding throttle close to a stand still. It's very snappy and again will beat you up. I have stalled it lots when riding tight single track trails that have hills. This is not an motorbike like a crf230, this is closer to a super moto with the wrong tires on it.
Hope this helps.
Thank you for doing your review, I enjoyed it. Keep rocking that bike dad, it'll keep ya feeling young.
I love seeing fathers and sons spending great time together, sharing common interests. All the very best to you both.
Would I buy it again?
Yup sure would.
I have been wondering if I want to get a tall seat for it. Never had one before but people recommend them for 6’2” and over. The vortex will fix the jerky ness of the throttle but for people with a lot of slow going I almost wonder how well a recluse would work? I might get one someday. If even just once to try them out. Glad to hear you are enjoying the bike. It is a great machine!
@@DadsDomain I'm 6'4'' and considering the 450L! Thoughts on a taller seat? Great video, thank you!
plenty of educational details for first time biker,
thanks so much.
I always find the bikes the magazines trash are the best bikes. The klx 250 kawi is a super comfy ride all day bike that rips on the road a d is decent on trails and it's at home on dirt roads. Modified, it really comes to life. It's a dog when new as it must break in and after several break in oil changes really starts to shine. I'm 64 and traded a 1200 cruiser in for this and it's a freaking blast.
Bert Tompkins Hi Bert, l’ve owned them all from Harleys to Fireblades and found the L a revelation. Had one for 2 years now and can’t see me moving it on.👍🏻
great comparison.. great review..
Thank you!
Wow what a awesome channel, definitely the best comparison on the net .
Good work guys .
Thank you! I really appreciate that. This video and the one I recently did on the 450 vs 650 were ones I spent time doing homework on them because I was hoping to make them good tools for everyone for a long time. Especially since Honda doesn’t change stuff often!
great comparison ive been waiting on this video
Nice comparison. Another thing to consider is the 250l is made in Thailand while the 450l is made in Japan. If someone wants something that's got a little more power than the 250l is the wr250r while not having to spend too much money. That's what I have currently and may upgrade to the 450l at some point
I didn’t know that good info. I know they have moved manufacturing of the 650l at least once
Actually the build quality of Honda in Thailand is very good. Honda basically build all motorbikes for the world market in Thailand under 650cc including the Honda Wave at 110cc to and including the twin 500's and 650 4 cylinders.
You should see the price of 250l spares in thailand....they're almost free! I fit a lot of 250l parts on my other bikes, im using a lot on my CR250
Very good video review - exactly what I was looking for. My decision is likely the CRF250L. Be careful out there. Thanks!
,
Glad it was helpful!
Great Video! I think you took a really good approach and hit it spot on!
Thank you! I really tried to be fair on the different points and how they are different for everyone
Nice video! I have the 250L and my work colleague the 450 ... no doubt the 450 Is made really much better! The materials, Aluminium frame , screws and all is really made excellent. The 250 is made simple, Thailand manufactured, but is is a great bike for that price! Low service, flexibel, great HONDA quality and I decided to not change anything but sit, ride and have fun!
Of course the 450 is a competition bike and it is simply better! Still even the 250 can go off-road quite well and I say it’s lesser about the bike than about the rider! I’m a 250L fan and love the dual character!!! And recommend it for all beginners as well.
Great video it’s really detailed!! Thanks
Thank you! We will see if my dad lets me push bike at all this year. However now that I have my springs upgraded it’s going to start being an even bigger difference as I perform a few more upgrades
Great job. Love the concept of how you made the comparison.
Thank you I am working on a 450l vs 650l video that should be out this weekend. Then we will have looked at all of Honda’s dual sports
Came back to watch again. Great vid.
I have just purchased my second CRF 250L only because the first was so reliable. Compared to the bikes I grew up on, XL 250 and MT 250 the CRF is great. I have been riding for over 50 years and in my youth I would have wanted more, but at 61 it does exactly what I need. I ride in the Philippines and the bike sees off road duty daily in mud and very rocky terrain. All in all a great bike for light to medium off road use.
I think they are a fantastic bike and while the power might be a little low their ability to run forever makes it worth it
Man that was super. Very thorough
Thank you! Just about have my Xr650l comparison ready to go as well
great review. I've been riding HDs for the last 30 years, now I want something fun and light. I'm so used to heavy and slow. The price isn't such an issue for me, but performance. I'm worried a 250 cc is just too small when my last bike was 96ci or close to 1700cc
I was looking at the 450L for a Supermoto = fun in the canyons and I'd need to lower it enough to fit in the garage section of a Sprinter Camper. Then I found out about the maintenance interval and of course the price. Yeah... for half the money and much less maintenance I think I'll still have plenty of fun on the 250L. I'm getting older, I don't care about getting the front wheel off the ground.
450l is worth every penny !
Great, great review, just what I was looking for, thank you. I think the maintenance cost is a big issue here as many owners will be doing half their riding distance to get to somewhere they can ride off road. Not a criticism just a comment. Again thank you, the best video of its kind I've seen.
Thank you! I have a tendency to over research stuff so since I was lucky enough to get to use both I wanted to try and answer all the questions I would have without getting to ride them. I am working on doing a video comparing my brother in laws 650 to the 450 but the weather keeps dropping so it’s a few weeks out but I am hoping to make that useful as well
I scooped up a 2014 crf250l for 3300 today with 1400 miles..mint. So stoked.
Excellent, thats a great deal as those miles are nothing for that bike
I really don't put the two bikes in the same category other than they are street legal, that's all the "L" signifies. The 250L is a solid reliable platform for everyday commuting with ease of use and friendly power delivery, The 450L is race bred with accomodations to make it street legal. They share no parts or design elements. there are quite a fair amount of parts that are CRF450L only not used on any other bike. That's a lot of tooling and manufacturing cost that will take the sale of a lotta 450Ls' to recoup.
They do have the same tires 😉 but yes you are right. They are completely different
@@DadsDomain yep, you got me on that one ! There are many dual sport categories theses days, The air cooled/damper rod suspension workhorse, The updated/modern water cooled USD forked, and the Enduro/MX derived. There are combinations of each mixed in between, we're pretty lucky to have these options available off the showroom floor.
Add a turbo to the 250 then it’d be perfect
I don't think a Turbo would be much good on an off road bike in reality.
Your right suspension makes all the difference. I have the CRF250L, the suspension mods Racetech emulators and springs, Ohlins shock and spring out back did add another $1000.00 but honestly worth the cost. Would I have gone for the CRF450L if it were available in '17? Almost certainly, even at 5ft 8 in. I don't mind the power deficit, I've left that part stock. I love the mileage and service intervals but all in all I would like to have both in the garage. Nice comparison thank you
Brilliant review, thanks for your time
Thank you!
Outstanding diction, factual content, insights and explanations from a guy who’s “just a Dad” (I say this in good spirits) doing this in his garage. Best Honda Dual Sport review video I’ve seen ever. Most videos are a guy dropping meh jokes & Press Release memos while driving a dealer loaner bike for 20 miles wearing a GoPro on his helmet. This effort is solid. Loved your 450 vs 650 comparo too. A newbie finds it impossible to understand the differences based on surfing Honda’s website. Wish you could produce more comparo videos. 😎👍🏼🏍
Thank you! I really enjoyed doing this video and the other one. It was a lot of years of use and experience that I was able to share here. Nothing like actually owning it. Over time I hope to get to move onto some adventure bikes as well. My current bike isn’t going anywhere but I would love to have something heavier for street use. Plus it would be fun to compare them! 😉
Wow exactly what I’ve been looking for, complete in-depth comparison and fantastic review, answered a lot of questions. Thank you for the upload my friend, ATB From the UK 🇬🇧👍🏽
I am glad it helped out! They are both great. I am lucky to have access to both
Thank you for the video ! I have the 2020 CRF- 250 LA . I found the 250 to be top heavy in corners ! Because it doesn't have enough power to come out of the corners is why it feels like this ! Really ' To make it more safe ' I'm going for the back sprocket but just 2 more teeth . Also gonna get power commander for under the seat for better mapping of the fuel , I also changed the big ugly muffler to a FMF end piece ! Now going to get the after market air cleaner so it will allow the bike more air ! Now remember i am going for logging roads & trails w/ my bike & not so much road riding ! I am doing these things to make my bike more playful . And if you feel like you don't want to be so high in the rear ' You can buy a shoter suspension arm & bring the bike down some & then bring your front forks down some too ! I have the anti lock brakes too but i have turned it off & have not tryed it yet . I hope this helps ! Thank you again for making this video ! You can always learn something too from these clips ! Love from Oregon !
I have an old school xr400 great bike sadly no push button, thought about the 250l as it has a doable price but I feel it would be lacking in power for my liking, would love a 450l but at a price of neer 15000 here in aus along with the maintenance the cost is just too much. for the cost of having to kick start il keep my xr and will be riding it long after the 450l has needed an engine rebuild or two. liked the comparison good job, thanks for the vid.
I was looking at bikes all summer. Saw a couple XR400s converted here for street that I was considering. I am glad I got the one I did but that’s a good bike!
The xr400's biggest downfall was the 5 speed transmission. Even the xr250r had 6 speed. And they even had the same ratios. So not easy to use the extra power. Not much good for over 50mph stock. The 250 was screaming at 60mph. 14/43 is nice for the road but (250) tops out around 93mph
I've seen a few with very low klms for 10K.
Yup, great comments and perspective. These two only share that "L", they are as different as you have shown.
The way I see it, the 250L was the answer to modernizing the 230L while using their 250 engine's economy of scale, the 450L is an Enduro at heart which is smog legal. An interesting comparison would be against the KTM Dual Sport... Thanks for the great video.
I'd love to try a KTM dual sport some day. I rode a KTM a long time ago and I just remember it feeling really different. But I know they've changed a lot over the years
Thank you for this video. I needed the comparison
As always great content keep it up
Very interesting discussion.
As soon as you told me that the Honda CRF450L requires oil changes at 600, valve adjustment at 1,800 and engine rebuild at 20,000; that means that the Honda CRF450L cannot be used as an everyday motorbike (is purely a second motorbike) while the Honda CRF250L can be used as a working tool/commuter.
Your calculation regarding the US$2,000 for the power doesn't take into consideration the addition oil change costs at every 600 miles.
On the "Miscellaneous" I think only the $100 for the battery would be acceptable.
You did a good discussion convincing yourself that the CRF450L is worth the money and if you have the money to blow, then there is no reason not to buy it.
Totally agree that for a first bike for dual purpose is the CRF250L.
Well the Cr250r and the 500s used to say to rebuild at 8 hours, but reality was a few years. I was just talking to Wilson's in Madera Ca. and they claim 14.5k miles on a customer bike with 0 issues and still running strong.
That’s a great break down of pricing..
Don't forget the Renthal bars on the 450 versus the steelies on the 250. Great video!
No doubt the 450 components justify the money. However, that still leaves those who want a reliable, low maintenance dual-sport with a 24hp 250 or a carb'd DRz.
The 450L engine is low maintenance, aside from oil change interval, which literaly takes 3 minutes.
Great commentary.
Thank you!
In the market for the 450L and this vid was very helpful.
Great video and info.
I am ready to buy me a 250 and just put a desert tank and ride in baja . And not to worry for oil changes and valve adjustments. 450 reminds me of the banshee that i used to have . Lots of money for maintanance.
If you want to rack up the miles the 250 is great for sure
My first bike was a 230L and it was lovely. There's no way I'll do that much oil change for a race engine.
I remember seeing a 230 at a dealer but we never road one
@@DadsDomain ...... rode one not road one :)
Great video! Thanks for posting.
Thank you!
I never really rode a dirt bike (always rode quads) but I wanted to get on the street since I'm 20 with a motorcycle license and I've always wanted to ride trails/tracks on bike.. I'm just going to skip the 250l and jump right on the 450l and go from there (I just feel that I'll get bored of the 250l quickly). This is a huge change for me but I'm just gonna send it.
If you want to have that Off road power feel you're probably used to the 250l would not provide that. The 450l might feel like a bit much at first but you'll get there quickly
4:35 I have a WR250R. I'd like more power. But I'd be checking the valve clearance as often as I change my oil. That sucks.
As more people are putting miles on the bike they are appearing to hold clearance. Can’t speak for myself yet because I don’t have enough yet though
Dads Domain you need to drive that think more!! Thank you for the great video. Do you need shims to adjust or is there a built in adjuster?
It’s shims. My buddy is getting a 450R later this year. If he gets enough hours on it we are going to check them together to see if there are any differences. I don’t think there will be aside from me having a bunch more emissions hoses. Might be a good day to get them out
12:50 The 250L has a catalytic converter, as does every fuel-injected street-legal Honda all the way down to the 125cc Grom and even the 50cc Metropolitan scooter. For those who like to commute on their dual sport, a catalytic converter is a key feature to avoid smelling like exhaust after sitting at a stoplight.
This is something I got wrong on this video.
Now a video 450L vs 300L!!!😁😁😁
Nice review. What i think is missing in your evaluation is the cost of maintenance for each. The 250 is a tractor, the 450 is much higher maintenance.
exactly
He mentioned that 450 maintenance cost way more..like oil changes between..
Great job! I'm considering the new CRF300L or RL versus the CRF450RL. Your video was VERY helpful. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
wow great video.. I just bought a 2020 250 and this put to rest some of my doubts about the difference
Nice logical approach to pricing out the deltas. FYI-the 250L does have a catalytic converter. I have a 2017 250L and did the stage 1 power upgrade (FMF can, EJK tuner, 1 tooth smaller countershaft sprocket, aftermarket air filter). I also did the complete Racetech suspension upgrade (front spring and valves, new adjustable rear shock). In that I'm 5'6" (on a good day) with only a 30" inseam, any of the alternatives (WR250R, DRZ400, 650 anything...) are just too damn tall for real world comfort and useability by me. I'd be tipping over every darn day. Notwithstanding my past life of max power with an R1 street bike and a YZ456G desert sled back in the day for riding in the Mohave, Anza Borrego, and the national forests north of LA, the CRF250L is just an absolute joy to ride. Sure, it's underpowered and overweight; but it fires up with the touch of a button (every time!), is smooth as silk vibration and shifting wise, and has a great instrument layout with bar tach, digital speedo, and fuel gauge. I ride with a 1.75 gallon Rotopax aftermarket gas tank, which combined with the 2+ gallon stock tank and ~60 miles per gallon, gives me a totally safe fuel supply for those dual sport rides (like the MABDR) where there are some long gaps between available fuel. Lastly, I picked up my bike during winter (here in the Northeast) and both the dealer and Honda were discounting so I got the bike for $3,999. Sure, I pumped several grand into the upgrades, but it was fun learning about the options and installing them, and the seat heights of the alternatives simply precluded me from going with those choices. It's hard to explain why this bike is just so much fun, but it gives me the giggles both on country roads and mild off road like the BDRs. Again, you put together a nice video.
Was the tuner hard to dial in? I've heard it both ways and my dad isn't one to fiddle. He's tempted to do it but he isn't wanting to chase settings to get it right. Its easy to get lost in mods.....but they are fun!
@@DadsDomain EJK tuner was a piece of cake. It's delivered with a totally acceptable baseline setting. After using that for a while, I did some internet research (Thumper Talk) and came up with a change to 2 of the six settings. It took all of 2 minutes to reprogram. It could not be simpler. For what it's worth, here's the EJK stock settings and my updated settings. Main impact is to the idle setting, and it reduces the "popping" sound on throttle off situations. the last three settings establish the transition points. It'll be obvious if you look at the instructions (which are available on the EJK website). By the way, the EJK is strictly additive-you can't make it leaner than stock.
GRN YEL RED GRN/BLU YEL/BLU RED/BLU
Idl/Crz Accel Full Throt
EJK 3 4.5 4.5 5 4.5 4.5
Mine 2.5 4.5 4.5 4 3.5 4.5
best comparison we could find
Glad to hear that considering how much content is there is out there!
Great job! Nice review 👍
II can tell you one reason the 450 is more expensive.
The 250 is made in Thailand with Thai labor and the 450 is made in Japan with Japanese ;labor which is more expensive.
Yeah, it's made in Japan and still need oil change every 10-15 hours of riding. And get split piston wall and crank case...etc Honda sells whatever overpriced piece of crap in the name of Honda reliability which is total BS. just look at africa twin, it's engine and chassis are as wet robust as toilet paper.
I liked your comparison, I did basically the same thing at the dealer. I'm glad I choose the 450L as I knew the 250L just wouldn't be enough for me.
I like to be off road way more than on road but like having the option. I have some land out of town and unload the bikes there and can ride to the trails in ten minutes.
I found out as has been mentioned that the tires are only good on the street. Where I ride there's lots of mud and those tires rot.
Getting a new set in a week or two. Also the bike ran like garbage for the 600 mile break in. It would flame out at random any time the throttle went to idle.
Upgraded the exhaust and my ecu is on the way. It could be just me but the seat is hard as a rock. I think i'll be getting one of those too.
My son last year bought a new husky 501, so it's been fun to ride together and compare.
The main difference I see between the two is, the husky is even more of a case where the bike is a race bike with street stuff tacked on. Their turn signals and instrument cluster
are lame. Once he power washed his bike and water got in the cluster and part of that quit working. No locking handlebars, the mirrors are a little large. The clutch seems smoother
than the honda though and I think it's lighter.
I like his suspension better but I haven't touched my as of yet. His also has a wider power band or gearing allowing you to stay in the gear you want longer when trail riding.
On my 450L I have to shift more often than I would like to have the power where I want it. I think I'll get some different sprockets and try that. Though the ecu may help with that.
The husky has quite a bit of vibration compared to the honda, after a long ride from the waist down you feel kinda numb.
After mine stalled in my first video it never did it again after I turned up the idle. And no its not you, the seat is a rock because its the same seat as the 450R. Its great you've gotten to ride the 501, I've been curious about that bike but I never regretted going with Honda. I don't like that we have to change the ECU and exhaust but once done I think its going to be an amazing machine that will last a long time. Until I get to ride something better I'm sticking with the assumption we picked the right bike!
Thoughtful analysis...thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Something else that needs to be considered for the price (you know Honda considered this) is that it’s the only modern street legal 450 dirt bike from any of the Japanese big four manufacturers. I think if Yamaha were to come out with something similar the price of the 450L would drop a little bit.
I really hope they do. The WR450 is fantastic and there is no reason they couldn’t use that platform
Honestly though my question would more less be where did they skimp out on the 250L? Because the 450 R's MSRP for 10 grand and it's relatively the same bike
I think for Honda the 250l was cheap to design. Carry forward know designs that work well but don’t put performance parts on it. The motor being a carry over was a huge savings for them
@@DadsDomain True, btw a good review for the type of use you have it for.
Thank you
Brilliant ! You are bang on at wot you say about the little 250l for your dad and yes it must be fun to have lots more bhp like on the 450l but in england they have ruined peoples hopes of a good honda crf 450l because of the 24 bhp its got ! I would have put up with the service intervals on it ! But i think its still to expensive anyway .
I am hoping people over in England can figure out how to wake it up!
250L is an DualSport.... 450L is an EnduroBike....... Fact
very very nice video and superb comparsion
i drove both bikes and can tell everyone the 450l is not for the street... at higher speeds it gets very nervous, the throttle on/off/on/off behavior sucks on street, offroad its a great bike, superd suspension and very fast.
so please remember this when you decide which bike to buy and testride it !!! dont get blind because only of the power.
for me personaly Honda should have made a real DualSport .. an upgraded 250L with a durable smooth 450 engine thats what the most people was waiting for when they heard about a 450L would come...
The fastest I have taken the bike so far is a little over 65 and I was happy with how it did there. Its a good thing they lengthened it over the 450R. While I haven't ridden one I hear they're nervous at top speeds on a track
Agree. And only $1000 more then the 250L
As a new rider I think I’m going with the 250
I would definitely recommend it. It’s an amazing first bike but one of the rare ones that’s fun for almost any rider of any skill level.
I have a 2014 250l with 5.5k miles and would love to find a 8k deal on the 450l like yours! Nice one!
Thanks, I have no regrets for the price I paid.
Thank you for the video! Great info.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My 2015 250L definitely has a catalytic converter in the stock exhaust.
Yep I got that part wrong
I was considering the 450L but no more. Thanks for the review. It's just not what I am looking for. The 250L is almost it.
Excellent, its so hard to sometimes to give a fair comparison for everyone. Nothing beats seeing them in person but hopefully this takes a lot of research out of it for you!
I have a 450L with Vortex ECU & Yoshimura RS4 full exhaust and I love it, but it was expensive as sh*t. As my first ever bike however, it was rough to get used to. A 250L would've probably suited me better haha
To sum it up, All the extra cost went to these parts..
Suspension
Lightweight
Power
Cheap on it.. you'll get the 250L
Pretty much!
I agree with most of your numbers but the Chassis. I for sure would spend more than $500 to get that gorgeous aluminum chassis on the 450L. More like $1500 I'd say. Good comparison though, thanks.
Ya I really struggled with that part. The good part of the crf250l chassis though is it’s cargo/rider weight limit is a 100lbs higher
Thanks for the vedio! Let's just say I am closer to your dad's age. I had been looking at getting a Honda crf250f. The reason I liked the 250f was how basic it was, air cooled to name one thing. But after seeing your vedio. Why not pay $500 more and get water cooled, what looks to be better shocks and a head light. Plus the fact I can ride it on the street to get to where I want to ride. Only thing I see wanting to change is the rear tail light and lose the metal rack off the rear fender. I am so glad I saw your vedio! It's got me thinking!!
Brad Sizemore Ditto on the age front. I’ve had lots of bikes over the years from Harleys to Fireblades but bought a 2018 L new and have put 6k miles on it. I weigh 150lbs and am 5’9”. I kept the bike totally stock and that suits me just fine. All things considered, the L is a great bike and is a perfect fit for me.
Fantastic vid!
Thanks for your break down!
I’d probably put move value to the upgraded suspension, as in what it would cost to upgrade the 250 to the stock 450’s.
That being said I really like the way you did this considering I’m trying to convince myself to spend more lol
Hey guys if you want my opinion I have probably the most modified CRF250L Rally on the planet. I have spent 6300$ in upgrades so far not including the bike. I know I’m going to get comments on why I would put so much into a cheap bike and the answer is, I just like the bike and want it to be the best it can be. I wish it came in a 350 or 450 but I still love it and I’ll give you my thoughts. I have the Rally but all these points apply to the regular 250L (same bike basically)
1. -Price-I bought it brand new 4000$ from the dealer. Amazing price to get you into adventure riding for a brand new bike. Mine was two years old so the dealer needed to get rid of it. Those are the best deals.
2. -Parts-This is a global bike so parts are easy to get and dirt cheap if you break something. A huge plus for your first bike that you may be crashing a lot.
3. -Weight-At 350lbs this is a light bike for adventure riders to get started with before they upgrade to maybe a Tenere 700 or 790 KTM. No it’s not a light enduro bike like a 250 EXC BUT it isn’t marketed as such. It doesn’t give too much power to get new riders into trouble.
With all that being said you don’t have to spend as much as I did in upgrades but I will tell you what you absolutely MUST upgrade on this bike. Get a 13T up front. Get a FULL FMF exhaust and an EJK tuner. Get a full Racetech suspension if you’re over 150lbs. Change out the terrible stock tires for D606 and as with every bike get a Seatconcepts seat for comfort. I changed the bars immediately and put on Barkbusters as well but those are less important. The nice thing is you can buy the bike and the upgrade as you get money you don’t have to do it all at once. I built mine up over the course of one full year and I have nothing left to put on it. I will be making a video of it soon for my channel. The 250L is the perfect bike for 95% of dual sporters IMO because of its reliability and price. If I’m spending 10k on a bike it will be a Beta 300 or Husky 2 stroke for a plated hard enduro bike. Thanks for reading
My dad is considering the exhaust and tuner, on top of the gearing change I expect that to create a huge jump as a package compared to stock
Dads Domain it’s honestly not even the same bike after that
Thanks for the comparison! The 450 looks really good! But I am probably more for the lower price and take the 250... :D
If I could get the 450l for $7999 plus government extortion fees I’d buy it tomorrow! Unfortunately, where I’m located (Toronto, Canada) the lowest I have seen a 2019 is $10789 (including Honda’s $1k rebate) and our taxation rate is 13%. So I’m out the door for around $12,200. Most of the leftover models are selling for $11,500 including rebate plus extortion fee of 13%. I was really interested in grabbing a 450l but I might just get a Wr250r as there is a dealer about 1 hour and 20 mins away from me where I can get one for $7k and change out the door. It will be about $4400 less then the 450l. I’m currently making up my mind as to which way to go.
Great Video by the way!
Ya those are hard numbers to work through. I am really curious what the used market looks like in a couple years. Not that I am selling, but curious how far they drop
Dads Domain Lets just say that the 450l’s are not flying off the shelves hence the reason why Honda attached a $1k rebate to the MSRP of the 2019 models. If someone purchased one here at the beginning of the year they would be losing big time if they tried to sell now. We’ll have to wait till at least the end of 2020 or maybe 2021 to see what pops up in the used market. I think the major issue is that the market Honda is trying to target with the 450l has been dominated by ktm for quite some time. Guys looking for a race bike with lights don’t want it coming with less power and more weight. The other guys who wanted a more powerful dual sport didn’t want something with a race bike maintenance schedule. I don’t know, we’ll have to wait and see how the market reacts to the 450l over the next couple years.
Sinister Veritas Our high tax rates pay for our “free” health care system.
You're the man. Thank you.
No problem!
Thanks great and serious report
Great methodology! Agree or disagree with the details, but your approach was excellent. Wonder if it would be worth it for Honda to base the CRF250L engine off the CBR300R instead of CBR250R?
I think the 50cc bump would be welcomed
best review. thank you.
Thank you!
In the UK, we get a restricted 450L, so the power is not much different to the 250, although the torque is higher. Still not worth nearly twice the price unless you can get the derestriction kit thrown in for free.
Fantastic breakdown.
Thank you!
Great review!!
Thank you!
Great work! Exactly the kind of comparison we've needed since launch.
Thanks! I hope it helps people for a few years since Honda probably won’t change anything for awhile
What’s the rebuild cost of the 450l?
Interesting video. You're comparing retail prices of course and we all know that Honda didn't pay anywhere near those numbers......so.....yeah, that's a heck of a mark-up.
My Africa Twin cost the same as the 450L, that’s crazy, I’m a big guy that would like a smaller dual sport just for some mild mannered nothing crazy kind of trail riding, so I like the 250L , the AT gets a bit heavy to pick up sometimes.
My dad wishes he had a AT for road rides, they look like a nice bike!
Dads Domain they are amazing! Great on the road, and confidence inspiring off road!
After swapping the exhaust (which shaves a lot of weight too!), adding a programmer, better breathing air filter and changing the sprocket I LOVE my CRF250l and since I bought it used, I', into it for under $4000...I don't ride super fast tho....each to his/her own
seattle.craigslist.org/sno/mcd/d/mount-vernon-2019-honda-crf450l/7033482199.html prices are coming down....maybe I'll switch up!
I think my dad is getting closer to doing some power mods and the sprocket. I think he would be happy with them
I just wish honda would make 450m variant and put a cb500x engine in it
I am surprised they haven’t as well
@@DadsDomain i agree..
Then it would be perfect!
Factory Supermoto?
just get the cb500x then
great information great video I subscribed 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Awesome, glad you enjoyed it
glad the piston skirt is longer I prefer reliable power
K-tech front spring £55 rear shock spring also k-tech £85 transforms the 250l on and offroad
Great video.
Thanks!
Thoughts on these two compared to the XR400? Was considering the 250, but know I'm not gonna be satisfied with the power...
I've never gotten to ride the 400 but I think the 650 has similar power to the 400 it just ways a lot more. The 250 would be down quite a bit.
I would see the price of the different components of both bikes and then subtract the price of the cheaper one. Difficult to explain... for example: the suspension of the 450 ($3000) and 250L ($1600), so the difference would be $1400
The 250l has a converter,
from the start.
The real consideration should be how does it works out of the box.
Aside of the spring rates for heavier riders, which both will need,
the 250l seems to be a better dual sport.
I don’t own one, but a lot of 450l owners have complained about the FI.
The bike doesn’t run as clean and smooth as the 250l.
Most have gone to after market pipes and tuners to fix it.
This is a dirt bike with lights, with all the maintenance that goes with it.
Doesn’t deserve the “L” designation.
I was wrong about the cat it does have one. I feel like the 450 should be called a 450XL or something other than just L. It’s not that simple
they should do some CRF500L, engine from CB500X that would be awesome
Are there any new inline 2 cylinder dirtbikes/dualsports on the market right now?
@@eeronieminen nothing major, the only thing I could think of is the kawi 300 "dual sport"
Valve check interval is the same as rebuild for 450L, 20k miles
Big difference there between the two!
Great video comparing the two with excellent logic to rationalise the hefty price of the 450 right up until you said "Dampening" which means making something slightly wet, so I'm sure you meant damping. All said and done there is still no justification for the L to be north of 9k
Ha! Honestly until someone calls you out on stuff like that you don't realize how you're saying it 😉
I like the maintenance program better for the 250,, need to add $$$ to your calculation