ELAC VELA BS 403 Review. Beautiful and Smooth!
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Written review/data can be found here:
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0:00 - Intro
0:29 - Subjective
7:14 - Objective
12:25 - Summary
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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I have these Elac vela BS 403, use them everyday with NAD C298 & Node X, simple setup. What I like most is how smooth they sound, the industrial design and zero listening fatigue over time. Not sure about the hump, but before the nad/node I used lyngdorf with room perfect, with maybe a more clinical sound with that.
So the node x can be used as a preamp?
Damn, you are keeping busy today. Two videos AND a live stream. Thanks for the quality content
Thanks, Erin. An exceptionally lucid review. You are really giving a clinic on how to interpret these Klippel measurements, so thanks especially for that. Hopefully, what you and others are doing in this regard will result in a far more "clued-in" audiophile community.
Agreed
Killing it, superbly relevant material.
Next?Elac Carina floorstanders!
I own this speaker for two years now and you are 100% spot on. The moment I place them correctly they sound beautiful and remarkably fatigue free. I tried a lot of amps until I found the one that brings out the midrange the way I like it (Heed Elixir). Now the vocals are as present as I always wanted them to be. I tried nine amps 😅 Some made the Vela play deeper but the Elixir by Heed brings the midrange magic I missed before.
What amps have you tried other than the Elixir? Cambridge Audio? I have a cxa60 and would like to hear your impressions if you've had a chance to try it.
@@luchino88888 I tried the Azur 851A for several months. That is HiFi. I can recommend that combo for the Azur sheer low end power. I tried the Arcam SA20, the Elac DS-A101, the Vincent SV500, Unison Research Unico Primo (🤩), Audiolab Omnia, 6000A, Arcam Solo Misic MKII, Marantz PM7000N, Sonoro Maestro, NAD C356 BEE, Rotel A14 and the Heed Elixir.
It's a share you have to try so many amps . It really shows they are lacking .
I heard them on large room ' show room ' and didn't like them . I would to hear them at home to get a better opinion.
Love a speaker that great on voices thou.
Great review Erin! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
Killin' it Erin 👍
thanks, ive always been curious about these.
Thanks for showing these practical examples of simple PEQ filters to even out the frequency response. Should be helpful for all those people with a Wiim streamer (or with Roon).
My Velas sound great: 409s in the front and 403s in the back. ELAC makes the AMTs in Germany. Other companies source them from China. They do react positively to better amps than what you used. I drive the 409s with an Orchard Starkrimson Stereo Ultra DMC 2.0; the 403s with an ELAC Alchemy DPA-2 - the amps matter!
I also have the 409. Awsome speakers. I've measured them with rew and umik and they do not have the notch and bump in the frequency response that the 403 have. I chose the 409 over the Kef R11. The wider dispersion and the extended tremble response trumped R11 lower distortion for me.
You've been on an impressive run of review drops this month... I'm happy for you... Here's to more throughout the year
I still have a pair of ELAC speakers from the 90's, they are just great and transparent.
I like to hear the comments on dynamics/attack as that is super important to sounding less reproduced.
That dip in the response would drive me crazy just knowing that it's there and I just paid $2900 for the speakers. My source is PC with optical out to the amp. How I measure and eq the speakers is by using REW, Dayton Audio mic and Equalizer APO. Those have done the trick for years for me.
Thanks for the great work, i Hope you'll be able to test the bigger Brother 404 as well
Maybe Elac will build a Erin Hardison Edition without that Dip? 😁
Another bookshelf speaker I recently heard and liked was the Polk Audio Elite ES20. It would be great to see you test and review it.
Thanks Erin ... a proper examination as always.
However; no grills and high gloss finish ... both deal breakers for me.
Erin's on a role recently
He's also an actor?
Recent thoughts on crossing over sealed or ported subs, with sealed or ported speakers has given me a new curiosity for how speakers perform with their ports plugged.
So maybe consider adding that element into your reviews, or maybe a dedicated episode with a few different examples exploring the topic.
I’m particularly interested in the harmonic analysis of those differences, and I’m loving the way you’re graphing 2nd,3rd,4th,5th etc that’s really cool!
Euphonic Distortion is a huge area of interest for me.
Using these with NAD M10V2 and when I ran Dirac I got exactly the same dip and I eq-ed it,but ended up bringing it just a little bit back,I guess personal preference,in my room it sounded smoother with just like 1.5db dip
How big is your room? I have a 6m X 9m space.
@@PaulRLight Small,3.5m X 4.5m
Emotiva t1+ in my room after playing around for about 5-7 days ended up with the right speaker at 13" from the rear to the wall/corner of room, but the left 17" from the more open wall (wall closer to door). 🔊🔊
That Tweeter is impressive compact enough to give good off axis response but with enough surface area for low distortion and compression at higher output levels.
Nice Work as always. It would be interesting to hunt down the source of the dip / peak pair. An internal reflection can cause those close spaced pairs. Unfortunately that sort of thing can take a lot of time to do.
Beautiful bookies
JET AMT tweeters don't go down very low, though ELAC says they can get them down to 2KHz, but usually they seem to only really work down to 3KHz. The JET tweeter in the newer ELAC Carina, which was redesigned by Andrew Jones to be factory built, does do a little better down to 2KHz, so there is still a little dip at crossover point, but much smoother.
The crossover to the Jet Tweeter is 2400 Hz. I believe the 'air motion transformer' style Tweeter does not do low frequences and they may be crossing it over to low, so you get a drop off notch.
THD harmonic distortion was missing, first time btw
thank you erin
Weird. I could have sworn I covered it. Maybe edited it out by accident. I’ll have the data on my site this afternoon so you can see it there.
Female voices are affected by crossover dips (i.e in the 2,5 - 4KHz region), they can end up receding right back in the 'sound stage'.
When you do your video on speaker placement in relation to the rear wall, can you please address placement in relation to SIDE walls? I’ve read a lot of conflicting info on whether or not this is as important as the rear wall. Thanks Erin!
It’s pronounced like J Giles, think Niles. Like the River, or the name. That was a great album too. I remember getting the cassette when it came out. Yes I’m old. 😁 ✌️
nice with that dip
Good review as always.
I am of the opinion speakers should be placed less than 39” or more than 7.2’. The no man’s land should be avoided unless you use subs with a highpass. Though ceiling height and other boundaries come into play of course… so YMMV.
Thanks Erin. Don't work yourself to death.
Great stuff as usual, Thankyou.🙂
Any idea if you are going to measure the Leak Sandwich 250? Have a feeling this is going to be something pretty good like the Linton.
Perfect 😎👌
As always, good job Erin.. I wasn't expecting an endorsement on this one.. Let us not forget that these are $3000 a pair.
Not sure why anyone would be willing to pay that much for a bookshelf speaker of this size.. I wasn't expecting that good of a review, and I really wasn't convinced of the value added for another $2000, basically 3 times the price of a $500 speaker, of which, you have demonstrated some good ones (just not the L52 obviously, and for good reasons). The only impressive aspect adding value, ime, to these Elacs was the ample additional SPL without compression over the full range, and maybe horizontal dispersion, for those who crave it. Question: Is this difference worth a 3x cost differential, Idk..
Caveat Emptor. Make sure you know what suits you, and strive for your best value per dollar. Avoid quick decisions and "love at first site" hypnosis.😂
I hear you. Overall performance on its own doesn’t warrant the price. But build quality and aesthetics add another layer to costs. Those things are more intangible wrt “value” than sound itself.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Understood. I didn't pick up pick up on that from the video, but maybe I just missed it. I probably should've double checked, but yeah, that's that's definitely another consideration in terms of what the price point should be .. thanks for the reply. Actually, that said, I personally think that Elac does a great job in that regard, especially even on their cheap bookshelf speakers!
@@ErinsAudioCorner If you are patient and watch online, open boxes deals from Crutchfield and Audio Advice are hard to beat. I saw these for under 2k right after Christmas. I think every piece of equipment I have is an open box from these 2 retailers.
These sound really similar to the older Martin Logan motion series shelves, with a similar folded ribbon tweeter. Glad Elac keeps making these great as the series continues to be made over time.
Speaking of Elac, I've never seen any measurements on Unity Audio Boulder MKIII DSP monitors.
Been waiting for this review for quite some time, thanks Erin!
I m about to buy these ones but only because they are on offer for 1.000 euro a pair. Not convinced they support a price of 2.5k. Would you say they sound better than the UniFi reference you tested some time ago?
at the sale asking price, yes jump at them
Thanks for this nice review! How would these pair with a Wiim Amp+Subwoofer? Where would you set the sub crossover? 80hz?
I heard a few models, maybe this one, at Florida show. It was impressive in those rooms. The Concentro S 503 was REALLY nice. .. notably better than this model ( at twice the price )
I really like the design of these.
ELAC America decided not to import the Concerto 503, so it is strange that they would appear at the FL show.
@@bilguana11 ...Concentro S 503... To be precise.
Maybe ask them again.. Details can change.
@@psyphonyxaudioYes, the Concentro S 503 is available in Germany, but not in the USA. They don't give reasons.
@bilguana11 - FLAX was the US premiere... maybe something changed?..
Doesn't really matter - to be honest.. My point was only that I heard them.. and they were great.
Doesn't bare any relevance to where they are sold or not and who can get them or not.
Mutually exclusive topics.
@@psyphonyxaudioWas that at the recent FLAX?
Check out the Carinas.
Like your subjective and objective reviews. I am commenting on this video because it was the first time I have seen a video where someone showed the distortion with a subwoofer and without. Now I know why my speakers sound different using crossover with a sub rather than setting them a full/large. It's not just that the sub plays low, but based on what you showed with this speaker review, it might just be effecting the speaker distortion as well. Does that imply that frequency response would also be different?
Hi Erin,
Thanks for another great review.
I do have a question though, in this and other review you often mention "listening at 80 to 85dB". You already tell the distance and have a nice table for converting loudness over distance in a room including some room gain, but my question is about weighting. Because 80-85dB A weighted is pretty loud, while for a C or even Z weighting, it wouldn't be that loud at all. Especially for modern pop/EDM the difference is usually more than 15dB between these. So what weighting are you assuming when making that comment?
A-weighting.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the fast response!
Odd that ELAC send you those for review, but then immediately released the 2.0 version of the speakers: ELAC Vela 2.0 // VBS403.2.
Yeah, but in their defense, they sent them to me a few months ago. I just had a lot of other stuff in you before that.
Yeah, but in their defense, they sent them to me a few months ago. I just had a lot of other stuff in queue before I got to test this.
You nailed the J Geils pronunciation. You are now an honorary Bostonian. Wicked Pissa!
Wicked smaht!
Lets go get some Dunkin!
Somebody get this man some ZU speakers
Will the frequency response look like the sounds of a zoo?
@@RennieAshwow that was really bad
Hey Erin, I have a question regarding value with this speaker. I saw these speakers priced at ~1150€ for a pair with heavy discount from a reputable retailer and thought they looked amazing. Now that i know their regular retail price, I'm thinking on jumping at the chance. Do you think there is a better value speaker at that price (considering i will use EQ and have a measuring mic)? Thanks as always for your extensive reviews on audio gear. They are always helpful.
It’s hard to say absolutely but that is a good price for a well performing and good looking speaker.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thank you! Erin, what about User SD500 vs. Vela under 2k?
Is it reasonable for speaker at this price point to only be able to reproduce base down to 50 hz?
@FFenty-of5xv
It's pretty much reasonable for ANY smallish 2-way Bookshelf/Standmount speaker at ANY price point to only play down to 50Hz and then roll-off fairly quickly below that! We are bound by the limitations of Physics.
We're just lucky that via physics and acoustics most of our listening rooms usually have boundaries behind and to the sides of our speakers that provide a free boost in SPL at lower frequencies, which we call the transfer function, or "room gain."
In general, the most common crossover frequency for the majority of consumer-level subwoofers is within the 80Hz to 60Hz region.
There are exceptions, of course, but with that common rule of thumb in mind, it makes sense that you'd want to crossover your main speakers in that same general region of 60Hz-80Hz.
15" and larger subwoofers might typically have lower recommended crossover frequencies (45Hz-55Hz), but depending on your main speakers, you still might want to cross them over in the 60Hz-80Hz region, or even higher if they have low inductance and can play cleanly up that high.
But typically, you don't want the center frequency of your crossover to your subwoofer(s) to be any higher than 100Hz, because that is the point at which frequencies become more localizable...i.e. when you can hear exactly where in the room the bass is coming from, instead of the illusion that all of the bass is emanating from your main speakers.
Anything below 50Hz is really the domain and job of a good subwoofer, or at least the use of 8"-10" drivers in the main speakers, if you want decent authority and SPL.
Around ~80Hz and below is where 99% of 6.5" (165mm) midwoofer drivers begin to struggle to produce those frequencies at significant SPL without the distortion increasing exponentially.
Just take a look at the Resonant Frequency specification ("Fs") in the T/S parameters of most 6.5" MIDWOOFERS that are meant to be used for the midrange as well in 2-way loudspeaker designs. Their Fs will most often be in the 65Hz to 45Hz region.
And if you take a look at the Frequency Response graphs as well as the compression measurement graphs that Erin provides with just about any bookshelf size loudspeaker, you'll see a common theme in that the frequency response begins to drop off rapidly below 50Hz at best, while the distortion begins to rise exponentially as well as the SPL increases.
This is because it takes exponentially more power and A LOT more Excursion or linear "Xmax" capability in order to produce frequencies below 80Hz with any real Authority.
For a comparative correlation, look at any electric bass guitar players' amplifier and most importantly their Speaker Cabinet. Most will have at least a 4x8 speaker cab (Four 8" bass drivers in a single cabinet), and 4x10 or even 2x12 or 4x12 isn't uncommon among bass guitar players.
That's because it really does take LARGER Drivers (and multiples of them) to produce those low bass notes with enough SPL while also keeping distortion low.
So, while the actual bass guitar player is using at least FOUR 8" woofers to properly play his bass guitar with decent output, you're trying to reproduce that same experience in your listening room with just a SINGLE 6.5" woofer, or sometimes even smaller midwoofers in your bookshelf speakers!
The only reason this can begin to work is because you are most likely listening in a much smaller room, so your speakers don't have to play nearly as loud in order to fill your room with sound.
But the smaller midwoofer drivers in bookshelf speakers are still going to struggle to properly reproduce those lower frequencies at decent SPLs and will take exponentially more power and excursion to do so.
Also, think about the size of bass drum/Kick Drum heads. While they generally range in diameter from 18"-26", the most common kick drum size is a 22" diameter drum.
Now imagine that 22" bass drum head as being the equivalent of the Cone Size of a Subwoofer that is producing the drum's sound.
So, again, we're asking small 6.5" midwoofer drivers in our tiny bookshelf speakers to actually try to accurately reproduce the impact and dynamics of a 22" bass drum head!
Something's Gotta Give! You NEED a subwoofer!
Man... there is nothing in the data that explains why this speaker sounded so airy and sparkly to me... maybe its that wide dispersion till ~10khz?
The dispersion on this speaker from 2 to 10 khz its quide wide, probably between the 5 speakers with the wider dispersion around that frequency range
Erin, do you not wonder why they didn't take care of that in the crossover? That really is a gross nonlinearity. 5 dB? Too much headroom lost (that's indeed why they didn't) Small rooms only and eq for this one imo.
Of course I wonder. I just don’t have any insight from the designer. It looks completely intentional.
Do all bookshelf speakers have resonances? I mean... This is almost 3000 USD and it still has one... Curious to know what's your take on this topic. Thanks for the review! 😊
Many of them do.
@@ErinsAudioCorner shouldn't a speaker that price be free of resonances? Or is it not reasonable you think?
@@1337sim1According to another reviewer many speakers are designed to resonate as part of the design.
@@raymoore8435 Huh?!? Why would you want a resonance in a speaker??!! Do you have a link? I'd be interested to learn more... Thanks!
Wharefedale aura vs Kef r meta which is better for music and movies ?
Battle of the Brands: MoFi, Wharfedale, and KEF Speaker Showdown
ruclips.net/video/BOOUp07Dk2I/видео.html
When i see a reviewer comparing a $3000 speaker to a $1000 speaker…that’s when you can I think read between the lines and see the 3k product is a poor value. At this price point it should dominate the R3 Meta.
I compared it to the L52 because I have both on hand and just finished up the review. I haven’t had the R3 Meta since last year.
But the comparisons were only drawn as references for those who recently saw my critiques of a speaker that did some things wrong. This isn’t a “shootout” style video.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thanks for clarifying it can get confusing for us at home.
@@seanb3303 I wonder how they compare to the Ascend Sierra 1-V2 at $1000, which Erin seemed to love, or the other Sierras up to $1700.
@@stephenjarzombek2903 probably not well. If you’re gonna charge 3k you better do something better.
Please check a Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G. Thanks for Your good job. Best regards.
Its not J Jills band. Its Giles as in while or pile.
The Carina's are actually better. The slightly smaller tighter 5.25 woofer matches better with the AMT.
I own the Velas and the Carinas. The Carinas are good, but the Velas are better.
@streamingundsoundbarssindm2998 maybe standalone. I found them lacking in upper mids...the Carina's paired with subs is a better route.....with no subs in the mix I could see the Vela being better...I like that sizzling upper mids pop music
So this or R3 meta? I think R3 is still much superior and costs less
For me, R3 Meta. Though, I do like the look of these more and these do have about 10-20 deg wider radiation with more full bass (R3M has extended bass shelf, best served near a wall). Different in their own rights.
Thank you so much for all these testing🫰!
After seeing all your videos, I won’t buy any speakers unless they were throughly tested.
J Geils Band, Geils is pronounced like street fighter character "Guile"
SONIC BOOM!
It's J. Geils, not Giles
Erin, can you show the speakers, graphs etc while you are speaking about the speakers. We love your face, but then we would like to see the actual speakers you are speaking about, all physical aspects of it.
Any chance of seeing a review for Mission 770 speakers?
I would be happy to, but it would probably increase my chances if folks such as yourself would email and ask them to send them for review because you are wanting to buy a pair, but want to see a review first.
They pronounced it like j gals back when it was on MTV originally.
That is now the fourth way of pronouncing it that someone has replied back with. No offense, but you guys aren’t helping me at all! 😂😂😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner I just remember it well since it was at the right age for me to notice the girls wearing lingerie in the video😂
@udioCorner The name rhymes with MILES or WHILES
The *g* sound is the same as the word GUY
Google the pronunciation.
Just not sure I see the "value" in these for that amount of money. Elac seems to make too many models that are fairly similar, and very confusing what is what overall. I mean a good brand for sure, but just not sure what models are what....
These or the ubr62?
Do you say J Geils wrong, or do I?
Yes.
@@ErinsAudioCorner haha!
Lack of attack is a good way to describe how I feel about that style pf tweeter. They sound okay, but it's not for me.
I heard these on playing on demo in shop , they had a lot missing for the price .
Might had been the room , but I've heard much better older speaker at £300 monitor audio gold range or even ZU DWX which my good friend owns and are stand out speakers for £1200 in the UK plus postage and £1300 depending on colour USA .
"lightning fast response..." I don't think the driver moves at 186,000 miles per second. "Marketing lingo"? You are too kind... to me, it is marketing bull💩. (For the algorithm... Ok?)
⚡️
Thats a stupid price
Agree too expensive for a bookshelf with issues.
@user-mz6lt2pr9s i didn't pay that much for my 7.2 system lmao
These seem to be a little over priced
Yes, 1839 usd in EU incl. Taxes
In the US yes, in the EU no.
Not so for the sound quality.
@@bilguana11 well sir I disagree just 35 years of experience tells me otherwise
@@burton7023I have more experience than you and am an AES and SMPTE life member.