Miquella is Marika's last born with Malenia, the twin. Messmer will be the secret first-born, shrouded in the land of shadows, to cover the blasphemous story on how to Marika obtained the golden power
That would actually make a lot of sense. Especially with the line "the seduction" it could be that Marika seduced someone to get her power and then banished that child. Your theory makes a lot of sense and is what I'm gonna agree with until we see the DLC. But I do think you're right!
Marika appears to be making her rune in the moment she's holding up the strings of gold. It's folding Into the same shape she's locked in at the end of the game.
In that first scene, Marika was stepping into the Erdtree. The opening looks the same. The Erdtree has a lining of gold around it. The Ertree roots always have bodies embedded in them. The Erdtree is made up of bodies, possibly from the war in the land of shadows. The bodies are concealed with Marika's gold.
I don't see that, that's the shadow tree not the erdtree. This is the moment marika becomes a god. The erdtree isn't even a thing at this point. You can clearly see two tree trunks with bodies inside which aligns with the tree that's in the land of shadow.
@@DougRobertson yes it does, what marika did in the land of shadow birthed the erdtree and made her a god. That first shit is clearly the shadow tree and not the erdtree. Everything started in the land of shadow and it all started with what marika did there. That first shot is a glimpse of what she did to start it all.
"A war unseen" may also refer to the concealing veil that is seemingly obscuring the Land of Shadow. When the camera pans up the the Shadow of the Erdtree towering over the burning city, it appears as if the veil may already be in place. It could just be rays of light from some source(maybe the "real" Erdtree we are more familiar with), but if it is there, this could literally mean that the entire war would have occurred completely unseen to those in the Lands Between. Also unrelated but I thought it was really cool that the image of St. Trina falling reeeally resembles a nascent butterfly.
@@kitetales I think you could be right! We don't know much about that serpent and for all we know he could have been created from the crucible or been a part of it
I think the description of the devourer's scepter may be important to the DLC. It says that Praetor Rykard saw a glimpse of the future (a serpent consuming the world) right before his death. I'm leaning more toward this being a metaphor for blasphemy taking over the world, but that's not what's important here. It's messmer. He and Rykard seem to share a lot of traits (fire, snakes, etc.), but we know he came before him. The thing that makes me believe that the serpent (as a metaphor or the real snake) may play a part in the DLC is the appearance of the weapon and the tree in the images. We see a black tree (Ig) strangling another tree. What do you think?
When I heard both Gold and Shadow were born, that gave me an idea (that's probably incorrect and a long shot): what if Messmer (Shadow) and Godwyn the (Gold)en were twins? I always figured Godwyn was Marika's firstborn. Maybe her "affair" was with Radagon (or some other snake god or sm) while she was already/recently married to Godfrey. There's a term called "heteropaternal superfecundation" where twins are born from two different fathers. I'm not sure how this theory would work with the timeline tho. Maybe the reason Miquella is in the realm of shadow is to use Messmer to somehow bring back Godwyn. The eclipse mentioned in the base game could be a reference to light (or gold) and shadow coming together.
Well first of all, Marika would have thrown a hell of a party to achieve "heteropaternal superfecundation". And my expectation is, that if Miquella is about to use Messmer, it would be rather to deliver Godwyn true death and burn that soulless body.
Miquella was already born when Marika and Radagon conjoined. I believe Messmer to be her first born, even before Godfrey. Messmer also looks very different from all of Marika’s other children. He has the cold, dead face of a Godskin apostle. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not Marika’s biological child and that he was in what looks to be a Godskin Swaddling Cloth. It looks like she stole the golden grace out of the swaddling cloth, which is why Messmer has no honor or grace. I think this is where the Gloam Eyed Queen comes in. I think that Marika betrayed her kind and stole the ability to grant death by forming the original Erdtree. The purple skies have a dusk/gloamish tinge to them, which matches Melina’s eye during the Lord of Frenzy ending, along with the gem that the Godskin’s wear. I think that Melina is actually the daughter of the Gloam Eyed Queen. There has to be a connection with the Gloam Eyed Queen/Melina and St. Trina/Miquella, due to the similarities of color in them. This is just where I’m at after watching the trailer this morning. Beyond excited for the DLC.
Marika and Radagon are the same person. And even tho, the game tells us that Miquella and Malenia were born from the union between them, and later on we find out that they were born from a single god (Radagon being Marika). I don't believe that much that we will get more information about the global eyes queen. There are mysteries in these games that are never answered, and I believe that that one will be the one not answered in this one. Maybe Melina won't even play a role in this DLC
It's pretty obvious that Marika did something heinous / Betrayel at the beginning of the trailer. But it's even more reinforced when looking at Marika's hands. Before even reaching in to this ''sack'' her hands are bloody. When someone has: ''Blood on their hands'' It's often a way to say that someone is guilty of something like murder etc. This truly is a way to mark Marika as a usurper that is guilty of her actions and no one else.
I can already hear you and Jack talking about this XD Kite - Classic Marika, seducing and betraying to gain power. She's such a terrible person. Jack - No no no, you've got it all backwards. MARIKA was seduced and betrayed! She's the victim here! I can't wait to see your next stream.
the door made of bodys looks like rykard's boss room, and the thing marika grabs the thing out of looks like the godskin swaddling cloth imo, seems she was a man to start with to me
I just checked and i dont see any similarities, neither the outline of the doorways themselves align nor the general style of how its presented. The "goreway" also stretches into the sky, Rykards door ends abruptly.
Noting the last part of your comment. I was a bit puzzled by the opening figure being Marika, because the character's body looks, to me, as being clearly male. I don't find it convincing to use the hair and shoulder wrapping to identify Marika, although the snake bracelet does seem to be unique to Marika so far.
Miquella is feared for his humble indoctrination. Why he sacrificed his alter-ego like most if not all demigods have, seems to be the mystery. Also listen to the Godskin's theme song. It was my favorite until today but now Messmer's theme just sounds like the same notes in a different but similar order. There may be something that I don't know I'm tired lol.
20:45 the scene with all the Tarnished (Im guessing theyre all Tarnished) gathered in front of Miquella's rune, the guy wearing the big hat with his head down was the one doing the flying kicks in the gameplay trailer. Maybe he's gonna be the one who introduces us to the different martial arts techniques, hehe~ But honestly, now THAT is what I'm most looking forward to. If martial arts are going to be a "weapon" category maybe each weapon will be an individual martial art - kung fu, more flowing tai chi inspired stuff, maybe even stuff like grappling or kickboxing, that would be really cool
If my theory regarding the greattree, its burning by the fell god and smoldering form as the crucible is right, this will become very interesting. Radagon will be a bigger part in this than people expect him to be
I agree. I think the affair and betrayal might be literal: Radagon and Marika had an affair, betraying Godfrey (and the tarnished) along with the age of the crucible.
@@ericjensen7580No, that's not at all what I meant, I don't even think that Godfrey will have any role in this dlc. This is before his time. Radagon is most likely the avatar of the crucible, a curse laid on Marika for stepping through the gore portal into the lands between. Or Radagon is his own person but still with the crucible as his origin. Either way, Radagon will have his origin revealed and his connection to Marika will be explained
@@lexmortis5722 oh, this is interesting. Radagon being the original persona, and Marika being the curse would be so cool and would make a lot of sense. From the information I gathered from the game, it is kind of implied that Marika was part of the whole plot against the Golden Order and the Greater Will. If she was a curse put on Radagon for his sins against the crucible then it would make sense why Marika was part of that plot to bring that reign down. Maybe I'm overthinking it, and reaching too much, and maybe you don't refer to any of this at all. But in my head it made total sense 😅
Brilliant analysis of the trailer, Kite!!! I’m with you with the piles and piles of corpses and the feeling that it could be crucible related in the most literal sense! 🤣😂 I, too, truly hope Miquella is “good”, but sooooo many people are ready for him to be the most wicked evil and I’m just not here for that 🤣😂💜💜💜💜💜
I've heard it mentioned before that presumably the Lands of Shadow used to be located next to the Lands Between, but were eventually hidden or physically removed. The idea that Gold and Shadow arose might simply refer to the splitting of those realms as a result of Marika's actions. The atrocities that she committed cloaked in Shadow so that the Golden Order could take shape. It could also be a theme expressed in multiple ways throughout the game, like maybe Miquella and St. Trina being different sides of the same person, or it might also refer to Marika and Messmer respectively, since it seems like the latter was locked away for his actions. It's still an open question in my mind why exactly he didn't go with Marika, since he appeared loyal to her. One thought I like is that perhaps he acted without orders on Marika's behalf, or was simply too barbaric in carrying out the war, and was banished as a result. Bit of a stretch but perhaps this plays into why she eventually becomes disillusioned with the Golden Order and chooses to destroy the Elden Ring. The alternative being that Marika knowingly used him as an instrument of ruthlessness before abandoning him, which would also align with what we know about her tendency to scheme and deceive. Marika's motivations are very vague to me at this point, but it's fun to speculate.
The golden threads Marika holds up in the beginning made me think of the way she's crucified/hung up in the base game, and it made me think of the shape of her rune (or at least what I thiiiink the shape of her rune is supposed to be?), and in the shot later in the trailer, where the camera pans upwards from the city aflame to the tree, the crucified Marika shape is seen again, in gold. This made me think that it's symbolic of Marika "watching over" Messmer and his actions in the Land of Shadow, or somehow sanctioning what he's doing, that she very much is part of his plan or that he's doing it on her behalf? Also the new sites of grace, are what I assume to be in the shape of Miquellas rune? if so, his rune's outer arc very much resembles (to me at least) the shape of the crescent moon 🌙 - or, more fitting for what we learn of him in the base game lore - a crescent sun, which could be a tie in to his plans to eclipse the sun? Furthermore, I'm inclined to side with those who ponder if maybe Messmer is Godwyns twin - and they were the Gold and Shadow the voice in the trailer references. Godwyn is after all said to be Marikas firstborn, and it's incredibly unclear if his father is actually Godfrey, so he and Messmer then may be the result of Marikas "affair" the trailer mentions, if the affair is a literal reference to a sexual affair. And since Messmer is heavily linked to snakes, it also made me think of how Godwyn (at least after he "dies", though maybe also before that?) has a fishtail - not exactly a snake but definitely scaley - could be another hint to a possible connection between the two, and whoever their non-Marika parent then would be?
Mesmer seem to be one of or not the oldest child of Marika. But despite his longevity through the ages. He still looks so very young. I assume this has to do with his connections to snakes and dragons. Because if you look at someone like Godrick, he is literally one of the ''youngest'' in the family tree. But he looks so old, which makes me thing either Godricks blood is super dialuted or just that Mesmer has some crazy genetics.
Notice how similar the godskins fire magic seems to be as messmers, especially when they throw the black fire balls at you by first holding it like messmer then throwing it. I think there bLack flame was a mockery version of messmers which was invented by the glome eyed queen when she suffered by his flame…
I’m pretty sure the golden thread is either the Elden Ring itself or something that has to do with it because we’ve seen this gold thread in the cutscene where Marika strikes the Elden Ring with her hammer trying to break it and then a second later, we see Radagon striking it again, trying to repair it.
15:45 using his skin as a mockery to also hunt the omens would ALSO be in line with the Omen killers and how they wear horned masks of the nightmares omens see to mock them. Which begs the question… will we see this demon that haunts the omens dreams in this dlc
yeah when she’s pulling that string the elden beast OST starts, when that scene fades to black we get a different song. edit: i want to add the ancient civ monuments show engravings of something. we see boats arrive, these people off the boats plant trees, and then it shows a ritual with these fruits. I think it’s fair to say the numens or marikas people show up, show them how to do something, and then betray them after in these rituals. obviously there’s some symbolism in the murals that won’t be 1:1 but i think that is the seduction and betrayal by marika, she brought something pretended to be something else until she could usurp the elden ring.
There is a symbol on the chest of one of the soldiers at 9:50 that reminds me of the symbol on the Gilded Greatshield, carried by Godrick Knights. And on the item description it says " The red tinge in the gold coat mirrors the primordial matter that became the Erdtree. The color of homeward yearning. " So.. primordial matter.. is like.. congealed blood melted flesh slush? ... Tubby custard. I'm dying. I need this DLC now.
It's amazing, every time i think i might be on the verge of getting a grip on what the Elden Ring story might be, something new appears and throws a wrench in it. Perhaps the Crucible Knights took part in this unholy war and that is why they were eventually discarded. They were the constant reminder of a horrific war. Of what had to happen for the Erdtree to be born.
Marikas line"Thou are yet to become me." Said towards radagon makes me still question Marikas ability to just call him away from renala. It could be a stretch, but what if mesmer was radagons bastard. This could have been the secret affair that Marika would hold over him after locating his whereabouts. Maybe she's kept mesmer as blackmail or vise versa in exchange for the kids and renalas life. Perhaps he worked alone or somehow aided ronni in order to take marika down from the inside and form a new contract with the elden beast. If radagon is 100% from the lands between thou and not of Newman decent then theory falls apart. the red hair is already seen as rare amongst the siblings so I couldn't help with running with that train of thought. Been rewatching lore videos since I'm gonna be playing for the first time with the dlc installment. Can't wait to see everyone's erdtree experience 🎉🎉🎉
Theres been so many good theories coming out as of late, I found one that spoke about the pregnant woman in the portrait with the old man. They suggested that this could be a bed companion, that perhaps marika was the bed companion or born of one.✨️ And then I found a channel that suggests miquella could be a fairy/channgling based off of mythology✨️ this will truly be a game to lose yourself in lore for years to come. I wonder if we'll get another dlc down the road that focuses on end content depending on the ending you choose. Or if they could make ranni or dusk cannon for the next game. It's too intriguing to speculate what the next objective would be if ranni began her new order or if godwin could be brought back with the help of his rune. The twist would be godwin developing a dual personality or a different second state that is the God of destined death that we defeat. 🤓🧐🧐🧐 now I'm just needing but you guys get me!!
Another lore video pointed out that the creature at 16:28 is posed in a way that resembles overies, and the beginning of the trailer looks very similar to the female nether region that she's pulling the golden strings out of. Im not sure what this is implying, but i feel like birth will play a part in the story telling in the dlc or it could be blood born easter eggs. Im not sure, what do you guys think?
Might be a reach, but could "a war unseen" also refer to a war whose destructiveness and brutality had not been encountered before. A sort of " a war to end all wars".
you said it yourself, they skinned the horned lions and made puppets out of them, they were never saints. Messmer which has snakes coming out of his chest might be pro crucible and the soldier having fitting armor fits.
The corpses reminded me of the ones you can see in the Ainsel river/Uhl Palace Ruins. They’re also skinned/gory and piled up. Could be that Marika seducing or even was seduced by someone/something and betrayed her people.
Ainsel River was used as a corpse disposal and the ants utilize corpses. The eternal cities, after their banishment underground, were not allowed to resurface and thus had to resort to other burial measures. The greatwaterfall basin was most likely their only option to maybe partake in Erdtree burial, but its understandable why they would rather choose to end their bodies peril after their souls ventured on with the ants acidity and relation to "scarlet rot"
@@lexmortis5722 I remember that theory. But seeing how these bodies are piled up and gored, it may be the case that the Lands Between were remade. Those bodies were buried along with the Uhl ruins and the shadow lands sundered, as the new age under Marika began. The eternal cities banished later and they just used the ants that were already feeding on these corpses.
I almost think the corpses that Marika is stepping on in the beginning of the trailer might be due to the Godskin Apostles. I wonder if this takes place when the Gloam Eyed Queen was present.
Was wondering if "Tyranny of Messmer Flame" is that his flame is very special and something about it makes it more dominating so tyrannical because it is a whole extra level of potency
I think the “threads” she’s pulling out look like long strands of golden hair. There is also something on the fabric that kinda looks like buttonholes.
No wait. Not buttonholes. It lookes like something was stapled shut and then the staples were removed again and now Marika is reaching inside. Could it be Miquella's cocoon? Is she stealing hair from Miquella to create the Golden Order Erdtree.. or to open a portal of some kind.. If it is not a cocoon it could be a pregnant belly and the reason the skin is so lose is because it held twins but only one of them is left in there now. Maybe the mother was killed and only one of the twins she was carrying survived. I am going crazy.
OMG runes are gestated, right? I think there was something in Fia's questline about that. I love her questline. I went with the Duskborn ending for my first playthrough. Currently working on my second one in NG+.
From what I understand, This trailer highlights the true history of Marika's ascension to Godhood, plucking the Golden strands of the Elden Ring from it's previous host (most likely the Gloam Eyed Queen - the leader of the Godskin Apostles - all those corpses are flayed/skinless, the sky is also the color - Gloam). Messmer seems to be the one that does all the Dirty work necessary for Marika's ascension, impaling & burning the forces of the Crucible (the Omen Lion Dancers & the Crucible Knights) this makes Messmer much older than any of Marika's other children, closer in age to Godfrey since they're both the champions of Marika's ascension. While Miquella is the youngest - not only because of his eternal youth, but also being born of Marika's 2nd marriage to Radagon (herself). The NPCs are probably Miquella's "champions" to allow for his ascension to Godhood, since he is still searching for a true cure to his twin(Malenia)'s Scarlet Rot. He's freed himself of his Empyrean flesh by dying to Mogh's corruption. So for him to follow in his mother's footsteps he has come to the Shadow Realm to become a God himself and create that True Cure. I believe that Shadow Tree is actually the Crucible itself - the Primordial Form of the Erdtree, and that veil we see is the Illusion of the Erdtree that Marika created for the Lands Between to see.
To me, I think that the "sack" resembles a belly, and Miyazaki is known to incorporate themes of birth. From the belly, it looks like the godskins, and think that we just witnessed Marika steal the fetus of mezzmer from the belly of the globe eyed queen. Mezzmer does seem to resemble the thin godskins, so maybe Marika kidnapped his fetus to adopt him, and wrapped him in the golden threads of grace
My speculation is that the pregnant woman in the painting in the previous trailer is actually Marika before becoming a god. She stands next to an old man (presumably the one she seduced and the father of her child Messmer) who bears a symbol very similar to the one associated to the Fell God of the flame giants. We can also see he was later impaled with gold which makes me think of a collaboration between Marika and Messmer to get rid of him. Messmer might be an overzealous vassal of Marika in the Lands of Shadow, cast away because of his bloodlust.
The more I watch this trailer, the more I think the city being purged by fire is Leyndell. Just because of all the ash we see the first time we visit the royal capital.
i don’t think so, if we look closely at the outer ramparts, they have the same carvings of the propylea of the western castle in the gameplay trailer that is also melting away,
I love how graceful and feminine she is walking up the corpses that looked skinned. I feel like it isn't her doing and more the golden order is a response to the brutality that was before, but I do think people maybe taking "affair" too literal
The Fire Snakes are VERY reminiscent of the Mt Gelmir Hexes, specifically Rykards Rancor >_> I do wonder if there is any relationship and if so what the implications are. I can't believe you released this 3 weeks ago when this first dropped and already immediately had so many interesting insights 😂 Loremonger! Marika being petty is so true though 😂 with George R R Martin being involved viewing Marika as a super smart Cersie kinda makes complete sense lol I am glad K8 prompted our paths to cross, brilliant video! I'll have to pop into a live some time and say hello! 😁
Oh hi you!! Thanks so much, I am so happy K8 shared your video with me because I love the way you view the game’s lore and can’t wait to see your thoughts about the DLC! ❤️
@kitetales that's such a generous compliment ♡ likewise! Those two videos I've made have thoroughly burned me out for now lol I dont know how y'all do it.. Are you going to stream the DLC playthrough? Or devour it in private? 😁
Oh trust me the burn out is real; I technically haven’t made a proper video in quite a bit because it’s a really exhausting and time-consuming process. I feel you on that! As for the DLC, I’m so happy I’ll be playing with Kate as she streams because I’ve heard it’s incredibly difficult and I’m not sure I could get through it alone 😆 Are you streaming it??
@kitetales Thats so fair. I have scripts written but the thought of collecting all the videos and editing... eugh. Definitely a 10-15min vid next time 😅 Jack is a mimic (the absolute darling) is helping me out with advice about building a clip archive which is super smart lol I'm building it rn Oh good idea! K8 would be a certified gem to stream with, full of good ideas too. I am so torn.. I've never streamed before so, I think I'll try it this Wednesday or something and that'll be the decider hahaha I am also low key scared of someone in chat dropping a heart shattering spoiler 😂
@@ScumMageInfa Oh the spoiler chat is a good concern for sure; hopefully your audience would be good to observe requests not to post spoilers but there is always the risk of a wild spirit floating about!
The knight behind the Roman armor NPC, doesn't that look a bit like Vyke? Maybe they put a cloak around him so we can't see his iconic fingerprint armor, which would give it all away at once of course.
Atleast how i see corpse tree is mid point between shadow world of erdree and a world where we currently are in. So it shows how she creates new world from the shadow world
You could take unseen that way, but I was wondering if it meant it wasn't a war but more like a red wedding sort of ambush and butchering that wasn't really a glorious fight or battle just a butchering ambush, thus not heroic material for songs and poems
What if ... The gash in the shadow tree is from Granssax's bolt? The Shadow Tree is just under/inverted from the Erdtree? "Birth of Gold & Shadow" seems like alluding to this duality of the trees mirroring duality of Lands Between and Lands of Shadow, Gold & Light
It looks like whoever is holding the Strands is becoming a God but I would swear its a male figure. I can't remeber for sure but didn't a description say " Radagon is Marika" or something like that, hinting that Radagon was the original? Also didn't he have golden hair till he was cursed with red hair? Would nake sense for this scene. Idk how to make it fit with Marikas snake bangle or Numen background but was just a thought I had while watching this video:)
Maybe the bloomeyed queen was marikas twin sister. True imperian queen that was pregnant but Marika betrayed her and stole her son’s hair strands to fool the fingers. Maybe marikas true hair is red not blond and took the image of the bloomeyed queen and she is cursed that’s why her twins can never be perfect. Idk 🤷🏽
Not sure I agree on Rannie being the only "nice" demigod 😅 she has such cool logic, no deed is off the table if it is a means to her ends. 🤣 at least the "mean" demigods are up front about how savage they are 😂
I mean Ranni is also not very good, she killed Godwyn and Radahn for her own gain. I think only Radahn hasn't explicitly done anything bad that we know of at least. Btw "Ranni" literally means Queen in Marathi and Hindi so im pretty sure her ending is the canon ending
The 'reversed biblical tale' sounds wild, with Eve/Marika seducing the serpent. Awesome theory. I almost wish that turns out to be the case due to how brilliant the idea is. So, we know that Miquella cares for and is fond of the meek and downtrodden, which fits the description of Crucible beings. So I wonder if Miquella really is good, and so comes back to the Land of Shadow (like Jesus returning) to set things right and atone for the sins of his kin -- i.e., his mother's betrayal of something (the snake?) and his brother's apparent genocide/oppression of the beings of the Crucible. Like a reverse Jesus? Maybe too much of a stretch there :D
What if in order to summon/have audience with an Outer God, you need massive amount of "fuel" aka sacrifices? Game already has text with Ancestor Beast that states that through death, one gains power. Deathbirds, Ancestor Beasts, all operate on this Principle. And Marika was able to open this "dimensional gateway" to Greater Will and receive grace and godhood only by powering the ritual with thousands of dead, all killed in her War. Perhaps killed entirely to fuel this ritual and her ascension. Dead bodies have energy to animate those wicker men giants, perhaps their purpose is also to harvest and gather these bodies in one place to power Marika's ritual? Perhaps Crucible was Marika's creation instead of being naturally occuring. She is divine smith/alchemist, so she mixed all life into one goop to power up her ascension and communion with GW. And her Golden Age of Bounty was only made possible by her ritual, massive power reserve which however was exhausted in time. So they started burying people into roots to prolong it? Massive wars do fertilize the soil. Maybe Marika wanted her Erdtree to have fertile ground to grow in.
I think, Messmer is the twin of Godwyn. Marika always gets Twins. Miquellas twin in Malenia. I think she just left Messmer behind, while taking Godwyn with her. Thats why the knifes killed him, because Godwyn and Marika dont belong in the Lands between.
Something doesn't make sense, when was Mesmir born? Because he was in charge of war immediately after the event that presumably created a golden order. Either Marika already had kids with Radagon or Mesmir could be Marikas' brother instead
Long time lore theory consumer, first-time lore theory contributor, responding to the call for unhinged, shizo, wacky Shadow of the Erdtree theories. I've decided to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Here be swaddling cloths, a Marika Gloam Eyed Queen affair, Rune reincarnation and more. And with it all, a new-found appreciation and respect for the great lore channels that have inspired me to put this together. Your time is valuable so I've added a trailer reaction and just a small introspective on what these games mean to me. Enjoy! ruclips.net/video/AVGs8J-7z2M/видео.html
....what if mesmer is the twin of godwyn....gold and shadow?...and miquella had an obsession with restoring godwyn using the eclipse, so perhaps that has something to do with his envolvemnt in the land of shadow and mesmer
11:49 if you ask me, that has to be godfrey/hoarah loux, it looks exactly the same as in the opening cutscene when the narrator says: „Hoarah Loux, chieftain of the badlands“. The „badlands“ areprobably in the land of shadows and the war against messmer is how godfrey originally died
Same red gold as the Regalia of Eochaid too. Heck Elemer wears a similar cloak to Godfrey, the armor is covered with sperent women and beasts, and his shield is red-gold depicting a knight in red gold armor fighting Skeletons.
Miquella is Marika. the original Marika was betrayed and she was repackaged for the masses in the form of a messianic figure. The Marika we see is one of many Marika's created for each iteration of civilisation. The original Marika led an insurgency which ultimately failed. It was Marika's discovery which becomes the secret lore, i.e the discovery of Greater Will, in our lingo free will- meaning land without any notion of God. Miquella comes to learn this just as Marika once did. What we witness isn't the past but the future. Miquella recreating the original sin.
I think maybe we are seeing the creation of life in this land. Maybe those bodies aren’t mangled, maybe they are forming. Maybe people are forming. It’s like a uterine-wall type beat…life is forming into bodies and then they get there souls and they go live a life….? Just sayin.
I think they're cousins/ step siblings and eventually lovers. Saint Trina/ Miquella is Messmer's consort. Miquella was plucked from a womb, and so was Messmer (by Marika). The thing Marika* grabbed was an embryo that she cast into the shadow of the erdtree. As an embryo, he has a closer connection to the crucible. All of the gods seem to have an alter-ego. It seems these alter ego's can live in the shadow of the erdtree. Our choice will be to either support Miquella or Messmer as they have their falling out. One will remove the shadow, and the other will make it last forever.
Oooooh that's a good one; yes! There is a line on the website about Miquella awaiting his Lord; I can totally see Messmer as said Lord and Miquella the intended consort! Arranged by whom though?!
@kitetales Given the connection to G.R.R. Martin, I think it's likely. I'd say their connection is dreams/ alternate realities aswell as rejection of the erdtree, and their kinship is the secret tragedy. Both of them are basically dead in the erdtree's realm. They are souls without a body that found kinship, in the shadow of the erdtree. What I wonder is, what happens when you remove the shadow? There are so many gods with split personalities. Do they all become one? Does Rani enter her body? Would Marika and Radagon become one, if they were still alive? (I think they may have split when they formed the shadow) etc... most important of all, what happens to Miquella and Messmer? I don't think either would survive removing the shadow. Also, you're completely missing Yonic imagery (nsfw). That's what convinced me they're both still born. One's in a female pelvic, and the other is pulled out from "yonic imagery".
@kitetales WAIT MARIKA CAME FROM THE CRUCIBLE AS NON-BINARY, SHE SPLIT WHEN SHE CREATED THE SHADOW OF THE ERDTREE They're androgynous in the trailer on purpose (they also have strawberry blond hair). It's a prequel! The erd tree we see is female, and the shadow is male. The male erd tree lives in the shadow of the female erdtree. I think we're getting into reproduction, identity, sexuality, race, culture, and dichotomies.
In the scene with Marika holding the golden threads, her hair has tinges of red at the tips, very much like Radagon’s boss fight opening scene. If this is the moment she becomes a god, it makes sense to me Radagon emerges/merges? I don’t know what this implies, but her hair looks so red in that scene and I don’t think it’s an accident or just the blood in background reflecting.
Игры
Miquella is Marika's last born with Malenia, the twin. Messmer will be the secret first-born, shrouded in the land of shadows, to cover the blasphemous story on how to Marika obtained the golden power
No malenia’s the last born. She calls miquella oni Chan in the Japanese text which makes Miquella older.
Given the GRRM themes, I thought for a second you were saying Miquella is the last child Marika had with Malenia.
Then when did all marikas dead children in the walking mausoleums? Born before them?
Yeah I sort of feel like messmer is older in fact I would say that is canon considering the presumed timeline of this dlc
That would actually make a lot of sense. Especially with the line "the seduction" it could be that Marika seduced someone to get her power and then banished that child. Your theory makes a lot of sense and is what I'm gonna agree with until we see the DLC. But I do think you're right!
Marika appears to be making her rune in the moment she's holding up the strings of gold. It's folding Into the same shape she's locked in at the end of the game.
she's in a crucifixion pose at the end of the game, she isn't holding her arms up like this
@@joesaiditstrue she has to create the rune first before she can crucify herself 🤣
In that first scene, Marika was stepping into the Erdtree. The opening looks the same. The Erdtree has a lining of gold around it. The Ertree roots always have bodies embedded in them. The Erdtree is made up of bodies, possibly from the war in the land of shadows. The bodies are concealed with Marika's gold.
Oooo I like that, the illusion version versus the real horror show of bodies
This was also my thought! Kinda sorta also reinforces the thematic parallels of the Erdtree to the World Tree in Berserk 🤔
I don't see that, that's the shadow tree not the erdtree. This is the moment marika becomes a god. The erdtree isn't even a thing at this point. You can clearly see two tree trunks with bodies inside which aligns with the tree that's in the land of shadow.
@@allanwhittle4603 Marika becoming a god doesn't predate the Erdtree
@@DougRobertson yes it does, what marika did in the land of shadow birthed the erdtree and made her a god. That first shit is clearly the shadow tree and not the erdtree. Everything started in the land of shadow and it all started with what marika did there. That first shot is a glimpse of what she did to start it all.
I never noticed Marika’s bangle is that of a snake with 2 heads one on each side.
big GEQ energy
Came here to say this! Glad im not crazy.
"A war unseen" may also refer to the concealing veil that is seemingly obscuring the Land of Shadow. When the camera pans up the the Shadow of the Erdtree towering over the burning city, it appears as if the veil may already be in place. It could just be rays of light from some source(maybe the "real" Erdtree we are more familiar with), but if it is there, this could literally mean that the entire war would have occurred completely unseen to those in the Lands Between. Also unrelated but I thought it was really cool that the image of St. Trina falling reeeally resembles a nascent butterfly.
I wonder if Marika had a kid with the Serpent that Rykards bonded to and thats part of the whole blasphemy thing
That's what I'm thinking!! Someone pointed out that the arch of bodies looks like Rykard's boss door
@@kitetales I think you could be right! We don't know much about that serpent and for all we know he could have been created from the crucible or been a part of it
I think the description of the devourer's scepter may be important to the DLC. It says that Praetor Rykard saw a glimpse of the future (a serpent consuming the world) right before his death. I'm leaning more toward this being a metaphor for blasphemy taking over the world, but that's not what's important here. It's messmer. He and Rykard seem to share a lot of traits (fire, snakes, etc.), but we know he came before him. The thing that makes me believe that the serpent (as a metaphor or the real snake) may play a part in the DLC is the appearance of the weapon and the tree in the images. We see a black tree (Ig) strangling another tree. What do you think?
When I heard both Gold and Shadow were born, that gave me an idea (that's probably incorrect and a long shot): what if Messmer (Shadow) and Godwyn the (Gold)en were twins? I always figured Godwyn was Marika's firstborn. Maybe her "affair" was with Radagon (or some other snake god or sm) while she was already/recently married to Godfrey. There's a term called "heteropaternal superfecundation" where twins are born from two different fathers. I'm not sure how this theory would work with the timeline tho.
Maybe the reason Miquella is in the realm of shadow is to use Messmer to somehow bring back Godwyn. The eclipse mentioned in the base game could be a reference to light (or gold) and shadow coming together.
Well first of all, Marika would have thrown a hell of a party to achieve "heteropaternal superfecundation".
And my expectation is, that if Miquella is about to use Messmer, it would be rather to deliver Godwyn true death and burn that soulless body.
Miquella was already born when Marika and Radagon conjoined. I believe Messmer to be her first born, even before Godfrey.
Messmer also looks very different from all of Marika’s other children. He has the cold, dead face of a Godskin apostle. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not Marika’s biological child and that he was in what looks to be a Godskin Swaddling Cloth. It looks like she stole the golden grace out of the swaddling cloth, which is why Messmer has no honor or grace.
I think this is where the Gloam Eyed Queen comes in. I think that Marika betrayed her kind and stole the ability to grant death by forming the original Erdtree. The purple skies have a dusk/gloamish tinge to them, which matches Melina’s eye during the Lord of Frenzy ending, along with the gem that the Godskin’s wear.
I think that Melina is actually the daughter of the Gloam Eyed Queen. There has to be a connection with the Gloam Eyed Queen/Melina and St. Trina/Miquella, due to the similarities of color in them.
This is just where I’m at after watching the trailer this morning. Beyond excited for the DLC.
Love this theory
Godwyn *
Marika and Radagon are the same person. And even tho, the game tells us that Miquella and Malenia were born from the union between them, and later on we find out that they were born from a single god (Radagon being Marika).
I don't believe that much that we will get more information about the global eyes queen. There are mysteries in these games that are never answered, and I believe that that one will be the one not answered in this one. Maybe Melina won't even play a role in this DLC
It's pretty obvious that Marika did something heinous / Betrayel at the beginning of the trailer.
But it's even more reinforced when looking at Marika's hands.
Before even reaching in to this ''sack'' her hands are bloody.
When someone has: ''Blood on their hands''
It's often a way to say that someone is guilty of something like murder etc.
This truly is a way to mark Marika as a usurper that is guilty of her actions and no one else.
I can already hear you and Jack talking about this XD
Kite - Classic Marika, seducing and betraying to gain power. She's such a terrible person.
Jack - No no no, you've got it all backwards. MARIKA was seduced and betrayed! She's the victim here!
I can't wait to see your next stream.
That is EXACTLY how it’d go! 😆
the door made of bodys looks like rykard's boss room, and the thing marika grabs the thing out of looks like the godskin swaddling cloth imo, seems she was a man to start with to me
Oooo yes Rykard’s door, totally missed that
The thing is your a dummy luk
I just checked and i dont see any similarities, neither the outline of the doorways themselves align nor the general style of how its presented. The "goreway" also stretches into the sky, Rykards door ends abruptly.
She grabs rune
Noting the last part of your comment. I was a bit puzzled by the opening figure being Marika, because the character's body looks, to me, as being clearly male. I don't find it convincing to use the hair and shoulder wrapping to identify Marika, although the snake bracelet does seem to be unique to Marika so far.
Miquella is feared for his humble indoctrination. Why he sacrificed his alter-ego like most if not all demigods have, seems to be the mystery. Also listen to the Godskin's theme song. It was my favorite until today but now Messmer's theme just sounds like the same notes in a different but similar order. There may be something that I don't know I'm tired lol.
"Bathed in rays of gold "
Godrick
20:45 the scene with all the Tarnished (Im guessing theyre all Tarnished) gathered in front of Miquella's rune, the guy wearing the big hat with his head down was the one doing the flying kicks in the gameplay trailer. Maybe he's gonna be the one who introduces us to the different martial arts techniques, hehe~
But honestly, now THAT is what I'm most looking forward to. If martial arts are going to be a "weapon" category maybe each weapon will be an individual martial art - kung fu, more flowing tai chi inspired stuff, maybe even stuff like grappling or kickboxing, that would be really cool
In my opinion they are not tarnished and I have one piece of evidence Gideon the leader or Roundtable Hold he don’t know about Miquella's
If my theory regarding the greattree, its burning by the fell god and smoldering form as the crucible is right, this will become very interesting. Radagon will be a bigger part in this than people expect him to be
I agree. I think the affair and betrayal might be literal: Radagon and Marika had an affair, betraying Godfrey (and the tarnished) along with the age of the crucible.
@@ericjensen7580No, that's not at all what I meant, I don't even think that Godfrey will have any role in this dlc. This is before his time. Radagon is most likely the avatar of the crucible, a curse laid on Marika for stepping through the gore portal into the lands between. Or Radagon is his own person but still with the crucible as his origin. Either way, Radagon will have his origin revealed and his connection to Marika will be explained
@@lexmortis5722 oh, this is interesting. Radagon being the original persona, and Marika being the curse would be so cool and would make a lot of sense.
From the information I gathered from the game, it is kind of implied that Marika was part of the whole plot against the Golden Order and the Greater Will. If she was a curse put on Radagon for his sins against the crucible then it would make sense why Marika was part of that plot to bring that reign down.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, and reaching too much, and maybe you don't refer to any of this at all. But in my head it made total sense 😅
Brilliant analysis of the trailer, Kite!!! I’m with you with the piles and piles of corpses and the feeling that it could be crucible related in the most literal sense! 🤣😂
I, too, truly hope Miquella is “good”, but sooooo many people are ready for him to be the most wicked evil and I’m just not here for that 🤣😂💜💜💜💜💜
We will MAKE HIM GOOD!! 💜
Real big “I can fix him” energy
@@JackisaMimic 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 how daaarreeeee 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
@@JackisaMimic Coming from the king of “I can fix her”
@@kitetalesat least women are salvageable 😂
i think she was standing in the crucible, and using those runes she pulled out of that sack/corpse to create the erd tree on top of the crucible
I've heard it mentioned before that presumably the Lands of Shadow used to be located next to the Lands Between, but were eventually hidden or physically removed. The idea that Gold and Shadow arose might simply refer to the splitting of those realms as a result of Marika's actions. The atrocities that she committed cloaked in Shadow so that the Golden Order could take shape. It could also be a theme expressed in multiple ways throughout the game, like maybe Miquella and St. Trina being different sides of the same person, or it might also refer to Marika and Messmer respectively, since it seems like the latter was locked away for his actions.
It's still an open question in my mind why exactly he didn't go with Marika, since he appeared loyal to her. One thought I like is that perhaps he acted without orders on Marika's behalf, or was simply too barbaric in carrying out the war, and was banished as a result. Bit of a stretch but perhaps this plays into why she eventually becomes disillusioned with the Golden Order and chooses to destroy the Elden Ring. The alternative being that Marika knowingly used him as an instrument of ruthlessness before abandoning him, which would also align with what we know about her tendency to scheme and deceive. Marika's motivations are very vague to me at this point, but it's fun to speculate.
I have a negative view of Marika so I can see Messmer being used and discarded, as she does with allies.
The golden threads Marika holds up in the beginning made me think of the way she's crucified/hung up in the base game, and it made me think of the shape of her rune (or at least what I thiiiink the shape of her rune is supposed to be?), and in the shot later in the trailer, where the camera pans upwards from the city aflame to the tree, the crucified Marika shape is seen again, in gold. This made me think that it's symbolic of Marika "watching over" Messmer and his actions in the Land of Shadow, or somehow sanctioning what he's doing, that she very much is part of his plan or that he's doing it on her behalf?
Also the new sites of grace, are what I assume to be in the shape of Miquellas rune? if so, his rune's outer arc very much resembles (to me at least) the shape of the crescent moon 🌙 - or, more fitting for what we learn of him in the base game lore - a crescent sun, which could be a tie in to his plans to eclipse the sun?
Furthermore, I'm inclined to side with those who ponder if maybe Messmer is Godwyns twin - and they were the Gold and Shadow the voice in the trailer references. Godwyn is after all said to be Marikas firstborn, and it's incredibly unclear if his father is actually Godfrey, so he and Messmer then may be the result of Marikas "affair" the trailer mentions, if the affair is a literal reference to a sexual affair.
And since Messmer is heavily linked to snakes, it also made me think of how Godwyn (at least after he "dies", though maybe also before that?) has a fishtail - not exactly a snake but definitely scaley - could be another hint to a possible connection between the two, and whoever their non-Marika parent then would be?
I think the "sack" is a godskin noble. They are attached to the crucible and come from a time before Marika
Mesmer seem to be one of or not the oldest child of Marika.
But despite his longevity through the ages.
He still looks so very young.
I assume this has to do with his connections to snakes and dragons.
Because if you look at someone like Godrick, he is literally one of the ''youngest'' in the family tree.
But he looks so old, which makes me thing either Godricks blood is super dialuted or just that Mesmer has some crazy genetics.
"We just need a demigod that's not vile."
Morgot who was tortured yet still tried to be a good king for his parents. "Why you say fuck me for?"
I’m a terrible person for forgetting them constantly 😭
I wonder if Melina is Gold and Mesmer is Shadow and Marika pitted them against each other leaving Melina burned and bodyless.
This would also support Melina being born at the foot of the Erd tree.
I LOVE Marika as a reverse Eve: not just her making Man (Radagon) from her “rib” but her seducing the serpent. That is brilliant
That Christian lens just never leaves!
Notice how similar the godskins fire magic seems to be as messmers, especially when they throw the black fire balls at you by first holding it like messmer then throwing it. I think there bLack flame was a mockery version of messmers which was invented by the glome eyed queen when she suffered by his flame…
I’m pretty sure the golden thread is either the Elden Ring itself or something that has to do with it because we’ve seen this gold thread in the cutscene where Marika strikes the Elden Ring with her hammer trying to break it and then a second later, we see Radagon striking it again, trying to repair it.
15:45 using his skin as a mockery to also hunt the omens would ALSO be in line with the Omen killers and how they wear horned masks of the nightmares omens see to mock them.
Which begs the question… will we see this demon that haunts the omens dreams in this dlc
yeah when she’s pulling that string the elden beast OST starts, when that scene fades to black we get a different song.
edit: i want to add the ancient civ monuments show engravings of something. we see boats arrive, these people off the boats plant trees, and then it shows a ritual with these fruits. I think it’s fair to say the numens or marikas people show up, show them how to do something, and then betray them after in these rituals. obviously there’s some symbolism in the murals that won’t be 1:1 but i think that is the seduction and betrayal by marika, she brought something pretended to be something else until she could usurp the elden ring.
The followers will probably be who we summon to assist with boss fights.
100% yes! I can't wait to summon the purple robed fairy...
There is a symbol on the chest of one of the soldiers at 9:50 that reminds me of the symbol on the Gilded Greatshield, carried by Godrick Knights. And on the item description it says " The red tinge in the gold coat mirrors the primordial matter that became the Erdtree. The color of homeward yearning. "
So.. primordial matter.. is like.. congealed blood melted flesh slush?
...
Tubby custard.
I'm dying. I need this DLC now.
Please don’t ever make me picture “tubby custard” again
It's amazing, every time i think i might be on the verge of getting a grip on what the Elden Ring story might be, something new appears and throws a wrench in it.
Perhaps the Crucible Knights took part in this unholy war and that is why they were eventually discarded. They were the constant reminder of a horrific war. Of what had to happen for the Erdtree to be born.
I can't wait for the DLC and all of the videos you'll make on it! Also I like your new pfp it looks great!!
I think that's Miquella pulling his arm back out of that cocoon Mohg had his body in
I will now only be referring to Mesmer as Marika’s Snake Baby 🤣🤣🤣 Excellent breakdown.
Thank you!! 🐍
Ratataskr has a theory that Melina might be Mesmer’s Twin
yay. We've been waiting for this ;)
Marikas line"Thou are yet to become me." Said towards radagon makes me still question Marikas ability to just call him away from renala. It could be a stretch, but what if mesmer was radagons bastard. This could have been the secret affair that Marika would hold over him after locating his whereabouts. Maybe she's kept mesmer as blackmail or vise versa in exchange for the kids and renalas life. Perhaps he worked alone or somehow aided ronni in order to take marika down from the inside and form a new contract with the elden beast. If radagon is 100% from the lands between thou and not of Newman decent then theory falls apart. the red hair is already seen as rare amongst the siblings so I couldn't help with running with that train of thought. Been rewatching lore videos since I'm gonna be playing for the first time with the dlc installment.
Can't wait to see everyone's erdtree experience 🎉🎉🎉
OMG I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the "affair" was an actual affair between Marika and Radagon.
Theres been so many good theories coming out as of late, I found one that spoke about the pregnant woman in the portrait with the old man. They suggested that this could be a bed companion, that perhaps marika was the bed companion or born of one.✨️
And then I found a channel that suggests miquella could be a fairy/channgling based off of mythology✨️ this will truly be a game to lose yourself in lore for years to come. I wonder if we'll get another dlc down the road that focuses on end content depending on the ending you choose. Or if they could make ranni or dusk cannon for the next game. It's too intriguing to speculate what the next objective would be if ranni began her new order or if godwin could be brought back with the help of his rune. The twist would be godwin developing a dual personality or a different second state that is the God of destined death that we defeat. 🤓🧐🧐🧐 now I'm just needing but you guys get me!!
Another lore video pointed out that the creature at 16:28 is posed in a way that resembles overies, and the beginning of the trailer looks very similar to the female nether region that she's pulling the golden strings out of. Im not sure what this is implying, but i feel like birth will play a part in the story telling in the dlc or it could be blood born easter eggs. Im not sure, what do you guys think?
Missed you girl! Glad you’re back! Can’t wait for more content!
Hey!!! ❤️
Might be a reach, but could "a war unseen" also refer to a war whose destructiveness and brutality had not been encountered before. A sort of " a war to end all wars".
you said it yourself, they skinned the horned lions and made puppets out of them, they were never saints. Messmer which has snakes coming out of his chest might be pro crucible and the soldier having fitting armor fits.
The corpses reminded me of the ones you can see in the Ainsel river/Uhl Palace Ruins. They’re also skinned/gory and piled up. Could be that Marika seducing or even was seduced by someone/something and betrayed her people.
Ainsel River was used as a corpse disposal and the ants utilize corpses. The eternal cities, after their banishment underground, were not allowed to resurface and thus had to resort to other burial measures. The greatwaterfall basin was most likely their only option to maybe partake in Erdtree burial, but its understandable why they would rather choose to end their bodies peril after their souls ventured on with the ants acidity and relation to "scarlet rot"
@@lexmortis5722 I remember that theory. But seeing how these bodies are piled up and gored, it may be the case that the Lands Between were remade. Those bodies were buried along with the Uhl ruins and the shadow lands sundered, as the new age under Marika began. The eternal cities banished later and they just used the ants that were already feeding on these corpses.
I almost think the corpses that Marika is stepping on in the beginning of the trailer might be due to the Godskin Apostles. I wonder if this takes place when the Gloam Eyed Queen was present.
Was wondering if "Tyranny of Messmer Flame" is that his flame is very special and something about it makes it more dominating so tyrannical because it is a whole extra level of potency
I think the “threads” she’s pulling out look like long strands of golden hair.
There is also something on the fabric that kinda looks like buttonholes.
And when she’s holding the strands above her head they look like they are forming a rune arc.
No wait. Not buttonholes. It lookes like something was stapled shut and then the staples were removed again and now Marika is reaching inside. Could it be Miquella's cocoon? Is she stealing hair from Miquella to create the Golden Order Erdtree.. or to open a portal of some kind.. If it is not a cocoon it could be a pregnant belly and the reason the skin is so lose is because it held twins but only one of them is left in there now. Maybe the mother was killed and only one of the twins she was carrying survived.
I am going crazy.
OMG runes are gestated, right? I think there was something in Fia's questline about that. I love her questline. I went with the Duskborn ending for my first playthrough. Currently working on my second one in NG+.
i think "a war unseen" could also mean that acts were so heinous that the devastation was not seen before in history
I was waiting for this one 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Great stuff!
From what I understand,
This trailer highlights the true history of Marika's ascension to Godhood, plucking the Golden strands of the Elden Ring from it's previous host (most likely the Gloam Eyed Queen - the leader of the Godskin Apostles - all those corpses are flayed/skinless, the sky is also the color - Gloam).
Messmer seems to be the one that does all the Dirty work necessary for Marika's ascension, impaling & burning the forces of the Crucible (the Omen Lion Dancers & the Crucible Knights) this makes Messmer much older than any of Marika's other children, closer in age to Godfrey since they're both the champions of Marika's ascension. While Miquella is the youngest - not only because of his eternal youth, but also being born of Marika's 2nd marriage to Radagon (herself).
The NPCs are probably Miquella's "champions" to allow for his ascension to Godhood, since he is still searching for a true cure to his twin(Malenia)'s Scarlet Rot. He's freed himself of his Empyrean flesh by dying to Mogh's corruption. So for him to follow in his mother's footsteps he has come to the Shadow Realm to become a God himself and create that True Cure.
I believe that Shadow Tree is actually the Crucible itself - the Primordial Form of the Erdtree, and that veil we see is the Illusion of the Erdtree that Marika created for the Lands Between to see.
Been waiting for this
My self-analysis leads me to believe I will be fighting many of the things shown in the trailer during the game. I know I'm right; prove me wrong.
I think the giant runes left behind by micquella are actually the part of the new level up system. We have seen sites of grace in promotional art
To me, I think that the "sack" resembles a belly, and Miyazaki is known to incorporate themes of birth. From the belly, it looks like the godskins, and think that we just witnessed Marika steal the fetus of mezzmer from the belly of the globe eyed queen. Mezzmer does seem to resemble the thin godskins, so maybe Marika kidnapped his fetus to adopt him, and wrapped him in the golden threads of grace
That is exceptionally vile and so on brand with Marika
My speculation is that the pregnant woman in the painting in the previous trailer is actually Marika before becoming a god. She stands next to an old man (presumably the one she seduced and the father of her child Messmer) who bears a symbol very similar to the one associated to the Fell God of the flame giants. We can also see he was later impaled with gold which makes me think of a collaboration between Marika and Messmer to get rid of him. Messmer might be an overzealous vassal of Marika in the Lands of Shadow, cast away because of his bloodlust.
Oh my gosh YES! Patricide of the father; love this so much!!
11:05 someone said that the helmet looks like the sign on the Erdtree
It definitely looks like a tree!
The more I watch this trailer, the more I think the city being purged by fire is Leyndell. Just because of all the ash we see the first time we visit the royal capital.
exactly my thoughts man, it looks VERY similar to leyndell, too similar to be a coincidence.
i don’t think so, if we look closely at the outer ramparts, they have the same carvings of the propylea of the western castle in the gameplay trailer that is also melting away,
I love how graceful and feminine she is walking up the corpses that looked skinned. I feel like it isn't her doing and more the golden order is a response to the brutality that was before, but I do think people maybe taking "affair" too literal
Great breakdown
Thank you!
The Fire Snakes are VERY reminiscent of the Mt Gelmir Hexes, specifically Rykards Rancor >_> I do wonder if there is any relationship and if so what the implications are.
I can't believe you released this 3 weeks ago when this first dropped and already immediately had so many interesting insights 😂 Loremonger!
Marika being petty is so true though 😂 with George R R Martin being involved viewing Marika as a super smart Cersie kinda makes complete sense lol
I am glad K8 prompted our paths to cross, brilliant video! I'll have to pop into a live some time and say hello! 😁
Oh hi you!! Thanks so much, I am so happy K8 shared your video with me because I love the way you view the game’s lore and can’t wait to see your thoughts about the DLC! ❤️
@kitetales that's such a generous compliment ♡ likewise!
Those two videos I've made have thoroughly burned me out for now lol I dont know how y'all do it..
Are you going to stream the DLC playthrough? Or devour it in private? 😁
Oh trust me the burn out is real; I technically haven’t made a proper video in quite a bit because it’s a really exhausting and time-consuming process. I feel you on that! As for the DLC, I’m so happy I’ll be playing with Kate as she streams because I’ve heard it’s incredibly difficult and I’m not sure I could get through it alone 😆 Are you streaming it??
@kitetales
Thats so fair. I have scripts written but the thought of collecting all the videos and editing... eugh. Definitely a 10-15min vid next time 😅 Jack is a mimic (the absolute darling) is helping me out with advice about building a clip archive which is super smart lol I'm building it rn
Oh good idea! K8 would be a certified gem to stream with, full of good ideas too.
I am so torn.. I've never streamed before so, I think I'll try it this Wednesday or something and that'll be the decider hahaha I am also low key scared of someone in chat dropping a heart shattering spoiler 😂
@@ScumMageInfa Oh the spoiler chat is a good concern for sure; hopefully your audience would be good to observe requests not to post spoilers but there is always the risk of a wild spirit floating about!
The knight behind the Roman armor NPC, doesn't that look a bit like Vyke? Maybe they put a cloak around him so we can't see his iconic fingerprint armor, which would give it all away at once of course.
Atleast how i see corpse tree is mid point between shadow world of erdree and a world where we currently are in. So it shows how she creates new world from the shadow world
~ 6:45 nice. I do kinda expect Miquella is misdirectionally old, especially with his child like curse
You could take unseen that way, but I was wondering if it meant it wasn't a war but more like a red wedding sort of ambush and butchering that wasn't really a glorious fight or battle just a butchering ambush, thus not heroic material for songs and poems
What if ... The gash in the shadow tree is from Granssax's bolt? The Shadow Tree is just under/inverted from the Erdtree? "Birth of Gold & Shadow" seems like alluding to this duality of the trees mirroring duality of Lands Between and Lands of Shadow, Gold & Light
It looks like whoever is holding the Strands is becoming a God but I would swear its a male figure.
I can't remeber for sure but didn't a description say " Radagon is Marika" or something like that, hinting that Radagon was the original? Also didn't he have golden hair till he was cursed with red hair? Would nake sense for this scene.
Idk how to make it fit with Marikas snake bangle or Numen background but was just a thought I had while watching this video:)
That’s true!! The statue in the capital says “Radagon is Marika” and transforms his statue into hers…. Really great catch!!
I would guess that ist the Godwyn's secret twin. Since Shadow and Gold seem to have been born in the same timeframe.
LOL it also reminds me of the anime show seven deadly when the commandment of faith made that demon prison realm gate.
The helmets Messmers men are wear seem to be inspired the Griffith helm from Berserk. Not sure if that has any relevance at all.
I can see that!
Maybe the bloomeyed queen was marikas twin sister. True imperian queen that was pregnant but Marika betrayed her and stole her son’s hair strands to fool the fingers. Maybe marikas true hair is red not blond and took the image of the bloomeyed queen and she is cursed that’s why her twins can never be perfect. Idk 🤷🏽
Oooo that is really good, I love that!
@@kitetales If you look closely when Marika is holding the strings of hair or what ever they are, her hair is turning reddish.
ahhhh, Miquella and his ability to compel affection......I soooo hope he's good!
Not sure I agree on Rannie being the only "nice" demigod 😅 she has such cool logic, no deed is off the table if it is a means to her ends. 🤣 at least the "mean" demigods are up front about how savage they are 😂
I know, she’s so toxic and I love it 😆
Make perfect sense now 👌😅 shes elden rings hessignburg, (after Marika - the thirsty) #Runsinthefamily
I mean Ranni is also not very good, she killed Godwyn and Radahn for her own gain. I think only Radahn hasn't explicitly done anything bad that we know of at least.
Btw "Ranni" literally means Queen in Marathi and Hindi so im pretty sure her ending is the canon ending
I’ve always thought her ending was canon too. And yeah I goofed by not including Radahn… he was a good boy. 😔
The 'reversed biblical tale' sounds wild, with Eve/Marika seducing the serpent. Awesome theory. I almost wish that turns out to be the case due to how brilliant the idea is. So, we know that Miquella cares for and is fond of the meek and downtrodden, which fits the description of Crucible beings. So I wonder if Miquella really is good, and so comes back to the Land of Shadow (like Jesus returning) to set things right and atone for the sins of his kin -- i.e., his mother's betrayal of something (the snake?) and his brother's apparent genocide/oppression of the beings of the Crucible. Like a reverse Jesus? Maybe too much of a stretch there :D
Interesting that maliketh black blade is made of "Gold" and "Shadow". I have no clue if there is something to it, just an observation. Cool video !
great attention to detail, as usual! i have no idea what's going on, so i'm looking forward to the future video where you explain everything. 😂
Awwww shucks, thank you so much, here is hoping I get it all right (or close enough!)
That knightess leading the group has a really similar helmet to the Darkmoon in the brass set in DS1. Didn't think I'd see that tailed helm again.
The bodies are all skinned…like the godskin hunt took place here!
What if in order to summon/have audience with an Outer God, you need massive amount of "fuel" aka sacrifices? Game already has text with Ancestor Beast that states that through death, one gains power.
Deathbirds, Ancestor Beasts, all operate on this Principle.
And Marika was able to open this "dimensional gateway" to Greater Will and receive grace and godhood only by powering the ritual with thousands of dead, all killed in her War. Perhaps killed entirely to fuel this ritual and her ascension.
Dead bodies have energy to animate those wicker men giants, perhaps their purpose is also to harvest and gather these bodies in one place to power Marika's ritual?
Perhaps Crucible was Marika's creation instead of being naturally occuring. She is divine smith/alchemist, so she mixed all life into one goop to power up her ascension and communion with GW.
And her Golden Age of Bounty was only made possible by her ritual, massive power reserve which however was exhausted in time. So they started burying people into roots to prolong it?
Massive wars do fertilize the soil. Maybe Marika wanted her Erdtree to have fertile ground to grow in.
Marika only extracted one strand from the corpse. Where did the other strands of hair/ runes come from
I think, Messmer is the twin of Godwyn. Marika always gets Twins. Miquellas twin in Malenia. I think she just left Messmer behind, while taking Godwyn with her. Thats why the knifes killed him, because Godwyn and Marika dont belong in the Lands between.
So that would make them actually triplets not twins
“Miquella’s triplet” sounds like a drink I’d order from the secret menu
@@kitetales Don't go on giving me ideas
@@kitetales That sounds like Moghs main refreshment o.O
Something doesn't make sense, when was Mesmir born? Because he was in charge of war immediately after the event that presumably created a golden order. Either Marika already had kids with Radagon or Mesmir could be Marikas' brother instead
Long time lore theory consumer, first-time lore theory contributor, responding to the call for unhinged, shizo, wacky Shadow of the Erdtree theories. I've decided to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Here be swaddling cloths, a Marika Gloam Eyed Queen affair, Rune reincarnation and more. And with it all, a new-found appreciation and respect for the great lore channels that have inspired me to put this together. Your time is valuable so I've added a trailer reaction and just a small introspective on what these games mean to me. Enjoy!
ruclips.net/video/AVGs8J-7z2M/видео.html
....what if mesmer is the twin of godwyn....gold and shadow?...and miquella had an obsession with restoring godwyn using the eclipse, so perhaps that has something to do with his envolvemnt in the land of shadow and mesmer
plot twist mesmer is miquella; I bet
I pressed the video without noticing the youtuber, got ultra surprised hearing a woman's voice thinking it was prob a vaati or smough town video lol
I’ll take it!
11:49 if you ask me, that has to be godfrey/hoarah loux, it looks exactly the same as in the opening cutscene when the narrator says: „Hoarah Loux, chieftain of the badlands“. The „badlands“ areprobably in the land of shadows and the war against messmer is how godfrey originally died
😮❤
Idk, honestly.
They say, "we choose to follow," but how much of a choice was it really if miquella had bewitching powers?
Same red gold as the Regalia of Eochaid too. Heck Elemer wears a similar cloak to Godfrey, the armor is covered with sperent women and beasts, and his shield is red-gold depicting a knight in red gold armor fighting Skeletons.
Miquella is Marika.
the original Marika was betrayed and she was repackaged for the masses in the form of a messianic figure. The Marika we see is one of many Marika's created for each iteration of civilisation.
The original Marika led an insurgency which ultimately failed. It was Marika's discovery which becomes the secret lore, i.e the discovery of Greater Will, in our lingo free will- meaning land without any notion of God.
Miquella comes to learn this just as Marika once did. What we witness isn't the past but the future. Miquella recreating the original sin.
that was a lot of … flesh .. on those steps 🤢
👀
Kite!!! How do the Omen Lions use golden lightning???? Wouldn't this fuck up the whole timeline?
i dont go to deep into the lore but surprised that you consider all the demigods vile except for ranni. unless i heard that wrong.
Okay maybe not Radahn... But the rest yes!
@@kitetales what about godwyn? didnt he become besties with the dragons? 🥺
I think maybe we are seeing the creation of life in this land. Maybe those bodies aren’t mangled, maybe they are forming. Maybe people are forming. It’s like a uterine-wall type beat…life is forming into bodies and then they get there souls and they go live a life….? Just sayin.
I think they're cousins/ step siblings and eventually lovers. Saint Trina/ Miquella is Messmer's consort. Miquella was plucked from a womb, and so was Messmer (by Marika). The thing Marika* grabbed was an embryo that she cast into the shadow of the erdtree. As an embryo, he has a closer connection to the crucible.
All of the gods seem to have an alter-ego. It seems these alter ego's can live in the shadow of the erdtree. Our choice will be to either support Miquella or Messmer as they have their falling out. One will remove the shadow, and the other will make it last forever.
Oooooh that's a good one; yes! There is a line on the website about Miquella awaiting his Lord; I can totally see Messmer as said Lord and Miquella the intended consort! Arranged by whom though?!
@kitetales Given the connection to G.R.R. Martin, I think it's likely. I'd say their connection is dreams/ alternate realities aswell as rejection of the erdtree, and their kinship is the secret tragedy. Both of them are basically dead in the erdtree's realm. They are souls without a body that found kinship, in the shadow of the erdtree. What I wonder is, what happens when you remove the shadow? There are so many gods with split personalities. Do they all become one? Does Rani enter her body? Would Marika and Radagon become one, if they were still alive? (I think they may have split when they formed the shadow) etc... most important of all, what happens to Miquella and Messmer? I don't think either would survive removing the shadow. Also, you're completely missing Yonic imagery (nsfw). That's what convinced me they're both still born. One's in a female pelvic, and the other is pulled out from "yonic imagery".
@kitetales WAIT MARIKA CAME FROM THE CRUCIBLE AS NON-BINARY, SHE SPLIT WHEN SHE CREATED THE SHADOW OF THE ERDTREE They're androgynous in the trailer on purpose (they also have strawberry blond hair). It's a prequel! The erd tree we see is female, and the shadow is male. The male erd tree lives in the shadow of the female erdtree. I think we're getting into reproduction, identity, sexuality, race, culture, and dichotomies.
aside from miquella, i need more melina in the dlc
In the scene with Marika holding the golden threads, her hair has tinges of red at the tips, very much like Radagon’s boss fight opening scene. If this is the moment she becomes a god, it makes sense to me Radagon emerges/merges? I don’t know what this implies, but her hair looks so red in that scene and I don’t think it’s an accident or just the blood in background reflecting.
Oh good theory, we could be watching the moment he "appears."
Is it possible he's Miquella's shadow?
Miquella? Melina maybe...