The Mysterious Story of a Missing Medieval Kingdom
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In terms of Medieval mysteries, the lost kingdom of Rheinwg stands out. Referenced a dozen times throughout the surviving sources that we have, covering composition dates from the 11th to the 13th centuries, appearing in events all the way back in the 6th century to as late as the 16th, and yet, today we know almost nothing.
Hardly anything on the lost kingdom of Rheinwg has survived, and exactly no information on precisely where this missing medieval kingdom was located has survived either. This place left a mark on Welsh history, and the history of Wales, and indeed Britain, proceeded without it. Merely a century after one of it's last mentions, writers and historians were already beginning to forget the location of Rheinwg, and today I aim to reverse that.
In this video, I'm going to be examining all of the information we have on the lost kingdom of Rheinwg, we will seek to uncover its medieval records, examine what more contemporary historians believed, and finally look at what modern historians have theorised.
Sources:
Secondary, current research:
Guy, B. (2019). Rheinwg: The Lost Kingdom of South Wales. Peritia, pp.1-31. doi.org/10.148...
Bartrum, P.C. (1993). A Welsh Classical Dictionary : People in History and Legend up to about A.D. 1000. The National Library of Wales, pp.189, 366-367, 630, 633.
Charles-Edwards, T.M. (2013). Wales and the Britons, 350-1064. Oxford: OUP, p. 20.
Secondary, outdated/no longer supported research:
Lloyd, J. E. (1911). A History of Wales, Vol. 1. London: Longmans, Green and Co., pp.281-282.
Phillimore, E. (1890). The Publication of Welsh Historical Records. Y Cymmrodor, XI(1), p.141.
Morris, L. (1778). Celtic Remains. Cambrian Archaeological Association, pp.171-172.
Bartrum, P.C. (1948). Some Studies in Early Welsh History. Y Cymmrodor, pp.296-299.
Primary:
Philimore, E. (1888). The Annales Cambriae and Old Welsh Genealogies. Y Cymmrodor, IX, pp.141-168.
Ingram, J. (1912). The Annals of Wales.
Owen, A. (1841). Ancient Laws and Institutes of Wales: Comprising Laws Supposed to be Enacted by Howel the Good, Volume 2. London: G. E. Eyre and A. Spottiswoode.
Vitae Sanctorum Britanniae et Genealogiae. ed. A. W. Wade-Evans. Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1944.
Llwyd, H. (1573) Commentarioli Descriptionis Britanniae Fragmentum
Camden, W. (1586) Britannia
Maps:
© OpenStreetMap contributors, licensed under CC BY-SA: www.openstreet...
www.floodmap.net/
Music:
'Direct to Video', 'Reappear', 'Divider', 'Angie's Sunday Service' are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommon...
Source: chriszabriskie....
Artist: chriszabriskie....
Images from, and of:
'Voiage and Travayle of Sir John Maundeville', Snails, Moles: CC0, via the British Library
Caernarvon Castle, Dinas Bran, Chepstow, Margain Abbey, Brecknock, Goodrich Castle, Snowdon: CC0, via the Yale Centre for British Art
Hywel Dda, The Historie of Cambria, Cynan: CC0, via the National Library of Wales
Offa: CC BY 2.0 creativecommon..., via the Portable Antiquities Scheme
#wales
I could easily locate this place if I put my mind to it.
All hail CELEB. Our mightly lord.
You fail In life when you never put your mind to anything.
Have you tried looking down the back of the sofa? That's where my lost things usually turn up.
Not if I can help it.
Wot mind?
*Scholars:* _"Hey where did Rheinwg go?"_
*King Offa with a conspicuously Rheinwg-shaped belly:* _"Erm, no clue"_
Maybe the real Rheinwg were the friends we made along the way?
😮😮
Everyone asks where Rheinwg is, but no one asks how Rheinwg is.
A little Rheinwg lives in all of us.
🖤😞🙏
Everyone forgot about Rheinwg's younger brother Lemmiwinks.
It's important to remember that kingdoms in antiquity often were named by not just land occupied, but also through vassalage. Rome, for example, was any land that came under the sway of the city of Rome. So Rheinwg could have overlapped several other kingdoms.
Just what the Illinois Enema Bandit would say, the one with the bag of hot soapy water and the twisty nozzle.
Yeah feudalism made borders VERY weird.
The idea of nation states didnt exist yet
you need to explain it to historians like they are five years old
@@mondaysinsanity8193 Nation states were rare but not absent in pre modern times.
@@lolasdm6959 name a nation state pre say 1600
honestly I thought this was going to be about that one mythical welsh kingdom that was supposedly where the irish sea is today, but good to hear of something I never knew about before
Thank you! Cantref Gwaelod is super interesting too, might be a topic for the future
@@CambrianChronicles indeed Cardigan, Atlantis...
I don’t know anything about this kingdom, but seeing as water levels were significantly low for a time, allowing these people to go to the British Isles which at the time were a part of mainland Europe, all these stories about sunken cities and kingdoms could well be true to the extent that when ocean levels rose it took these lands and people with it. Presumably this is why the Flood is a story in every religion. Global warming isn’t anything new, so the flood really could’ve just have been the ice caps melting and the oceans rising at an unprecedented level completely submerging “Atlantis” or “Enoch”
@@coalkingryan881
I'd be very cautious with applying this to the Irish myths.
People died off in Ireland before settling again long after the sea levels rose.
So ireland was always an island to the longest inhabitants.
But grwat Britain has been inhabited longer and well into the times of doggerland.
Awesome.
Almost didn't watch because I thought it was going to be about John's lost kingdom.
« Kidneys : 14 » I love that you take the trouble of hiding hilarious Easter eggs within a engaging and well-written story. Very nice job.
Haha thank you
Honestly I just admire the dedication you put into finding the information and making this video of an obscure yet fascinating piece of Welsh history
Thank you!
I kinda like the idea of "Rheinwg" as the name of a region rather than a specific kingdom. It would better explain the weird variety of it's criteria. Remember back when "Asia" was just used to refer to Turkey or something? Now "Asia" refers to the entire continent. Region names are much more flexible than the names of actual kingdoms/places and thus it makes sense to look at Rheinwg that way.
In Spanish, king is ‘rey’ and kingdom is ‘reino’, both sound weirdly familiar to ‘rheinwg’.
@@trodat07 doesn't tell us much since these two languages developed so far apart from each other. Still, a very interesting coincidence indeed
I think Asia Minor referenced Turkey, not Asia
@@kweejibodali3078 oh yes that one thank you for reminding! Forgot the minor part
@@kweejibodali3078 The Geographical region of Asia minor is referred to today as Anatolia. Turkey occupies land beyond Anatolia, Anatolia is generally defined to end to the east at the Armenian Highlands and to the west at the Dardanelles and Bosporus straits.
Many different peoples aside from the Turks lived in Anatolia and to describe the region simply as Turkey does a disservice to it's history.
as rheinwgian i confirm not even we remember where we are
Wow, I didn’t know a thousand-year old person could use the internet
My theory is that it was considered to be most or the entire of southern Wales, and many lesser lords called themselves kings of Rheinwg as a form of laying claims to many more territories than they actually controlled.
That does make a lot of sense!
Just like people calling themselves the "Roman emporer"
It could also be that they all descended from a king named Rhein, which rule over the original Rheinwg. Just like all kings of the ptolemaic dynasty are named Ptoleme
I was thinking maybe the authors of these records were mistakenly referring to vassals as kingdoms and as such, referring to counts and dukes as kings.
@@CambrianChronicles Is this the location of Castle Anthrax?
Your explanation is quite reasonable. Remember Holland was once part of the kingdom of Spain. Some French and German kingdoms moved hundreds of miles as the king moved their center of power to a new and more strategic location only to loose the land of their ancestors to other invaders. Poland is also a nation, people and culture that has moved greatly. Once it reached from Lithuania through Belarus to Ukraine on the black sea but controlled very little of what is now Poland today. That was Prussia at the time.
Silesia was austrian until mid 18th century
Thank you, those examples are excellent as well, especially Poland, I hadn't realised how much it had shifted over the centuries
I am reminded of the Duchy of Saxony which wound up being in a completely different place than its place of origin (now called Lower Saxony)
@@studiumhistoriae The saxony you mention is still there, around Dresden.
@@studiumhistoriae Duchy of Saxony never moved. It was still there until 1871 when the 2nd Reich was formed. Lower Saxony or Niedersachsen is a completely different state
Great work again, especially the way historiography is portrayed. A lot of this vague "we're not 100% sure" sort of history often comes down to Occam's razor, doesn't it? Can't wait for what comes next!
It definitely does to a certain degree haha, sometimes it seems like it becomes too easy to just ignore any contradicting evidence
As History is usually written by the victors or usurpers, much of the truth has inconveniently disappeared from the records of the past!
I was planning on doing a Welsh campaign in ck3 but I couldn’t decide who to start as so I came here hoping to see which region had the coolest history lol
Hopefully I helped!
ck2 better
@@ibiGamer could u explain why? I've only ever played ck2 and love it but it seems as tho everything in 3 is made better, I don't have a strong enough laptop or pc to run ck3 so I'm waiting for the day lol
@@TY-km8hj Probably because of nostalgia value.
ck3?
My toxic trait is thinking I can find where Rheinwg is 🚩
6:50 Who has 14 kidneys? Except a sheep farmer...
someday people will think that Disneyland is a country where it is ruled by a giant mouse with talking animals
Isn't it interesting, that if I was forced to learn about this in a public school, this would be unbearably boring.
On RUclips, a short video made by a private scholar, someone who actually cares about subjects he teaches about - the same topic is made fascinating.
Thank you so much, that's very kind of you and I'm really happy that I made it interesting
An example of different geographical areas which came under the same name (or the designation moved) later in the medieval period is Burgundy. Not only was there a separate County and Dutchy of Burgundy, but the lands were both in what is now eastern and south-eastern France *and* also areas of modern Belgium. The location could vary by hundreds of miles depending upon when and whom you asked.
Very much enjoy your videos.
Another excellent example, thank you for sharing!
The name of Burgundy came from the Burgundians who lived in Poland around the 3rd century. Their name in turn came from or with people who lived in Scandinavia e.g. on the island of Bornholm.
A puzzle for future historians!
Can I just say that for me, as someone with an MA in history, it's so nice to see someone doing some actual historical research on YT, someone actually explaining a method and reasoning rather than the usual "15 things wrong with Braveheart that you didn't know about" type of nonsense. Perhaps I would have liked to have seen a bit more background about the sources and their authors (if at all possible, which, let's be fair, it probably won't be). All-round top effort!
What if there were more writings about Rheinwg that were kept in monasteries but were destroyed when they were dissolved by Henry VIII?
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened
@Darren Thyer Because... Because they reveal that British people are actually LIZARDMEN!
Sounds plausible
Did the Vikings attacking coastal monasteries destroy historical manuscripts as well?
@Justquitalready they did, but viking raids tended to be more like smash and grab attacks. In fact the chroniclers mention vikings ripping the jewels from the covers of books but leaving the books themselves. I don't doubt that the viking raids did some damage but nothing compared to the complete destruction of Henry VIII.
The key to finding a missing medieval kingdom is the same as finding anything else. It's always in the last place you look.
Is this kingdom possibly located in America? That's my theory /j
@@CalvinNoire I suspect Castle Anthrax is in this kingdom.
What a great and interesting video! I think it should also be kept in mind that the titles of kingdoms in the middle ages (especially the earlier middle ages) were not necessarily as set in stone as many people think. I imagine Rheinwg could have been one term used specifically for the kingdom as ruled by the descendants of Rhain until that dynastic connection ceased to be significant, though I admit medieval Wales is far from my specialty so I could be completely off the ball here.
Thank you! That's certainly a good point, it's definitely possible that it was a term for the dynasty descending from Rhain, perhaps until its eventual conquest by Gwynedd from the north
By confusing their foes of their kingdom's true whereabouts, it is certainly an interesting way of defending oneself.
Honestly, I think it's amazing we know enough to even have conjecture about these vague one time mentions in documents over a thousand years old. Fascinating, though.
I couldn't agree more, the amount of theorising that historians can do with only a few scant mentions is incredible
This has given me an existential crisis about being forgotten and not making a difference in history enough not to be thought of and that I will eventually fade away like I never existed. On a serious note great video lmao
I have already forgotten you exist.
Who are you?
sometimes its not bad to be forgotten, your name is in peace and you stay out of controversies (your close family will always know you), and when we are out of this world we meet our people (relatives, friends etc ) again
@@Relies-t5v all of this is for nothing, everyone will die, nobody will remember you.
I have never been so fascinated with a story/history with names I can't even begin to pronounce correctly 😅. Well done!
This is a history mystery. Thank you. Highly recommended. Great comments too. Very thought provoking. So nice to find a real interesting history channel without robot talking and silly scaremongering. 😂. Thank you again. 🎉Happy new Year Everyone.
One piece lore
You did have folks living in different places with the same name, in this time Alliance Marriages were common.
So you could have a King of a certain name in one place and their 3 Rd son could have the same name.
Nothing like a bit of medieval detective work to start the day, super interesting video; subscribed!
Just a little North of where i live is an interesting place called Sherburn-in-Elmut. Sherburn is Anglo Saxon in origin but Elmut is much more mysterious. It was a post Roman Brythonic Kingdom with not that much known about it.
I think it's amazing that it still exists today, how the place name survived the Anglisc and Danish expansions is what fascinates me.
I remember hearing something about a mysterious Brythonic kingdom called Elmet, & that's what I thought of when I saw this video title.
Well it did border onto Mercia but that's all I can think of to make it a contender. In fact rather than Elmut warring with Mercia they became allies against the Northumbrians.
@@eardwulf785 Oh gosh no, I didn't think Rheinwg WAS Elmet! It's clearly in a totally different place! Nor do I know enough to propose an alternative theory- & this seems correct anyway. It just reminded me of it cos it's another "mysterious" kingdom in Britain. I didn't know Elmet allied with Mercia against Northumbria, that's interesting! But then it certainly wasn't "all Celts vs. all Anglo-Saxons". I only really remember that Elmet was a Brythonic kingdom in the north of England tho; it was ages ago that I heard of it.
Place names seem to survive better than personal ones, even if they can still become corrupted with time as with any words. I mean, personal names can be synonymous or interchangeable with titles, and at least parts of the world once practised the ritual removal of names of former rulers if the new regime really wanted to supersede the previous one (Akhenaten is a good example, even if Ancient Egypt is pretty distant in place and time to pre-medieval Britain).
In contrast, and maybe I'm comparing apples and pears here, in south-east Scotland you'll find a strange mix of linguistic roots for the place names. There are more English-influenced Scots ones than almost anywhere else in the country (one reason it's the 'least Scottish' corner of Scotland), such as '-burgh'. Then you find very little Gaelic (one way to tell how deep into Scotland you are is by how many places have 'aber-' in them), again due to the cultural and geographical proximity to England, in part thanks to the old Roman road now mostly covered by the A1 motorway.
The other one, definitely the strangest and what your comment reminded me of, is Old Welsh. Seems like a fluke, one of those linguistic oddities that's hard to explain, but according to historian Alistair Moffat (I strongly recommend his work, especially The Faded Map, which is actually about 'lost' kingdoms) is due to a considerable wave of settlers from Wales a long, long time ago. The village I grew up in, for instance, has an entirely Old Brythonic (okay, not Old Welsh in this case but still pre-Gaelic Celtic) name that's uncorrupted enough for a layman like me to understand the etymology of.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Point is, history and linguistics are fascinating, but (especially ancient) Britain just takes them to another level.
As a proud Welshman I am soo grateful for this channel. Thank you for shedding some light on my ancestors' amazing history.
WAAAAALES
@@RR-ut3xl CYMRUUUUU. Happy New Year
@kprop Amen, gyfaill.
Welsh is really wierd but also interesting language. Like sometimes when I see something in welsh it looks like somebody's head has fallen on keyboard
@@vikttor_6495 LOL, very funny. Yes I suppose it would look strange to a non-Welsh speaker, but to me and other Cymry (the Welsh people), it is a beautifully poetic language. The poetic and prose literature, ranging from the work of the ancient bards to the authors and poets of today is a truly magical art form and unique to Cymraeg (the Welsh language). Cymru am Byth
i thought it would be about Arthur and the whole knights of the round table, but a weird bit of local history that sprung out of a very brief period of time that unintentionally got recorded in records and baffled educated people for centuries is simply much better!
it makes sense, it was lost due to the changes in how places are referred to and took a lot of investigation into other things not considered for you to expose the truth and give the place its due…you brought out a unique piece of Welsh history that deserved to be known
I mean, king Arthur didn't even exist, probably, since there is no evidence of him existing
@@aronaax there’s theories of him being a Cornish man of great power and wealth but not a king…evidence is there of his existence as a normal man but notbas a king
@@bostonrailfan2427 there is *no* evidence of an Arthur existing in the alleged time in the said place, being a king on top of all the other stuff. Sure, the legends of him written long after his alleged existence might have could have used other existing persons from around that time, to build the story around some "solid" base, but it's highly debatable that there is any actual proof of any of those inspiration-persons being in the picture to say the least
@@aronaax you’re spouting off crap without any evidence, but i doubt you care: you’re just trying to make yourself feel better by appearing to be smart.
i never said the king was real, just that the story had roots in reality that huge shock: English people try to believe isn’t true. their biggest hero being based on a Cornish rich person? that can’t be allowed! no, he must be fake! even though there is actual evidence into the story that points to local tales based on the descriptions in the stories. he wasn’t a king, but a very rich person of blood.
I grew up next to the river Rhine (wich is spelled Rhein in German). So this is doubly weird to me lol.
Did you ever see any Rhine-maidens?
The Rhine was named by the Celts, and then that name was modified by Roman and German language influences. The Welsh experienced the same, Celtic named modified by Roman then German language influences. So their similarity might in part be because of the linguistic similarity in their history. Or maybe just a coincidence with a sprinkle of linguistic origin similarity.
@@promontorium thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
@@promontoriumit's not that deep, alternate spellings of the same thing in multiple languages isn't that deep
Another great video about something (or even somewhere) that, as a Welshman, I knew nothing about. Diolch yn fawr!
Croeso! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Great vid. Me and my family have lived in Dyfed, forever. Congrats on the prononciation, wish the BBC took as much care.
so, uh, are we just gonna gloss over the historian with 14 kidneys or is that a story for another time
Rhein-wg meaning Rheinsland is for me as a german quite funny, since the region of germany Iam living in is called the Rheinland (the area around the river Rhein). Tho it has certainly nothing to do with the Rheinwg from the annales, since I doubt it was called this way in the 8th century, or that any King of Mercia could have had much interest in it.
That is very interesting, thank you for sharing! Hopefully we don't find evidence that they're connected, otherwise we'll have to re-theorise everything all over again haha
Oh and again thanks for the prononciation. I assume you had coaching from a Welsh speaker ?
Also, one has to keep in mind that Antique kingdoms are not necessarily entities geographically fixed. Sometimes, an exceptional king guides the kingdom towards an era of conquest and sometimes the momentum is so low the ruler must sacrifice lands and shift the center of gravity of the kingdom elsewhere... Preferably on a more defendable location or one making administration simpler and quicker.
Tremendous research, I one had a friend from London who moved to Swansea. She spent a very long Sunday driving around, trying to find a place called Abertawe, as it sounded so nice....!! lol. With the confusion like this, plus the sparse records, and the passage of over a thousand years it is a miracle that you could draw any credible conclusions. Well done.
Talking about a potentially lost Welsh kingdom is cool and all, but shouldn't we be talking about a man with 14 kidneys instead?
Well, I do wonder that lost kingdoms are actually very magical
Long live The Bangles.
This is going to keep me awake at night. My ancestors come from there. Am I Rheinuchian? I’m already feeling the prejudice. I demand reparations.
I'm not sure what the demonym would've been, the Welsh took their names from their kingdoms rather than the other way around, "Rheinwyr" possibly?
Being a north Powys guy I am so happy there is Welsh spreading around the world
Now this is a fascinating mystery.
Long live The Bangles.
babe wake up… new ancient British lore dropped…
UK is so rich in history you can afford to just straight up loose a kingdom xD
Is it possible some rulers were kings of Dafyd and Bracheniog, and that Rhainwg was the name for the unified kingdom of those two regions, which was formed sporadically when kings conquered one or the other?
Dyfed and Brycheiniog
Very likely ...but not necessarily just all about conquest ...but could also be about lineage/inheritance. Sons of the High King could rule over sub-Kingdoms during their father's life/overlordship & seat of the High Kingship would shift depending on where the eldest son had his reign as sub-King with the sub-kingdom becoming the new centre of power.
Ahh, this is such a lovely and entertaining video! Thank you for it! Amazing what we’d know if people didn’t keep destroying heritage. And how much we can extract from the scraps that survived WW2 and whatnot. The British Isles are so amazing to have escaped the worst of it. And thank you for monitoring comments and answering questions!
Incredible video as always. In fact, your whole channel inspired me to start leaning Welsh!
Thank you, that is amazing to hear!
Here was me thinking it was us on the wirral....there is even ...reputedly a herd of Haggis roaming free...sadly...everything up in a heap with the terrible stuff in Wallasey Village....hope you had a peaceful Christmas....E...
Thank you, I did, I hope you had a good Christmas too!
Yep looks like you may have figured it out, it seems like the name of the personal union of those two other smaller kingdoms.
Why does Mr Owen have fourteen kidneys
Instead of saying "c'mon it's not rocket science" people should start saying *"c'mon it's not the history of Early Medieval Welsh Kingdoms"*
Thank you for your great work, I live in pembrokeshire and fascinated by the ancient history of my land, keep up the good work
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!
My son lived in Hook on the western Cleddau. Interested to learn that Milford Haven doesnt mean a Mill on a Ford. Is Viking melr sandbank and fjordr inlet. Sandyinlet. Hubba overwintered there with 23 ships in 854. Lent his name to Hubberstone.
@@irenejohnston6802 yes and the vikings stayed longer than that, naming the islands of Skokholm and Skoma and taking all the trees to make more longships from them, my ancestry is viking so maybe some of them stayed
Imagine going back in time and giving one of these kings a can of red bull and some hot Cheetos.
Edit: lovely video. Makes you wonder how many stories are missing in the history of our world. So many generations and life stories forgotten forever.
Interesting video, my dnd homebrew setting is supposed to be in a faded and forgotten kingdom and I was looking for inspiration just like this! Thank you and I'll check out more
I'm glad to have helped, thanks for watching!
Very good work.
I would ask Welsh people in the area and maybe take a trip to try to confirm landmarks like the roman settlement or something like that.
Dwi wedi bod yn mwynhau dy fideos (er, dwi heb eu gweld nhw i gyd eto). Y newyddion gorau oll i mi, fodd bynnag, yw clywed dy fod ti'n dysgu Cymraeg. Ardderchog. Bydd hynny'n dwyshau dy wybodaeth hanesyddol, wrth gwrs ond, yn well byth, yn cyfoethogi dy fywyd. Dwi'n gwybod. Dysgais yn yr 80au, a dwi'n ffaelu dychmygu sut byddai fy mywyd wedi bod heb yr iaith. Pob lwc yn 2023.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, unfortunately my progress has been slow over the past year, but I'm hoping to pick it up again in 2023, as you have said it has a lot of benefits and I'm really enjoying it, I hope to one day soon have the abilities and confidence to reply to you fully in Welsh, thank you for watching my video
0:05 BIG SNAIL
Babe come here, new Wales lore just dropped
Never knew Shaggy had his own kingdom!
ZOINKS!!!!!
Another thought..a long one, bearing in mind local history, topology, local place names, and use of Welsh.
PBrychan, who gave his name to the kingdom Brycheiniog, was son of Marchell, the princess of an area called Garthmadrin in the Talgarth area. It passed to Brychan ,and around that area he had his base. Rhein was a son of Brychan thought to be eldest "legitimate", and the area wpuld then become lnown as Rheinwg. Now think of the area where a Talgath river flows to the Wye ..Enig or also in old spelling Enwg. This would have been Afon y Rheinwg or ..as happens ebven in modern Welsh .,Afon yr Einwg ..now called the Enig. It is an ancient royal and defended , fertile area, and subsequently a diocesan and monastic training centre ( a "clas"). It is so easy to invade up the Wye valley .. done many times, and obvious for Offa.
By this thinking, Offa invaded the land by the rivers joining the Wye which were Garthmadrin..aka Brycheiniog aka Rheinwg
(If you follow the valleys from there you come to the Usk, on to Towy valley and the Wye to Llanfair ym Muallt / Builth on to way to Towy valley, or to Rhayadr or else over to Teifi valley ie. linking easily up with Dyfed. So the divisions of ecclesiastical dioceses are also workable areas, using the ways above the rivers and that source may also be accurate of itself)
Sorry ..long, but hopefully much more logical explanation.
i love the way these videos are structured and how you tell the story
Thank you, I'm really glad!
Could it be 'Wenlooge'?
r/w/l often overlap phonetically between languages.
If you look at old maps of Monmouth, there's a Wenlooge in the vicinity of St David's.
Especially if someone can't say letter R clearly, but like V/W
Don't know if it helps but one of my Uncles lived on a farm called Cadwgan, on the north side of the hamlet Rhoshill. My family tree goes back to the 10th century as we've always been farmers. Another Uncle farmed ten miles north on the road to Cardigan whilst Another Uncle ten miles to the South farmed near Clynderwen. My Dad farmed near Glogue and Llanfyrnach. The latter not to be mixed with the other village of Llanfrynach. There's a document of Farmers in this area in both the British museum and the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth. Good luck and thanks for the video of useful information.
Always thought Seisyllwg was North Ystrad Tywi (Llandeilo, Llandovery etc) and Rheinwg was South Ystrad Tywi (Kidwelly, Llanelli etc) Your theories are excellent though in terms of Dyfed and Brycheiniog.
Yet another banger video! Thanks so much
Thank you!
There is another Rhain in the same area. Unfortunately, he is probably legendary than real. He is proposed as an ancestor of Merlin (yes, that one). Rhain - father of - > Maredydd -father of-> Meruig - father of -> Aldan - mother of -> Merlin (yes, that one). If this Rhain ever existed, he probably was a Déisi (or Irish pirate, using the term loosely) that was exiled from Ireland and set up a sub-kingdom inside Dyfed that was absorbed later.
My City in North Germany is named Herford and it had many pronunciations like Herifurth in the past and it even lies near the Rhein xD
You can't get too hung up on the spelling of things . In "olden times" spelling was not a thing . Not until up to more recent history (last couple of hundred years) was the spelling of words considered important . The first English dictionary was published (circa) the 1770s and before then people spelled words however they wanted . Add to this the fact that the "English" language is made up of words from a dozen or so other languages and few people could even write (historically speaking) and you can see how problematic it would be to get everyone to spell words the same way.
I've read medieval legal documents in which a proper noun was used half a dozen times in one line and spelled differently every single time. They were totally indifferent to spelling.
Pretty awesome video! Well summarized and i loved that he quotes and lists his bibliography! Keep going! 👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you!
Great work, and Wales is very rarely mentioned in historic terms. The Cambrian Chronicle's tell of early Welsh history, sometimes known as Harlean. The actual name Wales apparently means foreigner, or stranger, which is an insult really. Cymru is the true name, with variants it can change, Khumry, Cimmeroi, and Cimmerian, as mentioned in the Odyssey. Scotland has Cumbria, Ireland was known as Hibernia. Yes lot's of Wales has disappeared, and the language is hanging on by a thread. There were 2 King Arthur's (allegedly) One from the 2nd or 3rd century, and the most famous one from the 5th century, but also hidden, like the disappearing lands.
Well, that is history for you. We probably have solved this one but new evidence could pop up that changes everything at any time.
The problem with the British isles during the dark ages is that there are so few written records from the time that we have to look to archaeological finds and folk lore, but folk lore isn't very reliable and unless the archaeologists find something rare with writing on it, they can't really tell us what something was called.
And of course, archaeologists only have the funding to make so many digs over the entire British isles that most finds are found by accident when someone is building something like a highway and are being forced to pay for a survey before.
Cymru is still a land filled with ancient mysteries but sometimes we get lucky and solve one of them. :)
An interesting mystery. My first thought, after you revealed the name but not the evidence, was that Rheinwg was a different Welsh form of the old kingdom of Rheged. It could have been invaded by Offa, but would not explain anything else. As someone who went to university in Ceredigion this was a fascinating video, thanks for sharing it. I'd never heard of Rheinwg before.
Rheinwg seems like a more poorly recorded mirror of Lotharingia, a kingdom named for a person which would never hold a defined border.
Seems right
Watch someone right a historic fantasy book about it; so much leeway.
On the map at 2.22, there is a Rei nuc in the upper east of what I assume is Welsh territory :D
I cover it at 7:22!
This video is entertaining as expected from your channel.
Thank you!
@@CambrianChronicles can't tell a lie when your speaking the truth 😊
considering that our version of humans have been documented all the way back to 250k years, there’s probably so much lost history, empires erased, and planetary resets.
Rheinwg could be “Those lands”. Rhein being the welsh word for “those”.
Could have been one of the worlds first records of a divorce calling their X’s possessions “those things”.
Rhein was the name of several kings, so it’s likely “the lands ruled by Rhein” in the same way that Lotheringa was “the lands ruled by Lother” before sticking around as a typographical name long enough to become the modern “Lorraine”
The Welsh word for "those" is "hynny" is it not? Rhein isn't recorded as being used as a word anywhere, its a semi-uncommon personal name, written in older writings as Rein or Regin, from the Latin "Regina"
I don't want to sound wrong, but why could no one draw back then? Look at that thumbnail picture!
Goofy ass king in the thumbnail tho
Sounds like Rohan could have been a real location. I wonder what Tolkien knew about this kingdom covered here.
Rheinwg was a subject of interest amongst Welsh historians in the early 20th century, J.E. Lloyd included it in his 1911 work 'A History of Wales: from the earliest times to the Edwardian conquest', so Tolkien very well could have heard of it.
I know of a river Cynon, that originates in the brecon beacons, that people in the area tend to pronounce as Cynan. I grew up there, but I have no idea why it's called that. Unfortunately the Cynon Valley is in what used to be known as Mid Glamorgan 😅.
Yes. I'm from Mid Glamorgan or should I say Rhondda Cynon Taff.
It would be interesting to do DNA investigation on those who can trace or own their connections to these areas , Those who have the most ancient ties , could very well have dna which links to The Levant , the Mediterranean , I wonder because of the link to David , and because Rome brought slaves to the Welsh tin and copper mines , 1st to 3rd centuries , Welsh language and Hebrew have links as well , KEEP DIGGING PLEASE . ❤NZ Welsh roots ❤
fideo da eto!
Diolch yn fawr!
It’s amazing how little we know about the past
Also, how much we do know.
@@drychaf that writing is a recent invention
Something about this video is just so eerie
I find lost history to be inherently eerie personally, just the concept of something vanishing from everybody's collective memory is so unusual
I clicked thinking this was a vid about Prester-John style country, only for the big reveal to be it’s about a place I’ve *lived.* Nice.
I just went through a binge watch of your entire channel, definetly my new favorite youtube channel, keep up the great videos!!
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that and I'm glad you're enjoying my videos
these guys really needed to take a hint from Alexander, if you want to be remembered, name EVERYthing after yourself.
also, what does one accomplish with 14 kidneys?
Been watching a lot of your previous videos after finding this one! Welsh history is very interesting and I look forward to learning more from you :)
Thank you, I'm glad you like them!
Also, we have to be careful when relying on records that mention 'south Wales'. This could include current Gwynedd and Flint, in comparison to the 'north Wales' meaning the Rheged; or, it could include only the lands south of the Bristol Channell AND the 'English Channel', meaning Kernow and Cornuaille, as opposed to the 'north' being Glamorgan, on the north side of the seas, in the same kingdom. And at least one King of the British ruled in Rome, in Italy, and not actually in GB for most of his life.
medieval manuscripts are one of my favorite things because they capture the human imagination like nothing else
we’re living in an age where information is so easy to find, but back in the middle ages and the dark ages it wasn’t like that. people had to fill in so many gaps of knowledge that so much interesting art and information emerged
Please don't use the term "dark ages", that is enlightenment era word to try and put those who came before as simpletons and that in this new era of "enlightenment", they have moved past those "simple times". Modern-day historians are constantly lamenting about how pop-culture has embedded this term into the social subconscious, despite it being a falsehood.
the process on display in this video is one of the crucial pillars of building a reasonably accurate history. through painstaking comparisons, morphing, and flexing the terms and names in seemingly disparate accounts. all built on a bedrock of previous knowledge acquired by this means. it's a grand Gordian knot and maybe will sort it out someday.
That is a very interesting story and you presented it very well as well.
I'm looking forward to what you will do next ^^
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Comparing Old World architecture to the buildings we have today, I believe it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that perhaps we're not the most advanced civilization to inhabit the planet. If we take that into consideration, it would make sense that some of the kings were able to travel great distances.
Ahh, an ending any seasoned CK3 player should have seen coming! Great video as always, keep up the great work!
Hello fellow CK3 gamer
Never been so excited at the sight of a screeching genealogy chart in my life
Thanks for this video, I love a good historical mystery!!! And by the way the paintings you used as the background to your presentation were simply gorgeous. I adore a good landscape, and stick some ruins in it - and I am all in lol
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it, and that you liked the paintings too! The Yale Centre for British Art has a bunch of public domain ones of Wales so I thought I'd change the background up rather than just showing a map all the time