It's actually quite a simple trick. Make the user interface feel light and have real world elements integrated into it with lots of margins and padding to make it feel spacious like a planet. The new MacOS and iOS just have so many random features and ancient UI elements dotted all over the place they feel claggy and cluttered.
I wish he was still there too. I wonder if he'll ever write a book explaining what happened at Apple in 2012 when Tim is long retired. I think it's a totally different company than back then now.
No, sweetheart: the soul of Apple were /are, beside Jobs, the figures like Avie Tevanian, Johnny Ives, Jon Rubinstein, Serlet maybe... Not this cretin.
Apple gets worse and worse ever version since Steve died and Tim Cook fired Scott. Apple has always been about the software. I would love IOS on any hardware. I won't go android because of IOS.
Peter d'Entremont Though we won’t know what would become of Apple had Jobs still be alive and Scott still with Apple, I still enjoy my iPhone Xr and iPod Pro. Not sure what else you can do with technology that’s so matured. Of course I’m not engineer so who am I to say?
Love Scott’s animated way of talking, I miss seeing Steve on stage but by the same token I also miss seeing Scott on that same stage too, both have such a powerful prescience.
This was so amazing, thank you! Scott, I'm so glad Steve has brought the acupuncturist doctor to the hospital and thank you for sharing this very personal story.
Man what a great interview. Had Steve not died and Scott were still at it makes you wonder what else might have been, where would be as a company and what products would look like. “The things we could have done”
I have a feeling that some time in the future Apple will suffer from bad products and bad sales and Scott, who is Steve's prodigy from NeXT, will magically return and save Apple.
Scott is clearly respecting Apple and Steve very much... I think its a little miss acknowledgement that HIS FIRST TEXT was sent with iPhone.. Didnt he use Pager in the 90's ??????? Or even Sidekicks ??????
While there’s no doubt about Scott’s role in the iPhone later on, in the beginning he wasn’t that involved and it wasn’t Steve Jobs idea. Scott omitted these facts and focused on Steve. iPhone was Hullot’s ideas and Steve was AGAINST it. Hullot had to convince him to do the iPhone. Later on he pitted Scott’s Mac team against Tony’s iPod team to build the software and Scott’s Mac team did a better job. Some of these parts he probably can’t say for legal reasons.
Say what you want about Scott Forestall, but damn the guy could deliver, very people could've started off iOS the way he did A shame he couldn't stay on at Apple
It's no coincidence that iOS has become so buggy since his departure, not to mention the keyboard much less accurate. Either QA standards have dropped or the new team just isn't as good.
RltchieI no it has something todo with using an very old pice of software and slap some new stuff to hide all those things wich are not ideal for the new processors. It works but it looks and feels ugly if you code with it i don’t need to have a vtable for every object i create.
it is just a feeling. it has not. one true thing is with public beta there are so many bugs still nothing with UI and i am telling this after more than 3 years of using public beta!
My iPhone X is the best so far. Significantly improved in every way compared to the 6 I had before it. I have not noticed what you are referring to. Kudos to the team that developed it.
like a "Social Network" type movie but about the iPhone creation and the keynote and how it was so choreographed down to the very keystroke? that'd be an interesting film. I wish the Steve Jobs movie would've gone into the later days of Apple with the Macbook, iPad, and iPhone.
if the iPhone keynote was a bust if it was still super buggy, i want to know how the demo went with Cingular. Was it also buggy? did they have to choreograph that too?
bigtakeshi like he said they wanted to see if apple would have to create their own network or be able to partner with a carrier that only worried about the connect for the phone. If they had created it and and look for a carrier it probably would have taken long to get a deal.
Good interview but wrong about origin of the touch device. This was Jony Ive/Duncan Kerr within the iD team and well before the likes of Forstall got involved.
He wasn't fired because of that, a lot of the employees already struggled to work with him since Steve died, so he would've been fired regardless. Read the book 'After Steve' by Tripp Mickle, goes into a lot of detail into that time period.
Scott one day will come back just like Steve to save apple, because MBA types like Timmy usually destroy companies in the long run, in the short run MBA types can only sustain momentum.
At 29:57, Scott says "and made this very simple demo. I'm pretty sure it was X who did it, and X is one of the best. And he...". Does anyone know who he is referring to? His name is "Boss" or "Boz" or something similar?
Scott was known as the second Steve Jobs and likely successor as Apple CEO. Many Apple executives disliked him, including Tim Cook, and wanted him gone to as part of a initiative to purge those that Jobs was most closest to as they were considered too hard to work with. When Apple Maps controversy happened, Tim considered it the last straw and “justifyingly” fired him.
When will we hear from more Apple insiders, we need more perspective on the way this company operates from the inside. Everyone has been tight lipped until this video. Johnny Ives needs to quit and spilled his guts, I would love to hear what stories are locked away in his brain.
no it wasnt.. it was quickly seeing mass adoption. Especially in the younger crowd because of BBM. Literally everyone in my college [around 800 ppl] had blackberry's and I was there with my Nokia N ninty-five, holding my balls.
Lots of talent, could have remained an asset but erroneously chose skeuomorphism as his fugly hill to die on, and didn't show humility around Apple Maps (though I thought he was thrown under the bus on that one - self-congratulatory hyperbole is an Apple-wide problem). Didn't recognize the limits of his abilities - "I always loved design" but Apple had superior expertise in design not in the software function. Seems like he had an amazing relationship with Jobs.
He chose that design language because it was relatable and easy to understand; and to many, fun and enjoyable to use. I have tested this theory before with my grandmother. I handed her a modern iPad and told her to do a few simple tasks and she managed to get lost immediately. I handed her an iPad running iOS 6, with Forstall's UI and she immediately understood it like it was second nature; and it was not because she figured it out on the newer iPad, I gave her the old one so she could figure out how to do the tasks, because she was lost on the modern UI. Visual cues play a massive part in design, especially with UI/UX and modern flat designs lack these for reasons that are beyond my comprehension. Everyone tried to justify the iOS 7 redesign, saying things like, "Everyone knows how to use their device now." What about newer generations? What about people that have never used an iPhone? What about older generations that have resisted trying smart devices for ages? It crippled the approachability of iOS that Forstall mentioned numerous times. Not everyone liked the visual design of legacy iOS, even Forstall admitted he wasn't a fan of some of the designs they made, but that isn't the point. The point was, keep it simple stupid. If you judge Forstall's design teams for the visual appeal alone, you have completely missed the point in favor of a subjective preference. You are correct that the designs were not perfect, but the approachability and ease of use provided by legacy iOS is unmatched by any modern mobile UI, including iOS 16 and 17.
i wish he'd go into the story about how Apple bought Fingerworks and took their multi-touch technology just because someone knew a person who had a fingerworks pad b/c she had a wrist injury and couldn't type. Steve Job flat out LIED when he said "we have invented a technology called multi-touch" at the iPhone launch.
But that was true, he said “we” as in the people at Apple including those who came from Fingerworks. Though they did change a lot from that original technology, like making the touch surface a display and having it react with fluidity, making it feel much more intuitive for the average person. The original fingerworks technology was not that intuitive.
Those are two different things. I'm sure they must have tried it. It's just a shot in the dark. When a person is dying, the people near them, their friends, family .. they try everything and anything to save his/her life. In scott's case it worked, no one knows how but it's irrelevant. I don't know if you were trying to mock through this comment.
So many boomers in this comment section talking about the good old days when he was at Apple and should return, look how amazing Apple is today and he hasn’t done a single thing to it since iOS 7. I think his departure was for better and it’s easy to hate on Tim Cook and Apple for the pricing but like if your complaining about how pricy the phones are and the specs are low, you just don’t understand tech. Samsung’s are more expensive then iPhones. iPhones don’t need 16gb of ram because iOS is very well optimized for the hardware so it doesn’t need crazy specs. Scott forstall made Apple maps the embarrassment of what it was and refused to apologize for it and tried to say it was ok because Steve jobs never said sorry for attenagate. Tim Cook has helped and made Apple the great company it is today and no I’m not an Apple sheep, I have used androids in the past.
@@AD-ky5ci boomers are the worst. I support this ageism in this context. Boomers always have this stupid nostalgia about "the good old days" when things were actually worse.
Scott had this way of making the software intuitive but also magical. It felt like a tiny world in your pocket.
It's actually quite a simple trick. Make the user interface feel light and have real world elements integrated into it with lots of margins and padding to make it feel spacious like a planet. The new MacOS and iOS just have so many random features and ancient UI elements dotted all over the place they feel claggy and cluttered.
I wish Mr. Forstall was still at Apple. He's got tremendous talent.
@Kole Melvin yea, I've been watching on Flixzone for since december myself :)
@Kole Melvin Definitely, been using Flixzone for since december myself =)
Same!
I wish he was still there too. I wonder if he'll ever write a book explaining what happened at Apple in 2012 when Tim is long retired. I think it's a totally different company than back then now.
I see him return to Apple in the future. He is a great guy :) he helped made the iPhone what it is today
One of the most fun technology commercialisation interviews I've ever heard. Full credit to Scott Forstall.
I'm miss Scott so much. Together with Steve they were the soul of Apple.
No, sweetheart: the soul of Apple were /are, beside Jobs, the figures like Avie Tevanian, Johnny Ives, Jon Rubinstein, Serlet maybe... Not this cretin.
and u know this how?
Apple gets worse and worse ever version since Steve died and Tim Cook fired Scott. Apple has always been about the software. I would love IOS on any hardware. I won't go android because of IOS.
Peter d'Entremont Though we won’t know what would become of Apple had Jobs still be alive and Scott still with Apple, I still enjoy my iPhone Xr and iPod Pro. Not sure what else you can do with technology that’s so matured. Of course I’m not engineer so who am I to say?
I agree, they were soulmates
We miss you Scott.
One of the best interviews I've seen in a while! Scott is such an intelligent guy.
Love Scott’s animated way of talking, I miss seeing Steve on stage but by the same token I also miss seeing Scott on that same stage too, both have such a powerful prescience.
This was so amazing, thank you! Scott, I'm so glad Steve has brought the acupuncturist doctor to the hospital and thank you for sharing this very personal story.
You can tell how much Steve meant to Scott. Not only as a colleague but as a friend.
The way he tells story and his joke, reminds me of Steve
same :( rip steve
he is a legend, and he is kind instead of being criticized as mean and insulting.
He is like mini steve
The story about his life being saved thnx to Steve is very touching
Man what a great interview. Had Steve not died and Scott were still at it makes you wonder what else might have been, where would be as a company and what products would look like. “The things we could have done”
What a great interview! Very entertaining and Scott can really tell a story. Good to see him again after all those years. :-)
Interview about software development starts at 11:10
Scott is a guy with true soul
It’s a trip watching this on my iPhone
Great interview. I do wish he were still at Apple.
Wow Scott is such a legend 👍
What a wonderful sense of humour Scott has.
1:02:11 - That alone showed a great leadership quality that qualifies him to become a great CEO :)
Indeed!
Scott is the GOAT
this is awesome, so rarely can you get behind the scene stories like this especially about Apple!
It was over 15 years ago tbh
Am I the only one that actually thinks the word “Skeuomorphic” sounds really cool? I think that’s my new favorite word
Lol
I have a feeling that some time in the future Apple will suffer from bad products and bad sales and Scott, who is Steve's prodigy from NeXT, will magically return and save Apple.
This comment is underrated.
It's already happening it's just not that much noticeable. The fly-wheel will spin for a long time without additional force applied.
The power of 5-element acupuncture!
this guy supposed to be the apple's future, not its past.
Amazing I’m watching this on my iPhone SE 2020.
Apple needs to bring this man back. I miss skeuomorphism with a passion
It’s been 7 years, get over it.
@@rambleshaker8806 stfu iOS 6 was the best no doubt
Scott is clearly respecting Apple and Steve very much... I think its a little miss acknowledgement that HIS FIRST TEXT was sent with iPhone..
Didnt he use Pager in the 90's ??????? Or even Sidekicks ??????
It feels weird watching this on a iPhone 5 on iOS 6
It’s almost like watching Kramer from Seinfeld discuss his coffee table book
lol
Tim Cook is a fool for removing this guy from Apple.
44:14 what is he saying ? Dedicate a wing ?
Yes, basically donate a building with his name on it.
Scott, if you read this, why not open your own tech company? Like, Steve did with NeXT? Srsly
I can’t see him doing that. I think he’s having an early retirement with his love for broadway
While there’s no doubt about Scott’s role in the iPhone later on, in the beginning he wasn’t that involved and it wasn’t Steve Jobs idea. Scott omitted these facts and focused on Steve. iPhone was Hullot’s ideas and Steve was AGAINST it. Hullot had to convince him to do the iPhone. Later on he pitted Scott’s Mac team against Tony’s iPod team to build the software and Scott’s Mac team did a better job. Some of these parts he probably can’t say for legal reasons.
Say what you want about Scott Forestall, but damn the guy could deliver, very people could've started off iOS the way he did
A shame he couldn't stay on at Apple
wish someone would explain what happened 2011 2012
@@buowerc The new book 'After Steve' by Tripp Mickle explains a lot of it. Worth a read.
amazing stories
All these apple guys seem to share this similar witty humour thing..
Wow, what a cool guy
Come back Forestall!
Lmao, I thought it was Bill Gates, in the thumbnail.
It's no coincidence that iOS has become so buggy since his departure, not to mention the keyboard much less accurate. Either QA standards have dropped or the new team just isn't as good.
RltchieI no it has something todo with using an very old pice of software and slap some new stuff to hide all those things wich are not ideal for the new processors. It works but it looks and feels ugly if you code with it i don’t need to have a vtable for every object i create.
it is just a feeling. it has not. one true thing is with public beta there are so many bugs still nothing with UI and i am telling this after more than 3 years of using public beta!
My iPhone X is the best so far. Significantly improved in every way compared to the 6 I had before it. I have not noticed what you are referring to. Kudos to the team that developed it.
iPhone X is the best phone ever produced. Cook’s legacy is just as incredible as Jobs...
The the current design of iOS is so lifeless
Somebody should make a movie of iPhone 😁
like a "Social Network" type movie but about the iPhone creation and the keynote and how it was so choreographed down to the very keystroke? that'd be an interesting film. I wish the Steve Jobs movie would've gone into the later days of Apple with the Macbook, iPad, and iPhone.
Amazing Interview..
if the iPhone keynote was a bust if it was still super buggy, i want to know how the demo went with Cingular. Was it also buggy? did they have to choreograph that too?
He did say they had 4 of them so probably.
I can see why he’s involved in theatre now.
Why?
@@remasher I just feel like the way he tells stories is a bit different, maybe more exciting than usual compared to other people who work in tech.
iOS 6
CLOSED FOR MAINTENANCE - The iOS with the best design
@@blankearth5840 so what you think , it's like finding gold in away
@@fireteehee iOS 6 was the best no doubt
Please tell me they touch on the big skeuomorphic design debate topic
I'd be curious to ask Scott why they didn't build the phone first and then shop it to carriers. As long as it's patented, no one could steal it.
bigtakeshi like he said they wanted to see if apple would have to create their own network or be able to partner with a carrier that only worried about the connect for the phone. If they had created it and and look for a carrier it probably would have taken long to get a deal.
I would pick Scott over Hair Force 1 any day.
Good interview but wrong about origin of the touch device. This was Jony Ive/Duncan Kerr within the iD team and well before the likes of Forstall got involved.
the touch technology was started before the iPhone, b/c they were going to build the iPad and ended up just using the iPad technology in the iPhone.
If he had only swallowed his pride and signed the apology along with others for the Maps debacle, he would still be there.
Cook just wanted him out regardless. Think about it.
He wasn't fired because of that, a lot of the employees already struggled to work with him since Steve died, so he would've been fired regardless. Read the book 'After Steve' by Tripp Mickle, goes into a lot of detail into that time period.
Scott one day will come back just like Steve to save apple, because MBA types like Timmy usually destroy companies in the long run, in the short run MBA types can only sustain momentum.
Shockingly my blackberry curve with a physically querty keyboard still has faster reaction time than my iPhone.
At 29:57, Scott says "and made this very simple demo. I'm pretty sure it was X who did it, and X is one of the best. And he...".
Does anyone know who he is referring to?
His name is "Boss" or "Boz" or something similar?
Bas Ording
ruclips.net/video/2x9XdVWr_70/видео.html
Scott should’ve been CEO
He seems like a very, very smart guy
He is
Scott was known as the second Steve Jobs and likely successor as Apple CEO. Many Apple executives disliked him, including Tim Cook, and wanted him gone to as part of a initiative to purge those that Jobs was most closest to as they were considered too hard to work with. When Apple Maps controversy happened, Tim considered it the last straw and “justifyingly” fired him.
34:34 lol
When will we hear from more Apple insiders, we need more perspective on the way this company operates from the inside. Everyone has been tight lipped until this video. Johnny Ives needs to quit and spilled his guts, I would love to hear what stories are locked away in his brain.
Who is "Boss" ?
He looks like someone who could perfectly play green goblin in Spiderman
the audio is botched
Hes still wearing the same shirt from 2012
Blackberry was a tiny player compared to Nokia.
no it wasnt.. it was quickly seeing mass adoption. Especially in the younger crowd because of BBM. Literally everyone in my college [around 800 ppl] had blackberry's and I was there with my Nokia N ninty-five, holding my balls.
Swift כמו סרטים ומוסיקה. תוכל לעבוד עם עוד שפות למעבדים ואפלקציות ומשחקים גם ארגוניות ובתחום המדיה ומדיה בכלל.
Is that Jim Carrey 's brother?
My dad went to high school with Scott Forstall
When did Bill Gates become a talk show host?
He got paid a shit ton of money to “willingly step down” from Apple. Also the host looks like bill gates
oh mannnn I like Scott Forstall, the best, the best, the best..... even I am not Apple user (only use iPad), please back to Apple ahahahah....
Lots of talent, could have remained an asset but erroneously chose skeuomorphism as his fugly hill to die on, and didn't show humility around Apple Maps (though I thought he was thrown under the bus on that one - self-congratulatory hyperbole is an Apple-wide problem). Didn't recognize the limits of his abilities - "I always loved design" but Apple had superior expertise in design not in the software function. Seems like he had an amazing relationship with Jobs.
He chose that design language because it was relatable and easy to understand; and to many, fun and enjoyable to use. I have tested this theory before with my grandmother. I handed her a modern iPad and told her to do a few simple tasks and she managed to get lost immediately. I handed her an iPad running iOS 6, with Forstall's UI and she immediately understood it like it was second nature; and it was not because she figured it out on the newer iPad, I gave her the old one so she could figure out how to do the tasks, because she was lost on the modern UI. Visual cues play a massive part in design, especially with UI/UX and modern flat designs lack these for reasons that are beyond my comprehension.
Everyone tried to justify the iOS 7 redesign, saying things like, "Everyone knows how to use their device now." What about newer generations? What about people that have never used an iPhone? What about older generations that have resisted trying smart devices for ages? It crippled the approachability of iOS that Forstall mentioned numerous times. Not everyone liked the visual design of legacy iOS, even Forstall admitted he wasn't a fan of some of the designs they made, but that isn't the point. The point was, keep it simple stupid.
If you judge Forstall's design teams for the visual appeal alone, you have completely missed the point in favor of a subjective preference. You are correct that the designs were not perfect, but the approachability and ease of use provided by legacy iOS is unmatched by any modern mobile UI, including iOS 16 and 17.
i wish he'd go into the story about how Apple bought Fingerworks and took their multi-touch technology just because someone knew a person who had a fingerworks pad b/c she had a wrist injury and couldn't type. Steve Job flat out LIED when he said "we have invented a technology called multi-touch" at the iPhone launch.
But that was true, he said “we” as in the people at Apple including those who came from Fingerworks. Though they did change a lot from that original technology, like making the touch surface a display and having it react with fluidity, making it feel much more intuitive for the average person. The original fingerworks technology was not that intuitive.
why didn't the acupuncturist save Steve Jobs from cancer?
Those are two different things. I'm sure they must have tried it. It's just a shot in the dark. When a person is dying, the people near them, their friends, family .. they try everything and anything to save his/her life. In scott's case it worked, no one knows how but it's irrelevant. I don't know if you were trying to mock through this comment.
Acupuncture and Chinese medicine has saved my wife too
〽️.
These days Apple is just like McDonald's, big but boring and slowly dying.
Apple is the fist trillion dollar company in the US
Lmao Apple isn’t dying
@@memethanYT Not yet
big ol head she gotta BIG BIG ol forehead
So many boomers in this comment section talking about the good old days when he was at Apple and should return, look how amazing Apple is today and he hasn’t done a single thing to it since iOS 7. I think his departure was for better and it’s easy to hate on Tim Cook and Apple for the pricing but like if your complaining about how pricy the phones are and the specs are low, you just don’t understand tech. Samsung’s are more expensive then iPhones. iPhones don’t need 16gb of ram because iOS is very well optimized for the hardware so it doesn’t need crazy specs. Scott forstall made Apple maps the embarrassment of what it was and refused to apologize for it and tried to say it was ok because Steve jobs never said sorry for attenagate. Tim Cook has helped and made Apple the great company it is today and no I’m not an Apple sheep, I have used androids in the past.
It is sad to see you don’t know how to express your opinion without insulting a group of people about their age. Try again.
@@AD-ky5ci boomers are the worst. I support this ageism in this context.
Boomers always have this stupid nostalgia about "the good old days" when things were actually worse.
1h waste of Time not a Word about Kick out