The Most Controversial Watch Ever Made | Watchfinder & Co.
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- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2019
- What should have been a momentous day for Bremont, the launch of both a watch with an actual piece of the Wright brothers’ Wright Flyer and the brand’s first in-house movement, turned sour after it was revealed that the calibre BWC/01 was not, after all, in-house. This is the story of how the Wright Flyer became the most controversial watch ever, and what that means not just for Bremont, but for the industry as well.
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Not a huge Bremont fan, but I do love the rotor on this watch. The incorporation of the Wright Flyer fragment is a neat touch.
Agree on that.
Their rotor game is usually on great
what if it is a scam likethe movmnt?
And charging a $10k premium for that piece of cloth.
@@gyang333 To be honest, that doesn't even seem too excessive. It's a nice design, classy and understated. If I'm ever in the position to extend my lowly watch collection to higher end bs marketing watches, this will surely be on the list :-)
It's mind-boggling that 66 years after the Wright brothers man was walking on the moon .20th century was a remarkable one in every way
I swear you guys could make a video about a store brand block of cheese mesmerizing.
or a jar of cheez whiz
I like cheese. More than bremont.
"...better best not peel back too many layers...." Love it.
At 4:40 Watchfinder once again proves they are the best at closeups!
Andreas23OK Actually second to Horology House.
If you watch these videos on any type of HD screen, they are not really close.
I like the way it blurred too.👍
That refocus thru the jewel was amazing!
This is obviously an Out house movement.
lol
Good one.
This must be the best watch related channel in RUclips. Thanks for the stories you bring to us!
I thought I saw one of those Bremont fellows hanging from the ceiling of the Smithsonian with a knife, taking shavings from the craft. More daring than the featured watch.
Awesome imagery , very well narrated and a must see every Wednesday and Friday.
Lovely and very informative video as always especially for an unknown brand (at least to me).
Please review the titanium/platinum limited edition AP with blue on grey dial from 2017 🙏🏻
That is a beautiful watch nevertheless. I am thankful to Japanese watchmaker's to allow people like me to buy and collect automatic watches without spending an arm and a leg.
The base LaJoux Perret is also not fully original. It's based on a Valjoux and the chronograph removed. LJP puts their own bidirectional winding setup in the leftover space. The De-chronographed Valjoux is quite a popular base for other "in-house" movements. Habring2, Demasko, are two notables.
The Valjoux 'tells' are the zig-zag jewel train, and the pair of uncentered screws on the ratchet wheel.
Great info, will be looking into this some more, thanks!
Soprod does this too for certain panerais, but in that instance Panerai is at least honest about it! But theres only so many ways to make gears and springs tell time, and theres no point in reinventing the wheel. The nomos alpha is based off (and by based i mean they ape the design since the patent expired) a pesaux 7001 for instance. The argument could be made they dont really charge in house money for it, even though they manufacture it.
@@goldendawn7 Yeah, the 7001 is another favourite of LJP. The 90h PR ultrathins available in Arnold and Son, Baume et Mercier, and Hublot are all 7001 bases with an extra barrel. LJP also reorganized the 7001 components into a tonneau shape with offset small seconds. It's an interesting business when you cut through the marketing ... stretching... the truth.
I like the brand, and the aspiration, the pricing isn’t right, but it’s not a volume brand, and it’s tough to climb down to where 2nd hand prices are.
I wear a Solo everyday as I like its simplicity, and I want an MBII and I have more time for Nick and Giles approach than Rolex’s tricks to limit supply,
Superb commentary. Interesting watch n the history warped into it, could listen to you all day.
I don't care what any "purist" says....that could be a Sea Gull movement as far as I'm concerned....The fact it has a piece of the Wright Flyer in the rotor is absolutely amazing and an Arnold&Son movement is beyond outstanding in my book. I don't care what company owns who or who actually put the thing together, this thing is a serious slice of HISTORY!
You need to do some research on where that piece of fabric came from. It is relatively safe to say that it belonged to the Wright family, but beyond that, there are a lot of questions.
@@GradyPhilpott all research I conducted stated it came from a bottom portion of the wing with the consent of the Wright family. I'd like to be shown otherwise.
A Bremont doesn’t make my heart beat faster. Certainly not at that price tag..
"In-house" seems to me an odd criterion for evaluating watches. Quality can be assessed independently of that.
Quality for sure, the Heritage not ;D
Its not about the quality, its about the lying.
@@alexandermarquardt597 Everybody is lying , car companies , PC companies , medicine companies ...and we don't know it , until something reveals that .
So take it easy , It is a beautiful watch , and if that is real Wright airplane bits , then it is worth it, if true
I might have missed the point, but... on what basis DID Bremont make the "in-house" claim?
In-house isn't a water tight test of quality, certainly, but for desirability, it shows a watch maker's commitment to the art and craft. There's a gentleman in my town that makes wooden pendulum clocks (hand-carved wooden gears, handmade granite weights, etc) and charges over 5,000 for each piece. The gears, on moderately close inspection, are very clearly hand carved with very inconsistent tooth profile and depth and I'm sure it's not exactly "chronometer" spec, but what it IS is a beautiful piece of art in it's own right. 5 grand is a bit much in my opinion, but I would love to buy one of his clocks because he made it all himself and I get to inspect and see the evidence of his hard work and passion in each little inaccuracy and flaw. :)
@@jamestouchette859 the press release they sent out claimed it was in-house. And had it on the website that it's in-house. They were caught cold-handed with the lie.
4:39 - love the timing and the camerawork on that "blurred" jewel shot :-)
Panerai PAM 318 Special Edition "Brooklyn Bridge". Is that perhaps even a bigger scandal?
Audun Dragland it's probably worse because of reach and brand damage due to Panerai being a bigger company. But one company dropped in a base movement behind a sealed caseback and the other company out-right lied about their product.
Love it as always! I‘d love to see a video covering the watches of Philippe Dufour! This man is a living legend.
I swear, not only is this my favorite RUclips channel, but I could listen to you read the phone book.
Worst then the Brooklyn Bridge debacle ?
As always, great video. Very elegantly explained!
Really like that watch. And that shot through the ruby.... bravo. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
A "hair under £18,000" for a Bremont? Er, no. No Thank you.
but it has in-house mvmnt.....!
@@anonymousonlineuser6543 I had a movement in the house this morning - not sure it has any value 😄
@Alysandir " An in-house movement is just the latest fad for people to justify why their watch is "better."" well, your opinion, for WISs it is different and no matter if the inhouse is Seiko, Myota, ETA or Patek, it is just the fact that the manufacturer is able to produce movement.
Can't say the whole "in house" thing bothers me one way or another, quality is quality whoever makes it! Sweet watch, love the idea of a part of the Wright flyer in it. Cheers 👍👍
I find it quite distasteful to be cutting up history like that to just place a small fragment in a watch. How much canvas did they acquire? How and where from?
Indeed. If one is paying for the provenance of a bit of fabric, then it must be reliably proven.
Agreed, I think it's tacky
I know this is a year-old comment but I'm here to clarify:
the wright brothers themselves had to repair their airplane due to it taking damage before sending it to the museum. Orville stored the original damaged parts that had to be replaced.
eventually, those damaged parts of the flyer entered the market, and bremont bought them.
so no, nobody 'cut up' the flyer to make these watches
The horizontal propeller on the crown when fully screwed down is a nice touch. Other brands should take note!
Great video Watchfinder!
Cut-off numerals is instant no for me..
Exellent. Informative and entertaining.
Great vid. You could do a similar story about the Panerai 318 Brooklyn Bridge limited edition
Interesting story,wonderfully told and elabore-ated☘
"and so when the watch community at large discovered that Bremont had called it 'in house', well...They went apeshit."
My "ETA inside" watch is an accuracy monster! I don't know how much more accurate I could expect a watch to be, short of atomic accuracy.
Toyotas are more reliable than Bugattis. Perhaps there is more to the mechanics of a watch than just its accuracy. However I agree etas do seem to keep more accurate time over the life of the movement than any other.
Errr how about literally any quartz
I'm never going to be able to afford a watch like this, but I really like the styling of the hands. It's quirky without being totally out there and having an actual piece of the White Brothers plane as part of the watch is amazing. And as high end watches go. It's a good price.
When you can't add real value, bring the bling!
I thought it was a Vostok K-43 Classic on the thumbnail. They sell for around $110
The voice of breathy boy is pure affectation. It grates on my sensibilities but it seems fitting to recount the mock heroic story of those English boys. And of course it complements the monumental folly and pretence of the watch perfectly.
Excellent Video
Please review BALL watches. I am quite intrigue by their design. They will be introducing in house movements with 80 hours power reserve and 80k anti magnet I think.
udin737 and using 904l steel like Rolex
I like their watches with the luminescent tubes
Check out the Ball Engineer Pioneer lll. 40mm, 904l steel, 100 metre water resistance, sapphire crystal, 1000 Gauss and all for £1700. Blood6 good bargain I’d say
They’re tough understated watches worth anyone’s time however I personally don’t feel Ball bring anything much to the table at their price point. I would talk some one out of buying an Oris in favour of a Ball but that’s about it.
ray h. Watchfinder has a video on Ball Engineer II Diver, can’t recall the exact title of the video
Is there clarification that the section of muslin in the watch is from the aircraft that flew that day ? or as I remember reading somewhere, its a piece that had been previously fitted to the AC before the first flight ?
They should have called it a 'town house' movement.
Watchfinder: please, what is the music in this video! I've been looking for years!
And you will continue looking for it for years! Lol
For £18,000 that piece of cloth must be the shroud of Turin.
G. Confa 🤣
It’s been two years since this video, and eight years since the Wright Flyer debacle, and Bremont has still not recovered. Their disasterous Hodinkee damage control interview where they feigned ignorance at what “in-house” meant, was the inspiration for Prince Andrew’s similarly disasterous “I can’t sweat” interview years later
That’s a beautiful watch! Overpriced definitely, but it looks great. Amazing video quality and photography too, as always :)
£18000, if the bought in movement cost £5000+ it maybe worth it, if more likely it cost less than a £1000 then it is a rip-off, unless the Wright flyer fragmment cost thousands.
That LJP movement is probably in the $500 USD range.
Wright flyer fragment? Bargain? It reminds me of these salesmen that try to sell u the tap water for 100s claiming it from holy place and very powerful. If economy bursts again like in 2008, this thing will be selling for 10th of its price
Where in the USA can you purchase one? And how much 💲❓
Bremont have a shop next door to Watchfinder at the Royal Exchange luxury shopping mall at St Paul London, is this a well executed sinister plan by Watchfinder? Personally I would not buy Bremont at such price point when there are brands with better heritage and craftsmanship.
Anyone know the name of the background music?
On the watchfinder site Bremont's watches are around 3-4 k but the one in the video is almost 13k. Is it because it's a limited edition?
I don’t mind Bremont, they do make some outstanding watches no doubt.
This one looks superb, especially with the fragment of the original Wright bros plane.
This makes it a very unique piece indeed. Arguably a better buy at around £18k than a gold Omega or Brietling say ?
I really want to like Bremont, but it’s a struggle. What they’ve achieved in a relatively short time is very impressive. And it would be great to see a British watchmaker making a serious mark on the horological world stage. But somehow there seems to be something a bit too smooth, too glib, about the way they market themselves and their pieces. The brand seems a bit contrived, as do some of their watches, and the ‘in house’ movement debacle was obviously a blow to their credibility. Anyway, cracking video, as usual.
Agreed, I got the exact same impression (after reviewing their uberslick website). It's all a bit too perfect and too made up. What they lack in heritage, they make up for in marketing bs. However, I can appreciate a well thought out concept, and this is very well thought out. I really like their designs and execution as well. It's almost a parody of high end Swiss watch making, but the prices are a bit too meaty for it to be a joke. For now I'll keep to my seagulls and seikos, an asian parody of sorts themselves :)
What do you think of the Rolex Yacht-Master 40 with a grey dial?
Love the rotor.
Am I the only one who think it’s a beautiful watch? 😂
How do you as a customer know for sure that is a genuine piece of the Wright Flyer? Since they already have a poor track record with truthfulness in regard to their movement, i'm not sure i'll buy into the Real Wright Flyer gimmick
The Wright relative that gave it to them also gave a bunch to other brands. It isn't the fabric from the actual plane, but spare or left overs that never flew. Shinola also got some, and made a Wright watch before Bremont.
Exactly! For that price, if they manage to sell just a few, they will likely pay off all the line production. Worth trying. I cant go wrong, asking for 10x my salary another employer if im already employed. Chances are that someone will pay more then im worth anyway
@@dimman77 Not really true. The plane's fabric has been changed several times, keeping the original frame. The off-cuts supplied to Bremont are (supposedly) from the original fabric now kept in storage.
@@sirbuftontufton5846 The story is this was "found in an attic". And it makes the rounds whenever Wright relatives are trying to raise money "to preserve Orville's house", which is another part of the whole shady story. The house that they grew up in and built the plane in has been a part of the Henry Ford museum for over half a century. The relatives are talking about a house that Orville lived in way after the events but always make it sound like the original one. They didn't have access to the original plane or materials. But one of them allegedly found it in an attic? Lol. They can't even tell you how much there is because they claim to be always giving some away in exchange for donations for the house. Everything about this watch and story are scammy. I mentioned elsewhere that Shinola was given a piece of the magic cloth too, a little 2inch-ish square. They made a (heavily press release spammed) presentation to the stuff to a museum. Bremont cut it into tiny pieces and sold it for obscene prices. Kinda says something about them, don't you think?
@@dimman77 I did a fair bit of research after my original post, and nothing like your "story" came up. Still, if you'd care to provide links to source material for your version of events I'd find it interesting. I have no skin in this game - bits of history inside watches do nothing for me personally. Accusations of fraud, on the other hand, interest me greatly.
I must know the name for the BGM track! It’s just epic
I swear ur content is so amazing that sometimes I forget I'm watching just a video or a documentary!!!! Supa Like for ur content!!!! Big Fan for the history and facts shared!!!!
that rotor is over the top!!! the fragment and the prop = 👍👍👍.
would be very cool if the hands were props.
Beautiful watch! What is the price?
4:39 Master shot... well done!!!!
Good video!
£18k? I don't think so (for what you get).
The Wright Flyer fragment on its own is already worth that. I'd buy the watch just because of it.
Zonda you’re a wealthy man that has £18k to spend on a watch! (The average wage in the UK is about £26k).
@@pandora8478 As of February 2019 the average wage is a shade over £35,000
Hi..would love if you can review Akrivia; maybe AK-06 or Chronometre Contemporain.😄
For the money I would prefer to own a Grand Seiko with a superior pedigree.
There's a "I would get a GS instead" in every single comment section of this channel.
It seems like all the comments are "Id rather own a Grand Seiko" and not "I own a Grand Seiko." If you dont actually own a Grand Seiko, shut up. Theyre $3000. Easily accessible for any adult watch fan.
@jake then shut up. No one wants to hear about how great Grand Seiko is and how bad Hublot is from a bunch of trolls who have no skin in the game. Walking around with their $200 Orient Bambinos and shit snotty opinions on matters they dont have ANY real life experience with. It's one thing to be a pretentious snot. It's another to be a pretentious snot and not even own the brands they're championing.
If you're not prepared to save up a measly $3000 for an entry level luxury watch, then stop commenting. Stop talking about Grand Seiko, Rolex, Hublot, IWC. You're not a real watch fan and your shit, condescending opinions dont matter. Im tired of broke losers being the loudest, most obnoxious on these forums.
@jake and btw, just to be clear, the classless ones are these window shopper douchebags praising Grand Seiko and Rolex on social media and shitting on other watches theyll never even see in real life let alone ever own. They're the tasteless, classless, broke losers, who have ZERO authority to speak.
@jake you need to go back to school and learn to read. Im not an elitist. I am CRITICIZING pretentious Grand Seiko elitist, 99% of whom dont even own a Grand Seiko. But still go around watch forums knocking on anything with an ETA base regardless craftsmanship of the watch as a whole. Why?? Cause theyve never held a Hublot. They never held an IWC. They never held a Breitling or a Tag Monaco. Or a Cartier. They don't fucking know. They don't know a fucking thing. They dont own any of these things, they've never even seen them in real life, only on their pathetic Instagram accounts. Theyve never dealt with Seiko's shit Service Center either, the worst watch servicing in the market.
But they stand on their high horse, probably wearing a dog shit Orient or some 3rd hand Speedmaster that's 20 years overdo on a real service, extolling the virtues of watches they dont dream of owning. Like trashing the $18,000 one in this video. THAT is elitist. They're not even watch snobs. They're FAKE watch snobs, the bottom of barrel.
Bremont Belle End is an overlooked timepiece
Seiko ❤️
In house.
Affordable.
The same went for hmt until they died. :(
Amazing watch... however the price is just too too much
4:40 just WOW!!
You would have to be MAD to pay this much for this watch, totally off the wall nuts.
Beautiful Bremont pilot watch, I like the dial and the second at the 9 position, I like the big crown and like the display case back showing the movement with a plane propeller. I don't understand why developing a three hands watch movement cost $1 million when a watch movement made of gears and spring is less complicated then a car engine.
I saw that watch with Concord pieces into the movement and the price ? 18k !! They need to tone it down
Raymond Redington I’m guessing you looked at the white gold version?
@@ashleyj4827 yeah it was , still 18 k?
Awesome looking watch.
Everything about the English brothers seems fishy. From their landing in Mr. Bremont field to deals with the Military seems dodgy at best. Instead of selling themselves as a watchlover’s watch, they have their marketing strategy completely wrong. The English brothers need to take a step back and let watch men run the company... oh, and it I mention their prices are massively too high?
I am just waiting now until it turns out that the brothers aren't even English 😂
The real story is far more tragic and worthy of note. Nick and his father were involved in a plane crash. Nick was seriously injured and his father was killed. Do you homework before you defame
Easy Simon. We are just saying, there’s something phony about the brothers. That’s my only point. I’m not sure they are in it for the love.
André apple copied - and even lifted code - from Microsoft. Go figure
C J did you actually read my response.
As always, great video. The story about the formation of Bremont is not quite as you tell it. It’s beginnings are born out of a real tragedy. Possibly a slight disservice to Nick and Giles to glibly tell a story about them being forced to land a biplane in a French field. Look it up.
I tease myself asking if, like in coins collectionism where a flaw, due to a printing error for istance, enhance its value, also watches can be valued as more rare and perhaps unique for something as deplorable as an invalid "inhouse movement" declaration. I may be naive, but as someone whose not that fan of Bremont, I'd love to hear the story of how this collection piece has originally the feature of "inhouse movement", and after looking better it received reproaches and almost made scandal, but that in the end it became a singular story capable of enriching its value. It has a very good looking style and I love the rotor in its back. Let's forget this unlucky event.
Just wondering if the same goes for Tudor's "in house movement" seeing as it was developed by Breitling .
Since one can get a B01 for a fraction of a Breitling, i don't think anybody cares 😂
santrade10 Developed and produced by Breitling ready for casing. And vice versa for the Tudor movement Breitling uses in the Suoerocean Heritage II - produces by Tudor for Breitling ready to case. I think in the future we see more of that after Kenissi starts producing Chanel, Tudor, Breitling and more movements.
While the movement is in-house from Arnold & Son, the dial design was ripped off in-house by Bremont from A. Lange & Söhne 😂
What about Hublots original Big Bang, with the ETA 7750 calibre selling for £££££
No cares you're "getting annoyed", if you dont like it dont buy it (which you obviously cant even afford to anyhow). The 7750 is a perfectly good movement and no, your shit $700 microbrand that has a 7750 is not the same total package. But anyhow, no one cares you're "annoyed." Youre not even a participant in any of this just another dumb spectator.
@@MrAhuraMazda I think at least 15 people do
@@ingra888 or Hublots sellita based watches selling for $7k!
If IWC is so proud of how they modify 2892s and 7750s why aren't they more transparent about what exactly they do to modify them? An IWC branded rotor is not enough for the premium.
I love your voice, I also think you did some training...the skillful way in which you present all those stories and anecdotes....I could listen for ages
Love the video, not keen on the watch, or the brand, even more so after watching this.
If they lie about the origins of the movement, how do we know they don’t lie about this piece of material?
See my reply above.
Nick P. Exactly what I was thinking
@Spartan Nation yes and I am an alien from the sun. The Soviets them selves tracked the missions with their technology and confirmed that. If anyone in the world would be the first to prove the us the liar it would be the Soviet union. Not to mention the many mission of other countries such as japan , India and *china* the country that would also love to prove the us wrong proved in their missions that the landing indeed happen. Notice how I never gave information taken from the us but from other countries and there are more these are just few examples. The next thing you tell me is the earth is flat.
Nick P. Because they didn’t. Do your homework.
Simon Howson-Green I am not interested enough in this watch (nor financially capable of buying it) to spend more of my time on it.
Am I just a silly novice for loving my Concords so much? I have 2 Impresarios...one the manual power reserve, the other the Monster with Zenith engine. My daily is a gen 2 Saratoga and also have the newest Saratoga plus a gen1 Saratoga Diver in Yellow. Never see reviews on these pieces. Your take?
Hold up... That shot through the jewel was god damn amazing.
What is the significance of the still camera.
My eyes all ways lean towards it for a few seconds before I stare at the fabulous watch on show!
Very interesting !
Amazing history and watch.
I should also add hands down the best watch videos anywhere! Fantastic
Rolex explorer 214270. Can see the explorer 2 but would be good to have your video/commentary on it!
They do have a fantastic logo. It's a very pretty watch. Who knows, might be a collectors item with this story
This guy could sell me a heater in the dead of summer in the tropics of the Philippines.....
Not for 18k though?
I’m glad it happened… Because it’s caused them to move forward in their plans and produce the new 80/90 % in house movements they have for 2022/23 and get even closer to grail of manufacturing a fully ‘in house’ and cost affective British movement for the first time in 60 years in this country… very exciting times!
I attended a jeweller/watch seller were this watch was on show. It is a nice watch, however I informed the sales assistant what had happened with the watch on debut, however she took umbrage and went away to get the stores owner. When he arrived I explained to him that I wasn't taking fault with it saying I'd rather have a watches "engine room" made by a recognised movement maker than what can only be described as an experiment timepiece which may or may not be a success! I also asked him how are the sales going? He admitted the sales girl was not really experienced with high end watches and after the story came out amongst watch aficionados sales fell off and where still slow. Asked did the public know how good LaJou.Perret movement are...he replied in the negative. I did make him an offer for it which he refused. Last time I went past the shop the watch is still on show.
For £18,000 I think my personal favorite would be a JLC. This is a pretty watch, but it’s just priced too highly.
There's no chance in hell that's actually a piece of THE Wright Flyer. Maybe a Wright plane but not the one they made their first flight with. I'm pretty sure the Smithsonian would have noticed if someone had cut a chunk of fabric off the wing.
Good story and a wonderful achievement in workmanship.
I would really like to see a video about watches as an investment.
Which brands and models should we look for, and which are the ones to avoid?
@@robinarman7300 Audemars Piquet probably as well then?
I'd like to see a enicar watch reviewed plssss🙏🙏🙏
@ray h. Yes because i just bought one here in saudi arabia i just want to know if it worth the buy ☺️☺️☺️
Two things irk me about Bremont, firstly although the watches are undoubtably of a good quality, there is far too much emphasis placed on selling them ‘as a piece of British history’...putting a bit of Concord/Spitfire/Wright into the watch infers the watch is both historical and British which which clearly isn’t true, further to that the factory in its new incarnation is placed in one of the most expensive areas in England, if it were to be re-located up North and the prices dropped accordingly then they would be more competitive against stiffJapanese/Swiss competition.