Fantastic series of videos. This gives a unique insight in the effect of various treatments. I have not found anything like this on youtube. Really appreciated!
Ron… ❤ You know this and have read it before… But you have created content of high value in a way that people get better understanding on their own paths. Deep respect for the time involved. The job involved is massive and I know I could deliver a paid corporate 1 hr informationfilm filmed at several locations for the time put down. Most respect for you sharing knowledge and personal mistakes in a pedagogical way. You make RUclips better… and you understand what the viewer actually wants…
Morning Folks! Here are the time stamps for your convenience. 00:00 Start 01:27 Video Concept 02:22 The Elephant 03:10 Better Traps 05:03 Segment One: Bass Trap Demos 05:09 Demo: The Human Voice 07:04 Demo: Noise Control 06:08 Demo: Decay and Reverb 06:59 Demo: Noise Control 07:32 Demo: Ported Speakers 13:33 Demo: Open Baffle Speakers 19:33 Segment Two: Measuring Bass Traps 23:32 Intermission 25:30 Segment Three: Ceiling Cloud Demos 25:36 Demo: The Human Voice 26:30 Demo: Decay and Reverb 27:25 Demo: Ported Speaker 33:26 Demo: Open Baffle Speaker 39:27 Segment 4: Measuring The Clouds 43:02 Segment 5: DIY Bass Trap Bench Demos 43:08 Demo: The Human Voice 44:05 Demo: Decay and Reverb 44:55 Demo: Ported Speaker 50:56 Demo: Open Baffle Speaker 57:00 Segment 5: Measuring The Benches 58:40 Final Thoughts and Next Up?
Without the bass absorption, the sound is scattered, uncontrolled and chaotic. Notes are clashing, Highs are harsh mids are muddy and gargle, lows are spotty. With them in, especially on the heavily instrumental songs, you can actually hear the instruments used, not just a bunch of noise. Everything is so clean and precise. It's centered and brings out the best in the music.
God I hated the sound of those open baffle speakers... amazing video great demo! (Different strokes for different folks) Love your videos! AMAZING SKILLS! This is what people need to hear/watch/listen and lastly see...b/c we don't hear with our eyes? Or DO WE? BUM BAH BUMMMMMMMMM................................................................
I really started to get too self absorbed watching this video. My head was in the clouds and everything just become diffused to me. I just have to escape these trappings
@@Newrecordday2013 It was a good video. I’ve been inspired to spend my listening $$$ on researching my listening room & obtaining treatments as appropriate. Already ordered a microphone. Good work, thank you.
Wow that was a valiant effort. A huge undertaking and a well appreciated one at that. Great work Ron as always. I hope all your listeners had their head phones on. The progress was audibly obvious. I would bet another set of "bench type" absorbers placed directly above the benches in the top corners where the wall meets the ceiling would take things a even step further, maybe made in a long triangle fashion. I would bet they compliment the clouds.
I have to face the reality that the only way I will ever be happy with an audio system is if some wealthy guy reads this and then comes over with a hundred grand worth of equipment for me to keep and says "stop complaining about audio prices on youtube." ... WELL ??
A big nice room like this is wonderful, yet a double edged sword. It's physical size really gobbles up traditional treatment quantities for typical room sizes.
Another amazing entry into the series! I've been anxiously awaiting this one and it didn't disappoint, thank you so much for all the work that went into demonstrating these changes in a methodical way.
46:00 I heard a major difference with the low guitar plucks. It completely changed the sound, it was so audible to the point where if I was making a song I'd eq and remove reverb from the guitar in an untreated room, in return ruining how it sounds in a TREATED room. Such an amazing video you've done.
I thought it was incredible the clarity you got with just the bass traps, then the clouds? WOW, just a massive and enjoyable difference. Excellent work, and this is very inspiring for my planned studio. Is there a playlist for the reference music tracks so we can listen to them on our current monitoring setup?
@barrettabney bass doesn't care about thick plastics, most of the time, bass doesn't even care about drywall/concrete/car materials and go right through
Why did you used as reference 54.7 dB before traps and 40.2 dB with the bass traps? I don’t think that is ok. And room resonance at very low frequencies doesn’t look to be much influenced by the bass traps.
I never realised how much you're hearing the room when you play audio. The closer the audio sounds to the original playback when recorded by a microphone the better your room!
Awesome video, thanks so much.. I'd love bass traps in the corners but I have a radiator in one corner, so I couldn't run a full length trap. Would running a 2/3's trap from the ceiling down on both sides be worth it do you think?
Thank you very much for your work. What have I learnt from it? First of all, a passion for a hobby. Furthermore, that it is definitely worth spending money on the right room acoustics before investing too much money in technology. 😊
The realities of domestic life have a habit of getting in the way - even those among us who could afford the costs of materials to reasonably treat our listening spaces don’t always have the freedom dedicate them for that sole purpose - but yeah, this has been a fabulously well conceived and executed journey so far. Can’t wait for the subsequent chapters.
It amazed me how much the reverb times were reduced high in the freq range when you installed the benches. Control the boomy bass and everything improves, I guess?
I can not find to buy the pure version of the Loving Caliber “You Set my World on Fire. I’m looking for the non Rogan Gold Remix - the one you used in the video.
Superb patient, scientific, thorough analysis and resolution of acoustic issues! Completely expect you'd use the same segments of the same tracks each time, for the most accurate comparisons between changes. I'm afraid those songs are burned into my consciousness now though, for better or worse!
It pulled out too much of the life of the music. While it certainly tightened up the real heavy bass tracks, for more normal tracks it took away some of the realism. You could hear it in your voice, some of the natural depth vanished. It was the same in some of the more vocal tracks, imo.
Thanks for the video and attention to detail, Ron! Can you say if the different room treatment components impact box speakers more/less than open baffles?
But every step up to that one I thought really made a nice improvement. I also listened to the diffusion video and thought that was a nice improvement as well.
Why the weird speaker placement in the middle of the room? Makes sense for open baffle but... What are the ideas behind the the layout? Listening position? Speaker placement? Relative to walls and room dimensions. Correct listening triangle used? Approx. 45 degrees. = listening position 1,18 x distance between center of the speakers.
@@matt34003434So what's the whole point of the microphone head? For the record, the speakers that came after that were not boomy. Another wrong determination?
Hi, I notice that on your waterfall, the SPL scale is between ~45 and 105. For the Decay chart you used between ~30 and 85. What is the lower part of the scale to be used on this type of analysis? Is it based on the room noise floor? Thanks for your guidance.
Good question, for the decay, I probably should have changed my window setting a little higher, like 40-100. You nailed it already, anything below that - in the 30s or below is really just low level noise floor. Don’t focus a lot on that as you will notice it changes a lot… better to focus on what remains more consistent, which is totally 40db and higher.
I would like to hear the clouds alone, verses an empty room. Then the benches verses an empty room. The point is to see which pieces make the best starting point. Last, clouds and benches verses adding corners. At some point the room started to die for me. To much had been done, which started to deaden the room for me. To hear everything without the corners verses adding corners would be appreciated. Hey you started this. That would make your videos perfect. Also benches and corners without clouds. Great Job, I actually learned how to hear and understand decay. I'm not an audiophile, I'm not an audiophile, I'm not an audiophile, ahhhhh.
Thanks for such an amazing high quality series! Gives me some confidence and inspiration to send it with my home office, seeing how amazing the results are. And shout out acoustic insider, its cool to see the philosophy implemented
Thanks Ron for taking the effort to this great video. One question if you dont mind. May I know those 5 pieces cloud placing above those speakers or sitting position or evenly through out the listening room? Thank you.
Yes, correct. I have 6 of them in line spread out evenly on the sides of the shed. The other 2 are located above my head and one just behind me where the entrance of the shed is.
The corner traps is very impressive and what I pretty much expected but the results with the benches blew my mind. Am I correct in thinking the side of the benches facing the room is covered with plywood?
Those video series are FAR THE BEST ACOUSTIC TREATMENT VIDEO AVAILABLE in youtube rigt now! Please please also make a video about designing bass traps or diffusers tuned for a certain room with the same detail. Thank you.
Ron, after as careful listening as I could undertake with my cheapie Sennheiser HD440s, my take away from this session was a better understanding of your affection for the Sapphires. I’ve experimented with a few dipole ESL and DIY dynamic OBs over my 60yrs afflicted with this addiction, and this reinforces my opinion that for that general topology of speaker, room symmetry and appropriate acoustic treatments are essential. In other words, they’ve never worked for me because of the rooms available. For those SPGEA (self proclaimed golden eared audiophiles) who assert that You Tube sound clips can’t tell you anything, your protocol should put that to rest. Of course while the carefully curated playlist and use of binaural dummy head mic clearly demonstrates the improvements at each step, they can’t reveal what any particular speaker will sound like in different rooms. Nicely done, and I’m eager awaiting the next chapter.
Wow...As they say, POWER is nothing without CONTROL. Amazing how much better the girls voice was with the clouds fitted, this is the first time I've truly understood what SOUNDSTAGE is all about.
Perhaps truer than you intend with your comment. Familiar with the happening where you turn the stereo up because it sounds so good and you want to rock out more... and the sound turns to utter shitte..? Assuming proper gear etc. then that is the sound of the room overloading and the sound freaking out as a result. In a well treated room with excellent bass management you can turn it up considerably more without the room overloading and the sound turning shitte.
Sounds like a highly nuanced balancing act, with the holy grail of systems leading down the road to Nirvana (Preferable turned up to 11?) lol. The one thing I can't listen to is a bad system, it's tiring after an hour, and the three worst things for me are muddy bass missing mid's and tinny top end. Drives (No pun intended honest :) ) me round the bend. The guys have helped me understand so many things in such a complicated subject. I know some people have trouble watching these kind of technical videos, but I find them fascinating :)@@bayard1332
Cool video! One possible improvement: When you show the audio examples with and without clouds, switch during the playtime several times. Scientifically proven we only have a really really short span to remember correctly when judging audio.
This was a huge effort on your part, Thank you. I am always amazed how much bass absorption helps sibilance. One thing, I think your major issue bass wise is at 27Hz, it shows up as a huge null in your graphs which means that there is a corresponding peak elsewhere in the room. If you took care of that (I know, good luck with that...), it should also take care of the null at 55Hz and probably help smooth out that 40Hz peak.
The benches do help produce a bit cleaner overall, but I begin to see what they mean about EQ, you can do something about the peaks, but not the valleys. In other words, smoothing the signal involves dampening the signal as well. I’ve listened to three videos in a row, and I must get on to other things today, but you’ve definitely helped me. You’ve given me the courage to fire up REW again for the first (hopefully productive) time.
Quicker switching between treated and untreated sound clips, back and forth, would be more useful. Audio memory sucks, listening for a few seconds back and forth to the exact same section of music would be even more elucidating.
Wow one of the best videos ever!!!! A true demonstration of "your speakers are as good as your room". The difference with each change is outstanding and very noticeable. Would most room issues go away if we were to listen near field? Like speakers 1 foot away or less? Not practical in most cases however...
Thanks for this excellent series. I'm hoping that in the upcoming video(s) you will also include some discussion of the actual room furniture, that is, the seat or seats or couch where the listener(s) sit to experience the music. Obviously different seat materials will reflect and / or absorb sound differently, the size of the seats will have an effect, etc. We're getting further and further into the subtleties here, so perhaps some mention of the seating would not be amiss. Again, thanks!
Interesting video. Binaural record is also helping. Regarding bass management of room modes, tuned absorption will probably do more than porous absorber.
Yeah the Corner bass traps look quite snazzy I'm digging it. I would say you have it wider and deeper 6 in deep and two and a half feet across that looks about two feet yours. What frequencies do they work at? Research into acoustic treatment has been found to tilt it's out near the top quite a way about 12 inches, measuring about 3 ft from the ceiling you'll get better response that way. Plus keep the backs open not boarded and lying on the wall with an inch of natural sheep's wool fleece, you can buy it in half inch thicknesses so double it up. You might want to try this it works really well and it's simple to put up one thing you want to concentrate on is that corner behind the speakers between the ceiling and the wall and round it off, I did this with bamboo of different thicknesses and bought it over the ceiling 9 ft into the room. Start about two feet down from the ceiling curving it out 14 in at the Apex between the ceiling and the wall, and then meeting up with the ceiling pieces. The only way I could fasten the bamboo strips is with two side pieces cut in the shape of the arc and drilled out holes of different sizes for the bamboo, wrap these end pieces of the bamboo with insulation tape so it's a snug fit in the holes and a strip of thin 6mm thick by 18cm plywood in the middle taking it shape, former's i call it, and these can be screwed into the wall. just make sure there's a little bit of a gap 4cm, from the one side of the wall on one of them so you can slid the bamboo in and out, I did attach some sheep's wall fleece to the back wall but lying loose on the bamboo for the ceiling. Easy to attach it to the ceiling I just put some eye hooks in the ceiling and strung up some fishing line three one in the middle and two another side 19cm from the ceiling and used pieces of foam as spaces between the bamboo, you want to keep these spaces different sizes some of them are 12mm between and others are 9cm gap between each other just make sure it's uniformed, make sure the bamboo goes across not vertical in your sitting listening position. Looks very nice actually it's a good feature I varnished them as well with a egg shell varnish.
My friend and I have sat on the couch with pillows held above our heads to simulate (kinda?) what ceiling panels in my room would do. It anchored the sound for sure. Now I just need to buy some Basoteck panels and get off my ass to do it.
Interesting video. Binaural record is also helping. Regarding bass management of room modes, tuned absorption will probably do more than porous absorber. It will be interesting to remove the rug…
Great great work and video. Wish this was around when I started my padded room. Just a thought. Do you have a video where you decide speaker and listening position in the Soundshed? I have seen your earlier video of speaker placement (that’s why I started following you in the first place) and I have seen Acoustic Insider where he puts one speaker in the corner to find listening position. Did you use that method in the soundshed? Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Best acoustic sound demo ever. I am sure this will get a lot of people onboard with room sound treatment as you just cannot get the same SQ improvement by throwing money at the gear itself.
The bass traps allowed the natural or generated reverb in the recording to come through where untreated masked that. And, holy crap, the ceiling clouds made a huge difference. Way more than I expected. Maybe the WAF will allow me to install those in my great room/listening room.
@@Newrecordday2013 base trap testing with accustic panels in all the proper places; such as behind the speakers, at primy reflection points, rear wall etc..
@@SimplestUsernameIt seemed pretty clear to me that Ron stated this is only one chapter of the journey, and that front / side and rear wall are to follow. I think gotta bet the bass and RT 60 tamed - which certainly qualifies as room treatment - as much as practical before further fine tuning. Stay tuned.
wow, great demo ,please upload videos how you are doing this step by step like science demo ,measuring instrument, software used and with various rooms, like living room ,demo room, normal home room etc.
It's getting there! Really looking forward to the next video and doing an A/B comparison between the more or less unfurnished room and the completely decked out room.
I’ll be honest, the biggest difference to me was between the speakers. The open baffle ones without bass traps sounded better than the ported ones with bass traps.
It's actually pretty neat, as using different kinds of speakers allows Ron to illustrate how room treatment will affect both kinds of speakers and how they both interact with the room. Then you can also add to that, a cabinet that is fairly resonant won't show as much improvement vs a well-braced box, or open-baffle speaker, as the speaker cabinet is still adding its own separate resonance or "bloom" to the sound, even after the room is accounted for.
Fantastic series of videos. This gives a unique insight in the effect of various treatments. I have not found anything like this on youtube. Really appreciated!
Ron… ❤ You know this and have read it before… But you have created content of high value in a way that people get better understanding on their own paths. Deep respect for the time involved. The job involved is massive and I know I could deliver a paid corporate 1 hr informationfilm filmed at several locations for the time put down. Most respect for you sharing knowledge and personal mistakes in a pedagogical way. You make RUclips better… and you understand what the viewer actually wants…
Morning Folks! Here are the time stamps for your convenience.
00:00 Start
01:27 Video Concept
02:22 The Elephant
03:10 Better Traps
05:03 Segment One: Bass Trap Demos
05:09 Demo: The Human Voice
07:04 Demo: Noise Control
06:08 Demo: Decay and Reverb
06:59 Demo: Noise Control
07:32 Demo: Ported Speakers
13:33 Demo: Open Baffle Speakers
19:33 Segment Two: Measuring Bass Traps
23:32 Intermission
25:30 Segment Three: Ceiling Cloud Demos
25:36 Demo: The Human Voice
26:30 Demo: Decay and Reverb
27:25 Demo: Ported Speaker
33:26 Demo: Open Baffle Speaker
39:27 Segment 4: Measuring The Clouds
43:02 Segment 5: DIY Bass Trap Bench Demos
43:08 Demo: The Human Voice
44:05 Demo: Decay and Reverb
44:55 Demo: Ported Speaker
50:56 Demo: Open Baffle Speaker
57:00 Segment 5: Measuring The Benches
58:40 Final Thoughts and Next Up?
Nice job Ron.
Without the bass absorption, the sound is scattered, uncontrolled and chaotic. Notes are clashing, Highs are harsh mids are muddy and gargle, lows are spotty. With them in, especially on the heavily instrumental songs, you can actually hear the instruments used, not just a bunch of noise. Everything is so clean and precise. It's centered and brings out the best in the music.
That’s correct
I've never seen someone take room acoustic so seriously. This was so enjoyable and pleasing to watch, honestly!
God I hated the sound of those open baffle speakers... amazing video great demo! (Different strokes for different folks) Love your videos! AMAZING SKILLS! This is what people need to hear/watch/listen and lastly see...b/c we don't hear with our eyes? Or DO WE? BUM BAH BUMMMMMMMMM................................................................
I really started to get too self absorbed watching this video. My head was in the clouds and everything just become diffused to me. I just have to escape these trappings
I see what you did there
NRD publishes ‘True Audiophile Test’: if you can get through this hour long video… you are one by definition.
Haha! So true!
Easy 😊
@@Newrecordday2013 It was a good video. I’ve been inspired to spend my listening $$$ on researching my listening room & obtaining treatments as appropriate. Already ordered a microphone.
Good work, thank you.
True that! To be honest, I think that all real audiophiles will cherish every word coming out of Rons Mouth on a important subject like this.
Huge fan of showing the whole process, but the one thing that I think is unforgivable - why would you trim fat off a brisket?
Hahaha fair
Wow that was a valiant effort. A huge undertaking and a well appreciated one at that. Great work Ron as always. I hope all your listeners had their head phones on. The progress was audibly obvious. I would bet another set of "bench type" absorbers placed directly above the benches in the top corners where the wall meets the ceiling would take things a even step further, maybe made in a long triangle fashion. I would bet they compliment the clouds.
Thank you kindly
I have to face the reality that the only way I will ever be happy with an audio system is if some wealthy guy reads this and then comes over with a hundred grand worth of equipment for me to keep and says "stop complaining about audio prices on youtube."
... WELL ??
every bit you added improved the sound, one of that bassy rock songs you played really is a mess without absorption.
Thank you for providing this video. It's easy to get caught up with too much absorption without measurement. Nice work on the shed!
With out the clouds it sounds like the hall setting on a surround receiver . lol
Thanks Ron! Maybe it's easier to get a dozen of cats or so for absorption.
Do you mind sharing the songs used?
LOL just did the Jesco treatment over the last 4 weeks in my small listening room. Yes, it really works!
He’s the best!
A big nice room like this is wonderful, yet a double edged sword.
It's physical size really gobbles up traditional treatment quantities for typical room sizes.
Another amazing entry into the series! I've been anxiously awaiting this one and it didn't disappoint, thank you so much for all the work that went into demonstrating these changes in a methodical way.
The open baffle speakers sound better to me overall in both the treated and untreated rooms. Treatments make a huge diffference!!
Thank you!
Love this Ron... So awesome to see this type of work being done an empty room start to finish. Keep it up... I'm learning a ton!!!
The boominess definitely goes away with the traps. The bass sounds much tighter and controlled.
46:00 I heard a major difference with the low guitar plucks. It completely changed the sound, it was so audible to the point where if I was making a song I'd eq and remove reverb from the guitar in an untreated room, in return ruining how it sounds in a TREATED room. Such an amazing video you've done.
I thought it was incredible the clarity you got with just the bass traps, then the clouds? WOW, just a massive and enjoyable difference. Excellent work, and this is very inspiring for my planned studio.
Is there a playlist for the reference music tracks so we can listen to them on our current monitoring setup?
Insane how much the bass traps improve the sound
I thought I saw him putting the Rockwool in plastic bags in the benches. How does thick plastic allow the wool to absorb acoustic energy? Strange.
@barrettabney bass doesn't care about thick plastics, most of the time, bass doesn't even care about drywall/concrete/car materials and go right through
Why did you used as reference 54.7 dB before traps and 40.2 dB with the bass traps? I don’t think that is ok. And room resonance at very low frequencies doesn’t look to be much influenced by the bass traps.
👍This is great! The effort and results are much appreciated. Thanks!
You're very welcome! Thank you!
I never realised how much you're hearing the room when you play audio. The closer the audio sounds to the original playback when recorded by a microphone the better your room!
Awesome video, thanks so much.. I'd love bass traps in the corners but I have a radiator in one corner, so I couldn't run a full length trap. Would running a 2/3's trap from the ceiling down on both sides be worth it do you think?
Thank you very much for your work. What have I learnt from it? First of all, a passion for a hobby. Furthermore, that it is definitely worth spending money on the right room acoustics before investing too much money in technology. 😊
Thanks Mike!
I'm so glad room acoustics has become broadly accepted in the audiophile world. Should have happened ten years ago but change is slow.
I think it's been broadly accepted for a long time, just rarely implemented.
The realities of domestic life have a habit of getting in the way - even those among us who could afford the costs of materials to reasonably treat our listening spaces don’t always have the freedom dedicate them for that sole purpose - but yeah, this has been a fabulously well conceived and executed journey so far. Can’t wait for the subsequent chapters.
Great video to demonstrate the before and after room acoustic treatments. What is the instruction name for the bass traps you built?
Here you go: www.acousticsinsider.com/bbt
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
It amazed me how much the reverb times were reduced high in the freq range when you installed the benches. Control the boomy bass and everything improves, I guess?
Bingo
I can not find to buy the pure version of the Loving Caliber “You Set my World on Fire. I’m looking for the non Rogan Gold Remix - the one you used in the video.
Superb patient, scientific, thorough analysis and resolution of acoustic issues! Completely expect you'd use the same segments of the same tracks each time, for the most accurate comparisons between changes. I'm afraid those songs are burned into my consciousness now though, for better or worse!
Luckily we close our eyes while listening 🙈
Gotcha! At 26 something you change cap/hat and the reverb got lower! Got to try it with a Cowboy hat or a Mexican sombrero hat 😊
Far more pleasing to listen to sound with the clouds. Without, it’s harsh, edgy and I wouldn’t want to listen for very long.
After treatment, it's like trapping a Geanie in it's flask. The imaging is vastly improved after every step, Stage also felt real.
Did I miss a description of bass benches? Hard to judge without knowing or seeing what you put down.
It pulled out too much of the life of the music. While it certainly tightened up the real heavy bass tracks, for more normal tracks it took away some of the realism. You could hear it in your voice, some of the natural depth vanished. It was the same in some of the more vocal tracks, imo.
Thanks for the video and attention to detail, Ron! Can you say if the different room treatment components impact box speakers more/less than open baffles?
Amazing the differences with and without. Great video Ron
Totally agree working on mine for @ very long time,hard hard work,❤Awesome work
But every step up to that one I thought really made a nice improvement. I also listened to the diffusion video and thought that was a nice improvement as well.
those bass benches are genius, thank you for this awesome journey!
It almost sounded like you were speaking through a tin can...
wHY JUST 1.4K LIKES
that heavy metal with the benches are great stuff.... sounds good
Peak hifi audio channel, thank you :)
Ron love your channel get a beanie for your head better for wearing headphones 😉👍
Why the weird speaker placement in the middle of the room?
Makes sense for open baffle but...
What are the ideas behind the the layout? Listening position? Speaker placement? Relative to walls and room dimensions.
Correct listening triangle used?
Approx. 45 degrees. = listening position 1,18 x distance between center of the speakers.
Here you go: ruclips.net/video/CyTkwkK8ON0/видео.htmlsi=3JNc9OfPyxJyqFlC
Big big difference!! No only in bass but in all. Cool!
Even with bass traps, Css speakers still somewhat boomy (Rock track with synth bass!). Must be the speaker!
You can't make that determination from a youtube video.
@@matt34003434So what's the whole point of the microphone head? For the record, the speakers that came after that were not boomy. Another wrong determination?
Hi, I notice that on your waterfall, the SPL scale is between ~45 and 105. For the Decay chart you used between ~30 and 85. What is the lower part of the scale to be used on this type of analysis? Is it based on the room noise floor? Thanks for your guidance.
Good question, for the decay, I probably should have changed my window setting a little higher, like 40-100. You nailed it already, anything below that - in the 30s or below is really just low level noise floor. Don’t focus a lot on that as you will notice it changes a lot… better to focus on what remains more consistent, which is totally 40db and higher.
Am wondering what the demo tracks you are using are and where can they be found?
I would like to hear the clouds alone, verses an empty room. Then the benches verses an empty room. The point is to see which pieces make the best starting point. Last, clouds and benches verses adding corners. At some point the room started to die for me. To much had been done, which started to deaden the room for me. To hear everything without the corners verses adding corners would be appreciated. Hey you started this. That would make your videos perfect. Also benches and corners without clouds. Great Job, I actually learned how to hear and understand decay. I'm not an audiophile, I'm not an audiophile, I'm not an audiophile, ahhhhh.
I’ll send over your request to the interns.
Thanks for such an amazing high quality series! Gives me some confidence and inspiration to send it with my home office, seeing how amazing the results are. And shout out acoustic insider, its cool to see the philosophy implemented
So glad!
From spectual decay it doesnt change anything
Thanks Ron for taking the effort to this great video. One question if you dont mind. May I know those 5 pieces cloud placing above those speakers or sitting position or evenly through out the listening room? Thank you.
Yes, correct. I have 6 of them in line spread out evenly on the sides of the shed. The other 2 are located above my head and one just behind me where the entrance of the shed is.
Nice video series. The decay times and spectrograms really tell the story. The Clarity tab in REW is also interesting to look at.
Thanks!
The corner traps is very impressive and what I pretty much expected but the results with the benches blew my mind. Am I correct in thinking the side of the benches facing the room is covered with plywood?
Yes, very thin sheets. Like 1/4”
Those video series are FAR THE BEST ACOUSTIC TREATMENT VIDEO AVAILABLE in youtube rigt now! Please please also make a video about designing bass traps or diffusers tuned for a certain room with the same detail. Thank you.
Which songs were used here? Sorry if I missed a list somewhere
Excellent work, Sir! 👌
Thank you kindly!
Jeezy, Something else to Nerd out about for my office/studio...Thanks Man...😊
Well played sir
Well played 😉
Ron, after as careful listening as I could undertake with my cheapie Sennheiser HD440s, my take away from this session was a better understanding of your affection for the Sapphires. I’ve experimented with a few dipole ESL and DIY dynamic OBs over my 60yrs afflicted with this addiction, and this reinforces my opinion that for that general topology of speaker, room symmetry and appropriate acoustic treatments are essential. In other words, they’ve never worked for me because of the rooms available.
For those SPGEA (self proclaimed golden eared audiophiles) who assert that You Tube sound clips can’t tell you anything, your protocol should put that to rest. Of course while the carefully curated playlist and use of binaural dummy head mic clearly demonstrates the improvements at each step, they can’t reveal what any particular speaker will sound like in different rooms.
Nicely done, and I’m eager awaiting the next chapter.
Amen to that, sir.
Appreciate your hard work in putting together such a thorough presentation
So nice of you
Wow...As they say, POWER is nothing without CONTROL. Amazing how much better the girls voice was with the clouds fitted, this is the first time I've truly understood what SOUNDSTAGE is all about.
That’s great!
Perhaps truer than you intend with your comment. Familiar with the happening where you turn the stereo up because it sounds so good and you want to rock out more... and the sound turns to utter shitte..? Assuming proper gear etc. then that is the sound of the room overloading and the sound freaking out as a result. In a well treated room with excellent bass management you can turn it up considerably more without the room overloading and the sound turning shitte.
Sounds like a highly nuanced balancing act, with the holy grail of systems leading down the road to Nirvana (Preferable turned up to 11?) lol. The one thing I can't listen to is a bad system, it's tiring after an hour, and the three worst things for me are muddy bass missing mid's and tinny top end. Drives (No pun intended honest :) ) me round the bend. The guys have helped me understand so many things in such a complicated subject.
I know some people have trouble watching these kind of technical videos, but I find them fascinating :)@@bayard1332
Sounds better without the benches…otherwise really great video and great improvement at each step
What did you like or prefer more without the benches?
Thx for all the journey...Will be sweet to be able to review the PSI audio AVAA C20 or C214 once your room will be finished with passive treatment....
what are the two speakers used in this video?
Cool video!
One possible improvement: When you show the audio examples with and without clouds, switch during the playtime several times. Scientifically proven we only have a really really short span to remember correctly when judging audio.
This was a huge effort on your part, Thank you.
I am always amazed how much bass absorption helps sibilance.
One thing, I think your major issue bass wise is at 27Hz, it shows up as a huge null in your graphs which means that there is a corresponding peak elsewhere in the room. If you took care of that (I know, good luck with that...), it should also take care of the null at 55Hz and probably help smooth out that 40Hz peak.
The benches do help produce a bit cleaner overall, but I begin to see what they mean about EQ, you can do something about the peaks, but not the valleys. In other words, smoothing the signal involves dampening the signal as well. I’ve listened to three videos in a row, and I must get on to other things today, but you’ve definitely helped me. You’ve given me the courage to fire up REW again for the first (hopefully productive) time.
Couldn’t read the resting rate
Quicker switching between treated and untreated sound clips, back and forth, would be more useful. Audio memory sucks, listening for a few seconds back and forth to the exact same section of music would be even more elucidating.
Wow one of the best videos ever!!!! A true demonstration of "your speakers are as good as your room". The difference with each change is outstanding and very noticeable. Would most room issues go away if we were to listen near field? Like speakers 1 foot away or less? Not practical in most cases however...
Thanks for this excellent series. I'm hoping that in the upcoming video(s) you will also include some discussion of the actual room furniture, that is, the seat or seats or couch where the listener(s) sit to experience the music. Obviously different seat materials will reflect and / or absorb sound differently, the size of the seats will have an effect, etc. We're getting further and further into the subtleties here, so perhaps some mention of the seating would not be amiss. Again, thanks!
Interesting video. Binaural record is also helping. Regarding bass management of room modes, tuned absorption will probably do more than porous absorber.
Yeah the Corner bass traps look quite snazzy I'm digging it. I would say you have it wider and deeper 6 in deep and two and a half feet across that looks about two feet yours. What frequencies do they work at?
Research into acoustic treatment has been found to tilt it's out near the top quite a way about 12 inches, measuring about 3 ft from the ceiling you'll get better response that way. Plus keep the backs open not boarded and lying on the wall with an inch of natural sheep's wool fleece, you can buy it in half inch thicknesses so double it up.
You might want to try this it works really well and it's simple to put up one thing you want to concentrate on is that corner behind the speakers between the ceiling and the wall and round it off, I did this with bamboo of different thicknesses and bought it over the ceiling 9 ft into the room. Start about two feet down from the ceiling curving it out 14 in at the Apex between the ceiling and the wall, and then meeting up with the ceiling pieces. The only way I could fasten the bamboo strips is with two side pieces cut in the shape of the arc and drilled out holes of different sizes for the bamboo, wrap these end pieces of the bamboo with insulation tape so it's a snug fit in the holes and a strip of thin 6mm thick by 18cm plywood in the middle taking it shape, former's i call it, and these can be screwed into the wall. just make sure there's a little bit of a gap 4cm, from the one side of the wall on one of them so you can slid the bamboo in and out, I did attach some sheep's wall fleece to the back wall but lying loose on the bamboo for the ceiling. Easy to attach it to the ceiling I just put some eye hooks in the ceiling and strung up some fishing line three one in the middle and two another side 19cm from the ceiling and used pieces of foam as spaces between the bamboo, you want to keep these spaces different sizes some of them are 12mm between and others are 9cm gap between each other just make sure it's uniformed, make sure the bamboo goes across not vertical in your sitting listening position. Looks very nice actually it's a good feature I varnished them as well with a egg shell varnish.
My friend and I have sat on the couch with pillows held above our heads to simulate (kinda?) what ceiling panels in my room would do. It anchored the sound for sure. Now I just need to buy some Basoteck panels and get off my ass to do it.
Interesting video. Binaural record is also helping. Regarding bass management of room modes, tuned absorption will probably do more than porous absorber. It will be interesting to remove the rug…
Great great work and video. Wish this was around when I started my padded room. Just a thought. Do you have a video where you decide speaker and listening position in the Soundshed? I have seen your earlier video of speaker placement (that’s why I started following you in the first place) and I have seen Acoustic Insider where he puts one speaker in the corner to find listening position. Did you use that method in the soundshed? Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Best acoustic sound demo ever. I am sure this will get a lot of people onboard with room sound treatment as you just cannot get the same SQ improvement by throwing money at the gear itself.
The bass traps allowed the natural or generated reverb in the recording to come through where untreated masked that.
And, holy crap, the ceiling clouds made a huge difference. Way more than I expected. Maybe the WAF will allow me to install those in my great room/listening room.
great to hear the peter mckinnon intro
I really wish you included (with and without) base trap testing paired with room sound treatment too.
I’m not following you
@@Newrecordday2013 base trap testing with accustic panels in all the proper places; such as behind the speakers, at primy reflection points, rear wall etc..
@@SimplestUsernameIt seemed pretty clear to me that Ron stated this is only one chapter of the journey, and that front / side and rear wall are to follow. I think gotta bet the bass and RT 60 tamed - which certainly qualifies as room treatment - as much as practical before further fine tuning. Stay tuned.
wow, great demo ,please upload videos how you are doing this step by step like science demo ,measuring instrument, software used and with various rooms, like living room ,demo room, normal home room etc.
I cant find the second video?
Is GIK the "other guys"?
It's getting there! Really looking forward to the next video and doing an A/B comparison between the more or less unfurnished room and the completely decked out room.
Love this serie of videos!
Great Job!
I swept the time slide from beginning of video to the conclusion after watching your presentation. HUGE DIFFERENCE......HUGE !!!
Thanks!
I’ll be honest, the biggest difference to me was between the speakers. The open baffle ones without bass traps sounded better than the ported ones with bass traps.
It's actually pretty neat, as using different kinds of speakers allows Ron to illustrate how room treatment will affect both kinds of speakers and how they both interact with the room. Then you can also add to that, a cabinet that is fairly resonant won't show as much improvement vs a well-braced box, or open-baffle speaker, as the speaker cabinet is still adding its own separate resonance or "bloom" to the sound, even after the room is accounted for.
@@hoth2112 Yeah, the whole thing is fantastic
This is great work Ron. Super helpful. Thanks!
You should win some sort of award for this video…incredible stuff & so so so useful. ❤️