So..their video..is sorta hard for me..As they combine 5x5 shot groups to show the overall mean radius..Less focus on Moa in their pics. But..maybe I could try something similar..Say 4 or 5 (5 shot groups) and average the moa between groups? I dont have that data yea..but I was going to release a part 2 accuracy update for the Wlvrn.
Did you see their new NEW video! Their test with Bergers 73 Grain @$36.00Box - $42.99 Box) Averaged 0.93 moa with the best group being Best group - 0.825 moa.. I think I may have found cheaper ammo that might shoot a touch better..But I need to put it on a target with 5x 5 shot groups instead of 2 5 shot groups.
As I live across the pond I have no shooting experience at all, so these migh be a stupid questionS, but... As this challenge is only about keeping the group tight, it doesn't matter if you zero or not, right? Wouldn't a bolt action be a bit harder having to cycle the gun and reacquire the target on every shot compared to guns you shot? Would a massively overpowered scope (10x, 12x?) could help with a tighter group as it would help with aiming the gun at exactly the same spot on every single spot?
@z33d6 Correct, the challenge is to see if you can put 10 rounds into a group measuring 1moa (I do this with my 3rd official entry). Lots of folks claim they can (usually with very inexpensive firearms) and this is one way to say "prove it." Its not a part of the rules to have the rifle zeroed with the ammunition. I shoot a lot of different ammo based on its availability (in my area/funds) and both with vs without the suppressor. These things mean I wont be exactly zeroed and I wanted to start with a cold bore. If you search "1MADL" you'll see bolt guns in the submissions. As far as how fast your reacquiring target on every shot, that depends on the caliber and how you have your rifle set up. Some methods are faster. There's one entry where the guy literally waits 3 minutes between shots (I think this is cheating but oh well).. A 10x,12x or 35x scope would not contribute to a tighter group at this distance. I do have scopes within the above magnification ranges. 3x is really all I need for 100 yards. What you will see is ALOT more movement from your breathing and heart beat at the higher magnifications for this distance..its..annoying..The reticle for each scope I used are also different. Basically. Scope help you 'see better' not be 'more accurate.' 'More accurate' is up to the shooters skill and ammo choice for the rifle they are shooting. Great questions.
I think I know what will shoot well with the Wlvrn..Ill have to guess on the Hellion..I only get 1 shot when on camera.. Got any ammo recommendations for the Hellion? Tfbtv suggests (what did well) was 69gr Ppu
I would do either another AR or a bolt action. Bullpup's are almost always less accurate than traditionally configured rifles, due to the trigger linkage. I would also get better targets to shoot at, with finer aiming points. While guys can certainly shoot 1/2MOA or 1/4MOA groups at 2 MOA aiming points, I personally find it a lot easier to shoot better groups when there is a finer target or something that comes to a precise point. If I'm shooting at the intersection between two straight lines, I can usually aim at something really small (with enough scope of course), if I do a good job trigger pulling, then the resulting group is a result of the gun/ammo. Aim small, miss small. If i shoot at a 2MOA or even a 1MOA point of aim, it can look like I'm still aiming at it but there can be a lot of variance. Just my 2 cents.
I dont have another Ar.1 is plenty.I did do slightly better than Blokeontheranges Sp-15 (looks like a bolt-action ar) where he got 1.291 moa. I do have several bullpups tho. My 1 bolt gun would be disqualified from the challenge simply due to weight restriction of the challenge.I will says the accuracy of bullpups has nothing to do with the linkage. Modern bullpups like the Rdb and Wlvrn have good triggers from the factory,so it's not a trigger issue. The Rdb also doesn't have a trigger linkage to a trigger pack like typical bullpups or even a trigger pack Typically piston guns are alleged to be less accurate, but no one can say how much less accurate..or what they are comparing them too.. Shooting 10shot groups accurately is..challenging and doing so in 1 try is more so. I'll be practicing. If the furthest of my mistake shot for the Rdb was in the main group..that would have been 1.3moa..instead of growing that to 2moa. I have a 1.3moa 10shot group in my short vids for the Rdb..Which would mean, in my hands,when I can keep it together for 10 shots..My Rdb is maybe 0.1moa less accurate than my Ar with the same ammo.. As for the target choices.. I'm on a public range. I don't control what target they purchase and put up. Nor do I control when they shut down for target changes. I just show up and hope the bay Im at is not already shot up.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but I recall the bloke calling out hunters. So I’d like to see you do a bolt gun. Now, hunting, what exactly did he mean? Lol. I’m thinking of my deer rifles. And most hunting rifles don’t have heavy contoured barrels. Most hunting rifles aren’t expected to do ten shot groups. So, I don’t recall there a time limit. So shoot ten cold ones. 😳
I have an ACR with the 18.5" barrel which is very heavy profile. With match ammo like GMM 69gr it really is surprisingly accurate. I believe I might be able to pull off the challenge with it, but with that extra heavy barrel, the Magpul PRS stock (which is what, 2 pounds by itself) and the Trijicon 4-16x50 scope it's WELL over the weight limit. ACRs are chonkers!
I totally forgot about the mounts used or that anyone would care about them.. They are good mounts..I wish I had them for the larger 34mm tubes...Especially the lower pro (less than 1.5" height) for rifles like the Hellion.
Lol it's a combination of the Luckyishman Rhino Rail(handgaurd),glock houge grip sleeve (superglued on) and a krytpec gun(wrap) front gun wraps... I the wrap mostly because I was trying to decide what to have my rifle painted..and never took it back off.
@@Odinforever2000yeah there seems to be more leeway in the so-called over-stablized Vs under-stabilized end of the spectrum. I don’t think 77g would go well out of my 1:14 varmint rifle 👀
Would love to see the WLVRN and how it compares to what DT got in the video they just released.
So..their video..is sorta hard for me..As they combine 5x5 shot groups to show the overall mean radius..Less focus on Moa in their pics.
But..maybe I could try something similar..Say 4 or 5 (5 shot groups) and average the moa between groups?
I dont have that data yea..but I was going to release a part 2 accuracy update for the Wlvrn.
Did you see their new NEW video! Their test with Bergers 73 Grain @$36.00Box - $42.99 Box) Averaged 0.93 moa with the best group being Best group - 0.825 moa.. I think I may have found cheaper ammo that might shoot a touch better..But I need to put it on a target with 5x 5 shot groups instead of 2 5 shot groups.
Keep up the bullpups! It's good to see how good the concept is when done properly (I'm looking at you L85A1)
Will do! I will be adding a rear bag for my next entry..It seems to help out alot by letting make those fine adjustments.
As I live across the pond I have no shooting experience at all, so these migh be a stupid questionS, but...
As this challenge is only about keeping the group tight, it doesn't matter if you zero or not, right?
Wouldn't a bolt action be a bit harder having to cycle the gun and reacquire the target on every shot compared to guns you shot?
Would a massively overpowered scope (10x, 12x?) could help with a tighter group as it would help with aiming the gun at exactly the same spot on every single spot?
@z33d6
Correct, the challenge is to see if you can put 10 rounds into a group measuring 1moa (I do this with my 3rd official entry).
Lots of folks claim they can (usually with very inexpensive firearms) and this is one way to say "prove it." Its not a part of the rules to have the rifle zeroed with the ammunition. I shoot a lot of different ammo based on its availability (in my area/funds) and both with vs without the suppressor. These things mean I wont be exactly zeroed and I wanted to start with a cold bore.
If you search "1MADL" you'll see bolt guns in the submissions. As far as how fast your reacquiring target on every shot, that depends on the caliber and how you have your rifle set up. Some methods are faster. There's one entry where the guy literally waits 3 minutes between shots (I think this is cheating but oh well)..
A 10x,12x or 35x scope would not contribute to a tighter group at this distance. I do have scopes within the above magnification ranges. 3x is really all I need for 100 yards. What you will see is ALOT more movement from your breathing and heart beat at the higher magnifications for this distance..its..annoying..The reticle for each scope I used are also different.
Basically. Scope help you 'see better' not be 'more accurate.'
'More accurate' is up to the shooters skill and ammo choice for the rifle they are shooting.
Great questions.
Do all the bullups. WLRN and Hellion up next.
I think I know what will shoot well with the Wlvrn..Ill have to guess on the Hellion..I only get 1 shot when on camera..
Got any ammo recommendations for the Hellion?
Tfbtv suggests (what did well) was 69gr Ppu
Go get em tiger!
I figured I'd give it a go..Typically my Ar and Rdb shoot nearly the same size groups..But..underpressure..I did not prove that lol.
@@Odinforever2000 lol better than I’d do likely. Fun challenge fer sure.
@@methodsocraticIdk.. you might do even better. I think it comes down to knowing your rifle,what it likes and..not screwing up for 10 shots..😅
@@Odinforever2000 eh lol I appreciate the confidence in me bud but I’m def not the marksman type.
I would do either another AR or a bolt action. Bullpup's are almost always less accurate than traditionally configured rifles, due to the trigger linkage.
I would also get better targets to shoot at, with finer aiming points. While guys can certainly shoot 1/2MOA or 1/4MOA groups at 2 MOA aiming points, I personally find it a lot easier to shoot better groups when there is a finer target or something that comes to a precise point. If I'm shooting at the intersection between two straight lines, I can usually aim at something really small (with enough scope of course), if I do a good job trigger pulling, then the resulting group is a result of the gun/ammo. Aim small, miss small. If i shoot at a 2MOA or even a 1MOA point of aim, it can look like I'm still aiming at it but there can be a lot of variance. Just my 2 cents.
I dont have another Ar.1 is plenty.I did do slightly better than Blokeontheranges Sp-15 (looks like a bolt-action ar) where he got 1.291 moa.
I do have several bullpups tho.
My 1 bolt gun would be disqualified from the challenge simply due to weight restriction of the challenge.I will says the accuracy of bullpups has nothing to do with the linkage.
Modern bullpups like the Rdb and Wlvrn have good triggers from the factory,so it's not a trigger issue.
The Rdb also doesn't have a trigger linkage to a trigger pack like typical bullpups or even a trigger pack
Typically piston guns are alleged to be less accurate, but no one can say how much less accurate..or what they are comparing them too..
Shooting 10shot groups accurately is..challenging and doing so in 1 try is more so.
I'll be practicing.
If the furthest of my mistake shot for the Rdb was in the main group..that would have been 1.3moa..instead of growing that to 2moa.
I have a 1.3moa 10shot group in my short vids for the Rdb..Which would mean, in my hands,when I can keep it together for 10 shots..My Rdb is maybe 0.1moa less accurate than my Ar with the same ammo..
As for the target choices.. I'm on a public range. I don't control what target they purchase and put up. Nor do I control when they shut down for target changes.
I just show up and hope the bay Im at is not already shot up.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but I recall the bloke calling out hunters. So I’d like to see you do a bolt gun. Now, hunting, what exactly did he mean? Lol. I’m thinking of my deer rifles. And most hunting rifles don’t have heavy contoured barrels. Most hunting rifles aren’t expected to do ten shot groups. So, I don’t recall there a time limit. So shoot ten cold ones. 😳
There isnt a time limit..But im not patient enough (on a public range) to do 10 cold bore shots.
WLVRN would be cool as your third but x95 would be a good second choice in my opinion
Wlvrn eh? The only Tavor I have at the moment is the older Sar variant..No x95 for me..
@@Odinforever2000 sorry I meant Sar lol I forgot
Very informative. I think most modern rifles are 1moa all day. Question is whether the shooter can get that.
Shooter + ammo combination. And ..a rear bag..(see my 1moa all day #3 entry)
I have an ACR with the 18.5" barrel which is very heavy profile. With match ammo like GMM 69gr it really is surprisingly accurate. I believe I might be able to pull off the challenge with it, but with that extra heavy barrel, the Magpul PRS stock (which is what, 2 pounds by itself) and the Trijicon 4-16x50 scope it's WELL over the weight limit. ACRs are chonkers!
Dooo it! I threw the ACR in just for fun.. Dont have alot of trigger time behind it (vs the 2 guns preceding it)..
@@Odinforever2000 I'll consider it, just for fun and data points, of course. The rifle is about 13 pounds, so way over the weight limit.
Not bad at all. Wish you woulda mentioned the best group you make was using a monstrum mount. I like those pro serious 7075 mounts.
I totally forgot about the mounts used or that anyone would care about them.. They are good mounts..I wish I had them for the larger 34mm tubes...Especially the lower pro (less than 1.5" height) for rifles like the Hellion.
Kind of your doge to make a guest appearance, to boost your algorithm.
She likes to hang out when I'm outside.
I don't really like the RDB.
I see the finish on yours.
Now I like and want 🍻
Lol it's a combination of the Luckyishman Rhino Rail(handgaurd),glock houge grip sleeve (superglued on) and a krytpec gun(wrap) front gun wraps...
I the wrap mostly because I was trying to decide what to have my rifle painted..and never took it back off.
@@Odinforever2000
What kind of foil was used to wrap it?
I’m kinda shocked that 50 grain thru 1:9 went that well, that’s more 1:12 to 1:14 territory imho.
Eh..more like guidelines.. clearly lol..I shot 40gr Vmax as well in my 1:7 twist rifles.
@@Odinforever2000yeah there seems to be more leeway in the so-called over-stablized Vs under-stabilized end of the spectrum. I don’t think 77g would go well out of my 1:14 varmint rifle 👀
@@JamesReedyYea..but 77gr shoots fine out of my 1:9s..
@@JamesReedy
There is no over-stabilized. You can over spin it till it disintegrates like a CD in an angle grinder.
@@onpsxmember yeah that’s what I mean, push a projectile hard enuf it can shed its jacket or otherwise come unglued.
100 yards shoulds be the challenge, 1 moa is then a given. Leave it to a brit to complicate things.
Yea..But not everyone has access to a range that has 100 yards as the distance. Several indoor ranges Ive been to stop at 50 yards.