Hey guys friendly reminder that this is all just subjective speculation/observation from the first few days of the patch and alot is probably gonna change soon! I am happy to be proven wrong and am just here to learn like the rest of you:) try to be nice in the comments! 🫡
Hey, can u make an updated video about quick casting? After new patch those binds aint working no mo and im honestly have no clue how to make for example bebop double bombp with echo shard on 2 keybind.
Fr. In my match as Mirage I used the first skill in mid when the enemy team beat the mid boss, lifted them up and i smashed the rejuvenator lol. Then my team came and wiped the enemy squad and proceeded to win the game in the next 2 and half minutes. I'm liking him a lot and is so OP in clutch situations.
On Mirage, there are four builds: 1. Melee Mirage - Get melee build, punch enemy after Tornado. Pretty good midgame, falls off against competent opponents because they can parry while rooted. 2. Dynamo-Lite Mirage - Get Echo Shard + duration, Echo Shard the Tornado. Enemies are locked in place for ~4.2 seconds on ~11k soul investment. It was completely insane on release, but that 0.4 base duration nerf helped tone it down. Still, it's Dynamo + Refresher on 1/8th of the cooldown. 3. Lifesteal Mirage - Get CDR for beetles, progress into Siphon Bullets + Ricochet. Doesn't work too hot because Fire Beetles are bugged to go on double cooldown when launch time exceeds cooldown. Still, promising since Beetles are true damage like Siphon Bullets (no amount of spirit resist can reduce its damage). Getting new beetle stack on enemies every 6 seconds can make Mirage hella tanky. 4. Gun Mirage - His gun has crazy damage output per shot and his 3 makes spirit a potent multiplier as well. One can either focus on potshots to explode enemies from outside dropoff range due to 3, or one can focus gun damage to make headshots deal 400+. His main shtick is to gank with teleport early/mid game, and either split push with the ability to join the fight, or push with team and teleport to defend if an enemy split pushes.
IMO if a hero requires an insane amount of effort and skill just to be viable, it shouldn't be considered a good hero. Like yea, any hero is good in the hands of a pro player, but that's a matter of skill, not hero quality. Paradox being in A seems so high for such a low winrate hero.
Abrams is like the soldier of deadlock. they intentionally named him A so he would be first. i think that he will always be the most noob friendly hero
@@soaringbullet False, played four matches with him just so I could rightfully call Abram's player for smashing their face on the keyboard. And indeed you can succeed with him doing just that. Plus other noobs won't parry either way.
@@soaringbullet Yea but that also gives new Abrams players the easiest mind-games 101 lesson ever. They could do an uncharged melee mixup, intentionally whiff the first hit, use an ability to delay the attack animation, etc..They have a lot of answers to parrying that they can come to naturally. And, at first, there usually will only be one player on the enemy team at most who will know how to parry, which lets them become more acclimated to that strategy as they climb before every enemy can parry.
Mcginnis is actually seeing a decent amount of competative play as a support, her heal and wall can be pretty busted in coordinated play, its certainly not gonna beat a viscous or ivy, but its a viable strategy that can complement a brawly team
So far I found Ricochet has been really fun when you have gotten ahead and gotten your power level up, you can do A LOT of damage in team fights by applying multiple stacks to different characters
Something i would love to see addressed is the NEED to buy anti heal. Im finding myself buying toxic bullets/decay/ heal banr EVERY GAME and its hurting build variety. Ill often find myself veing the only person able to kill some of these heavy healing heroes
Yeah, it's hard to compare it to other mobas since there is such a small champ pool, but I think a meta is unhealthy when you are buying antiheal every game.
One of the biggest changes you didn't mention that hurt some heros is that you can't cast unstoppable in channeled ults anymore which definitely hurts Haze and Seven and even Dynamo
@@bryce4443 But to be fair to OP he only said it in the Haze section. He mentioned nothing about it in the paradox section which he should have to be honest since its a huge buff to paradox as haze is so prevalent in games.
As a Bebop I normally never struggle against Wraith unless she is fed because I stick with my team for hooks, or she just dies to double bomb with ganks, but the scariest Wraith I ever fought was last night because she ran Shadow Weave. That girl would just appear out of nowhere in a team fight like a Haze and pop her point blank AoE Ult to trap all of us in place for her team to finish us off. Was absolutely terrifying and she only had to do it like 3 times for her team to win since it was pretty much an instant team fight winner.
Small correction: Kelvin's beam went from disarm to 90% slow, to 60%, to 80%, to split 70% movement 40% fire rate, and then current version. I look forward to seeing where this rollercoaster goes next 😂
The Haze changes were perfect. I’ve been playing her a lot (mainly so I don’t have to play against her) and her ult was objectively broken. She still feels strong, but she’s not just an instant team fight winner. Also, fuck Kelvin. Just remove him from the game.
Also the benefit of adjusting items to balance characters is that any future problems the item would’ve caused with character interactions won’t happen
I'm going to try out your build, but I feel a bit stubborn about ricochet on Mirage because I've found it really helpful in team fights. His tornado is great but when it's on cooldown ricochet makes me feel like I can still contribute something 😅
I think ricochet is more for spirit based builds but unfortunately his kit doesn’t synergise well with spirit and way more with gun (bullet resist reduction 25% on 2 and bullet evasion being close range)
I play LG a lot and I think it’s funny she got buffed. When people start playing her, they gonna see how big a problem she is lol. I think at high level competitive, she’s gonna slap with a well coordinated team.
Turret build McGinnis is a monster. She can also use her ult to farm the tier 3 jungle monsters very early in the game because of how much damage it does and its incredibly low cooldown. She’s much better in fights against short range targets or fights where the enemy is coming to YOU and not vice versa. That being said, you can buy the spirit debuff items and proc them constantly for your team through turrets and ult. Entire enemy team being slowed, healing reduced, fire rate slowed and spirit resist reduced for the entire fight JUST from your turrets helps your team go for raw damage or defensive items instead of having to buy debuff items. The only real downside to McGinnis is her turrets having pretty poor targeting. Sometimes they target who you want and sometimes they will target a useless lane creep. Also her ult is pretty bad if you don’t position well. It constantly gets caught on structures/walls and its aiming feels weird and janky.
I’d like them to improve her targeting for turrets. I think there’s a few ways they could do it. Any 1 of these suggestions would feel good IMO 1. Make it where they automatically target who is shooting, she needs to land 15-20 bullets on the target to build a “debuff” for turret priority. That way there’s a delay and they all don’t just snap and melt someone immediately on 1 bullet. And they will go on who she wants them to go on. 2. When she lands a wall, that person gets priority for turrets so her kit synergizes with itself and you have to aim your wall better to get max value. 3. The turrets auto target enemy hero’s fighting within the range of your heal beacon. So if anyone dives you, you can drop that to get the sustain and turn the fight for her.
Haze as A tier is actually insane in my opinion. Her damage is huge, probably the highest damage ultimate in the game right now. She pops silencer and unstoppable, and there is actually no counter to that. Metal skin exists, but only lasts 3s while her ult can last 10+. Your only hope is that you can run away, but if the Haze positions properly then that becomes impossible. I am absolutely certain that she will be nerfed again in the next patch. And this is coming from a Haze player. For reference, I have 22 games, and 20 wins on her.
There are so many ways to stop her ult early with stuns or return fire even. Buying unstoppable sets her damage back a lot. Its a late game item. Also that early cheap bullet resistance items now make her damage low. You can just punch her to death. She needs more time to come online now which is fine since she is a late game hyper carry. But until then you're like 5.5 vs 6 in the early to mid game
See so many people saying haze is weak early game etc. She prob has one of the best guns for securing souls and denies and the sleep sets up an almost guaranteed kill in duo lane or guaranteed big damage in a solo lane @xristossjiero4583
I think making tier list is too early to tell for the patch, you cant assume what could happend based on numbers. just like every other game when making balances and we see what we dont expect. I think we should wait maybe a week to see whats actually good and whats not
I make one pretty much every other week, because people seem to love watching them:) I totally agree that we have no idea how the meta will turn out to be, but that doesnt mean I should wait with making videos that perform well and causes a lot of discussion, thats kinda what we want out of an early access game:) its not about being right or wrong
Been really enjoying the Grey Talon buffs. It does bite that his laning is more awkward from the attack speed reduction, but the base damage increase atleast lets him poke better in that early phase to bully folk with two left feet. Dunno what could make his current bad matchups less unbearable.
As someone who mains Vindicta the only thing I’ve really noticed is her firing rate. The only effect that has on my build really is early game though cause if I’m in a solo lane it’s hard to keep up with my enemy vs in a duo lane I can rely on my partner to help with last hits and finishing waves. Late game is still almost the same I build for damage output and a little bit of firing rate while enough cooldown reduction where I have maybe 1-2 seconds after I fall from the air that I will be back up in, she is still good but I agree the nerfs were needed she was busted 😂. If you play vindicta and you’re in a solo lane you need to learn how to play from behind on laning phase, last hit enemies with your ult when you get out of laning phase and catch back up in farm fast.
Mo and krill player here, I love the changes they made but he definitely needs some nerfs on either the heal or burrow. The heal needs nerfed base wise to make him a little easier to punish early. His burrow has to much value later because of movement speed buff. So maybe nerf the buff you get at tier 3. There are many items that can make up for nerfs on his healing and movement speed so i think it would help put him in a counterable state. I found myself winning most my lanes. Im not that great at shooters but im great at running down players with the mole.
I get that it's just an opinion, but a lot of it is based on too many "what ifs." Personally, I think Wraith is stronger than Paradox because of her skillset. Coming from LoL, I’m still getting used to this game’s cooldowns since I’ve only played about 50 games of Deadlock. But in my opinion, if a character forces multiple players to burn long cooldowns in exchange for their own 40-60 second ability, that’s not balanced. And you mentioned the "what if" scenario where they have certain cooldowns, but what if they don’t? You did the same with Paradox, saying IF she has a good team playing around her abilities, then she’s A-tier. But that could apply to almost any character in any game. To me, she’s strong but lacks carry potential, and putting her in the same tier as minor hyper carries seems crazy, considering she’s more of an assist bot with less playmaking ability than even Lash, who’s ranked lower. Too many "what ifs" and hypotheticals. Loved the video anyways!!
I think you have to remember that this isnt a carry potential tier list :) Some heroes are designed to 1v9 games, some are designed to enable your team. thanks for the feedback!
Kind of wild to watch you struggle on mirage yesterday and then hear you give advice on him today. Mirage ricochet with the right items is boss in end game team fights. You can steal rejuv with his 1. He is really powerful all game both in team fights and 1v1 if you build him right. Literally can debuff targets to -35% bullet resist instantly and keep them still for two seconds of headshots. This list will be getting changed as you learn him more.
+1 on the ricochet buy. Can be much more conservative positioning wise and hold your 1 for if the enemy tries to focus you. Then just keep building stacks on everyone in the moshpit. The fact that he can punish people for grouping while staying at a safe distance is incredible. He surpasses even infernus at doing this imo, since he needs less shots to land in order to get his proc and just applying it slows for 80 effing % This also means you can jiggle peak during the cooldown between stack applications to stay even safer.
@@randomname2366 yeah, I was sceptical when he mentioned to not go for ricochet. I've only played him twice, one time with and one time without ricochet. The time I got ricochet felt like such a big power increase, even moreso than Haze and Infernus. Haze and Infernus need to be up close and personal to get good use out of their weapons and abilities. Enemies aren't going to be hiding around corners that much when you're that aggressive. However, with Mirage, you can harass enemies from afar. When an enemy has some multiplier on them, they're likely to get behind cover and wait for it to run out, at this point, Ricochet becomes extremely useful, because now you can use their teammates or minions, to continue increasing their stacks, and you can remain at your safe distance.
Assassinate damage is still too high. 140 + 20% for headshot = 168 before items. As soon as Vindicta gets ult she gets 168 x 3 (504) burst damage instantly assuming she DOESNT immediately skill extra damage into her ult and DOESNT drop you below the damage bonus threshold. I have no idea how this keeps dodging significant nerfs.
Ricochet mirage synergises with his e tho. I tried it once and everyone on the enemy team was just permanently slowed. Also, non moba players ssly underrate the puching power it provides and how valuable fast pushes are. Its an efficiency game. And early ricochet allows to push faster which leaves you with opportunities to make plays. You can literally go aids mirage builds and just spread nasty on hit effects such as toxic bullets and his e on everyone lo'
I tried that too but IMO its way too slow and you’re not taking advantage of his extreme ganking and split push power, ricochet is for late game hyperscalers like infernus and haze. I dont think just because your hero has an on hit effect you automatically should buy ricochet. I could see it being useful in a spirit build maybe but thts extremely greedy
I feel as though miriage could be an amazing spirit build team fighter. I have not tried gun build on him yet, but his pasive mixed with richochet and mystic reverb has been reallyyyyy good for me. improved burst duration extender etc. are really strong with his 3/passive. Combine this with his tornado which will pickup a whole team... Richochet hitting each and every one of them. You can get your passive stacks on each soo fast, and when you need a quick heal you just press three. only works of course if you have spirit lifesteal. I just think that he is an incredible spirit build for team fights specificly. this build is not great in 1v1 to 1v2/3 senarios. I will have to check out your gun build but spirit seems extremely viable in my opinion
The problem is you need many expensive items for that payoff and you Will never out damage wraith, infernus, haze with the same amount of items. His strong ability is his ult not his E. Global presence early means great ganks and easy soul urn. So buying good early items will help your team get the lead and allow actual hyper carries to come online faster. You won't ever out damage an infernus if you both have 40k souls.
Haze also had a buff by having lucky shot, mystic shot, tesla bullets proc now which is huge. This means her ult can still dish out hugedps and her primary gun still fucking shreds too. with Ricochet and Lucky shot + a couple t3 t4 active items to use on enemies shes very strong still
The buff Haze got was nerfed in every aspect from Fire Rate items, so she lost half the firerate she used to have before this patch, and her 4 would hit enemies ricochet behind walls (not anymore)
I agree with you on McGinnis but I feel about her the way you described Infernus. Good kit, fun to play, not overly strong, but also not underpowered. Shes ok where shes at and it likely wont be a high level or pro play hero but thats totally ok.
Personally I believe that seven should be at the same place as haze because of his first ability it makes it to where he can hyper farm faster than anyone and he can control lanes by himself with a whole team pushing with his 1 and 3 together sevens first ability can be scaled to the moon if you play him right I made my own build for him that I am still tweaking a bit but trust me use his 1 more than anything else and you just win
I think wraith is an S tier hero in the right hand in a Solo lane. Like you said she is a lane demon. I watched a replay, I dominated a lane forced 3 rotations. And made huge nw lead for my team.
Curious if you've played Shiv yet - I think these nerfs really hurt him. Its noticeably harder to keep your rage up now and your whole kit is weaker without it. I also keep going up against Pockets and the community is learning pocket ult is a free kill on Shiv and im getting focused by it alot. I hope they change that interaction.
Not sure I agree with not buying ricochet on Mirage. You dont buy it so you can farm jungle. You buy it so you can split push super fast and use his ult to do so safely. It also makes him a much bigger threat in team fights by applying the debuff to multiple opponents at once.
Im a haze main, and i dont think she fits in A tier, when doing a tier list, i think you also have to look at the meta, there are tons of heroes that have crowd control and can ruin her ult, you basically need to build a Silencer, Unstoppable in order to make sure you can effectively use her ult to the fullest. that takes a lot of farming considering these are very expensive items, by then enemies might have also snow balled, not to mention, she's also not a great laner. But yeah, once she has these items, she can carry the game easily, but again, there are conditions.
Great list but hard disagree on the Paradox tho. Since there's so much life steal and tanky builds, her burst dmg combo usually just isn't enough especially late game, and they just instantly heal back up after you hit your carbine, and if you miss (skill issue lol but so much movement in this game) you just have to afk for like 20 sec (8 if its late game) bc that's your only good dmg source. How her kit is designed to do dmg just doesn't work very well imo (Pulse grenade is laughable).
Spirit ivy has always been one of my fav builds in the game. Is it great? Probably not but the wave shove, farming speed, and area denial with Mystic Slow and improved reach plus the buff is so fun. Gun ivy on the other hand feels dead after all the nerfs, no way she’s S Tier overall
Vindicatas snipe change feels awful imo. Wild that ADS with sharpshooter has a further zoom then the ult now. It’s so disorienting. Hoping they revert that change and leave the rest of the nerfs.
It should work like a sniper in Halo. Pressing 4 once gives you a 2x zoom. Pressing it twice gives a 4x zoom. Pressing it 3 times makes it stop zooming in.
i agree 100% on infernus. he is strong but has a lot of counters. debuff remover, anti heal (healbane + toxic) even Ethereal Shift counter him. The Haze "nerfs" is somewhat offset by the fact that lucky shot now work with her ult. the double stacks per proc is insane for nuking people.
Have you tried on Mirage building ricochet with escalating exposure then keep on spamming 1stack then pop them immediately? The stacks of escalating exposure that builds off of them is disgusting lmao
Its crazy, i had this conversation about mcginnis like every patch INCLUDING TODAY A friend of mine who is fairly good ((not pro level, but top 15% tier)) that absolutely hates playing against mcginnis. I think what it REALLY is , is that some characters HATE playing into turrets. They cant gun them down fast enough, and sp she gets to decide "i dont need to run" and just wins fights by herself
My guy put Ivy (that was second worst character before the nerf that tripled her cooldowns) in S and Seven (the easiest to play character in the game that's top 1 WR in all brackets beside top1%) in B. Literal driftwood tier MMR 🤣
Only think i hate on Yamato this patch is that 1 button can now pre cancel the ability.,.... WHYYY WHYYY :( Else love that my two most played Hero are strong this path in pocket and yamato :D
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey guys friendly reminder that this is all just subjective speculation/observation from the first few days of the patch and alot is probably gonna change soon! I am happy to be proven wrong and am just here to learn like the rest of you:) try to be nice in the comments! 🫡
Hey, can u make an updated video about quick casting? After new patch those binds aint working no mo and im honestly have no clue how to make for example bebop double bombp with echo shard on 2 keybind.
Thoughts on refresher giving players like dynamo two rapid ultimates?
spirit wraith, ivy, and kelvin going crazy this patch.
Remember when seven's WR increased 15% because when they nerffed his ult people started going gun build and out performed most heros.
Mirage first skill is so overtuned
The knockup is really busted its legit a wraith ult on a basic ability
@@yanghesu It works like grey talon trap. Just other effects are make it broken. Evasion, damage, invul.
Mirage 1 is Mobility, bullet evasion and knock up. 3 things in 1.
@@Redotwo42isn’t he also invulnerable in it? I’ve wraith ult’d him and while being lifted up he would just tornado out of it
Fr. In my match as Mirage I used the first skill in mid when the enemy team beat the mid boss, lifted them up and i smashed the rejuvenator lol. Then my team came and wiped the enemy squad and proceeded to win the game in the next 2 and half minutes. I'm liking him a lot and is so OP in clutch situations.
If you have questions about Deadlock or want to see more gameplay/theorycrafting, don't hesitate to join my daily streams on twitch.tv/averagejonas
Certified Kelvin HATER checking in🖐
Fuck that character ‼️
WELCOME FRIEND
Kevlin Main Here Checking In 😂
I just want you to know as a Kelvin player i enjoy making everyone as miserable as possible
@@HieronymusFlex that’s because you don’t have a strong father figure in your life
14:56 "Next up we have Lady GYATT -I mean Lady Geist!" 😭
Yeah, I saw the video too
On Mirage, there are four builds:
1. Melee Mirage - Get melee build, punch enemy after Tornado. Pretty good midgame, falls off against competent opponents because they can parry while rooted.
2. Dynamo-Lite Mirage - Get Echo Shard + duration, Echo Shard the Tornado. Enemies are locked in place for ~4.2 seconds on ~11k soul investment. It was completely insane on release, but that 0.4 base duration nerf helped tone it down. Still, it's Dynamo + Refresher on 1/8th of the cooldown.
3. Lifesteal Mirage - Get CDR for beetles, progress into Siphon Bullets + Ricochet. Doesn't work too hot because Fire Beetles are bugged to go on double cooldown when launch time exceeds cooldown. Still, promising since Beetles are true damage like Siphon Bullets (no amount of spirit resist can reduce its damage). Getting new beetle stack on enemies every 6 seconds can make Mirage hella tanky.
4. Gun Mirage - His gun has crazy damage output per shot and his 3 makes spirit a potent multiplier as well. One can either focus on potshots to explode enemies from outside dropoff range due to 3, or one can focus gun damage to make headshots deal 400+.
His main shtick is to gank with teleport early/mid game, and either split push with the ability to join the fight, or push with team and teleport to defend if an enemy split pushes.
I’m ready for 100+ tier lists after these daily patches lol
Same lol, SO MUCH TO DISCUSS
@@AverageJonas I like how you add at the top the changes made good job bro! I like your relaxing voice
IMO if a hero requires an insane amount of effort and skill just to be viable, it shouldn't be considered a good hero. Like yea, any hero is good in the hands of a pro player, but that's a matter of skill, not hero quality. Paradox being in A seems so high for such a low winrate hero.
The hero doesn't require an insane amount of skill, it's about having a functional team! But I do get your point
Abrams is like the soldier of deadlock. they intentionally named him A so he would be first. i think that he will always be the most noob friendly hero
Agreed. I feel like if Abrams viable, then the game is balanced. If he cant get within melee range anymore then things are overtuned.
Feel like he's not noob friendly, if you don't know how to deal with parries your cooked
@@soaringbullet False, played four matches with him just so I could rightfully call Abram's player for smashing their face on the keyboard. And indeed you can succeed with him doing just that. Plus other noobs won't parry either way.
@suerte1392 yeah but once you get to the point where players aren't braindead it's a joke to counter him
@@soaringbullet Yea but that also gives new Abrams players the easiest mind-games 101 lesson ever. They could do an uncharged melee mixup, intentionally whiff the first hit, use an ability to delay the attack animation, etc..They have a lot of answers to parrying that they can come to naturally. And, at first, there usually will only be one player on the enemy team at most who will know how to parry, which lets them become more acclimated to that strategy as they climb before every enemy can parry.
Mcginnis is actually seeing a decent amount of competative play as a support, her heal and wall can be pretty busted in coordinated play, its certainly not gonna beat a viscous or ivy, but its a viable strategy that can complement a brawly team
Yep!
spirit strike no longer giving regen is a big nerf to viscous in lane
Yeah that item was overtuned for sure! I always buy it on bebop and shiv too
So far I found Ricochet has been really fun when you have gotten ahead and gotten your power level up, you can do A LOT of damage in team fights by applying multiple stacks to different characters
Combining quicksilver reload with mirage's 3 basiclly gives him infinite ammo
Something i would love to see addressed is the NEED to buy anti heal.
Im finding myself buying toxic bullets/decay/ heal banr EVERY GAME and its hurting build variety. Ill often find myself veing the only person able to kill some of these heavy healing heroes
I said this in my counters video, almost always buy it loll
Yeah, it's hard to compare it to other mobas since there is such a small champ pool, but I think a meta is unhealthy when you are buying antiheal every game.
@@incidentlyaniguana2193true i think the hero pool is the main reason
jonas welcome to deadlock. i am late may be but happy to see u play something different. btw u got sova's grandma here XD
grey talon's a dude
@@madiqsozmal5595 talon looks like a Mexican grandma ngl
My overall issue with Infernus is the early Afterburn being too overpowering the laning phase
Yeah he can be very hard to lane against with those afterburn procs
One of the biggest changes you didn't mention that hurt some heros is that you can't cast unstoppable in channeled ults anymore which definitely hurts Haze and Seven and even Dynamo
wait actually? so only precast now?
@@frostfour668 Correct
That was never intended in the first place i believe, I hardly consider that a nerf, more a fix but I see your point
First deadlock creator that actually comments on infernus correctly
I think lady giest’s early game poke is ridiculous and she can snowball real easily form that
Forgot to mention Paradox can now Time Wall Haze ult, which regardless of anything else makes her S tier because Haze is annoying.
based opinion
He said it in the video
I’m ngl he legit said it
@@bryce4443 But to be fair to OP he only said it in the Haze section. He mentioned nothing about it in the paradox section which he should have to be honest since its a huge buff to paradox as haze is so prevalent in games.
@@AeneaSXI W reply
These patch update videos are very helpful
As a Bebop I normally never struggle against Wraith unless she is fed because I stick with my team for hooks, or she just dies to double bomb with ganks, but the scariest Wraith I ever fought was last night because she ran Shadow Weave.
That girl would just appear out of nowhere in a team fight like a Haze and pop her point blank AoE Ult to trap all of us in place for her team to finish us off. Was absolutely terrifying and she only had to do it like 3 times for her team to win since it was pretty much an instant team fight winner.
Small correction: Kelvin's beam went from disarm to 90% slow, to 60%, to 80%, to split 70% movement 40% fire rate, and then current version.
I look forward to seeing where this rollercoaster goes next 😂
😂😂😂 it never ends
The Haze changes were perfect. I’ve been playing her a lot (mainly so I don’t have to play against her) and her ult was objectively broken. She still feels strong, but she’s not just an instant team fight winner. Also, fuck Kelvin. Just remove him from the game.
In the NA pro scene, McGinnis is actually used a decent amount as a support, abusing echo shard and double wall.
She's a beast when well used
Only 1 player uses her
These videos are great keep it up Bro!
All my homes hate kelvin.
Like a text book lesson in "what were devs thinking" when they designed him
always waiting for vids like these when a new patch comes out. love u bro
Also the benefit of adjusting items to balance characters is that any future problems the item would’ve caused with character interactions won’t happen
I'm going to try out your build, but I feel a bit stubborn about ricochet on Mirage because I've found it really helpful in team fights. His tornado is great but when it's on cooldown ricochet makes me feel like I can still contribute something 😅
When I went ricochet i just became way too slow and squishy so pristine and point blank feels so much better but yea try it out!
I think ricochet is more for spirit based builds but unfortunately his kit doesn’t synergise well with spirit and way more with gun (bullet resist reduction 25% on 2 and bullet evasion being close range)
Anyone who plays Kelvin most definitely eats crayons
I play LG a lot and I think it’s funny she got buffed. When people start playing her, they gonna see how big a problem she is lol. I think at high level competitive, she’s gonna slap with a well coordinated team.
Dude I feel you she feels so good once you get leech and can just stay alive forever
See me at low MMR, where every game has a Yamato who goes 3/18 and is the lowest souls character on either team.
Turret build McGinnis is a monster. She can also use her ult to farm the tier 3 jungle monsters very early in the game because of how much damage it does and its incredibly low cooldown.
She’s much better in fights against short range targets or fights where the enemy is coming to YOU and not vice versa.
That being said, you can buy the spirit debuff items and proc them constantly for your team through turrets and ult. Entire enemy team being slowed, healing reduced, fire rate slowed and spirit resist reduced for the entire fight JUST from your turrets helps your team go for raw damage or defensive items instead of having to buy debuff items.
The only real downside to McGinnis is her turrets having pretty poor targeting. Sometimes they target who you want and sometimes they will target a useless lane creep. Also her ult is pretty bad if you don’t position well. It constantly gets caught on structures/walls and its aiming feels weird and janky.
I’d like them to improve her targeting for turrets. I think there’s a few ways they could do it. Any 1 of these suggestions would feel good IMO
1. Make it where they automatically target who is shooting, she needs to land 15-20 bullets on the target to build a “debuff” for turret priority. That way there’s a delay and they all don’t just snap and melt someone immediately on 1 bullet. And they will go on who she wants them to go on.
2. When she lands a wall, that person gets priority for turrets so her kit synergizes with itself and you have to aim your wall better to get max value.
3. The turrets auto target enemy hero’s fighting within the range of your heal beacon. So if anyone dives you, you can drop that to get the sustain and turn the fight for her.
Wraith's biggest weakness. Indoors, lifting enemies and their head hitbox is in the ceiling and unhittable.
not rescue beam for viscous? im surprised to hear that. it feels like it was made for him honestly
Rescue beam is great on Viscous!
@@AverageJonas oh ok i misunderstood what you said then
Haze as A tier is actually insane in my opinion. Her damage is huge, probably the highest damage ultimate in the game right now. She pops silencer and unstoppable, and there is actually no counter to that. Metal skin exists, but only lasts 3s while her ult can last 10+. Your only hope is that you can run away, but if the Haze positions properly then that becomes impossible. I am absolutely certain that she will be nerfed again in the next patch. And this is coming from a Haze player. For reference, I have 22 games, and 20 wins on her.
There are so many ways to stop her ult early with stuns or return fire even. Buying unstoppable sets her damage back a lot. Its a late game item. Also that early cheap bullet resistance items now make her damage low. You can just punch her to death. She needs more time to come online now which is fine since she is a late game hyper carry. But until then you're like 5.5 vs 6 in the early to mid game
See so many people saying haze is weak early game etc. She prob has one of the best guns for securing souls and denies and the sleep sets up an almost guaranteed kill in duo lane or guaranteed big damage in a solo lane @xristossjiero4583
I think making tier list is too early to tell for the patch, you cant assume what could happend based on numbers. just like every other game when making balances and we see what we dont expect. I think we should wait maybe a week to see whats actually good and whats not
I make one pretty much every other week, because people seem to love watching them:) I totally agree that we have no idea how the meta will turn out to be, but that doesnt mean I should wait with making videos that perform well and causes a lot of discussion, thats kinda what we want out of an early access game:) its not about being right or wrong
@@AverageJonas Oh well in that case I’m sorry. Ur right its some early thoughts and predictions
Been really enjoying the Grey Talon buffs. It does bite that his laning is more awkward from the attack speed reduction, but the base damage increase atleast lets him poke better in that early phase to bully folk with two left feet. Dunno what could make his current bad matchups less unbearable.
This is such a healthy tier list for a competitive game
if only mirage's bullets applied toxic bullets with 3 hits and not 4 then ricochet + toxic bullets would be nuts for him
As someone who mains Vindicta the only thing I’ve really noticed is her firing rate. The only effect that has on my build really is early game though cause if I’m in a solo lane it’s hard to keep up with my enemy vs in a duo lane I can rely on my partner to help with last hits and finishing waves. Late game is still almost the same I build for damage output and a little bit of firing rate while enough cooldown reduction where I have maybe 1-2 seconds after I fall from the air that I will be back up in, she is still good but I agree the nerfs were needed she was busted 😂. If you play vindicta and you’re in a solo lane you need to learn how to play from behind on laning phase, last hit enemies with your ult when you get out of laning phase and catch back up in farm fast.
Mo and krill player here, I love the changes they made but he definitely needs some nerfs on either the heal or burrow. The heal needs nerfed base wise to make him a little easier to punish early. His burrow has to much value later because of movement speed buff. So maybe nerf the buff you get at tier 3. There are many items that can make up for nerfs on his healing and movement speed so i think it would help put him in a counterable state. I found myself winning most my lanes. Im not that great at shooters but im great at running down players with the mole.
I get that it's just an opinion, but a lot of it is based on too many "what ifs." Personally, I think Wraith is stronger than Paradox because of her skillset. Coming from LoL, I’m still getting used to this game’s cooldowns since I’ve only played about 50 games of Deadlock. But in my opinion, if a character forces multiple players to burn long cooldowns in exchange for their own 40-60 second ability, that’s not balanced. And you mentioned the "what if" scenario where they have certain cooldowns, but what if they don’t? You did the same with Paradox, saying IF she has a good team playing around her abilities, then she’s A-tier. But that could apply to almost any character in any game. To me, she’s strong but lacks carry potential, and putting her in the same tier as minor hyper carries seems crazy, considering she’s more of an assist bot with less playmaking ability than even Lash, who’s ranked lower. Too many "what ifs" and hypotheticals. Loved the video anyways!!
I think you have to remember that this isnt a carry potential tier list :) Some heroes are designed to 1v9 games, some are designed to enable your team. thanks for the feedback!
Kind of wild to watch you struggle on mirage yesterday and then hear you give advice on him today. Mirage ricochet with the right items is boss in end game team fights. You can steal rejuv with his 1. He is really powerful all game both in team fights and 1v1 if you build him right. Literally can debuff targets to -35% bullet resist instantly and keep them still for two seconds of headshots. This list will be getting changed as you learn him more.
+1 on the ricochet buy.
Can be much more conservative positioning wise and hold your 1 for if the enemy tries to focus you. Then just keep building stacks on everyone in the moshpit.
The fact that he can punish people for grouping while staying at a safe distance is incredible. He surpasses even infernus at doing this imo, since he needs less shots to land in order to get his proc and just applying it slows for 80 effing % This also means you can jiggle peak during the cooldown between stack applications to stay even safer.
@@randomname2366 yeah, I was sceptical when he mentioned to not go for ricochet.
I've only played him twice, one time with and one time without ricochet. The time I got ricochet felt like such a big power increase, even moreso than Haze and Infernus.
Haze and Infernus need to be up close and personal to get good use out of their weapons and abilities. Enemies aren't going to be hiding around corners that much when you're that aggressive.
However, with Mirage, you can harass enemies from afar. When an enemy has some multiplier on them, they're likely to get behind cover and wait for it to run out, at this point, Ricochet becomes extremely useful, because now you can use their teammates or minions, to continue increasing their stacks, and you can remain at your safe distance.
Assassinate damage is still too high. 140 + 20% for headshot = 168 before items. As soon as Vindicta gets ult she gets 168 x 3 (504) burst damage instantly assuming she DOESNT immediately skill extra damage into her ult and DOESNT drop you below the damage bonus threshold. I have no idea how this keeps dodging significant nerfs.
The tornament is today and half of the games have McGinnis
Like I said happy to be proven wrong!:)
Lash in B just tells me it is time for a round of buffs 🥰
Ricochet mirage synergises with his e tho. I tried it once and everyone on the enemy team was just permanently slowed.
Also, non moba players ssly underrate the puching power it provides and how valuable fast pushes are. Its an efficiency game. And early ricochet allows to push faster which leaves you with opportunities to make plays.
You can literally go aids mirage builds and just spread nasty on hit effects such as toxic bullets and his e on everyone lo'
Facts, I feel like he actualy scales pretty well too
I tried that too but IMO its way too slow and you’re not taking advantage of his extreme ganking and split push power, ricochet is for late game hyperscalers like infernus and haze. I dont think just because your hero has an on hit effect you automatically should buy ricochet. I could see it being useful in a spirit build maybe but thts extremely greedy
Mirage gets a free wraith ult on his 1 while going invunerable, gaining bullet evasion and nutty damage. Seems balanced
these were on point!
I feel as though miriage could be an amazing spirit build team fighter. I have not tried gun build on him yet, but his pasive mixed with richochet and mystic reverb has been reallyyyyy good for me. improved burst duration extender etc. are really strong with his 3/passive. Combine this with his tornado which will pickup a whole team... Richochet hitting each and every one of them. You can get your passive stacks on each soo fast, and when you need a quick heal you just press three. only works of course if you have spirit lifesteal. I just think that he is an incredible spirit build for team fights specificly. this build is not great in 1v1 to 1v2/3 senarios. I will have to check out your gun build but spirit seems extremely viable in my opinion
The problem is you need many expensive items for that payoff and you Will never out damage wraith, infernus, haze with the same amount of items. His strong ability is his ult not his E. Global presence early means great ganks and easy soul urn. So buying good early items will help your team get the lead and allow actual hyper carries to come online faster. You won't ever out damage an infernus if you both have 40k souls.
Sad to see talon so low. Just started playing him and using your ult build and have dominated lobbies
Nothing wrong with playing him man! At the end of the day games are for fun!
Haze also had a buff by having lucky shot, mystic shot, tesla bullets proc now which is huge. This means her ult can still dish out hugedps and her primary gun still fucking shreds too. with Ricochet and Lucky shot + a couple t3 t4 active items to use on enemies shes very strong still
The buff Haze got was nerfed in every aspect from Fire Rate items, so she lost half the firerate she used to have before this patch, and her 4 would hit enemies ricochet behind walls (not anymore)
@@Beamer2ez you can still get her fire rate up enough with the right items like active reload, kinetic dash, qsr, etc
What are you talking about? Lady geist is quite vulnerable laner but later she scales like crazy. Best splitpusher in the game.
lady geist is easily S or top of A after buff, she hard carry lobbies with over 100k dmg per game. please take a reevaluation on her
I agree with you on McGinnis but I feel about her the way you described Infernus. Good kit, fun to play, not overly strong, but also not underpowered. Shes ok where shes at and it likely wont be a high level or pro play hero but thats totally ok.
Personally I believe that seven should be at the same place as haze because of his first ability it makes it to where he can hyper farm faster than anyone and he can control lanes by himself with a whole team pushing with his 1 and 3 together sevens first ability can be scaled to the moon if you play him right I made my own build for him that I am still tweaking a bit but trust me use his 1 more than anything else and you just win
ALL my homies hate Kelvin
I think wraith is an S tier hero in the right hand in a Solo lane. Like you said she is a lane demon. I watched a replay, I dominated a lane forced 3 rotations. And made huge nw lead for my team.
Curious if you've played Shiv yet - I think these nerfs really hurt him. Its noticeably harder to keep your rage up now and your whole kit is weaker without it. I also keep going up against Pockets and the community is learning pocket ult is a free kill on Shiv and im getting focused by it alot. I hope they change that interaction.
Not sure I agree with not buying ricochet on Mirage. You dont buy it so you can farm jungle. You buy it so you can split push super fast and use his ult to do so safely. It also makes him a much bigger threat in team fights by applying the debuff to multiple opponents at once.
I personally like Mirage tho i have not yet get the hang of his scarabs and my map awareness sucks to bad for his 4 to be usefull for me xD
Im a haze main, and i dont think she fits in A tier, when doing a tier list, i think you also have to look at the meta, there are tons of heroes that have crowd control and can ruin her ult, you basically need to build a Silencer, Unstoppable in order to make sure you can effectively use her ult to the fullest. that takes a lot of farming considering these are very expensive items, by then enemies might have also snow balled, not to mention, she's also not a great laner. But yeah, once she has these items, she can carry the game easily, but again, there are conditions.
Ivy gets buffed because no one plays her correctly in lower elo, she gets stomped because her early is pretty weak
i love mo n krill ulti cooldown. its so short you clear 1 lane wave maybe 1 camp then gank a lane repeat
Mc G just played in tournament grand finals by both teams. Mahjong and krill
Can confirm Haze ult is still broken. Playing as her and playing against her
Lady geist being in B is absolutely criminal lmao
Tierlist side of Deadlock is insane
The thing with warden is people play gun warden, while he has insane Spirit scaling. Like highest in the game
Mirage is absolutely busted.
The new haze ult animation makes it wayyy easier to move out of.
Great list but hard disagree on the Paradox tho. Since there's so much life steal and tanky builds, her burst dmg combo usually just isn't enough especially late game, and they just instantly heal back up after you hit your carbine, and if you miss (skill issue lol but so much movement in this game) you just have to afk for like 20 sec (8 if its late game) bc that's your only good dmg source. How her kit is designed to do dmg just doesn't work very well imo (Pulse grenade is laughable).
The most unique model design goes to 'Infernus' 👏👏
Spirit ivy has always been one of my fav builds in the game. Is it great? Probably not but the wave shove, farming speed, and area denial with Mystic Slow and improved reach plus the buff is so fun. Gun ivy on the other hand feels dead after all the nerfs, no way she’s S Tier overall
Why not just play Lady Gheist, seems like spirit ivy but does way more dmg
@@65rytg Eh, she’s a lot more damage but doesn’t have the slows and stuns and team buffing utility ivy has
the 3s window on grey talon is borked and doesn't work at all same with mo and krill 3 sec
The 3s window 100% works with mo and krill saw it in game maybe it’s just buggy
It is a bit buggy from my testing
I really wanted my autistic owl build to work but it cant feelsbadman
Vindicatas snipe change feels awful imo. Wild that ADS with sharpshooter has a further zoom then the ult now. It’s so disorienting. Hoping they revert that change and leave the rest of the nerfs.
It should work like a sniper in Halo. Pressing 4 once gives you a 2x zoom. Pressing it twice gives a 4x zoom. Pressing it 3 times makes it stop zooming in.
You didnt consider the big buff on rapid recharge for mcginnis
i actually dislike the scope change in this patch; i got so used to the high zoom and now its basically like i have to re learn how to snipe again
I play Kelvin-and I love it.
haze is exactly the same, since they fixed tesla bullets on R [bullet evasion nerf definitely makes her killable during R now tho]
kelvin is still very much S tier. the nades are what’s giga op
i agree 100% on infernus. he is strong but has a lot of counters. debuff remover, anti heal (healbane + toxic) even Ethereal Shift counter him.
The Haze "nerfs" is somewhat offset by the fact that lucky shot now work with her ult. the double stacks per proc is insane for nuking people.
Mirage is definitely the only S+ tier hero
You seemed to have miss clicked and put Kelvin in A instead of S
Have you tried on Mirage building ricochet with escalating exposure then keep on spamming 1stack then pop them immediately? The stacks of escalating exposure that builds off of them is disgusting lmao
Great list I skipped to the end but I agree
Nice list. Thanks Jonas.
Lash no changes and bottom 6? Looks like I'm playing TF2 for a couple more weeks. Cya next patch!
Mirage is S. End of story. Thanks for vid
so which heros have the heighest skill ceiling?
Pocket viscous lash i think! Not sure if i forgot one
Kelvin is still a great support role
no i love kelvin
Its crazy, i had this conversation about mcginnis like every patch
INCLUDING TODAY
A friend of mine who is fairly good ((not pro level, but top 15% tier)) that absolutely hates playing against mcginnis.
I think what it REALLY is , is that some characters HATE playing into turrets. They cant gun them down fast enough, and sp she gets to decide "i dont need to run" and just wins fights by herself
I hate playing with and against ginnis, but thats about it, its just annoying 😂
My guy put Ivy (that was second worst character before the nerf that tripled her cooldowns) in S and Seven (the easiest to play character in the game that's top 1 WR in all brackets beside top1%) in B.
Literal driftwood tier MMR 🤣
Im the only viscous i ever see but he keeps getting nerfed xD
Rip my boi
But that's how the game's matchmaking works, no same heros in same game
absolute gamer words
Only think i hate on Yamato this patch is that 1 button can now pre cancel the ability.,.... WHYYY WHYYY :( Else love that my two most played Hero are strong this path in pocket and yamato :D
Lady Geist Players I love you all I’m a one trick respect to my fellow enjoyers it’s a tricky character
She’s the only one I feel comfortable playing