Yeah same. I personally believe characters that have no flaws (like Rey and Captain Marvel) can be done well even then (Superman has no flaws either, and he's been done well). But directors are lazy and just try to have the character be sustained by something as silly as their gender. And there was a lot of infighting with Rey's development, too.
Hating something implies you actually care on some level. Therefore apathy, which many regard Rey with, is far more damaging to a character and piece of fiction than any hate could be
Carlo el dibujante I think they wasted the potential by putting Luke in an island to divert attention from him to Rey, they made Han a bad father and made Han and Leia divorce. Not to mention making Rey a Mary Sue. I think they should’ve used Lucas’ scripts instead of JJ Abrams
I hate Rey because literally every major achievement from beloved characters from previous movies had to be nullified in order for her own achievements to appear convincing
So true. She's nothing but a petty thief, looting the corpses of *the* characters that we love to build her own "heroic" image. Nothing she has is earned; it's all stolen.
As a character she was way too shallow and not interesting enough. There was a lot more potential in the beginning, but the development of the character was blocked by all the action scenes.
Shmi never lost a hand. Is Leia not a Skywalker anymore? In the Expanded Universe, none of Luke's descendants lost their hands. So they're not Skywalkers anymore? (I know this a joke but I don't know why anyone says this because it makes no sense)
@@DonVigaDeFierro Yeah she kinda is. I sometimes joke that the sequel trilogy is a reverse harem anime, but I guess that’s more accurate lol. I mean she’s even a brunette, “attractive but not quite make girls watching insecure attractive” white girl (though that’s a bit of a disservice to Daisy because I’m sure most of the generic feel is from the script). Then again they’re basically two sides of the same coin aren’t they.
@@sportsgamer8524 I dont get why holdo was hated. I forget she exists cause she is so boring. That is her problem. and I dont see why she pisses poeple off cause if she is so boring then know one should be offended: edited
@@jesseanderson8674 her plan is just stupid. What advantage is there to leaving the entire crew in the dark. Compare it to the Clone Wars arc where Obi-Wan is undercover as a bounty hunter with Anakin and Ahsoka trying to catch him. Leaving Anakin in the dark was very consequential for the plan and could have ruined it.
alienclay2 No, Anakin. They claimed that she was the new chosen one, Anakin’s lightsaber was renamed to Rey’s lightsaber and she defeated Palpatine instead of Anakin
@@ImTheReverse I can't tell if this is a joke or being sarcastic. Rey was overpowered and Kylo was a 40 year old man in real life who was acting like a mad teenager! I would give Rey a C- and Kylo an F
There was no reason to have her be a Palpatine. She didn’t try to turn him to good or love him. He didn’t care about her. Compare Anakin and Luke. They had identical interaction in childhood, namely, none. But since Palpatine was shoehorned into the third movie, there was no time to develop a relationship between the two. And even if they had one, it would have rehashed the OT. And if it had failed, it would have been a downer ending.
I was expecting her clear impulsiveness, and how she was sometimes quick to anger, would lead to some arc about how she's only only able to use the force because she's blindly using the dark side... But Nah, those aren't faults, she's always right and she's just the bestest Jedi Evar.
Thor, you don't need to add a percentage point to C when it comes out as 99, that skews the numbers, if only minimally. You can just add it together and then divide by 99 instead of 100.
@@cinthyaoceguera4321 Well... you're not wrong. However, I personally put Rey higher then Leia because Leia reminds me of my mom who I don't always get along with. Leia sometimes brings up bad memories. That is kind of ironic since Anakin is my second favorite since he mirrors myself.
So about what id expect. I can't say I "hate" her, per se, just that.... well.. yeah I hate what she became. she is an extremely underdeveloped character. I actually feel bad for her. She, like the entire trilogy, had much potential but was brutally mishandled. But yeah I kinda hate her.
Twan Theunisz well yeah, Anakin is a negative character arc, and he’s the antagonist of the story, the challenge to over come for Obi Wan in the Prequels and Luke in the Originals.
I don't think that Rey as a stand alone character was the problem, per say. The problem was in the way that every other character's actions and behaviours would be distorted by the writers in order to show Rey in the best way possible, established characterisation and lore be damned. She became like a black hole in the centre of the SW universe, with the writers clumsily warping the story around her rather than allowing her navigate the narrative herself. It's such embarrassingly amateurish storytelling and it completely ruins the character.
That's literally the original definition of a Mary Sue. It's when the plot bends over backwards to make the character remain perfect and better than anyone. Characters can be at god levels and still not have the story bend around them, like Superman or Anakin Skywalker. Mary Sue characters consume everyother plot detail, story element, and character around them. Google the original Mary Sue short story (it's like 3 paragraphs). It was a satire of bad fanfiction tropes sent to a Star Trek fanfic magazine. It was written by a female editor. It's not a sexist term. Actually scratch that's, found it for you... Here it is the story that created the term. Mary Sue A TREKKIE'S TALE By Paula Smith "Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. "Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet - only fifteen and a half years old." Captain Kirk came up to her. "Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?" "Captain! I am not that kind of girl!" "You're right, and I respect you for it. Here, take over the ship for a minute while I go get some coffee for us." Mr. Spock came onto the bridge. "What are you doing in the command seat, Lieutenant?" "The Captain told me to." "Flawlessly logical. I admire your mind." Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship. But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood. However the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.
@@schwarzerritter5724 In most cases that's fairly accurately, however there are a few stories out there where almost everything is great... except the authors pet character who is the exception to the rule in that story. Then it gets very debatable if it's a Mary Sue story or just a Mary Sue moment, in an overall very good story. It's a case of all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Or put another way all Mary Sue stories have a Mary Sue character, but not all Mary Sue characters are in clear Mary Sue stories.
She could've been a much better character with only a little script tweaking. The whole Disney Trilogy is a giant example of "coulda been": Rey could've been a Great Character who becomes a Great Jedi trained by Luke Skywalker. Instead they gave her a sort-of redemption arc without her ever having fallen enough to need redeeming. Finn could've been one of the greatest Star Wars characters ever. They made him the black side-kick. Poe could've been a great character, an inspirational leader, and a heroic hero. But they made him an impotent, incompetent jock. Kylo could've been as complex and cool a character as Zuko. Instead they made him the fan ship of the series. Hux could've been Star War's Starscream. But they made him such a joke, they had to replace him with someone actually good at being a bad guy in RoS. Phasma could've been a really threatening villain. She was the flippin' Granny Goodness of the First Order. But they made her a consolation random-pop-up mini-boss for Finn's red-herring, meaningless side plot in TLJ. The Knights of Ren could've been cool villains. The were simply forgotten. Snoke could've really been 30 feet tall because a normal-sized character couldn't have contained all that evil. But they made him a gold-bath-robe wearing Trump stand-in joke who gets chopped in half by the oldest trick in the Sith book. Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, and the droids could've gotten one last group appearance on-screen (like they gave the original Trek cast in Star Trek: the Undiscovered Country). But their fear that the original characters would upstage the new characters made them kill or neuter them. Which only highlights how the new characters are pale imitations of the originals and everyone at Lucasfilm KNEW IT.
@Honey Badger Yeah I liked Rey a lot but the sequels were just a big missed opportunity. Daisy Ridley did a great job in making Rey lovable even with some bad writing
I've just re-watched the "Hunger Game" saga recently and it made me realise how nothing's happenning to Rey compare to Katniss who goes through so much shit. The stronger are the struggle, the stronger is the character.
Not everyone hates her there are ‘Rey defenders out there, obviously a lot of children are going to look up to her’ I personally don’t hate her but dislike her, she not really understanding character
Luke Skywalker .... Self insert, but a given an arc where he was allowed to fail. Making him a full person. Rey Nobody-Palpatine-Skywalker ... Self insert who was a symbol of "female empowerment" who wasn't allowed to fail and therefore failed to evolve into a relatable person.
Rey and Kylo to me are just watered down plagiarised versions of Jaina Solo and Jacen Solo / Darth Caedus. I certainly don't hate em, but I honestly don't see them as iconic Star Wars characters as the classics like Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda etc. For Rey specifically, I like her overall design with the hanging scarf-robes, especially the TROS version of her robes, it makes her look very agile and Jedi-like. But looking =/= being. Rey may look like a Jedi Knight, but she doesn't behave like one, in the way that Luke did for example, for in no point in the Disney Trilogy does she face serious adversity and opposition. She's a Mary Sue through and through, a needlessly OP character that is winning every fight, but also needlesly makes a very dramatic fuss about it afterwards. Yet hell, to prove that I'm not even biased against her despite these fundamental flaws, I'll admit that I even payed a few bucks to get her as a skin in Fortnite back in Xmas, even though I'm technically a Disney Trilogy hater and Phantom Menace supporter and refused to pay to watch TROS in cinema after the Reddit leaks, only buying the Blue-ray on a huge discount many months afterwards. Despite that, I had the fun of my life playing as her in Fortnite while my lightsaber ingame went brrrr, and I still use her from time to time even though lightsabers are not included in Fortnite anymore (made a brief comeback on Star Wars Day / May the 4th). If I had Battlefront II (2017) I imagine that I would play as her there too. All in all, I'd rank her as a B- as a character, and probably place her 20th in my Top 20 fav Star Wars characters.
master106 games we can have both when the EU is continued. The next book trilogy set to come out (before Disney stepped in and canceled it) was a Jaina Solo Trilogy called Sword of the Jedi. When both have content made for them, then we can have both. But at the moment Rey is the only one getting continued content
Obsidian Monolith Back when I learned of the sequel trilogy was in the works I was so intrigued by what direction they would go in. There were so many excellent stories post Return of the Jedi in the expanded universe that would have fit in with the Star Wars world casual fans were familiar with. Those stories by design were literal continuations of the existing Star Wars universe storyline. Then came episode 7 which of course was the story a young adult on a nowhere desert planet who happens upon a droid with secret plans...basically a shameful redo of episode 4 with the plot points lifted and the scale exaggerated to a laughable degree. When I left the theater with my girlfriend at the time (who wasn’t a huge Star Wars fan as I was at that time) I was unimpressed and frankly a little confused. My girlfriend had said in the theater “we’ve seen this before” after the 3rd or 4th obvious nearly exact same shot from episode 4 was shown within 5 minutes of the start of episode 7. It seemed to me like episode 7 was a confusing reboot of episode 4. I went in expecting something new to keep the story going, to keep people excited about new Star Wars stories that expanded the universe on screen and fit with the written expanded universe so many people had been digesting for decades. That I had been. To me it felt like pandering to the nostalgia of “fans” was more important to the writers than story telling. I felt then that episode 8 had better take that obscenely (given how signifying Star Wars has been for millions of fans for decades) low bar and have it exceed the prior high bar if Disney expected to keep Star Wars enthusiasm where it was prior to episode 7. Then came episode 8. Done. I understand now that episode 7 was literally a cash grab by Disney, who did not respect Star Wars or understand it. It was a cobbled together plagiarized script designed to play to the emotions of the largest audience possible with feel good characters designed to show haters what’s what. In other words: crap.Rey is a nothing character. None of the characters are anything more than what they were defined as in their initial introduction. Rey is a Mary Sue and everyone, wether they’re willing to consciously admit or not, knows that she will win and the story just exists to show everyone how. I never especially like Jaina Solo, or the Solo children all that much, but she damn sure was a strong female character who would have infinitely more interesting and relatable than the trash Disney gave us. I had thought honestly the Yuzzahn Vong story arc might surface as it was such a dark period and there was so much action. Plus, you know, there would be the prior trilogies kids leading the charge. Also, Luke Skywalker’s kid Ben Skywalker would show up...you know, with the Solo’s children...instead we ended up with Ben....Solo. Wtf. That was another huge disappointment. Did the writers know they’d made Luke’s son a Solo and had him kind of be a Jacen Solo? Jacen Solo would have been another what would have been amazing story arc that would have showcased how good intentions can lead to evil even when the people doing it mean well. And that leads to...Mara Jade Skywalker...another awesome strong female character who, spoiler alert, Jacen Solo murders. So we could have had Jaina, who became so very much more interesting when she became a Mandalorian (a Mandalorian!), Mara Jade Skywalker, the former Hand of the Emperor, and we ended up with Mary Sue Rey Palpatine and all of that stupid hero worshipping better than everyone literally leading a Calvary charge in space bs. To hell with you Disney for your obscene greed; you have destroyed a multi generational story that has inspired and entertained millions. Just because you knew that a large portion of the fan base would accept anything with a Star Wars label doesn’t mean that you should lower your standards to the level of “have no standards.” I think it’s only a matter of time before the Mandalorian catches the bullet of the Rey effect (flashy effects and zero substance cash grabbing disguised as something meeting what the public “demands”. A polished overpriced turd).
@@Ismail-db1vj With clone wars series and enough time has passed many people have changed their though on anakin Skywalker. I don't think it will happen with Rey do to several reason.
@Darth Cameron The reason why anakin and rey were hated was due to different things. Anakin was mostly hated due to actors poor acting, poor dialogue, a few other problems with prequels films. Not really because of his character and the ERA he in is far more interesting than sequel. Rey is hated because of her character is portrayed as nearly perfect, she learns abilities they took jedi in the past years to learn, defeats kylo Ren who was trained with an actually style by two master while rey never trained with a sword, she is apart of era which is mostly similar to OT which people seen before. To make matter worse clone wars took over 3 years which allowed them to flush out the era besides ankain( between attack of the clones and revenge of the sith) more in contrast the entire sequels take over a year time. With tfa and talk taking place a few min from each other. Their isn't much room for them to try flush out rey character. ( can't comment about legends since I don't know a lot about it)
I don’t hate her she’s just boring. In the ST there are interesting characters like Finn and Kylo but Rey doesn’t have an interesting concept like them in my opinion and there wasn’t much development. They could have made how Thor once said like Aang but they didn’t and she feels now like a boring version of Luke.
Agreed. We already had our in-universe Christ. Rey took Anakin’s background and showed us just how well Lucas wrote Anakin’s story. The dialogue is a different story.
I seem to recall several 'mistakes' the character made, most prominent to me, when Rey destroyed the transport that she thought Chewy was on with accidental beginner use of the lightning force.... and then spent what, 5 min of film time ( a week of 'real time' or ? ) moping about whereas Luke had nothing, blank canvas.
@@rickc661 Rey destroying the transport with a discharge of Force Lightning had no consequences, as the "twist" was chewie was on another transport and she could sense chewie's position, and she never used Force Lightning ever again despite actually going into a blind rage to the point she punted Finn with the force and she killed Kylo... which had no consequences because her Force Healing has no consequences. Her entire revenge motivation which is supposed to be a huge mistake for Jedi to pursue and should have been a flaw had no consequences at all. Even her killing Palpatine, which should have resulted in the consequence of Palpatine possessing her, had its consequence removed and invalidated. When mistakes have no consequences to them they are not really mistakes are they? Oh and, keep in mind the entire Rise of Skywalker movie is on a 16 hour story timer.
@@rickc661 Even if you interpret is as a mistake, shooting lightning is a blatant mary sue moment, as she has no prior knowledge that it can be done, she didnt train to use it.
AC Air Conditioning - I commented somewhere (Pinterest?) that I thought Rey was a boring character with no flaws, and someone’s immediate response was to call me a “neck beard.” (Within days of someone else calling me a feminist killjoy.) It struck me that for many, the knee jerk reaction to a *Star Wars opinion* is to write the guilty party off as an irredeemable bigot. It’s intellectually lazy-the greatest crime of all-but it’s also par for the course in virtually every issue these days. Diverge even slightly from what’s become the approved party line, even with utterly mundane and moderate views, and you’re instantly a “fascist.”
Darth Cameron I’d say she is a strong character because of several reasons. Being a politician makes her one of Star Wars’ most unique characters. She constantly puts herself in danger for the greater good. She’s a good shot and can get out of a sticky situation but isn’t a warrior which keeps the stakes high. Her relationship with Anakin is interesting. They are two people who are very inexperienced in romance but care for each other. Padmé’s idealism is a nice contrast with a lot the other senators who are not always willing to stand up for their people. She has quite a few flaws. She never saw Anakin’s turn coming. Overall I’d say she is a likable character and does some pretty interesting things (acting as a spy, assisting Satine, investigation the banks).
@Bad Boys Boogie I'm not a misogynistic sexist! I mistreat and judge everyone by gender equally! Even robots and my bike. Gina Carano from The Mando would have played a lovely Mara Jade. Space Xena Warrior Princess in space.
Rey didn’t loose any limbs, therefore she isn’t a real Star Wars hero. Edit: I was making a snarky comment, of course loss of limbs isn’t a Star Wars protagonist prerequisite - y’all are 100% correct to point out that Leia & Obi-Wan didn’t lose any body parts (Unless Obi-Wan losing his entire body at death counts). Neither did Chewie or Han (though the latter was frozen in carbonite, that is physical trauma, right?). Neither did Padmé - worst she got was scratches and blaster wounds, which is par for the course really - nor Poe or Finn (though I guess he got his back seriously wounded?). I was really more pointing out that there’s a lot less loss of limbs due to lightsabers in the Disney movies. Y’all needn’t take a one year old obviously tongue in cheek comment so seriously
@@ntokozomazibuko6745 no, because obi wan wasn't the main character. Anakin was. Then Luke was. Then Rey was. If she is supposed to be a Skywalker, she should lose an arm
Rey isn’t a character, she has been forced to become an idol of figurehead for women equality in films only she failed at that part too, she wasn’t likeable in my opinion throughout any of the films, she was overpowered sooo much that she could beat a TRAINED SITH and that whole palpatine granddaughter thing turned the whole sequel trilogy into a massive JOKE. I don’t dislike Rey because in my opinion she isn’t a character just a waste of potential (no offence to daisy Ridley)
stout alarm837 they did what the Old Republic completely shutdown: Force wielders will always have Force wielding family members or offspring. Theron Shan, son of the Grand Master Satele Shan and Republic Commando Cpt Jace Malcom, and descendant of Revan himself had no aptitude with The Force at all. Nothing there. But this didn't this drag him down to just commoner levels as a character. Man went on to become one of the best SIS agents The Republic ever had to infiltrate the Sith Empire. Why in the fuck couldn't Rey just have had average force potential and work her way up to the (relative) top of the pecking Order like Obi-Wan ? Like damn man...
@@stoutalarm8374 she's the kind of anomaly that the ancient Sith Emperor would've done anything to get his hands on. And if she proved too slippery or strong willed, she would then be condemned to death by the dark entity. What could not serve would be destroyed... But knowing Rey and the Disney writers, she'd be able to battle Valkorion on even footing and even scare the ~1200 YO demon into running or killing itself. Just thinking if that scenario made me nauseous. A single Dark Council member would merc most of the Disney Canon with relative ease. Only when the high tiers of the Canon verse show themselves does shit get serious...
This is why this Thor is my favorite Star Wars RUclipsr (beside Theroy) He talks about Star Wars from a civil side not hate or loving the movies and gave me a point of view of Star Wars I like TFA, TLJ was average, and TROS was meh. I still watch his vid because he gave me a different point of view of Star Wars not just the Sequels but the whole saga PS: People Don’t get made at me liking the sequels everyone has opinions
As individual movies I actually enjoy the sequels (for the most part). My issue is with them as both a trilogy and as part of the saga, they feel so disconnected. But in Thor's comments, I doubt you'll get much hate, same in Theroy's.
I don't hate Rey at all, but I can certainly agree that her character was misleading even if they made her a Palpatine. But at least Daisy Ridley does a good performance I'll give her that. It's good if you like the sequel trilogy, no one should be crucified just because they like what they like.
Since Rey grew up alone as a scavenger on a desert planet, I would have liked to see her reaction to rain, to the sea, to food, to coldness, to parties, to a comfortable bed, what skills she has picked up in survival and from scrapping ships, what habits she would have kept from that life. But it seems that after they leave Jakku, all that the movie's showed us about her is forgotten and doesn't matter anymore : /
Can we all appreciate that Finn was supposed to be a Jedi, and that would’ve been the coolest part of the series. There were many plot holes, but I’d have forgiven them for Jedi Finn.
I don’t hate Rey but she is a wasted potential just like the rest of the Sequel Trilogy characters. TLJ really ruined the Sequel Trilogy in my honest opinion.
Agreed, though I for one do hate her. I hate overpowered Mary Sues. They’re not interesting at all. There’s no drama, no real sense of personal struggle to deal with, no sense of character development or progress. Luke Skywalker started out as a naive farm boy who was an experienced pilot, one who dreamed of something bigger than the life he was living, but had no knowledge of how to use the force. His naïveté nearly gets him killed numerous times in A New Hope and Empire. It is only in the final film in the trilogy that we see that he has matured into the Jedi Knight the galaxy needed to save it. He earned the title of hero. Rey is a scavenger who hasn’t flown the ship and received no training in combat or from a Jedi, yet by the end of the first film she is using the force and beats a trained Dark Side user. The entire time I was watching her on the big screen, I felt like I was watching some fanfic writer’s OC brought to life. She doesn’t earn her abilities through training, or become stronger through her failure. She’s just strong and has powers for no reason. By the end of the final film very little has changed in terms of development and growth. It didn’t feel like she earned the title of hero, but rather we were just expected to see her as such. Hell, even in the prequel trilogy, with all their flaws, there is at least a sense of character development for Anakin. We see a descent into darkness that culminates in the events of Revenge of the Sith. Rey? She starts out as a super strong character with force powers and ends up a strong character with force powers. Whenever she is in danger, she just pulls a new force power out of her ass and suddenly she’s in control of the situation again. She doesn’t need to be rescued, her failures (if you can even call them that) don’t cost her as dearly as the failures of Luke and Anakin cost them. She’s just an all around boring, uninteresting, Mary Sue.
Hate’s a strong word. I moreso hate the direction they took with Rey, though I like the base idea of her character and Daisy Ridley is a great actress.
That comment at 13:23 is spot on. When she beat Kylo she not only became boring by beating 'her' rival, she also emasculated him and made him far less imposing as a villian. This also hurt TLJ as Rian Johnson selfishly demolished any major plot threads by the end of that movie sans the mystery of Kylo and Rey, that was not that engaging itself due to TFA and TLJ, thus killing any real excitement or reasoning for TROS.
I loved your small little fix of the last Jedi always where you described Rey being too late and fin actually giving his life to save the rebellion. I’ve always thought that would be a better way to end the movie. That also presents the perfect position for proper, well executed subversion of our expectations because we would expect Rey to swoop in and save the day but she’s too late.
Rey is that. A character that was written. She isn’t real, and so she should be judged as she was written. What you meant was that she was a good idea. She is her writing and therefore should be hated for it being so bad
TheReal Dragonz are you really trying to tell me what I meant? What I meant was, she was a poorly written character. Do not try and make it any more deeper than that. I did not mean she was a good idea, your arrogance is amazing. Thanks for pointing that she is made up and not real. I was beginning to wonder why after all this time she never returned my calls. Your logic is incredibly flawed.
J S I read what you said wrong- I thought you said that people don’t hate the character- they just hate how she was written. So that is why I replied so arrogantly. I am clearly I’m the wrong I’m this situation
@@master106 Given Thor's hypothesis, "Does everyone 'hate' Rey?", it is impossible to answer the question correctly without conducting a global survey to see what everyone's answer is. Every comment on here is an opinion, so cheers brah for pointing out the blatantly obvious.
You would think that someone who made tons of friends in a week during FA and TLJ, would have had a couple close friends on Jakku. How is it possible that she is basically an asocial hermit for 18 years on Jakku but suddenly makes friends effortlessly whenever on screen. Luke referenced plenty of friends on Tatooine. Rey was alone.
I just watched the original trilogy again ... and it's amazing how good it is, how real the characters are, and how invested you are in the story. That's all lacking in the sequel trilogy. Luke is a real person. He's a sheltered farm boy who is naive but eager to have an adventure ... only he isn't ready for it. He's easily overwhelmed by the Sandpeople, nearly gets killed in a cantina, is too hasty in the negotiations with Han Solo, and has no clue how space travel works. He grows along the way though. He's brave and quick to learn. And throughout the first film, he works as part of a team. Think about that. He never does anything by himself. Obi-Wan helps him. C3P0 and R2 help him. Leia helps him, so does Han and Chewy and the rest of the rebel fighter pilots. Yes, he's the hero, but he is part of a larger effort. And fast forward to Empire, Luke has evolved but he is still very much a novice. He again needs rescuing from the frozen tundra after he was attacked by the ice monster. And he fails nearly every single of Yoda's tests. Furthermore, when he rushes off to confront Vader ... he gets his ass kicked. I mean, Vader was just toying with him. Luke was giving it his all because he wanted to kill Vader, but Vader was simply testing him and ultimately wanted to capture him. It wasn't a close fight ... it was a rout. It isn't until the end of Return of the Jedi that Luke has accomplished his goals and earns the right to be the hero at the end of his journey. Rey? There is no struggle, no adversity. Let's stop beating around the bush here. Rey was written as a feminist Mary Sue. Don't buy it? Look at what Kathleen Kennedy has said. Look at the pictures of Kennedy and all her female staff members wearing shirts saying "the Force is female." Kennedy had a message to spread--that's it. And like most third-wave feminism, that message is predicated on deconstructing what has come before. They had to make Han look like a loser (and completely reverse his character arc from the original trilogy), they had to make Luke seem like a weakling who runs away to hide from trouble (completely reversing his character arc from the original trilogy). They had to make everyone else look incompetent in order to make Rey look so special. And they failed. I'm all for good female characters. Leia is a great character. She's tough, she's confident, she's a force to be reckoned with ... but she's also vulnerable, she has fears and worries ... she works as part of a team to solve problems. There are other female characters in Star Wars that are good examples--Ahsoka being one of them. I hated Ahsoka at the beginning because I found her annoying ... but she grew and I grew to like her. I felt genuine sadness when Ahoska faced off against Vader in Rebels. And I felt genuine loss at the end of Clone Wars with her story all but done (for now). Yes, she seemed a little OP in those final episodes, but I could overlook that given her whole story. It's a shame the sequels were such a disaster.
In my opinion she is too perfect, she does nothing wrong. She doesnt feel like a real human which makes her unrelatable unlike characters like Anakin/Vader, hes far from perfect but you can still feel his suffering and sometimes you can relate to it. The same cant be said about rey.
I like Rey, but I think she just wasn't characterised enough - like they had a set up of her being a unique character kind of like a character with the morality of a Disney princess in the star wars universe she got set up for a unique characterisation more in that 5 min force of destiny episode in the desert than in the films. She could have been really awesome though and Daisy Ridley is a brilliant actress and a really nice person
Rey never had any internal struggle, which is one of the fundamental themes of Star Wars. She didn’t struggle between the light and the dark, she didn’t struggle to master the force, she didn’t really learn anything and she didn’t teach the audience anything. There was no purpose or heart to her story. Also may have liked her more if Disney didn’t destroy the OT characters to make her look better.
There's a moment in Force Awakens, when Rey has just met BB-8, he's asking to come with her, and she's trying to tell him not to. She finally sighs, rolls her eyes, and gives a slight "Come on then" gesture. There's so much more character in that one moment than in the other two films combined, it's tragic. Daisy Ridley was robbed of what should have been a great role.
Can you do an actor-appreciation-video, or a series of it actually, where you go through their other roles and we can discuss how great they are? Especially Gleeson, he is a national treasure here in Ireland. ☘️
Ironically, these so called "haters" are acting very logical and mature in dealing with this Rey problem, giving objective reviews and criticizing based on facts and logic On the other hand, we know how the creators and their mobs treated their audience, with very harsh words and unethical behavior
I don’t love or hate everything about the sequels, but the decision to go the Rey Palpatine route was a let down for me. I found the “Rey is nobody” angle much more compelling and intriguing.
The Sith do tend to be liars. Perhaps Palpatine told her she was his granddaughter for reasons and purposes of his own, like eventually turning her to the dark side. Otherwise, I totally agree with you.
Rey like all the DisneyWars characters started of strong, interesting, with a lot of potential. Strength, interest and potential that was shot into a black hole half way through the film. All because JJA and the KK Klub lost the plot, and turned them all into comic relief and plot devices.
Started off strong? lol... I don't know whether to laugh at Mary Sue level strong or Strongly Weak character Strong! Ahahahaha! And besides... Force Awakens was shit to me. Lack of any STRONG creative decision making except all the copy and pasting of ideas from the Original Trilogy... Watch MauLers Video essays on the Force Awakens and you'll see all the cracks...
@@VerdantJedi So you consider Luke to of started off as a Mary Sue as well then? A number of the complaint's about Reys character can be solved by simply paying attention during her introduction, and not hating her for the sake of hating her. Yes this includes Mauler as well. Her path to Mary-Suedom only begins when she and Finn leave on the Falcon, and she's somehow able to fly it just as well - if not better - than Han. With no training.
I don't hate Rey. I thought she was actually a good character at first. But she was never challenged even once, never lost a battle, she was a beast with a saber the moment she picked one up for the first time. She was just given everything from the start. Just a disappointment
10:09. Nah, you nailed the sentiment. It was what we all were looking for. A flawed person, who because she had flaws like us all, would have been super relatable because of that. Whatever we did get, felt fake and was an unattainable standard to strive for, just like a doctored digital photo to make someone look better than what they actually were. Had the character felt genuine, people would have warmed up to her eventually, but because it felt contrived and fake, people just didn't care for the character (which is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a lead character). Hence, people went to the only other character they knew anything about, which was Finn. Poe had almost zero backstory up until TRoS and even then, we were still told relatively nothing about it. :/
I thought that Rey had a lot of potential to be a great character, like Luke and Anakin, having many layers and being complex and driven by passion, belief, and emotion. However, that turned out to be only a dream since Rey was just very bland, too powerful, had no character growth, and ultimately showed no sort of firm belief in anything or passion for anything either. I was genuinely excited before TFA for Rey, she seemed really cool and fun but Kennedy and Iger dropped the ball.
To me , it's worse that she has perfect lightsaber skills than force skills, as I can feasibly believe that the force could be learned more innately, and again, it's a fictional force, so we don't really know the rules (but it was still lazy writing to not have any kind of developement force-wise). Yes she grew up defending herself, but with a STAFF, a two-handed weapon she could touch without losing a hand. I always assumed a big part of why it takes so much study to be a jedi is partly because you can do much more damage to yourself with a lightsaber than a normal sword, and would have to be disciplined so you would not lose limbs swinging it around. She beats Kylo Ren the first time she activates a lightsaber. No matter how much background she has defending herself, she could never beat someone who trained their WHOLE life in both the force and using a lightsaber. Great video as always thor, thanks for being the middle ground for star wars fans. I'm excited for your reworked sequel trilogy!
@@silvermagpie1071 Fair point, it's just that her skills are represented as much better than even Kylo, especially in the throne room scene where she gets out of every tight spot on her own (which is fine) but then Kylo needs her help to get out of a deadlock
@@emberfist8347 Yes, but the force permeates all things, so it's not out of the question (in my opinion, at least) to learn it innately. How did I get here? I'm defending lazy writing again, crap
The comments, including yours, have all been very insightful and accurate. They sum up Rey pretty well. What _should_ Rey have been? I like what you said about how she should have a hard time trusting. Rey had a harder childhood than Anakin or Luke, they had parental figures while she had no one. By rights that should result in a pretty large amount of trauma. You sort of see that at the beginning of TFA, when she wants to stay on Jakku and wait for her parents even though they're clearly not coming back. But she just sort of gets over this and is soon fixated on helping the Resistance and exploring her place in the Force. I think the real Rey would carry a whole lot of anger towards her parents for abandoning her, and leaving Jakku would mean facing that anger. Like, after their adventure in the Millennium Falcon she should start getting really mad with everyone about everything and not even know why. (Because she's suppressed her despair for so long in the struggle to survive.) Han would be a natural target for this rage (since he's a father), but he dies before she even knows what she's feeling. I guess I'm saying I see Rey as a very angry person, at least at first, who would have a hard time believing in anything or anyone. In the first movie this wouldn't come up much because she's sort of thrown into one situation after another. But what if she refused to look for Luke at the end and sought out Kylo instead? Then in the second movie Finn and Poe and Rose could try and convince Luke to come back while Kylo and Rey are drawn together by their rage against their parents. Maybe we could even find out why Kylo hated his dad so much. Then, heck, why not have Kylo _and_ Rey fight Luke, and it's only in that fight that Rey realizes she's almost lost her soul. At the last moment she switches sides and together Rey, Luke and the Resistance manage to avoid complete annihilation. Maybe Luke dies in the process. The third movie opens with Rey on the Light side, but with some serious mental baggage she still needs to understand. Leia could have helped with that. I like the idea of a more complicated Rey/Leia relationship than what we saw. Rey should feel guilty about Luke's death but still angry and distrustful of parental figures. Leia sees this and gently guides her through it.
I don’t hate Rey, never have. I really love the idea of her character being a young, inexperienced female Jedi, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that and it’s a character type that is missing from Star Wars. Also don’t hate Daisy Ridley, I think she did a fine job at portraying her. The problem is that the sequel movies are just bad, not because of Rey but because of their plots and their lack of world building.
@Lionard Kirsch Some certainly have a problem with just Rey altogether, but I agree I think the real problem is what they did with her, which is nothing.
@@emberfist8347 Not for people who are fans of the movies. I would love for Ahoska to have been more prominent in the films but she wasn't so it's not really fair to make that statement.
@@emberfist8347 That is a pretty ridiculous statement to make lol. Some people just aren't interested in animated Star Wars, you can't call them "not real fans" because of that.
I’m a fan of Rey just because of how good Daisy’s performance was. She really showed that she appreciated the fandom and was very excepting of criticism.
Daisy did great acting the part and working with the script and story she was given. I would have loved it if the 2nd movie was all about her descent to the dark side and Finn and BB8 were on a journey to bring her back to the light while Poe did his cowboy thing and Leia had to actually fight Kylo. Maybe her death would have been the thing to bring Luke out of hiding. Idk, this is all off the top of my head. Regardless, I like Daisy and think she had great chemistry with all the others on screen. Wish Finn was a more fleshed out character too.
Your own Version!?! That's AWESOME!!!! Way to Go!!! I'd offer to pitch in art wise, old school by hand though, would have to wend it by mail too. However I've started working on my own FanFilm series! A TON of work and I've just begun writing and sketching out characters and collecting the costume bits...and building the miniature sets....and everything else. Lol. REY...I LOVED her! At first, because really effective intro but...then the natural Force Sensitive Prodigy angle kicked in and it went full on Mary Sue. What growth did she experience? What Story did she have? I have to Struggle to come up with one. I dont have to do that for Any Other character arc in either of the previous two Trilogies. It wasnt Me being Resistant to her, quite the opposite. The STORY she went through was just Terrible in every way. Not Daisy's Fault. But sadly this cannot be said of Just her character, it's also unfortunately true for every character portrayal, new and OG roles were Full of Amazing POTENTIAL. Sadly the writers, directors etc without an overall plot arc were Clearly OVERWHELMED or just Lacked the chops, life experiences or Wisdom to Forsee That Potential and Capitalize upon it.
Rey is a great character. Could've been even better. She's charismatic and she feels sincere and wide eyed allow us to share her excitement at being in this amazing world. I have no idea why people say she doesn't have fears, struggles, or doubts - she's has more of those than any other Star Wars main character. Sure she's op, but so what. Why would that ruin anything?
"Let him without sin..." I don't hate Rey at all. It's just that the character should have been better developed and fleshed out. Me? If I were writing a story for Star Wars Episode X, I'd certainly concentrate on further developing the character, exposing her flaws and giving her some real challenges. Rey is still redeemable. PS: Mila Jovovich should play an older Rey in a future Star Wars movie. Yes, seriously!
My personal opinion is she's awesome. After only seeing the Force awakens she was already established as my all time favourite character in the entire saga. She pretty much had me at "the garbage will do" And making her a Palpatine makes her even better. I love that she's over powered as some might say. But then so was Anakin. They make a point of saying how the force is strong in the Skywalker family, like they're something special. So I have no problem with the possibility that there just might be someone out there stronger than the beloved chosen one. An ant among fleas can seem like a giant, but it's still just an ant. Or as Qui Gon would put it, there's always a bigger fish. And it seems to fit with what Luke said in The last Jedi. How he became a legend because of how he stood up to the emperor and liberated Darth Vader and restored Anakin Skywalker to the light side. But Luke doesn't see himself as anything special. He's just a man who isn't perfect. And he makes mistakes, just like everyone else. And I think Last Jedi does a good job of making that point. What was I talking about again? Oh yes. I love Rey.
Why do you think negative emotions are worse than positive ones? The two are just as valid, this type of thinking is what led to the PC rhetoric of positivity. There is a reason these are hated, and thats because they love the OT or the prequels, and the sequels destroyed the lore.
I think that Kipo Oak is a good example of a 'friend maker' character. She tries so hard to befriend every single person she meets in the show (literally), but many times she struggles or outright fails to do so, despite making plenty of other friends
Please respond to this comment with your nomination for which character we should do next. Or just vote with a thumbs up if they're already listed.
Tarkin.
Echo
Boba fett
Cal
Revan
I loved Rey in the first scenes I saw her scavenging and her normal days on Jakku. Then it's all downhill from there.
Smae
Concur
I knew it was going to go bad when she saved BB
Exactly this. Things started fine, but never actually got good.
I thought they were going with a “what if Han had force powers” angle. Make her actually have to resist the quick and easy path of the dark side
I don’t hate Rey, I just hate what Disney tried to do with her
Same here. She was....fine and would have been cool but the writers just ruined her
Matthew Roberts agreed
I agree Disney wasted a lot the sequels potential and I mean a lot
Henry McCann ll the most interesting character arc was probably Finn, and that’s probably the best they did
Yeah same. I personally believe characters that have no flaws (like Rey and Captain Marvel) can be done well even then (Superman has no flaws either, and he's been done well). But directors are lazy and just try to have the character be sustained by something as silly as their gender. And there was a lot of infighting with Rey's development, too.
Hate her?
Mmm maybe not.
Find her boring?
Yes
⬆️
Hating something implies you actually care on some level. Therefore apathy, which many regard Rey with, is far more damaging to a character and piece of fiction than any hate could be
@@dylangerig4915 so true
@@dylangerig4915 You're right. Rey says nothing to me, except about the low skill of her writers
@Optimus Prime
You misspelled Palpatine
We don’t hate Rey, we just hate how much of her potential was wasted
Honestly all the sequel trilogy had a great potential in Episode 7 but...in the end, we have a very bad trilogy, it's just sad
Carlo el dibujante I think they wasted the potential by putting Luke in an island to divert attention from him to Rey, they made Han a bad father and made Han and Leia divorce. Not to mention making Rey a Mary Sue. I think they should’ve used Lucas’ scripts instead of JJ Abrams
True, I honestly I feel bad for the actors and Star Wars Rey's character was wasted
Well Put.
I only hate Rey for what she represents. And what she represents, regardless of the intent of the creators, is lazy writing and storytelling.
I hate Rey because literally every major achievement from beloved characters from previous movies had to be nullified in order for her own achievements to appear convincing
So true. She's nothing but a petty thief, looting the corpses of *the* characters that we love to build her own "heroic" image. Nothing she has is earned; it's all stolen.
She represents everything wrong with the sequels
@Darth Revan The character of Rey is part of the game. We have nothing against the actor.
I don’t hate her, but she is just the most dull, uninteresting, bad fan fic character to ever be in Star Wars
A Mary Sue perfect boring character with no redeemable qualities and a ridiculous amounts of rienforced plot armor
As a character she was way too shallow and not interesting enough. There was a lot more potential in the beginning, but the development of the character was blocked by all the action scenes.
Yeah you are right f*cking Mary Sue
Agreed
its like.it was written by a child....*rey is the super best at everything because shes brave and.amazing and she can do anything*
Rey never lost a Hand she’s not a sky walker
I agree. Not having a robotic hand means she is no skywalker.
Nicolas Velosa lol!!! And Leia?????
I was expecting her or kylo to lose a hand, neither did
Shmi never lost a hand.
Is Leia not a Skywalker anymore?
In the Expanded Universe, none of Luke's descendants lost their hands. So they're not Skywalkers anymore?
(I know this a joke but I don't know why anyone says this because it makes no sense)
She was a Palpatine through and through!
She's just very uninteresting and pointless. Waisted potential just like Finn.
That’s just every new character in the ST in general tbh.
Creighton Newfarmer I disagree, Finn had potential, Rey had no potential
But I think Daisy Ridley did a fantastic job with what she was given.
I only like Kylo Ren out of everybody else.
Wasted*
“I love Democracy.”
But do you love DemocREYcy?
I love the Republic.
The powers you give me, I will lay down once this crisis has abated!
Rey was a 20 yo character written with the personality of an 8 yo and the romantic arc of a 16 yo.
She's a generic YA fiction self-insert.
@@DonVigaDeFierro True, but there are even YA fictional characters that were written a lot better than Rey was.
And the power level of a 1500year old
@@muskatDR Thor level power
@@DonVigaDeFierro Yeah she kinda is. I sometimes joke that the sequel trilogy is a reverse harem anime, but I guess that’s more accurate lol. I mean she’s even a brunette, “attractive but not quite make girls watching insecure attractive” white girl (though that’s a bit of a disservice to Daisy because I’m sure most of the generic feel is from the script). Then again they’re basically two sides of the same coin aren’t they.
She is fan fiction to the extreme.
She can't be fan fiction if none of the fans like her.
Not everyone hates her
but not everyone likes her
Yeah it seems like most people (including me) just really hate the waste of a character she was. She isn’t like Holdo which people straight up hated
@@sportsgamer8524 laura dern is awesome.
@@sportsgamer8524 I dont get why holdo was hated. I forget she exists cause she is so boring. That is her problem. and I dont see why she pisses poeple off cause if she is so boring then know one should be offended: edited
@@jesseanderson8674 her plan is just stupid. What advantage is there to leaving the entire crew in the dark. Compare it to the Clone Wars arc where Obi-Wan is undercover as a bounty hunter with Anakin and Ahsoka trying to catch him. Leaving Anakin in the dark was very consequential for the plan and could have ruined it.
I don't hate her, she's just not interesting
Luke had to go through the trials. Anakin had to go through the trials despite being the chosen one. Why should Rey be any different.
Because she is a woman
Love how Vader is first and Rey, the character Disney wanted to replace him with, is last
Just the way it should be
You mean tried to replace Luke? But yeah, she couldn't even get into the upper half and was dead last by a long shot.
@@alienclay2 I mean as the chosen one
alienclay2 No, Anakin. They claimed that she was the new chosen one, Anakin’s lightsaber was renamed to Rey’s lightsaber and she defeated Palpatine instead of Anakin
@@ImTheReverse I can't tell if this is a joke or being sarcastic. Rey was overpowered and Kylo was a 40 year old man in real life who was acting like a mad teenager! I would give Rey a C- and Kylo an F
Does anyone really "hate" her? I just find her bland and uninteresting. What I do hate is what they did to Luke in an effort to elevate her.
And that is why I hate her...
“My PaReNtS wErE sTrOnG” if I gotta hear the mothefuckin S word one more time
Harrambou yea honestly, the meaning of that word is lost these days.
Oh, yes there is.
Personally I hate people who say that she is better than other characters
There was no reason to have her be a Palpatine. She didn’t try to turn him to good or love him. He didn’t care about her. Compare Anakin and Luke. They had identical interaction in childhood, namely, none. But since Palpatine was shoehorned into the third movie, there was no time to develop a relationship between the two. And even if they had one, it would have rehashed the OT. And if it had failed, it would have been a downer ending.
Rey: (Gets picked)
General Grievous: Sequels or not, you must realize that you are doomed.
Next character: Mara Jade
Let's compare Rey with a well written female character from the EU/Legends
There's a lot of females from Legends that are written better than Rey.
I'm in the middle of the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Force Rising, and I'm definitely enjoying what I see so far.
@@ahsoka5216 true, but Mara Jade is the biggest of the post RotJ EU females
Tbh Rey is way better than Mara Jade.
In my opinion btw. I just don’t really like Mara Jades character all too much.
I just feel that her character had potential after the first film, but did not go anywhere, because some directors ego got in the way.
I was expecting her clear impulsiveness, and how she was sometimes quick to anger, would lead to some arc about how she's only only able to use the force because she's blindly using the dark side... But Nah, those aren't faults, she's always right and she's just the bestest Jedi Evar.
All potential was ruined by the end of TFA when she defeated Kylo... who had trained for years under Luke.
@@IndyDefense And 48 hours later, she defeats Luke Skywalker himself!
Karekare Nohay and to top it all that just one year, ONE YEAR she is able to kill Darth Sidious, the STRONGEST Sith Lord in history
Rey like Finn represents Disney's sequel trilogy in a nutshell so much potential quite literally unfulfilled or thrown out the garbage intentionally.
Thor, you don't need to add a percentage point to C when it comes out as 99, that skews the numbers, if only minimally. You can just add it together and then divide by 99 instead of 100.
I know. It's just the way I've been doing it since the start.
Or he should add a point to the modus of the poll
@@thorskywalker Perhaps you can remake the poll with the more accurate results given by this suggestion
Rey's not interesting enough to inspire an emotion as strong as hate. I just don't care about her in any way. She inspires nothing but apathy in me.
Well, it enrages me that some illiterate even dare to put her higher than Leia.
@@cinthyaoceguera4321 Can't blame you there
"Apathy is death."
@@cinthyaoceguera4321 Well... you're not wrong. However, I personally put Rey higher then Leia because Leia reminds me of my mom who I don't always get along with. Leia sometimes brings up bad memories.
That is kind of ironic since Anakin is my second favorite since he mirrors myself.
So about what id expect. I can't say I "hate" her, per se, just that.... well.. yeah I hate what she became. she is an extremely underdeveloped character. I actually feel bad for her. She, like the entire trilogy, had much potential but was brutally mishandled. But yeah I kinda hate her.
Well said
Kinda hilarious though that youre probably one of those people who would put cringefests as Anakin Skywalker as an A tier character.
Twan Theunisz well yeah, Anakin is a negative character arc, and he’s the antagonist of the story, the challenge to over come for Obi Wan in the Prequels and Luke in the Originals.
@@Slender_Man_186 r/iam14andthisisdeep
I don't think that Rey as a stand alone character was the problem, per say. The problem was in the way that every other character's actions and behaviours would be distorted by the writers in order to show Rey in the best way possible, established characterisation and lore be damned. She became like a black hole in the centre of the SW universe, with the writers clumsily warping the story around her rather than allowing her navigate the narrative herself. It's such embarrassingly amateurish storytelling and it completely ruins the character.
The problem you described is very typical for mary sue fanfics.
That's literally the original definition of a Mary Sue. It's when the plot bends over backwards to make the character remain perfect and better than anyone. Characters can be at god levels and still not have the story bend around them, like Superman or Anakin Skywalker. Mary Sue characters consume everyother plot detail, story element, and character around them.
Google the original Mary Sue short story (it's like 3 paragraphs). It was a satire of bad fanfiction tropes sent to a Star Trek fanfic magazine. It was written by a female editor. It's not a sexist term. Actually scratch that's, found it for you... Here it is the story that created the term. Mary Sue
A TREKKIE'S TALE
By Paula Smith
"Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. "Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet - only fifteen and a half years old." Captain Kirk came up to her. "Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?" "Captain! I am not that kind of girl!" "You're right, and I respect you for it. Here, take over the ship for a minute while I go get some coffee for us." Mr. Spock came onto the bridge. "What are you doing in the command seat, Lieutenant?" "The Captain told me to." "Flawlessly logical. I admire your mind."
Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.
But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood.
However the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.
More specifically, a Blackhole Sue. That’s a character who becomes a Mary Sue not necessarily through poor conception, but poor execution.
There are no mary sue characters, only mary sue stories.
@@schwarzerritter5724 In most cases that's fairly accurately, however there are a few stories out there where almost everything is great... except the authors pet character who is the exception to the rule in that story. Then it gets very debatable if it's a Mary Sue story or just a Mary Sue moment, in an overall very good story.
It's a case of all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Or put another way all Mary Sue stories have a Mary Sue character, but not all Mary Sue characters are in clear Mary Sue stories.
No we don’t. However the character was a disappointment
IKR like I don’t think anyone hates her they just hate what a waist she was
She could've been a much better character with only a little script tweaking. The whole Disney Trilogy is a giant example of "coulda been":
Rey could've been a Great Character who becomes a Great Jedi trained by Luke Skywalker. Instead they gave her a sort-of redemption arc without her ever having fallen enough to need redeeming.
Finn could've been one of the greatest Star Wars characters ever. They made him the black side-kick.
Poe could've been a great character, an inspirational leader, and a heroic hero. But they made him an impotent, incompetent jock.
Kylo could've been as complex and cool a character as Zuko. Instead they made him the fan ship of the series.
Hux could've been Star War's Starscream. But they made him such a joke, they had to replace him with someone actually good at being a bad guy in RoS.
Phasma could've been a really threatening villain. She was the flippin' Granny Goodness of the First Order. But they made her a consolation random-pop-up mini-boss for Finn's red-herring, meaningless side plot in TLJ.
The Knights of Ren could've been cool villains. The were simply forgotten.
Snoke could've really been 30 feet tall because a normal-sized character couldn't have contained all that evil. But they made him a gold-bath-robe wearing Trump stand-in joke who gets chopped in half by the oldest trick in the Sith book.
Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, and the droids could've gotten one last group appearance on-screen (like they gave the original Trek cast in Star Trek: the Undiscovered Country). But their fear that the original characters would upstage the new characters made them kill or neuter them. Which only highlights how the new characters are pale imitations of the originals and everyone at Lucasfilm KNEW IT.
like the phantom menace
@@liljenborg2517 well said
@Honey Badger Yeah I liked Rey a lot but the sequels were just a big missed opportunity. Daisy Ridley did a great job in making Rey lovable even with some bad writing
Does everyone hate Rey?
Well, I can't speak for everybody but...
Short answer: *yes*
Long answer: *yes*
I've just re-watched the "Hunger Game" saga recently and it made me realise how nothing's happenning to Rey compare to Katniss who goes through so much shit. The stronger are the struggle, the stronger is the character.
Strength through adversity. In the Star Wars sequels though it was strength through diversity which is ALWAYS a recipe for success 🙄🙄🙄
Not everyone hates her there are ‘Rey defenders out there, obviously a lot of children are going to look up to her’ I personally don’t hate her but dislike her, she not really understanding character
Here's the problem with Rey:
Luke Skywalker: this is how George Lucas saw himself
Rey: this is how Kathleen Kennedy sees herself.
I M 😂
You mean Rey Skywalker *-i mean* Rey Palpatine *--I MEAN..* Rey Solana *_---I MEAN_* Rey Nobody
...
Unknown User Rey Cism
Except Lacas wasn't afraid to make Luke struggle and learn.
Luke Skywalker .... Self insert, but a given an arc where he was allowed to fail. Making him a full person.
Rey Nobody-Palpatine-Skywalker ... Self insert who was a symbol of "female empowerment" who wasn't allowed to fail and therefore failed to evolve into a relatable person.
there was no character to rate because she was just a perfect unstoppable force of nature
No. I dislike the decision making around her though. A lot of potential was wasted because of bad handling.
Rey and Kylo to me are just watered down plagiarised versions of Jaina Solo and Jacen Solo / Darth Caedus. I certainly don't hate em, but I honestly don't see them as iconic Star Wars characters as the classics like Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda etc. For Rey specifically, I like her overall design with the hanging scarf-robes, especially the TROS version of her robes, it makes her look very agile and Jedi-like. But looking =/= being. Rey may look like a Jedi Knight, but she doesn't behave like one, in the way that Luke did for example, for in no point in the Disney Trilogy does she face serious adversity and opposition. She's a Mary Sue through and through, a needlessly OP character that is winning every fight, but also needlesly makes a very dramatic fuss about it afterwards. Yet hell, to prove that I'm not even biased against her despite these fundamental flaws, I'll admit that I even payed a few bucks to get her as a skin in Fortnite back in Xmas, even though I'm technically a Disney Trilogy hater and Phantom Menace supporter and refused to pay to watch TROS in cinema after the Reddit leaks, only buying the Blue-ray on a huge discount many months afterwards. Despite that, I had the fun of my life playing as her in Fortnite while my lightsaber ingame went brrrr, and I still use her from time to time even though lightsabers are not included in Fortnite anymore (made a brief comeback on Star Wars Day / May the 4th). If I had Battlefront II (2017) I imagine that I would play as her there too. All in all, I'd rank her as a B- as a character, and probably place her 20th in my Top 20 fav Star Wars characters.
It’s hard to like Rey when we could have had Jaina Solo.
I absolutely agree. I even bought 3 boxes of Jaina Solo Black Series figures. Absolutely a far way better character than MaRey Sue Soywalker...
Or both, maybe.
master106 games we can have both when the EU is continued. The next book trilogy set to come out (before Disney stepped in and canceled it) was a Jaina Solo Trilogy called Sword of the Jedi. When both have content made for them, then we can have both. But at the moment Rey is the only one getting continued content
Obsidian Monolith Back when I learned of the sequel trilogy was in the works I was so intrigued by what direction they would go in. There were so many excellent stories post Return of the Jedi in the expanded universe that would have fit in with the Star Wars world casual fans were familiar with. Those stories by design were literal continuations of the existing Star Wars universe storyline. Then came episode 7 which of course was the story a young adult on a nowhere desert planet who happens upon a droid with secret plans...basically a shameful redo of episode 4 with the plot points lifted and the scale exaggerated to a laughable degree. When I left the theater with my girlfriend at the time (who wasn’t a huge Star Wars fan as I was at that time) I was unimpressed and frankly a little confused. My girlfriend had said in the theater “we’ve seen this before” after the 3rd or 4th obvious nearly exact same shot from episode 4 was shown within 5 minutes of the start of episode 7. It seemed to me like episode 7 was a confusing reboot of episode 4. I went in expecting something new to keep the story going, to keep people excited about new Star Wars stories that expanded the universe on screen and fit with the written expanded universe so many people had been digesting for decades. That I had been. To me it felt like pandering to the nostalgia of “fans” was more important to the writers than story telling. I felt then that episode 8 had better take that obscenely (given how signifying Star Wars has been for millions of fans for decades) low bar and have it exceed the prior high bar if Disney expected to keep Star Wars enthusiasm where it was prior to episode 7. Then came episode 8. Done. I understand now that episode 7 was literally a cash grab by Disney, who did not respect Star Wars or understand it. It was a cobbled together plagiarized script designed to play to the emotions of the largest audience possible with feel good characters designed to show haters what’s what. In other words: crap.Rey is a nothing character. None of the characters are anything more than what they were defined as in their initial introduction. Rey is a Mary Sue and everyone, wether they’re willing to consciously admit or not, knows that she will win and the story just exists to show everyone how. I never especially like Jaina Solo, or the Solo children all that much, but she damn sure was a strong female character who would have infinitely more interesting and relatable than the trash Disney gave us. I had thought honestly the Yuzzahn Vong story arc might surface as it was such a dark period and there was so much action. Plus, you know, there would be the prior trilogies kids leading the charge. Also, Luke Skywalker’s kid Ben Skywalker would show up...you know, with the Solo’s children...instead we ended up with Ben....Solo. Wtf. That was another huge disappointment. Did the writers know they’d made Luke’s son a Solo and had him kind of be a Jacen Solo? Jacen Solo would have been another what would have been amazing story arc that would have showcased how good intentions can lead to evil even when the people doing it mean well. And that leads to...Mara Jade Skywalker...another awesome strong female character who, spoiler alert, Jacen Solo murders. So we could have had Jaina, who became so very much more interesting when she became a Mandalorian (a Mandalorian!), Mara Jade Skywalker, the former Hand of the Emperor, and we ended up with Mary Sue Rey Palpatine and all of that stupid hero worshipping better than everyone literally leading a Calvary charge in space bs. To hell with you Disney for your obscene greed; you have destroyed a multi generational story that has inspired and entertained millions. Just because you knew that a large portion of the fan base would accept anything with a Star Wars label doesn’t mean that you should lower your standards to the level of “have no standards.” I think it’s only a matter of time before the Mandalorian catches the bullet of the Rey effect (flashy effects and zero substance cash grabbing disguised as something meeting what the public “demands”. A polished overpriced turd).
The answer is „well yes but actually kinda yes“
100% yes. And you can choose between a bunch of reasons to hate this character.
You have the best profile picture I’ve ever seen
THICC OBI WAN this is a happy moment
the happiest moment of my life
I wouldn't say everyone, but most people hate or simply don't care for her
I would agree with you, but the exact same thing was said about Hayden`s Anakin. So I'm not sure.
@@Ismail-db1vj
With clone wars series and enough time has passed many people have changed their though on anakin Skywalker.
I don't think it will happen with Rey do to several reason.
@@thealexgundam5006 I still don't like Hayden's Anakin lol
@Darth Cameron
The reason why anakin and rey were hated was due to different things.
Anakin was mostly hated due to actors poor acting, poor dialogue, a few other problems with prequels films. Not really because of his character and the ERA he in is far more interesting than sequel.
Rey is hated because of her character is portrayed as nearly perfect, she learns abilities they took jedi in the past years to learn, defeats kylo Ren who was trained with an actually style by two master while rey never trained with a sword, she is apart of era which is mostly similar to OT which people seen before.
To make matter worse clone wars took over 3 years which allowed them to flush out the era besides ankain( between attack of the clones and revenge of the sith) more in contrast the entire sequels take over a year time. With tfa and talk taking place a few min from each other.
Their isn't much room for them to try flush out rey character. ( can't comment about legends since I don't know a lot about it)
@@demisor9701
That's perfectly fine, I mostly watch clone wars series cause I got attached to ashoka and other characters
I don’t hate her she’s just boring. In the ST there are interesting characters like Finn and Kylo but Rey doesn’t have an interesting concept like them in my opinion and there wasn’t much development. They could have made how Thor once said like Aang but they didn’t and she feels now like a boring version of Luke.
Agreed. We already had our in-universe Christ. Rey took Anakin’s background and showed us just how well Lucas wrote Anakin’s story. The dialogue is a different story.
She isn't a character. Characters require flaws and then growth to overcome those flaws.
@@PiethagorasTearem "My name is Rey. Rey Palpatine. And I am your Force messiah."
@@PiethagorasTearem Well, even Jesus was tortured and nailed to a stick...
I seem to recall several 'mistakes' the character made, most prominent to me, when Rey destroyed the transport that she thought Chewy was on with accidental beginner use of the lightning force.... and then spent what, 5 min of film time ( a week of 'real time' or ? ) moping about whereas Luke had nothing, blank canvas.
@@rickc661 Rey destroying the transport with a discharge of Force Lightning had no consequences, as the "twist" was chewie was on another transport and she could sense chewie's position, and she never used Force Lightning ever again despite actually going into a blind rage to the point she punted Finn with the force and she killed Kylo... which had no consequences because her Force Healing has no consequences. Her entire revenge motivation which is supposed to be a huge mistake for Jedi to pursue and should have been a flaw had no consequences at all. Even her killing Palpatine, which should have resulted in the consequence of Palpatine possessing her, had its consequence removed and invalidated.
When mistakes have no consequences to them they are not really mistakes are they? Oh and, keep in mind the entire Rise of Skywalker movie is on a 16 hour story timer.
@@rickc661 Even if you interpret is as a mistake, shooting lightning is a blatant mary sue moment, as she has no prior knowledge that it can be done, she didnt train to use it.
Like her or not, the fact that she created a rift in the community is a fuilure on it's own.
Straight up D, waste of potential and of Daisy’s talent
Revan *almost* getting nominated for the next poll has become an inside joke...
She’s about a C character, but I stated she’s an F because of the fact that I cant hate a female character without being a sexist
Ain't that the cold hard truth isn't it
Let your hate flow like a river!
She is an F. There is no redeeming quality to her, other than she is easy on the eyes.
AC Air Conditioning - I commented somewhere (Pinterest?) that I thought Rey was a boring character with no flaws, and someone’s immediate response was to call me a “neck beard.” (Within days of someone else calling me a feminist killjoy.) It struck me that for many, the knee jerk reaction to a *Star Wars opinion* is to write the guilty party off as an irredeemable bigot.
It’s intellectually lazy-the greatest crime of all-but it’s also par for the course in virtually every issue these days. Diverge even slightly from what’s become the approved party line, even with utterly mundane and moderate views, and you’re instantly a “fascist.”
hating a female character isn't sexist.
I don’t hate her. She’s just meh.
Disney: This is Rey, she's important!
Me: y
Darth Cameron I’d say she is a strong character because of several reasons. Being a politician makes her one of Star Wars’ most unique characters. She constantly puts herself in danger for the greater good. She’s a good shot and can get out of a sticky situation but isn’t a warrior which keeps the stakes high. Her relationship with Anakin is interesting. They are two people who are very inexperienced in romance but care for each other. Padmé’s idealism is a nice contrast with a lot the other senators who are not always willing to stand up for their people. She has quite a few flaws. She never saw Anakin’s turn coming. Overall I’d say she is a likable character and does some pretty interesting things (acting as a spy, assisting Satine, investigation the banks).
@Bad Boys Boogie I'm not a misogynistic sexist! I mistreat and judge everyone by gender equally! Even robots and my bike.
Gina Carano from The Mando would have played a lovely Mara Jade. Space Xena Warrior Princess in space.
Rey didn’t loose any limbs, therefore she isn’t a real Star Wars hero.
Edit: I was making a snarky comment, of course loss of limbs isn’t a Star Wars protagonist prerequisite - y’all are 100% correct to point out that Leia & Obi-Wan didn’t lose any body parts (Unless Obi-Wan losing his entire body at death counts). Neither did Chewie or Han (though the latter was frozen in carbonite, that is physical trauma, right?). Neither did Padmé - worst she got was scratches and blaster wounds, which is par for the course really - nor Poe or Finn (though I guess he got his back seriously wounded?). I was really more pointing out that there’s a lot less loss of limbs due to lightsabers in the Disney movies. Y’all needn’t take a one year old obviously tongue in cheek comment so seriously
Well, that proves she's a Palpatine, not a Skywalker...
She lost her family, WTF is that?
@@ntokozomazibuko6745 yeah, you know who else lost their family? Luke, Anakin, Maul, Boba Fett, Finn, or, you know, ANY JEDI during the old Republic.
Obi Wan didn't lose limbs, what does that count?
@@ntokozomazibuko6745 no, because obi wan wasn't the main character. Anakin was. Then Luke was. Then Rey was. If she is supposed to be a Skywalker, she should lose an arm
Rey isn’t a character, she has been forced to become an idol of figurehead for women equality in films only she failed at that part too, she wasn’t likeable in my opinion throughout any of the films, she was overpowered sooo much that she could beat a TRAINED SITH and that whole palpatine granddaughter thing turned the whole sequel trilogy into a massive JOKE. I don’t dislike Rey because in my opinion she isn’t a character just a waste of potential (no offence to daisy Ridley)
Agree but kylo aint a sith hes a dark/fallen jedi
stout alarm837 they did what the Old Republic completely shutdown: Force wielders will always have Force wielding family members or offspring. Theron Shan, son of the Grand Master Satele Shan and Republic Commando Cpt Jace Malcom, and descendant of Revan himself had no aptitude with The Force at all. Nothing there. But this didn't this drag him down to just commoner levels as a character. Man went on to become one of the best SIS agents The Republic ever had to infiltrate the Sith Empire. Why in the fuck couldn't Rey just have had average force potential and work her way up to the (relative) top of the pecking Order like Obi-Wan ? Like damn man...
BlackShogun 27
That’d have made her a bit too interesting
BlackShogun 27 they wanted Rey to be their female like skywalker only her force level started in Jedi master mode
@@stoutalarm8374 she's the kind of anomaly that the ancient Sith Emperor would've done anything to get his hands on. And if she proved too slippery or strong willed, she would then be condemned to death by the dark entity. What could not serve would be destroyed...
But knowing Rey and the Disney writers, she'd be able to battle Valkorion on even footing and even scare the ~1200 YO demon into running or killing itself. Just thinking if that scenario made me nauseous. A single Dark Council member would merc most of the Disney Canon with relative ease. Only when the high tiers of the Canon verse show themselves does shit get serious...
Like I've said in the past, I don't hate Rey, I was just underwhelmed by her character and how it "progressed."
This is why this Thor is my favorite Star Wars RUclipsr (beside Theroy) He talks about Star Wars from a civil side not hate or loving the movies and gave me a point of view of Star Wars
I like TFA, TLJ was average, and TROS was meh.
I still watch his vid because he gave me a different point of view of Star Wars not just the Sequels but the whole saga
PS: People Don’t get made at me liking the sequels everyone has opinions
*mad
As individual movies I actually enjoy the sequels (for the most part). My issue is with them as both a trilogy and as part of the saga, they feel so disconnected. But in Thor's comments, I doubt you'll get much hate, same in Theroy's.
I don't hate Rey at all, but I can certainly agree that her character was misleading even if they made her a Palpatine. But at least Daisy Ridley does a good performance I'll give her that. It's good if you like the sequel trilogy, no one should be crucified just because they like what they like.
Nope she’s just a poorly written character that was basically given everything in the course of three films.
Since Rey grew up alone as a scavenger on a desert planet, I would have liked to see her reaction to rain, to the sea, to food, to coldness, to parties, to a comfortable bed, what skills she has picked up in survival and from scrapping ships, what habits she would have kept from that life. But it seems that after they leave Jakku, all that the movie's showed us about her is forgotten and doesn't matter anymore : /
Can we all appreciate that Finn was supposed to be a Jedi, and that would’ve been the coolest part of the series. There were many plot holes, but I’d have forgiven them for Jedi Finn.
I don’t hate Rey but she is a wasted potential just like the rest of the Sequel Trilogy characters. TLJ really ruined the Sequel Trilogy in my honest opinion.
tros ruined sequels
@@RoboPowGaming I think they mean the Rise of Skywalker. I'm hoping so anyways! xD
Agreed, though I for one do hate her. I hate overpowered Mary Sues. They’re not interesting at all. There’s no drama, no real sense of personal struggle to deal with, no sense of character development or progress. Luke Skywalker started out as a naive farm boy who was an experienced pilot, one who dreamed of something bigger than the life he was living, but had no knowledge of how to use the force. His naïveté nearly gets him killed numerous times in A New Hope and Empire. It is only in the final film in the trilogy that we see that he has matured into the Jedi Knight the galaxy needed to save it. He earned the title of hero. Rey is a scavenger who hasn’t flown the ship and received no training in combat or from a Jedi, yet by the end of the first film she is using the force and beats a trained Dark Side user. The entire time I was watching her on the big screen, I felt like I was watching some fanfic writer’s OC brought to life. She doesn’t earn her abilities through training, or become stronger through her failure. She’s just strong and has powers for no reason. By the end of the final film very little has changed in terms of development and growth. It didn’t feel like she earned the title of hero, but rather we were just expected to see her as such. Hell, even in the prequel trilogy, with all their flaws, there is at least a sense of character development for Anakin. We see a descent into darkness that culminates in the events of Revenge of the Sith. Rey? She starts out as a super strong character with force powers and ends up a strong character with force powers. Whenever she is in danger, she just pulls a new force power out of her ass and suddenly she’s in control of the situation again. She doesn’t need to be rescued, her failures (if you can even call them that) don’t cost her as dearly as the failures of Luke and Anakin cost them. She’s just an all around boring, uninteresting, Mary Sue.
Hate’s a strong word. I moreso hate the direction they took with Rey, though I like the base idea of her character and Daisy Ridley is a great actress.
That comment at 13:23 is spot on. When she beat Kylo she not only became boring by beating 'her' rival, she also emasculated him and made him far less imposing as a villian.
This also hurt TLJ as Rian Johnson selfishly demolished any major plot threads by the end of that movie sans the mystery of Kylo and Rey, that was not that engaging itself due to TFA and TLJ, thus killing any real excitement or reasoning for TROS.
I loved your small little fix of the last Jedi always where you described Rey being too late and fin actually giving his life to save the rebellion. I’ve always thought that would be a better way to end the movie. That also presents the perfect position for proper, well executed subversion of our expectations because we would expect Rey to swoop in and save the day but she’s too late.
I still love the idea of Finn being the force sensitive one, and Rey should’ve been the pilot/mechanic
People don't necessarily hate Rey, she was just incredibly poorly written.
Rey is that. A character that was written. She isn’t real, and so she should be judged as she was written. What you meant was that she was a good idea. She is her writing and therefore should be hated for it being so bad
TheReal Dragonz are you really trying to tell me what I meant? What I meant was, she was a poorly written character. Do not try and make it any more deeper than that. I did not mean she was a good idea, your arrogance is amazing. Thanks for pointing that she is made up and not real. I was beginning to wonder why after all this time she never returned my calls.
Your logic is incredibly flawed.
J S I read what you said wrong- I thought you said that people don’t hate the character- they just hate how she was written. So that is why I replied so arrogantly. I am clearly I’m the wrong I’m this situation
“Poorly Written” is an opinion.
@@master106 Given Thor's hypothesis, "Does everyone 'hate' Rey?", it is impossible to answer the question correctly without conducting a global survey to see what everyone's answer is. Every comment on here is an opinion, so cheers brah for pointing out the blatantly obvious.
You would think that someone who made tons of friends in a week during FA and TLJ, would have had a couple close friends on Jakku. How is it possible that she is basically an asocial hermit for 18 years on Jakku but suddenly makes friends effortlessly whenever on screen. Luke referenced plenty of friends on Tatooine. Rey was alone.
I just watched the original trilogy again ... and it's amazing how good it is, how real the characters are, and how invested you are in the story. That's all lacking in the sequel trilogy.
Luke is a real person. He's a sheltered farm boy who is naive but eager to have an adventure ... only he isn't ready for it. He's easily overwhelmed by the Sandpeople, nearly gets killed in a cantina, is too hasty in the negotiations with Han Solo, and has no clue how space travel works. He grows along the way though. He's brave and quick to learn. And throughout the first film, he works as part of a team. Think about that. He never does anything by himself. Obi-Wan helps him. C3P0 and R2 help him. Leia helps him, so does Han and Chewy and the rest of the rebel fighter pilots. Yes, he's the hero, but he is part of a larger effort. And fast forward to Empire, Luke has evolved but he is still very much a novice. He again needs rescuing from the frozen tundra after he was attacked by the ice monster. And he fails nearly every single of Yoda's tests. Furthermore, when he rushes off to confront Vader ... he gets his ass kicked. I mean, Vader was just toying with him. Luke was giving it his all because he wanted to kill Vader, but Vader was simply testing him and ultimately wanted to capture him. It wasn't a close fight ... it was a rout. It isn't until the end of Return of the Jedi that Luke has accomplished his goals and earns the right to be the hero at the end of his journey.
Rey? There is no struggle, no adversity. Let's stop beating around the bush here. Rey was written as a feminist Mary Sue. Don't buy it? Look at what Kathleen Kennedy has said. Look at the pictures of Kennedy and all her female staff members wearing shirts saying "the Force is female." Kennedy had a message to spread--that's it. And like most third-wave feminism, that message is predicated on deconstructing what has come before. They had to make Han look like a loser (and completely reverse his character arc from the original trilogy), they had to make Luke seem like a weakling who runs away to hide from trouble (completely reversing his character arc from the original trilogy). They had to make everyone else look incompetent in order to make Rey look so special. And they failed.
I'm all for good female characters. Leia is a great character. She's tough, she's confident, she's a force to be reckoned with ... but she's also vulnerable, she has fears and worries ... she works as part of a team to solve problems.
There are other female characters in Star Wars that are good examples--Ahsoka being one of them. I hated Ahsoka at the beginning because I found her annoying ... but she grew and I grew to like her. I felt genuine sadness when Ahoska faced off against Vader in Rebels. And I felt genuine loss at the end of Clone Wars with her story all but done (for now). Yes, she seemed a little OP in those final episodes, but I could overlook that given her whole story.
It's a shame the sequels were such a disaster.
In my opinion she is too perfect, she does nothing wrong. She doesnt feel like a real human which makes her unrelatable unlike characters like Anakin/Vader, hes far from perfect but you can still feel his suffering and sometimes you can relate to it. The same cant be said about rey.
41 percent of people really want to ask: does everybody think different than me?
I like Rey, but I think she just wasn't characterised enough - like they had a set up of her being a unique character kind of like a character with the morality of a Disney princess in the star wars universe she got set up for a unique characterisation more in that 5 min force of destiny episode in the desert than in the films.
She could have been really awesome though and Daisy Ridley is a brilliant actress and a really nice person
Have you met Her?
Rey never had any internal struggle, which is one of the fundamental themes of Star Wars. She didn’t struggle between the light and the dark, she didn’t struggle to master the force, she didn’t really learn anything and she didn’t teach the audience anything. There was no purpose or heart to her story. Also may have liked her more if Disney didn’t destroy the OT characters to make her look better.
It's not the "Sequel Trilogy" it's the "Squandered Potential Trilogy."
14:12 aye!! 😁 Cool I made it!! 😁
There's a moment in Force Awakens, when Rey has just met BB-8, he's asking to come with her, and she's trying to tell him not to. She finally sighs, rolls her eyes, and gives a slight "Come on then" gesture. There's so much more character in that one moment than in the other two films combined, it's tragic. Daisy Ridley was robbed of what should have been a great role.
She just seems like a purposeless character that’s put in the most purposeful position in the trilogy
Can you do an actor-appreciation-video, or a series of it actually, where you go through their other roles and we can discuss how great they are? Especially Gleeson, he is a national treasure here in Ireland. ☘️
Ironically, these so called "haters" are acting very logical and mature in dealing with this Rey problem, giving objective reviews and criticizing based on facts and logic
On the other hand, we know how the creators and their mobs treated their audience, with very harsh words and unethical behavior
Rey is just the definition of a mary sue
I don’t love or hate everything about the sequels, but the decision to go the Rey Palpatine route was a let down for me. I found the “Rey is nobody” angle much more compelling and intriguing.
The Sith do tend to be liars. Perhaps Palpatine told her she was his granddaughter for reasons and purposes of his own, like eventually turning her to the dark side. Otherwise, I totally agree with you.
Rey to kylo: you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!
Me: yeah, neither will you
Rey like all the DisneyWars characters started of strong, interesting, with a lot of potential. Strength, interest and potential that was shot into a black hole half way through the film. All because JJA and the KK Klub lost the plot, and turned them all into comic relief and plot devices.
Started off strong? lol... I don't know whether to laugh at Mary Sue level strong or Strongly Weak character Strong! Ahahahaha! And besides... Force Awakens was shit to me. Lack of any STRONG creative decision making except all the copy and pasting of ideas from the Original Trilogy... Watch MauLers Video essays on the Force Awakens and you'll see all the cracks...
Revan It was good before they learned about the Thicc Death Star imo.
@@VerdantJedi So you consider Luke to of started off as a Mary Sue as well then?
A number of the complaint's about Reys character can be solved by simply paying attention during her introduction, and not hating her for the sake of hating her. Yes this includes Mauler as well.
Her path to Mary-Suedom only begins when she and Finn leave on the Falcon, and she's somehow able to fly it just as well - if not better - than Han. With no training.
And turned to feminist propaganda
I don't hate Rey. I thought she was actually a good character at first. But she was never challenged even once, never lost a battle, she was a beast with a saber the moment she picked one up for the first time. She was just given everything from the start. Just a disappointment
Hit the nail, again! Rey's opening was epic-even in the trailer I was excited. Then the movie began...lol
10:09. Nah, you nailed the sentiment. It was what we all were looking for. A flawed person, who because she had flaws like us all, would have been super relatable because of that. Whatever we did get, felt fake and was an unattainable standard to strive for, just like a doctored digital photo to make someone look better than what they actually were. Had the character felt genuine, people would have warmed up to her eventually, but because it felt contrived and fake, people just didn't care for the character (which is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a lead character). Hence, people went to the only other character they knew anything about, which was Finn. Poe had almost zero backstory up until TRoS and even then, we were still told relatively nothing about it. :/
I thought that Rey had a lot of potential to be a great character, like Luke and Anakin, having many layers and being complex and driven by passion, belief, and emotion. However, that turned out to be only a dream since Rey was just very bland, too powerful, had no character growth, and ultimately showed no sort of firm belief in anything or passion for anything either. I was genuinely excited before TFA for Rey, she seemed really cool and fun but Kennedy and Iger dropped the ball.
I don’t hate her per se, I just hate that I’m told I’m not allowed to find legitimate criticism with her without being called sexist
I hate the character but not the actor.
Something the OT FanBoys/Girls didn't understand with the PT. Ahmad Best & Jake Lloyd are a tragedy.
@@modmaker7617 Also the racist fanboys who harassed Kelly Marie Tran because she played a character they didn't like
FACTS
Toxicity in Star Wars is everywhere
On the hate side
And the love side
@Lionard Kirsch Yeah. I hope every actor has a decent career from now on, so they can leave the Disney Wars disaster in the past as soon as possible.
For someone that waited years to saved by her parents, you'd think a character like that would be both incredibly patient and stubborn.
To me , it's worse that she has perfect lightsaber skills than force skills, as I can feasibly believe that the force could be learned more innately, and again, it's a fictional force, so we don't really know the rules (but it was still lazy writing to not have any kind of developement force-wise). Yes she grew up defending herself, but with a STAFF, a two-handed weapon she could touch without losing a hand. I always assumed a big part of why it takes so much study to be a jedi is partly because you can do much more damage to yourself with a lightsaber than a normal sword, and would have to be disciplined so you would not lose limbs swinging it around. She beats Kylo Ren the first time she activates a lightsaber. No matter how much background she has defending herself, she could never beat someone who trained their WHOLE life in both the force and using a lightsaber. Great video as always thor, thanks for being the middle ground for star wars fans. I'm excited for your reworked sequel trilogy!
Ask Shadiversity: her lightsaber skills are FAR from perfect
@@silvermagpie1071 Fair point, it's just that her skills are represented as much better than even Kylo, especially in the throne room scene where she gets out of every tight spot on her own (which is fine) but then Kylo needs her help to get out of a deadlock
@@emberfist8347 Yes, but the force permeates all things, so it's not out of the question (in my opinion, at least) to learn it innately. How did I get here? I'm defending lazy writing again, crap
The comments, including yours, have all been very insightful and accurate. They sum up Rey pretty well.
What _should_ Rey have been? I like what you said about how she should have a hard time trusting. Rey had a harder childhood than Anakin or Luke, they had parental figures while she had no one. By rights that should result in a pretty large amount of trauma. You sort of see that at the beginning of TFA, when she wants to stay on Jakku and wait for her parents even though they're clearly not coming back. But she just sort of gets over this and is soon fixated on helping the Resistance and exploring her place in the Force. I think the real Rey would carry a whole lot of anger towards her parents for abandoning her, and leaving Jakku would mean facing that anger. Like, after their adventure in the Millennium Falcon she should start getting really mad with everyone about everything and not even know why. (Because she's suppressed her despair for so long in the struggle to survive.) Han would be a natural target for this rage (since he's a father), but he dies before she even knows what she's feeling.
I guess I'm saying I see Rey as a very angry person, at least at first, who would have a hard time believing in anything or anyone. In the first movie this wouldn't come up much because she's sort of thrown into one situation after another. But what if she refused to look for Luke at the end and sought out Kylo instead? Then in the second movie Finn and Poe and Rose could try and convince Luke to come back while Kylo and Rey are drawn together by their rage against their parents. Maybe we could even find out why Kylo hated his dad so much. Then, heck, why not have Kylo _and_ Rey fight Luke, and it's only in that fight that Rey realizes she's almost lost her soul. At the last moment she switches sides and together Rey, Luke and the Resistance manage to avoid complete annihilation. Maybe Luke dies in the process.
The third movie opens with Rey on the Light side, but with some serious mental baggage she still needs to understand. Leia could have helped with that. I like the idea of a more complicated Rey/Leia relationship than what we saw. Rey should feel guilty about Luke's death but still angry and distrustful of parental figures. Leia sees this and gently guides her through it.
Jyn Erso from Rogue One? I don't even remember what her personality was like. She kind of faded into the background of that movie.
I don’t hate Rey, never have. I really love the idea of her character being a young, inexperienced female Jedi, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that and it’s a character type that is missing from Star Wars. Also don’t hate Daisy Ridley, I think she did a fine job at portraying her. The problem is that the sequel movies are just bad, not because of Rey but because of their plots and their lack of world building.
@Lionard Kirsch Some certainly have a problem with just Rey altogether, but I agree I think the real problem is what they did with her, which is nothing.
@@emberfist8347 Not for people who are fans of the movies. I would love for Ahoska to have been more prominent in the films but she wasn't so it's not really fair to make that statement.
@@emberfist8347 That is a pretty ridiculous statement to make lol. Some people just aren't interested in animated Star Wars, you can't call them "not real fans" because of that.
The movie itself was trying it's god damn darnest to internally apolitical as possible meaning there's nothing in universe to ground narrative.
Rey's musical theme was pretty cool.
But she is no Jaina Solo.
Bring back the real Solo children: Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin
I don't really hate her. I have no passionate feelings for Rey. No hate, no love. She's just bland AF!
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Lord Momin, looking forward to that Tarkin video- I mean, standing by!
Red Five standing by!
Orange Elite 37 splashing by!
Red Two, standing by!
I’m a fan of Rey just because of how good Daisy’s performance was. She really showed that she appreciated the fandom and was very excepting of criticism.
She is a video game sprite on cheat mode.
YES! Finally, General Grievous is not last!
Daisy did great acting the part and working with the script and story she was given. I would have loved it if the 2nd movie was all about her descent to the dark side and Finn and BB8 were on a journey to bring her back to the light while Poe did his cowboy thing and Leia had to actually fight Kylo. Maybe her death would have been the thing to bring Luke out of hiding. Idk, this is all off the top of my head.
Regardless, I like Daisy and think she had great chemistry with all the others on screen. Wish Finn was a more fleshed out character too.
Honestly higher score than I thought. She was mostly boring and illogical
Your own Version!?!
That's AWESOME!!!!
Way to Go!!! I'd offer to pitch in art wise, old school by hand though, would have to wend it by mail too. However I've started working on my own FanFilm series! A TON of work and I've just begun writing and sketching out characters and collecting the costume bits...and building the miniature sets....and everything else. Lol.
REY...I LOVED her!
At first, because really effective intro but...then the natural Force Sensitive Prodigy angle kicked in and it went full on Mary Sue.
What growth did she experience? What Story did she have?
I have to Struggle to come up with one. I dont have to do that for Any Other character arc in either of the previous two Trilogies.
It wasnt Me being Resistant to her, quite the opposite. The STORY she went through was just Terrible in every way.
Not Daisy's Fault.
But sadly this cannot be said of Just her character, it's also unfortunately true for every character portrayal, new and OG roles were Full of Amazing POTENTIAL.
Sadly the writers, directors etc without an overall plot arc were Clearly OVERWHELMED or just Lacked the chops, life experiences or Wisdom to Forsee That Potential and Capitalize upon it.
I am forever referring to Rey as a "bland piece of week old toast."
Rey is a great character. Could've been even better. She's charismatic and she feels sincere and wide eyed allow us to share her excitement at being in this amazing world. I have no idea why people say she doesn't have fears, struggles, or doubts - she's has more of those than any other Star Wars main character. Sure she's op, but so what. Why would that ruin anything?
I can't believe I missed the poll for Rey...
"Let him without sin..."
I don't hate Rey at all. It's just that the character should have been better developed and fleshed out. Me? If I were writing a story for Star Wars Episode X, I'd certainly concentrate on further developing the character, exposing her flaws and giving her some real challenges. Rey is still redeemable.
PS: Mila Jovovich should play an older Rey in a future Star Wars movie.
Yes, seriously!
Rey "Skywalker" is a good and well writen "charecter"
My personal opinion is she's awesome. After only seeing the Force awakens she was already established as my all time favourite character in the entire saga. She pretty much had me at "the garbage will do" And making her a Palpatine makes her even better. I love that she's over powered as some might say. But then so was Anakin. They make a point of saying how the force is strong in the Skywalker family, like they're something special. So I have no problem with the possibility that there just might be someone out there stronger than the beloved chosen one. An ant among fleas can seem like a giant, but it's still just an ant. Or as Qui Gon would put it, there's always a bigger fish. And it seems to fit with what Luke said in The last Jedi. How he became a legend because of how he stood up to the emperor and liberated Darth Vader and restored Anakin Skywalker to the light side. But Luke doesn't see himself as anything special. He's just a man who isn't perfect. And he makes mistakes, just like everyone else. And I think Last Jedi does a good job of making that point. What was I talking about again? Oh yes. I love Rey.
Hating Rey is a waste of energy better spent focusing on the aspects of Star Wars you love and enjoy.
Lionard Kirsch or Mara Jade in legends
@@Private-Potato whichever of the two or both, who says it has to be one or the other
Femto I love both.
Why do you think negative emotions are worse than positive ones? The two are just as valid, this type of thinking is what led to the PC rhetoric of positivity. There is a reason these are hated, and thats because they love the OT or the prequels, and the sequels destroyed the lore.
@@thorthewolf8801 did you just ask why negative emotions are worse/bad?
I think that Kipo Oak is a good example of a 'friend maker' character. She tries so hard to befriend every single person she meets in the show (literally), but many times she struggles or outright fails to do so, despite making plenty of other friends