70K OR 700K? Ford 7.3 Powerstroke Mileage Discrepancy. How Many Miles Are Really On This Engine?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Midweek Bonus Video!
Last week I made a post on youtube about how a 7.3L Powerstroke came in from another yard with a claimed 700,000 miles. Of course, I cannot take anything at face value so I decided to dig to verify. If i am going to claim an engine has 700K, I need hard, concrete, commercial grade proof. To carfax I went, and it showed me there was a huge discrepancy in the mileage log, so i decided to check it out before I tear down a good, impossibly low mileage engine.
In this video, I lay out all of the details that I have. The carfax. The truck. The VIN, EVERY single detail I have, you have! We tear into the engine in a few areas and try to prove or disprove either mileage claim.
So, what do you think? How many miles are actually on this engine?
Also, what should I do with it? No... No I'm not swapping it into anything.
If you're looking to buy superduty parts, we have several in stock from 7.3 to 6.7 Generation. You can visit www.Importapart.com and peruse our inventory. If you don't see what you're after you can fill out the part request form which lets us know exactly what you're looking for.
As always, I appreciate all of the comments, feedback, and even the criticism.
Catch you on Saturday night for another complete engine teardown!
-Eric
Per the mileage discrepancy between december 29th and february 3rd the engine had an average velocity of approxmately 750 mph
Definitely supersonic🤔🤣⚡
There's a reason people love those 7.3s!!
They really fly!
Over 617,000 miles in 36 days works out to a modest average speed of just shy of 715mph according to my math
@@09corvettezr1 Ahhhh, you’re one of “those” guys.
@@09corvettezr1 oi! Where are your fueling stop compensations???
Having rebuilt a few of these over 20 years, that is definitely about a 70k mile motor with a ton of idle time, cold start and a fair number of dry starts. Last 7.3 I rebuilt had 300k and was superb. That was definitely a city/municipal/county or state vehicle that was sold at auction
A city/county or state would NEVER keep a vehicle for damn near 700k miles. If it was only 70k I doubt they would of needed to replace injectors either as those are not all original. Many folks take care of their vehicles as it's what makes them money. You lose when it's down and in the shop.
Judging from the lack of patina on engine parts, I'd say it's a 70k engine, but the bearings tell a story of a lot of idle time. Service body as well as the Chicago location tells me this truck was never shut off in the winter. I wonder if you could pull the total engine hours out of the ECM, if it's still with the engine.......
Would make a good starting point for a rebuild, though..........
Nailed it, Dec to Feb and 231 miles. Plow truck with immense idle time.
That would mean someone bought a service truck, that only got between 4 and 5 thousand miles a year, for 14 years. That's less than 90 miles a week, that's an awfully big purchase to do basically nothing for a decade and a half.
That's a hard thing to accept.
@@ekscalybur the government doesn’t spend your money wisely
@@ekscalybur I just got a van that had sat for the past 12 years but they kept insurance and plates on it even though it didn't run. He has a fox body mustang the same way he parked it 15 years ago after a engine rebuild cause he was mad the window motor and heater core went out within 6 months. People are weird man.
No engine hours are recorded with this pcm
As another person mentioned, the cylinders still appear to have really nice cross-hatching. The bearing wear is definitely a little concerning, but with that service body and the rust, I suspect it was probably a municipal service truck. Probably used for plowing snow. So started cold often, and then floored into piles of snow.
The biggest giveaway to me is that the injectors and valve cover harness appear original. A 700,000 mile 7.3 would be on it's 2nd or 3rd set of injectors - usually a hodgepodge mixed set at that. Reman injectors have a big "R" or some other identifying mark on them somewhere. All of the injectors appear to be original OEM injectors, and they simply would not last 700,000 miles.
That cross hatching was an area with no piston travel
@@draymond5067 That isn't correct on a 7.3. A 7.3 has such a long stroke, that the piston travels the full length of the bore. At bottom dead center, a bit of the piston skirt actually pokes past the bore.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 Yes but there will only be wear where the rings travel and the rings don't run that low in the cylinder.
a 700k mile service truck would be on its third engine.
I got 800,000 on mine. Injectors are dead giveaway if it's high or low mileage.
Keep in mind it may have lots of engine run hours vs engine mileage. Could of had tons of idle time on it.
Exactly, mileage is useless, UPS trucks are toast after a few thousand miles due to constant stop start and many hours of slow driving...sane thing with the Toyota mine trucks...
Or it could have been worked to death. Like one of the 85 horsepower diesels in the original Mercedes G Wagens.
I drive an F450 bucket truck, 50 hours a week, and it spends most of its time idling
@@motominded5275 it's not useless, both hours and miles are factors. Low RPM usage is less damaging
@@catinthehat5140 well, truckers use an engine idle setting to set their trucks at 1500 ish rpm’s to build oil pressure.
I had a similar conundrum, but in reverse. I bought an NA Miata with about 120k in 2014 from a guy who took it to a local oil change place near his house. I never took it there. Yet a few years later when I decided to sell it, I pulled the Carfax and found that the same oil change place somehow had been entering oil change records (presumably on the the previous owner’s other car), but on my VIN. The mileages entered were LESS than previously entered for the Miata, and hence showed as a red flag in the Carfax report. I never got it corrected, and obviously I declared actual mileage when I sold it. But basically those oil change places can cause trouble and confusion for Carfax reports.
This is an excellent point. Sadly oil change places are low paying jobs jobs with an emphasis on being quick and max profits. Employees tend to hate their jobs and are sometimes even given incentives to cut corners. So not updating a VIN number probably happens a lot. What’s worse is when they don’t change the filter because it requires dropping a belly pan or is next to a super hot exhaust. Or they strip or or round off the drain bolt. Or they under or over fill the oil. Or they use the wrong oil. Or you pay for full synthetic but get the cheap stuff. It’s all been documented.
A lot of these oil change places barely train their employees to change oil and do the documentation some have experience at oil changes and other mechanical service but employers have to pay for their experience, I very seldom let someone else do a oil change on my vehicles, for one they use cheap unknown oil filters. They sometimes use cheap oil also, so really you don't know the quality of things they are using in your vehicle. I may pay more for premium oil and filters and do the work myself but I know it's done rite.
It's money laundering if you think about it you'll figure it out
After a hard 11+ hour day at work that didn't go well, it was so enjoyable to watch this video. :)
I would say 70k. The reason being I have worked on plenty of these engines. Normally the plug going into the valve cover gets replaced around 200k, and those look like original plugs. On top of that the valve cover harness look original too. And I have never seen a valve cover gasket last more than 100k miles.
You are so wrong.
@@thunderroad7289 How you gonna tell someone they're wrong and not tell them how they're wrong lmao.
your 💯 correct but what about the harness on top the motor new ford factory valve cover injector harnesses would be spliced in ..... which I'd ne er use aftermarket.
The exhaust bolts still have corners, 700k I'd expect them to be almost useless from heat cool cycles much less excessive salt exposure.
Interesting that in the truck pics the service body was eaten up but the cab seemed fine. The body could have been lifted from an older truck. I do know that 7.3s can easily run to 700k miles if properly maintained but the labels would be cooked. Those labels look close to what they did when it left International's Indianapolis engine plant.
I’m going with 70k miles just with a ton of winter idle time. When you were showing the cam, I caught a glimpse of some of the cylinder bores, and they looked almost new. The crosshatching would be gone if it had 700k.
As other people have mentioned, the truck had a service body. To me personally it looks like it was a hard working 7.3. I see rust a lot but I live in Canada so that’s why. What caught my eye is that the injectors looked pretty much factory, which someone mentioned. I think it’s had a lot of idle time and hard driving since it looked like a service truck. Also depends on the oil that the service place used, running 15w40 is hard on diesels in the winter. I drive a diesel and run 5w40 all year round.
I have a 96 7.3 so in the winter I can run 5w 40 will it be easier to start in the cold ?with being plugged in of course
@@bigdaddydaddy3203 Yes it will start much easier in the winter. Running thinner oil though will increase the probability of oil leaks.
Nice day to come through. Rainman Ray can't post repair videos right now. You scratched the itch for the day.
He may not be uploading repair videos but he is keeping us updated on how he's holding up in Ian
I’m a mechanic in the Chicago area and those exhaust manifolds are clean for being a Chicago engine, I’d lean more towards it being a lower mileage engine unless the headers were replaced which also wouldn’t be surprising
I’d say it is more than likely 70k but it just had a lot of cold starts in sub zero temps and maybe not the best oil change history overall which caused excessive bearing wear
And maybe 15w40 when it should have had 5w40
This is an interesting video. After a while, viewing broken engine internal parts gets old. You're a teacher, and you found a good subject to present. Thanks for the change!
I'm rebuilding one of these right now. This one has 80k but was used offroad in a wildland firetruck, and they used starting fluid trying to get it to start (actually the valve cover gasket and wiring had failed). The bearings were pretty bad, almost like the ones you showed. The starting fluid really tears things up on these TDI motors, as does the idling to keep the AC on.
Lol you wanna talk about starting fluid. Watch some zip ties and bias plies on RUclips. Abuses the hell out of a 7.3 with the old Cosby in a can and she just takes it.
" and they used starting fluid trying to get it to start"
Did it come from Slave Lake? MINT!!!
@@BadWolf762 oh she’s cheechin
@@BadWolf762 "How dare you!"
I’d say the bearing condition came from idling. I’ve seen a bunch of 7.3 and 6.0 eat cans of starting fluid with zero issues to the bottom end. The issue is if you don’t unhook the glow plug controller and the intake heater on the later trucks. Had a friend learn about the intake heater when he used starting fluid on his 03 lol.
I am going to agree with Randall Vos. 70,000. A service truck in the upper mid-west, would most likely idle long hours daily. I ran a service truck back in the early 90's for almost 5 years. In the Milwaukee area. 6 days a week, I started the truck at 6 am and backed it out of the shop. and put it away mostly after 7pm. In the winter I never shut it off, I had an extra set of keys in my pocket and just let it run and locked it up when unattended. It may have been used in construction depending on how they used it, It may have run year round.
So just letting her run like u did how many miles did it have or better yet where is the old girl now did u sell it ?
I don't have the slightest idea how many miles are on that engine but I definitely enjoyed the video. I never saw the inside of an engine until I watched your channel. Super interesting.
From the UK : Love the "I Do Cars" sense of humour re: drained oil pans!
Hope the new addition to the family is doing well. As for that engine... I'd say 70k with many Cold Starts, and a ton of engine hours from idling. Or if it was used to plow snow, then it would have experienced high load for extended periods.
I'm in agreement with everyone else that has mentioned it: lots of cold starts and idle time. I'd say sell it whole. It looks like a great starting point for a project the way it is without doing a complete teardown.
I'd bet it's a 70K mile engine. I purchased a beater truck 20 years ago or so that been sold 3 times within a year (it had an engine problem that others couldn't seem to find the simple cause) so it had several title transfers and carfax entries. The truck had 168k on the odometer. The mileage on the title went from 168k to 186k in a months time, and the carfax mileage tracked the title.
Borescope view of the cylinder walls would be useful. Wonder what kind of ridge the piston rings have left in there? 70k miles maybe, but could have a bejillion hours overall, judging by the crank bearings extreme wear.
The oil change shops could have assumed the last digit in the odometer was 10th's when it was actually miles. Everything on top points to low milage though. hard call. 700k on a set on bearing on a service truck is stretching it but they could also be the second set of bearing changed out as preventative maintenance. Since you can't be sure... strip it for parts unless you want to replace the water pump, the bearings and the harness and dyno it if there's that much difference in value.
As someone that used to own one of these trucks, & replaced the valve cover gaskets, that far lower bolt on the back of the valve cover by the turbo is near impossible to get back in or remove at all with the engine in the truck.
The fact Is has the rear bolts means it is either low miles, or that they had a rly good mechanic working on it. Same goes for the injectors, if they are original you can look up the serial of the injectors on the solenoid cap.
Secondly that serial on the injectors would change & if the injectors are rebuilt that solenoid gets replaced.
Thirdly, since it has a service bed on it, & is 2015 the likelyhood they it was low mile for that long sounds strange, & how clean the up pipes are.
Definitely an original turbo. AlliedSignal acquired and adopted the Honeywell name in 1999, not long after that engine was produced.
I was also tentatively voting for 70k… but there are two things that are odd. The fact that all info sources are consistent after the first time 680k+ was reported. And, if the decimal was shifted, why were they changing the oil every few hundred miles toward the end? Only thing I can think of to explain both is maybe the cluster flaked out and they swapped it with a junkyard unit that just happened to show almost exactly 10 times the miles. Then the oil change intervals might make sense.
But then the bearings… yeah, that’s a lot of wear for 70k unless it was neglected and thoroughly abused. I’ve seen factory original diesels with more than 700k that had rod bearings that looked a lot better than that, so I don’t think it’s out of the question it could be that high.
I dunno. Maybe the better question is whether that generation of Super Duty truck would last 700k and 16 years in Chicagoland? Yeah it was pretty rusted in the pics, but imo not 700k levels rusted. So I’m gonna go back to my original assessment of 70k, with the caveat that it lived a really rough life. Maybe pull the glow plugs and scope the cylinders, see what condition they’re in. If they’re in as bad of shape as the bearings, that thing’s gonna need an overhaul anyway.
Absolutely correct on Allied/Honeywell, worked for Allied during the acquisition of Honeywell and we we're all so pissed to lose our heritage and pick up the Honeywell name
It is also possible that the stock turbo has been rebuilt. I did new bearings and seals in the 2000 I had with a repair kit.
I can see a fat-finger happening, too. Look at your ten-key: 5 right below the 8. If that error initially happened and the owner caught it, instructions to just add a digit to avoid an apparent odometer rollback could have happened. Selling with a rolled back (or even seemingly rolled) odometer is harder than selling a truck with 700k miles. And the techs at the quick oil change places aren't exactly the most attentive when they want to keep pushing customers through.
@@johnhull6363 Well said. The company went to hell after Honeywell management took over!
If you look at the turbo casting you can clearly see the 'ett' cast into the housing suggesting a Garrett .
YAY You finally did my fav engine!!! I've tore several down and rebuilt a few and still own a few, I'm pulling a T444E out of a school bus now. Thanks man I really like your vids! I've put 515k on one truck with the stock engine and it still has plenty of go left in it after eating glow plug tips and all lol. And @11:09 yes the paint marks on the heads are what you SHOULD find on all the heads via the valve cover, never seen one that wasn't I'm sure if the heads had been redone that wouldn't be there but seems I've always gotten stock engines that had not been opened before.
Ugg those bearings are horrible if that's 70k then they weren't changing the oil but that isn't the story under the valve cover....
Thanks again!
The bearings should have a date code stamped in the back of the bearing. At least some manufacturers did. That would tell that they are original to engine or have been rebuilt. I doubt someone would find date coded bearings to keep the truck original. I’m more towards 70K with poor oil change maintenance or an owner that was used to driving gas engines. Start and go drivers. Looked like cylinders still had cross hatching, that would be worn at around 200K, by 6.0 experience. Thanks for the videos. Hopefully the family is doing well.
Can't beat an old 7.3 power stroke! I been working on them since they were in the 7.3 idi configuration. They are nearly always clean inside even if neglected and you won't find one that's been destroyed from being run without oil as they usually won't start if they are more than a gallon low on oil. As others have said I bet the condition those bearings is from high idle time and/or infrequent service.
*Edit* I'd love to see you tear down an old idi 7.3, they are archaic by today's standards but they were pretty advanced when they were new.
I have a 96 7.3 ya can’t kill the mfr ya just can’t kill it the truck sadly is in a rotting stage but the motor runs like a clock I almost want to find a good shell and take mine out and drop it in another truck I’d really love to see him take one of those down to nothing but I’m sure they are hard to find they don’t die
I'm curious, why doesn't it start when low on oil? I recently got my first 7.3 (a _beautiful_ 170k DRW, 5 speed, garage queen toy hauler) and I'm soaking up as much wisdom from the old-timers as I can.
Oh , best way to check is the oil intercooler on the side of the motor. They slowly build up shmoo as well as the coolant side of the intercooler .
Judging by the Carfax, valve cover /injector harness, cross hatching and overall cleanliness id say its 70K miles. Defiantly a hard 70K with a lot of cold starts and idle time based of the bearings and camshaft wear.
Usually when a 7.3 is run hard, you will find broken exhaust manifold bolts on the rear of the engine. Dash cluster changed perhaps? They didn't use Archoil on this engine!
Archoil! 👍
No doubt if that engine had Archoil , or Schaefer's oil in it everything would be new. They probably put the cheapest Dino swill in there they could find and probably the wrong weight as well
Love the mid week video. It was good seeing ya at the last Cars and Coffee at Holman Motors.
Awesome mid week post! Just what I needed to make it to the weekend! Thanks Eric!
Any video from you is a good video my man. In this scenario though just play it safe by making it a teardown. It'll give you peace of mind to know it all good.
Probably did only 70K but god knows how many hours it sat running at the jobsite. As a work/service vehicle, it likely got treated as a rented mule on the oil changes during its first years.
Will be interesting to read on other people's thoughts on this 7.3.
According to the car fax it was getting it’s oil changed more often than needed (mileage) in that 60-70k range, but like you say, who knows before then. That would explain the bearing damage. After that 🤷♂️
Especially true if it had engine driven accessories like an air compressor or generator. Guess that's why most tractors have hour meters instead of miles.
Hello Eric, 1) Carfax is just a reporting agency. All they get is computer generated information. 2) If those main bearings get any thinner Reynolds Aluminum Corp would put them in a roll of foil wrap. 3) The cam wear is is not that of a 70k mile engine unless there were no oil changes but under the valve cover is clean as a whistle. 4) The crankshaft has a lot of grooves on the journals. 5) There are way to many anomalies for a 70k mile engine. Another terrific video sir, I'm waiting for a part 2 TEAR DOWN VIDEO. 😢, How is the new baby doing ???? TMP from N.J.
i am going to say 70k. Going by the photos of the truck. The bottom of the doors, fenders, cab. it is respectfully clean for a Chicago truck,, especially for its age and being a service work truck but the service bed on the other hand probably picked up most of the rust itself. That engine looked relatively clean, wire harness loom, connectors as he mentioned, etc
Also, service beds often last through a couple of trucks. So that bed could have been worked on multiple trucks in a fleet.
@@kylepeterson8578 Absoutely. looks like it came on there factory! only if one didn't know it was a Cab and chassis truck or not! lol
@@kylepeterson8578 Yep. I'm betting that's the 2nd or 3rd truck it's on. It uses tail lights from a chevy van that stopped production in the early 90s.
@@mmiller1188 Good eye, i didn't see that.
I've rebuilt quite a few of those 7.3s, I see the ones that just idle all day and the insides look just like that one. Many of them were low miles but I like to think idle time is just an easy 10miles/hr.
I average 1 hour on a forklift to at least 10 miles.
Caterpillar claims 20,000 hours is roughly 1,000,000 miles equivalent.
Ford says 1 hour idle time is the equivalent of around 24 miles
@@catfishbilly7425 I think this is probably more accurate. I do maintain a couple forklifts with 20k+ hours. I believe the Mazda fe is still original in them.
@@typrus6377 but that’s different tho, most them 20,000 hours is spent wide open, diesel live for that while at a low idle everything is lower plus a lot of soot/contamination in oil with lower oil changes causes that type of wear
I say 70k. Service trucks idle A LOT. The wear isn’t is indicative of 700k. At low idle Diesel engines can wear more cause the temp and oil pressure go down. The cross hatch in the cylinders looked amazing though.
Another thing you could look at is how the oil pan was “glued on” like you say. Doubtful a shop would do it the exact same way as the factory. Silicone, different adhesives, etc, etc. Long shot, and doesn’t tell you much, but may give you a little more info on if the bottom end has possibly been into before.
I'm rebuilding one that got dusted at 180k. The rod bearings where much nicer. Just started showing copper on all of them. Along with the other comments I would bet it has a ton of idle time hence the frequent oil changes the frequent oil changes and more oil leaks then I'd expect from 70k miles.
Cold starts and lots of idle time could account for the bearing wear. If you could put it on an engine stand and run it and check for blow by that would give an indication of top end condition.
Run it or tear it down now or after it gets a run test. Needs to be torn down unless it runs so well the thing is an easy sell🤔🤷🤣only your conscience really knows what's right😤💛....
The oil change records are the key. If it only had 70k, that would mean someone had the oil changed with 231 miles and 3 month time, followed by 1 month and 259 miles. So clearly, the engine has 700k, and the oil changes were happening at 2311 miles and 2597 miles. Nobody would get back to back oil changes within a few months with only a few hundred miles.
People can be strange man. I used to work in a tire shop and ee had this old guy with like 13 cars. Every spring he would drive a flatbed truck loaded with summer tires. we would balance all of them and put them on his cars. balance his snows coming off and load them back on the flatbed. in the fall he came back and we balnced all of his snows (though they hadnt been used since we balanced them when we took them off) and put them back on. Most of his cars never even got driven except to get the tires swapped out.
ive worked at a shop for 8 years i cant count on 2 hands the old persons who come in with sub 3k miles, but want it changed, and wont take any reasoning lol., you'd be surprised how many people are out there like this lol.
Nah ppl are fools, the OEM stickers not being baked off alone tells me 70k
If the truck had 700,000 miles it’s likely that the motor had been replaced at some point.
@@gregbuser4690 not necessarily, the condition of barrings is suspect and if they were changing the oil every few hundred miles then they wouldn't look like that
Until I saw the bearings and rod journals, I was leaning toward 70k. After seeing the bearings, I'm leaning toward the engine having been very well maintained (based on how clean it is), but with 700k miles. I can see why others think the engine wear is from cold starts, however. The engine does look very clean inside and out as if it only has 70k miles.
Eric,
Not all 99s had an analog cluster. I am fairly confident that it had a digital odometer, which often caused these errors. Call a Ford dealer with the VIN to double check.
Were they backlit LCD digital? We had them in Australian Fords of that era and the lamp would blow making them very hard to read.
@@stephenw2992 no, regular green pixilated odometer
I'd say it may have somewhere between 70k mi to 85k mi. But with bearings in that condition, I'd like to see a teardown 👍🏻👍🏻
Like others have said, it may have a lot of idle hours, which is a very accurate observation.
I'd say it has 70k miles. It being a diesel with a service bed would be in line with low miles but very high idle hours. Long hours idling with low oil pressure at idle would do the damage to the bearings and cams as seen here
Been watching your channel for a while now, love the carnage videos. This one I found very interesting kinda energized the brain cells. Subscribed.
I'm betting that was a lower mile engine with a ton of idle time and cold start straight to abuse "cuz I didn't buy it". You're not getting 700k out of an F350 chassis that was part of a fleet in the salt belt. The truck would have disintegrated long before that engine hit half that. It doesn't look like 70k though, more like 150-200k. The carfax mileage looks like they may have replaced the cluster or had some electrical problem that caused an error in the reading, because it was remarkably consistent before and after the extra digit was added.
I'm guessing 70k just because the engine is so clean both inside and outside. Great video. 👍
Going to go with 70k. The up pipes aren't caked with soot from tens of thousands of heat cycles which will cause the donut gaskets to shrink.
I saw the scoring on the crank when you pulled the first rod bearing and went "oh no!"
Engine appears to have been well maintained. Bearings are shot. From what I could see of the cylinder walls, the crosshatching is still very apparent. I think it needs a good rebuild, and will be ready to go for a few hundred thousand miles more.
I so wish I knew enough to contribute to the discussion, but I don't, so I won't. However, I can can comment on the video itself, and your intent behind it......AWESOME! A touch of mystery, a bunch of discussion and a bunch of intriguing information. I wanted to stop the video and read the comments then watch more. I didn't, but that's how fascinated I was. In other words, this was informative, involving and very cleverly done. Eric, nice job!
I got a Tacoma from Copart they said had 480k miles on it. It was only 2 years old and I was like...that has to be wrong. I went and looked at it and it was actually 48k miles lol. I ended up getting it cheap since some people probably thought it was 480k miles.
Appeared to have low milage, due to the injectors appearing original, under valve cover harness is a factory part, up pipes aren't leaking, harness is in great condition, appears to have the original turbocharger and still had the original icp. Usually about 200-300k these engines require most of the items previously listed to be replaced. Ive worked on a few that had more than 500k and they are so leaky and dirty with multiple injector replacements. But those bearings tell different story, Ive never had to tear into the bottom end of one so not sure if that amount of bearing wear is normal low milage (I doubt). Keep up the great videos
That's about the bearing wear I would expect at 70k.... for an S85
Or a 7.3 that spent most of it's life idling.
I don't really care, but always enjoy an upload from the channel! ❤️
Mid-week video? Eric, are you testing us to see how close we follow when you upload?
Same thing happened to me at an inspection station. They assumed because of the age of the car that it didn’t have 86,000 miles. It must be 186,000 miles. I had no idea until I went to sell it and a buyer pulled a carfax. Boy I was mad but they too could see the discrepancy in the data so they bought it anyway.
600k miles added between New Years at the end of 2014 and Feb 3rd just two months later. That means 10k miles were put on it everyday (average) between 12/30/14 and 2/3/15. That's driving across the USA back and forth TWICE per day!
Which would be impossible xD How long does it take to do a crosscountry trip? 2 days (maybe 1 if you don't stop)?
If you leave Birmingham, Alabama at 8am CST, you end up in San Bernardino, CA and Glen Helen Raceway park approximately 30 hours later only stopping for gas (combining food at the gas stops).
works out to 416 miles/hr
My 2000 built 10/99 7.3 has almost 16,000 original miles. Crew Cab, long bed, Lariat. It’s a classic!
Tear it down. The bearings and cam should be enough to make you comfortable knowing it was better to go to just selling the good parts. I wish I was building a truck. I have always wanted a 7.3.
I would say that it had 70k miles driving but had 600k worth of idle time. I believe the clue is the service body on the truck it came out of, chances are high it drove to a job site and idled for long periods. I would say that the odometer jump was an input error and the wear you saw on those bearings is consistent with a high use especially high idle time engine. Probably have a good re-builder though, block, rods, crank, heads etc need refinished then R&R the rest and slap her in another truck. Love your channel and love the frankness you share with us. Keep up the good work :D
the carfax tells the story on this one, even if the bearings look rough.
A lot of good comments that make sense, low mileage, hard life. Back when I was in the Navy... seriously, though, we had a wrecker at a service station that needed a rear main seal at 10 years
This looks to me (a non-expert) like a 70K mile engine that was maintained well, but used abusively over a long period of time - short trips, lots of idling, maybe towing.
I say tear it down and make a video if that's a better revenue generator than selling it as a rebuildable core, since it's pretty obviously not sellable as a good engine. That rod journal looked pretty rough, such that I think it'd be a hard sell to someone who wants to just slap it in their truck and drive.
That bore we could see had plenty of cross hatching. It’s a badly looked after 70k mile engine. Maybe lots of idling. Before it was crashed it had some oil changes which helped clean it up I suspect. I love your vids sir please keep ‘‘em up. I also am amazed you don’t have 500k subs. You will soon I bet. BTW. Has anyone told you that you look like Adam Sandler …..
I'm going with the CarFax is power of 10 off -- probably is 70K engine, BUT; being a service truck; it probably idled for very LONG periods. Those rod bearings should be down to the copper at 150K on that engine -- hence, why I think it idled for long periods.
Michigan guy here. We measure our salt use by the tons per lane mile. Michigan averages 22 tons per lane mile. The next closest state averages 13-15. Engines in the rust belt with any sort of 10k/yr or more track record will be shedding weight in the form of rust flaking off. By the exterior condition of the engine, it looks like 70k. The body rot is likely due to age. The rust is all low on the vehicle indicating it wasn't driven at really high speeds like it went down the free way a lot, and it just never got washed or stored indoors and all the road gunk just sat on it and rotted the bottom off of everything. The oil pan wasn't even rusty and it's pretty common for them to rot through if they get a lot of road time.
I'd check out the registration history if possible to see what entity owned it and that'll be a huge help in finding out what kind of service industry this truck provided. If it's a truck shop that had it initially and used it for service calls, it didn't drive much, and likely just idled a ton which resulted in the bearing wear. It could have been used in the ports where it pretty much got driven around the yard and was used to maintain and fix equipment and never got slush anywhere above the rocker panels. But it idled a FUCK ton while out on the docks servicing things. The service body probably got crappy, and it was sold off to the dealer when they got a new one and someone picked it up cheap because of the low miles, drove it around, that's where the service history at the oil change shop started, someone done goofed on the mileage reading and their system wouldn't allow a lower mileage entry than the previous one so they just continued down the path multiplying the mileage by 10 until it got wrecked. Copart probably pulled the history you did and either rounded up to the nearest 100k, or did a quick check on the cluster upon intake and said close enough.
Either way, this thing had a lot of run time but not a lot of miles. I wouldn't part it out, but sell it as a complete engine good for rebuild. It's a clean engine, it looks to be in great shape still, and will likely be perfect again with a fresh set of bearings.
Looking internally and the little amount of rust on it I'm betting that it's a 70k mile engine. But also looks like it had a rough 70k miles looking at the bearing's and camshaft.
Look at the crosshatching in the cylinder bores, the crosshatching looks perfect.
Save it, everything points to it being a good motor. But, there’s definitely more than 70k on it, and as others have stated, I feel it’s in hours.
A low mileage engine that was started on ether a LOT! Glow plus were a major issue, but costly to replace. Two of them being out would make it hard/impossible to start. Being in a cold climate, ether was the easy fix. That is the reason for the upper bearing "fatigue" and camshaft wear. Give it the ether (hard force on the upper rod bearing), rev the crap out of it to keep it running (no lube to the camshaft) and away you go!
Pull one main bearing lower and I'm sure you'll find the same wear as the upper rod bearings.
Is it possible the oil change place (which did the last several oil changes) used bulk passenger car oil like 5W-30 or 10W-30 instead of the stuff that was meant for diesels?
Yes, it is possible, in fact it is likely 😆
Used truck dealer here and the Carfax report to me tells the story. Quick Change oil centers have caused more issues with mileage discrepancies than all other sources combined. And when the ODO goes from 68,3xx to 685,xxx in a matter of two months I think it's pretty obvious what happened. Once the truck got to Copart it likely had a dead battery, no battery or something else that prevented an actual ODO reading and facilities like Copart and IAAI will either sell them as "0 miles- not actual" or they'll look at the last reported mileage on Carfax - in this case, from the same Quick Change store that likely caused the problem in the first place - and use that. Another clue to me is the condition of the wiring harness underneath the valve cover - it looked original and factory fresh. I can GUARANTEE you it wouldn't look like that with 697,000 miles.
I believe this is a 70K engine with many hours of cold-weather idling, typical of a service truck from up north. If it weren't for the mileage discrepancy I'd say it could be be a reman long block - the original valve covers would have been reused and the date code would still say 1998. But the discrepancy pretty much points to a clerical error. I think it would be smart to roll some bearings in it - and then sell it as such, carefully explaining to the buyer what we're discussing here. I believe the buyer would agree.
The bearing surfaces seem to point more towards 700K imo.
Quite a fun little mystery either way
But nobody would put a stock OEM turbo on right before they crashed
that kind of bearing wear can also be caused from sitting long periods of time. then being started without pressurizing the oiling system before cranking up.
@@timclarkjr1222 That's a really good point, I hadn't considered that.
70K on it. 1) being a turbo engine, you will see bearing wear, on the upper bearing shell, as compared to a naturally aspirated engine. 2) cold starts will also affect this, read, non-uniform bearing wear 3) agree with the increased idle time over miles. In that, you will see a lower oil pressure at idle and therefore, potentially, an increase in the upper bearing shell wear
I was at 70,000 with the original turbo maybe it has a ton of idle time
I don't know as much about diesel engines as some here. But I would like to try to add a couple of bits of information that may help explain a few things.
1. The accidented truck has all sorts of doors that were custom fitted to the pickup bed area. This to me, indicates that it was a service truck of some sort. While the truck itself probably had just 70K miles, the actual operating time on the engine in terms of operating hours was probably sky hight. I worked at an oil and gas services firm for a while, and when our trucks were on site, they basically idled all day, the never moved. So the mileage on the trucks was low, but the operating hours were sky high (this has to do with site safety regulations in the oil and gas industry-in the case of an emergency situation arising, they wanted everybody out as fast as possible, no looking around for keys to start the trucks, no finding out that the truck wouldn't start, essentially a hot stand by) because they would idle for 10 hours a day. if this truck was used for this purpose, it could have had 70K miles, and it could have had the bearing wear that was seen. Unlike what people believe, diesels (of all types) don't like to sit there idling, it is bad for the engines.
2. I think whoever first wrote up the mileage for the truck after the big "jump" in reported mileage misread the mechanical odometer, not knowing that the white last digit was actually in 1/10 of a mile. Automatic jump from 68K miles to 680K miles. The last two mileage readings for the truck prior to the accident were made by the same oil change place, and probably by the same guy, so the mileage was misread both times.
Just the condition of the OEM stickers makes me think 70k cuz every one I've ever worked on had them cooked off
The bearings do look kinda rough but I don't know if that's normal at 70k like I know the stickers aren't normal at 150k+
Two things that stood out to me: 1.) You said this pickup was from Chicago. 2.) You did not mention whether/not this engine had a block heater (keeps oil warm). We know with certainty that diesels absolutely DO NOT like to start when it is cold (sub-zero). I have been in Chicago in Jan/Feb, -20F is commonplace. Oil turns to molasses, and you WILL get excessive bearing wear on a cold start b/c engine lubrication is almost nil until the oil comes up to temp. Not unusual up there to leave diesels idling so they don't freeze. Just my 2 cents, but I think you've got a 70K engine with TONS of winter idle hours on it that definitely needs a complete rebuild. I also think the cluster was replaced at some point. Anyway, that's just my personal opinion. Good Luck.
I know it would be hard to find but I think it would be great if you got a Ford 300 or AMC i6
Fellow mechanic here. That engine appears to be a 70,000 mile engine that was not maintained with the proper oil , or preheater for the climate it was being run in and had spent excessive time idling. I spent some time in Fairbanks Alaska and watched brand new trucks with less than 20,000 miles on them seize up at cold start when forced to start with no oil heaters. Idlingen engine at normal idle speeds for extended durations is very bad for the bearings. That's why they make high idle modules. You have to keep things spinning fast enough to keep your oil pressure up and to keep enough heat in the oil to prevent acidification. Yank the crank out toss new bearings in inspect the cam and cylinder walls very closely. Document everything perhaps even with photographs or video. Reassemble with fresh bearings if you find everything else to be acceptable. List it as a running core. Love the channel.
Actually I want to add one more step to my recommendation. If you do intend to put it back into service send that crank out and have the journals polished first before you drop bearings in it. And obviously plasti gauge everything. 👍
I worked at a place and I personally rebuilt over 150 of these engines I could tell the year just by looking at this is a low miles there is no way that in Chicago that body and that engine held up with that little of rust for almost 700,000 I've seen vehicles with less than 70,000 rusted all the way through my bet is the first owner did all his own maintenance then it was sold to somebody else that was going to these quick change places
Yeah now I don't know those bearings are pretty bad
The detective video is cool man!
My guess us the Odo flipped and the engine has 300,000ish on it. The "6" was from the thousands place and several people took the Carfax as gold and ran with it.
Still has cross hatching in the cylinders!!!!! Has to be 70k !!!!!
My favorite engine of all time. My 7.3 has severed me for 2 decades and still runs good.
My 400k 7.3 has the original turbo but I did install a wicked wheel compressor
Did this truck have a manual odometer? My 1985 Dodge plow truck didn't show past 100,000 miles. However, remember, with every push with a plow truck, they back up. When it backed up, so did the odometer.
Plus, idling during winter with lower oil pressure can cause the bearings to be wiped out like that.
Considering the long gap of many years in the CarFax report, if the oil wasn’t changed (just added when needed), could account for excessive wear on the rod bearings. One thing that can’t be hid in a high mileage engine is the cylinder bore taper. Due to wear from the piston rings, the diameter of the cylinder would me much larger near the top, than the bottom of the cylinder.
I’m on the 70k miles side and think the cylinder bore will be the determining factor.
Read 50 comments, and can't resist. Truck has replacement dash/odo. Heads and turbo came off a low mileage wreck, what had been siting in the bone yard. Carfax should have shown 10 header fan motor replacements!😜
It's too sketchy I would tear it down to be safe! Great video! Hey, I won't mention the Mitsubishi Mirage 3cylinder this time! OK? OK!
Good video mate, something different. But, yea, I'd say it's done 70k but although it seems well serviced it has had a hard time, a lot of cold starts then thrashed and a lot of idle time.
Yeah... those bearings are 700K bearings. Just rebuilt mine with almost 400K and they were alot better than those but definitely not perfect. It's hard to run a 7.3 low in oil cause the injectors fire off oil pressure so when it gets too low it won't even run.
I'm going to bet on the 70K actual "ticker time" with ALOT of idle time. I really do like the idea of a service body snow-plow vehicle, based upon the "body rot" in the pictures. Early Navistar's did not store mileage in the PCM. Bill Hewitt can tell you stories about 7.3s in ambulances, idling for hours. He probably could give you suggestions, even though he pretty much has farmed out his 7.3 work in Buford, GA. My take would be to sell it as a "rebuildable complete" engine. Since you have already pulled a couple of bearings, you know that the engine is going to need some "probable" machine shop review. Lastly, as a plow vehicle, there would be idling time, as well as heavy intermittent bearing loads during "plows".
Your Minnesota copart connection here.
Digging through our archives, I pulled up the mileage photo and it last read 699, 341 miles.
If you need any more help with copart vehicles, feel free to reach out and DM me
This is why I would love to see the hours of operation for each motor, not just miles driven. Idle time means a lot too, if not more so.
It really should be mandatory.
On the Ford Crown Vic Cop cars, if you hold the reset button on the odometer, it shows idle hours, don't know if that's possible in trucks case....
I would pit a starter on it and do a compression check. I know the numbers will all be low, but I'd be looking to see large differences as the pistons crack and you will usually find one or two cracked pistons on a 7.3 with higher mileage. First thing I noticed with that 7.3 is NO soot on the down pipes. There's no way that has high mileage without a ton of soot. And why replace the down pipes with factory ones that leak when you can install bellowed down pipes that don't leak? I mean, it's a real pita to change them! Another thing I noticed is the CPS is an original gray one. Sure, it could have gone the cycle of being replaced with the newer ones that caused problems and then someone found a gray one to put back on it, but maybe it's the original one, By the way, both my hotshot truck and my daily driver have 7.3's from CoPart wrecks - I've been real lucky there!