I was VERY critical of the selection of Tom Curry and of Henry Slade - but I have to concede, both had their best games in a long time!! Well done to both.
I've noticed that English club teams,as a general unit,tend to blowout around the 55-60minute mark ,in euro cup games. England were similar,yesterday. Are the players overloaded in the English prem? I think it might be a contributing factor. England were more than a match for us up to that point.
I like Freddie Stewart love a full back who dominates the air but if I was an England fan I'd be getting worried about the list of highlight reels for other players he's on, mostly making him look silly with steps it seems to grow every few weeks
@Daniboi971 I used to say he was slow, too. But, to be fair, his running and attacking has really improved. Overall, he's a better player now than when everyone thought he was God's gift and was locked-in for 10 yrs.
@@speak_your_truth. It's been going on for YEARS. So frustrating to watch. And I think the points made here about selling ourselves short in the lineout are spot on.
From an irish fan, England have destructive ball carriers, demonstrated again today in first 20 minutes. So their commitment to kicking away attacking ball - led by Smith and Slade - is so strange to watch. They'll do the same thing against Scotland, Italy etc. Feel like this must be contributing to the continued sense that this team is underperforming with the talent they have.
It's a modern tactic. South Africa and some others have proved that the team with the lowest possession often wins with a good defence and clinical opportunitistic finishing. What ya think of them apples 😂😂
Totally agree. They look great when they run it but usually choose to kick. Case in point when Steward fielded an Irish kick he ran it back only for Smith to kick it back to Ireland on the next phase. Made no sense. They looked better ball in hand first ten and last ten.
@ That's a dated stat. Eddie Jones banged on about it. The top four teams in the world all have diametrically opposed game plans. England kicked more than all of them in the 2023 RWC. Some attacking kicking is a necessity but when England can win gainline (an area Ireland can struggle sometimes), I believe they lose a lot of momentum and cough up opportunities for points. Also if the above logic followed, they'd want to be very low on defensive penalties, but that's never been a strength for this modern England team. In my opinion.
@@bybdy maybe the rule changes of last year might have changed all that. If IF we Ireland can beat Scotland next week then it's the French maestros the week after. I think they will beat us but it should be an absolute corker of a match. And possibly getting beat by rugby of the calibre of Duponts rugby will feel less crushing as you reflect on how exactly did he do that. Dupont is a force an exception to any rule he is wonderful.
Interesting comment about England being out on their feet. I reckon they put in so much into properly competing against a world class side, their knackeredness was surely inevitable. The Irish are total beasts...and the French will also be one hell of a challenge- they looked massive against Wales last night!
@danniboi971 - Fair assessment that the rush defence on every occasion is going to tire the team and surely the coaching staff know this, BUT then there has to be either fitness or strategy changes to counter the issue!! In the last ¼ most of the players were knackered, including the Irish, but the Irish were better at managing it. Ireland bench also outplayed England's bench.
We seem to be the only team in the 6 nations still obsessed with this constant kicking game ala Eddie jones. It was clear early on Ireland were winning most of the knockdowns, and they are too good a side to give them back possession constantly, especially when you see they are starting to get round the blitz etc. It’s makes our rugby so painful to watch. Ironically the tries we scored came when we didn’t kick it and actually looked dangerous running it
There's nothing wrong with good kicking. What kills teams is bad kicking. We kicked badly - you need to learn the difference. The Red Roses are world no.1 and everyone emjoys their matches - they kick the most out of all women's teams.
I love ben earl and obviously think he’s great but I think he might be even better as an impact sub off the bench against tired legs, give tom willis the starting number 8 jersey because then he can really get into the game from the off and show his premiership form
@@jamzy24 Horses for courses. I see Willis getting a start soon with CCS starting. Underhill back in and Chessum coming back up to form, we have options.
Both Currys impressed me with their activity today busy everywhere. Mitchell's kicking off ruck was quality today but made lot of mistakes in defense. I still think Furbank is your best 15 when fit I think he has much better back field awareness and defense positioning.
Agree except we're wedded to this dumb idea that we play Marcus Smith with Mitchell and Furbank and then bring Fin Smith on late and at a stage where we sub Micthell and Furbank and move Marcus Smith to FB. It's just such an obvious way to increase team cohesion to reverse that.
I’m very happy for Murley. And I hope he is given time to grow at this level. Everytime he got the ball he made metres, worked so hard in making sure we had good ball. And his try and assist were great; equally his mistakes were big but few. His numbers are comparable to LBB from France in terms of metres carried, tackles and beat three defenders compared to LBB’s 5. Our organisation cost us that game, not mistakes. Marcus Smith moving to fullback wasn’t what the game needed, Randall wasn’t either. What’s the point of tactical flexibility if your changes were pre determined?
@ Rugby is a team game, no one on the England side covered themselves in glory. Yes Murley made mistakes, but they’re clearly down to nerves. And when he got the ball he made metres, scored a try, and assisted one off of Lawrence’s back. So no I’m not making a joke, it was a good performance underneath the media microscope; but he can and will get better, having watched him at Quins over the last 3 years I know he’s capable of being better
Scotland fan here. Just an observation, but is England's size of player pool and number of clubs in the Gallagher perhaps muddying the waters, and causing a lack of cohesion in the team? I ask because the French team is largely comprised of Toulouse and UBB players, Scotland from its two pro sides and Ireland from 3 of the 4 Provinces (only 1 Ulster player in R1) Can England really expect to gel as a team in the brief window before the 6N, given their players are drawn from so many clubs? No agenda, just wondering if there is an issue with selecting individuals instead of proven club combinations ...?
Steve hates picking players that don’t or haven’t played for sarries or tigers and god forbid he ever makes a captain out of a quins or west country player
What went wrong for England? 1) Most starters visibly tired after 55 mins 2) NO bench players ADDED anything, with the sole exception of Willis - who tried really hard. 3) Nightmare shifts from Murley & Mitchell defensively. Both were v good offensively. 4) Borthwick has ZERO attacking strategy - he relies on Marcus totally 5) Lineouts were horrible. LCD is a liability with consistent inaccuracy. 6) Steward is the world’s easiest FB to ‘step’, and provides little attack-wise
Agree on murley was absolutely shocking . Think the ref had a hand in changing the momentum with very marginal calls . The rest were not so bad and looked very good for periods of the game .
Firm disagree with Murley. Outside of those two howlers over the dead ball line, he was excellent. Made a lot of tackles and added to the England attack.
@@fraserposford144 I think I said, he was jittery defensively but had a good game going forward. Both of which I stand by - and nothing there that PROPER COACHING could not put right. But -since Fat Bill Sweeney and the blazers, seem utterly unconcerned - that’s clearly not going to happen, and Borewick will probably bin Murley …. which is the wrong call, whilst both Feyi and Ibitoye are crocked.
Just in from the game, was worried at half time, thought Englands blitz defence worked very well but they tired noticeably after 50 minutes. The losing bonus point could be very important at the end.
Don’t agree there chum. England are not hitting the rite notes in any order. Just not good enough. Obviously the players are giving more than 100% have coming off early but not sense of being dangerous to play against. I would be rubbing my hands to play them were I an internationally talented player. I’m not.
England might get better, but I think Ireland will also get better, so, honestly, I don't think it matters at all when we play England in the schedule.
One phase and kick regardless of position on field is killing England's attack, out of all those kicks we had one that resulted in a try. We have so much talent and its getting wasted with miss poor management. Wigglesworth without a doubt is the worst attacking coach I've ever seen and it makes sense since all he did was kick the ball away when he played. A good example was France yesterday creating phases and space to kick into rather than allowing defence to set. The last 5-10mins England kept ball in hand we need to do that more.
As an England fan I've been in a slump of not caring about the result but just wanting a good game to watch. I thought it was. Some interesting calls but that's the game. Too many penalties and itoje being part of that doesn't help as him captain.
We really missed Feyi-Waboso - he is a very young guy who has excellent positional and arial skills, unlike Murley, who was simply exposed by Ireland, who targeted him successfully. He shouldn’t play for England again until he proves he has sorted his issues with kicks. I agree Randall isn’t up to the standard and I think Spencer should have started anyway. He is physically more powerful aswell. I would love to see Quirk fit and back playing for England. Also Freeman isn’t quite a winger for me - he’s too slow - he’d be better at outside centre. Steward also is too weak in defence. The pack did ok, but need to give away fewer penalties, though England were unlucky at crucial moments in this game. It’s in the backs where England have more issues - they need Feyi-Waboso and Fairbanks back to get them up to last year’s level. I also prefer Sleighthome to Murley, though I understand he’s injured. Ireland were the better team, but England have potential still.
The same Cadan Marley that England fans have been screaming for for years? One game against arguably the best team in the NH, and you just want to drop him?
I might have missed this but I always think it's helpful to refer to what your rating scale is. eg for me 5 is a totally balanced performance. Contributed but not overall a huge plus or minus. 6 would be starting to make an overall positive performance. 10 would be a performance that we'll be speaking about in a years time and 9 a match-defining one. Normally the person I feel was an 8 is the MotM. Anything below 3 asks questions about whether that person should have been picked OR they made one or more very significant mistakes. Match losing in the same way as a 9 is acknowledgement of match defining. I also like to mark against a basic understanding of the quality of the opposition. So a 9 against the best French team would maybe be a 7 against a weak Welsh one with essentially the same performance.
Strongly disagree on the Marcus Smith front, he was incredibly quiet in the 2nd half until Fin came on and he went to fullback. Scored two tries in that configuration didnt we?
Tom Curry: Excellent. Himself reminds me of the bane of seeing and hearing Lewis Moody's name being on an English team announcement. Fierce, Brave, Ruthless, "Loopycidal".
I’ve never seen a call like the Itoje line out penalty. It was bizarre, even in football that would be deemed a complete farce, still struggling to see on what planet that is worth a penalty.
Yes I’m Irish, and it was exactly that, a complete farce; and given the timing, a key turning point in the match. If I was English I’d be so pssed at that. It is what it is & one has to pick oneself up .. Eng Fra will be close based on what I saw today
@denniswaites5593 No, I don't. You're implying that a single call lost the game for England, which clutches at straws mate. England where out played simple.
England are playing well but they have a problem I haven't seen people talking about. Rugby is inevitably a game of highs and lows and England can capitalise on their highs, but just can't minimise their lows. They need to devise and strategy (but most importantly grit) to pull themselves out of a momentum slump and turn the game around, not just wait for the other team to lose their momentum naturally.
Fantastic assessments as always Tim. One suggestion re player ratings: in a game of two very different halves it might be more insightful to rate per half and then total.
Harry Randall just isn’t an international quality 9. His skill set isn’t good enough to make up for his lack of size. Tough for England because no one is really putting their hand up behind Mitchell, but Randall just isn’t it…
@@Athorner.53 Spencer has been good for sure, but obviously already being 32 and lacking international experience, I can see why they don’t seem to trust him. Quirke could be the answer if he can stay fit….
Without wishing to upset England supporters, I really don't get Marcus Smith at all. He's clearly got talent but other than in occasional flashes, I find his game at international level underwhelming. IMO he's more of a show pony. He's still reasonably young and has time to improve but he really needs to focus on doing what is best for his team, especially if he wants a place in the Lions squad.
Irish fan . Imo as good as their kicking was , i felt their was too much kicking . Imo curry was man of the match . Fair play England, can see your improvements
Unfair to rate players when they play a doomed strategy. A physically exhausting strategy of kicking and chasing and highline defence leaves England exposed to strong attacking sides in second half / last quarter. Problem compounded by playing 3 no.7s and consequent lineout failings. Srategy of kick chase yielded little. The result is a team with exhausted defence and not scoring enough points to win. Progress is needed in strategy and coaching not from the valiant players.
Reading the comments, I find many of them ridiculous. The often stated 'fact' that England should be world beaters because of player depth is a myth. The premiership is teetering on the edge of financial oblivion. Compared to France and Ireland there is no money to create depth in the premiership teams. This has a predictable knock on effect for England. The best players are overworked, struggle to stay fresh and always carrying injuries. This is a structural problem and, while it remains true, England will continue to struggle.
Love this channel and the analysis you provide, on the dropping Murley point I’d put him on the bench that may be harsh but he’s been exposed under pressure. I’m really uncertain about Randall he’s had enough chances for me when will we see Quirke that lads electric
Big fan of the channel, Tim. Respectfully, i think you've overlooked LCD's defensive effort. We were backs against the wall a few times in the first half and ireland came away with nothing.
I’m so happy that the curry’s made a lot of people surprised of them playing together but being a sale fan watching them every week this is just a normal performance from them and I hope that it’s made all those people in the comments realise how good they are! Despite the result I think it was a good performance by England, attacking wise we didn’t offer too much in the second half and it didn’t help there were a few calls that didn’t fall our way but the team did alright few things to improve of course.
I agree with most of your marks, I didnt expect England to play as well as they did in the First half, Itoje got on the wrong side of the Ref and some media streams say he stamped on an Irish player.
murley probably needs to start though, any other winger will be outpaced too easily, Borthwick might bring in Radwan now he plays for his favourite club
A woman at the Test asked me do I think Leinster could actually beat England and she was Irish, I said yes I do believe they could. But she also thought that England were much fitter than Ireland and Ireland would be thrashed at half time, She in her ignorance had no idea that the Irish team was 98% Leinster. Maro Itoje questioned before the test, how hard it would be to face a Leinster dominant team, because cohesion is a huge benefit as England use to do when they were Saracen dominant.
Agree. I don't think that's a big call in a similar way prime Saracens could probably have beaten most of the 6 Nations teams you could have fielded against them. The value of familiarity of game plan and personnel that you get from a club team that plays together (which lets not forget is what teams like Ireland, Scotland and Italy are to a large part) is invaluable. It's why having a club lineout spine 2, caller, jumper is valuable. Or why you'd play a club 9 and 10 (and 15) together if you could ... well you would if you were a semi competent coach.
I would change murley for Sleightholme start Martin chessum and Willis dont Put smith at full back .Steward apart from sidestep overlaps for Tigers make him do same at international level.On yhe hour some players ran out of gas .Slade and Lawrence worked for once need more offloads .
To defend Fin Smith, Ireland had gained momentum way before Fin came on, he came on with 16 mins to go and then Marcus moved to full back, by that time Ireland had scored 3 tries. Personally I think England would play better with Fin starting, but I can understand why that will not happen soon. Regarding Murley,, he did make some howlers, I never heard why was Sleighthome dropped?
Why can you understand why it will not happen soon? Marcus Smith is doing a terrible job of getting the best out of the players around him which for me is the primary job of the 10. He had a genuinely poor game yesterday for all bar the first 20 and showed again that he's not a FB. Were building a team around an individual and it's clearly not working. That his competition already plays with up to half of the backs likely to start if all are fit should make picking him a no-brainer.
Finn Smith at 10. I'll die on this hill. He should be playing with his club partner Mitchell. We are not winning games with Borthwick and Marcus together.
I'll be there with you. Mitchell, F Smith and Furbank together gives the England backs their best chance of playing in a team sport and being more than the sum of their parts or you know we could waste another 30 caps on the Marcus Smith show, like the Muppet Show but with less talent.
Hi Tim, love your vids mate and wishing you every success. I comment mostly only on your you tube videos of all the content creators on RUclips I watch. I am eager to see your videos and squidge. I am big into heuristics and biases and have made similar comments on some of your videos , mainly on ref decision making and ref calls. I looked at this video last night and watched your Irish player rating this morning, went back to watch this video to check you weren’t biased as an English fan, not to be a dick but to point out any potential bias. I was happy to find your scoring of both teams was consistent. I happily found it was. Well done Tim! ps also I hope you get to Australia for the British and Lions tour. Is there any other way for your followers to sponsor you? Pss. I watch two cents for the southern hemisphere view. Pss. Your assessment of the impact of the bench was spot on. England are tracking nicely. Johnny Wilkinson made some great points in post match commentary about England, that they need to be rock solid and consistent on the basics/defence and the creativity will come. BOD also made a similar point in that England need to become more of an 80minute team. From an Irish and Munsterman.
Steward is great BUT his lack of speed when turning worries me. Murley will learn from those mistakes. Game management is the biggest worry, specially in the second half.
I said England's discipline would let them down and it really did! They were lucky to only have one man in the bin in my opinion! England's backrow was far better than ours but Jack Conan was outstanding off the bench! As was Jack Crowley and Thomas Clarkson, but Dan Sheehan is well and truly back baby! As physical as England were, Ireland were fitter and wore England down. Andrew Porter and Tadhg Beirne were absolutely outstanding! JGP deserved man of the match though!! Slowing down CCS, cover tackle on Slade and a try! Our kiwis stepped up big time!! Given how good England were, Ireland had to be brilliant to beat them and they absolutely were!! Great opening round of the 6 nations!! Feel Crowley was better than Prendergast but fairplay to Prendergast! I was nervous watching so can only imagine how nervous he was
I really like that. Perhaps overly lyrical. England were good in the first half but the Irish half time two was brilliant. Thought P’ghast struggled a little and nerves got the better of his Kicks. Crowley played brilliantly when he came in but Smith had already moved to 15 and the replacement England back row came up short I thought. Gutted to be honest. Well played Ireland……
@owenfarmer4197 great game of rugby!! England played really well but I do feel if their discipline was better they would've won that game! But an absolutely phenomenal Irish performance it has to be said! Glad you liked it!🤝👌
Recall when England used to run from fullback:- Josh Lewsey, Jason Robinson, Mike Brown. That seemed to be a good idea at the time. New Zealand play it very well. Do you think we could reinvent it? We can all recall the great fullbacks from the history of the development of the game, starting back in the 70’s, let’s reinvent it and run the ball back at the opposition, linking in with back row and wingers.
@expressoevangelism80 Could be the Gallagher Premiership. The pace, hits and size in Top 14 is much greater. The French teams are tearing up the Champions Cup. We have to level up, but we can't attract similar talent and therefore don't have a marker to compete against. Not saying we are bad, just not as competitive as we are stuck in the equivalent of a rugby echo chamber. Thoughts?
I'm French (well actually half English & French) and I think if England has a great start, taking the lead quickly, it will be very difficult for France. England will focus on Jalibert's weak defense and aim at Ramos with up & unders. In two years England has really improved and playing home is very important.
Really think Roebuck deserves a start. He’s so good in the air but I feel it’d be really unfair to Murley and would probably destroy his confidence if he were to be dropped. Also would pick Spenser over Randall on the bench. Personally think he’s more reliable and has a brilliant box kick.
Cadan Murley - 3. If he can't remember basic laws in an international match, why is he there? Sleightholme did nothing wrong and was dropped. Murley should be the next Hassell-Collins
Been saying that for a while. He does some good things in the loose but is not good at his day job. Also opposition teams target him as his tackling around the fringes is horrible. Decent player but a little overrated.
@@kevinpillay6103 He was asleep at ruck guard for a break that lead to the try. Same thing happened twice in the AIs. Some players are just very slow to learn. Ditto chopsing away to his opposite number and the referee rather than focusing on his actual scrummaging. You'd think that since being schooled by Fasogbon he's have smartened up but no.
@@EggchasersRugby Throwing out a hypothetical… We need a mutant to either start or replace him. Genge off the bench, I think helps the impact you’re looking for from a sub - even use him like Eddie did in France (Kick Return option)
Pretty much agree. Thought it was a great test match and the Irish boys I watched with were far more positive about our performance than it seems English fans were.....why is that? I would however make a few more changes for next week I'd start Willis alongside Chessum and TC (if fit seemed he was carrying that hip at the end) just for extra power against the French mountains....
Cunningham-South is so frustrating to watch sometimes. Unbelievable on occasion and looks world class at points but then fades out the game or makes poor defensive decisions. Hope he develops over time as he matures and becomes an 80 minute test match player.
Agree. I don't think he should be in the 23 right now. He isn't fit enough for International rugby and he we need to really work out how to use him at his best when he does play. Making a couple of big carries and doing little else for 30 minutes isn't enough. If he had Earl or Curry like workrate he'd be a exceptional player. Maybe time to give T Hill CCS bench spot?
Do not understand swapping out 9 & 10 at the same time… worse moving Marcus to 15, he’s not a natural full back and it showed, they lost structure then,,, and the game.
Inconsistent performance from both sides. Great win for us, but we need to tighten things up. There are too many mistakes, handling errors Etc. Totally agree with your annalise re Tom Currie. He had a great game.
The tight five were 7.5 to 8. The loosies combo didn't work. The back 3 are not of international class. Same old story England. Sorry Tim, smiths missed tackle, cost a try.
Hey Tim- thanks for all the reviews and so fast - very good, I'm not getting the relevance of players ratings, England or the Ireland ones you gave, the range is 6..5 to -8.5 so why 0-10 and , I've not added it up but seems England and Ireland are same if totaled, so doesnt reflect the game maybe. So whats the point - does it accumulate, is it about slection for next game against another player option? How are we finding it useful without maybe a history average per player? Or total/team? Dont become a statistician but whats it mean?
Ok - sorry - 5-8.5 , would be good if you tallied it - hard with minutes on field, I know but a rought tally for each team with the numbers per player. , which when I think about it would be impossible relate from game to game... ok - I dont have an answer to how to do. Ireland get 5 points from a possible 5 - ohh wait ... Great channel, thans mate, great rugby and a great win for Ireland.
I know it’s a risk but next week I’d play Marcus at 15. Steward could he really badly exposed by Bielle-Biarrey and Attissogbe. They are absolutely rapid but also have that ability to turn on a sixpence, something Steward is notoriously not exactly the greatest at.
Do you remember last years 6 Nations? It was the one with Marcus Smith at FB where it was clear to most that he should never be played at FB against a decent team as he had an absolute mare ... Steward isn't the answer but neither is replacing him with another player who isn't good enough in that position. Both Freeman and Roebuck have played there and Id suggest are better options.
@ mate I’m just envisioning Steward being the last man in defence and getting his ankles broken by Attissogbe or LBB. Marcus is the only other alternative option. Freeman potentially but he’s only ever played 15 for England vs the Barbarians.
Had a thought as well, is Marcus a better 23rd man than 10? If we look at Ireland the rookie started the experience came on and finished the game. Finn has a string carrying game, he broke the line multiple times so we don't lose that entirely. Marcus covers 15 and 10 to a high standard and could arguably be even better at the end of a game against a tired opponent.
Good analysis. I didn't see any leadership on the pitch, trying to change things when the second half was going away. Is this a deficiency in the players or a facet of being over coached? And as you say, no impact off the bench.
Fascinating that you gave the back row such high ratings but it didn’t work as a collective. Compare Doris for 80 minutes as a player with any of the ones you have rated with 7s and 8s. He would have to be rated an 11. A proper test match animal. England have to go big and heavy for the France game. That means a Willis, Cunningham South, Curry starting three. I’m not convinced by Freeman, sorry. He will be skinned by the French and has plenty of chances to prove himself. So Roebuck to come in for him. Murley to stay because one game is not enough to judge and surely he can’t freeze again (I hope). M Smith has to play fly half for 80. Expose him at full back and he will be steam rollered. And please please keep Randall away from international rugby. He looks out of place, slight and awkward and Spencer or Qwirk are better players.
I thought Doris had one of his quieter games (which still means he was very good, his standards are so high). Big interventions when they matter though. Thought JvdF was pick of Irish forwards....again!
I disagree about Tom Willis, thought he scrapped well at the breakdown, made ground with every carry and was a good part of England's resurgence at the very end, albeit too late. I thought Baxter needed to come on earlier too, Genge was gassed and the couple of scrums Baxter did get in he was on top.
Finn Smith too actually, thought he looked calm and collected, couple of nice half breaks, good distance on his kicking from hand which finally started to get us territory. I don't think the problems were with the bench, they were earlier in the second half (although agree that CCS was too keen and Randall poor).
Is it always right to make all the replacements after 60 minutes? I know Eddie Jones seemed to make it mandatory, but is it always right from now on? Surely a fit player ought to be able to play a full game.
The amount of people who said Slade and T. Curry shouldn't ever be in an england jersey again who were eating their words yesterday. Both of them were amazing yesterday.
Crazy how genge is so highly rated, gets rated higher than the man opposite him on scrum yet he gave away a penalty at nearly ever scrum? Looks the part, seems to be a really likeable guy and has nice feet for a prop but never seems to do much imo 🇮🇪
Bring Ojomoh or another 12 in, one of Slades better games but doesn't offer enough anymore. Missed too many of his plays which just killed the attack for me, one good grubber a game isn't enough. Murley had a howler. Maybe Finn at 10 and Smith at 15 to start then Steward on the bench, won't be as much of a liability when the opponent has more tired players, Smith wouldn't have got stepped as last defender and might have attempted a tackle rather than flapping at wind as Steward does all too often. Can't keep being plucky losers in a professional game
Mainly agree with your ratings - I'd probably drop Earl to a 6 and boost Lawrence to an 8 but these are minor quibbles. I understand why Borthwick picked 3 7s against Ireland but I feel we need a more balanced back row against France. I'd be tempted by Hill/Chessum at 6, Tom Willis at 8 (he needs a full game to see what he can do) and a Curry at 7 with the other on the bench. I hope Murley keeps his spot, he misjudged the ball going over his head for the first mistake he made and I think that fried his brain resulting in the howler when he didn't just fall on the ball for the second mistake. I think Freeman's a fantastic player who does a lot of things right but I do wonder whether he's got the top end pace for an international winger - he reminds me a bit in that way of Mark Cueto. I don't really like a 6 - 2 split on the bench and it seems a bit pointless if you're going to play your loose head for 70+ minutes.
Agree a lot with that. Though the backline is still a collective issue. Dropping Murley feels harsh. I’d consider Roebuck for Freeman. Steward unfortunately locked in as there are no mega obvious replacements. Prop replacement a shambles. Surprised that wasn’t covered. Giving bench props 10 mins is pointless. May as well have Asher on the bench. He’s not quite ready but his ceiling is comfortably higher than Heyes and Stuart. If you want bench impact Rodd has to be on the bench too. Don’t know if Quirke is fit, if not Spencer offers more control. Randall clearly not up to it at this level as he’s shown time and time again.
Falling into the default mindset about the Bench. This is Rassie's genius. Bench is, if anything better, than starters... Horses for courses. Folks continue to think of Starters & Bench as being A & B. Boks? A & A...or A+...
Tim, I think you’re being overly generous here. 7th lose in 9. Good defensively in the 1st half but Ireland made a lot of errors that they eliminated in 2nd half. We offer next to nothing in attack. Borthwick isn’t the man.
I understand that rugby at the highest level has to be played on the edge of the rules, but I dont think you want your captain to be the one bending them, i think thats what differentiated ireland and england in the refs eyes
@fraserposford144 no. Not really, he broke the rules of a line out, you aren't allowed to approach the other players in the lift never mind make any contact
England just kick to much away, they shift the advantage back to the opposition, last year they created more running lines......kicking for the sake of kicking will not win you anything, Irish were class so fair play to them.
Borthwick makes very untimely substitutions. W/Cup v South Africa taking off the front row just when they were carrying the team's momentum. Nov series bringing on Ford when he didn't need to. Saturday replacing Earl - why?
For me they not fit enough to play how they want to plus they are trying to play as kick to compete game but just don't have the skill set not the chasers but the kicks weren't on the money. Then too many times we go to the boot in attack and again miss to many opportunities as not clinical enough. And defence still too many gaps I think when blowing. Close but not good enough tonight.
you look through this England team and there are still far too many players that are bang average with the odd decent moment. What did Cowan-Dickie and Will Stuart bring to the pack? And how can we not have Opoku-Fordjour on the bench?? Our future front row is Fagosbon, Tuipulotu, Opoku-Fjordjour... the sooner we blood them the better. Ben Earl is not a #8 and one line break doesn't make him one. Slade is invisible so much of the time and is not any sort of leader in that team. Freeman is not quick enough to be a winger these days, he should really concentrate on making midfield his position where his size and pace would make him dangerous in the centre of the field. Steward at fullback offered nothing in attack, can't remember him beating an Irish man in attack once in the game. And his defence one-on-one has been embarassing on multiple occassions. Marcus Smith... yes there are some great bits but it's always him and Slade responsible for going back to negative and aimless kicking rugby and not having the intelligence to see it's not working and changing it. Not a surprise to me that we scored 2 tries when we had Fin Smith there. There was one moment in particular that summed him up for me... a horrible loose ball got thrown to him near halfway line. There was no panic, no rushed kick, no attempted hero play. He simply took a moment to assess his options (despite Ireland defence rushing at him), flung a peach of a miss pass out wide to Slade and suddenly we're on the attack (which obviously didn't go anywhere because it was Slade. I think it was 2018 the last time he ran past a defender..) If Borthwick refuses to change Marcus, perhaps Fin should be at 12 as he's a solid defender too and has far more to his game than Slade does. And our back 3 needs some magic... Lowe won the game for Ireland, Darcy Graham won the game for Scotland. Let's not even mention the French wingers! Who in that England back 3 is going to regularly create that sort of moment? Randall is truly AWFUL. What is the point on bringing him on to box kick when he's clearly terrible at it? Please please please let us see Raffi Quirke on the bench against France.
England needs to change their stance on players playing abroad. Smith is brilliant, but Farrell, Willis, Lawes and Arundell could have made a hell of a difference today. (Imagine Earl, Willis and Lawes starting, and T. Curry coming off the bench. Woof).
Arundel has been garbage in France and is nowhere close to any of the top 4 England wing options. Farrell has had a nightmare season with injuries and having to play with the bosses son, a Championship level player, at 12 outside him and looks broken. Lawes is playing well but time looks to have caught up with him. Willis is playing brilliantly in an amazing Toulouse team but is the only player I feel might make a difference and then would it be significantly above what T Curry offered? Funnily enough both Vunipolae are having exceptional seasons and yet I think it's more about French rugby suiting them now rather than that they've suddenly improved massively. Rolling subs helps too!
I thought both Currie brothers had great games but thought Ben should have had a higher rating despite Toms try. Big selection issue for SB as the lineout needs a 3rd jumper
I was VERY critical of the selection of Tom Curry and of Henry Slade - but I have to concede, both had their best games in a long time!!
Well done to both.
@@mikegray8776 Love Island has finished so Sladey boy can give rugby 100% of his attention now 😅
Slade ?? What did he achieve attacking-wise ??
@ Well he assisted the first try with a gorgeous grubber and his silky hands nearly put us away for another 😊
I've noticed that English club teams,as a general unit,tend to blowout around the 55-60minute mark ,in euro cup games. England were similar,yesterday. Are the players overloaded in the English prem? I think it might be a contributing factor. England were more than a match for us up to that point.
As an Irish man,have to admit,the Curry brothers were sensational yesterday . They gave everything they had,and more.
Lawrence best game for england imo nassive hits great lines and offloads
Agree was excellent today
He was brilliant and had improved so much over the past year, really exciting player now and so physical 🔥
Ben Earl roaring,screeching and gumshield hanging from his mouth totally overrated by England fans
@@neillscannell9278 watch the game dont watch his mouth.
@@neillscannell9278 englands best player last 6 nations , plays 7 for his club though
I like Freddie Stewart love a full back who dominates the air but if I was an England fan I'd be getting worried about the list of highlight reels for other players he's on, mostly making him look silly with steps it seems to grow every few weeks
He turns like a tank unfortunately.
@@onlookervb he offers nothing other than high ball catching. He’d be slow for a forward
You're bang on with this. I'm Irish and I love seeing his name on a team sheet
Milk turns quicker than Steward
@Daniboi971 I used to say he was slow, too. But, to be fair, his running and attacking has really improved. Overall, he's a better player now than when everyone thought he was God's gift and was locked-in for 10 yrs.
Irish fan.. England don’t kick so much. You have the skill and players to do a lot more positives. Great win for Ireland.
They always will under Borthwick. No ambition.
@@speak_your_truth. It's been going on for YEARS. So frustrating to watch. And I think the points made here about selling ourselves short in the lineout are spot on.
From an irish fan, England have destructive ball carriers, demonstrated again today in first 20 minutes. So their commitment to kicking away attacking ball - led by Smith and Slade - is so strange to watch. They'll do the same thing against Scotland, Italy etc. Feel like this must be contributing to the continued sense that this team is underperforming with the talent they have.
It's a modern tactic. South Africa and some others have proved that the team with the lowest possession often wins with a good defence and clinical opportunitistic finishing.
What ya think of them apples 😂😂
Totally agree. They look great when they run it but usually choose to kick. Case in point when Steward fielded an Irish kick he ran it back only for Smith to kick it back to Ireland on the next phase. Made no sense. They looked better ball in hand first ten and last ten.
@ That's a dated stat. Eddie Jones banged on about it. The top four teams in the world all have diametrically opposed game plans. England kicked more than all of them in the 2023 RWC.
Some attacking kicking is a necessity but when England can win gainline (an area Ireland can struggle sometimes), I believe they lose a lot of momentum and cough up opportunities for points.
Also if the above logic followed, they'd want to be very low on defensive penalties, but that's never been a strength for this modern England team.
In my opinion.
No ambition.
@@bybdy maybe the rule changes of last year might have changed all that.
If IF we Ireland can beat Scotland next week then it's the French maestros the week after.
I think they will beat us but it should be an absolute corker of a match.
And possibly getting beat by rugby of the calibre of Duponts rugby will feel less crushing as you reflect on how exactly did he do that.
Dupont is a force an exception to any rule he is wonderful.
Interesting comment about England being out on their feet. I reckon they put in so much into properly competing against a world class side, their knackeredness was surely inevitable. The Irish are total beasts...and the French will also be one hell of a challenge- they looked massive against Wales last night!
@@starmersbarber it’s our line speed as well. It’s knackering playing like that
@danniboi971 - Fair assessment that the rush defence on every occasion is going to tire the team and surely the coaching staff know this, BUT then there has to be either fitness or strategy changes to counter the issue!!
In the last ¼ most of the players were knackered, including the Irish, but the Irish were better at managing it.
Ireland bench also outplayed England's bench.
Agree. England need to work on their fitness
@@glentweedie602 you noticed how many coaches we go through? The current D coach is a second division french league coach….
Steward is a supertanker, good at one thing but turning circle of half a mile.
We seem to be the only team in the 6 nations still obsessed with this constant kicking game ala Eddie jones. It was clear early on Ireland were winning most of the knockdowns, and they are too good a side to give them back possession constantly, especially when you see they are starting to get round the blitz etc. It’s makes our rugby so painful to watch. Ironically the tries we scored came when we didn’t kick it and actually looked dangerous running it
There's nothing wrong with good kicking. What kills teams is bad kicking. We kicked badly - you need to learn the difference. The Red Roses are world no.1 and everyone emjoys their matches - they kick the most out of all women's teams.
I love ben earl and obviously think he’s great but I think he might be even better as an impact sub off the bench against tired legs, give tom willis the starting number 8 jersey because then he can really get into the game from the off and show his premiership form
@@jamzy24 Horses for courses.
I see Willis getting a start soon with CCS starting. Underhill back in and Chessum coming back up to form, we have options.
Both Currys impressed me with their activity today busy everywhere.
Mitchell's kicking off ruck was quality today but made lot of mistakes in defense. I still think Furbank is your best 15 when fit I think he has much better back field awareness and defense positioning.
I didn’t rate Mitchell today, few bad decisions and flaping around at Lowe’s man bun was unforgivable
@@InsanelyIrish missed furbank and manni big time.
Agree except we're wedded to this dumb idea that we play Marcus Smith with Mitchell and Furbank and then bring Fin Smith on late and at a stage where we sub Micthell and Furbank and move Marcus Smith to FB. It's just such an obvious way to increase team cohesion to reverse that.
I’m very happy for Murley. And I hope he is given time to grow at this level. Everytime he got the ball he made metres, worked so hard in making sure we had good ball. And his try and assist were great; equally his mistakes were big but few. His numbers are comparable to LBB from France in terms of metres carried, tackles and beat three defenders compared to LBB’s 5.
Our organisation cost us that game, not mistakes. Marcus Smith moving to fullback wasn’t what the game needed, Randall wasn’t either. What’s the point of tactical flexibility if your changes were pre determined?
This is a joke right? Hopefully we don’t see murley in an England shirt again
@ Rugby is a team game, no one on the England side covered themselves in glory. Yes Murley made mistakes, but they’re clearly down to nerves. And when he got the ball he made metres, scored a try, and assisted one off of Lawrence’s back.
So no I’m not making a joke, it was a good performance underneath the media microscope; but he can and will get better, having watched him at Quins over the last 3 years I know he’s capable of being better
I agree that the Twindaloos were superb. It takes quite some performance to get amongst these irish boys.
Scotland fan here. Just an observation, but is England's size of player pool and number of clubs in the Gallagher perhaps muddying the waters, and causing a lack of cohesion in the team? I ask because the French team is largely comprised of Toulouse and UBB players, Scotland from its two pro sides and Ireland from 3 of the 4 Provinces (only 1 Ulster player in R1) Can England really expect to gel as a team in the brief window before the 6N, given their players are drawn from so many clubs? No agenda, just wondering if there is an issue with selecting individuals instead of proven club combinations ...?
when every player was from saracens pretty much, england were winning the 6 nations easily and making wc finals, so that point does make sense
Totally agree, well
Made observation
Steve hates picking players that don’t or haven’t played for sarries or tigers and god forbid he ever makes a captain out of a quins or west country player
it’s more a case we just don’t have very good players in key positions. For example our centres are the worst of any top 10 nation.
China has a bigger player pool
!!
What went wrong for England?
1) Most starters visibly tired after 55 mins
2) NO bench players ADDED anything, with the sole exception of Willis - who tried really hard.
3) Nightmare shifts from Murley & Mitchell defensively. Both were v good offensively.
4) Borthwick has ZERO attacking strategy - he relies on Marcus totally
5) Lineouts were horrible. LCD is a liability with consistent inaccuracy.
6) Steward is the world’s easiest FB to ‘step’, and provides little attack-wise
Agree on murley was absolutely shocking . Think the ref had a hand in changing the momentum with very marginal calls . The rest were not so bad and looked very good for periods of the game .
LCD is an upgrade on Jamie George 100%. Far more physical and dynamic, plus only really had the one errant throw.
Firm disagree with Murley. Outside of those two howlers over the dead ball line, he was excellent. Made a lot of tackles and added to the England attack.
@@fraserposford144 nah his defensive positioning was hard to watch. Not up to scratch
@@fraserposford144 I think I said, he was jittery defensively but had a good game going forward.
Both of which I stand by - and nothing there that PROPER COACHING could not put right.
But -since Fat Bill Sweeney and the blazers, seem utterly unconcerned - that’s clearly not going to happen, and Borewick will probably bin Murley …. which is the wrong call, whilst both Feyi and Ibitoye are crocked.
Just in from the game, was worried at half time, thought Englands blitz defence worked very well but they tired noticeably after 50 minutes. The losing bonus point could be very important at the end.
Agree on both counts
As an I.F. I'm glad we have England out of the way so early in the 6N, England are only going to get better!
Agree totally
Don’t agree there chum. England are not hitting the rite notes in any order. Just not good enough. Obviously the players are giving more than 100% have coming off early but not sense of being dangerous to play against. I would be rubbing my hands to play them were I an internationally talented player. I’m not.
England might get better, but I think Ireland will also get better, so, honestly, I don't think it matters at all when we play England in the schedule.
Based on what ?? There's no evidence for that in yesterdays, or last years performances
One phase and kick regardless of position on field is killing England's attack, out of all those kicks we had one that resulted in a try. We have so much talent and its getting wasted with miss poor management. Wigglesworth without a doubt is the worst attacking coach I've ever seen and it makes sense since all he did was kick the ball away when he played. A good example was France yesterday creating phases and space to kick into rather than allowing defence to set. The last 5-10mins England kept ball in hand we need to do that more.
What I love about the Ben Curry performance is that it was in front of Eddie Jones.
What redemption and a massive middle finger.
As an England fan I've been in a slump of not caring about the result but just wanting a good game to watch. I thought it was. Some interesting calls but that's the game. Too many penalties and itoje being part of that doesn't help as him captain.
Let's not start a blame game as us Kiwis are good at.
Itogy is too immature to be captain.
Harsh on Maro. That line out penalty was really brutal and unfair.
We really missed Feyi-Waboso - he is a very young guy who has excellent positional and arial skills, unlike Murley, who was simply exposed by Ireland, who targeted him successfully. He shouldn’t play for England again until he proves he has sorted his issues with kicks. I agree Randall isn’t up to the standard and I think Spencer should have started anyway. He is physically more powerful aswell. I would love to see Quirk fit and back playing for England. Also Freeman isn’t quite a winger for me - he’s too slow - he’d be better at outside centre. Steward also is too weak in defence. The pack did ok, but need to give away fewer penalties, though England were unlucky at crucial moments in this game. It’s in the backs where England have more issues - they need Feyi-Waboso and Fairbanks back to get them up to last year’s level. I also prefer Sleighthome to Murley, though I understand he’s injured. Ireland were the better team, but England have potential still.
The same Cadan Marley that England fans have been screaming for for years? One game against arguably the best team in the NH, and you just want to drop him?
I might have missed this but I always think it's helpful to refer to what your rating scale is.
eg for me 5 is a totally balanced performance. Contributed but not overall a huge plus or minus. 6 would be starting to make an overall positive performance. 10 would be a performance that we'll be speaking about in a years time and 9 a match-defining one.
Normally the person I feel was an 8 is the MotM.
Anything below 3 asks questions about whether that person should have been picked OR they made one or more very significant mistakes. Match losing in the same way as a 9 is acknowledgement of match defining.
I also like to mark against a basic understanding of the quality of the opposition.
So a 9 against the best French team would maybe be a 7 against a weak Welsh one with essentially the same performance.
Strongly disagree on the Marcus Smith front, he was incredibly quiet in the 2nd half until Fin came on and he went to fullback. Scored two tries in that configuration didnt we?
Ireland let their foot off the gas once the game was won
The 2 late tries are irrelevant , if the game was in the balance, it's unlikely Ireland would have been so lackse.
Tom Curry: Excellent. Himself reminds me of the bane of seeing and hearing Lewis Moody's name being on an English team announcement. Fierce, Brave, Ruthless, "Loopycidal".
I’ve never seen a call like the Itoje line out penalty. It was bizarre, even in football that would be deemed a complete farce, still struggling to see on what planet that is worth a penalty.
Yes I’m Irish, and it was exactly that, a complete farce; and given the timing, a key turning point in the match. If I was English I’d be so pssed at that. It is what it is & one has to pick oneself up .. Eng Fra will be close based on what I saw today
@@danielgriffin9431
It was not a turning point, ffs!
England's defensive woes cost them the game and silly basic errors. Not one isolated call. 😢
@@nepiahemopo1702 not a turning point? England went from an attacking situation to a kicked penalty and you don't class that as a turning point!
@denniswaites5593 No, I don't. You're implying that a single call lost the game for England, which clutches at straws mate. England where out played simple.
@@nepiahemopo1702thats not true . The games momentum especially at the highest levels is from the whistle from the ref .
England are playing well but they have a problem I haven't seen people talking about. Rugby is inevitably a game of highs and lows and England can capitalise on their highs, but just can't minimise their lows. They need to devise and strategy (but most importantly grit) to pull themselves out of a momentum slump and turn the game around, not just wait for the other team to lose their momentum naturally.
Fantastic assessments as always Tim. One suggestion re player ratings: in a game of two very different halves it might be more insightful to rate per half and then total.
Harry Randall just isn’t an international quality 9. His skill set isn’t good enough to make up for his lack of size. Tough for England because no one is really putting their hand up behind Mitchell, but Randall just isn’t it…
raffi quirke is probably closest to mitchell, spencer as well
I agree Randall isn’t good enough
@@Athorner.53 Spencer has been good for sure, but obviously already being 32 and lacking international experience, I can see why they don’t seem to trust him.
Quirke could be the answer if he can stay fit….
@@Athorner.53 agree is he stayed fit would have 30 caps by now.
@@blueboy1788 apparently borthwick doesn't rate him, hes just been taken out of the 36 man squad
Without wishing to upset England supporters, I really don't get Marcus Smith at all. He's clearly got talent but other than in occasional flashes, I find his game at international level underwhelming. IMO he's more of a show pony. He's still reasonably young and has time to improve but he really needs to focus on doing what is best for his team, especially if he wants a place in the Lions squad.
Irish fan . Imo as good as their kicking was , i felt their was too much kicking . Imo curry was man of the match . Fair play England, can see your improvements
As an Ireland fan curry was man of the match
@@shanemcdonagh1979 ❤️
Englands defence is what kept them in the game 😊
The failings were in attack. Persisted with kicks and lost possession and then exhausted by counterattack.
Unfair to rate players when they play a doomed strategy. A physically exhausting strategy of kicking and chasing and highline defence leaves England exposed to strong attacking sides in second half / last quarter. Problem compounded by playing 3 no.7s and consequent lineout failings. Srategy of kick chase yielded little. The result is a team with exhausted defence and not scoring enough points to win. Progress is needed in strategy and coaching not from the valiant players.
England destroyed by 3 kiwis, Lowe, Gibson park, and the ref 🇳🇿
Four kiwis- Aki
Reading the comments, I find many of them ridiculous. The often stated 'fact' that England should be world beaters because of player depth is a myth. The premiership is teetering on the edge of financial oblivion. Compared to France and Ireland there is no money to create depth in the premiership teams. This has a predictable knock on effect for England. The best players are overworked, struggle to stay fresh and always carrying injuries. This is a structural problem and, while it remains true, England will continue to struggle.
Love this channel and the analysis you provide, on the dropping Murley point I’d put him on the bench that may be harsh but he’s been exposed under pressure. I’m really uncertain about Randall he’s had enough chances for me when will we see Quirke that lads electric
Big fan of the channel, Tim. Respectfully, i think you've overlooked LCD's defensive effort. We were backs against the wall a few times in the first half and ireland came away with nothing.
I’m so happy that the curry’s made a lot of people surprised of them playing together but being a sale fan watching them every week this is just a normal performance from them and I hope that it’s made all those people in the comments realise how good they are! Despite the result I think it was a good performance by England, attacking wise we didn’t offer too much in the second half and it didn’t help there were a few calls that didn’t fall our way but the team did alright few things to improve of course.
I agree with most of your marks, I didnt expect England to play as well as they did in the First half, Itoje got on the wrong side of the Ref and some media streams say he stamped on an Irish player.
TBH if Murley starts against France, they will destroy him.
Those mistakes have put a real target on his back.
Borthwick won't drop him to prove a point. Stubborn coach
murley probably needs to start though, any other winger will be outpaced too easily, Borthwick might bring in Radwan now he plays for his favourite club
A woman at the Test asked me do I think Leinster could actually beat England and she was Irish, I said yes I do believe they could. But she also thought that England were much fitter than Ireland and Ireland would be thrashed at half time, She in her ignorance had no idea that the Irish team was 98% Leinster. Maro Itoje questioned before the test, how hard it would be to face a Leinster dominant team, because cohesion is a huge benefit as England use to do when they were Saracen dominant.
Leinster would beat Ireland most likely.
Agree.
I don't think that's a big call in a similar way prime Saracens could probably have beaten most of the 6 Nations teams you could have fielded against them.
The value of familiarity of game plan and personnel that you get from a club team that plays together (which lets not forget is what teams like Ireland, Scotland and Italy are to a large part) is invaluable.
It's why having a club lineout spine 2, caller, jumper is valuable. Or why you'd play a club 9 and 10 (and 15) together if you could ... well you would if you were a semi competent coach.
I would change murley for Sleightholme start Martin chessum and Willis dont Put smith at full back .Steward apart from sidestep overlaps for Tigers make him do same at international level.On yhe hour some players ran out of gas .Slade and Lawrence worked for once need more offloads .
To defend Fin Smith, Ireland had gained momentum way before Fin came on, he came on with 16 mins to go and then Marcus moved to full back, by that time Ireland had scored 3 tries. Personally I think England would play better with Fin starting, but I can understand why that will not happen soon.
Regarding Murley,, he did make some howlers, I never heard why was Sleighthome dropped?
england did score more tries with f smith at 10 than m smith at 10
Sleightholme not really dropped. Did his hamstring a few weeks ago
Why can you understand why it will not happen soon?
Marcus Smith is doing a terrible job of getting the best out of the players around him which for me is the primary job of the 10. He had a genuinely poor game yesterday for all bar the first 20 and showed again that he's not a FB.
Were building a team around an individual and it's clearly not working. That his competition already plays with up to half of the backs likely to start if all are fit should make picking him a no-brainer.
Ben Spencer has been pretty hard done by
Hey, tim, love the video will you be doing one for ireland
Finn Smith at 10. I'll die on this hill. He should be playing with his club partner Mitchell. We are not winning games with Borthwick and Marcus together.
I'll be there with you. Mitchell, F Smith and Furbank together gives the England backs their best chance of playing in a team sport and being more than the sum of their parts or you know we could waste another 30 caps on the Marcus Smith show, like the Muppet Show but with less talent.
Hi Tim, love your vids mate and wishing you every success. I comment mostly only on your you tube videos of all the content creators on RUclips I watch. I am eager to see your videos and squidge. I am big into heuristics and biases and have made similar comments on some of your videos , mainly on ref decision making and ref calls. I looked at this video last night and watched your Irish player rating this morning, went back to watch this video to check you weren’t biased as an English fan, not to be a dick but to point out any potential bias. I was happy to find your scoring of both teams was consistent. I happily found it was. Well done Tim! ps also I hope you get to Australia for the British and Lions tour. Is there any other way for your followers to sponsor you? Pss. I watch two cents for the southern hemisphere view. Pss. Your assessment of the impact of the bench was spot on. England are tracking nicely. Johnny Wilkinson made some great points in post match commentary about England, that they need to be rock solid and consistent on the basics/defence and the creativity will come. BOD also made a similar point in that England need to become more of an 80minute team. From an Irish and Munsterman.
Steward is great BUT his lack of speed when turning worries me. Murley will learn from those mistakes. Game management is the biggest worry, specially in the second half.
to me lawrence deserves a 9. Lots of big tackles from him
I said England's discipline would let them down and it really did! They were lucky to only have one man in the bin in my opinion! England's backrow was far better than ours but Jack Conan was outstanding off the bench! As was Jack Crowley and Thomas Clarkson, but Dan Sheehan is well and truly back baby! As physical as England were, Ireland were fitter and wore England down. Andrew Porter and Tadhg Beirne were absolutely outstanding! JGP deserved man of the match though!! Slowing down CCS, cover tackle on Slade and a try! Our kiwis stepped up big time!! Given how good England were, Ireland had to be brilliant to beat them and they absolutely were!! Great opening round of the 6 nations!! Feel Crowley was better than Prendergast but fairplay to Prendergast! I was nervous watching so can only imagine how nervous he was
I really like that.
Perhaps overly lyrical. England were good in the first half but the Irish half time two was brilliant. Thought P’ghast struggled a little and nerves got the better of his Kicks. Crowley played brilliantly when he came in but Smith had already moved to 15 and the replacement England back row came up short I thought. Gutted to be honest.
Well played Ireland……
@owenfarmer4197 great game of rugby!! England played really well but I do feel if their discipline was better they would've won that game! But an absolutely phenomenal Irish performance it has to be said! Glad you liked it!🤝👌
Tom Curry was an absolute warrior yesterday. His brother not far behind.
Recall when England used to run from fullback:- Josh Lewsey, Jason Robinson, Mike Brown.
That seemed to be a good idea at the time. New Zealand play it very well. Do you think we could reinvent it?
We can all recall the great fullbacks from the history of the development of the game, starting back in the 70’s, let’s reinvent it and run the ball back at the opposition, linking in with back row and wingers.
Not fit enough, maybe? We only manage 60 minutes at the moment before we collapse mentally and physically.
@ They seem to spend their lives in match play situations, getting fit and eating mountains of food. They should be fit. It’s their job to be fit.
@expressoevangelism80 Could be the Gallagher Premiership. The pace, hits and size in Top 14 is much greater. The French teams are tearing up the Champions Cup. We have to level up, but we can't attract similar talent and therefore don't have a marker to compete against. Not saying we are bad, just not as competitive as we are stuck in the equivalent of a rugby echo chamber. Thoughts?
I'm French (well actually half English & French) and I think if England has a great start, taking the lead quickly, it will be very difficult for France. England will focus on Jalibert's weak defense and aim at Ramos with up & unders. In two years England has really improved and playing home is very important.
What’s with the Freddie Krueger jumper Tim ?
The curry’s were brilliant.
Really think Roebuck deserves a start. He’s so good in the air but I feel it’d be really unfair to Murley and would probably destroy his confidence if he were to be dropped. Also would pick Spenser over Randall on the bench. Personally think he’s more reliable and has a brilliant box kick.
Move Marcus Smith and Murley onto the bench. That's where they should be and it would mean a Quins connection when they came on.
@ who starts at 10 then, Ford or Fin Smith?
Hard working man
Cadan Murley - 3. If he can't remember basic laws in an international match, why is he there? Sleightholme did nothing wrong and was dropped. Murley should be the next Hassell-Collins
Absolute shocker, hopefully we don’t see him again
Can we just accept that Genge is not a scrummaging prop…
He seems better this season. Decent in November, and ok today. I will scrummaging isn't his best attribute though..100%
Been saying that for a while. He does some good things in the loose but is not good at his day job. Also opposition teams target him as his tackling around the fringes is horrible. Decent player but a little overrated.
@@kevinpillay6103 He was asleep at ruck guard for a break that lead to the try. Same thing happened twice in the AIs. Some players are just very slow to learn.
Ditto chopsing away to his opposite number and the referee rather than focusing on his actual scrummaging. You'd think that since being schooled by Fasogbon he's have smartened up but no.
@@EggchasersRugby Throwing out a hypothetical…
We need a mutant to either start or replace him. Genge off the bench, I think helps the impact you’re looking for from a sub - even use him like Eddie did in France (Kick Return option)
Pretty much agree. Thought it was a great test match and the Irish boys I watched with were far more positive about our performance than it seems English fans were.....why is that? I would however make a few more changes for next week I'd start Willis alongside Chessum and TC (if fit seemed he was carrying that hip at the end) just for extra power against the French mountains....
Randall is lucky to get a 5
Cunningham-South is so frustrating to watch sometimes. Unbelievable on occasion and looks world class at points but then fades out the game or makes poor defensive decisions. Hope he develops over time as he matures and becomes an 80 minute test match player.
Agree. I don't think he should be in the 23 right now.
He isn't fit enough for International rugby and he we need to really work out how to use him at his best when he does play. Making a couple of big carries and doing little else for 30 minutes isn't enough. If he had Earl or Curry like workrate he'd be a exceptional player. Maybe time to give T Hill CCS bench spot?
Do not understand swapping out 9 & 10 at the same time… worse moving Marcus to 15, he’s not a natural full back and it showed, they lost structure then,,, and the game.
Tim you should do rating for scrum, backline, breakdowns, lineouts, scrums etc.. that would be interesting
agreed Chessum for lineout and carries should start
J'aurais apprécié venir à Twick, ca va être un gros match
What's happened to Sleighthome? Is he injured? I thought he did pretty well when picked.
The backrow selection shows , not losing was the priority ,
Inconsistent performance from both sides. Great win for us, but we need to tighten things up. There are too many mistakes, handling errors Etc. Totally agree with your annalise re Tom Currie. He had a great game.
The tight five were 7.5 to 8. The loosies combo didn't work. The back 3 are not of international class. Same old story England. Sorry Tim, smiths missed tackle, cost a try.
Harry Randall was an O. This guy needs to go back to first 15 rugby.
Hey Tim- thanks for all the reviews and so fast - very good, I'm not getting the relevance of players ratings, England or the Ireland ones you gave, the range is 6..5 to -8.5 so why 0-10 and , I've not added it up but seems England and Ireland are same if totaled, so doesnt reflect the game maybe. So whats the point - does it accumulate, is it about slection for next game against another player option? How are we finding it useful without maybe a history average per player? Or total/team? Dont become a statistician but whats it mean?
Ok - sorry - 5-8.5 , would be good if you tallied it - hard with minutes on field, I know but a rought tally for each team with the numbers per player. , which when I think about it would be impossible relate from game to game... ok - I dont have an answer to how to do. Ireland get 5 points from a possible 5 - ohh wait ... Great channel, thans mate, great rugby and a great win for Ireland.
I know it’s a risk but next week I’d play Marcus at 15. Steward could he really badly exposed by Bielle-Biarrey and Attissogbe. They are absolutely rapid but also have that ability to turn on a sixpence, something Steward is notoriously not exactly the greatest at.
Do you remember last years 6 Nations? It was the one with Marcus Smith at FB where it was clear to most that he should never be played at FB against a decent team as he had an absolute mare ... Steward isn't the answer but neither is replacing him with another player who isn't good enough in that position. Both Freeman and Roebuck have played there and Id suggest are better options.
@ mate I’m just envisioning Steward being the last man in defence and getting his ankles broken by Attissogbe or LBB. Marcus is the only other alternative option. Freeman potentially but he’s only ever played 15 for England vs the Barbarians.
Had a thought as well, is Marcus a better 23rd man than 10? If we look at Ireland the rookie started the experience came on and finished the game. Finn has a string carrying game, he broke the line multiple times so we don't lose that entirely. Marcus covers 15 and 10 to a high standard and could arguably be even better at the end of a game against a tired opponent.
Good analysis. I didn't see any leadership on the pitch, trying to change things when the second half was going away. Is this a deficiency in the players or a facet of being over coached? And as you say, no impact off the bench.
Fascinating that you gave the back row such high ratings but it didn’t work as a collective. Compare Doris for 80 minutes as a player with any of the ones you have rated with 7s and 8s.
He would have to be rated an 11. A proper test match animal.
England have to go big and heavy for the France game. That means a Willis, Cunningham South, Curry starting three.
I’m not convinced by Freeman, sorry. He will be skinned by the French and has plenty of chances to prove himself.
So Roebuck to come in for him. Murley to stay because one game is not enough to judge and surely he can’t freeze again (I hope). M Smith has to play fly half for 80. Expose him at full back and he will be steam rollered.
And please please keep Randall away from international rugby. He looks out of place, slight and awkward and Spencer or Qwirk are better players.
I thought Doris had one of his quieter games (which still means he was very good, his standards are so high). Big interventions when they matter though. Thought JvdF was pick of Irish forwards....again!
I think they should have started Sleighthome for Ireland/France/Scotland and tactically blooded Murley against Azzuri and Wales
Is he fit? I thought he still had a knock.
@ Oh damn, you may be right there. I hadn’t heard anything but that would make sense👍
I disagree about Tom Willis, thought he scrapped well at the breakdown, made ground with every carry and was a good part of England's resurgence at the very end, albeit too late.
I thought Baxter needed to come on earlier too, Genge was gassed and the couple of scrums Baxter did get in he was on top.
Finn Smith too actually, thought he looked calm and collected, couple of nice half breaks, good distance on his kicking from hand which finally started to get us territory.
I don't think the problems were with the bench, they were earlier in the second half (although agree that CCS was too keen and Randall poor).
Is it always right to make all the replacements after 60 minutes? I know Eddie Jones seemed to make it mandatory, but is it always right from now on? Surely a fit player ought to be able to play a full game.
HMS Steward, an aircraft carrier. Dominates the aerial battle but needs a fleet of wingers to repel surface attacks ...
The amount of people who said Slade and T. Curry shouldn't ever be in an england jersey again who were eating their words yesterday. Both of them were amazing yesterday.
Murley obviously has so much potential needs to revise goal line rules haha but deserves a second showing.
Feels like England gassed out in a way, and then the Irish bench made the diffference. England do have the talent to win tho
Crazy how genge is so highly rated, gets rated higher than the man opposite him on scrum yet he gave away a penalty at nearly ever scrum? Looks the part, seems to be a really likeable guy and has nice feet for a prop but never seems to do much imo 🇮🇪
Bring Ojomoh or another 12 in, one of Slades better games but doesn't offer enough anymore. Missed too many of his plays which just killed the attack for me, one good grubber a game isn't enough. Murley had a howler. Maybe Finn at 10 and Smith at 15 to start then Steward on the bench, won't be as much of a liability when the opponent has more tired players, Smith wouldn't have got stepped as last defender and might have attempted a tackle rather than flapping at wind as Steward does all too often.
Can't keep being plucky losers in a professional game
tom curry was lethal he helped a lot
Hi Tim , love the channel. Id be very interested to see an Ireland player rating 🙏🏻
Mainly agree with your ratings - I'd probably drop Earl to a 6 and boost Lawrence to an 8 but these are minor quibbles.
I understand why Borthwick picked 3 7s against Ireland but I feel we need a more balanced back row against France. I'd be tempted by Hill/Chessum at 6, Tom Willis at 8 (he needs a full game to see what he can do) and a Curry at 7 with the other on the bench.
I hope Murley keeps his spot, he misjudged the ball going over his head for the first mistake he made and I think that fried his brain resulting in the howler when he didn't just fall on the ball for the second mistake.
I think Freeman's a fantastic player who does a lot of things right but I do wonder whether he's got the top end pace for an international winger - he reminds me a bit in that way of Mark Cueto.
I don't really like a 6 - 2 split on the bench and it seems a bit pointless if you're going to play your loose head for 70+ minutes.
Agree a lot with that. Though the backline is still a collective issue. Dropping Murley feels harsh. I’d consider Roebuck for Freeman. Steward unfortunately locked in as there are no mega obvious replacements. Prop replacement a shambles. Surprised that wasn’t covered. Giving bench props 10 mins is pointless. May as well have Asher on the bench. He’s not quite ready but his ceiling is comfortably higher than Heyes and Stuart. If you want bench impact Rodd has to be on the bench too. Don’t know if Quirke is fit, if not Spencer offers more control. Randall clearly not up to it at this level as he’s shown time and time again.
Falling into the default mindset about the Bench. This is Rassie's genius. Bench is, if anything better, than starters... Horses for courses. Folks continue to think of Starters & Bench as being A & B. Boks? A & A...or A+...
Tim, I think you’re being overly generous here. 7th lose in 9. Good defensively in the 1st half but Ireland made a lot of errors that they eliminated in 2nd half. We offer next to nothing in attack. Borthwick isn’t the man.
I understand that rugby at the highest level has to be played on the edge of the rules, but I dont think you want your captain to be the one bending them, i think thats what differentiated ireland and england in the refs eyes
It doesn't help when the referee penalises you for the softest things. The lineout decision against Itoje was laughable.
@fraserposford144 no. Not really, he broke the rules of a line out, you aren't allowed to approach the other players in the lift never mind make any contact
England just kick to much away, they shift the advantage back to the opposition, last year they created more running lines......kicking for the sake of kicking will not win you anything, Irish were class so fair play to them.
The Curry brothers spent so much time and energy performing late tackles on Pendergast - a bad tactic that never worked.
What was the score when Ben went off? Pretty sure it was working ok. Wheels fell off when CCS came on.
Your right Ben is a 7 & should play there. England need to keep it simple, and play players in the position they are used to.
Borthwick makes very untimely substitutions. W/Cup v South Africa taking off the front row just when they were carrying the team's momentum. Nov series bringing on Ford when he didn't need to. Saturday replacing Earl - why?
For me they not fit enough to play how they want to plus they are trying to play as kick to compete game but just don't have the skill set not the chasers but the kicks weren't on the money. Then too many times we go to the boot in attack and again miss to many opportunities as not clinical enough.
And defence still too many gaps I think when blowing.
Close but not good enough tonight.
you look through this England team and there are still far too many players that are bang average with the odd decent moment.
What did Cowan-Dickie and Will Stuart bring to the pack? And how can we not have Opoku-Fordjour on the bench?? Our future front row is Fagosbon, Tuipulotu, Opoku-Fjordjour... the sooner we blood them the better.
Ben Earl is not a #8 and one line break doesn't make him one.
Slade is invisible so much of the time and is not any sort of leader in that team.
Freeman is not quick enough to be a winger these days, he should really concentrate on making midfield his position where his size and pace would make him dangerous in the centre of the field.
Steward at fullback offered nothing in attack, can't remember him beating an Irish man in attack once in the game. And his defence one-on-one has been embarassing on multiple occassions.
Marcus Smith... yes there are some great bits but it's always him and Slade responsible for going back to negative and aimless kicking rugby and not having the intelligence to see it's not working and changing it. Not a surprise to me that we scored 2 tries when we had Fin Smith there. There was one moment in particular that summed him up for me... a horrible loose ball got thrown to him near halfway line. There was no panic, no rushed kick, no attempted hero play. He simply took a moment to assess his options (despite Ireland defence rushing at him), flung a peach of a miss pass out wide to Slade and suddenly we're on the attack (which obviously didn't go anywhere because it was Slade. I think it was 2018 the last time he ran past a defender..) If Borthwick refuses to change Marcus, perhaps Fin should be at 12 as he's a solid defender too and has far more to his game than Slade does.
And our back 3 needs some magic... Lowe won the game for Ireland, Darcy Graham won the game for Scotland. Let's not even mention the French wingers! Who in that England back 3 is going to regularly create that sort of moment?
Randall is truly AWFUL. What is the point on bringing him on to box kick when he's clearly terrible at it? Please please please let us see Raffi Quirke on the bench against France.
You sound like you think Borthwick sees the games and will make sensible corrections.....but he won't
I'm far past hope, now just resignation remains
England needs to change their stance on players playing abroad. Smith is brilliant, but Farrell, Willis, Lawes and Arundell could have made a hell of a difference today. (Imagine Earl, Willis and Lawes starting, and T. Curry coming off the bench. Woof).
Arundell and Farell have been playing crap
Arundel has been garbage in France and is nowhere close to any of the top 4 England wing options. Farrell has had a nightmare season with injuries and having to play with the bosses son, a Championship level player, at 12 outside him and looks broken. Lawes is playing well but time looks to have caught up with him. Willis is playing brilliantly in an amazing Toulouse team but is the only player I feel might make a difference and then would it be significantly above what T Curry offered?
Funnily enough both Vunipolae are having exceptional seasons and yet I think it's more about French rugby suiting them now rather than that they've suddenly improved massively. Rolling subs helps too!
I thought both Currie brothers had great games but thought Ben should have had a higher rating despite Toms try.
Big selection issue for SB as the lineout needs a 3rd jumper
no way Tommy F a 6 mate...yes the tries scored on his wing but overall performance as good as expected...agree the bench had v little impact