@kingdeedee I wouldn't be suprised if all of that was intentionally not changed. Like what would the marketing for MW3 have been if they had made all these changes in MWII? "Here's 16 maps and 50 more health, everything else is identical now give us $70"? It just seems too convenient that IW handled the game the way they did given how much better they were with their last 2 games
@@WellCookedPotatoes There's a 0% chance that IW would allow SHG to edit their guns to that degree. They wouldn't even allow SHG to put a pick 10 system into the game, you really think they would allow SHG to make drastic changes to their precious guns?
They still work if the shield is on the player's back. tbh it made running the shield as a primary unusable. The shield had way too many counters/nerfs already
That's why I almost always stick with explosive tips. They're great against the turtle meta that keeps coming around once Rust 24/7 becomes a thing. Sad they made the regular bolts practically useless in MP now.
I'm hoping they'll rebalance some of the attachments for MW2 guns, but I doubt they'll do it (if at all) for a while. Hopefully when we get towards the second half of the game's life cycle they'll buff the barrels for MW2 guns to inject some variety when things start getting stale.
No, they shouldn't. Everyone has been using the MWII guns for the past year. It's time to go to the MWIII weapons and have the same learning curve as everyone else.
I think you should do a part 2 to this video focusing on Battle rifles, Marksman rifles and LMGs. I think BR and MR categories have some of the most drastic differences between mw2 and mw3 guns.
I was in the MR camp in MW2. Was a nice change of pace from using ARs and SMGs for years and years. Now they're comparatively useless unless you're a headshot king. We have the Longbow now which has longer ADS, but incredible one-shot potential with a 30 round mag. They could easily make the MK2 have the same one-shot potential as MW2 and it would be fine because it would still have worse one-shot potential and only holds 6 rounds.
@@overkillgaming1424 yeah they were just ported over with mw2 values and havent been adjusted for MW3 hp. That seems to be the case with all MW2 guns except for MW2 ARs.
I think the Battle Rifles, Semi-auto DMRs, and Shotguns are the biggest losers with the new TTK and highlight some of the more confusing choices with the gunsmith system. The FTAC is one of the most perplexing guns to me right now because it can no longer one-shot headshot and you're averaging two and often three shots to kill. It starts with a 10 round mag and you can put a 5 round magazine on it. At least in MWII each of those bullets could be a kill, now an already hardly used attachment is basically vestigial. But it's confusing to me just how many of the new guns still let you downgrade things like magazine size. SMGs can already take quite a few shots to kill with at any sort of range in a gunfight, and that's not accounting for the shots you miss. Running a 20 round mag on a WSP Swarm is putting yourself at a disadvantage in every scenario but you could almost make an argument for it in a game like MWII, but with MWIII it feels like an artifact left from an earlier, more lethal build that's present only to give the illusion of choice. My biggest frustration of MWIII as someone who likes to use as many guns as possible, especially doing camo challenges, is just how many guns feel weak, even in their niche. The MCW 6.8 not being able to 1 shot headshot like other semi-auto DMRs altogether and the Riveter just not being good even in very close ranges are really frustrating, and I get it, they wanted to increase the TTK, but certain gun types that where already niche with MWII's higher TTK now feel like they have even less of a place than they already had.
Exactly, the guns that are affected the most and suck big time, are not even mentioned in this video, under pretense that are niche, so who cares i guess.
its clear mw3's armory was designed with 100 hp in mind but towards the end of development they changed hp values and tweaked the damage numbers cause MW3 is a full on Damage Control call of duty trying to give players everything they want in order to placate them since both vanguard and mw2 ended up being stinkers (one more than the other)
And the TTK difference is hardly noticeable between MWII and III in practice! But apparently the higher TTK is full justification for nerfing guns that were never really a problem and still wouldn't be in their old state. lol
its a shame they didnt work away that visual recoil, will be a deal breaker for alot of people on MNK. The extra mag should just be easy to patch in, probably a rushed oversight.
Remember in MW2 there was no consistency in ammo reserves across magazines for different guns. They don't give a shit, if they did they would've polished it up from the start.@@David_1789
On a whim, I started using that Lachman 556 Spawn blueprint yesterday and it was blowing me away. I was finally getting triple kills with a 30 round mag, consistently. Medium ranges, it's a monster. Long ranges, it's the marshmallow king though.
Pretty sure that's just the "skill based damage" kicking in I've noticed the ttk is very inconsistent sometimes i kill in 3-4 shots and sometimes I'm mag dumping on target to get kills
I felt like the recoil in modern warfare 2 was actually pretty well done and very immersive. You can definitely see the muzzle smoke though if you do a suppressor or a flash hider. I also agree that the barrels were usually not worth using.
The Shotguns got the short end of the stick for sure. Goomie did a video comparing the OSK range, and the Lockwood 300 has a shorter range with the longest barrel and dual trigger than the 680. This isn't even factoring in the terrible ADS time with the longest barrel, where the 680s best barrel reduces ADS time.
It's so stupid too, like most of the MW3 shotguns have shorter barrels than the ones used in the MW2 guns. Yet the 680 has the same ridiculous one shot distance as the MW2 Bryson 800 and Lochwood
Also they butchered the expedite HARD. It's got a slow rate of fire but requires two shots at any real kind of range and usually needs a third too. Combine that with the high recoil and it's basically unusable. It's a shame because that's my baby in MW2 and I have almost 5k kills with it but I've had to put it down this time round.
I keep seeing people reference this, but the dual trigger in MWII had less range on the one shot kill than the Bryson 800 as well. The bonus to the dual trigger was consistency in damage up close. I don’t know if this is still the case in MWIII
I'm hoping they have more balancing lined up for the "more difficult" tasks like reducing the visual recoil on the gun and making the barrels less punishing on MW2 guns that they're holding off on until people have the chance to level the MW3 guns. I get incentivizing people to use the new guns, but once people have enough time to unlock/level the new guns then there's no reason to use any MW2 gun unless they change those things.
@TheXclusiveAce I only use DMRs and the EBR14 is one of my all time favourites, but in MW3 the gun is pretty much useless. It used to be 1bullet head shot now its 2bullets plus every kill you make you need to reload (ok in some circumstances you can get 2kills one magazine)
I’ve been trying to run the ebr as well and it has been rough. I can out tap fire opponents at a distance but it doesn’t feel like the fire rate was balanced for this longer ttk; even if you are placing your shots you get absolutely melted by most weapons (including pistols) at mid-close range. It’s kind of amazing to use in hardcore though.
They felt the need to make the MK2 even more of hit-marker machine too. But they're perfectly fine putting a 30 round, rapid firing sniper with incredible one-shot potential in the game. Logic.
Something is not adding up... Its a 2shot to head now in the firing range when you aim at the furthest dummy, it was always a 1 shot in MW2 Bottom line is the EBR14 is pretty much useless in MW3
Nice video, though shame the MRs/BRs are not mentioned once again. I understand the argument that ARs/SMGs are what most people play with, but its these semi-auto guns who suffer from this lack of proper balance the most. And as is, these are not just somewhat worse, they are completely useless. But no word about that here. So if SHG leaves them alone in their balance pass, it would not come as surprise, since apparently nobody cares anyway.
Say what you will about MWII, each weapon category felt relatively balanced with the ttk. In MWIII, if I want to keep a high k/d I’m simply not going to equip a shotgun or marksman rifle. I just think it’s a shame to have entire sets of weapons feeling ultimately pointless in a game where sbmm only exacerbates the detriments of using off-meta weapon types.
I've had fun experimenting with MW3 attachments on the MW2 assault rifles. The new underbarrel and barrel attachments have some interesting pros/cons that have refreshed my interest in the old guns.
Since the MWII guns are now in MWIII they are now also MWIII guns and so I think Sledgehammer and Raven should balance all the guns to have the same starting conditions (give low visual recoil, 3 reserve magazines, attachments, strafespeeds etc. ) to all guns in Warzone and MWIII but ofc they want that pay to win element so let's see if they can actually make the game good...
They might do some balancing a little later for Warzone. But we'll really have to see what kind of gun content we get from Season 1 in particular. Over all it seems like while the MW3 guns in the AR and SMG category have standouts and other -slightly- worse in other situations. I feel like (And have fought against the non standouts in 6v6) the MW2 guns don't perform terribly by any means. You just have to be better at taking into account the recoil patterns more tightly, keep your distances moderate and just be smart. Like looking at the Fennec, it's right middle of the pack still. It's not the melt machine it was in MW2, but when we had it in 2019 it wasn't as much of a melt machine as it was in MW2 as well. But still very effective within it's actual range. The thing about many MW2 guns is that with the right attachments you could pick at longer ranges, but in saying that, the engagement ranges on the base MW3 maps *Are* longer. So those more extreme recoil patterns on average (Taking visual recoil out of the equation for the sake of plot differences.) will make the longer range engagements harder than previously, to keep on target. Making a lot of the automatic weapons clearly not as viable at the 35-40 meter ranges that aren't uncommon, but still usable in more close range situations depending on how well your recoil control is with the gun.
I can see them doing an entire repass with the mw2 weapons during season 1, they likely left the visual recoil etc to deter folk from just using mw2 weapons and not touch the mw3 ones (not that it stopped the sad sweats)
In MWII you found out that SO-14 incendiary ammo is a good choice for taking out enemy killstreaks. I wonder how is it the case in MWIII? I presume SO-14 is still pretty good in that department, but maybe there are now better choices?
@@20Justin1ace had a video where the gun was by far the best at taking out streaks, and added with the amor piercing field upgrade it made quick work against streaks. They are asking if that’s still the case not if it can kill good
When the game launched, I thought I was being smart by carrying over my ranked loadouts so I could get an easy climb. Let’s just say I learned the hard way.
The whole ammo thing, where you spawn with less base ammo for MW2 weapons... that HAS to be fixed. To me, that is the biggest problem I have seen with weapon balance. Scavenger gloves are almost necessary, when you could be using other gloves that will better fit your current playstyle during that match.
One thing I noticed with the shotguns is the MW3 ones fire 6 pellets vs the 8 fired by MW2 shotguns but the pellets seem to do more damage on the MW3 guns. Would be a good test.
What is the point in having Carry Forward if they make the MW2 guns worse to use? Either make them as fun to use as the MW3 guns or dont bring them over at all. Not changing the visual recoil on mw2 guns is such a dumb move.
My experience on PC with mouse and keyboard. M4 has less visual recoil on mw3 than mw2. Also in mw2 the recoil got worse when shooting enemies vs walls and objects. Mw3 recoil is about the same all the time and isn't that bad.
I'm glad I follow this channel. Someone who's hardworking and dedicated, someone who hasn't sold out yet, someone who wants to take the time and effort to hand-test all these changes one by one. Thank you Ace. I don't know how to thank you besides Subscribing and liking.
Great video, as always. It doesn't surprise me at all that MW3 guns are superior than MW2 weapons, but I hope that the gap can be narrowed in future updates
If it wasn't for the ammo difference, I'd say they blended the MWII guns in pretty much perfectly. Even if they aren't used often, I still think its nice that they're there
Disappointed you didn't look into marksman rifles and give your thoughts on them, but really appreciate the effort you put into the other categories. Will you do a follow up on the other categories?
Its my top weapon in mw2. Nothing better than one shotting controller idiots in the head , it happens so fast they think im cheating. Their little brains cant comprehend it
My main problem with MWII guns right now are mostly in the marksmen class. It's practicality impossible to get consistent one shot kills with any of them.
Disappointed they didn't really adjust the visual recoil down to comparable levels. I'd love to see a battle rifles and marksman rifles comparison, as those are my favorite categories. I get the impression the BAS-B is gonna be pretty hard to beat.
@@emwols maybe it was updated because when I tried it first day the game came out it was almost always a 3 shot along a lot of other slow firing semi autos.
Small error on your SMG TTK graph for the max damage range shows the Lachmann Sub and Vaznev as MW3 guns and the Striker and AMR9 as MW2 guns. Just wanted to point it out but great video as always
Big one for me is the lever action cannot one shot w/o a headshot. With an +800ms rechamber time it's effectively worthless. It obviously would need a big rework as the overall longer ttk means one shot weapons cannot be nearly as snappy but it sucks that a unique weapon is now completely unviable
You talking about the MK2? It's my favorite weapon from MW2. Headshots are pretty much the only place you can get a one-shot kill in MW3, but it won't one-shot past a certain range. Maybe that's what you're noticing? Because I've been getting one-shots to the head with it, just not long-range (before I quit using it because it's outclassed by nearly everything now). The replacement is the Longbow, which is so overpowered that I don't even feel like I've earned my kills. The MK2 actually took some skill to use in MW2 at least and was still completely viable, and had the aesthetic I liked. It was a ton of fun to get better using. Now every shot has to be a headshot or I might as well be using a different weapon.
Just not the carrack. That thing is garbage in this game. Just a way worse version of the kvd enforcer (i think that's the one? The marksman rifle, not the sniper rifle)
The snipers from MWII all seem to suffer from major flinch at least with the MCPR and SPX-80 I've used. The flinch resistance grip or marksman gloves are basically required for any dedicated sniper class to go on streaks.
Honestly that's how flinch really should be by default. God forbid we get another cold war sniper situation I say this as someone who has mained sniping in this game
The main issue is that some attachments on the mw2 guns don't work. For example the .300 blackout rounds on the iso hemlock don't increase damage at all when they should. Another problem is converting the guns to semi auto, doesn't feel like it increases damage like it did in the previous game
tbh i have no desire to really mess with the mw2 guns… since, ya know, i wanna use the new ones right now. im sure ill eventually use them again but i really wish they didnt let you use them at the start of the game. felt like it kinda messed with the new launch feeling… especially with the attachments
Quick tip about ammo with some smgs: If the smg uses 9mm, you can use dual renetti with 50 round mag to get a huge amount of extra reserve ammo for your smg because they share ammo I think it's like another 150 rounds
The handguns of mw3 are also holding themself up in mw3 (adide from the high caliber ones like the Basilisk and the deagle, using them is the definition of pain)
that's really sad they didn't bother to update the MW2 gun animation/effects to be on par with MW3 weapons in terms of visual recoil and barrel smoke, i hope we get an overhaul patch for those guns in the near future for them to be on par with MW3 guns
The m4 is an absolute beast in this game ive created a build that allows for lazering at long ranges with a combo of mw2 and mw3 attachments and its on god absolutely insaine it has more accuracy than the mcw and its just completely broken rn in my opinion the ttk is also broken asf rn as well
I love fr avenser and tr76 gayst, and caste 545, I mainly play with them in the new mw3, but it’s a shame for the balancing of modules, but it’s great to play with them if anything, I wrote through a translator, something might not have been translated correctly
"This has been the highest effort video I've made in quite some time," A few dummies will take that way out of context lol, thank you for your work Ace 🤟
Will be interesting to see how they change things over time. I'd generally expect the new things to be favored over the old but once things are settled pretty well we might see a pretty good mix of new and old. They could do some more work on the visual kick to the older guns.
These findings make sense from a straight numbers perspective. However, theoretical TTK vs actual TTK is the difference here. In MW2, the visual recoil shake/bounce/smoke etc, ESPECIALLY with higher zoom optics, was just very hard to control. This is why everyone used an AIM-OP4 on their LMGs and ARs. SMGs, it didnt really matter because you were only fighting up close so you didn't really need to use optics minus a red dot. This notion lines up with your research with MW2 SMGs being a little better or even similar to MW3 SMGs in terms of TTK. In summary, it seems like, especially for Warzone, MW3 ARs and LMGs are going to be king and trump any MW2 AR or LMG. If you run SMGs, MW3 SMGs will probably be slightly better but you could still get away with some MW2 SMGs. Snipers, I'm not sure what the velocity values are on the MW3 Snipers, but I'm assuming their probably going to be greater than MW2 Snipers. If you have a maxxed out MCW or Holger 556 as an example, take it to the firing range. Kit them out as you would for a long range AR. The MCW is a literal laser beam even with a 4x. In MW2, if you put on a 4x on a Taq56 or a Lach556, there was still visual recoil. Long rang AR meta is back on the menu, just as it was in Verdansk.
Thanks for all of your hard work, Ace. I really appreciate how consistently rigorous and detailed you are in your analyses. We don't deserve you, but man am I glad we've got you!
I really hope that at least by season 1 and Warzone integration they bring the MW2 guns in line with the MW3 ones. People will inherently want to use the new guns because they’re new and freshly available to free players, and sales will go up regardless because people will want multiplayer for the ability to easily level their guns. It is the healthiest option for the game in the long run to take the pains to ensure that all available weapons are balanced to each other
Thank you from someone who didnt play MW2. I liked some of the MW2 guns and wanted to see which ones could hold their own in MW3 so I can level up many guns haha
I got the game about a week ago and I've been going gun by gun leveling them up to max and then moving on to the next gun. Its been an interesting experience starting bare bones then developing a gun from no attachments to full attachments/min-maxed and identifying what it's distinct role is inside this diverse sandbox. So far I only have 2 complaints over the Mw2 weapons, starting ammo and some attachments should be retuned for the benefits and cons they provide. Those 2 things should be brought in line with the Mw3 weapons and I think it would just be generally fair and not too much to ask of while also not giving them a significant power boost
since launch i have been using the P90 trying to get it gold (because i never got MW2) and with the right attachments it's a really powerful weapon, same can be said for the SCAR.
Well i played mw2 moshpit and i feel like sbmm is so low i use whatever and have a good time if i play quick play have to use meta its crazy how much of diffrence there is between those modes and how much sbmm makes this game blow
I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Taq Radicator is still not in the game. I don't know if i missed a blog post by activision or something, but that weapon was supposed to be in the game on launch. The calling cards for it are in the game, they just can't be unlocked
I really hope they can go in and tune down the visual recoil on all the MW2 guns, I think they’d be enjoyable to use at least, also love the videos! Keep up the amazing work!
My brother pointed out that the guns in MW2 were in his opinion, no match for the guns in MW3 so this video was really helpful in terms of finding out which guns we should use.
The main problem with MW2 weapons is the body multipliers they didn't balance them right for 150hp, it effects the Battle rifles, DMR, and some 1 shot weapons like the Snake shot mw2 magnum
Thanks so much for putting the time into making this video. This was my biggest question about Carry Forward. My hope is that later in the year they buff the MWII guns quite a bit. MWII was so unfun that I ended up not even leveling up all the guns let alone camos. Hopefully in season 3 or something they buff the visual recoil or at least add an extra magazine to them all.
good thing you actually said this: the AMR9 horrendous sprint out and jump ADS time seems bugged. it is so painfully slow it feels like i kitted a SMG in MW2 with 5 attachments at launch
I think the biggest thing is the MW2 guns suffer from having their weapon tuning removed which was absolutely critical on certain weapons like the M16, most LMGs, LS-1, Tempus Torrent, most of the SMGs, Some weapons just having disgusting recoil or disgusting idle sway or one kind of defective area that it was critical to fix with tuning, now you just can't do that.
The chimera oddly has the lowest ttk in the game right now, with only 0.23, while most other mw3 guns are around the 0.30 mark give or take depends on the gun
That visual recoil is so noticeable now that its been reduced for the other guns. That is by far my biggest deterrent
Yet another infinity ward f*ck up for sledgehammer to hopefully clean up but what else is new?
@kingdeedee I wouldn't be suprised if all of that was intentionally not changed. Like what would the marketing for MW3 have been if they had made all these changes in MWII? "Here's 16 maps and 50 more health, everything else is identical now give us $70"?
It just seems too convenient that IW handled the game the way they did given how much better they were with their last 2 games
Just wish the iron sights were better on the MW3 guns.
Mw2 had some nice iron sights, only thing that's better on the guns.
@sQuaTsiFieD learn to adapt to them or use an attachment..
@@WellCookedPotatoes There's a 0% chance that IW would allow SHG to edit their guns to that degree. They wouldn't even allow SHG to put a pick 10 system into the game, you really think they would allow SHG to make drastic changes to their precious guns?
The fact that explosive tip on the crossbow no longer sticks to riot shields is absolutely insane
What the f***? Are you serious?
Same with explosive rounds not killing bomb perk guys
They still work if the shield is on the player's back. tbh it made running the shield as a primary unusable. The shield had way too many counters/nerfs already
@@inconspicuous7464cry about it loser you're not a ninja turtle
When did it ever? I thought it was only the thermite tips that goes behind the shield
Fun fact you need 2 shots to kill someone with crossbow which makes the weapon useless
Same with the other Marksman "Sniper" weapons.
Lmao
They unintentionally made the crossbow realistic while making every other gun arcadey
@@wondertownfunk6858if you get penetrated by a crossbow you're probably dying
That’s a problem with a longer ttk COD, balance comes at the cost of actual fun weapons.
That's why I almost always stick with explosive tips. They're great against the turtle meta that keeps coming around once Rust 24/7 becomes a thing. Sad they made the regular bolts practically useless in MP now.
I'm hoping they'll rebalance some of the attachments for MW2 guns, but I doubt they'll do it (if at all) for a while. Hopefully when we get towards the second half of the game's life cycle they'll buff the barrels for MW2 guns to inject some variety when things start getting stale.
Has they did between mw2019 and cold war. And you keep buying and playing it
i do hope they dont become obselete in the future, my beloved Vaznev how i miss you🥺
they need rebalance all guns kill times be faster
@@ericx6969 That would just completely defeat the purpose of the higher health.
How the have massacred my fennec....
Well if you play Zombies the P90 surprisingly is a dope gun. Carries 400 rnds if you Pack-A-Punch it
P90 zombies meta 💯
The hurricane as well, not as much but still alot
@@VenusExplorerThe Hurricane uses the same ammo and magazines as the P90. That's to be expected.
@@dillonc7955 will try that out after I finis the P90
@@dillonc7955 This is a zombies game son, it doesn't have to follow any kind of logic
They need to further balance the MWII guns to be more in line with MWIII. It should feel like they were designed to be there from the start.
No, they shouldn't. Everyone has been using the MWII guns for the past year. It's time to go to the MWIII weapons and have the same learning curve as everyone else.
But then people wouldn't buy all those new bundles if the guns they already bought bundles for are good
@@WellCookedPotatoes Activision just saw this and removed all the MWII guns. Lmao
Lol they were, mw3 was a dlc.
Heck n o, they should defacto be weaker than MW3 guns so that we can use something new. The metas in mw2 were so incredibly stagnant and stale already
I think you should do a part 2 to this video focusing on Battle rifles, Marksman rifles and LMGs. I think BR and MR categories have some of the most drastic differences between mw2 and mw3 guns.
I was in the MR camp in MW2. Was a nice change of pace from using ARs and SMGs for years and years. Now they're comparatively useless unless you're a headshot king. We have the Longbow now which has longer ADS, but incredible one-shot potential with a 30 round mag. They could easily make the MK2 have the same one-shot potential as MW2 and it would be fine because it would still have worse one-shot potential and only holds 6 rounds.
All of the mw2 lmgs have very significantly reduced ranges which makes them unusable
@@overkillgaming1424 yeah they were just ported over with mw2 values and havent been adjusted for MW3 hp. That seems to be the case with all MW2 guns except for MW2 ARs.
@@radeni well the dmg values are correct for moat weapons its the dmg ranges and fall offs that are EXTREMELY BAD with mw2 weapons
@@overkillgaming1424 Ranges are extremely bad but the damage values also need adjustments. Crossbow doesn't even 1shot anymore
You know if Ace says he put a lot of time into a video, MAN, that's some serious work right there. It's much appreciated. Excellent!
Appreciate all the work you do for our community. Keep the great work up.
I was VERY surprised by the Tempus Razorback. I made a crazy build for it that has very little recoil. Thanks for the video, Ace!
I think the Battle Rifles, Semi-auto DMRs, and Shotguns are the biggest losers with the new TTK and highlight some of the more confusing choices with the gunsmith system.
The FTAC is one of the most perplexing guns to me right now because it can no longer one-shot headshot and you're averaging two and often three shots to kill. It starts with a 10 round mag and you can put a 5 round magazine on it. At least in MWII each of those bullets could be a kill, now an already hardly used attachment is basically vestigial.
But it's confusing to me just how many of the new guns still let you downgrade things like magazine size. SMGs can already take quite a few shots to kill with at any sort of range in a gunfight, and that's not accounting for the shots you miss. Running a 20 round mag on a WSP Swarm is putting yourself at a disadvantage in every scenario but you could almost make an argument for it in a game like MWII, but with MWIII it feels like an artifact left from an earlier, more lethal build that's present only to give the illusion of choice.
My biggest frustration of MWIII as someone who likes to use as many guns as possible, especially doing camo challenges, is just how many guns feel weak, even in their niche. The MCW 6.8 not being able to 1 shot headshot like other semi-auto DMRs altogether and the Riveter just not being good even in very close ranges are really frustrating, and I get it, they wanted to increase the TTK, but certain gun types that where already niche with MWII's higher TTK now feel like they have even less of a place than they already had.
Exactly, the guns that are affected the most and suck big time, are not even mentioned in this video, under pretense that are niche, so who cares i guess.
its clear mw3's armory was designed with 100 hp in mind but towards the end of development they changed hp values and tweaked the damage numbers cause MW3 is a full on Damage Control call of duty trying to give players everything they want in order to placate them since both vanguard and mw2 ended up being stinkers (one more than the other)
Yeah I only use shotguns and they're gutted this year. However, the riveter is usable. Not perfect, but usable.
And the TTK difference is hardly noticeable between MWII and III in practice! But apparently the higher TTK is full justification for nerfing guns that were never really a problem and still wouldn't be in their old state. lol
its a shame they didnt work away that visual recoil, will be a deal breaker for alot of people on MNK. The extra mag should just be easy to patch in, probably a rushed oversight.
How do you overlook the difference in reserve ammo? That’s a choice and they’ll only fix it if they feel pressured.
The visual recoil is the biggest issue with the mw2 guns even beyond their ttk imo
Remember in MW2 there was no consistency in ammo reserves across magazines for different guns. They don't give a shit, if they did they would've polished it up from the start.@@David_1789
On a whim, I started using that Lachman 556 Spawn blueprint yesterday and it was blowing me away. I was finally getting triple kills with a 30 round mag, consistently. Medium ranges, it's a monster. Long ranges, it's the marshmallow king though.
Pretty sure that's just the "skill based damage" kicking in I've noticed the ttk is very inconsistent sometimes i kill in 3-4 shots and sometimes I'm mag dumping on target to get kills
In the sniper category, as a 41 year old, the SPX is the absolute best (in 6v6 and 10v10). I would love to see a video comparing the SPX to the XRK.
I felt like the recoil in modern warfare 2 was actually pretty well done and very immersive. You can definitely see the muzzle smoke though if you do a suppressor or a flash hider. I also agree that the barrels were usually not worth using.
exactly, it was realistic and looks good, but feels terrible and makes them borderline unusable on MNK
Anyone notice how the p90 lightweight rail causes your hit markers to appear above the iron sight
The Shotguns got the short end of the stick for sure. Goomie did a video comparing the OSK range, and the Lockwood 300 has a shorter range with the longest barrel and dual trigger than the 680. This isn't even factoring in the terrible ADS time with the longest barrel, where the 680s best barrel reduces ADS time.
It's so stupid too, like most of the MW3 shotguns have shorter barrels than the ones used in the MW2 guns. Yet the 680 has the same ridiculous one shot distance as the MW2 Bryson 800 and Lochwood
Also they butchered the expedite HARD. It's got a slow rate of fire but requires two shots at any real kind of range and usually needs a third too. Combine that with the high recoil and it's basically unusable. It's a shame because that's my baby in MW2 and I have almost 5k kills with it but I've had to put it down this time round.
I keep seeing people reference this, but the dual trigger in MWII had less range on the one shot kill than the Bryson 800 as well. The bonus to the dual trigger was consistency in damage up close. I don’t know if this is still the case in MWIII
I'm hoping they have more balancing lined up for the "more difficult" tasks like reducing the visual recoil on the gun and making the barrels less punishing on MW2 guns that they're holding off on until people have the chance to level the MW3 guns. I get incentivizing people to use the new guns, but once people have enough time to unlock/level the new guns then there's no reason to use any MW2 gun unless they change those things.
@TheXclusiveAce I only use DMRs and the EBR14 is one of my all time favourites, but in MW3 the gun is pretty much useless. It used to be 1bullet head shot now its 2bullets plus every kill you make you need to reload (ok in some circumstances you can get 2kills one magazine)
I’ve been trying to run the ebr as well and it has been rough. I can out tap fire opponents at a distance but it doesn’t feel like the fire rate was balanced for this longer ttk; even if you are placing your shots you get absolutely melted by most weapons (including pistols) at mid-close range. It’s kind of amazing to use in hardcore though.
Only decent MWII DMR is the taq-m surpassingly since it can two shot or one shot headshot
They felt the need to make the MK2 even more of hit-marker machine too. But they're perfectly fine putting a 30 round, rapid firing sniper with incredible one-shot potential in the game. Logic.
They massacred my boy😢 the interceptor takes its place now
Something is not adding up...
Its a 2shot to head now in the firing range when you aim at the furthest dummy, it was always a 1 shot in MW2
Bottom line is the EBR14 is pretty much useless in MW3
Nice video, though shame the MRs/BRs are not mentioned once again. I understand the argument that ARs/SMGs are what most people play with, but its these semi-auto guns who suffer from this lack of proper balance the most. And as is, these are not just somewhat worse, they are completely useless. But no word about that here. So if SHG leaves them alone in their balance pass, it would not come as surprise, since apparently nobody cares anyway.
Say what you will about MWII, each weapon category felt relatively balanced with the ttk. In MWIII, if I want to keep a high k/d I’m simply not going to equip a shotgun or marksman rifle. I just think it’s a shame to have entire sets of weapons feeling ultimately pointless in a game where sbmm only exacerbates the detriments of using off-meta weapon types.
Also there are people that just find ARs and SMGs boring after using them for a decade.
I've had fun experimenting with MW3 attachments on the MW2 assault rifles. The new underbarrel and barrel attachments have some interesting pros/cons that have refreshed my interest in the old guns.
Since the MWII guns are now in MWIII they are now also MWIII guns and so I think Sledgehammer and Raven should balance all the guns to have the same starting conditions (give low visual recoil, 3 reserve magazines, attachments, strafespeeds etc. ) to all guns in Warzone and MWIII but ofc they want that pay to win element so let's see if they can actually make the game good...
😂
They might do some balancing a little later for Warzone. But we'll really have to see what kind of gun content we get from Season 1 in particular. Over all it seems like while the MW3 guns in the AR and SMG category have standouts and other -slightly- worse in other situations. I feel like (And have fought against the non standouts in 6v6) the MW2 guns don't perform terribly by any means. You just have to be better at taking into account the recoil patterns more tightly, keep your distances moderate and just be smart. Like looking at the Fennec, it's right middle of the pack still. It's not the melt machine it was in MW2, but when we had it in 2019 it wasn't as much of a melt machine as it was in MW2 as well. But still very effective within it's actual range. The thing about many MW2 guns is that with the right attachments you could pick at longer ranges, but in saying that, the engagement ranges on the base MW3 maps *Are* longer. So those more extreme recoil patterns on average (Taking visual recoil out of the equation for the sake of plot differences.) will make the longer range engagements harder than previously, to keep on target. Making a lot of the automatic weapons clearly not as viable at the 35-40 meter ranges that aren't uncommon, but still usable in more close range situations depending on how well your recoil control is with the gun.
Don't have MW3 but thanks for taking the time to do this for those of us who are on the fence.
Even if you don’t it also applies to warzone
@@Rockdwaynejonnyson damn. Another reason to dodge this.
@@breatheinthepinkairdon't buy it. What they fixed is not worth what they made worse. Not even close
@@d8l835Ya the Stranglehold the suits have on the priority of changes makes the game not reccomendable rn.
@@d8l835 heard that loud an clear bro
I’ve been enjoying the m13b. It feels good and still feels like a laser
I was just about to comment this. The m13b slays in mw3
@@ryanjones2307it THUMPS in this game
I’ve been using the M13 since MW2019. Still my favorite gun to this day
@@NeochromeNarratives it’s so good and consistent
M13c is just as good (if not better imo)
I can see them doing an entire repass with the mw2 weapons during season 1, they likely left the visual recoil etc to deter folk from just using mw2 weapons and not touch the mw3 ones (not that it stopped the sad sweats)
In MWII you found out that SO-14 incendiary ammo is a good choice for taking out enemy killstreaks. I wonder how is it the case in MWIII? I presume SO-14 is still pretty good in that department, but maybe there are now better choices?
Great shout I totally forgot about that
I tried using it and it's a 3-4 shot kill which makes it useless if you're on semi auto mode and competing against ARs or auto Marksman Rifles
@@20Justin1 that's not what they asked... they're asking on effectiveness against killstreaks
It's still good for taking out streaks
@@20Justin1ace had a video where the gun was by far the best at taking out streaks, and added with the amor piercing field upgrade it made quick work against streaks. They are asking if that’s still the case not if it can kill good
When the game launched, I thought I was being smart by carrying over my ranked loadouts so I could get an easy climb. Let’s just say I learned the hard way.
The whole ammo thing, where you spawn with less base ammo for MW2 weapons... that HAS to be fixed. To me, that is the biggest problem I have seen with weapon balance. Scavenger gloves are almost necessary, when you could be using other gloves that will better fit your current playstyle during that match.
The Chimera was my favorite in MWII, seeing how good it is in MWIII makes me very happy!
Taq - v was my favorite in mw II , and i disopointed cuse activision killed this gun in mwIII
One thing I noticed with the shotguns is the MW3 ones fire 6 pellets vs the 8 fired by MW2 shotguns but the pellets seem to do more damage on the MW3 guns. Would be a good test.
In the SMG TTK (Max DMG Range) chart, it's either the color or name for Striker and Lachmann-SUB are inverted/shifted.
I'm a LMG user and an overall squad support. I have 10 classes, 9 are LMG's, 0 of them are LMG's from MWIII, MWII LMG's still absolutely RIP
What is the point in having Carry Forward if they make the MW2 guns worse to use? Either make them as fun to use as the MW3 guns or dont bring them over at all.
Not changing the visual recoil on mw2 guns is such a dumb move.
My experience on PC with mouse and keyboard. M4 has less visual recoil on mw3 than mw2. Also in mw2 the recoil got worse when shooting enemies vs walls and objects. Mw3 recoil is about the same all the time and isn't that bad.
I’ve liked used the M4 in MW3
I'm glad I follow this channel. Someone who's hardworking and dedicated, someone who hasn't sold out yet, someone who wants to take the time and effort to hand-test all these changes one by one. Thank you Ace. I don't know how to thank you besides Subscribing and liking.
2:07 lol that symf flick after the AA's gone
Great video, as always. It doesn't surprise me at all that MW3 guns are superior than MW2 weapons, but I hope that the gap can be narrowed in future updates
If it wasn't for the ammo difference, I'd say they blended the MWII guns in pretty much perfectly. Even if they aren't used often, I still think its nice that they're there
Disappointed you didn't look into marksman rifles and give your thoughts on them, but really appreciate the effort you put into the other categories. Will you do a follow up on the other categories?
XA putting the most work & effort into cod videos and it's not even close. No one else is making these kind of videos. Much appreciated
The desert eagle is absolutely insane and I often find myself just using it as a primary
That thing is amazing lol
@@shortyjim08the P890 is pretty good too. Land a headshot and it’s a 2 shot kill with good fire rate
Its my top weapon in mw2. Nothing better than one shotting controller idiots in the head , it happens so fast they think im cheating. Their little brains cant comprehend it
Havent tried them all, but the M13B is great on MW3 imo.
BEST GUN IN GAME RN
@@notyourbuddy26no it’s not lol
@@notyourbuddy26not even close bud lmao
@@JaxShrimp88 TTK wise it’s up there for sure. Everyone just using MW3 weapons rn. It’s going to pop up in the meta soon.
@@trapperoftheyear9064 snipers and shotguns have the fastest ttk doesn’t mean they are the best weapons
My main problem with MWII guns right now are mostly in the marksmen class. It's practicality impossible to get consistent one shot kills with any of them.
Higher base health in MWIII core modes it's the same as it is in wz currently
Ace can you make this a multiple part series with the other gun classes (MRs, BRs, Snipers, Shotguns, Pistols)
Disappointed they didn't really adjust the visual recoil down to comparable levels. I'd love to see a battle rifles and marksman rifles comparison, as those are my favorite categories. I get the impression the BAS-B is gonna be pretty hard to beat.
Dmr guns outperform bas b as long you have good aim
I kinda wished you would’ve tested more semi autos as I don’t really use the taq m but it should be criminal to have it a 3 shot kill.
It’s a 2 shot, it’s actually the fastest killing marksman rifle among MWII and MWIII
@@emwols maybe it was updated because when I tried it first day the game came out it was almost always a 3 shot along a lot of other slow firing semi autos.
@@kenet362 maybe true, the last time I tried it was day one
Small error on your SMG TTK graph for the max damage range shows the Lachmann Sub and Vaznev as MW3 guns and the Striker and AMR9 as MW2 guns. Just wanted to point it out but great video as always
Big one for me is the lever action cannot one shot w/o a headshot. With an +800ms rechamber time it's effectively worthless.
It obviously would need a big rework as the overall longer ttk means one shot weapons cannot be nearly as snappy but it sucks that a unique weapon is now completely unviable
Yeah I’ve gone back to MWII because of this. That’s my favorite weapon and it’s useless now.
You talking about the MK2? It's my favorite weapon from MW2. Headshots are pretty much the only place you can get a one-shot kill in MW3, but it won't one-shot past a certain range. Maybe that's what you're noticing? Because I've been getting one-shots to the head with it, just not long-range (before I quit using it because it's outclassed by nearly everything now). The replacement is the Longbow, which is so overpowered that I don't even feel like I've earned my kills. The MK2 actually took some skill to use in MW2 at least and was still completely viable, and had the aesthetic I liked. It was a ton of fun to get better using. Now every shot has to be a headshot or I might as well be using a different weapon.
I would like to take a look at snipers. It feels like some of the better options are from MW2.
Just not the carrack. That thing is garbage in this game. Just a way worse version of the kvd enforcer (i think that's the one? The marksman rifle, not the sniper rifle)
@@frazfrazfrazfrazI've also noticed the Carrack being worse.
The snipers from MWII all seem to suffer from major flinch at least with the MCPR and SPX-80 I've used. The flinch resistance grip or marksman gloves are basically required for any dedicated sniper class to go on streaks.
Honestly that's how flinch really should be by default. God forbid we get another cold war sniper situation
I say this as someone who has mained sniping in this game
Like always great video, and straight forward structure
THANKS ACE FOR ALL THE HARD WORK
The main issue is that some attachments on the mw2 guns don't work. For example the .300 blackout rounds on the iso hemlock don't increase damage at all when they should. Another problem is converting the guns to semi auto, doesn't feel like it increases damage like it did in the previous game
it does increase damage 100%. it's noticeable on battle rifles, but on ARs it might not change the shots to kill
On the lachman 762(g3) it was same shots to kill in semi and auto I think which makes the gun suck so bad tbh
Yip, that Hemlock was a 2 shot headshot in MWII with that ammo type.
tbh i have no desire to really mess with the mw2 guns… since, ya know, i wanna use the new ones right now. im sure ill eventually use them again but i really wish they didnt let you use them at the start of the game. felt like it kinda messed with the new launch feeling… especially with the attachments
Thank you so much for all your hard work! Love the breakdowns. You the best!
Quick tip about ammo with some smgs:
If the smg uses 9mm, you can use dual renetti with 50 round mag to get a huge amount of extra reserve ammo for your smg because they share ammo
I think it's like another 150 rounds
The handguns of mw3 are also holding themself up in mw3 (adide from the high caliber ones like the Basilisk and the deagle, using them is the definition of pain)
Incredible work yet again, Ace. Keep it up!
I've been waiting for a video like this to come out. Awesome stuff Ace!!
that's really sad they didn't bother to update the MW2 gun animation/effects to be on par with MW3 weapons in terms of visual recoil and barrel smoke, i hope we get an overhaul patch for those guns in the near future for them to be on par with MW3 guns
Xclusive Ace back at it again with a banger vid
The m4 is an absolute beast in this game ive created a build that allows for lazering at long ranges with a combo of mw2 and mw3 attachments and its on god absolutely insaine it has more accuracy than the mcw and its just completely broken rn in my opinion the ttk is also broken asf rn as well
I love fr avenser and tr76 gayst, and caste 545, I mainly play with them in the new mw3, but it’s a shame for the balancing of modules, but it’s great to play with them if anything, I wrote through a translator, something might not have been translated correctly
"This has been the highest effort video I've made in quite some time,"
A few dummies will take that way out of context lol,
thank you for your work Ace 🤟
Most importantly x13 secondary has honestly saved me sooo many times when multiple players push me. 👊🏽
I started running MW2 guns again recently. I was surprised at how much I really enjoyed using them. Plus I wanna show off that Bioluminescent... lol
11:02 shhhhhhhhh you’re giving me PTSD from the OG MW3 when everyone ran around with the MP7 and ACR 🤣
Will be interesting to see how they change things over time. I'd generally expect the new things to be favored over the old but once things are settled pretty well we might see a pretty good mix of new and old. They could do some more work on the visual kick to the older guns.
Ace gotta be the most dedicated and consistent COD RUclipsr who also doesn’t just shamelessly shill for Activision
These findings make sense from a straight numbers perspective. However, theoretical TTK vs actual TTK is the difference here. In MW2, the visual recoil shake/bounce/smoke etc, ESPECIALLY with higher zoom optics, was just very hard to control. This is why everyone used an AIM-OP4 on their LMGs and ARs. SMGs, it didnt really matter because you were only fighting up close so you didn't really need to use optics minus a red dot. This notion lines up with your research with MW2 SMGs being a little better or even similar to MW3 SMGs in terms of TTK.
In summary, it seems like, especially for Warzone, MW3 ARs and LMGs are going to be king and trump any MW2 AR or LMG. If you run SMGs, MW3 SMGs will probably be slightly better but you could still get away with some MW2 SMGs. Snipers, I'm not sure what the velocity values are on the MW3 Snipers, but I'm assuming their probably going to be greater than MW2 Snipers.
If you have a maxxed out MCW or Holger 556 as an example, take it to the firing range. Kit them out as you would for a long range AR. The MCW is a literal laser beam even with a 4x. In MW2, if you put on a 4x on a Taq56 or a Lach556, there was still visual recoil. Long rang AR meta is back on the menu, just as it was in Verdansk.
Hey ace, just wanted to say I appreciate what you do for the community. Have a good weekend!
Thanks for all of your hard work, Ace. I really appreciate how consistently rigorous and detailed you are in your analyses. We don't deserve you, but man am I glad we've got you!
Great video ace, top 10 guns in mw3.
I really hope that at least by season 1 and Warzone integration they bring the MW2 guns in line with the MW3 ones. People will inherently want to use the new guns because they’re new and freshly available to free players, and sales will go up regardless because people will want multiplayer for the ability to easily level their guns. It is the healthiest option for the game in the long run to take the pains to ensure that all available weapons are balanced to each other
Thank you from someone who didnt play MW2. I liked some of the MW2 guns and wanted to see which ones could hold their own in MW3 so I can level up many guns haha
We appreciate your hard work bro. Creating this video is impressive
I got the game about a week ago and I've been going gun by gun leveling them up to max and then moving on to the next gun.
Its been an interesting experience starting bare bones then developing a gun from no attachments to full attachments/min-maxed and identifying what it's distinct role is inside this diverse sandbox.
So far I only have 2 complaints over the Mw2 weapons, starting ammo and some attachments should be retuned for the benefits and cons they provide. Those 2 things should be brought in line with the Mw3 weapons and I think it would just be generally fair and not too much to ask of while also not giving them a significant power boost
since launch i have been using the P90 trying to get it gold (because i never got MW2) and with the right attachments it's a really powerful weapon, same can be said for the SCAR.
on paper the chimera also was one of the top guns in mw2, but that bullet velocity really fucks it over ngl
Well i played mw2 moshpit and i feel like sbmm is so low i use whatever and have a good time if i play quick play have to use meta its crazy how much of diffrence there is between those modes and how much sbmm makes this game blow
I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Taq Radicator is still not in the game. I don't know if i missed a blog post by activision or something, but that weapon was supposed to be in the game on launch. The calling cards for it are in the game, they just can't be unlocked
I really hope they can go in and tune down the visual recoil on all the MW2 guns, I think they’d be enjoyable to use at least, also love the videos! Keep up the amazing work!
Kastov 762 and kastov 74u was one of my fav on mw2 gonna try them out tomorrow
My brother pointed out that the guns in MW2 were in his opinion, no match for the guns in MW3 so this video was really helpful in terms of finding out which guns we should use.
Why they even put a completely separate games guns into this new cod is beyond me. Same UI same guns same everything for $70
The difference in reserve ammo is an issue, particularly with the 150 health. There’s no excuse for it.
As always, Ace is killing it. Thanks for the vid man. 👍
I hate that there’s too many attachments when I’m looking for a attachment
Glad I subscribed, would probably have never seen that very obvious visual recoil comparison. Thanks for the intel
I've been having success still running the Kastov 545 and the Lachman Sub
the striker in max dmg range is coloured green instead of red
It makes sense why they would be better on average, but i do think it's cool that you can carry them over- so it's got that going for it. Great video!
The main problem with MW2 weapons is the body multipliers they didn't balance them right for 150hp, it effects the Battle rifles, DMR, and some 1 shot weapons like the Snake shot mw2 magnum
Thanks so much for putting the time into making this video. This was my biggest question about Carry Forward. My hope is that later in the year they buff the MWII guns quite a bit.
MWII was so unfun that I ended up not even leveling up all the guns let alone camos. Hopefully in season 3 or something they buff the visual recoil or at least add an extra magazine to them all.
good thing you actually said this: the AMR9 horrendous sprint out and jump ADS time seems bugged. it is so painfully slow it feels like i kitted a SMG in MW2 with 5 attachments at launch
I think the biggest thing is the MW2 guns suffer from having their weapon tuning removed which was absolutely critical on certain weapons like the M16, most LMGs, LS-1, Tempus Torrent, most of the SMGs,
Some weapons just having disgusting recoil or disgusting idle sway or one kind of defective area that it was critical to fix with tuning, now you just can't do that.
Thanks for putting in this work! Very helpful!
The chimera oddly has the lowest ttk in the game right now, with only 0.23, while most other mw3 guns are around the 0.30 mark give or take depends on the gun
The hit detection in your gameplays is crazy good. Mine is all over the place and often makes me die
Well done Ace, great work as always!