Clarifications, comments & links Towing Calculator l2sfbc.com/towcalc/ How to deal with sway ruclips.net/video/PS_T3-zCzHw/видео.html Why your trailer sways ruclips.net/video/nc0ndz92IWY/видео.html Trailer Weight Distribution - proving that too much nose weight is a bad idea ruclips.net/video/JeEEC5eVNCk/видео.html Also when I said the front axle was green, that meant it was within its load limit, NOT that it was safe - the problems with unloading the axle are explained. Front a commenter: "One further point to using tie downs on the car body/chassis - this places huge shock loads on the straps and the car body itself when the straps tighten during suspension rebound. We had issues when I worked at Holden, with new vehicles being delivered on trucks from Adelaide to QLD. It took a lot of tracking down, but we finally realised it was only occurring when the cars were transported on trucks that used older "chassis" tie down systems. The rebound shock was so high that it was destroying the fluid filled engine mounts as the body suddenly stopped but the engine kept raising. The loads on those straps must have been huge."
I’m a mechanical engineer, and was also once a volunteer firefighter. One fire call we had was for a car rollover on the Calder Fwy just north of Sunbury, on the southbound lanes. Muppet was towing a fairly newish XR6 Ute on a car trailer, with an old XC wagon doing the hauling. Naturally, every rule was broken. The XR6 was hard up against the winch post, and secured by the winch rope (big sign saying not to). No straps over the wheels. The trailer was nose heavy, got the wobbles coming down the hill, which wobbled the XR6 on the trailer, and got to the point it snapped the tow bar (the female side of a Hayman Reese) off the XC, then rolled the XR6 over the guard rail. If you know where to look, the Armco that was replaced is still visible.
Unfortunately, the people who need to see this probably don't watch your videos. I live in a rural area, where a lot of people cart water in the ubiquitous 100L IBC, either in the back of the ute, commonly a dual cab, or on a trailer. Physics was a lesson in school where most of them stared out the window.
Fantastic detailed explanation as always. One further point to using tie downs on the car body/chassis - this places huge shock loads on the straps and the car body itself when the straps tighten during suspension rebound. We had issues when I worked at Holden, with new vehicles being delivered on trucks from Adelaide to QLD. It took a lot of tracking down, but we finally realised it was only occurring when the cars were transported on trucks that used older "chassis" tie down systems. The rebound shock was so high that it was destroying the fluid filled engine mounts as the body suddenly stopped but the engine kept raising. The loads on those straps must have been huge.
Same for caravaners, so many have never towed anything more than a tiny garden trailer in their lives. Spend their retirement package on a big van and 4x4, then head straight off on an adventure tour.
- Heavy towing drivers should at least go out and get themselves a LR/MR license - and it would be a great thing during training for these courses if the truck be used to operate with a loaded trailer (up to 9 tonne trailer are allowed on Rigid truck licenses).
Probably $130,000 plus of vehicles totally and utterly not insured. If they had an accident and killed someone they would lose their cars, house and likely be jailed or heavily fined at minimum.
I was about to mention towing in reverse and the risk of damage, but you covered it at the end. Also note, spoilers can be the first thing to rip off. Also hard lids on Utes.
I'm surprised there wasn't more mention of the fact that it is going 95km/h on a dual carriageway. Maybe you could cut them a tiny bit of slack for considered moronism if they just needed to hop it a suburb or two at low speeds to get to a mechanic. At highways speeds and distances, that setup is just madness.
My mate had a close call towing an Rover 75 with a Rover 75! Way over the car towing limit but also didn't think about weight distribution of the trailer, in his case was too far back and not enough nose weight meaning the tow car rear axle was effectively being jacked off the ground! He was accelerating onto a motorway when it started snaking! It snaked so much that the trailer jockey wheel handle dented the tow car rear body panel! Luckily no one else was near and it was just the panel and his pride which were dented!!
Nah, when your trailer sways like a tail wagging the dog you’re supposed to hard accelerate to pull it straight. That’s what my cousins brother in law told me, but then again he is an idiot so I won’t be doing that. The fascination of people putting a towed car hard up to the front of the trailer is mind bending.
Also good time would have been devoted to tying down the load. I was called out to reload a car that had snapped the rear restraining strap and over-run the front rail of the trailer almost impacting the tow car. The braking force always exceeds the towing,so the hold back anchors are the most important. If the towball load is too heavy you have "tippy toe steering",potentially fatal !!
Prado's listed tare weight is very conservative from the factory, 2300kg doesn’t include fuel or the tow bar. So in reality they're nearly 2500kg without any other mods. Wouldn't surprise me if that the towed Prado is closer to 3t than 2.5t.
I have to ask, what is the point of a car trailer that is limited to a payload of 1200kgs? Other than very old cars, nothing would fit within that limit now.
Fair point. Back in the day many cars were lighter and would fit. Now only the smallest cars will be 1200 and under. The limit of 2000kg unbraked has not changed and that is what had driven the payload as 2000 - 800 tare is 1200 payload.
750kg max unbralked trailer GTM.. 2000kg trai.er weigbt is where breakaway brakes are required now. They aren't a lot of use when the wheels point to the sky- broken breakaway brakes are not a lot of use. Yes there is little to no point, for such a light trailer, as a sedan these days weight 1600kg or more. For large vehicles, truck or truck and trailer are the real option - a LR Truck with a 6000kg GTM trailer can do this no problems... If the real cost of bad transport options was more obvious, a tilt tray may become the cheaper option (are there any hire options for an MR tilt tray?? - private use, otherwise it needs tow permits/reg, and the driver a tow license).
When towing a car on a trailer, if i cant keep it back on the trailer to keep it over the axles as much as possible, I will load them rear first and see how that looks.
@@L2SFBC yeah i put that bit of the comment in half way through and then noticed you did address it. So I had removed my bit about the front axle before seeing your reply! I shouldn't jump the gun!
- haha, I came to your channel today to ask a trailer related question - another interesting one for a video idea maybe. - I hope this is a little on topic.. Terrible overloading on a passenger vehicle's rear end is not a great thing to see.. - You are more experienced than many in securing cars on trailers- ALL car trailers SHOULD be equipped - especially if rented (duty of care) - with wheel straps - preferably - heavy duty load rail ??E-Track - on the deck plates. FUTURE VIDEO IDEAS.... ( Effect of Trailer Drawbar length on stability. - The "10%" drawbar loading" - for a typical PIG trailer, does not take into account Moment arms. (Not a question, nor a rule, you misunderstood, I don't need to know, but there is some educational material to explore.) DISCUSSION ie. Taking into account the moments for different dimensions: trailer box placement - assuming uniform loading for bulk materials), drawbar length, vehicle mass distribution ( Vehicle CG, Passenger and payload CG) wheelbase and Towbar overhang... To achieve the typical 10% "tongue weight" (on the ball) the box trailer will be loaded around 20-30$ of the allowed payload weight on or adjacent to the leading edge of the box. Longer drawbars lessen the force on the ball, while not affecting the actual trailer weight distribution, ?? effects on dynamic stability in the treadmill model?? GENERAL MISUNDERSTANDINGS??? Noting: IF a vehicle can be loaded to near GVM, and then tow a 3000kg trailer ... ...(not heavier than the towing vehicles actual mass - not a GVM/GCM/GTM/ATM/... thing - as with heavy trucking, the actual load distribution matters, as is noted in reference to heavy rigid vehicles towing dog or pig trailers -GCM under 43000kg, without an Engineering Assessment / Study of the specific combination -.of the light and heavy trucking weight distribution - in combination trucks the lightest trailer should be last (and dollys really should be loaded the same as the tail).. ... Reduced Towball weight through the effect of a longer drawbar restoring vehicle dynamic conditions to "controllable" under most forseeable conditions. ( NHVR - NHV Mass and Dimension limits page4: "The maximum GML for a combination is 42.5 tonnes unless operating under a notice permit or specific scheme. ͧ CML heavy vehicles must be accredited under the NHVAS. ͧ HML heavy vehicles must be fitted with road friendly suspension and accredited under the NHVAS.")
Yes, there is no fixed definition of the ideal towball mass as it is very dependent on a lot of factors, like "what's the best tyre pressure". What is your specific question?
@@L2SFBC thanks for responding. Have a really great day.. Nb. There was no question more a statement for future exploration. (We now most people don't do maths, in the real world, more wing it and see..)
@@L2SFBC the amount of work the tyres do is more even, especially if higher power RWD, so wear rates are more even, tyre temperatures at pace are more even, and much more. It tends to mean lower moment of inertia around the CG too, which translates to better turn in and more agility.
@grouchoglobe . Once you exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle or the GCM of the whole combination it is illegal period , a weight distribution hitch will not make weight magically disappear .
@alby1o1 yes know that. These weights tho are set for towing at Max highway speed. Get a vehicle built prior to These weights laws and you can tow 2.5 times vehicle weight
Another video discussing something which you’re not remotely qualified to talk about!🙄 I love how when someone who does have the relevant training & qualifications tries to correct u on anything, your reaction is basically, “well, I have a RUclips degree. So I’m right & you’re wrong!”🙄 I look forward to your videos when u start teaching people how to perform surgery! 🤣
Which part of the video was incorrect? Where have I said that? Nowhere, is the answer. You're upset because you said my video on a 2:1 MA pull was wrong, and I refused to agree with you. My justification was the experiment I showed, not "my RUclips degree".
You serious mate? If you think Robert's points here aren't valid, you need to go do some (very basic) learning about physics and probably the vehicle regulations too.
Clarifications, comments & links
Towing Calculator l2sfbc.com/towcalc/
How to deal with sway ruclips.net/video/PS_T3-zCzHw/видео.html
Why your trailer sways ruclips.net/video/nc0ndz92IWY/видео.html
Trailer Weight Distribution - proving that too much nose weight is a bad idea ruclips.net/video/JeEEC5eVNCk/видео.html
Also when I said the front axle was green, that meant it was within its load limit, NOT that it was safe - the problems with unloading the axle are explained.
Front a commenter:
"One further point to using tie downs on the car body/chassis - this places huge shock loads on the straps and the car body itself when the straps tighten during suspension rebound.
We had issues when I worked at Holden, with new vehicles being delivered on trucks from Adelaide to QLD. It took a lot of tracking down, but we finally realised it was only occurring when the cars were transported on trucks that used older "chassis" tie down systems. The rebound shock was so high that it was destroying the fluid filled engine mounts as the body suddenly stopped but the engine kept raising. The loads on those straps must have been huge."
I’m a mechanical engineer, and was also once a volunteer firefighter. One fire call we had was for a car rollover on the Calder Fwy just north of Sunbury, on the southbound lanes. Muppet was towing a fairly newish XR6 Ute on a car trailer, with an old XC wagon doing the hauling. Naturally, every rule was broken. The XR6 was hard up against the winch post, and secured by the winch rope (big sign saying not to). No straps over the wheels. The trailer was nose heavy, got the wobbles coming down the hill, which wobbled the XR6 on the trailer, and got to the point it snapped the tow bar (the female side of a Hayman Reese) off the XC, then rolled the XR6 over the guard rail.
If you know where to look, the Armco that was replaced is still visible.
Wow! That nicely proves the point that too much nose weight is a bad idea as well as other things...
Unfortunately, the people who need to see this probably don't watch your videos. I live in a rural area, where a lot of people cart water in the ubiquitous 100L IBC, either in the back of the ute, commonly a dual cab, or on a trailer. Physics was a lesson in school where most of them stared out the window.
1000L not 100
@RedDog265 Correct. I got excited.
Edit. Also, fairly okay IF full. If not full, dangerous due to free surface effects.
Single axle trailer at that too.
I bought a tandem with brakes as wanted to be legal.
Fantastic detailed explanation as always.
One further point to using tie downs on the car body/chassis - this places huge shock loads on the straps and the car body itself when the straps tighten during suspension rebound.
We had issues when I worked at Holden, with new vehicles being delivered on trucks from Adelaide to QLD. It took a lot of tracking down, but we finally realised it was only occurring when the cars were transported on trucks that used older "chassis" tie down systems. The rebound shock was so high that it was destroying the fluid filled engine mounts as the body suddenly stopped but the engine kept raising. The loads on those straps must have been huge.
Great info thanks, not considered that, will add to pinned comment!
Same for caravaners, so many have never towed anything more than a tiny garden trailer in their lives.
Spend their retirement package on a big van and 4x4, then head straight off on an adventure tour.
Most of them go to Dingo Piss Creek.
@@stendecstretcher5678. Yeah , to annoy Mr Cadogan.........................
Bart saying
¡Ay Caramba!
comes to mind
😂
Another excellent explanation Robert.
Just goes to show how important it is for completing a course prior to being allowed to tow a trailer.
Glad you found it helpful!
- Heavy towing drivers should at least go out and get themselves a LR/MR license - and it would be a great thing during training for these courses if the truck be used to operate with a loaded trailer (up to 9 tonne trailer are allowed on Rigid truck licenses).
no course required, what we need is $10000 fines for imbeciles doing this
I have an HR licence and none of what I talked about was taught. Didn't cover pig trailers.
@@kadmow another feminist Marxist
Probably $130,000 plus of vehicles totally and utterly not insured. If they had an accident and killed someone they would lose their cars, house and likely be jailed or heavily fined at minimum.
I was about to mention towing in reverse and the risk of damage, but you covered it at the end. Also note, spoilers can be the first thing to rip off. Also hard lids on Utes.
Scariest thing I've seen on the internet this year 😮
Don't forget to get your boosters 💉💉💉💉💉💉
Hilarious. The jimny is priceless too.
I'm surprised there wasn't more mention of the fact that it is going 95km/h on a dual carriageway. Maybe you could cut them a tiny bit of slack for considered moronism if they just needed to hop it a suburb or two at low speeds to get to a mechanic. At highways speeds and distances, that setup is just madness.
My mate had a close call towing an Rover 75 with a Rover 75! Way over the car towing limit but also didn't think about weight distribution of the trailer, in his case was too far back and not enough nose weight meaning the tow car rear axle was effectively being jacked off the ground! He was accelerating onto a motorway when it started snaking! It snaked so much that the trailer jockey wheel handle dented the tow car rear body panel!
Luckily no one else was near and it was just the panel and his pride which were dented!!
I wonder what the real world emergency stopping distance of that Prado rig would be. Not sure you could even safely test it.
Crumpled chassis I reckon ey
Nah, when your trailer sways like a tail wagging the dog you’re supposed to hard accelerate to pull it straight. That’s what my cousins brother in law told me, but then again he is an idiot so I won’t be doing that.
The fascination of people putting a towed car hard up to the front of the trailer is mind bending.
Cops would be preferable to the states transport department. Far more thorough inspections and maybe higher fines.
Also good time would have been devoted to tying down the load. I was called out to reload a car that had snapped the rear restraining strap and over-run the front rail of the
trailer almost impacting the tow car. The braking force always exceeds the towing,so the hold back anchors are the most important. If the towball load is too heavy you have
"tippy toe steering",potentially fatal !!
You can’t fix stupid.
Prado's listed tare weight is very conservative from the factory, 2300kg doesn’t include fuel or the tow bar.
So in reality they're nearly 2500kg without any other mods.
Wouldn't surprise me if that the towed Prado is closer to 3t than 2.5t.
Agreed, I prefer to give benefit of the doubt. Who knows what was inside too. Tools, gear, drawers...
For sale, 2018 Prado, one lady owner, highway kays, only used to tow a 6x4 to bunnings a few times.
I have to ask, what is the point of a car trailer that is limited to a payload of 1200kgs? Other than very old cars, nothing would fit within that limit now.
Fair point. Back in the day many cars were lighter and would fit. Now only the smallest cars will be 1200 and under. The limit of 2000kg unbraked has not changed and that is what had driven the payload as 2000 - 800 tare is 1200 payload.
750kg max unbralked trailer GTM.. 2000kg trai.er weigbt is where breakaway brakes are required now. They aren't a lot of use when the wheels point to the sky- broken breakaway brakes are not a lot of use.
Yes there is little to no point, for such a light trailer, as a sedan these days weight 1600kg or more.
For large vehicles, truck or truck and trailer are the real option - a LR Truck with a 6000kg GTM trailer can do this no problems... If the real cost of bad transport options was more obvious, a tilt tray may become the cheaper option (are there any hire options for an MR tilt tray?? - private use, otherwise it needs tow permits/reg, and the driver a tow license).
But it's got a big prado sign on the side of the tow car which would make it possible.
When towing a car on a trailer, if i cant keep it back on the trailer to keep it over the axles as much as possible, I will load them rear first and see how that looks.
The front axle is within weight limits. It is dangerous despite being so.
@@L2SFBC yeah i put that bit of the comment in half way through and then noticed you did address it. So I had removed my bit about the front axle before seeing your reply! I shouldn't jump the gun!
Ha ha, probably the old Cracked Piston, too poor buggers 😮
- haha, I came to your channel today to ask a trailer related question - another interesting one for a video idea maybe. - I hope this is a little on topic..
Terrible overloading on a passenger vehicle's rear end is not a great thing to see..
- You are more experienced than many in securing cars on trailers- ALL car trailers SHOULD be equipped - especially if rented (duty of care) - with wheel straps - preferably - heavy duty load rail ??E-Track - on the deck plates.
FUTURE VIDEO IDEAS.... (
Effect of Trailer Drawbar length on stability.
- The "10%" drawbar loading" - for a typical PIG trailer, does not take into account Moment arms.
(Not a question, nor a rule, you misunderstood, I don't need to know, but there is some educational material to explore.)
DISCUSSION
ie. Taking into account the moments for different dimensions: trailer box placement - assuming uniform loading for bulk materials), drawbar length, vehicle mass distribution ( Vehicle CG, Passenger and payload CG) wheelbase and Towbar overhang...
To achieve the typical 10% "tongue weight" (on the ball) the box trailer will be loaded around 20-30$ of the allowed payload weight on or adjacent to the leading edge of the box. Longer drawbars lessen the force on the ball, while not affecting the actual trailer weight distribution, ?? effects on dynamic stability in the treadmill model??
GENERAL MISUNDERSTANDINGS???
Noting: IF a vehicle can be loaded to near GVM, and then tow a 3000kg trailer ...
...(not heavier than the towing vehicles actual mass - not a GVM/GCM/GTM/ATM/... thing - as with heavy trucking, the actual load distribution matters, as is noted in reference to heavy rigid vehicles towing dog or pig trailers -GCM under 43000kg, without an Engineering Assessment / Study of the specific combination -.of the light and heavy trucking weight distribution - in combination trucks the lightest trailer should be last (and dollys really should be loaded the same as the tail)..
... Reduced Towball weight through the effect of a longer drawbar restoring vehicle dynamic conditions to "controllable" under most forseeable conditions.
( NHVR - NHV Mass and Dimension limits page4: "The maximum GML for a combination is 42.5 tonnes unless operating under a notice permit or specific scheme. ͧ CML heavy vehicles must be accredited under the NHVAS. ͧ HML heavy vehicles must be fitted with road friendly suspension and accredited under the NHVAS.")
Yes, there is no fixed definition of the ideal towball mass as it is very dependent on a lot of factors, like "what's the best tyre pressure". What is your specific question?
@@L2SFBC thanks for responding. Have a really great day..
Nb. There was no question more a statement for future exploration.
(We now most people don't do maths, in the real world, more wing it and see..)
Saw a baby suv with towbar ripped out of boot floor , they had tried to tow a 6x4 trailer full of pavers
😂 🙃
Omg, accident pending for sure.
50/50 is perfect, if you're talking about performance driving. A lot more comes into it, but on balance that's ideal for many reasons.
Why do you say that?
@@L2SFBC the amount of work the tyres do is more even, especially if higher power RWD, so wear rates are more even, tyre temperatures at pace are more even, and much more. It tends to mean lower moment of inertia around the CG too, which translates to better turn in and more agility.
Wow! How can any one with that amount of commons sense be allowed to have a driving license? What are they thinking???
I want to know why you advised against balancing your vehicle on a pyramid???😮😮😮😂😂😂
What has the world come too!? )))));
max weight of an unbraked trailer 750kg.35 years in the transport industry never seen blue tooth brakes overrun brakes are fine up to 3500kg.
Some vehicles are not rated to tow as much as 750kg unbraked. Look up Elecbrakes.
Wouldn't it be better to back the car onto the trailer. The motor weight of the car on the trailer over the dual wheels.
Did you watch all of the video?
Would have used weight distribution bars and travelled around 70 to 80 k's hr
@grouchoglobe . Once you exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle or the GCM of the whole combination it is illegal period , a weight distribution hitch will not make weight magically disappear .
@alby1o1 yes know that. These weights tho are set for towing at Max highway speed. Get a vehicle built prior to These weights laws and you can tow 2.5 times vehicle weight
Really - NFI
"and how it do it right" - English Robert!
oops fixed thanks
We aim to please!
Crikey
Another video discussing something which you’re not remotely qualified to talk about!🙄 I love how when someone who does have the relevant training & qualifications tries to correct u on anything, your reaction is basically, “well, I have a RUclips degree. So I’m right & you’re wrong!”🙄 I look forward to your videos when u start teaching people how to perform surgery! 🤣
Which part of the video was incorrect?
Where have I said that? Nowhere, is the answer. You're upset because you said my video on a 2:1 MA pull was wrong, and I refused to agree with you. My justification was the experiment I showed, not "my RUclips degree".
@Mechengineer321, Was that your car in the video?
😁😁😁😁
@Mechengineer321 Dumb comment of the year award has been decided. Nobody will beat you for the rest of 2025..
You serious mate?
If you think Robert's points here aren't valid, you need to go do some (very basic) learning about physics and probably the vehicle regulations too.