I know it likely wouldn't be optimal, but I would love to run a Creations of Bile list focused around shooting Infantry, basically just making sure you get the +1 BS bonus. Havocs, Obliterators, and Rubrics hitting on 2s could be a lot of fun.
If you are going for an inti infantry shooting squad. IMO Havoks with heavy bolters are better than bolter Rubrics by a long way. The soulreaper cannon is good but it's only damage one. HB's have inbuilt sustained hits one so you can DP for lethals all the time. I say this as someone who owns 30 rubric marines. But Obliterators or Havok Lascannons hitting on twos are good.
@@willlondon4964 True, but don't forget that a full squad of Havocs is 125 points and is only 10 wounds total. A brick of Rubrics is 200 points and is 20 Wounds with a 5+ Invuln, plus they have full wound re-rolls (on objectives) and can get AP increases as well. Realistically I'd probably be running both, since CSM only has a handful of shooting specific Infantry.
I think plague marines are the best cult unit to run, huge amount of guns and close combat, they love all the potential buffs! But yer I love the idea of a shooty inf list built around plague marines, chosen/terminators, oblits, havocs and maybe even raptors as 9 overcharged bs2 plasma shots for 180 isn't bad
@40kDirtbags Very dice dependent, had +1A as a buff so 7 attacks with his ability, got 3 Sustained, and then 6 Devs on the 10 attacks with reroll. Was a heck if a high moment lol!
I tried 20 possessed with it tonight, ended up with +2 move and +1 T, into world eaters they took a beating but took the best part of 2 bricks of exalted 8bound and a squad of zerks and a half between them so nothing to sniff at! Wish they had the 6+++ still
what is your thought on dealing with other meta lists running 5 tanks with an infantry-base detachment like creations of bile? Do you think Abaddon is viable over Bile (or running both) as a vehicle killer unit with some chosen?
Hey just watched that PZ game against Dark Angels (~2 months upload) What do you think about a Havoc team in the castle with x4 (or x9?) Reaper Chain Cannons getting reroll to hit/Nurgle for the 5+ Lethal+Sustain (w/in 6 inches of a Helbrute)? It's probably terrible but just doing some dice rolling it seems like you can put a lot of hurt out within 24", could act as a deterrent to have to play around
Chain cannons are AP0, so unless you know you're fighting low armor ennemies or have a good strat to improve their AP, they won't kill a lot... Or get them to the 2nd floor of a building to enjoy the AP+1 of plunging fire !
@@bobbywatson2737 They get Lethal Wounds (5+ from Nurgle) from the Dark Pact and Sustained from the Helbrute, rerolling Hit from the Abby castle. Assuming all 4 Chain Cannon of a Havoc squad shoot within 24", you're getting 32 shots rerolling Hit on a 3+, Lethals and Sustained on a 5+. That works out to 32*0.3 + reroll miss 10*0.3 = ~13 Lethal Wounds on average, plus in the same shooting you get the same Sustained Hits (13) + 32*0.3 = ~23-24 Wound Rolls.
It’s how I understand it, or for example we could take wardogs and nurglings and give them the 2 creations of bile buffs and use detachment strats on them. Which feels OP. When I run allied units in renegade raiders they don’t get the army rule buffs
I’ve just seen plague marines gain the heretic astartes keyword! So they get it all! Rubrics and zerks do too. That’s cool. Good to know :) They get detachment rules but not the army rules for CSM (dark pacts) Sorry I questioned the plagues!
They can go out turn one on an objective with enough ac. That it can not be easily taken away. So your opponent must commit a decent amount to take the objective back or kill them. By doing this they may now move units within advance and charge range of your more powerful units.
Not to speak for the High Dirtbag but he has melta guns and lascannons in all the legionnaire squads which will help. I would also think lethal hit dark pacts on everything all the time.
Honestly, if you just do Lethal Hits for your Dark Pact you can turn any CSM melee Infantry squad into a pretty effective anti-vehicle unit. A brick of Chosen, for example, if you take the the +1 attacks mutation, will have 30 Accursed weapon attacks, 12 paired Accursed Weapon attacks (with wound re-rolls), and 10 Power Fist attacks. You can easily wind up with our opponent having to save 20+ attacks at -2 AP, which means they'll usually have a 4+ save, and half those attacks will go through.
You can't charge out of a Rhino if it has moved that turn. Land Raiders have an ability that lets you do that, and some factions/detachments have strategems that allow it.
Yeah it would go: Chosen disembark, move and advance, then the rhino moves, then the chosen charge, they have to disembark before the rhino moves to be eligible to move/charge
70 legionaries, that's a lot of trim
@@nickwilson2097 I had 90
@@40kDirtbags here I am with 5 because I don't want to paint more trim before LVO
@nickwilson2097 lol this detachment might be the best way to run that many
that's such an ignorant thing to say
I know it likely wouldn't be optimal, but I would love to run a Creations of Bile list focused around shooting Infantry, basically just making sure you get the +1 BS bonus. Havocs, Obliterators, and Rubrics hitting on 2s could be a lot of fun.
If you are going for an inti infantry shooting squad.
IMO Havoks with heavy bolters are better than bolter Rubrics by a long way.
The soulreaper cannon is good but it's only damage one.
HB's have inbuilt sustained hits one so you can DP for lethals all the time.
I say this as someone who owns 30 rubric marines.
But Obliterators or Havok Lascannons hitting on twos are good.
@@willlondon4964 True, but don't forget that a full squad of Havocs is 125 points and is only 10 wounds total. A brick of Rubrics is 200 points and is 20 Wounds with a 5+ Invuln, plus they have full wound re-rolls (on objectives) and can get AP increases as well.
Realistically I'd probably be running both, since CSM only has a handful of shooting specific Infantry.
I think plague marines are the best cult unit to run, huge amount of guns and close combat, they love all the potential buffs! But yer I love the idea of a shooty inf list built around plague marines, chosen/terminators, oblits, havocs and maybe even raptors as 9 overcharged bs2 plasma shots for 180 isn't bad
I love havoks in renegade raiders the chaincannons with 8 shots are awesome when you can add some ap
Try skewing heavy on Terminators with Sorc for shooting. They do surprising damage with Lethal combi-bolters and the Cannon.
My first game, I had the Prime Test Subject Lord with 5 Legios, dropped 24 DevWounds onto a Haruspex on an objective. He goes *ham.*
@@Xynth25 oh God you monster
@40kDirtbags Very dice dependent, had +1A as a buff so 7 attacks with his ability, got 3 Sustained, and then 6 Devs on the 10 attacks with reroll. Was a heck if a high moment lol!
@Xynth25 hahahahaha
Any thoughts on raptors in this detachment?
warp talons seem better. but yes raptors could be great action munkeys that can hit harder
I tried 20 possessed with it tonight, ended up with +2 move and +1 T, into world eaters they took a beating but took the best part of 2 bricks of exalted 8bound and a squad of zerks and a half between them so nothing to sniff at! Wish they had the 6+++ still
what is your thought on dealing with other meta lists running 5 tanks with an infantry-base detachment like creations of bile? Do you think Abaddon is viable over Bile (or running both) as a vehicle killer unit with some chosen?
@@cigs8324 I think it is good into the meta currently
Hey just watched that PZ game against Dark Angels (~2 months upload)
What do you think about a Havoc team in the castle with x4 (or x9?) Reaper Chain Cannons getting reroll to hit/Nurgle for the 5+ Lethal+Sustain (w/in 6 inches of a Helbrute)?
It's probably terrible but just doing some dice rolling it seems like you can put a lot of hurt out within 24", could act as a deterrent to have to play around
Chain cannons are AP0, so unless you know you're fighting low armor ennemies or have a good strat to improve their AP, they won't kill a lot...
Or get them to the 2nd floor of a building to enjoy the AP+1 of plunging fire !
@@bobbywatson2737 They get Lethal Wounds (5+ from Nurgle) from the Dark Pact and Sustained from the Helbrute, rerolling Hit from the Abby castle. Assuming all 4 Chain Cannon of a Havoc squad shoot within 24", you're getting 32 shots rerolling Hit on a 3+, Lethals and Sustained on a 5+. That works out to 32*0.3 + reroll miss 10*0.3 = ~13 Lethal Wounds on average, plus in the same shooting you get the same Sustained Hits (13) + 32*0.3 = ~23-24 Wound Rolls.
Would Khorne berserkers not be a good pick for this detachment?
@@OhLeham can't dark pact, would rather have legionnaires
You talk about the army buffs and strats on plague marines but they don’t have the heretic astartes keyword so surely those synergies don’t work?
@@richmaidment5489 are you sure?
It’s how I understand it, or for example we could take wardogs and nurglings and give them the 2 creations of bile buffs and use detachment strats on them. Which feels OP.
When I run allied units in renegade raiders they don’t get the army rule buffs
I’ve just seen plague marines gain the heretic astartes keyword! So they get it all! Rubrics and zerks do too.
That’s cool.
Good to know :)
They get detachment rules but not the army rules for CSM (dark pacts)
Sorry I questioned the plagues!
@richmaidment5489 check the part in the codex for adding units for CSM
@richmaidment5489 no dark pacts but the detachment buffs and strats
Hi!
Can you please in detail explain how those two war dogs are used? I didn’t get about sling and bait.
They can go out turn one on an objective with enough ac. That it can not be easily taken away. So your opponent must commit a decent amount to take the objective back or kill them.
By doing this they may now move units within advance and charge range of your more powerful units.
@jeremiegartner464 thanks !
N1 lists like always. But dont we have a little bit of an vihicle meta? How do you deal with it, with just legionär bodys?
Not to speak for the High Dirtbag but he has melta guns and lascannons in all the legionnaire squads which will help. I would also think lethal hit dark pacts on everything all the time.
Honestly, if you just do Lethal Hits for your Dark Pact you can turn any CSM melee Infantry squad into a pretty effective anti-vehicle unit.
A brick of Chosen, for example, if you take the the +1 attacks mutation, will have 30 Accursed weapon attacks, 12 paired Accursed Weapon attacks (with wound re-rolls), and 10 Power Fist attacks. You can easily wind up with our opponent having to save 20+ attacks at -2 AP, which means they'll usually have a 4+ save, and half those attacks will go through.
@@loganmadmeat7096 lethals
So the same command phase… the rhino moves, the chosen exit, advance and charge?
@@ScottoTalbot-hl3uk no you need to get out before the rino moves
You can't charge out of a Rhino if it has moved that turn. Land Raiders have an ability that lets you do that, and some factions/detachments have strategems that allow it.
Yeah it would go: Chosen disembark, move and advance, then the rhino moves, then the chosen charge, they have to disembark before the rhino moves to be eligible to move/charge