The End of an Era. The Buchardt Finale
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2022
- Our fans hate us now... At least it is all over now.
Watch the rest of the Buchardt fiasco series here:
Part 1: • Are these REALLY worth...
Part 2: • Were we wrong? Buchard...
Part 3: • Adrian buys a new pair...
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Audio Excellence Inc. is a high end audio/video store in Markham, Ontario, Canada, a suburb of Toronto. We've been in business since 1991.
Check out our interviews with designers and audio luminaries like Daryl Wilson of Wilson Audio, Paul McGowan of PS Audio, Paolo Tezzon of Sonus faber, Wendell Diller of Magnepan, John Atkinson of Stereophile, Dan D'Agostino of D'Agostino Master Audio Systems, Nelson Pass of Pass Labs and others.
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Развлечения
Thank you so much for given them another run. Of course it's not the outcome I would have hoped for, but hey! You can't win everyone's hearts. Maybe our next speaker might be more to your taste, who knows 😉
I think the A500 is in another class altogether, and the comments in this video wouldn't make sense in that case. I also think that you should not make the Purifi version a limited edition, and you should make it a permanent option. I also find that there is a missed opportunity in the market with all-digital speakers, whereby audiophiles (for good or bad reasons) want to control what DAC they use, and hence would love to use an analogue powered speaker with which they can use their DAC. There's a couple of Genelecs left and some Focal that can do that... but you should have that option as well. Furthermore, if you look at what KEF did with the LS-60, is they left a huge gap between the that and the LS-50 ; something in the middle (an "LS-55"') - and I believe that with the Purifi version of the A500, you're not far. Today, I'd couple those with the new KEF subwoofer, but you should consider doing a sub and selling that as a optional bundle.
@@phpn99 we will see where the purifi a500s take us, they have for sure been very popular and we would create another batch in a new custom finish.
You can use your own dacs on the a500 if they bring a flavor you like. But having a powered speaker without dac and DSP do not really make much sense to me, that would completely remove all the advantages that DSP brings.
@@madsbuchardt7845 Wow! Thats the spirit. Speaks volumes about you too
I love my A500. Beautiful sound and a solid value.
Class.
I am a Burchardt S400 MkII owner and have been for about 6 months. I respect the years of experience that each of you brings to the audiophile community. Having viewed all three videos, I'm astonished at the level of melodrama that this has escalated to. The Buchardt speaker company has taken on this cult-like following with Mads Buchardt being the "guy next door" type of owner. Heck, I'll even admit that I drank the cool-aid. In your comments, you do make some valid points about the S400 MkII that I agree with. For instance, these speakers sound better when you put some energy behind them. No better example of this than playing Pink Floyd's "The Wall". Those cymbal hits become far more dynamic and I can hear more air around them when the volume is turned up. With regards to the height of the stands, you have piqued my curiosity. Wondering how I can test this without going out and buying 28" stands (my wife would just love that). But the bottom line, overall I very much enjoy these speakers!! No, they are not Sonus Fabers or Wilson Audio or even the Martin Logans that I had previously to the Buchardts. But isn't that the joy of this hobby that we all love? The pursuit of discovering a better listening experience by constantly changing things up.
Turn them upside down for testing the height
Yes, turn them upside down or add matching hardback books to see if you like that. I have mine on 32 inch stands but I’m only about 6 feet away from them.
As long as you enjoy them and they are "musical" to you, that's all that matters.
My s400 series 1 sound very good, but IMO they are overpriced for what they do. I hate the KEF 50's ... too bright, the r3 is okay but also thin sounding to me.
Being an owner of the s400 mkii, I have to say that speaker placement really makes a big difference with these units. To my ear, they need to be spread out so I have them about 3' from the wall, 10' apart from each other and I sit about 8 feet away. In this scenario, they image nicely and with my Doge 10 mk3 amp, I get a nice 3D sound stage. One thing that I don't seem to get from them is the dynamics at the top end. I would be curious to hear what you guys prefer in that same price range.
I totally agree. I have mine at 6 feet apart on 28 inch stands and they sound fantastic.
Spot on in terms of placement, took me months to dial in, small adjustments until they sounded just right. What I'm not sure of is your commitment about the dynamics at the top end?
@@buckethead84 Maybe it's my 64 year old ears failing me but I seem to be missing that sparkle on the top end that I distinctly remember hearing from the music I listened to back in the 70s & 80s. I have repurchased many of those albums, either in CD format or hi-res files and I am definitely not hearing the details in the higher frequencies that I heard back in the day. Of course, it was a different time and different equipment back then. I too took many months of tweaking the placement of the speakers after hearing Steve Guttenberg preach over and over about experimenting with speaker location and I seem to have found the sweet spot in my listening room.
@@gregglowery3452 What speaker cable are you using?
@@vilipmak3973 I actually did a DIY cable after watching a video from Tharbamar. This consists of Mogami W3104 cable. The whole project was around $200 so I figured I'd give it a shot. I noticed a bit more clarity in the midrange with these cables.
I appreciate this deep dive. As a casual observer who lacks the $$$/space for a true audiophile system, it helps to get perspective from people who have heard the very best equipment and see what they think about something reviewers have raved about.
I just want to say that I really like what you all of you guys do here. Especially Vilip though! Not only is he extremely experienced, knowledgeable and informative but he can be hilarious at times! I love hearing his take on gear too, and it feels like he's just giving you his thoughts without sugar coating it. It's pretty funny how up in arms so many people were because you guys didn't love the Buchardt's, lol. I guess the bright side is they hold your opinions very high regard! Keep up the great work fellas, you're appreciated!
Thank You! Those are very kind words and I really appreciate it.
How much is the other speaker that you were using as reference in the theater room? Is it in the same price range as s400?
Yes I tried 2 different pairs in a similar range. But always note that what I like may not be what you like
It's incredible how many amazing speakers there are to choose from. I don't think there is a company that makes a genuinely bad speaker these days. Even cheap speakers for a few hundred dollars can be stunning. "Better" is always the enemy of the excellent. I think the Buchardt is a special speaker. I can't put my finger on why exactly. I think what it can do with bass - try some epic contemporary soundtracks - is different and truly impressive compared to my reference floorstanders that cost three times as much. Also when played with a bit of volume the detail is captivating to me. It's clean and fresh and fun. Maybe youthful. Like a fine dining experience at a modern restauant. Mine are positioned on top of 40 inches and turned upside down, powered by a Yamaha A-S2200.
maybe no bad speaker but bad amplification YES
Hey Ashley, what soundtracks do you like best on these?
This video totally changed the level of trust I have for this channel.
Yup
Yes, my too.
So guys what speakers do you suggest instead of buchardt with better wider sound stage?
Thanks for the follow-up; in short all of you pretty much didn’t change your impressions of them. Fair enough. It’s no secret that they need to be cranked up a bit to get them going, near-field is not recommended, and stand height matters. Another reviewer (ASR) said they measured better when the tweeter is at ear level as opposed to the recommendation of the ear be in the middle, and that is a challenge in a small room where the speaker tilt doesn’t help very much. I have mine on 32 inch stands and flipped tweeter-up to get the tweeter ear level. I too bring out Krall’s live album; the first 20 seconds of “I Love Being Here With You” tells me all I need to know about the system I’m listening on.
I personally find more complex "spectrally dense" music the most revealing of a speaker's performance. Tool's latest album is a great showcase.
First of all, I appreciate your channel and respect your guys' opinions. I enjoy watching your videos. That said, could it be that your guys' high-end experience is causing a bias? For example, are the Elac UBR62, Polk R200, Kef R3 all mediocre speakers, in your opinion? In a recent video (about recommended gear under $2500) you guys found it very difficult to find speakers that you would recommend (around $2500). There was only the LRS and then a much higher priced Sonus Faber near $3K that was mentioned. So in all honesty, your guys' opinion on the buchardt s400 mkii certainly makes sense if you guys truly don't recommend any speakers under $2500. Correct?
@@sean_heisler They recommended the Sonetto 1 ($1800 usd) or Lumina 3 ($2200 usd) in that video. I think what they are really trying to say is... the buchardt s400 mkii is what it is for the money.. That leaves the viewer to interpret that however they want to.
Yea we can't trust their judgment on speakers that are 2500 and below. If u look at there channel they only view and listen to sonus faber and Wilson audio,they are highly bias.
Hi, while it is certainly hard to remove our experience with "better" and more expensive speakers, we use this experience and knowledge to help our clients when they are looking for more affordable gear. We do carry speakers in the same price range, but we left them out of the direct comparison simply to not make it a video slamming the Buchardt. In this video, I mentioned that I listened to speakers in similar price range. You can check our website to figure out which I was referring to. Again, I was trying my best to be objective
@@adrianlow2114 Thanks for the reply, Adrian. Although mentioning a speaker at a lower price point that compares to or sounds better than the Buchardt may seem like bashing on the S400 mkii, I think that’s what most people were wanting- a frame of reference.
For instance, if you guys mentioned speaker “X” and said that it is a much better speaker at the same or lower price point, most people would then compare that with what their experience says about speaker “X” or what other reviewers have had to say about it.
I think there was nothing wrong with how you guys expressed yourselves and your opinions about the Buchardts. However, I think most people saw your stance as “What the hell are all these reviewers talking about? These speakers are a waste of money.” Without any sort of reference point, I think that kind of led folks into assuming what they wanted about AEC.
At the end of the day, I respect your opinions and do trust your reviews/evaluations. Keep up the good work!
And thanks for giving back to charities. Cheers!
I think your evaluation is quite fair. Your integrity is sincerely appreciated.
Kudos for doing four videos on this speaker, but there’s a few issues here that makes it somewhat confusing.
1. @Vilip, you said that the imaging became more blurry in the home theater, because it’s more damped/dead. Imaging is largely perceived from correct phase/timing in the presence and
treble region. Its well known in acoustics that damping reflections improves imaging, especially the phantom center, because it removes time smearing and comb filtering. (Even though it might deaden the room too much). Could you clarify what you mean by imaging and how it became worse by removing reflections?
2. You said the “vertical dispersion improved” on taller stands. But normally, a speakers dispersion can’t change from moving it around. Dispersion is inherent to the speaker and is always the same. Did you mean lobing? Or just that the frequency response became more linear when the tweeter was no longer below your ears?
3. In the first video you said that “the waveguide makes certain frequencies more prominent, and that may be why you hear glare”. Again, normally a waveguide works the opposite way by evening out dispersion and enhancing tweeter sensitivity across a wider band, resulting in smooth, even sounding treble on- and off-axis. Glare is usually from none-guided tweeters that behave irregularly at the bottom of their pass band, and/or have irregular dispersion creating uneven reflections.
What type of glare did you refer to?
4. I know it wasn’t your own comment, but the passive radiator “slap against the back wall”-thing is also confusing. The radiator is like a port, so tuned to a particular bass frequency. As you know, bass is omnidirectional, and doesn’t behave like higher frequencies, that slap against things and reflects. Bass is behaves like large pressure displacement - often larger than the room so it folds back on itself and we get modes and pressure build-up and cancellation in specific areas. It doesn’t make sense to talk about bass “slapping” against a glass wall.
Just hoping to clear some stuff up for us viewers 🙂. Anyway, thanks for your open approach and giving your opinions 👍
It sounds like you have a lot of knowledge, but your average buyer is just going to plop these down and start listening. These speakers are way over priced. If they were half the price we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Some of the reviewers are flat out being dishonest. There in lie's the problem.
The inconsistencies paint 🎨 the true picture; a disingenuous review.
@@davewin1792Ok, so why would they give technical arguments, if subjective opinions is what they’re interested in? Better to just call it what it is. Vilip seems very confused about technical stuff. It makes me worried about what kind of advice customers and viewers receive.
But let’s give him a chance to clarify :) maybe it’s just a few misunderstandings.
Disclaimer: I don’t own the S400.
@@SimonNathanael I'm sure they know all this stuff like the back of their hand.
@@AM-vo3sy Watch some of their other video's. Vilip knows his stuff, let me tell you.
Thanks for a great video again guys. And for not giving in after pressure, and being honest. Not like Jay who seems a bit scared of that fellow in the woods in Texas, and feel pressured even to to go down in the the woods and visit, sad! Now that's another story, somebody should come to his rescue, I like Jay and his thing a lot. Also of course, having listened to the Buhardt speaker, which is a good speaker by the way, but cannot compete with the big guys and main stream like Sonus Faber, Focal, Dynaudio, Audiovector, the British BBC brands, KEF and many others, but of course those speaker are more expensive, but again not among the top extreme expensive. The Buhardt is a good quality rather inexpensive speaker, but you want to take a step up, if you spend several hours a day in front of your system.........
Gentlemen, Critical Listening followed by Critical Thinking and Thoughtful Commentary is why I spend time here. It is important to take a firm position after your analysis. Expressing A Point of View based on organized principals is your raison d'être of this RUclips Channel. Stand your ground - no apologies necessary! There is far too much non-sense and wishy-washy product and commentary in audio as it is.
I've been listening to the S400 MK2 since we have a pair for SpeakerFest in Fountain Hills, Arizona this week. I have them on 30 inch stands about 4.5 ft from the front wall. Tonality seemed a little off, so I pulled out my UMIK-2 to see what was going on. I saw excellent response and consistency between the speakers above 1 kHz. However, there was excess output (in my room) from 120 to 700 or so Hz, making vocals sound muddy. I used Acourate from AudioVero to build room correction filters and deal with these peaks in the lower mids. In the process, I encountered the highest ICCC value I've seen in this room: 93.2% for Inter-Channal Cross Correlation...an indication of matching quality between the speakers. After addressing room/speaker issues below 1 kHz, had perceptually flat response down to 23 Hz (-3 dB). Soundstage was deep, extending beyond the front wall. I commented numerous times about how well dynamic swings are rendered once the volume is up a bit (to at least 80 dB, C-weighted, slow integration). Audio Club members who have come by to hear them said they can't believe so much sound is coming from those two small-ish stand-mounts. They have put a huge smile on my face with modest electronics: Orchard Audio GaN monoblocks, Topping Pre90 analog preamp, and Gustard X16 DAC.
If they don't initially impress, get them on taller stands (30 inches), place them six feet apart, seven feet from ear to tweeter (for the right amount of bass coupling), and toe therm in until you can just barely see a sliver of the side of each speaker. If needed for the room, tamp down the lower mids with some EQ and get average playback levels up to the high 70's or low 80's. Everyone who has heard this setup has been blown away.
Short story. Did similar with I150 and the speakers really came to their own. Room dampening or EQ brings out the good stuff 👍
There are products that perform really well regardless of price for audiophile’s, and other products perform really well regardless of the price for people who listen to music. What i mean by that is a lot of people will settle for the first thing that they consider important or at least think it is , example: playing loud , as soon as they see a speaker slightly bigger than normal they presume that it’s principal quality is it’s capability to play loud. A lot of uneducated buyers and youtube is confusing more and more these people that need sincere opinions on what’s out there. You guys did a great job .
I think you should continue with this trend in your videos … do your review own reviews of speakers that have received positive feedback from Jay Iyagi, Steve Guttenberg, Zero Fidelity, Andrew Robinson, Thomas and Stereo, New Record Day etc… KEF R3, the denafrips Terminator, KLH model 5, KEF Reference 1 just to name a few… it will be more interesting… more views … more money to be matched for charity… What say you guys???
I tried the klh model 5 amd was very underwhelmed.
Yes. I have been thinking about that. Why not piss everyone off? I'm not prejudiced!!
@@adrianlow2114 And you should not be defensive when commentators accuse all of you for being biased … I mean you are a dealer who decided all of a sudden to review a Brand you don’t sell. But seriously why start and stop 🛑 with the Buchardt’s … if you decide to continue with this trend it will be helpful for you to recommend or at least compare what you are reviewing to a brand you would rather recommend instead (even if it’s something you sell in your store ) . It will more helpful.
@@buttonman1831 i hope you were able to return those
@@delvalle9256 I think that you make some good points. If we do review products we don't carry, we promise that we will say what we hear, as we always do. While we have lots of experience with higher priced items as that is what we specialize in, we don't get to hear as many of the more affordable products, especially the items that are being sold direct to end users. I might have to buy a few competing ones (e.g. DACs) and do a shoot out. Since we don't really carry DACs, for example, under $1,000, this would rule out any concern that we are biased, and still perhaps give viewers some benefit of our views and experience
I was just wondering--is there any reason for insisting on using Hegel despite the manufacturer and a few owners not recommending it? Some mentioned more synergistic pairings like Naim.
I don't own this speaker but I'm considering it for an office setup.
We used 4 different sets of electronics. Started with Hegel simply because we know it well. We didn't know that some people have categorically ruled that Hegel is not a good match. And I'm not at all sure that's the case. Ultimately you have to hear for yourself
@@adrianlow2114 Thanks Adrian, and appreciate all the effort that you guys put in for this review. Cheers
McIntosh doesn't seem to be the right kind of amp for these, either.
Your on point. Tried with Hegel 190 and it was a very bad match. So don't use them with Hegel 👍. Vincent 237mk2, class A amps, Advance Paris A10, Buchardt I150(use the room EQ) is a few alternatives that sounded good with them. I really want to test black ice F35 v2 with them. Should be a great match.
This is what it's all about. Unbiased real opinions. A lot of HiFi reviews are best this or best that. Performance that beats 10x times more expensive gear yada..yada. Keep it up gents! I've grown a bit numb with most reviewers on YT and this format is a great deal of reality shot in the arm. At the same time you're ensuring that it's done respectfully. Kudos!
I am not as experienced as these guys but I have owned dozens of high end speakers and amplifiers. One thing I have learned, do not trust online reviews. First off, I don't believe many of these so called audio experts are experts at all. Andrew Robinson claimed the Crown XLS 2502 was "the best power amp" in one of his videos. I ordered one to try it and what a huge disappointment. That thing had a glassy harsh midrange I could not correct, absolute garbage. I had a 30 WPC Rotel power amp that I paid 300 dollars for that sounded better in every single way. I can name countless examples where I have run into this exact same situation. The guys on this channel are the only opinions I trust.
Andrew is more of a "lifestyle" reviewer. He is more concerned about how the morning sun shines off his speaker and compliments his cafe mocha than if the saxophone recording sounds realistic.
Yeah, Andrew Robinson doesn’t really influence me. I got the Crown as well and it sounded just like what it is - a PA amp. The hiss was incredible.
Might be a noob question but isn’t the speaker stand height dependent on the listening seat height?
Exactly. Another technical issue. In service of customers and viewers, they should have explained this.
Yes; in my smallish room 32 inches is not high enough for my sitting position.
Yes sometimes it is. In the first room, the chair has a standard sofa height so bookshelf speakers that we have typically work well with standard 24" stands. However Buchardt arranges the tweeter below the midrange / woofer , so the tweeter is s below the ears in our case. So we tried a 28" stand which helped with the low image height. Keep in mind, however, that raising the speaker by 4" made a significant change which may mean the tweeter seems to be very sensitive to vertical dispersion. Or I'm just old and can't hear shit anymore
Placement, room dampening and/or room EQ. This isn't new stuff for most audiophiles and it can change how things sound. + Maybe listen to tips about gear matching. Ok like don't use Hegel with bucks
The Buchart S400 was matched with a tube power amp, with very musical sound; some people may not agree with me, but it was my experience.
When I was young, I pursued accurate, tight, detailed sound; now, I prefer the musical sound.
It may not be necessary to be accurate.
They shine with class A power
Right. Agreed. What is accurate anyways?
@@vilipmak3973 that would be accurate to the input signal. Think of speakers like an I/O device.
I love the Bucharest S 400s with a 60 watt Copland hybrid integrated. The sound is natural and rich and totally enjoyable. If an audiophile is someone who has to have the last ounce of detail then the speakers are more important than the flow of the music. The buchardts are above all else-- musical.
Been waiting for this
I have been all "Around the Block", after all of that I have landed on Klipsch, and that's it. Thanks for the video.
I like reggae music. What speakers would you recommend for that? I currently have a MC462 McIntosh amp.
Start with 18" woofers, slightly under damped for the rolling bass.
Well, if you have to ask… vintage JBLs!
Thanks for taking the time, again. I think we've learned a) don't sit above tweeter level! b) you guys don't seem to prefer speakers with a flat frequency response and/or controlled directivity. I say that based on your analysis here and based on your previous comments on speakers developed post-NRC or based on CTA-2034 criteria. Perhaps you like a speaker to add a little spice...it may not be accurate, but you've become accustomed to that, and if that is your reference, then these won't be for you.
Its all good. Maybe since Jay and a lot of people who have enjoyed them have younger ears or just have a taste for potentially louder or more tipped up recorded music, and they like that this speaker is really laid back.
This is not a "laid back" speaker unless your frame of reference is Klipsch! Think of enjoyment plotted on a chart over time. More energetic speakers may start off rating highly, but drop off the more you listen. A neutral speaker like the S400 MKII immediately strikes you as natural and has a higher enjoyment level hours in because they haven't attacked your eardrums 😄
Proper positioning. Notice the difference mentioned with the stands. Room dampening. Sound EQ. That + the others didn't use Hegel amps... Anyhow they did another run and I will give them props for that. However it would been great if they followed some tips they where given before they redid this.
What was the other speaker that you listened to?
Mad respect for following through on this as you have. Interesting but don’t feel you have to do this whenever you don’t like something.
Comend you in following this through and not giving in to save yourselves. Can't believe how so many rave reviews there is on both the Buchardt 400's yet there seems concerns. The 400 mk II were on my short list of speakers to consider even though I believe size maters. Have now gone and bought the Magnepan LRS with GR Research upgrade kit to get closer to OB's.
What happens if you lower sitting position 4 inches with 24 inches stand? My listening chair height is adjustable so can dial in optimal height.
Our chair is standard sofa height
Tweeter at ear level is your goal. But lower position might bring reflections. Try adjusting height with books too find your sweet spot. Might be worth getting different stands 😊
the video wasn't to long it was interesting and fun I am very impressed that you didn't back off that you still were mostly negative on them. it also came off as an attempt to be honest which is all anyone can ask the funny thing is I didn't expect anything less from you I expected honesty and that's what we got good job guys I WAS INTERESTED IN them them but not anymore though z reviews says there floor standing active speakers were the best he has heard up to 20 grand range which is amazing as they were 6000 dollar speakers I am very curious to hear your review of those but I don't expect you to review them. anyway thanks for the extra effort you gave this review mad respect and thank you
If you put a good amp like a 4 ohm 250w Ncore behind these, they will get close, especially if you have EQ available and can adjust the bass to taste.
I think you gave them more than a fair listening. I had the mki’s and now the mkii’s and they’re the best speakers I’ve had so far, but I’ve definitely not heard everything and I might find something that suits me better. Can’t get good depth from them nor an image that spreads beyond the speakers. I appreciate comparisons between like speakers so I don’t mind if the comparisons are explained. I like to hear what you heard, what you didn’t hear, what setup/equipment worked better or didn’t (or had no effect), plus if more expensive equipment made a difference.
If you hold the play button on the Hegel remote you can go to settings and see version with model I think.
Hi. How would you rate the SF Lumina 2’s against these Buchardts?
We don't.
I have owned this speakers for a bit over 4 months. Stand height is critical. I have them placed 6 feet apart on 28 inch stands in a treated room. They sound fantastic in my setting. I drive them with a high current parasound amp rated at 315 watts/ channel@4 ohms. It's a smooth sounding apeaker and as you have confirmed, it doe not flood you with details; it just releases the music without highlighting any parts,(balanced) making it possible for long listening joy; free of fatigue. I have three other speakers to compare and I must say, the smoothness and musicality is better than the other speakers I own. Their balanced trait makes them suitable for different genres of music. I never heard bass layering reproduced as well as I hear with the Buchardts ! The image is spot on and human voicing is very very accurate. If you have owned Dynaudio speakears, then the Buchardts may sound familiar. I happen to like the Dynaudio sound. I can appreciate how such a review can be challenging on the business end but, I enjoyed it. Thank you.
Hello,
I am curious to your comment about stand height. Why is it so critical with this speaker?
I currently have the MKII on 24” stands but I’m in the market for a new set of stands so I’m debating between 24” and 28”.
Curious about your thoughts. Thanks!
@@ChaiBearProductions I had them on 24 inch stands and they sounded too bright for me (possible some floor reflections) As I said I now have them on 28s and they sound amazing.
@@Morido-1 Ok I see. I personally don’t find them bright on my 24in stands because my room is very damped I think is the reason. I’ll stick with 24 for now
Thanks!
My bare hardwood floors are to blame.
@@ChaiBearProductions your vertical position in relation with the speakers is also a factor. So if the stands are shorter, but you also sit lower, you compensate
Appreciate the thorough review and honest opinions! Great work
What I do not understand is that when some floorstanding speakers claim it can play down to 26-28Hz but in reality you don't hear that bass. I noticed it is better to have bookshelf speakers combined with sub and if the sub claims 26 Hz it certainly reaches that low level.
I can’t help but think that Buchardt’s direct to consumer sales and distribution model enters into your feelings about the loudspeaker.
The specifically cited this as a problem with the speaker, that the buyer doesn't get their learned advice, and has to install it at home alone and decide for themselves how it sounds.
Any explanation as to why the tweeter is on the bottom , seems counter intuitive if you have to put it on a taller stand to get improved sound
Just flip the speaker on its head LOL
Don't know the answer. The speakers are designed that way
I just find it amusing that people are influenced into purchasing another set of pricey stands because the tweeter is at the bottom. It's free and effortless to just flip the cabinets upside down.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q that angles the speaker drivers toward the floor. Only do so if they are up pretty high.
@@ericfranke1637 Gosh darn! I'm never, ever gonna buy the Buchardts then. Just get Apertura speakers or anything else. 2k€ is a lot for bookshelf speakers.
Understandably you’re not going to purchase the more higher end active version. The downloadable tuning choices may have swayed your opinions
the active version is not higher end, it's more expensive because it's active.
They have used better components in them. They have room EQ. Optimized amp section that fits the speakers. So yes they are in fact higher end products..
As an S400 MK1 owner who loves the speaker - I totally agree with the assessment that it does not come alive until you crank up the volume. The volume does not have to be party - db levels, but it does need some volume. I have heard much better speakers for low level listening. Good on you guys for having another listen. Totally interested to know what the "other" speaker was - perhaps it is something other S400 owners can have a listen to - especially to see what we are missing out on!
Class A power works well for me when it comes to low level listening
Yeah that's because of the flat frequency response. These really benefit from Dynamic EQ! With it they are indeed giant killers.
Thanks for sharing your honest opinions. As far as those commenters who say you are prejudiced against these speakers because you don't sell them, do you believe that other reviewers are not being paid for their reviews? This whole YT review thing raises doubts in my mind about reviewer remuneration. Same with magazines.
Thanks for so much entertainment.
I don't honestly know if others are paid for the Buchardt videos. I DO know that payment for some videos have occurred, directly confirmed by the suppliers who gave the products. Payment can be in the form of keeping the product or funds.
@@adrianlow2114 Imo keeping the product is a form of payment and the reviewer should clearly state when this is the case.
Your attitude toward the review(s) speaks volume itself. Thanks for the excellent work and sharing!
I would love to hear your thoughts about the KLH Model 5, maybe that could be the next Pandora's box video :). I personally enjoy those videos, the more diverse opinions the better.
Klh model5 are overrated imo.
That Model 5 was certainly all the rage for awhile. I've never heard them. But I remember seeing another respected reviewer mentioning that he received them for a review and simply had to return them. Apparently they didn't have the sound he was expecting and didn't compare favorably to other(s) he had on hand.
@@xavi-HH-108 I think the new latest and greatest are the Mission 770 according to every other review lol
Did they use any of the Buchardt room correction/DSP potential?
I received my pair of Buchardt S400 MK2 yesterday. Run them by: Pass Labs XA30.8 + Lampizator tube DAC .. even with just 10 hours in use, I decided to send my Dynaudio Evoke 50 on Craigs List :-) looking forward to hearing S400 MK2 after break-in period of around 1 month. So far so good.
Guys, it’s your opinion, no need apologized if it is different than others, I welcome and wish more reviewers like you guys…gives honest and straight opinions, instead all sugar coated and oh…the most common annoying politically correct comment…it is one of the best in its category…so, what’s one of the best? 20% or 90% u consider so called “the best”?
Keep up the good work, don’t give in under the pressure, tell us what you feel! Enough of those politically correct sugar coated opinions! It’s just impossible for all gears sounded great!
It’s OK to give alternative speaker choices generally around the same price point - more dynamic, better depth and imaging, non-flabby bass at about $2600 Canadian?
Golden ear or Monitor audio silver. Both are exceptional value.
@@buttonman1831 Monitor Audio Silver seems to be a good rec (although the Buchardt measures better), but the Goldenear Bookshelf Reference X didn't measure well and has some things going on with their frequency response. I would say Paradigm Founder Series if you want a speaker that has a good, but curved, frequency response, which is what you want at low volume levels. Careful turning a speaker with a U-shaped response up really loud, though, as bass and treble will get overwhelming.
What would have been fascinating is if you'd managed to get Jay back in to listen to them too!
Thank you so much gents. Your attention to all the details about this bookshelf speaker and your ultimate conclusions are certainly appreciated. Personally I have never auditioned them. So that's next on my agenda. Since I prefer towers I really have little reference when listening and comparing bookshelfs. That is my point: always compare, side by side and in the moment to accurately discern differences, strengths and weaknesses. All speakers have them. I have little use for reviewers that have no reference, never do comparative evaluations and try to describe sound quality with ineffective charts and graphs. In fact the videos I have enjoyed the most are the ones where you place one manufacturer's product up against another. No, not the last word for me to make a purchase but very helpful and enlightening. I will continue to watch your videos and thank you for your truthful comments on audio. Keep up the great work!
Regardless of preference, and outcome, I applaud Audio Excellence for doing this much work and followup for a pair of "poorly reviewed" speakers. Good on you AE. My confidence for your love of the hobby has never been higher.
What other speakers do u recoment instead of Buchard to same price ?
Remember a speaker is best after many hours of playing so maybe u should have brought a used pair.
The first video was a pair of used ones. We bought this pair and broke it in for over 150 hours. If you care to, you can watch the entire saga
Lewis' facial expression at 5:29 was priceless!!
By now, I have no doubt that S400ll is not your favorite speakers. Like food choices, everyone has their own favorites. I am wondering what is your favorite bookshelf speakers in general in this price range. I suspect 3 of you may have 3 different choices. Will you be kind to share?
Same price range as the S400 2 and a brand that they sell… that would be interesting to know which will they recommend
I've been to their store and they'll go way out of their way to get you the sound you're looking for! I got to hear the 600grand turntable and speakers running! They have levels for sure, and experience.
LS3/5A. It doesn't do everything and it has severe limitations. However, what it does well is beguiling and mesmerizing.
Every standmount speaker performance depends on stand quality, height depends on space acoustics and distance from speaker, concept of speaker..
Stands must be very solid and heavy with low center of gravity.
You just can't put speakers on any stand.
Height must be adjustable, even big floorstand speakers must be tweaked in height.
There is no standard stand height, as it should be geared to the chair/sofa you're sitting at *and* the recommended listening axis, which in the Burchardt case is between the two drivers.
System synergy, could you get an amp similar to what Jay used when he heard the speaker do well? Not every speaker will synergize with one or two Amps even if it's Hegel or Macintosh I think. Could be an issue speaker doesn't sound as proclaimed with Hegel and Macintosh....Then again the speaker could be surrounded by a reality distortion field that could not materialize in this set up, which is a good thing....
I tried 4 sets of electronics. All pretty popular. I am sure there is a perfect match for the speakers but the issues that bothered me were likely not related to electronics especially after 4 different ones
@@adrianlow2114 So that takes care of matching, it's an issue if your speaker difficult to match with popular components ...Thanks for your efforts, buying online without listening would always be difficult specially if you don't get good impressions of it from experienced people....
The Pupil has not surpassed the Master yet. Jay compared it to an Elac half the price.
Come on, Vilip. You and I both know that the best song from Diana Krall’s Live in Paris album is “I love being here with you”! That is the track that I always play as demo :)
There are lots of good tracks on this album to use for "demo" purposes.
I think one can have preferences but still be able to discern sound quality based on various criteria objectively. For the review to have more meaning it would be great to compare it to popular speakers specially in its price range. Hoping you get to review more speakers even if it's not part of you dealership program.
We indirectly compared with our own offerings at the same price, but declined to mention brands simply because we didn't want the video to be seen as a biased slag of Buchardt.
So what beats these in the same price range?
Never mind all that - how do they stack up to the Wilson Alexx V?😊
Wilsons do have a taller image ...
I find it interesting so much time has been spent on a relatively inexpensive speaker. I think the Sonus faber elekta deserves at least 6 videos!
lol, you might regret that! I could do 3 unboxing videos just on Sonus faber!
I think as a wilson dealer you have more of the more dynamic direct radiating speakers. Wilsons have minor some issues but they slam for sure (I am a fan). Hard act to follow.
You should hear the Acoras - my new favourite!
I am now going out to buy what you say is "the other speaker". Thanks!
My dealer also said that these speakers are not so great. You should try amphion argons, they look almost identical.
There is no dealer love for the Buchardt. The dealer want to sell his own products.
“I like the color” good one :)
I saw 2 video reviews of this speaker and 1 guy said it was better than a $50,000 US Wilson speaker I just shook my head. Another one compared them to big Magico's, and Focals. That was a person who loves Klipsch and Kef speakers. Everybody's taste in what they hear is different but these comparisons were ridiculous. Keep up the good work guys love your videos.
I owned S400 speakers mk1 for years and I like them until I upgraded to Wilson Audio speakers which is another level of any speakers...
I watched this review and I found it hard to follow. For most of us who aren't sound engineers or very experienced rating speakers, it was difficult to understand what you are comparing these speakers to. I'm not sure what new speakers with free shipping outperform these speakers. All of the other reviews have been very favorable for these speakers, especially at this price range. Maybe you could do a video to explain what speakers outperform the Buchardt speakers in this price range, I would like to know what brand of speakers you talking about as I would do more research on those.
Try flipping the speakers upside down. I heard that helps in some situations.
Only works in Australia. Just say'n.
There is a slight slope of the front panel, presumably for time alignment. If you flip it, it would change the design.
Didn’t like the sound when it flipped
Great video. Congratulations on your perseverance. I was just wondering if you spent time in Setup when you went to the damped room?
I love you guys. There are so few 'reviewers' out there that give you an honest and detailed description of your experience with the product. I'll have an extra beer tonight in your honour.
I’d be curious on their thoughts of the active versions, the 500.
It appears that you are going out of way to be certain that there are no implied biases and dancing around the conclusion?
1. You haven't changed your original opinions.
2. The speaker has enough compromises that it doesn't impress you in any way.
3. Elevating it just traded old negative traits for new ones.
But the company, staff, business model and delivery network are highly impressive and deserve respect.
damn it .. I missed the demo? I have been working a lot of over time to afford the Lumina 5s ... so I couldn't make it last weekend.
I actually wish Mads would work on an improved version of the S300 MkII. Placement is not a problem with that speaker, and soundstaging is great. Overall balance is great. But a better tweeter and better crossover components, for better resolution, would be welcome in my books. That speaker is so easy to listen to.
And would you pay more?
@@vilipmak3973 Yes. I still love that speaker. I kept it in preference to the Dynaudio Special 40, because of its greater openness and more even response, even though the 40 has a smidgen more detail.
Sigh......the misinformed theory at the end on how a passive radiator works is painful to listen to. Sometimes one really needs a grasp of the underlying math and not rely on intuition.
My thought too. It makes me nervous when people throw around home-made technical arguments to back up subjective opinions. I hope that’s not how they advise their customers 😟
How do you know it is misinformed? What is your data to back up your claim. Please elucidate.
There is no speaker that is going to please everyone. Good you didn't cave in to pressure from netizens. if your requirements from a speaker is a lot higher than other reviewers, then good for you.
Tweeter on ear level!
Hi Guys - It is very easy to go with the flow, it takes courage to stand out and stick for what you believe in. You were honest in your evaluation and quite candid in sharing what you felt. I like your channel and British Audiophile channel of all! Hi @Vilip - Do you think Adrian started recording without waiting for you intentionally? :) 😀 Dont worry, I too come late to work. BTW Could you opine on how Wharfedale 85 would sound compared to SF Lumina II on Hegel amplifier. Take a guess if you will.
The Wharfedale will sound smoother and a little rolled off in the top end and have more bass warmth. It probably won't soundstage and image as well.
@@vilipmak3973 Thank you SIr. Keep doing what you do.
i’ve got a500 on 24 inch stands because tweeters on top and when i had the s400 mk1 i had them on 28 inch stands because tweeters on the bottom. my understanding is that you line up the tweeter with ear level when seated and that’s generally for all speakers.these guys are not people i’d listen to again because the basics seem to elude them. burchardt s after sales service is second to none and you can query anything and they reply within 24 hours and they make excellent speakers at a more than reasonable price
They did try again. They ignored recommendations on gear, room ++. They did notice speaker stand height made a difference thou. It is what it is and people that got it right loves their s400mk2 no matter what they say. Enjoy your music
Don't apologize for what you hear! Some speakers are well - engineered and others maybe less so. And when you're designing to a price point tradeoff need to be made. There will always be people who like speakers that may be colored, boomy, dull, lacking soundstage, bass, etc. But I trust your opinion as you're an audio dealer with no vested interest in Buchardt.
Try Amphion Argon1 it is $2000 and does it all better than those with WAY better build and better drivers and an interesting 1.6khtz crossover. AND they do not sell direct so you can sell them a0s a dealer. They look similar but have better parts and a wave guide too. I have a pair on a Luxman L-590AX II and a Luxman DA-250 Dac.
That's a pretty good amp - no slouch there.
I'm not a speaker expert but today is my birthday! So that qualifies me, that said I have heard this speaker and to me it's bit overhyped and yes its probably a matter of taste. Of the ones I have heard, I liked the BMR, ATC, and the triangle over this speaker. I haven't heard all the speakers in this price range so my exposure is limited. I guess you can make an argument that the ones I liked costed a bit more and that would be valid.
When an audiophile mentions Diana Krall -- That is all you need to know about them
Haters!
@@vilipmak3973 🤣
Thank you - I respect your opinions. I'm not looking for bookshelf speakers and probably wouldn't consider Buchardt (I have a 37 year love of Kef) but what I got out of it was how much fun you guys would be to hang out with and play with/compare hi-fi equipment. I'd love to have a cable shoot out with you (interconnects, speakers, power, USB, Ethernet)! And BTW I've been wondering why you guys aren't rocking a Canadian accent. The RUclips record reviewer Candianstudmuffin (I think in Ontario) has a good one (He goes oet, eh?)! Well Adrian let a little out when he said sowrey (sorry). Thank God. Finally! I like a guy that can show a colloquial accent! I'm sick of the ones around here! Keep up all the fun/informative videos! - Matt in L.A .(You know what our accents sound like-ugh!)
thanks aaye!
Sorry guys, I simply can't stand Vilip's condescending style. Complete dispespect to the shooting coming in late and starting with something like "has the sh*tstorm started yet" - Vilip, that's just no way to communicate. You are not a person one likes to watch.
(Disclaimer: I don not own a Buchardt product, but got one as a loaner afterm your first video and auditioned them with my H120 / Arcam SA20 / Roksan K3 and heard ansolutely zero of what you describe)
I have arcam SA20 + Focal Aria 906 at home and prefer neutral sound. I am thinking of replacing Arias with S400 mk2 despite the reviews (the guys seem to be biased towards the price of audio equipment and its massive margin, being their job is understandable).
Would you say Arcam SA20 was a good match to SA400 mk2? Arcam seems not to like 4ohm loads hence I have chosen Arias (4.5 ohm min) and I like low level listening as well where Aria are excellent, but Arcam is weak in bass department (unless volume is higher and switches to AB topology). Is it really that bad with low volume on Buchardt?
P. S. I have sub, but only during the day as rented flat
@@karollondyncan3951 I liked the smooth and liquid-y midrange of the Arcam in combination with the S400 MK2's somewhat more neutral mids.
Check my video on the comparison S400 vs Dynaudio SP40 and see what you think.
PS: I never listen above 75 dB constant SPL, most of the time even less.
Vilip is ok. That’s just his way. He has or should I say had a lot to offer. He knows his stuff.
@@aussie8114 not debating his knowledge or his experience. At the same time in order to repesent a business like this, he should have been a bit more... polite?
You guys did a great job. Respect 👍
I'm very impressed with your thoroughness and sense of fairness with this speaker. I love listening to all of you. Keep up the fantastic work!!
Exactly what I was expecting. To these guys these speakers are not giant killers. I wouldn’t call these guys noobs so take it for what you will but yah maybe everyone else who claim these otherwise are probably listening in really jacked rooms??
The experience shows eh? Hmmm…
Overall - you guys didn't rate buchard S400. I enjoyed them for years with tube power amplifier class A until I upgraded to Wilson Audio speakers....
I would not put tubes on a speaker like this. Klipsch horns, sure.
sure would like to know what the other speaker was gentlemen.???
That’s another video.
Nice
One would assume the speakers are quality controlled , ie tested & listened to, before boxing and shipping out. So the notion of a defective speaker is pretty slim.
hmmmm Ive only ever had two "good" speakers--Epos Elans, and SF Olympia 1s. And the Oly 1s are far far better (and 3X pricier). Soooo..as a poster below suggests it could just be this price range speaker would just never meet your listening preference....
Please review the a500's, on paper they appear outstanding
Not only on paper ;) They sound great !
200 watts, wow!!! I have never been above 40 watts on my MC462 Revel 228be combo.
What can Adrian say - he likes to Bass!
I brought the Buchardt s400 mk11 after reading and watching reviews and before buying them I went to a few stores to listen to speakers around the same price and heard some really good ones which sounded great with a brighter top end .I got the guy in the store to play the music I listen to -which is mostly 70s and a little modern stuff .I have to say it sounded a bit bright due to the way it was recorded I guess ...Anyway I took the risk and ordered the Buchardt because I read/heard they were forgiving to bad recordings and I think they really are good , it may not have the very best in the top end department but thats fine by me it plays my music well and it isn't fatiguing. I never sent them back and I'm pleased with them ..
That's key for me, too. I get listening fatigue from speakers pretty easily and I can listen to the Buchardts for extended periods and not want to turn them off. These aren't limited to a certain genre of music. The detail is there, and if the tweeters were turned up beyond the neutral level they're at, my enjoyment would suffer.
@@ericfranke1637 I couldn't of said it any better .I totally agree.
OMG you mean we can no longer trust RUclips reviews 😱
Yes - you can trust us for that advice.