I love my 1084. I got it with my A500 back when I was a teenager and it is still used for that computer. It is a very versatile display and still looks fantastic.
The VCR button provides a crude adaptive scan for a signal with erratic horizontal sync. The most common use for this was for playback from a VCR, as there was always variance in the geometry of the helical scan head between units, and tapes would sometimes develop a physical "curl" on the edges of the tape with age or bad storage. You'd see this most often in tapes where the scanlines wobble to the left and back, and in particular often shear sideways at the top or bottom of the image. Just depress the VCR button and you'll see the image snap into place. It basically serves a similar function to a digital time base corrector. A real full-frame digital TBC does a better job usually, but the simple circuitry in the VCR button does a good enough job a lot of the time and similar circuitry was included by default in many televisions made after VCRs became popular (only it was always on on the TVs and could not be disabled except from a service menu). Some VCRs also had an "image stabilizer" button that did the same thing, only at the VCR's end. The button should be left turned off when you feed it a known rock-solid signal like from a computer (in fact the button can mask some technical issues, making diagnosis hard if it's enabled)
Great info, thanks! The manual says only a few words about it but offers no specifics at all about how the button functions. I've used the monitor with many VCRs over the years but never found a need to press it. I guess I should try it with a really bad nth generation copy just to see, assuming I can fix it that is :)
@@retrobitstv Decent VCRs from the 90's will do the fix internally and don't need it. Those combo VHSDVD recorders *have* to do it, as even small wobblyness screws up digitizing the image. To really see the effect you need an old TV and an old or cheap VCR. You don't even have to make your own multi-gen copies to test -- tons of dollar store VHS tapes where they recorded in EP speed on crappy tape stock have the edge-of-tape form of the problem. I've had a few that were completely unwatchable without a stabilizer. You can also sometimes tell when the problem is being corrected by your TV if you're using a cheap 90's VCR that has an on-screen menu overlay but not video processing. The image might look fine but if you bring up the overlay you can see the scanlines from the overlay darting left and right, especially near the top of the screen. This is because the overlay is genlocked to vertical sync, but not horizontal sync. The VCR button was a godsend to me when I was a kid as my basement room had an old 80's VCR and an even older 80's TV, and watched a lot of multigen copied VHS tapes of new anime that had been taped off TV in Japan. =P I'd plug the VCR into my 1084 to be able to watch stuff that was a wobbly mess on my TV.
I recently got an A500 and then found a flat screen that took 15kHZ, it's great but now I found a working 1084S and wow, authentic scanline greatness ! Hopefully it hangs in there for a while !
I've had it happen to me on a 1085S monitor, i pulled of the yoke and cleaned it and picked out the damaged wires, I used a thin layer of epoxy to insulate them where the lacquer had burned off, I had 2 burned trough wires which i soldered back together and used shrinking tube to insulate them. In some mister cores where the screen is more narrow I have a little bit of a small swerve in the edge geometry but its barely noticeable. But I think I was lucky :) but you can always try. I also added a scart connector to a 1084s-p it will need some additional components though, as you will have to let it switch to the scart rgb signal, pin 16 has to connect to a transistor and has to provide 3 volt.
Glad to hear you were able to repair yours and thanks for the tips. I will get the yoke out and cleaned up and see how bad the damage is and then try and come up with a plan. What type of epoxy did you use? Thanks for the tip on the scart connector as well!
Great video! This model of 1084s is my favorite. I love the boxxy case design. It's a bummer is died on you. Hopefully you find a donor CRT in the future.
So lesson learned; before replacing deflection transistors check the resistance of the deflection coils. I hope you get this beauty fixed as it is my favorite retro computer monitor. It might be possible to repair the shorted deflection coil by winding new lacquered wire on it. If you use the same gauge and count the number of turns on the old one.. Not an easy job, and a lot of work but it is doable..
Great advice, and something I will remember for next time! I do hope it can be fixed, so I'll be checking out the extent of the damage soon to figure out a game plan.
Apparently the VCR button adjusts the monitor's circuitry to accept video from a VCR, VLP, or Video Camera. At least that is what I saw in my manual for a 1084, interesting. Such wonderful and versatile little monitor, glad to see all the love here! Hopefully you can get it up and running again, best of luck.
I loved my old 1084S which I used with my Amiga in my Dorm room- I used to plug my VCR into it to watch TV on it as well. Got quite the crowd watching the latest weekly episode of The Simpsons (showing my age abit there!)
Because I was short on money during highschool, I was happy to get a used 1084S as color addition to my SM124 on my Atari ST, just had to build me an adapter cable.
I only have my 1084 left, (and the trapdoor still works). Its' only problem is the color displays in rainbows near the corners. I'm sure it would work perfectly if I had the right tools to degause (sp) the corner posts. If I remember correctly, the power-on is supposed to clear any magnetism issues, but this also seems to malfunction...
I own sister of those they are philips cm8333 I still have 2 from 90s i played all from megadrive to sega dreamcast ps2 Last mounth i visitid a stores here in morocco i get my hand on 2 of this monitor but with composite only they are black color cases
Sorry for your loss :( I have one that is beginning to demonstrate the same behavior as yours did before the choke failed. Not looking forward to what comes next.
The VCR button changes the way it reacts to noisy sync signals. Essentially for TV and computer signals it makes sense to ignore small fluctuations in the sync position as those are typically just caused by noise.This is what's commonly called "fly-wheel synchronisation" where the deflection goes on regardless of small errors. For VCRs however, this is not a good strategy as they have time distortions thanks to geometric distortions of the tape and velocity errors. A signal from a VCR will always be jittery. Pressing this button makes the monitor react quicker to those fluctuations giving you a much more stable picture.
Great info, thanks for clarifying. I used the monitor with a VCR back in the 90's but I do not remember now if I ever tried pushing the button back then or not.
I feel the same way about my AppleColor RGB monitor, however, it is less versatile because it uses a 15 pin rgb conncector, but that means better picture quality
I'm in the process of tearing down the monitor this weekend to get a better idea of what the damage looks like and what it might take to repair it. Hoping a full rewind isn't necessary but we'll see!
separate the green (oxidized) wire on the yoke and see if you can find the short. if broken solder them and then apply varnish and then return them to the original position.
Replacing the deflection coil /yoke isn't that big a deal. Just make sure that it is unscrewed or you will snap off the neck of the tube. If one of the guns is bad than replacing the yoke won't fix it.if you replace the yoke it has to be with a virtually identical monitor or you will probably never get the convergence dialed in very good. If you replace the yoke and the convergence is off you can readjust the convergence rings. Tere are some good tutorials on RUclips from the arcade community on doing a yoke replacement. I can send you a link if you want. I have never replaced a yoke but I have taken 3 or 4 off and repositioned them. Good job adapting this video. It was still entertaining and informative despite your CRT dying mid production.
Thanks! I will definitely have to start doing some more research on repair/replacement and start looking around for a suitable donor. I'm sure it can be done, but finding just the right part is probably going to take time.
Such a shame that the monitor died on you! I really hope you keep it and eventually find a way to get it fixed. It may be beyond your skills today, but who knows what you may learn in the months/years ahead? A retired TV repairman may be able to help or perhaps even be willing to fix it for you? I have a very similar Magnavox 8CM515 (also made by Philips) that I've owned since I was about 17 years old. My case does not have the cut-out for the SCART connector, but that part of the back of the case is unoccupied - making me wonder if the PCB inside is ready for a connector in that spot as well. I really wish you'd been able to finish this video, as I'd have loved to see if you could have gotten that SCART connector working! Hopefully someday - please don't give up...
Just letting you know that, yes indeed, my Magnavox 8CM515 does have a spot on the PCB for a SCART connector as well! I didn’t check for traces under the board, but expect they are there just as on your 1084S. Are you having any luck getting your 1084S repaired?
I got my commodore 64 hooked up to a 4:3 aspect medical document viewer HP elite display. (US $159.00 new three years ago). It has only displayport. SO: Luma / chroma > S-Video to HDMI to Displayport! Good adaptors! I did NOT skimp on cost, I got good stuff. It takes NTSC & PAL. Perfect and gorgeous!. My Micomsoft XRGB II + and XRGB Frame Meister not needed. I did build some BOOMIN mad speakers. A 2.1 setup with their own amps and dual voice coils. Everyone is shocked at how perfect they sound as I demo some SID tunes.
I don't generally feel too bad for not keeping my old Commodore stuff around, there were just too many years in between when I had no interest in any of it... But it might've been nice if I'd held on to my 1084-S, especially now that I've finally got an Amiga.
The monitor is quite literally the only piece of hardware I kept from back then, and I'm not entirely sure why, but I'm glad I did. It must have moved at least 7 times with me, maybe more.
Hard to see in the footage but if it's only one or two-ish wires that has burned off it should be possible to fix by reconnecting the wires and lacquering again.
RIP ol boy. :( I've given up on CRTs. Too troublesome to keep working these days. I just don't have time for that kinna thing anymore. :( That being said, I have a 1084D that needs a PA chip replacement, which will get a vidjya on my Odysee channel here at some point......
did anybody else get a green 1084 monitor, had to open it up when it warmed up and freeze the color cpu so it would display full color again, lol, those were the days
I'm sad to see your old friend has serious issues. I had been talking to a gentleman that does storage locker auction buys, who says he has a half dozen 1084S monitors. I doubt it will pan out but, if it does, I'll drop you a line,
It´s probably a shot in the dark, but have you considered finding another 1084 of the same type to use as a donor? Great video by the way; I have a 1084S-D1 myself, so it was quite interesting to see the differences between the two models. I bought mine used a couple of years ago, but I hope it will last a few more years. Greetings from Denmark.
Thanks! I haven't started the search for a replacement part yet but I may put out some feelers and take some measurements to see if there are suitable replacements from similarly-sized tubes. Enjoy yours!
@@CoCoNutBob I am still looking for parts to repair mine but I wouldn't want to cannibalize a good working unit to fix it. If you've got a dead or parts unit that you're looking to sell, please let me know though. Thanks!
ah sucks you’re 1084S is out of commission for now anyhow…still have my original 1084 working great so far….always wanted the S for the steric sound but could never find one near my town back in the day
I have a 1084S-P1 European model and unfortunately it does not have a SCART connector, as a result I haven't really used it in recent years, it also has a 9-pin RGB port instead of the precursor to S-video. Recently I've been playing around with the idea of using it as a PC monitor for retro inspired games (e.g. the new Turtles game that recently came out and other games like it), which is how I stumbled on to this video, while trying to look for any info on how to use it on a modern PC (as of now, I'm still stuck on whether that is even a possibility or not)
You should be able to create a SCART-to-DB9 cable to use your monitor with anything that supports RGB with HV or composite sync. This might help, assuming that's a -P1 monitor: www.retromania.pt/cms/2017/06/17/tutorial-um-adaptador-scart-1084s-amiga/ Also check out CRTEmudriver - it works on modern PCs with certain AMD video cards to support 240p monitors: geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1009#p1009
Nice video. I have the same crt except in mono. How did you connect the mister to the crt? I can't find any cables to connect to the 6 pin rgb din. Only my Amiga 500. But I'm not able to connect anything else to it or I have to use composite but this is not what I want. I have an European model and also no scart connect. I soldered a scart connection to it like you wanted to, but I get a scrambled picture when I connect something to it. Megadrive, snes etc. I saw a video of someone who was succesful but me it isn't working.
Hrm, I do not have any advice on the scart connector as I never got that far into the project. It sounds like the sync isn't correct tho, or it's not switching the monitor into RGB mode at all. Another commenter indicated that it may be necessary to add a transistor on pin 16 to activate RGB. For the MiSTer, I made a custom cable for the analog I/O board and made sure to disable the scan doubler. Pigtails for the DIN6 end are less than $10 and you can add whatever end you want to it (in this case hd15 vga): www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tensility-international-corp/10-00436/2625286
sad indeed. i have three 1084s's. Only one survives. One has a busted flyback and the other is starting to whine so im guessing its flyback is on the way out too. Other than that i have a Sony BVM 20E1E which i also adore. I hate using modern screens for retro stuff so ill be using my crts as long as i can. Great video :)
Good news is that flybacks are still available, at least for Philips models. HR7506 I believe is the replacement part but probably a good idea to check your service manual to be sure!
Best possible case, some displays have a discharge circuit that will bleed off the stored voltage given enough time. The pop you heard was 10's of thousands of volts discharging which is enough to be lethal if you touch it.
Thanks for another great video but sorry about the monitor. I’m sure you’ll get it back working soon. Question, I know you mentioned this monitor works with the Apple ii core, have you been able to use the 486 core? I just have a 1702 monitor and it won’t work with the S video output nor the other CRT I have. Thanks again and stay safe.
The ao486 core outputs 31khz RGB natively, so the 1084 won't be able to display it. You should be able to override the default behavior of the core and force it to 15khz, but that's going to break compatibility with software that use resolutions higher than 240p. You can try putting the following in your mister.ini file and see how far you get: [ao486] video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048 vga_scaler=1
@@retrobitstv Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and provide this information. I had a feeling it might not work but wanted to confirm with someone that has more experience with the Mister as all my past retro stuff has either been with original hardware or a Raspberry Pii. Thanks again and stay safe.
Looking to adapt my two working Amiga 1080 monitors to properly display retro systems from my PC emulators. I always see how people do the opposite. Any idea how to adapt a PC's VGA or HDMI signal to get an analog RGB connection on a 1080 monitor?
I suspect either will be just fine for the 128. The 1901 is a PAL-exclusive model so I've never seen it before myself. On cursory examination, it looks like the 1901 only has Digital RGB, perfect for the 128, but the 1084 also has analog RGB for the Amiga and other 16-bit era computers and game consoles.
All the talk about how CRTs are all going to die one day makes me sad. My tube is from the mid-2000s, so I'm sure it still has at least decade or so left, but it's eventually not going to be around.
HI! I have a question, but i have to mention immediately that i have no technical understanding whatsoever (none!), so in case of answer i won't be offended by an oversimplified version of an answer. Back to the question: I have a C-64 and an A-500. Because of limited space i use only one 1084S monitor, switching cables at the back of the monitor every time i change from C64 to A500. Is there any way i can get both computers connected to that monitor at the same time? Or in any case a scenario where i can leave the connectors at the back of the monitor in peace and not breaking my back in the process?
The short answer is yes! It sounds like you are connecting the A500 to the monitor using composite (single yellow RCA style connector). For a much higher quality picture, the Amiga should be connected using RGB instead. This would require you getting the proper cable, DB23 to DIN6. You can find these cables for as little as $15 USD on AmiBay, eBay, or at various Amiga vendors online! Once you've connected that cable, you can leave both systems connected to the 1084S and switch between the C64 and A500 by using the RGB/CVBS button that's in the front control panel. Note that this doesn't solve the audio situation. You would either need an RCA switchbox to pick which audio input to send to the monitor, or use external amplified speakers which is what I do :)
@@retrobitstv That is putting me a long way in the right direction. I’ll figure it out from here, now that i have the right abbreviations of stuff to fit to the setup. Thanks for taking the time and greets from Belgium!
I have an 1084s which has not been use since 1998, now I try turn on and the red light come on but no picture the hookup is correct . What come be the problem other than I have not use it in years?
Is it making any strange noises? Can you feel static when you run your hand over the screen while it's powered on? Also make sure it's not set to RGB if trying to use CVBS or vice-versa.
@@retrobitstv I just starting setup my commodore 128d, I have the same setup as you do but I get no picture and the monitor will not shut off and on. Is this 2 separate problem or just one?
@@lesterjeffries2467 First thing you need to check is if it's making high voltage. Either check to see if the neck of the tube is glowing, or just run your hand over the screen and test if you feel any static.
@@retrobitstv Thanks,, I try 2 monitor and none of them turns on. So I will open the 128D and see if any dirt is inside. I have not them use them since about 1998.
I have exactly the same model. So far still going strong 🤞 After watching this video however I’m concerned about ensuring I don’t run any non-15khz Mister cores. Is there a list of which cores would be safe to run?
After finding the real failure, I'm pretty sure that the MiSTer didn't play a part in the failure, just age. I'm not aware of any comprehensive list. Each core outputs the native signal for the original hardware. For sure the 486 core defaults to 31Khz, but you can force it, or any core really, to run at 240p with something like this in the config file: [ao486] video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048 vga_scaler=1
@@damiansurace7941 I will need to find a suitable donor yoke from a similar model of display that has very similar properties to my original, or try and repair or re-wind the damaged copper windings. Step 1 will be to remove the yoke and assess the level of damage. If it's not too crispy I may try and repair the insulation, but if the wire itself has melted it will require more serious repair that may be beyond my skill level.
Am I getting the FIRST comment?? This is SOOO strange.. LoL.. Anyways, I just love (sarcastically) how they advertised the Commodore Colt: as "The Complete IBM Compatible Machine For The Whole Family!" And then under the Price it says: "w/o Optional Commodore 1084 Color Monitor." And then you paid MORE for the SEPARATE monitor. Uhhmmm... That's NOT a complete System!!!! The 80's WERE SUPER Funky for computers because sold monitors separately.. LMAO... ='oD Could you (or someone here) please recommend a good quality soldering kit for beginners?? And thanks much. = o )
I used a number of cheap $15 Radio Shack soldering irons over the years, but finally broke down and bought a nice Hakko (link in the description). At over $100, it's a lot pricer, but once you use a nice one, there's simply no going back. Also, I've learned over the years that if you buy cheap, you buy twice (or more). Get a quality tool and it'll last a lifetime.
I've got two of them, ordered from listings and came perfectly working. But both of them failed within 2 weeks, same black screen with the same noise. That's all, they just fail and I won't put anymore money in these monitors. A similar size Trinitron TV CRT and that's all what you need, they come with SCART in Europe and they're stronger built than the "anyway it will fail" Amiga/Atari monitors.
Yea these monitors all suffer from flyback and/or power switch failure eventually. Both parts are still available and aren't too hard to replace. If you still have the monitors, hopefully someone wants them to repair or at the very least, the parts can be used to keep others going a while longer.
These are not "Commodore", but some generic rather cheap quality Taiwanese brand (like to know which one), as you see them with all kinds of brands printed, including Philips. I do prefer a good Trinitron as it gives nicer scanlines than tridot screens. Also the colours pop more.
I want you to research how to rewind that deflection yoke. I want to see you try...and succeed and then I want you to make happy dance. We lovers of all things commodore will go to the deepest depths of effort to keep them alive. I may drill holes in MY breadbin to mod it more and more until there's not a mod LEFT or space to put a hole for a switch or knob...but she's a rescue, found dead in a crack puffer's closet and full of cat piss and turdlets. Needed SID, CIA, RAM, much keyboard repair involving early C=64C white keycaps w/ gray front symbols (not on top) - and orange VIC-20 function keycaps and mechboard cherry blue switches, recap, SIDFX, VICII2, JiffyDOS, Switchable kernals, RF bypass, a gang of synth effects filters, a one tube headphone amplifier, reset switch...I think I'm STILL looking for a mod I can do to it. I modded all HELL outta the 1541 ALPS drive. Track display, device ID switches, reset, RAMBOard, parallel burst nibbler mod, JiffyDOS and I'm building a DolphinDOS board. Turbo Chameleon 64 v2 w/ battery, RRNET card, dock, cable, remote. 1541 Ultimate II+. Pi1541 (the Raspberry Pi 3b+ one.) Easy Flash 3. 64 NIC+. Magic Voice Module, a Ray Carlsen power supply, Printer, datasette, cats painted all over both 1541 and C=64 to pay homage to it's past life. I buy one deluxe collectibles game from protovision and the like at least once per month. It understands full-well that I love and adore it. I could NEVER sell it. I would NEVER shitcan it. And we know that the day will come that you remedy this coil. OR ELSE!
As a CRT TV engineer I will tell you within the first 3 seconds of your video that is NOT a good CRT at all. The tube when turned off needs to be as dark as possible like a Grundig (Atari) Sony (Apple) or Panasonic. That is medium grey. I have every C= monitor ever sold and my two 1902 monitors are the only ones with dark grey tubes.
I love my 1084. I got it with my A500 back when I was a teenager and it is still used for that computer. It is a very versatile display and still looks fantastic.
That Cannon Fodder reference was gold :D
The VCR button provides a crude adaptive scan for a signal with erratic horizontal sync. The most common use for this was for playback from a VCR, as there was always variance in the geometry of the helical scan head between units, and tapes would sometimes develop a physical "curl" on the edges of the tape with age or bad storage. You'd see this most often in tapes where the scanlines wobble to the left and back, and in particular often shear sideways at the top or bottom of the image. Just depress the VCR button and you'll see the image snap into place.
It basically serves a similar function to a digital time base corrector. A real full-frame digital TBC does a better job usually, but the simple circuitry in the VCR button does a good enough job a lot of the time and similar circuitry was included by default in many televisions made after VCRs became popular (only it was always on on the TVs and could not be disabled except from a service menu). Some VCRs also had an "image stabilizer" button that did the same thing, only at the VCR's end.
The button should be left turned off when you feed it a known rock-solid signal like from a computer (in fact the button can mask some technical issues, making diagnosis hard if it's enabled)
Great info, thanks! The manual says only a few words about it but offers no specifics at all about how the button functions. I've used the monitor with many VCRs over the years but never found a need to press it. I guess I should try it with a really bad nth generation copy just to see, assuming I can fix it that is :)
@@retrobitstv Decent VCRs from the 90's will do the fix internally and don't need it. Those combo VHSDVD recorders *have* to do it, as even small wobblyness screws up digitizing the image.
To really see the effect you need an old TV and an old or cheap VCR. You don't even have to make your own multi-gen copies to test -- tons of dollar store VHS tapes where they recorded in EP speed on crappy tape stock have the edge-of-tape form of the problem. I've had a few that were completely unwatchable without a stabilizer.
You can also sometimes tell when the problem is being corrected by your TV if you're using a cheap 90's VCR that has an on-screen menu overlay but not video processing. The image might look fine but if you bring up the overlay you can see the scanlines from the overlay darting left and right, especially near the top of the screen. This is because the overlay is genlocked to vertical sync, but not horizontal sync.
The VCR button was a godsend to me when I was a kid as my basement room had an old 80's VCR and an even older 80's TV, and watched a lot of multigen copied VHS tapes of new anime that had been taped off TV in Japan. =P I'd plug the VCR into my 1084 to be able to watch stuff that was a wobbly mess on my TV.
I recently got an A500 and then found a flat screen that took 15kHZ, it's great but now I found a working 1084S and wow, authentic scanline greatness ! Hopefully it hangs in there for a while !
Still have my 1084S. I used it for quite a few years as a tv and now it's back with my pristine Amiga 1200.
A great monitor.
I've had it happen to me on a 1085S monitor, i pulled of the yoke and cleaned it and picked out the damaged wires, I used a thin layer of epoxy to insulate them where the lacquer had burned off, I had 2 burned trough wires which i soldered back together and used shrinking tube to insulate them. In some mister cores where the screen is more narrow I have a little bit of a small swerve in the edge geometry but its barely noticeable. But I think I was lucky :) but you can always try. I also added a scart connector to a 1084s-p it will need some additional components though, as you will have to let it switch to the scart rgb signal, pin 16 has to connect to a transistor and has to provide 3 volt.
Glad to hear you were able to repair yours and thanks for the tips. I will get the yoke out and cleaned up and see how bad the damage is and then try and come up with a plan. What type of epoxy did you use? Thanks for the tip on the scart connector as well!
@@retrobitstv I think its a bit of a generic 2 part epoxy, its called Bison Kombi Quick Epoxy
Great video! This model of 1084s is my favorite. I love the boxxy case design. It's a bummer is died on you. Hopefully you find a donor CRT in the future.
Thanks! I really do hope it can be fixed one day; it is my fav as well!
So lesson learned; before replacing deflection transistors check the resistance of the deflection coils.
I hope you get this beauty fixed as it is my favorite retro computer monitor. It might be possible to repair the shorted deflection coil by winding new lacquered wire on it. If you use the same gauge and count the number of turns on the old one..
Not an easy job, and a lot of work but it is doable..
Great advice, and something I will remember for next time! I do hope it can be fixed, so I'll be checking out the extent of the damage soon to figure out a game plan.
Apparently the VCR button adjusts the monitor's circuitry to accept video from a VCR, VLP, or Video Camera. At least that is what I saw in my manual for a 1084, interesting. Such wonderful and versatile little monitor, glad to see all the love here! Hopefully you can get it up and running again, best of luck.
Thanks for the tip and I hope it can be fixed someday!
Great video! Thanks for documenting your journey! Very helpful to others on the same path!
I also still love my 1084 and I hope it lives a long time!
Great episode!
Greetings, Doc64!
Commodore 1084(S)-P and it's sister model Philips cm8833/8833-II are also my favourite monitors. I have five of them :D
Donate one to this poor chap.
@@gaijin3612 , I would like to but mine are here in Europe :)
@@TheMrJamu
I have 2 models of philips 2 too
They deffirente by model
Me and my brother still owning them from 90s
By the way im from morocco north africa
Very nice episode. And sorry for your loss.
I love my Philips CM8833 back the day
I'm surprisingly bummed out by the failure of your old friend. :(
loved the cannon fodder reference
music was too fast, though :P
Excellent video ❤
I loved my old 1084S which I used with my Amiga in my Dorm room- I used to plug my VCR into it to watch TV on it as well. Got quite the crowd watching the latest weekly episode of The Simpsons (showing my age abit there!)
Too funny, we used my 1084S as a dorm room TV as well!
Thanks for the video! Sorry to see your 1084S failing. I briefly had a 1084 which had a broken power switch.
I'm surprised mine hadn't broken yet, but I picked up a couple new switches to have on-hand for when it did happen!
I agree about the design of the casing for the monitor. I love it too! The later rounded casing is not appealing.
Because I was short on money during highschool, I was happy to get a used 1084S as color addition to my SM124 on my Atari ST, just had to build me an adapter cable.
Also they were sold under the Acorn brand, to be used with late Acorn/BBC 8-bit micros and the Acorn Archimedes
Adrians basement added a scart, you need to solder the jumpers for the sync to work, but all the circuitry is there.
I have that desoldering gun it's my favorite tool!
Nice work in keeping it and I think you will get it fixed someday.
Thanks! I sure hope so :)
I have one or two of these, but my favorite was the 1084 non-S and a commodore 1080 that I stupidly gave away almost 20 years ago.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Great video!! I missed this video when it came out but did as you suggested a few seconds into your new video.
This is one of my dream monitors, i’m using a 1201 monochrome at the moment 😆 😅
Good presentation 👍🏻
Condolences for your loss - hopefully you will find a way to resurrect your old buddy. :p
The RGB is even compatible all the way up to the 256 bit era(PS2 outputs RGB)! Excellent monitor
ps3 can do 480i via scart
I only have my 1084 left, (and the trapdoor still works).
Its' only problem is the color displays in rainbows near the corners. I'm sure it would work perfectly if I had the right tools to degause (sp) the corner posts. If I remember correctly, the power-on is supposed to clear any magnetism issues, but this also seems to malfunction...
I own sister of those they are philips cm8333
I still have 2 from 90s i played all from megadrive to sega dreamcast ps2
Last mounth i visitid a stores here in morocco i get my hand on 2 of this monitor but with composite only they are black color cases
Sorry for your loss :(
I have one that is beginning to demonstrate the same behavior as yours did before the choke failed. Not looking forward to what comes next.
Thanks! I hope yours is able to be saved. Maybe the insulation can be repaired with lacquer/epoxy before it fails totally like mine?
The VCR button changes the way it reacts to noisy sync signals. Essentially for TV and computer signals it makes sense to ignore small fluctuations in the sync position as those are typically just caused by noise.This is what's commonly called "fly-wheel synchronisation" where the deflection goes on regardless of small errors.
For VCRs however, this is not a good strategy as they have time distortions thanks to geometric distortions of the tape and velocity errors. A signal from a VCR will always be jittery. Pressing this button makes the monitor react quicker to those fluctuations giving you a much more stable picture.
Great info, thanks for clarifying. I used the monitor with a VCR back in the 90's but I do not remember now if I ever tried pushing the button back then or not.
I feel the same way about my AppleColor RGB monitor, however, it is less versatile because it uses a 15 pin rgb conncector, but that means better picture quality
rewinding a crt yoke sounds like a fun challange
I'm in the process of tearing down the monitor this weekend to get a better idea of what the damage looks like and what it might take to repair it. Hoping a full rewind isn't necessary but we'll see!
separate the green (oxidized) wire on the yoke and see if you can find the short. if broken solder them and then apply varnish and then return them to the original position.
Replacing the deflection coil /yoke isn't that big a deal. Just make sure that it is unscrewed or you will snap off the neck of the tube. If one of the guns is bad than replacing the yoke won't fix it.if you replace the yoke it has to be with a virtually identical monitor or you will probably never get the convergence dialed in very good. If you replace the yoke and the convergence is off you can readjust the convergence rings.
Tere are some good tutorials on RUclips from the arcade community on doing a yoke replacement. I can send you a link if you want. I have never replaced a yoke but I have taken 3 or 4 off and repositioned them.
Good job adapting this video. It was still entertaining and informative despite your CRT dying mid production.
Thanks! I will definitely have to start doing some more research on repair/replacement and start looking around for a suitable donor. I'm sure it can be done, but finding just the right part is probably going to take time.
@@retrobitstv you're welcome and good luck!
Such a shame that the monitor died on you! I really hope you keep it and eventually find a way to get it fixed. It may be beyond your skills today, but who knows what you may learn in the months/years ahead? A retired TV repairman may be able to help or perhaps even be willing to fix it for you? I have a very similar Magnavox 8CM515 (also made by Philips) that I've owned since I was about 17 years old. My case does not have the cut-out for the SCART connector, but that part of the back of the case is unoccupied - making me wonder if the PCB inside is ready for a connector in that spot as well. I really wish you'd been able to finish this video, as I'd have loved to see if you could have gotten that SCART connector working! Hopefully someday - please don't give up...
Thanks for the positive thoughts! I hope I am able to fix it in time as well. One step at a time!
Just letting you know that, yes indeed, my Magnavox 8CM515 does have a spot on the PCB for a SCART connector as well! I didn’t check for traces under the board, but expect they are there just as on your 1084S. Are you having any luck getting your 1084S repaired?
Great topic! A shame about the deflection yoke coil. There are some repair videos on YT -- might be worthwhile attempting a repair.
Thanks! I will definitely have to dig in and do some more research. I'm already starting to hatch a plan!
@@retrobitstv Cool. Looking forward to your findings.
I've got a Commodore 1702. I love the Chroma Luma Split. But man would I love something like this to get Composite, S video and RGB
I got my commodore 64 hooked up to a 4:3 aspect medical document viewer HP elite display. (US $159.00 new three years ago). It has only displayport. SO: Luma / chroma > S-Video to HDMI to Displayport! Good adaptors! I did NOT skimp on cost, I got good stuff. It takes NTSC & PAL. Perfect and gorgeous!. My Micomsoft XRGB II + and XRGB Frame Meister not needed. I did build some BOOMIN mad speakers. A 2.1 setup with their own amps and dual voice coils. Everyone is shocked at how perfect they sound as I demo some SID tunes.
I don't generally feel too bad for not keeping my old Commodore stuff around, there were just too many years in between when I had no interest in any of it... But it might've been nice if I'd held on to my 1084-S, especially now that I've finally got an Amiga.
The monitor is quite literally the only piece of hardware I kept from back then, and I'm not entirely sure why, but I'm glad I did. It must have moved at least 7 times with me, maybe more.
I've had mine since 1991. The hinges on the front panel have been broken for about that long.
So sad ending!
Gutting sorry for your loss mmm
Still waithing for this monitor to be fixed.
I cant sleep at night knowing this one is lost in action...
So... some things happened here ruclips.net/video/Fox9dYMTak0/видео.html but there will still be more to the story.
Hard to see in the footage but if it's only one or two-ish wires that has burned off it should be possible to fix by reconnecting the wires and lacquering again.
Thanks for the tip, I hope the damage isn't too extensive! Next step will be to remove the yoke, clean up the charred bits, and assess the situation.
RIP ol boy. :(
I've given up on CRTs. Too troublesome to keep working these days. I just don't have time for that kinna thing anymore. :(
That being said, I have a 1084D that needs a PA chip replacement, which will get a vidjya on my Odysee channel here at some point......
did anybody else get a green 1084 monitor, had to open it up when it warmed up and freeze the color cpu so it would display full color again, lol, those were the days
I'm sad to see your old friend has serious issues. I had been talking to a gentleman that does storage locker auction buys, who says he has a half dozen 1084S monitors. I doubt it will pan out but, if it does, I'll drop you a line,
Appreciate the thought! I'd definitely be interested if there were donor parts available from a dead monitor.
It is possible to repair those yokes. Perhaps if you send it to Adrian Black he can fix it.
It´s probably a shot in the dark, but have you considered finding another 1084 of the same type to use as a donor?
Great video by the way; I have a 1084S-D1 myself, so it was quite interesting to see the differences between the two models. I bought mine used a couple of years ago, but I hope it will last a few more years.
Greetings from Denmark.
Thanks! I haven't started the search for a replacement part yet but I may put out some feelers and take some measurements to see if there are suitable replacements from similarly-sized tubes. Enjoy yours!
@@retrobitstv I have a spare 1084 if you're still looking.
@@CoCoNutBob I am still looking for parts to repair mine but I wouldn't want to cannibalize a good working unit to fix it. If you've got a dead or parts unit that you're looking to sell, please let me know though. Thanks!
ah sucks you’re 1084S is out of commission for now anyhow…still have my original 1084 working great so far….always wanted the S for the steric sound but could never find one near my town back in the day
1080 forever! I always felt the look was a bit superior to the 1084s.
Yeah the lacquering on the choke's copper wire is going to age and eventually come off.
I have a 1084S-P1 European model and unfortunately it does not have a SCART connector, as a result I haven't really used it in recent years, it also has a 9-pin RGB port instead of the precursor to S-video. Recently I've been playing around with the idea of using it as a PC monitor for retro inspired games (e.g. the new Turtles game that recently came out and other games like it), which is how I stumbled on to this video, while trying to look for any info on how to use it on a modern PC (as of now, I'm still stuck on whether that is even a possibility or not)
You should be able to create a SCART-to-DB9 cable to use your monitor with anything that supports RGB with HV or composite sync. This might help, assuming that's a -P1 monitor: www.retromania.pt/cms/2017/06/17/tutorial-um-adaptador-scart-1084s-amiga/
Also check out CRTEmudriver - it works on modern PCs with certain AMD video cards to support 240p monitors: geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1009#p1009
@@retrobitstv Thank you, I'll look into those~
Nice video. I have the same crt except in mono. How did you connect the mister to the crt? I can't find any cables to connect to the 6 pin rgb din. Only my Amiga 500.
But I'm not able to connect anything else to it or I have to use composite but this is not what I want.
I have an European model and also no scart connect. I soldered a scart connection to it like you wanted to, but I get a scrambled picture when I connect something to it. Megadrive, snes etc.
I saw a video of someone who was succesful but me it isn't working.
Hrm, I do not have any advice on the scart connector as I never got that far into the project. It sounds like the sync isn't correct tho, or it's not switching the monitor into RGB mode at all. Another commenter indicated that it may be necessary to add a transistor on pin 16 to activate RGB. For the MiSTer, I made a custom cable for the analog I/O board and made sure to disable the scan doubler. Pigtails for the DIN6 end are less than $10 and you can add whatever end you want to it (in this case hd15 vga): www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tensility-international-corp/10-00436/2625286
sad indeed. i have three 1084s's. Only one survives. One has a busted flyback and the other is starting to whine so im guessing its flyback is on the way out too. Other than that i have a Sony BVM 20E1E which i also adore. I hate using modern screens for retro stuff so ill be using my crts as long as i can. Great video :)
Good news is that flybacks are still available, at least for Philips models. HR7506 I believe is the replacement part but probably a good idea to check your service manual to be sure!
What would happen if you got that flyback pop in your fingers from the cap discharge, if the monitor was off as shown?
Best possible case, some displays have a discharge circuit that will bleed off the stored voltage given enough time. The pop you heard was 10's of thousands of volts discharging which is enough to be lethal if you touch it.
My PAL version of the 1084S came with SCART connector on the back, why does yours not have that?
SCART wasn't adopted in North America so none of our displays had it. Or at least so few it doesn't bear mention.
I've seen that monitor before....
Thanks for another great video but sorry about the monitor. I’m sure you’ll get it back working soon.
Question, I know you mentioned this monitor works with the Apple ii core, have you been able to use the 486 core? I just have a 1702 monitor and it won’t work with the S video output nor the other CRT I have.
Thanks again and stay safe.
The ao486 core outputs 31khz RGB natively, so the 1084 won't be able to display it. You should be able to override the default behavior of the core and force it to 15khz, but that's going to break compatibility with software that use resolutions higher than 240p. You can try putting the following in your mister.ini file and see how far you get:
[ao486]
video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048
vga_scaler=1
@@retrobitstv Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and provide this information. I had a feeling it might not work but wanted to confirm with someone that has more experience with the Mister as all my past retro stuff has either been with original hardware or a Raspberry Pii.
Thanks again and stay safe.
i have the same pal version has only one speaker any one knows where i can find a second speaker
Needs Elf magic
Looking to adapt my two working Amiga 1080 monitors to properly display retro systems from my PC emulators. I always see how people do the opposite. Any idea how to adapt a PC's VGA or HDMI signal to get an analog RGB connection on a 1080 monitor?
it's better Commodore 1901 or 1084s P ??? for 80 columns RGBI Commodore 128 ??? thanks :)
I suspect either will be just fine for the 128. The 1901 is a PAL-exclusive model so I've never seen it before myself. On cursory examination, it looks like the 1901 only has Digital RGB, perfect for the 128, but the 1084 also has analog RGB for the Amiga and other 16-bit era computers and game consoles.
All the talk about how CRTs are all going to die one day makes me sad. My tube is from the mid-2000s, so I'm sure it still has at least decade or so left, but it's eventually not going to be around.
HI! I have a question, but i have to mention immediately that i have no technical understanding whatsoever (none!), so in case of answer i won't be offended by an oversimplified version of an answer. Back to the question: I have a C-64 and an A-500. Because of limited space i use only one 1084S monitor, switching cables at the back of the monitor every time i change from C64 to A500. Is there any way i can get both computers connected to that monitor at the same time? Or in any case a scenario where i can leave the connectors at the back of the monitor in peace and not breaking my back in the process?
The short answer is yes! It sounds like you are connecting the A500 to the monitor using composite (single yellow RCA style connector). For a much higher quality picture, the Amiga should be connected using RGB instead. This would require you getting the proper cable, DB23 to DIN6. You can find these cables for as little as $15 USD on AmiBay, eBay, or at various Amiga vendors online! Once you've connected that cable, you can leave both systems connected to the 1084S and switch between the C64 and A500 by using the RGB/CVBS button that's in the front control panel. Note that this doesn't solve the audio situation. You would either need an RCA switchbox to pick which audio input to send to the monitor, or use external amplified speakers which is what I do :)
@@retrobitstv That is putting me a long way in the right direction. I’ll figure it out from here, now that i have the right abbreviations of stuff to fit to the setup. Thanks for taking the time and greets from Belgium!
I have an 1084s which has not been use since 1998, now I try turn on and the red light come on but no picture the hookup is correct . What come be the problem other than I have not use it in years?
Is it making any strange noises? Can you feel static when you run your hand over the screen while it's powered on? Also make sure it's not set to RGB if trying to use CVBS or vice-versa.
@@retrobitstv I just starting setup my commodore 128d, I have the same setup as you do but I get no picture and the monitor will not shut off and on. Is this 2 separate problem or just one?
@@lesterjeffries2467 First thing you need to check is if it's making high voltage. Either check to see if the neck of the tube is glowing, or just run your hand over the screen and test if you feel any static.
@@retrobitstv Thanks,, I try 2 monitor and none of them turns on. So I will open the 128D and see if any dirt is inside. I have not them use them since about 1998.
Power switch fail? I have one , and never fail, and is still in use. Screen curve is normal in 80 to 90. The con is the price, expensive then and now.
Nice to see some stuff just can't be repaired.
I have exactly the same model. So far still going strong 🤞
After watching this video however I’m concerned about ensuring I don’t run any non-15khz Mister cores. Is there a list of which cores would be safe to run?
After finding the real failure, I'm pretty sure that the MiSTer didn't play a part in the failure, just age. I'm not aware of any comprehensive list. Each core outputs the native signal for the original hardware. For sure the 486 core defaults to 31Khz, but you can force it, or any core really, to run at 240p with something like this in the config file:
[ao486]
video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048
vga_scaler=1
@@retrobitstv thanks for that. So after finding the issue, is your 1084S salvageable? 🤞
@@damiansurace7941 I will need to find a suitable donor yoke from a similar model of display that has very similar properties to my original, or try and repair or re-wind the damaged copper windings. Step 1 will be to remove the yoke and assess the level of damage. If it's not too crispy I may try and repair the insulation, but if the wire itself has melted it will require more serious repair that may be beyond my skill level.
@@retrobitstv Best of luck! If anyone can resurect it, it's you!
@@damiansurace7941 Thanks! I will give it my best shot :)
Am I getting the FIRST comment?? This is SOOO strange.. LoL.. Anyways, I just love (sarcastically) how they advertised the Commodore Colt: as "The Complete IBM Compatible Machine For The Whole Family!" And then under the Price it says: "w/o Optional Commodore 1084 Color Monitor." And then you paid MORE for the SEPARATE monitor. Uhhmmm... That's NOT a complete System!!!! The 80's WERE SUPER Funky for computers because sold monitors separately.. LMAO... ='oD Could you (or someone here) please recommend a good quality soldering kit for beginners?? And thanks much. = o )
I used a number of cheap $15 Radio Shack soldering irons over the years, but finally broke down and bought a nice Hakko (link in the description). At over $100, it's a lot pricer, but once you use a nice one, there's simply no going back. Also, I've learned over the years that if you buy cheap, you buy twice (or more). Get a quality tool and it'll last a lifetime.
@@retrobitstv Awesome. Thanks Much.
I've got two of them, ordered from listings and came perfectly working. But both of them failed within 2 weeks, same black screen with the same noise. That's all, they just fail and I won't put anymore money in these monitors. A similar size Trinitron TV CRT and that's all what you need, they come with SCART in Europe and they're stronger built than the "anyway it will fail" Amiga/Atari monitors.
Yea these monitors all suffer from flyback and/or power switch failure eventually. Both parts are still available and aren't too hard to replace. If you still have the monitors, hopefully someone wants them to repair or at the very least, the parts can be used to keep others going a while longer.
Just put a LCD in it /s
These are not "Commodore", but some generic rather cheap quality Taiwanese brand (like to know which one), as you see them with all kinds of brands printed, including Philips. I do prefer a good Trinitron as it gives nicer scanlines than tridot screens. Also the colours pop more.
I want you to research how to rewind that deflection yoke. I want to see you try...and succeed and then I want you to make happy dance. We lovers of all things commodore will go to the deepest depths of effort to keep them alive. I may drill holes in MY breadbin to mod it more and more until there's not a mod LEFT or space to put a hole for a switch or knob...but she's a rescue, found dead in a crack puffer's closet and full of cat piss and turdlets. Needed SID, CIA, RAM, much keyboard repair involving early C=64C white keycaps w/ gray front symbols (not on top) - and orange VIC-20 function keycaps and mechboard cherry blue switches, recap, SIDFX, VICII2, JiffyDOS, Switchable kernals, RF bypass, a gang of synth effects filters, a one tube headphone amplifier, reset switch...I think I'm STILL looking for a mod I can do to it. I modded all HELL outta the 1541 ALPS drive. Track display, device ID switches, reset, RAMBOard, parallel burst nibbler mod, JiffyDOS and I'm building a DolphinDOS board. Turbo Chameleon 64 v2 w/ battery, RRNET card, dock, cable, remote. 1541 Ultimate II+. Pi1541 (the Raspberry Pi 3b+ one.) Easy Flash 3. 64 NIC+. Magic Voice Module, a Ray Carlsen power supply, Printer, datasette, cats painted all over both 1541 and C=64 to pay homage to it's past life. I buy one deluxe collectibles game from protovision and the like at least once per month. It understands full-well that I love and adore it. I could NEVER sell it. I would NEVER shitcan it. And we know that the day will come that you remedy this coil. OR ELSE!
Test comment
As a CRT TV engineer I will tell you within the first 3 seconds of your video that is NOT a good CRT at all. The tube when turned off needs to be as dark as possible like a Grundig (Atari) Sony (Apple) or Panasonic. That is medium grey. I have every C= monitor ever sold and my two 1902 monitors are the only ones with dark grey tubes.
Sad.. sad face.