Note that the SCART mod depicted here only works with CSYNC. A more thorough conversion that also works with Composite Sync can be found in this video from The Retro Channel: ruclips.net/video/diQmmyWflwQ/видео.html
being a 52 yr old tv tech. Magnovox also sold these monitors with various connectors on the back so you should be able to get a 13" magnovox monitor and pull the yoke from it. i have even pulled yokes from different brand monitors and used them in different monitors. just make sure the resistance measurement is close to the original. if it's really close then you should be able to make some adjustments on the main board in the horizontal and vertical deflection circuits to adjust picture to make it fit. good luck
Hay Ben do you still work on monitors? I know, I know enough that I could hurt myself or die from the high voltage. If so, are you close to Ohio? I want to get my monitors serviced but I really want to drive them there and then pick them up, so that they are not getting beat up in the mail.
Great info, thanks for sharing! I will keep an eye out for a suitable replacement. Does it matter if it's from a TV or a computer monitor as long as it's 13" and has a similar resistance and physical fitment?
@retrobits there are some Magnovox monitors that are obviously Phillips 1084 "siblings." Not as many features, but the same case, etc. Those are the ones that will be a match.
That was an amazing repair. My biggest concern about working on CRT monitors is the high voltage that might (probably will) be present inside the tube and caps, etc., and how to safely discharge them. I have some experience with low voltage DC circuits, but I shied away from AC circuits because of the high voltage. I have two Commodore CRT monitors I need to repair. I saw you discharge your CRT but I would need detailed instructions on how to do it properly, so I don't fry myself. I'm getting older, but I'm not quite ready to be pushing up daisies. 😊Nice job. I learned a lot.
Thanks for the scart mod tip! I soldered scart connector to my PAL 1084S a month ago and had the same issue with sync. Now that I added the two jumpers, I have stable image through scart. Previously, I thought that I have to solder a number of missing components to the board.
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew I would love it! Yep!! Awesome seeing your original 1084 working again. After your previous 1084 video, I opened up my Magnavox 8CM515 and YES, it has the traces for a SCART connector just like the 1084! I have the parts already and thanks to your bodge wire example, I’m much more confident I can get SCART working on this too. Thanks!
Love the video. I'm 39 and I am legit the exact same shoes when it comes to console/ hardware repairs. I even made a tutorial on replacing a Commodore Monitor Button which was a breeze but man that monitor was awfully dirty. However it now has a good home. And yes, I 100% agree that we should all come together and learn from each other. Cause i too wing stuff.
Excellent work! I have a bad power switch in my 1084S, can't wait to see part 2. Taking the case off looks easy enough, hopefully you don't need to mess with the bottom RF shield to get at the switch connections.
Thanks! What's funny is the power switch in the *good* 1084S failed right after making this video so I'll be replacing them both it looks like. Should be do-able without messing with the RF shield at all. There's a write-up here: www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/04/12/c1084-power-switch-replacement/
I saw a video recently of a guy that repaired multiple layers of the yoke windings and picked each busted winding apart, used similar gauge speaker wire to bridge the open connections, then used solder mask to paint over and re-flatten the repaied areas. The screen worked great after that.
Awesome video, bold repair on the yoke windings. I have had the same issue and think I have found a suitable yoke replacement. I've messaged you on twitter for more details
Great work! I had a spotless 1084S monitor later in my C64/Amiga days that ended up at my work being used as a CCTV monitor. It ended up failing after 24/7 power on for about 10 years. I wish I still had it now I have unboxed and repaired my old C64 gear.
I used to sell tvs and electronics in my 20s and there was one display model with that high frequency whine I could hear but customers couldn’t which would make it unpleasant whenever I was demonstrating a unit in that area of the store. Damn those young ears!
CRTs are now becoming cool to collect by the younger generations that never grew up with them. Every now and then I see a post on Reddit with a new owner complaining how the whine hurts their ears. Funny what we all just accepted and learned to ignore back then!
Good idea, yea maybe I'll peel off the packing tape I used on the rubber spacers and use kapton on the yoke itself. I may also replace the spacers entirely since they're clearly degrading with age and are a bit gummy now.
@@retrobitstv Definitely, packing tape exposed to even mild heat is going to have problems in the long run. Some bargain basement forms of kapton take have issues with the adhesive under sustained elevated temperatures too, so it's worth getting some decent stuff from somewhere reputable.
Really enjoyed this video. Glad to see your efforts yield some positive results. I’m in the uk and use a Phillips cm 8833 a very similar monitor to your 1084. It works perfectly well with 60hz RGB sources but displays only black and white composite 60hz images. I presumed this is because it’s a UK 50hz monitor. I actually passed up a boxed 1084s recently worried about reliability problems but after watching this maybe I’ll go back and see if it’s still available. Merry Christmas stay safe.
Most monitors and TVs will sync happily to 50 and 60Hz and with RGB input will display anything in color. On composite (and S-Video and RF) signals, the color information has to be decoded first. So depending on where you live, it will either have a PAL or NTSC decoder. (Although some, like e.g. some Sonys are multi-system). If you have the wrong decoder for the signal you feed it, color information cannot be decoded, so you'll get just a b/w picture. With RGB you feed the monitor the direct color signal, so nothing has to be decoded and you'll always get a color picture. The color encoding system also has nothing to do with the vertical sync frequency either, as there are countries that use NTSC with 50Hz or PAL with 60Hz. So in the UK you could for example set your original Xbox to PAL60 to get 60Hz video in color on a PAL-only TV.
Glad you enjoyed it! I have the same experience in reverse. My NTSC model can display a PAL image in b&w but cannot decode the color signal. The IC501 video decoder chip is probably a different model between regions if I had to guess, and on the PCB there are also different pathways for PAL and NTSC on the silkscreen and the components are missing from the PAL side.
Heya did you try a signal on the noisy monitor? To me it sounds like the horizontal oscillator is way off. (horizontal hold control would adjust it) Of course, the monitor won’t work anymore without a working yoke :-)
Hi Adrian, I did try both RGBi and NTSC signals when I first got the monitor home and the display was very clear and crisp - no issues with the image at all. I only had it on for a few seconds though because it was so loud!
@@retrobitstv Wow then clearly not a horizontal oscillator problem! Strange fault indeed. The corrosion on the deflection coil is so worrisome. What an annoying mystery!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Yea, the 11khz peak on the EQ has me puzzled as well. A commenter posted a link to another video wherein a consumer TV had similar coil deterioration around its rubber spacers. One thing of interest is that my "good" 1084 had nice solid new looking rubber and the "bad" 1084S had tacky-feeling deteriorated rubber. Perhaps it's a difference of run time and heat exposure causing the rubber to break down, and in that process corrosion of the magnet wire occurs. Need more data points.
@@retrobitstv Man I am so glad to have stumbled upon this video. I've got a 1084S that I got at an estate sale as well. I haven't even powered it on yet, since I didn't want to assume everything was OK without taking the case off. And while I'm in there, it's going to get new caps anyway. I'll be adding the SCART connector, ground wire, and rubber insulation / re-lacquer just in case. Thanks for potentially saving my yoke! :-D
I'd like to! There's a lot of precision in how packed the wires are; it's clearly been done by machine. Might be fun to try, I mean there's nothing to lose at this point :)
Cool video! I've been struggling with a 1902a and Magnovox equivalent for a bit. The 1902a was damaged in shipping and incurred several PCB cracks. Doesn't matter what I do, I seem to have a High Voltage issue. After what I thought was a thorough repair the HV shuts down almost immediately. :( I did have it where it would stay on, but produce an overly bright washed out image. Anyway, love these videos of people like me learning as we go. Keep'm coming!
I wish I could tell you that I knew what was causing your issue but I haven't experienced that particular issue myself. Maybe adjusting the screen control knob on your flyback (or sometimes neck board) might help if the image is too bright/washed out. Thanks for your feedback and good luck with your repairs!
Video eccellente,il 1084 e' un monitor che mi sta molto a cuore,e ho una collezione di questo modello.i tuoi mi piacciono molto,quella generazione e' stupenda,complimenti
I'm printing one of those lead benders! I'm glad you got the SCART working, tada.wav! Does the coil have any part numbers on it? Wouldn't be surprised if there were still some NOS parts out there. Also, I didn't know Commodore was in West Chester, PA!
also, instead of adjusting the purity rings. loosen the nut and rotate all the rings also try sliding it back and forth on the neck before turning any rings. another note you can see your yoke is slightly off. it needs rotated to the left from the front of the monitor. or to the right looking from the back. that could throw your purity rings off.
Thanks for the suggestions, I will spend some time adjusting the yoke and rings now that I know the display works. I just aligned the marks I made before and called it good for the video but that's a bit rough and also doesn't account for the front-to-back adjustment either.
14:30 Pro tip, when listening for noises it is helpful to get a big long screwdriver and put it up to your ear and then the part your trying to diagnose.
Thank you for this video! I have a 1084S with the SCART lid broken off. I was just wondering if it was that easy to just add a connector or if more stuff was missing. I guess I'll find out soon enough 😁 Thanks again 👌🏼
My attempts at stepping outside my comfort zone often end up with me breaking things worse. I don't stop though, because often enough the thing I'm attempting to troubleshoot or repair is already dead. I'm just a bit clumsy sometimes, and plastic can be brittle.
If you can with color monitors, just swap the tube and yoke together. There are usually small strips attached to the crt adjusting convergence and color purity that is paired with the tube/yoke combo.
Thanks for the suggestion! Both displays did have convergence strips installed so I may go back and swap the whole tube and return the yoke to its original home. Lots of things to fix for next time :)
Great video. I also put a few months ago a scart connector in my 1084. I got the same scrambled picture you have. Now I know where to look to fix it. At that moment I couldn't find something oine what could help me. Hope it will also work on my monitor.
@@retrobitstv thanks it works also for me. I have a clear picture now. I cut a paperclip to make the bridges for 9289 and 9274. Do you know what 9275 is. I have the 1084 so the mono one. Via scart i have no audio. My monitor also doesn't have a cable soldered to the place where the scart connector is.
I don't have the monitor opened up right now and the schematic I have doesn't show jumpers. If you can trace 9275 to the scart connector, you should be able to identify what it does from a pinout such as this one though: i.stack.imgur.com/slaGE.png
I got a Philips CM8833 (which these monitors are based on) when I got my first PC (also a Philips). I used it as TV too, until I got my first real TV years later. Even after I got other PCs with VGA outputs, I still used the CM8833. The only problem with the monitor was that the picture would sometimes jump up and down, and I never found out why (maybe an intermittent short in the yoke?). I wish I still had it; I could probably have fixed the problem with what I know now.
Funny that Philips made them. My first C128 was bought with a Magnavox Monitor that looked almost identical to the 1084 except with an 80-column RGBI hookup in the back and different color scheme.
I’ve always wondered how I ended up with a Philips monitor that looks exactly the same as the 1084. Only difference is that it came fitted with SCART from the factory, and has Philips branding instead of Commodore.
From Wikipedia: "Magnavox is the brand name worn by a line of products now made by Funai under license from trademark owner Philips." so it sounds like they really are all the same thing.
see how when you adjust the brightness, and it's darker on one side then the other. that's a bad retrace capacitor it can be mounted on the crt board. if there is not an electrolytic on the crt board then it's going to be on the main board.
Nice catch, I did notice that but didn't think much of it. I will check but I don't remember recapping the neck board at all when I did the main board several years ago. I'm sure there are a few caps on it though so I'll add that to my list. Thanks!
Hello. I bought a new 1084, but the power light is on, there is sound from the speaker but there is no picture. There is no sign of high voltage. When I press the power button, there is no sound from the flyback. Where should I look first?
@@retrobitstv: ...and no one's there to hear it, does it still make a sound?" Yes, of course it still makes a sound. My point was that some people say stuff like "If you look at [x thing], then [y happened]," when what they _should_ say, in order to make sense, is something like, "If you look at [x thing], then _you will _*_see_* that [y happened], since it isn't the looking that made the thing happen.
The noisy one, use an extension with a switch on it, left the monitor main switch on and quickly rock the extension switch on and off, if it turns on at the like, 10th time, you have my same problem, it's an AC zero crossing issue, I'm hunting it down on mine now, possibly a capacitor or a diode on the PSU side
hi there. Thanks for the video. Those are nice CRTs. I have a commodore 1084S monitor. It worked fine for years, but now the power switch in the back wont stay depressed. The monitor works fine if I hold in the switch. Can you tell me where to acquire the correct switch for replacement. And what kind of nightmare am I in for, to replace it? I never worked on a CRT before, but have taken them apart (the back sides) to clean them...thats about it. And I have basic soldering skills. Thanks
Yea, the switch failing is a common problem. There are still replacements around, here are some options: retro8bitshop.com/product/crt-monitor-power-switch-new/ www.wagneronline.com.au/pcb-mount-push-switch/switches/electronic-components/swp532-2979/348/pd/ monotech.fwscart.com/Power_Switch_for_1084S_or_CM8833/p6083514_21175494.aspx They're also on eBay. Here's a good guide on the procedure: www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/04/12/c1084-power-switch-replacement/
That one was easy, I just had to rotate the deflection yoke until the image was squared up properly. The only hard part is making sure not to get zapped while doing it.
How many of these monitors were sold under the "Philips" brand? I have one that looks exactly identical to the 1084. The only difference is that mine has Philips branding instead of Commodore, and it came fitted with SCART as built.
Yep, Philips and Magnavox both sold more or less the same model under their own brand names. Some of them have a black housing instead of beige as well.
Hey! I had the exact same failure on the deflection yoke on my 1084S-D1 two years ago. It had been shelved in a dry place for 10 years, and after powering it up it worked perfectly for 15-20 minutes, then the geometry suddenly got warped and then sizzling and magic smoke. I'm guessing the enamel on the coil wire cracks with age and then the copper begins to corrode. Really sad. It's not rocket science though, and it should be doable to rewind these coils. Let us know if you find a solution.
One of my 12 Commodore CRTs, an 1084S that was working fine up until yesterday. I was working with no problems a week ago last time I used my A1200. Then yesterday nothing when I turned it on to play my newest Infocom game on my A1200. Well not nothing. 1. The red power light was not coming on at all. 2. I'm pretty sure I was getting high voltage because the 4 different times I tried I could hear the high pitch spin up when I turned it on and also could hear the wind down when I pressed the power switch to turn it off. I have many spare CRTs so I just swapped it out and played the game that I was looking forward to playing. I have watched a ton of CRT repair videos from you and many other Commodore & retro computer RUclipsrs. This is not ringing any bells with the power light not coming on but the high voltage spinning up. Have you ever come across this?
The most common failure for these models is the flyback transformer failing. I had the same issue with my monitor years earlier. If you hear it making more noise than it did before when it was working - powering up and also powering off, that would match my experience with the flyback failing and the power supply going into overload protection. The good news is that 3rd party replacements are still available, unlike for example, a 1902.
@@retrobitstv Good morning and TY for helping me. I went and got my only other 1084S. This 2nd one has been on my list to work on. Its CVBS works with a great picture, but its RGB has always been a black screen (I was thinking since the CVBS works & no RGB video since I bought it that it might be a bad solder joint on the RGB side?). Well as soon as I turned it on the red power light came on and for the 1st time, I noticed the coils glowing orange through the vent slots. Its super early here and the room is dark other than my PC screen, so this is probably why I've never noticed this before. Ok back to the one that has stopped working, like I said the power light is not coming on and when I hear the High voltage wind up, I see no coil glow? Also, today the windup sound is not as loud and stops after 2 seconds. Also, today when I turn it off today the wind down sound is very quiet and only last for the same 2 seconds. F.Y.I. I have 2 fully working 1084, I'm letting you know this and wonder if need be, can we use parts from them for testing?
@@Charleshawn66 Yea that sounds like it could be bad solder joints on the DIN connector perhaps. That or the switch in the front panel that changes between CVBS and RGB. Based on what you say about the monitor that won't power up, it really does sound like the flyback to me. The part isn't easily swapped but you could try it if you really wanted a project. If it were me, I'd just order a replacement :)
very cool thank you , have you encountered an issue after recapping I'm having and issue with rgb and digital rgb input, AV works perfectly fine but no more RGB, it's driving me crazy I confirmed all the caps in the right place and matching value except the voltage is higher on some of them, I got the cap kit from consol5 I'm thinking the TDA3505 went bad for whatever reason
I haven't experienced that particular problem but it's possible a solder joint cracked somewhere on the board when you were reworking it? I'd start by tracing the pins for the RGB connector and check out each solder joint in sequence. Hopefully it's something simple 🤞
The Genesis works great via RGB SCART on the 1084S! Some consoles (PAL SNES comes to mind) don't provide a dedicated csync signal and instead rely on composite sync when using RGB. The mod I performed does not work with in this case. I get around that by using an external sync converter (SyncSlayer2). Mark from @TheRetroChannel did a video where he solved the composite sync issue with his PAL 1084 but I have yet to confirm his process will work on my NTSC unit.
@@retrobitstv thanks for getting back to me. I ask only cause my Genesis was giving the same out of sync picture like yours. My monitor is the 1084s-D1 but still got the same scrambled picture. Whats odd all my other consoles i tested work fine like the SNES, NES (rgb modded), sega Saturn, PS1 and the MiSTer with out doing any mods to the 1084s-D1. The Genesis is the only console that is not syncing.
@@shertz43 Hrm, just for fun on the MiSTer what is your composite_sync set to in mister.ini? If you change it to 1 and reboot does the 1084S-D1 lose sync? I have never owned a Daewoo 1084 so I'm not familiar with it's capabilities but the Philips models for sure can ingest composite sync on the HSYNC pin and decode it fine. Maybe the -D models can't do that which is why the Genesis isn't working right.
@@retrobitstv no the original Sega Genesis model 1 does not sync. All the consoles i tested (NES, SNES, Sega Saturn, PS1) including the mister all work fine. Just not the Genesis model 1.
Weird. I just acquired a 1084 not too long ago and it's having the same issue of the all pink Screen through composite. I have not tried RGB yet though
I did a little more poking around and discovered that the hue adjustment in the front panel isn't working at all. I checked the pot with my meter and it seems to be okay. The knob eventually feeds pin 17 of IC501 (video processor chip) so I suspect something is pulling that line high or to ground, effectively causing the knob to always be maxed out no matter where it's really set. That or the chip itself is becoming defective. I have yet to do any more troubleshooting than that though.
I have been tearing my hair out over this one. I checked all the discrete components that control the hue and everything else connected to IC501 and IC502. I replaced both ICs as well. Still haven't figure out what's causing the NTSC decoding to be pink yet, but it wasn't a bad chip.
Sorry to hear that :( Could be a flyback failure, that's pretty common on these models. It's what happened to mine the first time it died. As of several years ago, replacement flyback transformers were still available but they weren't a perfect match for the system.
I should look into SCARTing my 1084. But first I need to crack mine open as sometimes the picture pops off and I have to give the side of the monitor a light tap. Anyone have an idea what may be causing it?
That sounds like a dry/cracked solder joint. These monitors are known for that especially around the flyback transformer. I also had some cracked joints around the RCA ports in the back on mine.
@@retrobitstv Sounds like something I could deal with in 5-10 minutes probably. Wouldn't even have to crack open that RF shielding you showed. Doing that scares me. Edit: or are these solder issues ones that are under the rf shield?
@@CaptainRufus I had cracked solder joints on the neck board and those can be fixed without removing the RF shield. Everything else would require removal though. It's honestly not that bad, just takes a few minutes. A solder sucker helps a lot. Just don't try and pry the shield off or you'll tear off the ground plane from the mainboard.
When they are identical chassis, tubes and yokes, why swap a yoke and deal with reconverging instead of swapping the entire tube + yoke? That would have been 4 screws and a couple of plugs and done. Regarding the rubber eating the yoke winding's enamel, this was recently verified on another video about similar era TV's suffering the same problem: ruclips.net/video/pg0NM0IBToY/видео.html
That's good advice and I may yet perform that swap. Thanks for the video link! It's interesting to see this problem isn't limited to just this model of monitor. He seems to suggest it could be the rubber decomposing and off-gassing that causes a chemical reaction. I hope my lacquer+tape solution helps mitigate that somewhat but the more I think of it, the more I'm inclined to take the whole tube from the 1084 and transplant it in the 1084S because the rubber wedges in the former look to be in much better condition as well.
The 1702 does not natively ingest RGB but all color CRTs utilize an RGB signal internally. So, while not impossible, you're looking at a major project involving modifying the circuit board and cutting the case.
You did the WRONG THING!, you change the whole tube assembly. now you placed a perfectly fine yoke onto a tube with rubber spacers that are conductive!, short time before this yoke fails. But you could place Kaptan tape over the ends of the rubber spacers, to keep the yoke a little more insulated. Also the convergence will be shit, did you use the magnetic convergence assembly from the original tube, that would be a closer match esp from Total convergence setup-YUK.
"Theory"? An idea isn't a theory until it's _proven_ to at least some reasonable level before declared fact. Before that, you can only either have a guess or a hypothesis.
Back in the day when the power had failed of my 1084S I opened it up to see if I could fix it. While it was placed on the floor I accidentally kicked off the back print of the tube. It broke and filled up with air. That was the end of my monitor.
@@KippieBudgie: "Back print of the tube"? What's that? Whatever that is, it sounds sad, but isn't very related to my comment here, so it sounds like you got mixed up about whose you were trying to reply to.
![Alive and Kick[start]ing: eBay Amiga 1000 Revived?](/img/1.gif)
Note that the SCART mod depicted here only works with CSYNC. A more thorough conversion that also works with Composite Sync can be found in this video from The Retro Channel: ruclips.net/video/diQmmyWflwQ/видео.html
his mod is done a pal monitor. will it work on a ntsc monitor?
@@shertz43 I haven't tried it myself yet but I've been meaning to.
Thanks for the shout out. Great job adding that scart and attempting that yoke fix.
NP, thanks! First time for everything but I'm learning :)
being a 52 yr old tv tech. Magnovox also sold these monitors with various connectors on the back so you should be able to get a 13" magnovox monitor and pull the yoke from it. i have even pulled yokes from different brand monitors and used them in different monitors. just make sure the resistance measurement is close to the original. if it's really close then you should be able to make some adjustments on the main board in the horizontal and vertical deflection circuits to adjust picture to make it fit. good luck
Hay Ben do you still work on monitors? I know, I know enough that I could hurt myself or die from the high voltage. If so, are you close to Ohio? I want to get my monitors serviced but I really want to drive them there and then pick them up, so that they are not getting beat up in the mail.
Great info, thanks for sharing! I will keep an eye out for a suitable replacement. Does it matter if it's from a TV or a computer monitor as long as it's 13" and has a similar resistance and physical fitment?
@retrobits there are some Magnovox monitors that are obviously Phillips 1084 "siblings." Not as many features, but the same case, etc. Those are the ones that will be a match.
Ive never seen this level of indepth repair anywhere else, so good to have this as a reference..
That was an amazing repair. My biggest concern about working on CRT monitors is the high voltage that might (probably will) be present inside the tube and caps, etc., and how to safely discharge them. I have some experience with low voltage DC circuits, but I shied away from AC circuits because of the high voltage. I have two Commodore CRT monitors I need to repair. I saw you discharge your CRT but I would need detailed instructions on how to do it properly, so I don't fry myself. I'm getting older, but I'm not quite ready to be pushing up daisies. 😊Nice job. I learned a lot.
Thank you so much for this one! I will now try to add scart to my PAL 1084s 👍
I always wanted one of these monitors! I would see them, looking fantastic, in the games stores I would visit every weekend.
Thanks for the scart mod tip! I soldered scart connector to my PAL 1084S a month ago and had the same issue with sync. Now that I added the two jumpers, I have stable image through scart. Previously, I thought that I have to solder a number of missing components to the board.
Great, glad it helped and you got it working!
It's crazy that you figured it out with jumper wires on 9289 and 9274, legend
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew I would love it! Yep!! Awesome seeing your original 1084 working again. After your previous 1084 video, I opened up my Magnavox 8CM515 and YES, it has the traces for a SCART connector just like the 1084! I have the parts already and thanks to your bodge wire example, I’m much more confident I can get SCART working on this too. Thanks!
Nice! Good luck with your upgrade 👍
Love the video. I'm 39 and I am legit the exact same shoes when it comes to console/ hardware repairs. I even made a tutorial on replacing a Commodore Monitor Button which was a breeze but man that monitor was awfully dirty. However it now has a good home. And yes, I 100% agree that we should all come together and learn from each other. Cause i too wing stuff.
Oh boy. You are going to get us CRT junkies satisfied with this one.
„Two out of three ain‘t bad.“ Cheers!
I was so anticipating you rewinding the yoke. Also, the lacquer easily penetrates the coil if you put it in a vacuum after you apply it.
Maybe in part 3 :) Good tip, thanks!
OK, so now I'm curious. :-) Where would one simply put their CRT yoke in a vacuum? (My space ship is in the shop.)
I bought one from a good friend for 30 bucks. It's in my closet right now.
Classic games look so damn good on them!
That's a fantastic deal! I'd hold on to that :)
Great video! Just got myself a 1084 mono version, works nicely but I really need SCART for it and ordered one from ebay.
Excellent work! I have a bad power switch in my 1084S, can't wait to see part 2. Taking the case off looks easy enough, hopefully you don't need to mess with the bottom RF shield to get at the switch connections.
Thanks! What's funny is the power switch in the *good* 1084S failed right after making this video so I'll be replacing them both it looks like. Should be do-able without messing with the RF shield at all. There's a write-up here: www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/04/12/c1084-power-switch-replacement/
I saw a video recently of a guy that repaired multiple layers of the yoke windings and picked each busted winding apart, used similar gauge speaker wire to bridge the open connections, then used solder mask to paint over and re-flatten the repaied areas. The screen worked great after that.
I saw that too! I may have a go at it myself; it'd be nice to get it fixed.
0:20 - That look is priceless. :D Great video.
Thanks! 😄
Really excellent cadence!! I sure wish I could either do a SCART mod to my 1702 or find 1084 NTSC
Awesome video, bold repair on the yoke windings. I have had the same issue and think I have found a suitable yoke replacement. I've messaged you on twitter for more details
I have the same problem. I'd love to know what yoke replacement you have found.
@@joel_ricci there's a common tube in super cheap off brand mid 2000's 14" CRTs. the model number is 37SX110Y22
I've been looking forward to this now im in the process of fixing my own variant of the 1084 :D
Good luck with your repairs!
Great work! I had a spotless 1084S monitor later in my C64/Amiga days that ended up at my work being used as a CCTV monitor. It ended up failing after 24/7 power on for about 10 years. I wish I still had it now I have unboxed and repaired my old C64 gear.
That scart mod was awesome, good stuff.
I'm pretty stoked it was that simple!
Great content, TYVM!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I used to sell tvs and electronics in my 20s and there was one display model with that high frequency whine I could hear but customers couldn’t which would make it unpleasant whenever I was demonstrating a unit in that area of the store. Damn those young ears!
CRTs are now becoming cool to collect by the younger generations that never grew up with them. Every now and then I see a post on Reddit with a new owner complaining how the whine hurts their ears. Funny what we all just accepted and learned to ignore back then!
The 1084 of Theseus. Nice...
Thanks for the video. Kapton tape might be better than lacquer for insulating the yokes.
Good idea, yea maybe I'll peel off the packing tape I used on the rubber spacers and use kapton on the yoke itself. I may also replace the spacers entirely since they're clearly degrading with age and are a bit gummy now.
@@retrobitstv Definitely, packing tape exposed to even mild heat is going to have problems in the long run. Some bargain basement forms of kapton take have issues with the adhesive under sustained elevated temperatures too, so it's worth getting some decent stuff from somewhere reputable.
Great, high quality content, keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
Really enjoyed this video. Glad to see your efforts yield some positive results. I’m in the uk and use a Phillips cm 8833 a very similar monitor to your 1084. It works perfectly well with 60hz RGB sources but displays only black and white composite 60hz images. I presumed this is because it’s a UK 50hz monitor. I actually passed up a boxed 1084s recently worried about reliability problems but after watching this maybe I’ll go back and see if it’s still available. Merry Christmas stay safe.
Most monitors and TVs will sync happily to 50 and 60Hz and with RGB input will display anything in color. On composite (and S-Video and RF) signals, the color information has to be decoded first. So depending on where you live, it will either have a PAL or NTSC decoder. (Although some, like e.g. some Sonys are multi-system). If you have the wrong decoder for the signal you feed it, color information cannot be decoded, so you'll get just a b/w picture. With RGB you feed the monitor the direct color signal, so nothing has to be decoded and you'll always get a color picture.
The color encoding system also has nothing to do with the vertical sync frequency either, as there are countries that use NTSC with 50Hz or PAL with 60Hz. So in the UK you could for example set your original Xbox to PAL60 to get 60Hz video in color on a PAL-only TV.
Glad you enjoyed it! I have the same experience in reverse. My NTSC model can display a PAL image in b&w but cannot decode the color signal. The IC501 video decoder chip is probably a different model between regions if I had to guess, and on the PCB there are also different pathways for PAL and NTSC on the silkscreen and the components are missing from the PAL side.
Just started watching you. Great content.
Thanks and welcome!
yet another awesome video and i hope you can fix that yoke in the near future
Thanks, me too!
Heya did you try a signal on the noisy monitor? To me it sounds like the horizontal oscillator is way off. (horizontal hold control would adjust it) Of course, the monitor won’t work anymore without a working yoke :-)
Hi Adrian, I did try both RGBi and NTSC signals when I first got the monitor home and the display was very clear and crisp - no issues with the image at all. I only had it on for a few seconds though because it was so loud!
@@retrobitstv Wow then clearly not a horizontal oscillator problem! Strange fault indeed. The corrosion on the deflection coil is so worrisome. What an annoying mystery!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Yea, the 11khz peak on the EQ has me puzzled as well. A commenter posted a link to another video wherein a consumer TV had similar coil deterioration around its rubber spacers. One thing of interest is that my "good" 1084 had nice solid new looking rubber and the "bad" 1084S had tacky-feeling deteriorated rubber. Perhaps it's a difference of run time and heat exposure causing the rubber to break down, and in that process corrosion of the magnet wire occurs. Need more data points.
@@retrobitstv Man I am so glad to have stumbled upon this video. I've got a 1084S that I got at an estate sale as well. I haven't even powered it on yet, since I didn't want to assume everything was OK without taking the case off. And while I'm in there, it's going to get new caps anyway. I'll be adding the SCART connector, ground wire, and rubber insulation / re-lacquer just in case. Thanks for potentially saving my yoke! :-D
Re-wind that yoke, man! It'll be a learning process, painstaking, and it might not work. But we'll be here for it if you choose to :)
I'd like to! There's a lot of precision in how packed the wires are; it's clearly been done by machine. Might be fun to try, I mean there's nothing to lose at this point :)
@@retrobitstv That's the spirit!
Cool video! I've been struggling with a 1902a and Magnovox equivalent for a bit. The 1902a was damaged in shipping and incurred several PCB cracks. Doesn't matter what I do, I seem to have a High Voltage issue. After what I thought was a thorough repair the HV shuts down almost immediately. :( I did have it where it would stay on, but produce an overly bright washed out image. Anyway, love these videos of people like me learning as we go. Keep'm coming!
I wish I could tell you that I knew what was causing your issue but I haven't experienced that particular issue myself. Maybe adjusting the screen control knob on your flyback (or sometimes neck board) might help if the image is too bright/washed out. Thanks for your feedback and good luck with your repairs!
Really cool video. Nice work :)
Thanks!
Video eccellente,il 1084 e' un monitor che mi sta molto a cuore,e ho una collezione di questo modello.i tuoi mi piacciono molto,quella generazione e' stupenda,complimenti
I'm printing one of those lead benders! I'm glad you got the SCART working, tada.wav! Does the coil have any part numbers on it? Wouldn't be surprised if there were still some NOS parts out there. Also, I didn't know Commodore was in West Chester, PA!
There is a sticker with a p/n on the yoke but it's not visible in any of the video. I'll check next time I open it up.
also, instead of adjusting the purity rings. loosen the nut and rotate all the rings also try sliding it back and forth on the neck before turning any rings. another note you can see your yoke is slightly off. it needs rotated to the left from the front of the monitor. or to the right looking from the back. that could throw your purity rings off.
Thanks for the suggestions, I will spend some time adjusting the yoke and rings now that I know the display works. I just aligned the marks I made before and called it good for the video but that's a bit rough and also doesn't account for the front-to-back adjustment either.
14:30
Pro tip, when listening for noises it is helpful to get a big long screwdriver and put it up to your ear and then the part your trying to diagnose.
That works on cars and most machines however we are dealing with equipment running north of 10,000 volts and 1/4 inch can mean 12 volts or 12,000
Thank you for this video! I have a 1084S with the SCART lid broken off. I was just wondering if it was that easy to just add a connector or if more stuff was missing. I guess I'll find out soon enough 😁 Thanks again 👌🏼
My attempts at stepping outside my comfort zone often end up with me breaking things worse. I don't stop though, because often enough the thing I'm attempting to troubleshoot or repair is already dead. I'm just a bit clumsy sometimes, and plastic can be brittle.
I know that feeling! Small steps are still steps and mistakes are how you learn :)
If you can with color monitors, just swap the tube and yoke together. There are usually small strips attached to the crt adjusting convergence and color purity that is paired with the tube/yoke combo.
Thanks for the suggestion! Both displays did have convergence strips installed so I may go back and swap the whole tube and return the yoke to its original home. Lots of things to fix for next time :)
Great video. I also put a few months ago a scart connector in my 1084. I got the same scrambled picture you have. Now I know where to look to fix it. At that moment I couldn't find something oine what could help me. Hope it will also work on my monitor.
Thanks! Hope you get yours working too!
@@retrobitstv thanks it works also for me. I have a clear picture now. I cut a paperclip to make the bridges for 9289 and 9274. Do you know what 9275 is. I have the 1084 so the mono one. Via scart i have no audio. My monitor also doesn't have a cable soldered to the place where the scart connector is.
I don't have the monitor opened up right now and the schematic I have doesn't show jumpers. If you can trace 9275 to the scart connector, you should be able to identify what it does from a pinout such as this one though: i.stack.imgur.com/slaGE.png
@@retrobitstv i have audio now. I soldered a litte wire to pin 6 of the scart. (Left audio) to the audio in rca.
@@Geke86 Awesome, glad to hear you got it working!
I got a Philips CM8833 (which these monitors are based on) when I got my first PC (also a Philips). I used it as TV too, until I got my first real TV years later. Even after I got other PCs with VGA outputs, I still used the CM8833. The only problem with the monitor was that the picture would sometimes jump up and down, and I never found out why (maybe an intermittent short in the yoke?). I wish I still had it; I could probably have fixed the problem with what I know now.
Funny that Philips made them. My first C128 was bought with a Magnavox Monitor that looked almost identical to the 1084 except with an 80-column RGBI hookup in the back and different color scheme.
I’ve always wondered how I ended up with a Philips monitor that looks exactly the same as the 1084. Only difference is that it came fitted with SCART from the factory, and has Philips branding instead of Commodore.
From Wikipedia: "Magnavox is the brand name worn by a line of products now made by Funai under license from trademark owner Philips." so it sounds like they really are all the same thing.
Philips used the Magnavox brand name in the USA because their company name was too similar to both Phillips and Philco.
SCART forever.
😃
see how when you adjust the brightness, and it's darker on one side then the other. that's a bad retrace capacitor it can be mounted on the crt board. if there is not an electrolytic on the crt board then it's going to be on the main board.
Nice catch, I did notice that but didn't think much of it. I will check but I don't remember recapping the neck board at all when I did the main board several years ago. I'm sure there are a few caps on it though so I'll add that to my list. Thanks!
On a lesser crt that's maybe losing colour, I'd try one of those xy vector graphics conversion kits
Balls!
Bollocks sounds much more dignified but I'm not a Brit so... :P
Hello. I bought a new 1084, but the power light is on, there is sound from the speaker but there is no picture. There is no sign of high voltage. When I press the power button, there is no sound from the flyback. Where should I look first?
Hey, I bet it arrives at J9289 even if we _don't_ look!
If a tree falls in the forest...
@@retrobitstv: ...and no one's there to hear it, does it still make a sound?" Yes, of course it still makes a sound. My point was that some people say stuff like "If you look at [x thing], then [y happened]," when what they _should_ say, in order to make sense, is something like, "If you look at [x thing], then _you will _*_see_* that [y happened], since it isn't the looking that made the thing happen.
The noisy one, use an extension with a switch on it, left the monitor main switch on and quickly rock the extension switch on and off, if it turns on at the like, 10th time, you have my same problem, it's an AC zero crossing issue, I'm hunting it down on mine now, possibly a capacitor or a diode on the PSU side
hi there. Thanks for the video. Those are nice CRTs. I have a commodore 1084S monitor. It worked fine for years, but now the power switch in the back wont stay depressed. The monitor works fine if I hold in the switch. Can you tell me where to acquire the correct switch for replacement. And what kind of nightmare am I in for, to replace it? I never worked on a CRT before, but have taken them apart (the back sides) to clean them...thats about it. And I have basic soldering skills. Thanks
Yea, the switch failing is a common problem. There are still replacements around, here are some options:
retro8bitshop.com/product/crt-monitor-power-switch-new/
www.wagneronline.com.au/pcb-mount-push-switch/switches/electronic-components/swp532-2979/348/pd/
monotech.fwscart.com/Power_Switch_for_1084S_or_CM8833/p6083514_21175494.aspx
They're also on eBay. Here's a good guide on the procedure:
www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/04/12/c1084-power-switch-replacement/
Is "1084" a reference to the design date (oct 84)? I've always wondered this.
You got really lucky that shorted yoke didn't blow the HOT. Usually when the yoke goes the chassis pops too.
Fortunately I have a few spares on hand since the first one died when the flyback went!
How did you fixed the crooked image? Do you have a video explaining how to fix that?❤ 20:01
That one was easy, I just had to rotate the deflection yoke until the image was squared up properly. The only hard part is making sure not to get zapped while doing it.
@@retrobitstv any recommendation for that?
How many of these monitors were sold under the "Philips" brand? I have one that looks exactly identical to the 1084. The only difference is that mine has Philips branding instead of Commodore, and it came fitted with SCART as built.
Yep, Philips and Magnavox both sold more or less the same model under their own brand names. Some of them have a black housing instead of beige as well.
@@retrobitstv Thank you for the explanation! Given that it’s been in my shed for 15+ years, I really ought to check on mine.
Hey! I had the exact same failure on the deflection yoke on my 1084S-D1 two years ago. It had been shelved in a dry place for 10 years, and after powering it up it worked perfectly for 15-20 minutes, then the geometry suddenly got warped and then sizzling and magic smoke. I'm guessing the enamel on the coil wire cracks with age and then the copper begins to corrode. Really sad. It's not rocket science though, and it should be doable to rewind these coils. Let us know if you find a solution.
My friend keeps trying to convince me to build a jig and try it. I said "sure, if you help me" so we'll see. Someday, maybe!
You can easily fix the power swith in two seconds by jamming a guitar pick into it on the side... 😂
Thats what i do anyway
One of my 12 Commodore CRTs, an 1084S that was working fine up until yesterday. I was working with no problems a week ago last time I used my A1200. Then yesterday nothing when I turned it on to play my newest Infocom game on my A1200. Well not nothing. 1. The red power light was not coming on at all. 2. I'm pretty sure I was getting high voltage because the 4 different times I tried I could hear the high pitch spin up when I turned it on and also could hear the wind down when I pressed the power switch to turn it off. I have many spare CRTs so I just swapped it out and played the game that I was looking forward to playing. I have watched a ton of CRT repair videos from you and many other Commodore & retro computer RUclipsrs. This is not ringing any bells with the power light not coming on but the high voltage spinning up. Have you ever come across this?
The most common failure for these models is the flyback transformer failing. I had the same issue with my monitor years earlier. If you hear it making more noise than it did before when it was working - powering up and also powering off, that would match my experience with the flyback failing and the power supply going into overload protection. The good news is that 3rd party replacements are still available, unlike for example, a 1902.
@@retrobitstv Good morning and TY for helping me. I went and got my only other 1084S. This 2nd one has been on my list to work on. Its CVBS works with a great picture, but its RGB has always been a black screen (I was thinking since the CVBS works & no RGB video since I bought it that it might be a bad solder joint on the RGB side?). Well as soon as I turned it on the red power light came on and for the 1st time, I noticed the coils glowing orange through the vent slots. Its super early here and the room is dark other than my PC screen, so this is probably why I've never noticed this before. Ok back to the one that has stopped working, like I said the power light is not coming on and when I hear the High voltage wind up, I see no coil glow? Also, today the windup sound is not as loud and stops after 2 seconds. Also, today when I turn it off today the wind down sound is very quiet and only last for the same 2 seconds. F.Y.I. I have 2 fully working 1084, I'm letting you know this and wonder if need be, can we use parts from them for testing?
@@Charleshawn66 Yea that sounds like it could be bad solder joints on the DIN connector perhaps. That or the switch in the front panel that changes between CVBS and RGB. Based on what you say about the monitor that won't power up, it really does sound like the flyback to me. The part isn't easily swapped but you could try it if you really wanted a project. If it were me, I'd just order a replacement :)
corrosion on the deflection coil maybe use ultra sonic bath
very cool thank you , have you encountered an issue after recapping I'm having and issue with rgb and digital rgb input, AV works perfectly fine but no more RGB, it's driving me crazy I confirmed all the caps in the right place and matching value except the voltage is higher on some of them, I got the cap kit from consol5 I'm thinking the TDA3505 went bad for whatever reason
I haven't experienced that particular problem but it's possible a solder joint cracked somewhere on the board when you were reworking it? I'd start by tracing the pins for the RGB connector and check out each solder joint in sequence. Hopefully it's something simple 🤞
I have a 1902A that also has place for a scart connector on the mainboard, but cant find any info about it, weird
So did the Sega Genesis work after installing the jumpers for the scart connector?
The Genesis works great via RGB SCART on the 1084S! Some consoles (PAL SNES comes to mind) don't provide a dedicated csync signal and instead rely on composite sync when using RGB. The mod I performed does not work with in this case. I get around that by using an external sync converter (SyncSlayer2). Mark from @TheRetroChannel did a video where he solved the composite sync issue with his PAL 1084 but I have yet to confirm his process will work on my NTSC unit.
@@retrobitstv thanks for getting back to me. I ask only cause my Genesis was giving the same out of sync picture like yours. My monitor is the 1084s-D1 but still got the same scrambled picture. Whats odd all my other consoles i tested work fine like the SNES, NES (rgb modded), sega Saturn, PS1 and the MiSTer with out doing any mods to the 1084s-D1. The Genesis is the only console that is not syncing.
@@shertz43 Hrm, just for fun on the MiSTer what is your composite_sync set to in mister.ini? If you change it to 1 and reboot does the 1084S-D1 lose sync? I have never owned a Daewoo 1084 so I'm not familiar with it's capabilities but the Philips models for sure can ingest composite sync on the HSYNC pin and decode it fine. Maybe the -D models can't do that which is why the Genesis isn't working right.
@@retrobitstv no the original Sega Genesis model 1 does not sync. All the consoles i tested (NES, SNES, Sega Saturn, PS1) including the mister all work fine. Just not the Genesis model 1.
Weird. I just acquired a 1084 not too long ago and it's having the same issue of the all pink Screen through composite. I have not tried RGB yet though
I did a little more poking around and discovered that the hue adjustment in the front panel isn't working at all. I checked the pot with my meter and it seems to be okay. The knob eventually feeds pin 17 of IC501 (video processor chip) so I suspect something is pulling that line high or to ground, effectively causing the knob to always be maxed out no matter where it's really set. That or the chip itself is becoming defective. I have yet to do any more troubleshooting than that though.
I have been tearing my hair out over this one. I checked all the discrete components that control the hue and everything else connected to IC501 and IC502. I replaced both ICs as well. Still haven't figure out what's causing the NTSC decoding to be pink yet, but it wasn't a bad chip.
I have a 1084s that just died a while ago. Black screen, no power light but can hear a squeal when i turn it off.
Sorry to hear that :( Could be a flyback failure, that's pretty common on these models. It's what happened to mine the first time it died. As of several years ago, replacement flyback transformers were still available but they weren't a perfect match for the system.
three boards on Raspberry Pi around 24:50?
It's a MiSTer which is the FPGA based retro gaming device.
Got you covered! ruclips.net/p/PLAFTE1bkmSE112rD2Wr_6leUeR9CYgZLV
I should look into SCARTing my 1084. But first I need to crack mine open as sometimes the picture pops off and I have to give the side of the monitor a light tap. Anyone have an idea what may be causing it?
That sounds like a dry/cracked solder joint. These monitors are known for that especially around the flyback transformer. I also had some cracked joints around the RCA ports in the back on mine.
@@retrobitstv Sounds like something I could deal with in 5-10 minutes probably. Wouldn't even have to crack open that RF shielding you showed. Doing that scares me. Edit: or are these solder issues ones that are under the rf shield?
@@CaptainRufus I had cracked solder joints on the neck board and those can be fixed without removing the RF shield. Everything else would require removal though. It's honestly not that bad, just takes a few minutes. A solder sucker helps a lot. Just don't try and pry the shield off or you'll tear off the ground plane from the mainboard.
When they are identical chassis, tubes and yokes, why swap a yoke and deal with reconverging instead of swapping the entire tube + yoke? That would have been 4 screws and a couple of plugs and done. Regarding the rubber eating the yoke winding's enamel, this was recently verified on another video about similar era TV's suffering the same problem: ruclips.net/video/pg0NM0IBToY/видео.html
That's good advice and I may yet perform that swap. Thanks for the video link! It's interesting to see this problem isn't limited to just this model of monitor. He seems to suggest it could be the rubber decomposing and off-gassing that causes a chemical reaction. I hope my lacquer+tape solution helps mitigate that somewhat but the more I think of it, the more I'm inclined to take the whole tube from the 1084 and transplant it in the 1084S because the rubber wedges in the former look to be in much better condition as well.
Do you think RGB SCART could be added to a 1702 model Commodore monitor?
The 1702 does not natively ingest RGB but all color CRTs utilize an RGB signal internally. So, while not impossible, you're looking at a major project involving modifying the circuit board and cutting the case.
@@retrobitstv gotcha, thanks for the info!
Thanks for your good content man!!! 😎I will try to repair my noisy 1084S... 😅Or does anybody near Montreal can do it for me for some $$$ please?!?😏
You did the WRONG THING!, you change the whole tube assembly. now you placed a perfectly fine yoke onto a tube with rubber spacers that are conductive!, short time before this yoke fails. But you could place Kaptan tape over the ends of the rubber spacers, to keep the yoke a little more insulated.
Also the convergence will be shit, did you use the magnetic convergence assembly from the original tube, that would be a closer match esp from Total convergence setup-YUK.
I put the yoke back on it's original tube and swapped the whole assembly over a few days after!
@@retrobitstv that’s awesome. The whole time I was watching, I was like… why didn’t he just??? 😆
"Theory"? An idea isn't a theory until it's _proven_ to at least some reasonable level before declared fact. Before that, you can only either have a guess or a hypothesis.
Back in the day when the power had failed of my 1084S I opened it up to see if I could fix it. While it was placed on the floor I accidentally kicked off the back print of the tube. It broke and filled up with air. That was the end of my monitor.
@@KippieBudgie: "Back print of the tube"? What's that?
Whatever that is, it sounds sad, but isn't very related to my comment here, so it sounds like you got mixed up about whose you were trying to reply to.