Should Norris Have Been Selfish In Hungary?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Looking back at the Hungarian Grand Prix and the tense team radio messages that played out at both McLaren and Red Bull as the papaya team made life difficult for itself en route to a 1-2, led by Oscar Piastri, while Max Verstappen pulled no punches in criticising his team's strategy and performance.
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All the radio communication to Lando was embarrassing. McLaren simply had to say - Lando, this is a team order, let Oscar pass.
Telling a driver to slow down and let a teammate overtake for a win was an awful order in this situation.
@@F1fan56What was awful was not following usual protocol and letting Oscar pit first.
@@Squonk0608- they were guarding against Ham.
Piastri didn't earn 1st place, he was slower and it was a pity win for him.
@@teekay_1In what way didn’t he earn it? Fabulous move in the first corner, controlled the race and then got undercut.
The race felt like a battle between drivers and race engineers
Right?! To the point of distraction!🏁🙄
The team made this much harder than it needed to be, again. No point blaming either of the drivers.
Honestly, no they didn't.
The strategy was sound. Protect the 1-2.
The only factor they didn't expect, was Norris being silly about it. If Norris just rolls with it, it's a perfect strat.
I think, they didn't even consider that they couldn't trust him.
@@absurdist5134 how many multiple world championship drivers have you seen that happily give up 1st place? You think Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen are 'silly'? None of them would have inverted positions like Norris did. The team should have favoured the driver that has the best chance of being world champion or never have put Norris in that position in the first place. But they did. And Norris rightly held on to the win and did what all those esteemed names before him did. Until he didn't. Let's see how that works out for him in the long run.
I agree, Maclaren should've been clear & precise on their calls, letting both drivers know exactly what they were doing & wat was expected of them, full stop...the onus was never on the driver's
@@absurdist5134pit Pastries first= he wins, no worries.
I agree with all punters saying the complicated things
@@absurdist5134Multi 21.
It's the team that fucked it up for both drivers. They created a situation where neither of them could win on merit. It left a lose/lose as the only outcome. Both Lando and Oscar should be furious about this shit-show. Especially because it wasn't the first blunder. It is absolutely ridicules to make your drivers pay for your own stupidity.
Totaly agree! You’ve got it spot on!
What rubbish. Drivers are paid employees and nothing more. They do as they are told until they put money back into the team to get them in the position they are in. As an employee you don’t follow the team rules there are consequences. He drives for me, he sits out the next race at home like the little boy he is. This is the sort of dissent that will come back way harder than points. The next thing we see are team mates crashing, pit instructions ignored. Discipline and respect are required by these glorified, moaning complaining drama queens.
Spot on.
@@HSE2inc Is that so? Then why do teams not hire two monkeys to drive those cars?
Discipline and respect goes both ways. Those guys are not there for the money, so they are not paid employees. As a matter of fact: every company that treads their personal as paid property will never in a million years will reach anything epic.
Andrea Stella should have stepped in much sooner with clear directive. ending in "then we (as team McLaren ) will discuss it after the race. That would have been better instead of the radio messages that I believe just made ut look even worse for McLaren...just my thoughts.
👉Thank you Marc. Excellent dissection of the race, team dynamics and possible "things" to come . Onto SPA.🏁
Piastri should have gotten the first pit stop instead of Lando, so the team made a mistake, imo. If you want to become a champion you have to be a bit selfish and take everything you can, I think that Max would never do that. So the team fucked up.
If they do that, and there's a hiccup with Norris' pit, they lose the 1-2.
That makes no sense for a team to risk.
@@absurdist5134 Lewis' pace was in another postal code. Them trying to cover him and therefore servicing Lando first was an overreaction.
@@absurdist5134This is cope, Lewis was nowhere.
@@Don-Royall You can just look this up, Lewis was down to an about 6 second gap (presuming a clean pit stop for Norris) and gaining over a second a lap.
So McLaren DID have to react, fairly soon, and their window for a mistake even when they did pit was something like 4 seconds. That's not a lot.
@@absurdist5134 Lewis second stint waa nowhere though.
I was shocked the first few laps after the hard change he was the fastest man on track then just bail, maybe he wanted to mess with Max.
Ultimately the team made a terrible error by pitting Lando first and allowing him to undercut Piastri. It was a bizarre call that exposed simple issues they really need to address.
Then they guilt tripped Lando for their own error, which was quite frankly awful - however the alternative, was equally as bad to be honest. In the end probably it worked out better this way, but still how they can pit Lando first instead of Oscar when he isn't under any threat at all was peak levels of incompetence.
It wasn't bizarre at all.
It's to protect the 1-2. That's a good idea.
The only thing they didn't realise is that Norris would do that. They, wrongly it turns out, trusted him to be cool.
Mclaren clearly planted a seed in Landos mind - the seed that he never was number 1 in the team. Ricciardo was the prefered winner in 21, and Lando was told not to race him 'for the good of the team'. Again it was 'for the good of the team'. And the veiled radiothreats were just the icing on the cake...
McLaren need to wake up and right now he’s #1. Leads races 9/4, leads quali 10/3, leads fastest lap 8/4 and is 40 points ahead. Would have been 47 if they’d left the order after the stops. The stats prove that so far this year he’s #1 and both of them aren’t going to catch Max. Still unlikely anyone will but best chance is Lando so the team should have favored him if they are serious about winning the championship. Oscar is doing great but he’s statistically #2 and we don’t want teams making first corner agreements.
@@davidLPST-100% right.
Oscar Piastri is a great talent. He was odds on to win a race this year on pure merit. Something to look back on and remember with pride. McLaren completely robbed him, and the fans, of that opportunity. This wasn’t Coulthard and Hakkinen, when Mika had been in the sport for years and needed a win to get him going. This is a guy in only his second season. Team orders, at any time in the season, absolutely suck. This early in the season, just to get a statistic for Oscar….absolutely shameful. The sport was robbed by McLaren, because they took away any true fight on track. They made it awkward for the two drivers and the fans. It was an empty victory for poor Piastri, he deserved a better first victory.
Oscar knows it was a gift.
Was thinking maybe Piastri should have refused the overtake and 'tainted' victory and let Norris win. I am sure Oscar is going to win a clean one soon enough...
@@eleghari exactly.
Piastris manager is Mark Multi21 Webber.......he would have been screaming in the background at McLaren and was likely on the phone to his old boss asking if he wants another driver if Max leaves....
Absolutely should happen
@@mickmckpng3153 amen
Mark Webber was in London supporting Mitch Evans at the Formula E final race. Mark is Mitch’s manager as well. Mind you, the previous weekend, he was having good old time socialising with Christian Horner at the Goodwood Festival of Speed.
@@ancient1946- but definitely a number 2. And I was no big fan of Vet.
Piastri wouldn't have cared, and neither would Mark. They know what is ahead and there's no bitching coming from them. Vettel looked like a complete knob that day, and Webber called him out.
What McLaren created in Hungary was an impossible situation. No matter who crossed the line first, there would’ve been a bitter taste in the mouth. A glorious one-two for the team was seriously devalued. They were naive.
Oscar clearly keeps a very cool head.
People say if Max or Schumacher was asked to do that, they would have both refused. I say if Lewis was in Lando's car and asked to do that, he would have given him the place, waited to the next turn (maybe got out of the DRS zone for a split second) and hunted down Oscar. Lando should have given Piastri the place on lap 48, and then gave himself 22 laps to race him. Lando was way faster than Pisatri too. Sulking for 20 laps and then giving Oscar the place, served no one.
That would look cynical..might as well keep the position
@@micahkiyimba8641why. They were free to race. Lando should have given it back right away and passed him via DRS. Lando screwed up
Stella has done wonders for McLaren in alot of ways but the way they talk to the drivers and the indecision re tyres in previous races and strategies seems to me like they are making very hard work of what should be easy wins .
I liked DC's thoughts that perhaps Andrea Stella was stress testing the team.
Speaking as a McLaren and Lando fan, I think the McLaren issue depends on information we don't have. If Lando was told he was pitting first and would have to let his team mate through, then I understand the position of the team order. But, if he was told to pit to cover off a car behind, and nothing more, then why should he give up a win? But we don't know exactly what he was told, so we can only guess. It was a great race though, for lots of reasons.
here's the curve-ball though... earlier in the race they told Lando that 'he could race the Papaya car'.
If Lando was thinking straight, he could have given the place back immediately, then, held back a couple of laps, then continued to put the pressure onto Oscar, enacting his own overtake later in the race and won.
I'd have thought that this would have placed him in an even stronger position in the team than gapping him by 6 seconds would have ever have done.
THIS. There was comparatively little risk for Lando; Lewis was something like 7 seconds or more behind Oscar when he came out of the pits. I assumed when it happened that Lando would lift on the start/finish straight of the next lap, allowing Oscar to easily close the 1.5 sec between them, then race him til the end. Cards on the table I’m an Aussie and a massive Piastri fan, but if Lando had given the place back immediately and win after racing to the end, I would have been totally ok with that (I’m also a McLaren fan so a 1/2 would be awesome regardless).
It feels like Lando was thinking a few things at once: I need to show the team I am the no. 1 driver; I’ve missed out on a few P1’s I really should have had recently so I deserve this; and it makes sense as P2 in the championship that I should take maximum points here.
As it played out, the whole thing was untidy, embarrassing for McLaren, and damaged Lando’s nice guy/good sportsman image with myself and no doubt other fans as well. Lucky for me I’m a well-adjusted adult, so I don’t now “hate” Lando or anything so stupid. I just wish the whole thing had been a bit more professionally handled.
@@JM87Fly I’m an F1 fan ultimately… that said, I am English and do profess to be a Lewis fan (although, that said, not sure I can be a Lewis fan AND a Ferrari supporter at the same time… so, THATs gonna be interesting).
I can see the nuance in the choice Lando was given so there’s no love lost there either way.
But, he could have dealt with it better if you looked at the instructions issued throughout the race as a whole.
Just because they were free to race earlier in the race, doesn’t mean they were going to be free to race at the end. After all they never told Oscar he was free to fight lando at the end, they told him “once you catch lando we will swap”. McLaren messed up and gave lando the winning strategy. They came over the radio and begged lando to give up the position. Neither driver did anything wrong today. The team did both drivers dirty. What should have been a great day for McLaren, is now tarnished. Made lando look like the bad guy, and made Oscar first victory a “gift”.
He was told he could race UNTIL around the 40s, meaning the last pit stop. The last stint was never meant to be a free-for-all.
I thought the same thing, unless they have a standing rule that they only race until the last pit stop. Who knows
Uncharted territory 🤣
I love how McLaren forgets its own history. They made DC move over for Mika in the past and also prevented Prost from overtaking Lauda in 1984
Good insight overall Mark
Why in the world would you sacrifice more points for lando to catch up to Max in the championship. Regardless of what team orders were supposed to be followed.
Lando isn’t going to come close to winning the championship. Verstappen is up by 2 races in points.
It was a very bad decision
@@LilSebastian_well Oscar certainly won’t challenge max , so the decision didn’t make any sense.
@@LilSebastian_ The future is of course unknown. Or are you claiming to be a time traveller?! Penalties, unreliability etc....
Because Lando didn't earn them. He failed at the start of the race, AGAIN, and Oscar drove away with it. Lando never sniffed DRS range and Oscar was more than +2-4 secs for most of the race. In almost all situations, the race leader gets preferential treatment (aka Plan A) and in this case Mclaren changed this up to ensure the 1-2 finish. Lando was ONLY in the position to win the race because of that decision. He pushed on his outlaps while Mclaren made Oscar stay out an extra lap to keep the two from being on top of each other after Oscar's stop. While Oscar was being told that they'd swap back positions, Lando was driving with his pants on fire. Had Mclaren handled this by pitting Oscar first, Lando would have been a distant second.
Marc Prestley weekend wrap was a bit more controlled and objective compared to Peter Windsor
EXACTLY!
PW has Max duvet set on his bed for sure 😂
@@beefsuprem0241 🤪
Windsor suggesting that Oscar had no right to that first corner apex, was the most ridiculous take I’ve seen on this whole thing. Needs to have a good hard look at himself.
@@MechanicalSculptor Peter was as reasonable as Max 😜
Watch that move of Max again, he came barreling into the corner with too much speed, locked up with no control, Hamilton left him ample space to make the corner. What does Max expect, Hamilton to drive straight off the rd?
The problem is the STEWARDS and FIA NEVER see anything Max does wrong. Whenever there is an incident pundits just like Nark akwzys say the same thing then when the Stewards do the usual and use clever trickery wording to make the driver Max has caused the collision with seem 50/50 responsible...THE SAME HAPPENED WITH LANDO IN AUSTRIA. It so sad to watch because sll that the STEWARDS and FIA are doing is giving Max a license to do what he wants and that is dangerous. Since 2021 Max was driving desperately in close battle and it was ignored as hard racing rb got the cost cap advantage from 2022 and Max was lauded for being able to literally race no his car was that fast which 2023 proved. Now through a number of factors MAx is back in the real world of having to compete with one of the few men that can put him in his place on track (fact) and here we are again seeing the same old tactics and disrespectful language which again is being side stepped instead of being called out even tho impressionable youngsters will be watching because most of the pundits...liberty media and FIA see Max as their cash cow. 7 race winners so far this season in what F1 fans want to see and im all for that cause the best driver in competative cars deserve a FAIR chance to win if they can deliver when it counts on track...FAIRLY. I predict if that rb stays the same Max will only get worse im afraid...the sad thing is I fear that the stewards and FIA will maintain the "look the other way" rule book for Mr Verstappen.
Well of course Max expects exactly that, he is MAX.
Dangerous communications between Wall and Lando. I would have said, There are 9 other teams in F1
If a direct team order is needed it should always be given by the team principal (or whoever's calling the shots), not using the driver's engineer as a middleman.
It feels like McLaren are in a similar position to BMW midway through 2008. The team management don't seem to realise they're genuinely in a strong position to fight for both championships and still have an also-ran lets try to get some podiums & hope for a win mindset.
Am of the opinion he should have not given up the lead.The guy he will be fighting for the title either this year or next would never let a win go. I remember max back in 2018 refusing to slip stream Ricciardo in Austria. That’s the level of person you are fighting. This was on the team.
By giving it up Norris might have the support from Piastri for the driver's title fight. I hope Norris made a good choice.
he should have let him pass and then overtaken him right after.
I watch F1 to see racing, not a team manipulating the race! If Oscar had been right up Lando's gearbox, then fair enough, swap the positions, but in reality, he was more than 6 seconds behind!!! Not only that, Oscar dropped the car twice on that last stint - he didn't deserve the win and should feel embarrassed at being gifted it. For disclosure, I'm a Lewis fan, so have no skin in this fight.
And if Piastri was given priority for the pitstops then Lando would have been 6+ seconds behind so what's your point? Lando only and I stress only had the opportunity because the team let him undercut Piastri. So how on earth would you say Lando earned it and Oscar didn't.
Dear M. Thank you, once again, for your balanced, non bias, clear take on the Hungary race. Best greetings from Amsterdam
Lando should not have been made to give the place back, it was McLaren’s decision to pit him first to give him the undercut to protect him from Lewis in a slower car, in addition Oscar went of track and lost time which was a major contributory factor in him coming out of the pits behind Lando.
Lando won that race and his victory was taken away from him, not the way to create harmony within the team!
Lewis was catching both McLarens. Had Lando have his pit stop 2 laps later, he would have joined the track behind HAM. The team was right in its decision.
But Lando didn't "win the race". If the team plays it straight, they pit Piastri first and Norris was never going to pass him, just like he couldn't in the early stage of the race.
Further more, that would ALSO put Norris at risk of losing 2nd as well.
er no.
@@absurdist5134
@@absurdist5134 Lando was clearly faster in the last stint and Oscar was far slower so I suspect he would have been able to pass Oscar
What was Lewis thinking? How dare he attempt to turn right on a right hand bend. 😂
Yup eejit. Everyone should immediately leave the track to allow the RBR torpedo Kid thru😂
Exactly. Max did nothing wrong what so ever. As the stewards confirmed he braked in exactly the same place as previous laps. And through sheer genius had much more speed that time, despite his DRS flap being open.
Turning into a corner ahead of Max and only leaving a couple of car widths of room on the inside, then changing his line to try and steer away from Max at the last moment... that's just dirty driving isn't it.
@@ibex485Boy you sure are slow. The OP was being sarcastic DOH!!🙄.
@@ibex485 you’re funny, in a very myopic way🤦♂️
@@Astronurd Er... so am , DOH!
Did you really think leaving space and steering away from the incoming divebomb is dirty driving? Or that braking in the same place as usual despite carrying more speed is the correct way to drive?
A balanced, rounded discussion with logic behind it all. It's very rare on the interweb these days.
Fully agree. It’s what Marc does so well.
@@JB-xd9dr Wow, such a witty name for the internet! I remember hearing it once, many years ago. I trhink it was my grandpa using it. Anyway, we all thought it was such a cool 1990s phrase.
Lando has now lost two victories due to team orders, making it difficult to imagine him remaining loyal to McLaren after this.
I heard Lando saying in an interview afterwards that Oscar did him some favors in the past. so that Lando now felt he needs te return it .Of course he would have wanted to win !!
Great video Marc. Was a really interesting race. I think you captured it really well, the human element was the entire show at Budapest. Max feels alone and is angry about it. Lewis drove brilliantly IMO. Showed the class above that he is all weekend. I am a massive McLaren fan. How do you bottle something that was unbottlable? It will be an ongoing problem. The car is a bullet. They have the best driver pairing. I’m an Australian also.. team comes first, they shouldn’t have swapped the cars
Hindsight being what it is, you are completely right. McLaren did not need to worry about covering Hamilton. I think the real lesson for Lando here is that he should have let Oscar by right away. Then fought him hard all the way to the end. He probably would have been able to pass Oscar for the win.
No way Senna, Schumacher or Vettel would have yielded that first place
Agreed
Or Verstappen...
I fully agree.... This is not how Norris will ever become a World Champion if he behaves like this.... Look at all past world champions... at some point they were all selfish and did everything to win! Verstappen, Hamilton, even Vettel with the multi-21 team orders... And yes Shumi and Senna also, you have to be selfish and be willing to do anything to win if you are to become a world champion.
Well, Hamilton did yield to Bottas.
You make your own history, don't try to be anyone else.
And yet, Hamilton has done this. - Do what’s right.
Oscar has been team player through and through. I cant even count how many times he has been given team orders and he has obliged without any fuss.
There is no way anyone can argue that Lando had earned that first place.
Funnily enough, they were allowed to fight eachother before the undercut saga, so if Lando had just given him a spot back instantly instead of throwing a hissy fit, there was a real chance he could have overtaken Oscar anyways for the win.
Moments like this really make me appreciate Lewis more. He had no problem giving 1st place back to Bottas on the same track and that was during a close championship fight.
There was no way McLaren would have allowed them to duke it out in the end. This is MCLAREN we're talking about. Mc-let's-throw-away-races-for-both-drivers-Laren would've done the safest thing and told Lando to not push.
Lewis is at another level. A real English gentleman attitude.
@@boyzinpain6814 Interestingly, Oscar seems to have a better relationship with Lewis than Lando does.
Has anyone else noticed how, after Adrian Newey announced he was leaving the F1 team, Red Bull's car development immediately nosedived? Now Red Bull can't reach the podium.
Probably not a coincidence. Newey would have been involved not only in design, but also in implementation of design on a week to week basis. No Newey, no optimisation.
Yes, but Christian Horner thinks Newy is irrelevant 😂
all the problems with christians investigation and Jos and christians beef plus other things are why newey leaving i think all the instability this is causing in the team is why there failing now not so much neweys departure
Yes mate it seem that no Newey no performance for Redbull
@@InterestedAmerican almost like he flipped a switch.
Yes he should have been selfish. as DC said when he gave Mika a win it set a tone in the team and shifted the dynamic and the rest is history.
I'm reminded of the agreement Hakkinen & Coulthard had at Mercedes. DC moved aside for Hakkinen, and regretted it for the rest of his career.
Not Merc, Mclaren. Still early for me :)
Forgot about that incident....then again it's a while ago !
Marc. Your viewpoints are again spot on. Thank you for being so level headed. So refreshing. As you’ll know there are other ex F1 personnel who are far less capable that you in being so objective.
On the topic of RBs developments not being as effective as other teams, is that possibly due to Newey no longer being involved? Yes, I know he’s only 1 person etc etc, but is it at all possible that his influence is that good, and hence RB has slipped up in their development pathway?
Well reasoned, even if Jolyon Palmer disagrees! You are very easy to listen to.
I do have to pick you up on one aspect, though:- tyre grip is an exponential function of slip angle - not contact patch area (which is not really going to change much irrespective of wheel angle. Arguably, contact patch area could be more advantageous with a turned wheel given changes in castor, camber etc.) Adhesion starts to reduce as soon as a slip angle is introduced. Which, of course, doesn't alter the fact that you must brake only in a straight line.
David P
With respect, you are incorrect. Contact patch changes dramatically as steering angle changes on an F1 car.
I really want to see the camera zoom out and reveal the "corner of wooden boards" setup ;-)
@Marc Priestley F1 Elvis Agree, looks purpose built. Can't help noticing the center joint and seating arrangement. Not a sauna. 😜
I'm not sure that Lando was faster on that later stage. They were both asked to lift and coast to preserve the tires, only one of them did it.
Proven by Lewis being 12 seconds behind after being hit by Max.. and a damaged car...
You should have paid attantion to the tires when they came in at the end Oscar's tires where shredded and Ham and Lando's looked much better. If Lando's RE would not have told him lies about his tires, talked thourgh breaking zones and than emotionally manipulated him Lando would have made the 6 sec gap into a 10 sec easy.....
I was surprised when Lando slowed down for Piastri. He should of kept the hammer down.
They pitted lando first on the first round too, the problem is that piastri lost his gap when he made a mistake, the team should of switched to pitting piastri first but they didn’t. What I don’t like is that they chose the winner it seems after half distance. If piastri pitted first we could of had a decent fight for the lead because piastri was much slower than him.
If McLaren had have just pissed Oscar first, they wouldn’t have been an issue because he would’ve been too far up the road for Lando to get to . this was all on McLaren’s team strategy.
If Max was second in the Championship he would have never given up these points. I guess that makes the sport fun, all these different characters. Honestly, I think it's pretty hard becoming a WC and this might turn out to be Lando's only chance in life where he had te opportunity to fight for it. Also, McLaren is letting the chance go by to put more pressure on Max and Red Bull. They gave them more breathing space. I think it's a strategic mistake of McLaren not to let Lando win.
I think Norris giving up the points was a huge mistake. Piastri should have told them to let it stay as is, his turn would come. Verstappen could have a terrible second part of the season, Lando could have a barn stormer. 7 points could be vital.
Imagine if Lando loses by 1-6 points by the end of the season.
lol delusional 🤡
Marc we need more videos G!
The part of the plan I don't like. Is that at whatever point This happened Maybe 18 laps to go, Were they committing to piastri winning right then and there? I don't think Lando was ready to give up the entire race. Maybe the individual move was okay, but was that it? Was it let peastri have the lead and win? Or was it just let piastri have the lead? what lando suddenly realized was he really could still win this race. That's where the issue was created.
I can’t really see Toto Wolff putting up with Max’s attitude
Bigger problem would be Joss wanting rid of Toto. Would make for an interesting power dynamic there as it's clear because of the set up Totos not going anywhere.
He puts up with Ham's attitude, so clearly he has a bottomless well of patience
@chris9650 won't be long until Toto gets accused of an affair with a colleague etc. All construde by Jos.
@@quigglyz Dude, I’m no fan of LH, but nobody throws a tantrum like Max. Maybe he’s different when in the car as opposed to in the garage or in the office.
What attitude?
I see no reason for Lando to hand position back. The team radio was just embarrassing
Im not to sure about this narrative. Although i haven't been thinking this before. Ive just looked at the data and it might have changed my mind abit. Piastri came out 2.1 seconds behind his team mate. He lost more than that just the forst time he went off in the gravel, so arguably, him going wide really didnt help the situation. Now the chances are Norris would have passed him anyway as norris was so much quicker on the final stages.
Originally my veiw was if Piastri can catch up or at least maintain the gap, then maybe switch, especially as he was on newer, better tyres. But he couldn't catch up and infact Norris extended the lead, at that point leave the order as it is even if it sucks. Giving up over 6 seconds of race time to make a switch is just abit silly. Outside of that the way it was done was embarrassing, the team guilt tripping thier driver lap after lap was terrible.
Im a mclaren fan, they are both my 2 favourite drivers and ive looked at this every different angle i can to make it ok for 1 of them and its just not there.
Interesting debate on both sides as to whether Lando should or shouldn’t have swapped places with Oscar at the end of the race.
All I’d say is 1: every driver is an employee of a team and is employed to maximise constructor points for the WCC and 2: none of us know what was preagreed between the drivers and team before the race strategy based on predetermined scenarios.
"The aim here is not to undercut Oscar. We just want to bring the tires into Hamilton.." That's it, that is the only communication about the race strategy before or after the pitstop. Meanwhile, Oscar was told twice that they were going to pit Lando first to cover off Lewis and that they'd fix it after. Poor communication from Lando's engineer, the team orders were all but an after thought in his communication. It should have been clearly stated what the team's intentions were.
So please ask all of Lando's minions to stop crying that Lando was faster after the stops. Sure he was, but Oscar was expecting Lando to cede the position, not have to race for it. So in his mind he was just supposed to manage the pace to the end with no real threat from Lewis/Max.
If either driver bins it because they were racing each other, then Mclaren goes from +27 to +9 constructor points to RBR.
I suppose that’s the point. Lando was told AFTER the stop. Had he been told before I don’t think he would have came in to box.
@@stephaniecampbell6119 I agree that I think he would say no and then force the team to pit Oscar first. But it should have been communicated properly then both drivers would have been on the same page. Oscar would have known that it was race on and not been in manage mode while Lando was pushing.
Land is no. 1 driver and should be treated as one. He needs the points to fight for the championship. Period !!
Wonder if Oscar ‚Cool as a Cucumber‘ Piastri will be competing with Max soon-ish, his learning curve to manage tires is steep and he his faaaast
@@romykraus5813 yep, and being soundly beaten by Lando in all areas. Google their head to head this year.
He talks like robot cucumber with voice of my grandma. 😅
Lando's biggest weakness is his heart. But I'm sure it will pay off in the end.
Was the race engineer trying to say that Lando will be fired if he went against team orders or was he trying to say that the team will not support him going forward? Either ways they wouldn't have done shit if he had gone against their orders.
If I was Lando I would have said you are fired race engineer! I am star of this team you are nobody and onlhy working because I say so.
Both Macca drivers now have a maiden win, one less savory than the other. Now they can race as a team.
Exactly. They couldn't keep Piastri from his maiden win all season when he would have had multiple opportunities. You just can't do that! By all means now they can favour Lando more easily.
Andrea Stella’s spin on the situation was hilarious.
Would Schumacher/ Vettel / Max have yielded ?
Lando should have stuck with " tell him to catch me up ".
Said this before I heard you say the same 😁😁😁
@@danthompson1953Did you just reply to yourself?
@@danthompson1953 then the team will suffer and piastri won't assist lando henceforth and will probably win more than lando, It looks like piastri is just warning up
@@smokeybirdmanWho is in a better position to challenge Max? This sport is brutal, you stick with one challenger and support him, the other driver should understand the role of the number two driver. Even if he is "just warming up", when he warms up and consistently beats Lando in say 2025, the roles should change. It's really no rocket science and it seem like McLaren is just overthinking it.
@@CrazyChemistPL I think lando making way for piastri to pass and win the race is symbolic of Lando getting out of the way for the new number 1 driver - Piastri. Lando doesn't have the mongrel inside to be world champion
I agree with you about how McLaren managed the situation. I was actually expecting a radio message from Stella to give the order to swap positions. Drivers in general need to be told who's in charge, plus from the car they often (all the drivers) tend to ignore the reasons they are faster then someone behind or ahead. DRS assistance, clean air in front or other factors. For Norris, maybe if he'd given the position back earlier he might have had the chance to fight to the end, at the beginning of the race they were given the "ok to fight the papaya".
All very good to say pretty things about teamwork, but from history, drivers championships are generally not won by drivers who play ball and give way to their teammates. For constructors the order of drivers did not matter. Thanks for your thoughts as always Marc!
You only need to look back to the 2022 Sao Paolo Grand Prix to see Verstappen's reaction to being asked to let his teammate by.
Don’t ever ask me to do something like that again.
Great job Marc, team orders just suck really don’t they ..
I've been watching F1 since 1970 and appreciate the nuance and foresight required to not only build a team and a car, but to finance it. Unfortunately for me, the advent of team orders, particularly in the modern day evolution of the sport, has never sat well with me. In the golden years it was all about the skill of the drivers, the enterprise of the engineers and the reliability of their cars; the best man and machine won. Today however, it is impossible to not have team orders, purely based on the substantive fiscal demands that are needed to maintain a team and it's continuing participation and progress within the sport. Takes the edge off the spectacle for me. But that's just my opinion. Thanks for sharing.
Team orders are nothing new, they’ve been around as long as the sport (Tony Brooks and Stirling Moss at Aintree is just one of many examples).
@@geoffsales7742 I really wish people's reading and comprehension was better sometimes. Thanks for your input though Geoff.
The inability to comprehend is seemingly abundant.
For clarity I’m not critiquing your original post, I merely addressed the fact team orders always played a part in the sport we both love.
Fiscal demands, creative engineering, driver skill and reliability have and always will be key components to making F1 what it is.
The evolution to the modern era has diluted a lot of what I fell in love with back in the early 80’s (I’m a relative newcomer compared to you), so I guess we’re singing from the same hymn sheet.
@@TheHitmann069only wish more people would put across their views in a constructive manner as you have above. A rarity on social media.
@@TheHitmann069 Well your comment wasn't entirely clear though I agree with your conclusions! Team orders work superbly when contracts and roles are clearly defined; I assume that "Geoff" meant something along those lines. It's usually clear which driver is better or at least in a better position each year. I'd say I agree roughly with Peter Windsor in that it's the current culture of the sport that causes the issues, not the role of finances. Drivers are supposed to be considerate, rounded, nice, team players. This is a nonsense that the teams unfairly impose on them. Max, while being objectionable, is entirely comfortable with fighting for his own interests and he's uncompromising with his team. The Red Bull team understand that that's how a really competitive person is and it has done rather nicely with that method.
If you mean that the teams have to embrace this culture in order for F1 to be competitive as entertainment then I'm not entirely sure about that; maybe. Wasn't the current "success" built on hyped sensation of conflict? Wouldn't this race enhance that? Wouldn't a defiant Lando victory have made more headlines? I don't know; maybe all the drivers now have "disobeying order" clauses in their contracts. Mclaren didn't need to be so absurdly clumsy with it. I agree, the headlines are now almost entirely about rules, "morals" and incidental things rather than the sport.
I thought at first Lando did the right thing, then I thought, hang on, what happens if Max has a DNF or another bad race, we're halfway through the season, that 7 points could be really important! Got the seedstream app btw, it's great for the train ride to work. 🙂
Swings and roundabouts is fine, as long as the decision is clear from "on high". If you feel like giving up the lead... would you mind...
Sensible comments as always mate, cheers ya big ear😁👍
Thanks Marc, no one apart from Peter Windsor, is talking about Oscar's move into turn one which started the whole thing ? Also on the timing feed I was watching Oscar was getting tyre warnings quite early on in the race so I don't thinke he was cruising with a comfortable lead ? Lando was just faster with better tyre management.
Yes he should have taken the win which he deserved, it was up to Piastri to at least catch up with him firstly, plus it is very poor management to take 6 points off your championship leading driver let alone he is second in the championship?????
Not sure how you can say Lando win was deserved when it was based on an undeserved pit stop strategy.
Re Lando giving back the lead, I think that if he was closer in points (a lot closer) to Max, and IF McLaren know that their car is genuinely going to continue to challenge RB, and IF they were just more ready for F1 leadership, then yes he might have held on to his lead. I just think there not (yet) the full belief that the team are really ready to take at dominant position/mindset to be seriously challenging for a title win. Maybe though today will be that tipping point and we’ll see a new mindset next race. I do hope so as that are a great team. Great drivers. Their best days are definitely ahead of them.
If I was Lando - Will Joseph would not be my race engineer going forward… pure gas lighting
It is great to see McLaren back at the top.
As nice as it was to see Oscar win a GP, if Lando misses out on the Drivers Championship by a few points (I think Verstappen will win it) the damage to relationships within the team would take some repairing.
I wonder if McLaren will prioritise the driver with most points moving forward.....
Please add a feature to your app that allows you to turn spoilers off. Some of us don’t watch races live but don’t want to turn off notifications.
It's all so intriguing, I have to say it did all look a bit comical at times, you can see both points of view for the Mclaren drivers but I get the feeling that Lando might be there or thereabouts by the end of the season if the current performance lasts. Maybe if he is 20-30 points behind with 4-5 races left to go and the team have the same situation again would they still ask him to move aside? Perhaps the favour he paid to Oscar here might get paid back in the future, hard to say what was the right thing to do but I can't wait for the next race!
Lando is a cool dude. I like him. His time will come. Don't dwell too long and focus on the next race. 😊
Aside from all that love the backdrop very rustic
could some of the mclaren issues be that Zac Brown wasn't at the track this weekend, would it have been different if he was on the pit wall?
Zac Brown wasn't there?? Where was he?
Stella is an absolute wanker, the rubbish he was talking to Sky after to justify his wankerism.
@@mikespearwood3914 . He's McLaren CEO. He has a lot more than F1 going on. Andrea Stella runs the F1 team.
Regards the Max Lewis contact. I’ve not read the stewards report either, and your review seems spot on (again). However, given the extent that Max went off the track, was that not an indicator of how hot he went into the corner? If Lewis was not there would he really have been able to make the corner, or actually he’d have still run wide?
Appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
I agree Max might be tempted to go to Merc, and that Toto would likely push out the boat to the get him, but might that not well create quite a tricky Ham-Nico situation, just like what might now soon be happening at McLaren?
In the end, has team harmony ever been maintainable for long, in a team with two fairly equally matched championship winning capable drivers, in a championship winning capable car?
If Max does goes to Merc, i wonder if one of piastri and norris might not also quite soon be at RB.
where can i get that hat brother???? its so fire. Need some Marc Priestley merch. also loving the Seedstream updates
Lando should have let Oscar pass straight away and then would have had the next 15-20 laps to get past again.
If McLaren wanted the swap so bad, they should have ordered Lando to Immediately give the place back and allowed Lando the time to fight back and take the spot back. And they should have told him that on the radio. If I were in Lados spot I’d have let him go in a place that I could pounce back on him and repass his ass. He was by far the faster driver. I can’t imagine how pissed Lando will be if he loses this championship by less than 7 points.
I think this is actually the best option.
Lando should have bargained with the team: "I'll let him past & give him 2or 3 secs & then I'm allowed to attack for a while".
I remember AUS 1998 when Coulthard let HAK back past him due to some pit call 'mix-up'.
He became the No2 driver from that point on for me.....
Two things which are apparent..
Why did Oscar switch places with Orlando on the first lap and not give the place back sooner?
Oscars pit strategy would have worked if Oscar had cleared the traffic on the track.he was not fast enough.
There was no leadership following similar behaviour at Silverstone, should ZAk now be clear that points win drivers and constructors' championships. Should ZAk now resign?
Championship is still on, Championships are built on total commitment not WOK mentality .
,
Please listen to Peter Windsor's comments about Oscar Piastri understeering into the first corner on lap 1 and thereby causing the whole Maclaren dilemma later in the race. Lando N. should never have been asked to give the position back because of Piastri's Verstappen tactics in the first coener of the race.
Easy in hindsight to say, but maybe Lando could have swapped early, as long as they were allowed to race. As he was the faster he could have overtake. Of course you have the risk of an incident that stops the 1,2.
Still it is history now, let’s look forward to more McLaren on the top steps
Yep - re McLaren - nail on the head! Should have been a clear instruction after the pitstops, and actually a clear explanation even before the pitstops... with no grey area and certainly not trying to slow Lando down afterwards by trying to suggest his tires might fail if he doesn't ease up and also 'emotional blackmail'...
It’s a team sport with a lot of egos , bragging rights,financial rewards ( on-off the track) and hopefully the Pie will be shared equally with everyone at the table.
Just more growing pains at Maclaren, they'll figure it out . Lando did the right thing. Maclaren is within a shout of gethe WCC. Still a ways to go for him to take the WDC this year. If he gets in a position later in the year I believe the team and more importantly his teammate will support him .😊
I thought F1 was all about the stopwatch, quickest wins, right?
Lando should’ve allowed Piastri to pass him when initially he was asked to give up the position and then race him and pass him for the win fair and square.
Because Lando wouldn’t have been the faster drive if he was behind an other car namely Piastri, as soon as Oscar’s led was restored he dropped Lando by 2 sec in one lap!
A true racer gives NOTHING away.
My opinion is that Lando got twice the advantage of the undercut. If he didn't, he would have lost time battling Lewis after the first pit and possibly the second, so he should be thankful to the team and that is why it was fair to let Oscar to win, for he lost about 6 second from the undercuts trough no fault of his own.
Any other outcome would have been evil in my opinion. Something Jean Todt would have done, but this is McLaren and I love them for that.
One suggestion I saw made a ton of sense- Lando should have let him pass really early, and then the race would be on. He had the speed to pass late in the race, and that would have been really entertaining.
About max- I will disagree that all of the strategy calls were wrong. The team seemed to quickly understand the current strength and weakness with the car, and let the two undercuts happen because they knew max should have been able to pass- he *should* have passed Lewis on the 2nd tire set and very much had the pass on Lewis late in the race. The team put him on the best strategy to maximize the points- which should have easily been 3rd. But max didn't deliver his end of the deal.
BTW, if Lando want's to be taken seriously, he needs to take advantage of his advantages- his start was terrible (again), and everyone back to Lewis were there in the corner. If he takes is poles as they are, none of this would have been an issue.
I think it really doesn't affect Oscar. That guy is ice when it comes to mental strength. I reckon they should help Lando take maximum points now to try and win the drivers championship. Oscar will have his opportunity next year.
Next time they will just pit oscar first and lando will drop a position. Oscar didnt really look happy with his first win. Lando has always been very selfish.
I think McLaren focused on the construction title in Hungary, and not the drivers championship. Could have easily let Lando win to maximise his title points as well as the one two finish. Will have to wait and see if this result is a title deciding factor.
Of course he should have gone on to take the victory, those points could well make the difference at the end of the season. The teams points would not have changed. Still too much tyre and fuel saving required