I think one of the main reasons why they decided to overhaul everything for Reforged is to retcon appearances to match how they look in WoW. And of course, we all know that they ended up biting more than they could chew with how many models to design, animate, and resize in such a short amount of time, not to mention the budget the team was given. But the SC2 upscaling approach could still work with retcons in mind. Like, make Malfurion's WC3 model HD but make his hair green instead of blue. Same with Thrall; make his wolf have white fur and black armor instead of the canonically inaccurate black wolf that he has in WC3. Stuff like those can be achieved without fully scrapping the old WC3 models. Even Starcraft Remastered did something like that. Artanis in OG Brood War looks like a Dark Templar, which doesn't make sense lore-wise, so in Remastered, they added some subtle gold accents to his portrait to make it more obvious that he is an Aiur protoss. Heck, they were already messing with visual retcons way before Reforged. When the HD Warcraft models were made available to SC2, one notable change was that there were no longer panda faces on the warglaives of the Demon Hunter. Back then, panda-related things in WC3 were just easter eggs. But now that Pandaria has lore, it wouldn't make sense to make pandaren somehow related to the weapons of night elf Demon Hunters. The decisions made in the graphical overhaul of Reforged is just so bizarre.
Like actually. Tbh I didn't even want W3 reforged. It's charming in it's shitty old style. That old style is what became recognisably the entire Warcraft franchise... I'd have preferred a W4 :(
I have no idea why they felt the need to mess with the sound with Warcraft III: Reforged, the sound in Warcraft III is high quality, timeless and iconic.
Yes it's really good. I really love this mod uses og warcraft dubs, because it also uses one of the best dubs ever made in my language Polish over really mediocre Reforged Polish dub
Hi Grubby! I'm Rosebudio, the handler of the Versus Edition of the Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar! (base mod by the cool MusketMarine and [Napalm]Hydralisk) Thank you for showcasing the mod! Currently the mod is in pre-alpha stages so the balance isn't really there yet nor are some of the things functional (Metamorphosis on the Demon Hunter doesn't work yet for example) but it is in fact constantly being tuned and patched, and we're fixing bugs as we go. The Warcraft factions stats and abilities had to stray a bit from the original design as some of the mechanics don't work very well with Starcraft 2's economy and fast pacing, so a number of things had to be adjusted to function well vs the Starcraft 2 races, like Footmen gaining bonus armor when on Defend, or Grunts gaining bonus movement speed once Brute Strength is researched. Night Elf ancients eat minerals instead of trees now, Sentinel had to be reworked into a different ability that technically still fulfills the same role. Oh creeps have also been recently added as a toggleable option, although they are quite experimental and will be fine tuned in future updates. This mod is intended for Warcraft vs Starcraft, so the interactions with Warcraft vs Warcraft may be a bit weird for those that are used to how the matchups works in Warcraft 3, so I apologize if it feels off for WC3 players. Anyway, I enjoy watching your WC3 content a ton! ❤❤❤
Have you considered adding creep camps only to the wc3 side of the map? Giving wc3 players a way to obtain xp/kill gold without making it more difficult for sc2 races.
@@TheRealXartaX Yes but with how the WC3 factions stats and techtree have been adjusted to fit more in line with SC2, it is just too much in SC2's favor if only WC3 had to deal with creeps especially when their units are just flat out better in terms of accessibility and flexibility. A mod in Asia called Warcraft Evolution does do what you're saying, but with the different take of retaining the stat values of the WC3 races as the original, which does make them really imbalanced vs Starcraft 2.
@@rosebudio Well they should drop items & gold (in addition to giving xp to their heroes), which rewards the wc3 player for clearing them. Dealing with the creeps shouldn't be a disadvantage, there's a reason wc3 players fight them in their own game instead of going right to the enemy's base.
What if sc2 races have their own heroes as well? Like the ones from the campaign or in brood war? Then you can possibly justify adding in creeps. But I think it’s better without the creep imo
The Terran Raven: and extremely high tech piece of mobile drone with an advanced AI developed to assist Terran armies in electronic warfare. Able to deploy stationary turrets, guided charges and offer detection using highly sensitive instruments The Gnomish Flying Machine: a dwarf Jerry rigged into a flying death trap created by Gnomish engineers from Gnomeregan. Has double Gnomish gatling guns duct tape to the side. Offers true sight by using an extremely long telescope. Can duct tape more bombs to the rear to tickle enemy units and buildings. No one actually knows how this engineering marvel flies.
As a reminder - there is a custom campaign in SC2 arcade called "Azeroth Reborn". It's WC3 campagins in SC2 client. Project is ongoing but I believe all the Reign of Chaos campagins are already done.
Maybe the next rts wont be starcraft 3 or warcraft 4, but something like Blizzard allstars were you can play all the sc1 sc2 and wc3 races, and the creep camps and tavern heroes can be different characters from hots.
15:41 I think ghouls are on minerals because minerals in this mod are equivalent to lumber as the "cheaper" resource, and since ghouls gathered lumber in WC3, it made sense to put them on minerals too.
I am very surprised there isn't a more flushed out WC3 map in SC2. Like one that is as perfectly tailored to WC3 as possible, all the same numbers with an iconic WC3 map, just in the startcraft engine (which by itself creates huge differences). It would be awesome to see just that difference alone, which would be huge.
@grubby for that "hatchery" trick you need to let it build to stage 2 (about 33% hp), then creep gonna be big enaught under it to build something like evo chamber.
They should re-relsease Wc3 with similar graphics to these as free to play and just make a bunch of new added, purchaseable cosmetics instead (that are somewhat lore accurate). Would be extremely popular with custom games and everything.
I actually wanted to see NElf. Do the wisps just orbit the minerals? If so, they'd be quite OP. They wouldn't need extra bases, and can just mine from a distance. And I guess the "refineries" will auto-construct? :P
Wisps act like regular workers and walk back and forth. They require the same buildings for returning minerals (I forget which one they use to return minerals like a lumber mill for human, but they have one).
In the less balanced version they just orbit like usual, 2 per mineral iirc. But in the balance pass theyre working on they walk with the rock, it really looks cursed
These look so much better than WC3 reforged. It is strange that the reforged team decided to make all new terrible looking models when these models already existed in SC2.
I’m pretty sure there’s a mod that lets you play the wings of liberty campaign as the Warcraft 3 Alliance faction, it was a lot of fun from what I remember.
For the surrounds, he just simply didn't pay attention to his blademaster, nor did he send any support units (he probably had a lot of resources left over). Plus the damage/armor type values are off (missing natural 30% magic resist on heroes? maybe armor damage reduction calculation is different?). Once the values get figured out I'm sure the engine won't be a problem. SC2 is also a high economy game, compared to the low economy of W3. You have so much income here, you can pretty much instantly go T3 every game AND expand. People will have to figure out new strategies. In fact I predict the W3 races will end up feeling extremely one-dimensional compared to SC2, because with this many resources you have very little reason not to just go for the strongest unit your race has. But maybe new strategies get figured out specifically for this, who knows...
15:38 I feel like they could've swapped the resources around, have vespene gas be the main resource used for everything and minerals as the secondary resource, unlike normal SC2 It would be a bit more intuitive for WC3 players, I think.
That wouldn't work, because it would make the wc3 races too vulnerable to harass and they would have to start with gold mines and workers on the mines. Just too many things would need heavy rebalancing and it's a lot to ask of the mod maker.
There already is a version of the mod that has SC2, SC1 and WC3 races. I played BW Terran against Orc earlier today. It's so cool that that's possible these days.
Hi. Just got started on this series. Do WC3 aoe spells still have a hard splash cap, or has that been removed to adjust for the pacing of SC2? Because IIRC things like Flamestrike could only hit up to 5 units in WC3 IIRC?
The sound constantly getting cut off sure is unnature feeling. I suppose that too is engine related but I definitely prefer WC3's of fully playing building sound sfx's regardless of having them selected or not
its so wrong, wc3 is about big hp units. I want proper wc3 units vs sc2. Just hold 100 limit max for balance. Its no creeps or shops so its nerfed too.
Reforged graphics are even crazier than I remember.
Most funny here is they take WF3 original graphics instead of reforged and it looks really good :D
If only reforged looked like this.
I came here to say the same thing lol.
The upscaling that SC2 gives is all we really needed for reforged graphics lmao
I think one of the main reasons why they decided to overhaul everything for Reforged is to retcon appearances to match how they look in WoW. And of course, we all know that they ended up biting more than they could chew with how many models to design, animate, and resize in such a short amount of time, not to mention the budget the team was given.
But the SC2 upscaling approach could still work with retcons in mind. Like, make Malfurion's WC3 model HD but make his hair green instead of blue. Same with Thrall; make his wolf have white fur and black armor instead of the canonically inaccurate black wolf that he has in WC3. Stuff like those can be achieved without fully scrapping the old WC3 models. Even Starcraft Remastered did something like that. Artanis in OG Brood War looks like a Dark Templar, which doesn't make sense lore-wise, so in Remastered, they added some subtle gold accents to his portrait to make it more obvious that he is an Aiur protoss.
Heck, they were already messing with visual retcons way before Reforged. When the HD Warcraft models were made available to SC2, one notable change was that there were no longer panda faces on the warglaives of the Demon Hunter. Back then, panda-related things in WC3 were just easter eggs. But now that Pandaria has lore, it wouldn't make sense to make pandaren somehow related to the weapons of night elf Demon Hunters.
The decisions made in the graphical overhaul of Reforged is just so bizarre.
Like actually. Tbh I didn't even want W3 reforged. It's charming in it's shitty old style. That old style is what became recognisably the entire Warcraft franchise... I'd have preferred a W4 :(
Yes! Exactly what I thought.
I have no idea why they felt the need to mess with the sound with Warcraft III: Reforged, the sound in Warcraft III is high quality, timeless and iconic.
Yes it's really good. I really love this mod uses og warcraft dubs, because it also uses one of the best dubs ever made in my language Polish over really mediocre Reforged Polish dub
Hi Grubby! I'm Rosebudio, the handler of the Versus Edition of the Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar! (base mod by the cool MusketMarine and [Napalm]Hydralisk)
Thank you for showcasing the mod! Currently the mod is in pre-alpha stages so the balance isn't really there yet nor are some of the things functional (Metamorphosis on the Demon Hunter doesn't work yet for example) but it is in fact constantly being tuned and patched, and we're fixing bugs as we go.
The Warcraft factions stats and abilities had to stray a bit from the original design as some of the mechanics don't work very well with Starcraft 2's economy and fast pacing, so a number of things had to be adjusted to function well vs the Starcraft 2 races, like Footmen gaining bonus armor when on Defend, or Grunts gaining bonus movement speed once Brute Strength is researched. Night Elf ancients eat minerals instead of trees now, Sentinel had to be reworked into a different ability that technically still fulfills the same role. Oh creeps have also been recently added as a toggleable option, although they are quite experimental and will be fine tuned in future updates.
This mod is intended for Warcraft vs Starcraft, so the interactions with Warcraft vs Warcraft may be a bit weird for those that are used to how the matchups works in Warcraft 3, so I apologize if it feels off for WC3 players.
Anyway, I enjoy watching your WC3 content a ton! ❤❤❤
Really cool mod and I will be patiently waiting for 1.0!
Have you considered adding creep camps only to the wc3 side of the map? Giving wc3 players a way to obtain xp/kill gold without making it more difficult for sc2 races.
@@TheRealXartaX Yes but with how the WC3 factions stats and techtree have been adjusted to fit more in line with SC2, it is just too much in SC2's favor if only WC3 had to deal with creeps especially when their units are just flat out better in terms of accessibility and flexibility. A mod in Asia called Warcraft Evolution does do what you're saying, but with the different take of retaining the stat values of the WC3 races as the original, which does make them really imbalanced vs Starcraft 2.
@@rosebudio Well they should drop items & gold (in addition to giving xp to their heroes), which rewards the wc3 player for clearing them. Dealing with the creeps shouldn't be a disadvantage, there's a reason wc3 players fight them in their own game instead of going right to the enemy's base.
What if sc2 races have their own heroes as well? Like the ones from the campaign or in brood war? Then you can possibly justify adding in creeps. But I think it’s better without the creep imo
Finally, Warcraft in space.
WoW basically 💁♂️
I can see when there are no creep on the map to farm, there are very small moments in time that Grubman is like "what do I do with my hands?!" :D
👁️👄👁️
"Idle time to do nothing?"
*CONFUSED SCREAMING*
Speedy peasants is hilarious, they're so MOTIVATED
war time, always meant drugs are allowed, "motivation" and lowering pain/stress lol.
@@MintBlancmanche-mk8piThey inhale some of the crystals on the way
@@MintBlancmanche-mk8pi or they got paid
As someone who knows nothing about Starcraft, those surrounds made Grubby look like Happy it was so clean.
The patching is too good that melee units just auto surround
I've been obsessed with this mod. I've been playing Musketmarine's original Azeroth-Koprulu Hyperwar against AI. They even just added creeps.
The Terran Raven: and extremely high tech piece of mobile drone with an advanced AI developed to assist Terran armies in electronic warfare. Able to deploy stationary turrets, guided charges and offer detection using highly sensitive instruments
The Gnomish Flying Machine: a dwarf Jerry rigged into a flying death trap created by Gnomish engineers from Gnomeregan. Has double Gnomish gatling guns duct tape to the side. Offers true sight by using an extremely long telescope. Can duct tape more bombs to the rear to tickle enemy units and buildings. No one actually knows how this engineering marvel flies.
I bet it flies by ork logic
15:00 as soon as i heard the nydus and didn't see zerg running in i knew its swarmhost
As a reminder - there is a custom campaign in SC2 arcade called "Azeroth Reborn". It's WC3 campagins in SC2 client. Project is ongoing but I believe all the Reign of Chaos campagins are already done.
I like how when you say the quotes of the Warcraft units, you do it almost perfectly. No accent. It’s amazing.
Maybe the next rts wont be starcraft 3 or warcraft 4, but something like Blizzard allstars were you can play all the sc1 sc2 and wc3 races, and the creep camps and tavern heroes can be different characters from hots.
Star Wars Craft V available now in PCs. Get your copy now! 😊
15:34 Oh huh, I remember back in the day you'd start with like... 3 ghouls? And you had to build a crypt to get more
i just woke up. lol. feverdream
Just so Grub knows, swarmhost's locusts count as summons, and cause of that, the spellbreakers can autocast control-magic on them haha
15:41 I think ghouls are on minerals because minerals in this mod are equivalent to lumber as the "cheaper" resource, and since ghouls gathered lumber in WC3, it made sense to put them on minerals too.
I am very surprised there isn't a more flushed out WC3 map in SC2. Like one that is as perfectly tailored to WC3 as possible, all the same numbers with an iconic WC3 map, just in the startcraft engine (which by itself creates huge differences). It would be awesome to see just that difference alone, which would be huge.
@grubby for that "hatchery" trick you need to let it build to stage 2 (about 33% hp), then creep gonna be big enaught under it to build something like evo chamber.
I was waiting for this, I especially want to see you playing against Harstem.
They should re-relsease Wc3 with similar graphics to these as free to play and just make a bunch of new added, purchaseable cosmetics instead (that are somewhat lore accurate). Would be extremely popular with custom games and everything.
I actually wanted to see NElf. Do the wisps just orbit the minerals? If so, they'd be quite OP. They wouldn't need extra bases, and can just mine from a distance. And I guess the "refineries" will auto-construct? :P
Wisps act like regular workers and walk back and forth. They require the same buildings for returning minerals (I forget which one they use to return minerals like a lumber mill for human, but they have one).
@@flamerollerx01 Huntress hall i guess?
In the less balanced version they just orbit like usual, 2 per mineral iirc. But in the balance pass theyre working on they walk with the rock, it really looks cursed
Oh the swarm host PTSD that Grubby experienced... painful to feel 😂
Finally Blizzard has updated the Reforged Engine with quality of life features 👍
These look so much better than WC3 reforged. It is strange that the reforged team decided to make all new terrible looking models when these models already existed in SC2.
The higher def classic graphics are literally all we wanted for reforged graphics. Its crazy how good it looks in this custom game.
Wow, Reforged graphics looking a little better today
Looks very cool. Hopefully there will be more games from this mod. Especially would love to see longer ones.
Ghouls mining minerals feels so wrong lol
I didn't know I wanted a Warcraft vs Starcraft game up until now 😄
I wonder who would win, between a SC2 PRO vs a WC3 PRO in this map/gamemode 👀👀
Plot Twist: This is warcraft, but with a mod that replaces goldmines and trees with starcraft resources
Kael'Thas icon is looking so much better and accurate than reforged ngl
I’m pretty sure there’s a mod that lets you play the wings of liberty campaign as the Warcraft 3 Alliance faction, it was a lot of fun from what I remember.
I see undead imbalance is still a thing, if not worse, in SC2. Imagine a control group of 100 crypt fiends w/ web, that would be insane.
Grubman is absolutely cooking with this constantly fresh content. Thanks Grubman. ♥
Minerals are considered Lumber in SC2 grubby, thats why ghouls are collecting them
please go next SC2 vs WC3!!!
Reforged graphics are even crazier than I remember
For the surrounds, he just simply didn't pay attention to his blademaster, nor did he send any support units (he probably had a lot of resources left over). Plus the damage/armor type values are off (missing natural 30% magic resist on heroes? maybe armor damage reduction calculation is different?). Once the values get figured out I'm sure the engine won't be a problem. SC2 is also a high economy game, compared to the low economy of W3. You have so much income here, you can pretty much instantly go T3 every game AND expand. People will have to figure out new strategies.
In fact I predict the W3 races will end up feeling extremely one-dimensional compared to SC2, because with this many resources you have very little reason not to just go for the strongest unit your race has. But maybe new strategies get figured out specifically for this, who knows...
These graphics are amazing, very nice map, hope we get it to reforged one day
The moment I stop watching Grubby for a few weeks, Kael'thas invades the Koprulu sector. Hype!
- Adûnâi
15:38 I feel like they could've swapped the resources around, have vespene gas be the main resource used for everything and minerals as the secondary resource, unlike normal SC2
It would be a bit more intuitive for WC3 players, I think.
That wouldn't work, because it would make the wc3 races too vulnerable to harass and they would have to start with gold mines and workers on the mines. Just too many things would need heavy rebalancing and it's a lot to ask of the mod maker.
@@flamerollerx01 without specific maps yeah. but with maps it would be fine.
Ah yes the Swarm Host PTSD returns
The 3D model interface is so good
This is the only way to make me play SC2 lol
I guess the wisps do figure 8s around the crystals when mining
This is an awesome idea. Excited to see its updates!
You should try sc2 mass recall mod now that you're replaying sc1
YEEEEESSSSSSSSSS I have been waiting for you to check this mod out.
the internet was crazy because you could send people meat spin
So this is what WC3 with a real engine looks like
Ok a Bloodmage firestrike rush would be annoying to deal with lol
Blue gold, Heisenberg would approve
i found this crazy, creating a game inside another game
This mod looks nice. Can't wait until they merge it with one that allows you play SC1 races. I would love to see Artosis vs Grubby duel.
There already is a version of the mod that has SC2, SC1 and WC3 races. I played BW Terran against Orc earlier today. It's so cool that that's possible these days.
@@L_O_V_E_L_A_I_N Wild how to took players to make the mod instead of Blizzard deciding to just throw it out randomly as a surprise update/event
Man
That is not what i remember the Outlands like in the blood elf campaign
That ragequit from Swarm Host was pathetic lmao
Terrans after amon sends them back to the middle Ages. 😂
Looks better than reforged graphics
to be honest. this should be the wc3 + sc2 definitiv endition. looks better than reforged aswell.
Hi. Just got started on this series. Do WC3 aoe spells still have a hard splash cap, or has that been removed to adjust for the pacing of SC2? Because IIRC things like Flamestrike could only hit up to 5 units in WC3 IIRC?
After watching Warcraft 3 creeping, there is literally nothing to do on the map in SC2 besides harassing your opp. Never thought about this before
This looks waaaay better than reforged.
Closest thing we'll get to wc4, the way Blizzard is going.
This was so entertaining haha loved it
Hi Grubby ! Please do more of this !!
Now this like like a proper reforge lol
yeeee I've been waiting for this after I saw harstem playing it lol
Sc2 graphics, what reforged should have been
That's so awesome! I want to see more that please :D :D :D
Even this looks better than reforged.
Now i want to See real tournaments
Next: Do SC2 inside WC3 lol.
The sound constantly getting cut off sure is unnature feeling. I suppose that too is engine related but I definitely prefer WC3's of fully playing building sound sfx's regardless of having them selected or not
it actually looks better than reforged
funny Grubby you still hate free units :D I'd like to play this since I love both games.
Was the upkeep mechanic also ported over? Otherwise WC3 races are probably gonna be turbo cracked.
it IS warcraft in space.
If minerals are wood. Can't you just use keeper or catapults maybe to destory all minerals?
its so wrong, wc3 is about big hp units. I want proper wc3 units vs sc2. Just hold 100 limit max for balance. Its no creeps or shops so its nerfed too.
What is this insanity!?:D
This is like if Amish went to space
Warcraft allowed it so cool ❤
still looks better than regorged xD
such a good spell. For oinly 25 mana, you cna kill your own unit and gain nothing.
I loved the trauma reaction from Grubby upon seeing swarmosts:). Just no.:):)
there are creeps now on camps lol
Grubby Vs LowkoTV? HMMM....
This graphics so much better than reforged :/
Never give up bro. :)
-25 KEKW 🤣🤣
This looks so fun!! How do I access this mod to play on sc2?? Please anyone
We have warcraft 3 in stacraft 2 but have we got starcraft 2 in warcraft 3?
the only time you play against a good player, you quit before even trying,
nah, no issues with surrounds in sc2, it's just it removes some stuff that is not required or essential to the game; however, it excels at other stuff
This is madness
This mod more fun than atormgate huh