The A-7D Brake Scandal
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
- The case of the whistleblower complaint about the Goodrich company falsifying test results for the brakes for a new Air Force attack plane has generally been presented as a morality play “there is the virtuous hero, the corrupt and evil corporate villains." But is the story more complex than that?
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Script by THG
#history #thehistoryguy #corporatescandals
![100 Days - [Minecraft Creative 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OmogWsk_ZZg/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a retired engineer and I can tell you that ethics is a foreign concept for many managers.
As someone who has worked in QA and regulatory compliance for most of my career, I agree with you 💯!
Very apparent
Ethics is not in the vocabulary of corporate people.
😊
I'm an EE I saw stuff like this all the time. Veracity is something management never heard of.
Kind of ironic that when it came to exposing the truth about a defective brake, the whistleblower would stop at nothing.
Bravo!
So clever!
Well done
And nothing could stop the whistle blower.
I see what you did there! Well played!
Do you ever notice how when people say "mind your own business" they're almost always doing something they shouldn't be doing?
Also it usually is supposed to be someone’s ‘business’ to ensure proper safety and ethics in certain lines of work.
@@RobotacularRoBob Easy there you are exposing concepts foreign to business executives.
@@emberfist8347Corporate Executives doing the maths - Chances of being caught X consequences Vs doing it legally & safely in the first place, depending on which one grants a greater profit.
Untrue. Vast landscapes of context involved depending on the subject.
I was a whistle blower. I was working on an operational aircraft that required a new check on the undercarriage torque links. What we didn't know was that they could be assembled upside leaving the Leg door rubbing on the hydraulic brake line. This could have resulted in brake failure. I was in the RAF so told my corporal. He did nothing. I told the Flight Sergant, he did nothing except ask the corporal. So I filled out a confidential report. A week later the investigation team showed up and the problem was acknowledged and a solution found.
You did the right thing, it had to be done. I was airframe maintenance in the IAF on F-4E Kurnass / F-16C/D. As a young corpral I've grounded a few planes, no one asked any question.
We had a saying, when in doubt, there is no doubt. Meaning not cleared for flight.
You did the right thing. Fittings or connectors that can be installed backwards, upside-down etc sound funny, but they can be very serious, as in your example. From the merely inconvenient, like the fuel line connector that was installed upside-down in my car by a mechanic and left me stranded in a conference center parking lot, to the potentially catastrophic like the identical connectors for fuel and high-pressure air in the engines of, if I recall, the DC-7 that could be (and at least once were) swapped so that activating the de-icing boots would pump raw fuel into them. Small bit of luck that this would also prevent the engine from starting, so there was no chance of blasting fuel into the de-icing boot in flight. But still...
@stacymcmahon453 Bliney, all interesting and surprising that they weren't designed foolproof.
Did you get any kind of commendation for your action?
@@dugroz Absolutely nothing.
I’m blown away! I worked on the Navy’s A-7E in the mid 1970s and I was in VA-146 the Blue Diamonds! The aerial shot you have is of Lt. Neal O’Brian in 307! I worked on this actual airplane! You also have shots of a low passover of our sister squadron VA-147 the Argonauts at Naval Air Station Lemoore, CA. The A-7E was indeed a workhorse and lived up to its design. The A-7E had the more powerful Allison TF-41 Turbofan engine and an internal mounted gun. Awesome video! Very personal for me.
I was in VA-25 in the mid 70's. Probably saw you in the chow hall.
Did you catch the brake problem?
@@pfrstreetgang7511 Yeah, but it hapened a few years before I worked on them.
@@funkywagnalls No doubt! I really liked how they did the barracks.
Thanks for sharing this story, cool stuff
Before retiring, I was in charge of reviewing reports submitted by contractors to the city. Multiple reports by multiple contractors were deemed to be substandard. Many reports were clearly falsified. One contractor did it constantly.
I went to multiple agencies in the state, and they all took a pass on investigating. They can't be bothered with thousands of instances of felony fraud.
I always ask the same question wrt such things; who owns stock in what company or has some other business ties to what company? Corrupt business dealings are not just for elected persons you know...
Part of the reason that there was so little consequence is that this sort of fraud wasn’t uncommon. Although the brakes on a plane offer exceptional consequences…
*_"There's never enough time to do it right the first time, but there's always enough time to do it right the second time."_*
- From a Chief Petty Officer I used to work for in the US Coast Guard
When I was a Navy CPO back in the 1970's I used to tell my men, "If you don't have time to do it right, how will you have time to do it over?"
Same thought, different service, I guess.
After the s h I t hits the fan
A very wise man.
@@bnewman43, my Maintenance Master Chief stated it as "The same guy that won't give you the time to do it right will always give you time to do it over."
(And we know Master Chiefs are never wrong.)
@@rickn8or I've heard that once or twice in the Navy.
This is a great example of "military grade" meaning "built by the lowest bidder".
If we need a high tolerance and precision part manufactured, we are going to use the company who can produce the required spec part for the lowest cost. Lowest cost has nothing to do with low quality.
Now it's not lowest bidder, it's highest campaign contributor
@@blackhawk7r221low cost absolutely affects quality. It means people are paid less, material quality is compromised and QA checks are minimal or fudged to keep beancounters happy.
@@RobotacularRoBob You do not understand. The government lays out a specification beforehand, and that spec determines quality. From there, they simply choose whatever company can produce that component for the lowest cost. At no time does level of quality suffer. Remember, we are speaking specifically of government procurement, not low cost Chinese trash in a Walmart shelf.
@@blackhawk7r221 with the corruption rife in government I'm not so sure about that.
It is fortunate for Vandivier that he didn't work for Boeing. He probably would not have lived to tell the tale.
I know!
I used to work for Vought at it's plant in Dallas where they made the A-7. And there were some old timers that told stories from the days of the Corsairs. One was from the -7D/E and the Vulcan Cannon. When they 1st put the gun on the Corsair, they went to do a ground test fire of the gun. And when they fired the gun, the recoil and vibration caused panels to pop open or fall off the aircraft like a cartoon
*These days* ---------------- Whistleblowers not only risk their jobs ---------------- *They risk being imprisoned - or suffering a fate - far worse*
Do not put Snowden and his ilk into this whistleblower club because they did not follow the proper course of action, e.g., speak with superiors, consult an attorney, etc. They are liars and traitors and would sell their own grandmother to achieve media exposure. Regarding them as a folk hero makes them a poor example of one.
Boing Boing
Especially when outing Boeing.
@@TCW838😬
Goes to show how money has corrupted our country. The found flaws and reported them,with lives at stake they did what needed to be done Instead of shutting up and collecting money.
The senior test pilot at LTV was a friend. He loved the A-7. Said the A-7 was a dream to fly. Said the HUD was magic.
Short aside: When General Dynamics prototyped the F-16, they needed a heads-up-display but did not have one. Someone from the Fort Worth plant called up LTV in Grand Prairie and asked if GD could borrow an A-7 HUD for their prototype. LTV agreed, and the A-7 HUB became the F-16 HUD.
I received a paddling in 3rd grade in the early 80s because a buddy of mine and I were in class and heard jets fly over. We jumped up excited and ran to the window and saw a flight of 2 or 3 A7s fly by at a distance that put them almost parallel to the 2nd floor window. Even though we had SC Air National Guard and Myrtle Beach AFB flying A7s, it was the only time I saw A7s in flight. Worth every smack to the behind.
Teacher was a Commie not to realize you were proud of America.
It’s interesting that the people who are acting as whistle blowers are the ones who are punished for their actions.
If I may clarify further on the guns, the Navy A-7A/B/C variants had 2 internally mounted Colt Mk-12 20mm cannons (1 on each side). The Air Force's A-7D and the Navy's A-7E versions had the M-61 Vulcan. The Mk-12s were only able to carry 250 rounds each, while the M-61 Vulcan could carry 1,030 rounds of ammunition, plus the pilot could select a rate of fire from 4,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute.
Back to the subject of topic, the general public really has no earthly idea as to the amount of fraud and corruption that occurs in military contracts. The list is just incredible, and our servicemen and women are expected to trust with their lives that the tools and weapons we give them will work. When you have huge defense conglomerates like Boeing and Lockheed-Martin lay in the same bed with our government that promise them large sums of money, OUR money, there's going to be corners cut and a lot of white washing of negative reports. That's just bound to happen.
JFK admin tried to start a new office of DoD Contract oversight due to how much waste, fraud, and abuse was built into the system by Mafia unions and locally-controlled companies used to this sort of contract skimming business. One of the candidates for that new office was Thomas D'Alesandro Jr. He came to interview for the job at the WH with his family, including his young beautiful daughter, Nancy. The Kennedy bros realized D'Alesandro Jr. was a Mafia stooge for the 5 families and was only handed his elections into Congress and Mayor of Baltimore with Mafia rigging and loyalty, so he was passed over for consideration. His daughter married a guy named Paul Pelosi in 1963 and later "got elected” into the House of Reps. You know her as Nancy Pelosi.
I was a QA personnel for a major military contractor. We provided depot level repairs for a communications system. A system came thru that I didn’t normally work on, a manager level QA person did that system. When I pulled the procedures paperwork I realized they didn’t even have a test bench for the system. When I brought that up I was told just sign and stamp the paperwork. I refused and had to quit. The manager had just been paper whipping the acceptance paperwork. I was so upset but I’ve been so lucky in my career.
You did the right thing. Sometimes it only takes one person to set things straight. Aerospace nowadays is a lot different. People are actually encouraged to speak up when something isn’t right. And when they do they’re rewarded for it instead of punished. That’s how it should have always been. Continual Improvement. Except for Boeing.
@@privatepilot4064 I used to go to Boeing as part of the Navy inspection team for one of the aircraft major system. We would document everything and Boeing would fight us tooth and nail. Then instead of fixing critical items we’d find they would go to the Program Office and get the office to accept the risk. My group got to be such a PITA to them they were able to have the program office take us out of the inspection cycle. After my last trip I came back and asked my boss who I’d have to bestow sex*al favors on to never go back to Boeing. The P-8 is a terrible platform. If the aircraft couldn’t do a particular portion of the P-3 mission the program office would change the requirements. Funny how many military members retired and were hired by Boeing after the cooling off time.
Its a shame the new hire that found the original problem wasn't listened to in the first place. It could have stopped the whole fiasco.
All the needed information seemed to be there to do so. Instead, B.F.G. decided to begin a coverup.
All that money they wasted, only to end up "doing the right thing" in the end, at no expense to the taxpayer.
But at what cost to all the employees there, involved, or otherwise? And to shareholders, during the time?
They didn't feel the need to correct the problem, until someone pointed it out to others.
When family knows your misgivings and you don’t care, but it’s a big deal when other people find out, that double standard* in the morals of people is usually a sign of narcissism.
The sad truth is that this whole episode would be more remembered if there were dead pilots attached to the issue.
My father ran Grumman's Flight Test. They needed a test bed for the A6 Intruder. Their solution involved a Ford Body and a Cadillac Ambulance drive train equip with the brake under development. They needed something that would accelerate fast and stop in the length of their runway at Bethpage, NY. Once they were happy with assembly operation they moved on to testing with actual aircraft.
As a retired engineer involved in a lot of testing over the years, I am not surprised that this occurred. It is way too common in American industrial practice for managers to panic when major problems are found that would interfere with their schedules. Their response generally is to cover up the problem and then figure out who to blame it on later when it inevitably gets revealed. So it is no surprise that the managers involved in this situation never paid any price.
At a major aerospace company back in the late '80's I was doing an after heat treat 'check and adjust' some brackets before shipping them out. They were SO bad there was no way to save them and I told my supervisor that I had to scrap them. "They're just spares...ship 'em" was his response. I refused. He said "You're fired!" I told him he didn't have the authority to fire me and that I was NOT going to ship defective parts. We went up the chain of command to the Shop Director who was very upset to have to deal with me. "You need to do what your boss tells you to do". "He wants me to ship defective parts...do you want me to ship defective parts'? "Oh NO! But you have to do what your boss tells you to do". We went back and forth like this a few times until he realized that I was not going to budge...and that I also was going over his head if he pressed this issue". So he transferred me to another department. Seems like managers are like this all over the world...and that's a sad thing to say but it also explains a lot of the problems we keep seeing.
Good morning class! Cheers to anyone who remembers the smell of mimeographs and watching film strips in school!
And used the old fashioned paper cutter. Plus an overhead projector
Put that slide ruler down buddy.
And _Opaque Projectors!_
(WHAT did we budding nerds do before serving in AV Departments in high-school?? 😉)
@@RetiredSailor60Good to hear from you Retired Sailor! Correct, I forgot those! 😊
opague?? Maybe overhead?
As a USAF/ANG Rescue Chief we rolled on many A-7 Hot Brake emergencies.
.. 11:38 .. "these USAF A-7D's tail sign MB...Myrtle Beach." (Myrtle Beach South Carolina) I was stationed there, August 1970 to March 1974...Myrtle had 3 squadrons of A-7D's, under the 354th Tactical Fighter Wing...353rd 354th and 355th fighter squadrons respectfully. I was assigned to the 353rd as a life support tech...we maintained the pilots flight gear along with aircraft survival equipment. Each squadrons had 25 flight ready aircraft with 5 standby, 30 total...It was quite awesome to see 90 aircraft on the flight line. They were "beautiful birds" and fully loaded with ordinance...menacing...you didn't want to be on the receiving end!!
When I arrived at Myrtle, we were getting the A7's new from Vaught. The buildup took about a year to fulfill the complement of 90 aircraft. We were training to deploy TDY to Korat Royal Thai Air Base Thailand...All 3 squadrons deployed October 1970 as we would be in direct support of Linebacker II. All squadron personnel would each have a 3 month rotation with option to extend another 3 months. I was there 12 months...The bombing of North Vietnam and Hiphong broke the back of the Viet Cong and all our POWs were released...I simply cannot explain that exhilaration, knowing I had a part in that...to this day I can tell you the names of each & every pilot in my squadron, they all returned from every mission 💖
Serving my country was best days of my life and I would gladly do it all over!!
Col Wayne E Davis was my squadron commander...Full Bird Colonel...May you rest in peace sir (2016) you were an inspiration to me. A great leader with compassion, respect and humility for everyone who served under you. I have many fond memories of you and Myrtle Beach, we were truly "a band of brothers" and as you know, those of us who remained at Myrtle after retirement or discharge, remained close...God bless you sir and your beautiful family .. 🙏
Do you remember an A7 from Myrtle Beach crashing while TDY to Korat. The pilot was a Captain and a really nice guy and I cannot recall his name. This was early 1974. I was working the flight line that day and worked a red ball on his plane before it took off. I am 73 now and think about him everyday.
@@rpm12091 If memory serve me, that would be Captain Lunsford...He was tall with dark, almost black hair. I had rotated back to Myrtle Dec 73 before that happened...and yes, he was a great guy!
Lol, it's quite astounding to hear another voice from those days at MB and Korat !!
Did you by chance know Sgt Bill Pruitt who worked at FMC? My Wife and I were good friends with him & his wife Jennie, we would play Pinochle every Friday night along with consuming too many beers!! I really miss those days at the Beach 💖
Just think, in 20 years he can do a video about the boeing scandal & all of the whistle-blowers that kept mysteriously dying. Looking forward to the video.
Great stuff THG, keep the quality programming coming. Been watching you for a few years and looking forward to the future.
What did the spring say when it popped out of the airplane causing it to crash?
“Boeing! Boeing! Boeing!”
My grandfather CDR Wayne Stephens was CO of VA-146 from 1969-71 and took the A-7E into combat for the first time. Thanks for using a photo from VA-146 in the video!!
Thank you for the lesson.
This is cheap compared to the Littoral Combat Ship debacle currently playing out in the US.
😱🤡 what a complete clown show the ‘Littoral Ship’ fiasco is.
@@Lightning613This week, the latest plan for the LCS is to send 6 them to Bahrain as Mine hunter ships.
Just this week there is an update on that. They are supposed to be sending a number of LCS to the Persian Gulf to support mine hunting operations.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Every ship can be a minesweeper.
Once.
@@WALTERBROADDUS that’s an audacious plan and then some. The ships that are unable to get 10 nautical miles to sea without completely breaking down??!!!!
In the 21st Century, Corporate America has shortened the oft quoted phrase: "There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it again" to, simply "There is never time to do it right PERIOD"
This is why the A7E is my favourite. A Basket for refuelling and a tail hook for braking.
Sadly,this type of behavior is the normal of humanity and of all countries and not solely an isolated incident... 😔
It's never wrong to do the right thing.
It can be devastating to the whistleblower. I know one chap whose (former) employer retaliated such that he was unable to find work for years after. Things got tough when savings ran out and his marriage failed.
I certainly respect whistleblowers, but also understand when people just keep their heads down and comply.
Video starts with THG hugging his catto. I love this! ❤
What a wonderfully beautiful kitty! Oh... Another great episode! Thank you for your content!
All A-7 models had guns. The original Navy models had a pair of Colt Mk12 20 millimeter cannon. The A-7D replaced those with a General Electric M-61 Vulcan 20mm cannon.
The A-7E had the M-61 also. I think it was part of the “E” package upgrade along with the Allison TF-41 engine.
Excellent comment
I sanded down A7 for the 185th in Iowa. I was in a civilian program in highschool. It was a very interesting experience.
William Proxmire, how long has it been since I have heard that name? Wow, I must have gotten old over the years...😅😅😅😅
I live about 20 minutes away from Troy. We did a lot for our old war efforts, now they call us a flyover state despite 25 Fortune 500 companies being based here.
Being a so-called “flyover state” is a plus these days, with both coasts mired in foolishness and poor work ethics.
I'm just worried about getting hit when their fly-over turns out to be a crash.
@@tjwelch62, right. So no "foolishness" and no "lack of ethics" exists between the coasts. Generalizations inevitably fail, and dumb ones fail quickly. Yours is a lazy generalization with no factual basis and definitely no accompanying robust data set and rigorous statistical analysis. You should note that your assumptions and biases do not qualify as anything remotely resembling a factual basis. Your comments do reflect poor or absent critical thinking skills.
@@robinseibel7540 You sound like a manager trying to keep your department's reports worry free for the higher ups.
@robinseibel7540 His remarks are repeatedly proven on the nightly news reports of both mainstream & online agencies.
But, your snarky, know-it-all comment proves your residency in one of the mentioned coastal regions & total adherence to said muck-mired political beliefs!😂😂😂
“Corporate ethics”, sounds like an oxymoron.
Thanks for the tour, History Guy.
They fired the guns on a test stand early in the morning, Bur-ump.
LTV lost a test pilot on the runway in about that time period.
I worked on the AF A7. I can't say it was fun but I really do miss it sometimes.
I work in the acquisition workforce at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton where all this took place. Long before my time, but I've worked with some real sleezy types in industry. Like I'm at a flight test and I can sense the company is hiding something from me. And I know they are taking shortcuts. On the other hand, there was one engineer in that company that was privately giving me the straight dope more or less. But I've dealt with sleezy types working on the government side, too. The public would be surprised that the only ethics the federal government cares about is what you are doing with taxpayer money or if you are accepting inappropriate gifts. You can be the sleeziest scumbag of a person and the government doesn't care about that kind of ethics.
I video taped this aircraft crashing outside Dobbins ARB in Marietta GA. back in the 90’s. If it had stayed in the air 5 seconds longer it would have crashed into my condo. The Pilot ejected but his shoot failed to open and he ended up in a coma for 3 months. The aircraft hit an apartment complex and killed 3 people. The pilot was doing touch and goes, which was not uncommon to see next to the base.
I remember that on the news. I worked on A-7Es in the Navy.
@@privatepilot4064 Then you saw my video tape!
At least the A7 was build by Vought and not Boeing. That whistleblower got to live to tell the tale.
Shit posting.
My single most extensive contract oversight experience was as an Air Force human engineer monitoring part of a huge Boeing air defense system being built for the Royal Saudi Air Force, but this was in the 1980s before their employees kept having so many fatal accidents.
Buttercup and Whiskers are happy to see the new history cat.
This caught my eye because I remember taking an erhics class in college where I was on a class team specifically assigned this particular case study to present to the class. I don't think this video sufficiently emphasized that the brake design had to be redesigned on order to meet requirements, but this redesign was done at company expense.
The History Guy looking like a Bond villain with his cat.
Instead of SPECTRE, his org shall be known as Honorable Individualized Solid Timeline of Realized Years.
The world of business has eroded to "profits over quality." In 20 years with our nations leading aerospace manufacturer, I saw where manufacturing "the best" was replaced with "doing it cheaper" for better profits. In the end, lives are lost and the company's reputation destroyed.
Well, after trying unsuccessfully to get a job with, "Our nation's leading aerospace manufacturer," I'm glad I didn't if that's how they roll.
@@JamesHolbrook-eh5sp They went from the best employment package in the industry to one of the worst. Bonuses gone, healthcare only marginally subsidized for employee ONLY, retirement relegated to what you could easily find on your own. Where's the incentive in that?
Well we made it to Friday. That is some history worth celebrating right there.
I flew the A-7D for a few years.. actually to the end…. The brakes were always an issue. We had a 10000 ft runway and tried to make the 7000 ft turn off at a 130kt touchdown speed…. It was 50/50 if you would get “hot brakes” . A ground crew would run out and put a wax stick on the brake to see if they were “hot” . It was a normal thing. Hot brakes that is…. I will say this, I had to stop one landing when a plane taxied onto the runway after I touched down and I just pushed the brakes and the anti skid cycled. 3000ft from touch to stop. The brakes worked…. And melted…. It closed the runway until they jacked the plane and put 2 fresh assemblies on it. I never knew why this plane always was the hot brake queen….
Great story…
On the differences between the USAF and Navy versions of the A-7, there was a sea story* I heard once. A couple of USAF A-7's landed at a Navy base in California, and in addition to fuel, the pilots asked the Navy guys to recharge the pilot oxygen systems. Apparently, Navy A-7's used a higher pressure O2 system than the USAF version, but nobody told the poor young petty officer who was sent out to the flightline with an oxygen cart. He plugged in the cart, cranked up the pressure and opened the valve. The Corsair promptly exploded! I saw a photo: the engine was sitting there surrounded by airplane parts. They sailor was thought to be dead, but they couldn't find his body. A couple of days later he showed up and explained: After the plane blew up, he took off running and hopped the fence to go hide out in town, thinking that for sure he was going to burn for this. I didn't hear what they actually did to the guy, but I'm guessing he didn't get punished as bad as he was expecting lol.
*In US Navy/Marine parlance, a "sea story" is a story which may be true or may be complete BS or something in between.
Well told! Have you met the infamous “Sea Lawyer”? The guy that purportedly knew all the regulations. Best wishes!
@@privatepilot4064 Oh yeah. Sea lawyers, lollygoggers, pogues, various types of shitbird, you name it.
The difference between a fairy tale and a sea story is that one starts out "Once upon a time", the other starts out "This ain't no shit".
I would say the young petty officer didn't read the placard at the connection and take note!
@@brucelytle1144 Exactly!
I had to do a case study on this incident in college for my business degree. Was one of the more interesting things I learned early on about business ethics.
When I was stationed on the USS Eisenhower in the early 1980s we lost an A7 over the side when the brakes failed. It went over the edge of the flight deck and landed in the water upside down so the piolet could not eject. We lost both the piolet and the aircraft. RIP
Good Friday morning History Guy and everyone watching. Take a moment to remember those in our Armed Forces who gave their lives in the service to our country in wars past and present. OS1(SW/AW) USN Retired here...
My brother Cmdr David P. Dudek flew the A7 with the Royal Maces. RIP Dave.
USAF was not that impressed with either the Phantom or Corsair II but was directed to purchase both by Robert Strange McNamara. TAC and ADC strongly preferred the F-105 and F-106, respectively. Opinion on the Phantom was mixed in USAF.....it was large and powerful and could carry a large load, but it cruised much slower than either the -105 or -106 and was a less accurate bomb platform.
With regard to the A-7D, TAC couldn't get rid of them fast enough and transferred them to the ANG while they were being built. That was the first time ANG had received new build aircraft straight from the factory. However, ANG did love them and operated them for 20 years.
USAF certainly preferred the F-105 over the A-7 for strike, but it ended up preferring the A-7 over the A-1 for Close Air Support, which is what it was bought for at the insistence McNamara to make the Army happy.
The F-106 was not really an alternative to the F-4. The F-4 was adopted by USAF to fill an urgent need for a new tactical fighter. As a dedicated bomber interceptor for ADC the F-106 was unsuited for a role for which the F-4 was ready.
The Allison TF-41 completely changed the A-7 from the original Pratt & Whitney TF30 engine. It was a great improvement.
@@privatepilot4064 The plane must have been quite a dog with the TF-30 because even with the TF41 I'm told its thrust/weight was not very impressive.
@@gort8203actually, the airforce wanted F5 instead of A7s. They were faster and sexier, but could only carry 5% of the bomb load and only had 10% of the range.
@@georgeburns7251 I don't believe USAF seriously considered acquiring the F-5 for service as a tactical fighter. They did the Skoshi Tiger combat evaluation to demonstrate its capability to the foreign market for which it had been developed. The F-5A was barely supersonic when clean, and it was no competition for the A-7 in terms of range, payload, or avionics. USAF already had one lightweight fighter with limited range and payload and I doubt they wanted another one. I'm sure there were pilots in the air force who wanted the F-5 instead of the A-7, but I have never heard that the service wanted that. Can you point to documentation?
Advice to young engineers: Familiarize yourself early with the construct of the underside of all buses.
Lance, you left out the critical part about what happened to the whistleblower. I’d wager his life was ruined, and perhaps that of his wife and all those children. That’s always the “rest of the story” in cases such as this. I learned this, the hard way, personally.
For this whistleblower it worked out. He took a full time position at the Troy Daily News and had a successful career in journalism. Years later he told the New York Times that he thought that the community never resented him because nobody lost their jobs from the scandal.
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Excellent. It really can just work out. Makes the other end of the spectrum all the worse. I'm looking at you, Boeing.
@@TheHistoryGuyChannelAs a former small-town newspaper guy, I can assure you the whistleblower made far less money in journalism than he did in manufacturing.
Here's a episode idea. The printing press at Revolutionary War time and it's significance to that war.
Sounds like what happens even today... whistle blowers highlight a specific issue or mismanagement only for the higher ups to evade prosecution and the complainant still victimised and persecuted. 😢
The early naval A-7 variants (A/B/C) all had guns. Two of them, both sides of the intake. But those were Colt Mk 12 single barreled revolver guns. The A-7D (and the A-7E) had a single M61 Vulcak on the bottom left side of the intake.
The History Cat is always cool.
His furry feline friend seems pretty cool too. 😺😸😻
As another retired engineer, who wrote, executed, ran test programs and wrote the reports, i found this very interesting and informative. It's true - some upper management would like to 'adjust' parameters to appear to be in-spec. to more upper management, and customers, to hit those published milestone dates.
Oh, that US Government procurement processes could become truly honest and transparent. 😢
There will always be a set percentage who are susceptible to taking shortcuts, and when a few of them end up in the same workplace they'll cause problems.
Reminds me of the NASA space shuttle cold weather O - Ring scandal that did result in disaster & death.
Has anybody actually working around the A-7 day-to-day ever called it Corsair II? I've only ever heard them called simply A-7 or SLUF (Short Little Ugly F*****).
When I was in the Navy I never heard it called a SLUF. I think that was an Air Force term. We just referred to it as a Corsair.
Ugly for sure
@@privatepilot4064 - That makes sense, since the Navy and Marines have history with and reverence for Vought's F4U Corsair and for the the Air Force it was the little brother to the B-52, a.k.a. BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F*****).
Immediate thumbs up for the History Cat.
Them's the brakes...
G.I. Joe hardhat diver in the background, vintage 1970. Night visioned spider smashing mini panther in the foreground for a while. Great story, THG, thank you.
Thank you, THG. I knew of but had forgotten this case and you revealed a few details that I did not remember. Thank you.
During the Covid pandemic I was attending a UK NHS hospital ward 3 times a week for dialysis. On arriving at the ward all patients had their temperatures checked by a nursing assistant. Most temperatures were being recorded as below 36 degrees ... many below 35: "That's OK ,,, you don't have a fever." One patient arrived having recorded his temperature at home as 38.4 ... but was let onto the ward. Patients who developed fevers after having dialysis (having picked up an infection from the dialysis machine) were said to have normal temperatures ... according to the ward thermometers. .. and sent home. The problem was that these thermometers were very sensitive to drafts ... the wards were being kept "chilly". I reported this to the Chief Executive ...left a message on her phone. This resulted in my being approached by 2 Security staff on the hospital grounds, as I left the ward after my dialysis. "You're the man whose been going on about the thermometers?" When I said I was I got the response: "What are you doing on hospital premises?" Patients' temperatures are still being inaccurately recorded throughout the hospital. I was told by a senior nurse: "We trust our instruments!" Crazy, eh? There are other medical instruments being used that give "wildly" inaccurate results and patients are "suffering" as a consequence. It's like the senior management are "blind" to what is going on and the staff are "brainwashed" to "not think". Our NHS has been described as "A dictatorship with a small country attached ".
The repeated lesson from History is, don't be a whistle blower. The personal consequences are high. Termination of employ and the end of a career.
Your episodes are presented in interesting, factual manner - you have done well since less than 50,000 subs.
Thank you History Guy
I am an aviation buff and scale modeler and have read books on the A-7. None mentioned this scandal at all...
Hello History Cat!
I appreciate you and thank you for making content.
Very interesting. I love this channel.
Great work Sir thank you
Your cat has a nice tuxedo 😂
All the best to everyone
THANK YOU HISTORY GUY&TEAM...🙏✨👌🦉🥰🐲💖
I remember seeing this covered briefly in one of my college textbooks. It failed to mention when the scandal took place or that it affected the Air Force model.
I studied engineering ethics a few decades ago and I'm shocked this story wasn't included. We studied the shuttle disaster and the Ford Pinto and the hotel in Kansas City MO that resulted in the deaths of many people because of a collapsed catwalk. Oh and the Tacoma Narrows bridge was extra fun because the guy who was charged with buying insurance pocketed the money...thinking that bridges don't collapse.
Great video...👍
"Business Ethics". Isn't that an oxymoron?
Excellent video sir. I used to work at the facility that did the major overhauls for these aircraft and it was in the early to mid "80's when they were phased out of inventory. IIRC the Puerto Rican Air National Guard was the last U.S. operator. One of my former supervisors was an engineer for his aircraft - perhaps the next time I see him I'll inquire about this mess.
Love the beautiful cat!!
I worked ECM on the A-7D for the OHANG. I never knew this story.
I worked on the Navy's A-7C and E models in 1969 to 1974, but as an electrician at NARF Jax, no knowledge of brakes. Not long after this asbestos brake pads were banned, wonder how that effected the brakes. This was interesting.
Most people in management have no clue what the technical people they are managing actually do. It's getting worse. People below 35 have such short attention spans there is no hope of them being able to focus long enough to understand a complex problem.
I started reading your comment but did not finish because a squirrel ran by
Love your videos
Economy in Government
I worked on the A7 aircraft in VA 122 in NAS Lemoore and in VA 153 aboard CVA34 in the Tonkin Gulf. I was in the airframe shop so we were in charge of changing the brakes so this story was very interesting to me.
THG, I'll bet that name is pronounced Van di VEER, not Van diver. I say that only because I knew someone with that exact spelling, and that is how they pronounced it.
I had a manger tell me - back in the late 90s working It in a major manufacturing plant in Springfield, Ohio - "It's more important for it (software) on time, than for it to work."
I knew a guy that managed software development for a small company. Often the software wouldn't be done in time for shipping the equipment, so the company would find the very slowest shipper that would take more than a week to get anywhere. They'd meanwhile be furiously working on the software, which could be air mailed to the destination. (Before the Internet).
my Dad worked on F-4s for many years with the USAF and ANG as both crew chief and QA inspector. he could be critical of most other aircraft, but he spoke well of the A-7. despite the unofficial "SLUF" nickname it was a good jet, tough and reliable, with a bomb nav system that could drop a highdrag in your mailbox, or something like that 😁 love the kitteh!!
Still was seeing an A-7 'drop' a puddle of hydraulic fluid on the flight deck after landing on into the 1980s.
Had quite a reputation for it, too.
Wow, thank you! I KNOW of this scandal. When I was in the US Army, I was stationed at Field Station Kunia on Oahu, near Schofield Barracks. Some of my spare time was taking classes offered by then Hawaii Pacific University, on Schofield Barracks. One of the classes intrigued me, it was a "Business Ethics" class. I signed up for it and the subject of our first discussion was this very scandal! I had to write a paper on this and all the players here you mention, B.F. Goodrich and LTV, well, yea, I know. The other thing I had to do was a research paper, and I chose, well, the Ford Pinto and Ford's 'homicide' case... THANK YOU!!!
Notice..government oversight always results in nothing… it takes a brave whistleblower to expose the truth. So why do we need government oversight?
I was just in the very test lab yesterday.
"We were forced to do the right thing before our lies got out, so why are you even mad?"
The really funny thing is that the Navy did not retire the A-4 until 2003. The Marine Corps retired it earlier in 1998.the funny thing is the A-7 was retired from the Navy in 1991.