Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier 6L6 vs EL34 Tube Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2010
- Side By Side Comparison of the Dual Rectifier with 6L6 and EL34 power tubes. Hear the difference for yourself! We had a 4x12 Rectifier cab mic'ed with a Shure KSM27 and Electrovoice Raven.
All amp settings were the same, just power tubes switched out. Check out more info on the 2010 Reborn Dual Rectifier here: www.haggertysmusic.com/shop/me...
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great demo, i love the way that you had the two set up side by side. no having to go back and forth on the time slider, really makes it easy to concentrate on what's really important: the sound.
The El34s have really bright cleans, but i think i like the 6L6 for the higher gain stuff. has more of that chunky bottom end
Me too..i liked the 6L6's for the high gain songs;and the El34's for very clean toned riffs or ballads.
for clean I like the 6L6 and for the modern I dug the EL34 more, so basically if I owned this amp I would never be happy hahah
flipidy94 a road king gives you the best of both worlds
You got it, boss. Why you want Fenders for cleans, and Marshalls for dirt ... forget this damn fool Rectum Fryer stuff ...
If I owned this amp I would be very happy !
this really shows a lot of how dynamic this amp is. No matter your playing style, there's something to be had from it. Great video!
Me personally, I prefer EL34s, but I would enjoy the hell out of it with 6L6s as well, I'd like to hear one with EL34s next to one with 6L6s.
EL34's Sound Superb in this Amp!!!
I'm thinking of switching the EL34s out in my Single Rec for 6L6s, but I wanted a clear comparison between them. After watching this, I think I'll switch over to 6L6s. You guys helped me out a lot. Thanks!
Thank you for for taking the time and making the effort to do this.
Much appreciated..
To my ears the EL34's had the "edgier" sound with prounced pcideffinition better for over driven tones... pinched harmonics etc.. the 6L6's had the elegant round girth for clean and semi clean tones and a different kind of hard distortion... both were good... each is a color and its up to the painters touch...
Really nice demonstration. My personal preference is the el34. Seems more dynamic and clear in the cleans, a bit smoother in the gain tones
I think this is more of a showcase of the Dual Rectifier's preamp circuit and tone stack... I'd say 80% of the tone was derived from the guitar and the amp's design, with the finishing touches of the tone only coming from the power tubes. Not all amps are like that though. In this video, the Dual Rec sounds like a Dual Rec, power tubes be damned. Overall though, I noticed the 6L6s had some squeaky compression and fat distortion whereas the EL34s sounded cleaner and crunchier.
Absolutely marvelous. You have done what I cannot do (play music). I am an engineer. I have recently documented output tube cathode current for 6L6 vs EL34 vs KT88/6550. Your first scene had a much cleaner sound switching to the EL34 (less cathode current and better linearity - i.e. cleaner sound) I will continue to document harmonic profiles for various amps on a spectrum analyzer. Love what you did. Keep up the good work.
Great demo. Good demo of what the Dual Rec does.
thanks alot for taking your time on this.
I can't remember where we had the masters set, but we always have our amps pushing a lot of volume in our demos.
Doing the Lord's work
Thanks. I don't hear much of a difference. Both EL34 and 6L6 tubes were designed for hi-fi sound reproduction. In my experience sonic differences between power tube varieties is not really noticed until you start to clip the waveform. This didn't seem like it was anywhere near those volume levels for that amp.
Very professional comparison. Great player and handsome too.
I like different parts of the tone represented by both sets of tubes. I wonder what KT88'S would sound like? I imagine if you took your time and used a 31 band EQ, you could probably arrive at the tone your looking for with either tubes.
man they make such a difference!
amazing videos !!! thank you for your comparison !!!
you can hear a real difference without turning on the hd mode. nice !
The clean sound of the 6l6 is better in my opinion, but i think the drive channels sound better with the el34.. thank you for a great demo !
@akettviking Thanks for watching! Did you have a preference between 6L6 and EL34? So far the feedback I'm getting is leaning towards the EL34 side of things.
I like the el-34's... wonder what the difference would be on bass guitar.
I would love to see you guys do a comparison of a Bugera 333xl vs. Mesa Dual Rec!
Of course there are the amplifiers and THERE ARE THA MESA'S...proud to own one
Clean channel 12AY7 powered by a pair of 6L6s, then gain channel 12AX7 driven by some EL34s, dream amp setup.
Favorite Amps:
Sunn Model T (Fender reissue)
'72 Fender Bassman 100 (Silverface)
Peavey 6534+
All through my Mesa 4x12 cab
EL34's sound less "hi-fi", notes seem to decay slightly slower, slightly narrower frequency response; though the difference is extremely slight.
@haggertysmusic
where will the stamp be? I bought the amplifier at Guitar Center with as far as I know, factory settings/installation. If it ends up that I do have the wrong bias for the tubes that are installed, should I just switch it? How will I know if the amp is damaged bc of this? Sounds fine when I play it...
This video kicks ass because you played Satch Boogie.
I just noticed that my bias switch is set to EL34s but I have the original tubes installed that came stock when I bought the model (dual rec. , 3 channel) which apparently are the 6L6.
Question is, should I just change the switch setting to 6L6? Is this a big deal? Or do I have a problem here? Any feedback appreciated!
@fluff191 Thanks man! Glad you're enjoying them. If you have any suggestions for future videos, we're all ears!
Cleans: 6L6
Raw: EL34
Vintage: 6L6
Modern: 6L6
Just my opinion: 6L6's win by a little bit. They drive the amp just a little more and have that punchy thud-thud on distorted tones. They also give the amp a little more head room so you get that "filling the room" type of warmth. The El34 sound nice. Reminds me of Kill 'em all from metallica
Yea but then when you mix with a band any good AE will end up rolling off the EQ from around 200 hz otherwise your guitar will mush with the bass and kick. And live you need the mids to cut through. 6L6s don't have that. Best for funk cleans. KT77s are a great blend of the two.
I agree with that, but how often are you playing in a venue that you need to cut through that much noise? If I want a tone, I try my best to achieve it, and in large venues, I would just mic it
the difference between the 2 is much more noticeable when your actually there with the amp, u can not only hear the difference but more importantly feel the difference.
2:02 Satch boogie on a boogie :)
what brand tubes where used please?
Seen and heard enough I'm switching to El34s in my Mesa
How much cost a El34s???
Have seen & heard the same. You need to go really high end EL34 if you can. Have changed to JJ’s EL34 & I’m about to change back to 6l6. The reason being I got sick of the hard-edged, brittle high mids, at the expense of the clear natural high end.
Amp tech said try Mullards NOS, they run cooler than JJ’s.
It’s a very subjective thing either way though! Good luck :)
Ill tell you, you guys really do the "right " kind of comparisons!
Can I ask you if the cabinet was connected with the 4ohm input or 8ohm? Thanks
I play in a periphery/corelia esque prog metal band. I use a Peavey 3120 and play many different styles.
Which tube would suit me better?
i like how they both sound like a big round rock dropped into still water on those low-e palm mute chugs.
I kinda like both. figures. hehe. I like the clean sound of the el34 and the muddy like tones of the distorted 6l6. what to do?
can you please make a video of the pt100.
awh hell yeah, Satch Boogie! and well played too :)
I've got a Peavey Mace VT, which is designed for 6 6L6GC tubes. It has a fixed (non-adjustable) tube bias voltage. It can play with 2,4 or all 6 tubes installed. The tubes work in pairs, so as long as I keep the EL34s paired and the 6L6s paired there should not be a problem, maybe. Now for the Question. Instead of using just one kind of tube, what if I used 2 EL34s and 2 6L6s? or 4 EL34s and 2 6L6s? or 2 EL34s and 4 6L6s? Couldn't I get the best of both worlds with the right mix of both kinds?
Everyone has different opinions in tone, that is what creates diversity. I am getting a set of JJ EL34s for my Rectoverb. I currently have KT66s in there and that sounded really great on clean but not so good on distortion (too much fizz in the high end and the low end was too tubby). Great video.
@metalmaniac426 Thanks for the suggestion. We aren't a Bugera dealer so I can't get a hold of their stuff, but if you send it, we'll film it!!! :-)
well, each musician has own sound, in my case, I see 6L6 more treble than EL34.
I would like to know, is there a difference if I use EL34 TAD or EL34 Mesa Boogie or EL34 JJ?
@metalmaniac426 Yep! Extra oomph in the mids, and the low end just kind of shifts to a tighter place. Thanks for watching!
I liked the 6L6's better/ I thought the 6L6's had more grit to them than eL34's. But i'm thinking that EL34's would probably get my vote for clean playing though? Thanks for the video.
@pwestcott Yes indeed. These were standard Mesa EL34's. Thanks for watching!
6L6s has that warmth that i love. I play heavy metal core with my dual rec with TS808 as mid boost, and the boost gives me the mid, top end i love.
win win!
@reveries119 Are you positive someone didn't put EL34's in it? The tubes will be stamped with the designation. Running the bias switch in the wrong position risks tube failure and damage to the amplifier. You should make sure the bias switch matches the tubes that are installed.
WOuld love to hear this amp with some KT77s
To me the EL34s sounded brighter and the 6L6s sounded warmer. Opinions?
I thought EL 34's sounded better, but overall not a huge difference. I'm thinking of trying it in mine. Did you use Mesa EL 34's or another brand?
I like 6L6s better because they sound pretty good to me, and if I have any problem cutting through the mix, I'll just run through the PA directly or mic my cab through the PA. Problem solved. I also enjoy playing at home between gigs/practice, and the 6L6s seem to be better at lower volumes than the EL34s.
I think you got it exactly right
I can hear the difference in this video, not so much with the Mark V. The beginning sounds a bit like Sextape by Deftones. Is the guitar tuned to Drop C?
@reveries119 The important part is whether your bias setting is proper. Sometimes a set of tubes will put you out of the allowed range set by a switch. If you need to use the other setting to reach the proper bias, it is fine. Too low a bias and you get crossover distortion. Too high and you'll burn them out too quickly. This happens with some Peaveys in the Ultra series as well. Hope you got it figured out before now though!
I only ever use my mesa dr on channel 1 crunch or channel 2 vintage, I use boost and od pedals, depending on my mood. I switched from Mesa 6L6s to J/J E34L power tubes, I prefer having less flabby bottom and more mid punch and chime. If I were a red channel mid scooped numetal genre player, I'm sure I would prefer 6L6s. Cheers.
The 6l6 have a better pick attack, that's why it sounds like the volume is lower in some parts. But I'm liking the 6l6 :)
EL34 to me, 6L6 sounds just a little bit too muddy and weak.
To my ears the EL34's have a little more character and sustain than 6L6's. But I do like the 6L6's when it comes to articulation. For example, I like my Vox AC50CP for very thick Orange tones and it actually has much more bottom end than my Dual Rec. I like the Dual for faster, more articulate playing. I might try running both in stereo. Or do you think I can attain that magical combination by swapping my Dual Rectifier's (Tremoverb) 6L6's to EL34"B's"? Anyone try Ruby EL34"B's" in a Dual Rec?
Unless you are at a volume that is straining the power tubes, 85% of your "tube tone" is coming from your phase inverter and pre-amp tubes.
2:18 can you tell me what is it ?
Mesa has the 6L6 side biased much colder than the EL34 side. WOuld like to hear the 6L6 side with a warmer bias setting. I thikn the EL34 side is warmer and more mid heavy, juicy if you will....but subtle.
Quite frankly I like both!! haha
@bailey12444 Currently we are not stocking Suhr amplifiers. However that will likely change early next year. If we do in fact take on their amp line you can certainly expect some videos showcasing their great tone!
Love 6L6!
@pwestcott Just swapped mine to EL34's and I'm loving it!!!!!
@spacemonkeyzass Buy a second dual rec and A/B??? :-)
the vintage sounds like vh brown sound. nice
@Athletictrainer09 Also if your using a "fixed bias" amp, check it anyway when you switch tubes. They dont always come out of the shop properly biased in the first place. Thats just life.
To my ears, EL34's are more open and enhanced in the mid frequencies. 6L6 are bassier, boomier and maybe a little more compressed. I think they are great for modern rock standards but if you like the punch and grit of 80's hard rock and metal then I woul stick with EL34. My point is if you combine Mesa Dual amps with Mesa cabs you already have tons of basses and most players struggle for years to better cut through the mix, so with EL34 you really have a chance to solve this issue.
The best Dual Rec I ever heard had KT66 tubes. Try it and you'll never go back to 6L6 or EL34's
The EL34s sound chimier- I like it
Kinda surprised how big the difference is.. Esp. Clean/Raw... I am sure the sound in the room and the feel are even more different..
The switching back and forth in the middle is a bit awkward. I think it would be better to just play a shorter bit with one tube, then play the same bit with the other tube.
This. Some quick A/Bs too.
The 6L6s sounded clearer here. But it may have been the brand etc.
KT77's are great in Rectos too.
Continued: only because I do most lead work in my band and to me it sounds best with those tubes. If I could I would have two heads with each set of tubes and blend the sound!
The cleans on the EL34 sound like more of a strat where the 6L6’s are a little fuller and not as chimey.. more like a humbucker
I'd like to know this too since I also rock a 3120.
I find them to be a little similar but the 6L6 gets my vote.
Really shows how small a difference tube type makes. Tone is in the circuit design imo.
6l6 for blues, el34 for rock and metal
@reveries119 I know its late but you could ruin your amp if its got 6l6s in it and you have it set for EL34s and just look at the tubes and it will say el 34 or 6l6
@CausesCancerTv if you want to try some really good EL34s try Shuguang thats exactly what Ruby tubes are just rebranded.
They sounded almost exactly the same until it got to the high-gain stuff, at which point the 6L6's sounded tighter and more defined with a more rigid attack on palm-muted pick-strokes, while the EL34's sounded smoother and a bit thicker across the spectrum. I wouldn't say the 6L6's had more bass, just more of an immediate and percussive low end "chug". Overall, I love the idea of being allowed to swap. I'd use EL34's for more classic style crunch stuff, and 6L6's for high-gain palm-muted rhythm.
@iLikechevelle Sorry, it's just something I wrote. Tuning is DADGAD. Thanks for watching!
After reading comments I agree with the fact that the EL34s come alive hot and cranked so this comparison was not very good in evaluating output based drive. My Marshall SL no master volume sounds unreal when pushed past 12 o clock when the tubes heat up you get thick, rich liquid yet searing lead to e and your attack and guitar volume change the sound dramatically so that when it comes to a solo you do not need an OD or Boost pedal, just roll up the guitar volume and anything is possible.
My Fender Twin with 6L6 tubes produce a wide open clean tone with a warm bottom end that is tight and not sluggish and sweet chimey highs. Not as sensitive to midrange EQ so I crank that and back off the bass and treble. Great pedal platform. Loud as shit with punch and with a great distortion/od pedal you can get some killer pre amp gain.
Both awesome and if you have an A/B switch use both fo
I really must get a new pair of el-34 quite soon, 6l6 sound so freakin fat, i want to hear the higher stuff! :D
+Heavy Metal For Life
Umm... 6L6 tubes has more treble(and bottom) than EL34's...
There's a reason the metal world fell in love with the 5150 when it came out, because of it's voicing compared to EL34 amps.
6L6's have always been known for brighter tones with more bottom, whereas the EL34's has more mids and cuts through better.
+Bru741iX dude, i have no idea why i said that, i obviously did not have any knowledge about tubes :). I ended up getting a new pair of 6l6's tho, they sound nice, but obv, EL-34 are a bit more pronounced mids and 6l6's has more low end and brighter tones but not as much mid pronounciation IMO.
Heavy Metal For Life Indeed. The old 6L6 vs EL34/84 is as old as the tubes them selves.
It all comes down to preference, and what you play. ;)
Yep ^^. love em both hehe..
@SlaughterSwitchBlade Your welcome! We are open to any other ideas you guys might have, so let me know.
@haggertysmusic
True true... you can compare any marshall with framus cobra which has el34s - framus sounds much more tight and aggresive.
EL34s sounds just a tad bit trebly-er and a bit less bassy. Other than that, there's not much difference in what I'm hearing...seems so slight, you could probably compensate for each tube with the tone controls...?
Thanks for the vid, it was most interesting!!
I like 6L6s a bit better for clean sounds and EL34s for gain. (I run KT77s in my rectifier for a nice compromise of both sounds)
There really isn't a huge difference in sound when it comes to power tubes in an amplifier. It usually is more of a feel and pick response thing. For example, the Eganter Renegade uses both 6L6s and EL34s and lets you use a knob to blend between the two, or use one or the other. The tone changes very little, but the 34s have a more woody and clear low end
The differences between these two tube types is so minor that the EQ section of the amp is more than capable of making up the difference to give you whatever tone you want out of either of them. The only reason why people think EL34s sound dramatically different to 6L6GCs is because Marshall amps used EL34 and EL84 tubes for availability reasons, and Fender amps used 6L6GCs and 6V6GTs, because that's what was available more easily in the US.
The tonal differences between these two companies was entirely a result of the huge differences in preamp designs. If you want to know how much of a difference even a few minor changes can make in a preamp circuit, compare a Fender 5F6A Bassman, and an early Marshall JTM45 that used virtually the same circuit, with KT66 valves and a few component values changed. Then compare that Marshall with a later Marshall that changed the tubes to EL34s with the same transformer, and then compare an even later version with the "correct" transformer for EL34s. Each combination has it's own charm, which comes more from the interaction between the characteristic plate impedance of the tubes and the output transformer design that anything else.
There is about as much difference between a 6L6GC and an EL34 (or 6CA7) as there is between a 6L6GC and a KT66 in a different direction, which is to say, not much. Stop obsessing about tubes, pick the ones you like, and play your guitar.
It all comes down to style or genre or even what your role is in a band mix. Soften clean highs with 6L6....great for a jazzy tones with the bridge pickup. Use the neck pickup with the EL34 to get blusey tone. These decisions are also based on what speaker cabinet you use. Combo 15", 2x12 vs 4x12. Anything such as crunch or heavy distortion is probably best served with EL34's and 6L6 mixed as you want the bottom end and the high mids push. Unless you're bass player starts complaining that you're taking over his frequency range.....especially if you're downtuned two whole steps.
6l6s seem more focused to me while the EL34s sound more raw. Definitely prefer the rounder tone in the cleans of the 6l6s, but if you want the brighter sound then EL34s are the way to go. I used to be a huge EL34 fan, but for the music I play I've found I need the thicker tone of 6l6s. Its all taste, I guess.
I hear a lot more fuzz with the EL34s in the modern channel, or are my ears playing tricks on me?
EL34's sound great, but I personally prefer the sound of 6L6's in this amp.