For us that have been playing the game for a few years and knowing you could be yeeted into space from any elevator, and have since worn full armor and space suits 24/7 because of this constant threat, i dont think lack of o2 in our ships will be that dangerous lol
Currently I have no real attachment to my ship. Repair is just a button press. I can claim it far too easily with no real repercussions. Looking after your ship like a car will feel more tangible so you nurture it and keep it running. it will also mean a lot of larger ships will become Hangar Queens as the cost and time of ownership will mean more. I am looking very much forward to this.
@@TheEPICskwock More like there's some bug constantly happening that screws us, for instance yesterday I stored my ship then logged off, and when i get back on it says I have to claim my ship.
It works already. I was softkilled 4 times above Klesher in CutlasS, every time ship fell on the ground I stayed alive. Didn't help much tho, because without functional map it is impossible to find any direction on foot.
All ships with component access on the outside should have the option to eject components from pilot or engineer station if needed. Or perhaps it's specific to certain ships.
@@ElroyJinkinsIV no, people hate vision because it drives innovation and sets new standards. Most game companies don't want to change or grow or make games that are more advanced. It's 2024, aren't you sick of playing games that look like they could have come out in 2015? The last game that really drove immersion was RDR2. Star Citizen is capable of doing just that, and it wouldn't have happened without Chris Roberts. Say what you want, the man is a creative, and he doesn't have anything holding back making his dream a reality. I'm all here for it
Just make it so size 3+ components need to be disassembled "on wing" prior to replacement. I do this for aircraft all the time, door 1 galleys need disassembly before removing and installation through the doors. Make size 3 components have to split into 3 parts that DO fit through doors. Make size 4 split into 5 parts or something. It's less a stretch of the imagination to do that vs slicing a hole in a pressure bulkhead at a normal repair station.
That's actually a good idea, it would compensate for bad ship design as ships like Carrack, etc. can't move components out of the engineering rooms because the components are too big and the doors are too small.
@@leevah i was thinking as well it would be another aspect of incentivizing crews to work together as 2 or 3 people moving a size 3 would simply be quicker than a single person, but a solo person *can* do it
@andrewchron yeah because splitting a component into 3 parts is SUPER difficult huh? The only reason something like that would delay SC to 2030 is the fact it was CIG was doing it
I'll believe it when I see it, considering how many ships would need a complete rework just to get that working. not to mention the massive level of bugs that are going to come with 4.0.
SALTEMIKE: The 890, Reclaimer, and other giant component ships are like ocean liners or other large vessels. They need dry dock and have to invariably tear up stuff to remove whole engines and the like. It's the mid size ships that will benefit the most from carrying replacements.
@@VortexStolenName Appreciate the comment, thank you. The large components on newer ship like the Hercules and Redeemer (its art design shows the Size 3 could go out the rear door of the component room some how) have room to move them. But Mike was right about some older ships having problems with getting Size 3 where they need to go.
24:15 - Perhaps components that are too big to be removed from the ship should be the ones with sub components that are the things that actually degrade so those smaller parts can be replaced. I think I remember them talking about doing sub components for the regular components, although I think they either dropped the idea or pushed it off when they realized how much extra stuff that would create. For the largest components only to have them makes sense though.
Okay so here's my issue with life support. Players always wear spacesuits unless they are eating. So always leaving your life support offline will save you from fire damage 100% of the time with basically no issues. To make life support a mechanic that changes the way ships function they have to make spacesuits have a much more limited amount of time they can sustain a player since right now they can last hours but bringing that down will make this something that has to be thought about whether it's going to be tedious or not.
It just depends on how much of a problem it is. If it takes me 10 hours of trading to make 100k credits, but now I have to tag 3 more hours for repairs that cost 50k credits but I didn't run into a single fight or hazardous environment. It's too much. I should be able to run my components for weeks without issue.
If it is a couple of minutes every 10 hours, ok. If it is like the food and drink, that I have to be jacking with maintenance every hour or two, F that.
Thinking about the size 3 plus components, it would be a good idea to have replaceable components of the components. So a size 3 power plant, may have a several core pods that happen to be the size of a size 1 component. You can yank one out and save your power plant from exploding or replace it with a new core.
I grew up with commercial fishermen and their industrial boats. 100% “size 3” components remind me of those engines. Tear up the deck and house of the ship to get into the engine room to replace it. Sure there are small parts we bring through doors. But it is totally realistic to have larger ships with integrated components that we can’t exchange in any place but an industrial hangar.
Sure in your daily driver, or outboard skiff, we can swap out components. Even some boats that have mounted internal engines have easy access to swap. But anything multi-crew (as a commercial fishing vessel) had a dedicated engineer who “keeps it running” with duct tape and wd40 u til they get into port.
Whoever have played The Sims, knows you have to make your creatures to work, to eat, sleep and clean. Some may consider that tedious but is a niche franchise with many players. SC players who have played a demo for years will face someday the reality to have had the opportunity to play for 12 years a game that wasn't "the game".
On size three ships.... Well I remember years ago when there weren't any physicalized components. Then I remember only the new medium ships had them. I came back from a break in 3.23 and discovered to my delight I found some on more ships. So getting fully physicalized components on a size three ship seems to be in the cards.
I would LOVE to never have to use the claim button unless something catastrophic happens. The problem is, right now, we have to use the claim button often due to things out of our control and squarely in the realm of 'game bug'
At some point being also able to repair components subcomponents by replacing them to recover the components full new state (or maybe even better if you get the right subcomponents, but also to worse if they arent quite right) would be awesome
i do like the idea of having to get through shields and armor with lasers then using penetrating ballistics to get at the inside. it also offers a talented flight engineer to communicate to the captain damage reports so captain can compensate accordingly. hopefully it pans out. my concerns with engineering they just demoed are 1) only able to access at engineering stations or copilot seats? and 2) engineering stations don't have seats (at least none im aware of) and i dont want my flight engineer to turn into a red stain on the wall because he was checking batteries and i boosted :|
I agree. I want a ship to be MY ship, and that's hard to do when recalling gives you an empty version 3D printed at the station you're in. While I know most may disagree, I wouldn't mind waiting some additional time at the ASOP if it was delivered with its contents intact. As it is, I have to have an adventure kit at every location where I can call up an empty ship. A ship with a regular crew has to empty their stuff out before every log off if you want to use the ship without flying across Stanton to get it.
This could also be the reason for some of the ship updates. Some ships went from S3 to multiple S2 and this is probably the real reason - so they could be repaired or replaced without having to return to base.
This was described at citizencon the intention is to spread the components around the ship so that if a section of ship goes offline the ship can still be in in a fight. In the future, if the ship gets cut in half and one side still has powered components, you could technically survive on that half of the ship until Rescue. If you have turrets or anything, you might still be able to use them
@@frogger2011ify There is no ROI for them to rework hundreds of ships. They will patch the old ones up as you say and release new ones. Oh look new shiny toy...Nobody sticks with old shit.
I kept my C1 alive for a week, and it didn't get dirty. Only time I see dirty ships is when they bug out on spawn Even those ships that are abandoned on outposts, no wear and tear for me; which may be a sync issue
I will say, this ISC on Engineering really shows how current implementation of things is just a stepping stone to something better. The MM with "Precision Targeting" makes sense now instead of just blindly firing rounds/lasers at something until it explodes. Edit to add: I watched ISC today before you put this out, but rewatching it here and seeing the response about the repair % limit.... I propose if you repair in place, there's a certain limit. If you remove and repair, that limit should be different as you get "access to more" of the component and can possibly do more repairs with the trade off of vulnerability/time. Oh, and where is my AMX-1 repair bot???
@@afternoondelight6322please if you know another project with these ambitions tell me.I have to follow this game cause i don't know any. (I don't like elite and nms Is fun but without these ambitions)
I think there's a limit on repair regardless of it being attached or not. What they said is you can have a spare that is 100%. But the damaged one needs a shop to repair above the limit.
Feels like I've been stuck on that stepping stone in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Can't wait for ships to be something we can really dedicate our time and become attached to.
So they abandoned tier 3 component repairs because they don't want to edit the Carrack and Reclaimer? 600i is already getting a rework, the 400i and Herc should already work. I hate how much tech debt they've put on these ships and now they won't go back and redo it. So lame.
I think I would fix the larger ship component issue by making the component it'self modular that you can get through a door. For instance a Size 3 powerplant as 2-3 parts that you can pull apart to remove them. the larger the component the more parts you would have to move but also the more parts that can be damaged/fixed.
I hope we get a toolkit that lets us repair components to atleast "flyable with only a small chance of fire" levels without needing salvage materials in a multitool. I dont wanna get completely stuck in space because I forgot to refill my multi Id like to be able to atleast limp a bit. probably give it a long action time so its not really viable in combat so that its only used once the threat is gone
My two takeaways from this ISC: (A) Thorsten's team are the best thing about CIG (B) This is going to be a genuinely unbelievable game when it releases just in time for my grandkids to play it.
Master modes came into the game and made it worse but has potential for the future. Physicalized cargo came into the game and made it worse but creates new potential in the future. There's no chance I'm trusting engineering will come into the game and not make 3.24 worse even if it opens up new potential in the future. Surprise me CIG. Please! But I have essentially ZERO faith most people are going to look at engineering and think "oh wow that's cool". It will absolutely be tedious and annoying. It will absolutely be something that tries to force "multicrew gameplay" in a similar way the Scopious Antares, or the initial implementation of the Vulture boxes force "multicrew gameplay". ~~~~~~~~~~~ Power management might be interesting but that's more like a tier 2 version of an existing feature not really what I'm talking about above.
The reason why size 3 components and larger cant be removed is the gamified version on what larger ships in the real world require. A complete drydock overhaul
My concern with regards armour, is that I'm hoping that it's localised to the location, not global for a given ship. Mind you, pirates will want to avoid ballistics around cargo bays if they want the cargo. They talked about premium fuel, sure... but then they spoke about that when the Starfarer was going to be making it by flying through gas clouds.
Yeah, seeing the armor as a component has me worried it's just going to be a flat HP value among the whole ship, rather than isolated values of armor based on the location on the hull. Hopefully this is just like, a T0 implementation and they make actual armor eventually instead of the arcade-style they seem to have shown.
@@infantryleadtheway8174 i really pray that it will but more area being open up in starcitzen means nothing to me. i want server mesh to 1k and ideally 2k to 5k so that they can start spewing out content but i know that will not happen
Master Modes is but one part of the recipe, engineering is another. I will wait until the batter is fully mixed and cooked to make a final judgment. Until then, I'll test and report on what I experienced.
These are HUGE gameplay changes, this is what we are waiting for. Just the simple venting the atmosphere and mixing with the planet composition (or space) is a game changer regardless of any engineering gameplay. Hopefuly we get venting due to damage aswell.
Regarding large components - since we can’t remove them, an alternative in my mind would be to have a specialized “career” for repairing them more completely than the base repair. For example, what if a size 3+ component is made up of subcomponents that CAN be replaced? Or if a specialized tool can more completely repair the large components at great cost - say maybe a Crucible can run a “resource hose”into the damaged ship to provide the required resources. This way you can’t bypass the need for a repair ship but you CAN still repair in deep space if required. Totally off the top of my head but they are ideas besides changing things to make size 3+ components removable that could partially solve the issues you brought up.
The lack of forethought in ship design is already apparent. Just look at the Freelancer MAX. 4 sleeping berths and ZERO ship inventory/storage. (Not to mention the only way into the midship cargo area is through one of two small, human sized doors)
Those will be replaced with newer versions or much like teh Hornets Mk2 variants. People moan now but once a new shiny toy appears i.e. the Odyssey will easily replace the Carrack as CIG will change the concept design to suit and attract Carrack owners.
How do you work engineering with single seat fighters. Any component dies and leaves your ship there but non functional cab you claim the ship or do I need to get a lift to buy repair parts and return them to the ship for install.
After watching this about the fuel, I force us training local stations, dry really quickly, especially with large skill combat like these events that we’ve been running and it’s really gonna be necessary for fuel, refining, and fuel hauling to keep these engagements going. I have a feeling the first time they run an event with these mechanics in the events, kind of breakdown cause there’s not enough fuel at the location, of course once the economies in place.
CIG is like the college student who is failing his class for most of the semester, but then suddenly he pulls an all nighter & slips the paper under the professor’s door at 6am…and it turns out the paper is actually pretty thoughtful & well written. Every time I’ve just about given up all hope on this project, they convince me to stick around. For better or worse, I don’t think I’ve had such an intense love-hate relationship with any other game I’ve played in my life.
If they wanted to allow size 3 parts to be removed and replaced manually. Just redesign the part not the ship. Divide bigger parts into sub pieces that slide together. Size 2 power plant is one solid part. Size 3 powerplant has 2 or 3 pieces that can be removed individually that make up the whole all of which are similar size to a size 2 par so it fits through doors ect.
I like Thorston, it always seems like his priority is making a fun game for others. Like that is what he cares about the most. I really enjoy engineering gameplay. If CIG creates and tailors it the right way, it will be its own game in and of itself. But only fun with crew mates. Pulsar: Lost Colony is mostly about engineering gameplay and it is a lot of fun to play with friends. It just depends on its implementation, the state it is in and players who stop whining about soloing large ships and enjoy the awesomeness of multi-crewing ships with others.
I want an "Auto Repair" ability-something like a robust module that deploys nanoparticles that, given enough resources, will work to repair your ship over time.
Need ship transport missions where other players take contracts (or fake it with NPCs if nobody takes it) to fly a ship from point A to point B. Player puts in the request and it gets put up as a generic request available to all. Fees involved increase based on distance, minimum rep to qualify, time constraints, cargo brought along, etc. Smaller ships could be transported in larger ships, larger ships would have to be flown themselves. Would need a public transport system of some sort so players themselves could then travel around to where needed without their own ships.
On the big ships, it'd be cool if they made the larger components have sub components that are the size of normal components and instead of having a inherent quality it's a cumulative quality. It could be that the sub components are components of smaller sizes or they could have specific "sub components" that are exclusive to the large components.
There probably will be a workshop where technicians can repair and/or replace Size 3+ components. Or they can abandon the idea or size 3 as an individual thing and make it a composite of multiple smaller size components wired together.
I have questions and problems with it. Questions : How long for the components to start decaying by themselves? How long until they can't be repaired? Because my problem is that we have no gameplay loop that requires us to stay for a long time in our ships (I mean a really long time) and Quantum fuel tanks don't allow that either (unless at some point we can store some of it to refill ourselves). So if the components decay too fast too, then multicrew ship gameplay won't matter. Because as we do today, we'll stop at a R&R every 15 minutes or so... What I'd really love is gameplay loops that require me to stay in the ship for multiple game sessions without leaving it. Otherwise beds are useless, toilets and showers are useless, food storage and cooking in ships is useless etc....
That's an excellent way of putting it. I don't hate master modes, I can see where it's going, I think it'll be good in the end, and I honestly trust Yogi to do a good job when given free reign. I do, however, hate how violently fucked every ship that's not a light-fighter, a Hornet, or a Drake got by MM with the promise that they'll be retuned Soon™. Just like Unique Item Recovery. Coming in 3.15.0.
While this episode aired, I only envisioned play on one ship currently in play. I am getting more and more attached to the Reclaimer as the one favorite to spend even idle time in.
Bigger ship should have an eject option for there components in my opinion. Like it will eject the component into space but you should still have to manually do it at the component.
My suggestion is that size 5 and larger components should not be removable, but instead consist of smaller, modular parts that can be individually replaced or repaired. Since these components are so large, they essentially become subcomponents, making repairs on larger ships more complex and involved. Just a thought.
Bro I hope we get it where you can work an org hangar, stripping broken weapons off the ships limping in, replacing them with fresh weapons, and throwing the broken one into either a recycler or a repair bench for a trip to the discount weapons pile after.
I was hoping that you could haul wrecks back to your own base or something and have a player run scrap yard out in the boonies, but not being able to tow ships into quantum kinda ruins that. Plus basically every planet has a station orbiting it giving no reason for player bases to have any interaction with other players past being an object to shoot at. For a game about immersion and immersive gameplay they sure know how to force everyone to not ever have to interact with other players.
@@mhmm4840other systems like pyro won’t have stations at every planet. Stanton has no boonies, it’s a developed system, others will be more desolate, providing need for play bases.
@@mhmm4840 aren’t the stations in pyro faction based, so you can’t use some of them unless you have the relevant faction rep? If not pyro then Nyx surely fits.
This game's never going to be finished. I've been watching these kinds of videos for 4 years now. Thinking these things would wrap up this some kind of finished game in the next few years
Defined finished? 😂it “upgrades” every 3-9 months. If you mean 1.0 watch Citcon in 29 days as of this response. They will at least for the first time ever say what the “released” game will be since the first kickstarter.
@@LeftJoystick What kind of stupid white knight reply is this? I did not attack the game. I am telling you right now... they will add Pyro and it will be the same game same bugs and just bigger but still depending on tick rate. I was 100% behind this thing for 3 years. This last year has just felt like bleh. To me and alot of other people I know. I just don't see a full MMO experience in anything less than 2 year minimum and that is sad. 10 years is a long fkn time to wait for this game. There are people in this chat that were like 8 years old when it started. Of course it is never finished but I jsut mean fleshed out with some actual progression and MMO/RPG element that makes sense.
Engineering... Much like the tractor Mech... The engineering tool box will be on the pledge store for 6 months for $35. So if you want to fix your ship, better pay up!
25:04 Han on! there is a super easy solution to this! all you need to do have have a large and capital components patch kit! It could be more expensive than the cost of a replacement (as is often the case these days in real life) and it only takes up the same amount of space as say a medium component as far as storing it goes, but when you use it on a large or capital component it fully fixes it as though it were replaced.
They could split the large components in half and they could be re-assembled inside the location to allow them to be transported through the ship. I think that would be the most effective, least amount of work they'd have to do.
How cool would it be if the game saved the ship degrading state through hangar visits. Add something like a "Ship Wash" option to the ship service tab of the ATC (also a good aUEC drain) and everytime we get out the ship we get reminded on how much it went through.
Okay, I dont want it to be like Star Trucker, where if you keep getting your parts damaged, you have to constantly go down and buy these components. 1) Its going to be costly because what money we get from contracts is not going to cover the costs of these components. 2) There will be alot of ships in space, because rather than buying these components, people can just backspace and claim back their ships. Not alot of people salvage CMs because the pricing is peanuts.
When I claim my ship, after being killed outside my ship (in a bunker or by a bounty hunter) I hope the claimed ship is “the same ship” age and damage included; like a raft towed it back to the station. Not a brand new ship. Insurance could cover the cost of Bri going it back up to 100%. No new ships
Hey man, havent watched your twitch stream for a long time, had to take a break away from gaming in general and especially SC 😅. Planning to be there for tomorrows stream 😄👍
I honestly don't know how they plan to have installable drives and coolers for the larger ships considering I doubt you could fit it through the narrow doors I'm guessing upgrade for ships like the carrack will still be done through the mobiglass unless they plan to increase doorways and corridors to their engine room which might mean a full interior and exterior redesign they'd have to or fully physicalised engine installation for the carrack and ships like it just wouldn't be possible it's larger than a constellation's double door, i'm thinking hidden elevator panel underneath where the parts come straight down out of it's slot on a rail and then you pull it out with the Atlas logistically is the best way to do it without having a major redesign! also I see a future if we are self repairing our ships instead of claiming new ones we might be buying a car wash or repaint at stations instead!
For my understanding, that means, that if the shield and armor are down... ballistics can basically shoot through the shiparmor/hull to damage components... Does this mean that you can take out the pilot without damaging the ship if you fire at the Cockpit? 😮
Did I misunderstood, the C2s components can't be swapped out, only repaired? ;-) Ah, OSHA should require fire suppression systems on these ships. ;-D At 35:20; That's not the TARDIS.
Will the pilot be notified of being locked out of engineering or if tampering is done? say someone sneaks on and kills all components via the engineering console then the pilot is left dead in the water... I'm curious how they will address this, maybe like a personal override code?
Opening a door in space, will reduce your o2 but it would not drop the temperature, if anything it would actually increase it, if it dropped, it certainly would not be THAT fast
So if a hull c can't replace a component, and that component also can't be repaired back up to 100%... Then the second a hull c takes damage. You may as well just claim it because it's never going to be any better than it was when you got it stock. It can only get worse. And yeah the second combat starts life support gets turned off all the rooms get vented to assuage fire dangers, and everyone throws on their own life support. I'd even cut gravity if that's possible.
Replacing tier 3+ components will probably take place in some form of shipyard. You can change the batterie of a car relativly easy by hand, but changing the batteries of a military submarine? Well, you have to cut it open and rip them out. It would be nice to have different sized shipyards as well, like if you want to repair something like a polaris, you cant just stop by at your local gas station, but if you are in a small ship, you can get some form of repairs on any junkyard out here.
@@pxkqd no, the issue brought up in the video was that there's no way to physically remove them. Not that it was unfeasible. Are you saying they're going to keep the interface for larger ships only or both large and small ships?
Engineering sounds great if they make it unnoticeable unless someone sabotages your components or you are going over spec or you survived through fight or in case of large ships you are in fight for long enough (and long is crucial cause you don't need engineers running during battle if they won't have enough time to get there (sea of thieves does good job there) Ah yes and environmental things like pyro flare or being close to sun, small meteorites or whatever.
For us that have been playing the game for a few years and knowing you could be yeeted into space from any elevator, and have since worn full armor and space suits 24/7 because of this constant threat, i dont think lack of o2 in our ships will be that dangerous lol
true lol
100%, but heat/cold could be an issue.
🤣 yes
@@a.j.9722 I have that armor that you are buying at refinery with 220C support so heat will not be a problem xD
Haha
Every patch, i try to go as long as possible with a single ship. My longest was almost 2 months. I CANNOT wait to be able to keep my ship for longer.
Currently I have no real attachment to my ship. Repair is just a button press. I can claim it far too easily with no real repercussions. Looking after your ship like a car will feel more tangible so you nurture it and keep it running. it will also mean a lot of larger ships will become Hangar Queens as the cost and time of ownership will mean more. I am looking very much forward to this.
3.22 I bet, I had a reclaimer I only lost once, both of them was full of decoration
I hate having to claim a ship. I want to be able to live on my ship and use the same ship for everything.
But that's the idea, but at the current moment, we die all the time, so it doesn't work for now
What do you suggest? Make your ship invincible?
@@TheEPICskwock More like there's some bug constantly happening that screws us, for instance yesterday I stored my ship then logged off, and when i get back on it says I have to claim my ship.
@@TheEPICskwock i think he means teh exploding and dying frequently. untill ships just break and stop going boom, we cant even get a tow to port atm
@@alexanderdooley5833 yeah I realized that later on and now I feel stupid lol
Crash landings being something you can survive will be interesting.
Glad I'll be able to say "another happy landing"
I really hope this is what we get
More changes to get stranded with your ship damaged, low on life support. It's a fun survival gameplay.
It works already. I was softkilled 4 times above Klesher in CutlasS, every time ship fell on the ground I stayed alive. Didn't help much tho, because without functional map it is impossible to find any direction on foot.
@@alexpetrov8871 but you still can put up a transport beacon to have someone picking you up no?
All ships with component access on the outside should have the option to eject components from pilot or engineer station if needed. Or perhaps it's specific to certain ships.
Eve was designed in 18 mo with minimal changes over the years. Eve had a game designer. CIG has a game tinkerer in Roberts.
Look at Chris’s other projects. He is always fired for his “vision” and inability to deliver.
@@ElroyJinkinsIV no, people hate vision because it drives innovation and sets new standards. Most game companies don't want to change or grow or make games that are more advanced. It's 2024, aren't you sick of playing games that look like they could have come out in 2015? The last game that really drove immersion was RDR2. Star Citizen is capable of doing just that, and it wouldn't have happened without Chris Roberts. Say what you want, the man is a creative, and he doesn't have anything holding back making his dream a reality. I'm all here for it
Just make it so size 3+ components need to be disassembled "on wing" prior to replacement.
I do this for aircraft all the time, door 1 galleys need disassembly before removing and installation through the doors.
Make size 3 components have to split into 3 parts that DO fit through doors. Make size 4 split into 5 parts or something.
It's less a stretch of the imagination to do that vs slicing a hole in a pressure bulkhead at a normal repair station.
Was just going to suggest this
That's actually a good idea, it would compensate for bad ship design as ships like Carrack, etc. can't move components out of the engineering rooms because the components are too big and the doors are too small.
@@leevah i was thinking as well it would be another aspect of incentivizing crews to work together as 2 or 3 people moving a size 3 would simply be quicker than a single person, but a solo person *can* do it
yeah do that , the game is gonna release in 2030 with all your scope creep
@andrewchron yeah because splitting a component into 3 parts is SUPER difficult huh?
The only reason something like that would delay SC to 2030 is the fact it was CIG was doing it
I'll believe it when I see it, considering how many ships would need a complete rework just to get that working. not to mention the massive level of bugs that are going to come with 4.0.
Lmao I had that same pfp as my TikTok pfp for a min. Threw me off 😂
@@kitimwold1316 I am he
As you are he
As you are me
And we are all together
If they are aiming for 4.0, then surely the conversion already begun some time ago. That would be my guess at least
@@Silverhawk-u2f yeah, But knowing CIG they haven't touched them at all.
SALTEMIKE: The 890, Reclaimer, and other giant component ships are like ocean liners or other large vessels. They need dry dock and have to invariably tear up stuff to remove whole engines and the like. It's the mid size ships that will benefit the most from carrying replacements.
Thanks for mentioning this, this actually makes a lot of sense! Good way of looking at it.
@@VortexStolenName Appreciate the comment, thank you. The large components on newer ship like the Hercules and Redeemer (its art design shows the Size 3 could go out the rear door of the component room some how) have room to move them. But Mike was right about some older ships having problems with getting Size 3 where they need to go.
24:15 - Perhaps components that are too big to be removed from the ship should be the ones with sub components that are the things that actually degrade so those smaller parts can be replaced. I think I remember them talking about doing sub components for the regular components, although I think they either dropped the idea or pushed it off when they realized how much extra stuff that would create. For the largest components only to have them makes sense though.
Okay so here's my issue with life support. Players always wear spacesuits unless they are eating. So always leaving your life support offline will save you from fire damage 100% of the time with basically no issues. To make life support a mechanic that changes the way ships function they have to make spacesuits have a much more limited amount of time they can sustain a player since right now they can last hours but bringing that down will make this something that has to be thought about whether it's going to be tedious or not.
They are going to restrict which suits you can wear while sitting in the pilot seat. That’s why there are armor and weapon cubbies on the ships
Usually they last hours irl, no thanks
It just depends on how much of a problem it is. If it takes me 10 hours of trading to make 100k credits, but now I have to tag 3 more hours for repairs that cost 50k credits but I didn't run into a single fight or hazardous environment. It's too much. I should be able to run my components for weeks without issue.
If it is a couple of minutes every 10 hours, ok.
If it is like the food and drink, that I have to be jacking with maintenance every hour or two, F that.
You will be able to buy a maintenance drone that repairs your ship on the fly, just 89 Dollars in the store, paints are extra, of course. 😉
Thinking about the size 3 plus components, it would be a good idea to have replaceable components of the components. So a size 3 power plant, may have a several core pods that happen to be the size of a size 1 component. You can yank one out and save your power plant from exploding or replace it with a new core.
I grew up with commercial fishermen and their industrial boats. 100% “size 3” components remind me of those engines. Tear up the deck and house of the ship to get into the engine room to replace it. Sure there are small parts we bring through doors. But it is totally realistic to have larger ships with integrated components that we can’t exchange in any place but an industrial hangar.
Sure in your daily driver, or outboard skiff, we can swap out components. Even some boats that have mounted internal engines have easy access to swap. But anything multi-crew (as a commercial fishing vessel) had a dedicated engineer who “keeps it running” with duct tape and wd40 u til they get into port.
I cant wait for the forum posts about this when it hits live
Whoever have played The Sims, knows you have to make your creatures to work, to eat, sleep and clean. Some may consider that tedious but is a niche franchise with many players. SC players who have played a demo for years will face someday the reality to have had the opportunity to play for 12 years a game that wasn't "the game".
On size three ships.... Well I remember years ago when there weren't any physicalized components. Then I remember only the new medium ships had them. I came back from a break in 3.23 and discovered to my delight I found some on more ships. So getting fully physicalized components on a size three ship seems to be in the cards.
I was so looking foward to your reaction at the "beyond 4.0"😂
I would LOVE to never have to use the claim button unless something catastrophic happens. The problem is, right now, we have to use the claim button often due to things out of our control and squarely in the realm of 'game bug'
WARNING: Shaved Jared
I love the idea of being able to intwith all these systems I juat don't want to be forced to on a day to day basis.
Hey Mike, I'm a long time SC supporter and just wanted to say thank you for the content. Keep up the good work 👍
At some point being also able to repair components subcomponents by replacing them to recover the components full new state (or maybe even better if you get the right subcomponents, but also to worse if they arent quite right) would be awesome
i do like the idea of having to get through shields and armor with lasers then using penetrating ballistics to get at the inside. it also offers a talented flight engineer to communicate to the captain damage reports so captain can compensate accordingly. hopefully it pans out. my concerns with engineering they just demoed are 1) only able to access at engineering stations or copilot seats? and 2) engineering stations don't have seats (at least none im aware of) and i dont want my flight engineer to turn into a red stain on the wall because he was checking batteries and i boosted :|
I feel vindicated. 😂😂
Whats up Hav0k
"just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
@@Sparkk0 Hey, Spark! Hope all is well and that we see you back in the verse when the good stuff drops 😃
I agree. I want a ship to be MY ship, and that's hard to do when recalling gives you an empty version 3D printed at the station you're in. While I know most may disagree, I wouldn't mind waiting some additional time at the ASOP if it was delivered with its contents intact. As it is, I have to have an adventure kit at every location where I can call up an empty ship. A ship with a regular crew has to empty their stuff out before every log off if you want to use the ship without flying across Stanton to get it.
This could also be the reason for some of the ship updates. Some ships went from S3 to multiple S2 and this is probably the real reason - so they could be repaired or replaced without having to return to base.
This was described at citizencon the intention is to spread the components around the ship so that if a section of ship goes offline the ship can still be in in a fight. In the future, if the ship gets cut in half and one side still has powered components, you could technically survive on that half of the ship until Rescue. If you have turrets or anything, you might still be able to use them
Ya but they are not gonna gold standard anything. We are gonna get add hock fixes and mark 2s mark my words
@@frogger2011ify There is no ROI for them to rework hundreds of ships. They will patch the old ones up as you say and release new ones. Oh look new shiny toy...Nobody sticks with old shit.
I kept my C1 alive for a week, and it didn't get dirty.
Only time I see dirty ships is when they bug out on spawn
Even those ships that are abandoned on outposts, no wear and tear for me; which may be a sync issue
Spoiler Alert: The test was pretty solid
I will say, this ISC on Engineering really shows how current implementation of things is just a stepping stone to something better. The MM with "Precision Targeting" makes sense now instead of just blindly firing rounds/lasers at something until it explodes.
Edit to add: I watched ISC today before you put this out, but rewatching it here and seeing the response about the repair % limit.... I propose if you repair in place, there's a certain limit. If you remove and repair, that limit should be different as you get "access to more" of the component and can possibly do more repairs with the trade off of vulnerability/time.
Oh, and where is my AMX-1 repair bot???
Stepping stones after 12 years, you people are goofballs.
@@afternoondelight6322please if you know another project with these ambitions tell me.I have to follow this game cause i don't know any. (I don't like elite and nms Is fun but without these ambitions)
I think there's a limit on repair regardless of it being attached or not. What they said is you can have a spare that is 100%. But the damaged one needs a shop to repair above the limit.
Feels like I've been stuck on that stepping stone in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. Can't wait for ships to be something we can really dedicate our time and become attached to.
@@afternoondelight6322 So it's not possible to come back after messing up and making development mistakes? Okay
Powerplant reaches zero health, time to eject the warp core!
It would be really cool if they had a key bind to eject the power plant before it goes critical.
So they abandoned tier 3 component repairs because they don't want to edit the Carrack and Reclaimer? 600i is already getting a rework, the 400i and Herc should already work. I hate how much tech debt they've put on these ships and now they won't go back and redo it. So lame.
I think I would fix the larger ship component issue by making the component it'self modular that you can get through a door. For instance a Size 3 powerplant as 2-3 parts that you can pull apart to remove them. the larger the component the more parts you would have to move but also the more parts that can be damaged/fixed.
I hope we get a toolkit that lets us repair components to atleast "flyable with only a small chance of fire" levels without needing salvage materials in a multitool. I dont wanna get completely stuck in space because I forgot to refill my multi Id like to be able to atleast limp a bit. probably give it a long action time so its not really viable in combat so that its only used once the threat is gone
My two takeaways from this ISC: (A) Thorsten's team are the best thing about CIG (B) This is going to be a genuinely unbelievable game when it releases just in time for my grandkids to play it.
Don't forget to put the account in the last will. 👍
Im assuming we will be able to keybind presets so we can quickly swap between them in single seater ships, as opposed to the power triangle
Honestly I've never heard a more french accent than the dude in the red shirt
Master modes came into the game and made it worse but has potential for the future. Physicalized cargo came into the game and made it worse but creates new potential in the future. There's no chance I'm trusting engineering will come into the game and not make 3.24 worse even if it opens up new potential in the future.
Surprise me CIG. Please! But I have essentially ZERO faith most people are going to look at engineering and think "oh wow that's cool". It will absolutely be tedious and annoying. It will absolutely be something that tries to force "multicrew gameplay" in a similar way the Scopious Antares, or the initial implementation of the Vulture boxes force "multicrew gameplay".
~~~~~~~~~~~
Power management might be interesting but that's more like a tier 2 version of an existing feature not really what I'm talking about above.
The reason why size 3 components and larger cant be removed is the gamified version on what larger ships in the real world require. A complete drydock overhaul
My concern with regards armour, is that I'm hoping that it's localised to the location, not global for a given ship. Mind you, pirates will want to avoid ballistics around cargo bays if they want the cargo.
They talked about premium fuel, sure... but then they spoke about that when the Starfarer was going to be making it by flying through gas clouds.
Yea, the Starfarer was supposed to be gathering gasses and fuel by diving into gas giants.
Yeah, seeing the armor as a component has me worried it's just going to be a flat HP value among the whole ship, rather than isolated values of armor based on the location on the hull. Hopefully this is just like, a T0 implementation and they make actual armor eventually instead of the arcade-style they seem to have shown.
i got a feeling this citizen con will be a disappointment
You're nuts. Citizencon is going to be super hype.
After the mesh test, i think itll be just fine
@@infantryleadtheway8174 i really pray that it will but more area being open up in starcitzen means nothing to me. i want server mesh to 1k and ideally 2k to 5k so that they can start spewing out content but i know that will not happen
Master Modes is but one part of the recipe, engineering is another. I will wait until the batter is fully mixed and cooked to make a final judgment. Until then, I'll test and report on what I experienced.
These are HUGE gameplay changes, this is what we are waiting for. Just the simple venting the atmosphere and mixing with the planet composition (or space) is a game changer regardless of any engineering gameplay. Hopefuly we get venting due to damage aswell.
"lot of people hate the idea of engineering"
Hey ! That's me.
Regarding large components - since we can’t remove them, an alternative in my mind would be to have a specialized “career” for repairing them more completely than the base repair.
For example, what if a size 3+ component is made up of subcomponents that CAN be replaced? Or if a specialized tool can more completely repair the large components at great cost - say maybe a Crucible can run a “resource hose”into the damaged ship to provide the required resources. This way you can’t bypass the need for a repair ship but you CAN still repair in deep space if required.
Totally off the top of my head but they are ideas besides changing things to make size 3+ components removable that could partially solve the issues you brought up.
The lack of forethought in ship design is already apparent. Just look at the Freelancer MAX. 4 sleeping berths and ZERO ship inventory/storage. (Not to mention the only way into the midship cargo area is through one of two small, human sized doors)
Those will be replaced with newer versions or much like teh Hornets Mk2 variants. People moan now but once a new shiny toy appears i.e. the Odyssey will easily replace the Carrack as CIG will change the concept design to suit and attract Carrack owners.
Is your solution to just buy more stuff from them?
How do you work engineering with single seat fighters. Any component dies and leaves your ship there but non functional cab you claim the ship or do I need to get a lift to buy repair parts and return them to the ship for install.
It says a lot when Thorston jumps on Mikes channel to see his and the chats reactions when he knows they are going to watch it . 😂
After watching this about the fuel, I force us training local stations, dry really quickly, especially with large skill combat like these events that we’ve been running and it’s really gonna be necessary for fuel, refining, and fuel hauling to keep these engagements going. I have a feeling the first time they run an event with these mechanics in the events, kind of breakdown cause there’s not enough fuel at the location, of course once the economies in place.
CIG is like the college student who is failing his class for most of the semester, but then suddenly he pulls an all nighter & slips the paper under the professor’s door at 6am…and it turns out the paper is actually pretty thoughtful & well written.
Every time I’ve just about given up all hope on this project, they convince me to stick around. For better or worse, I don’t think I’ve had such an intense love-hate relationship with any other game I’ve played in my life.
They lie. You buy.
If they wanted to allow size 3 parts to be removed and replaced manually. Just redesign the part not the ship.
Divide bigger parts into sub pieces that slide together. Size 2 power plant is one solid part.
Size 3 powerplant has 2 or 3 pieces that can be removed individually that make up the whole all of which are similar size to a size 2 par so it fits through doors ect.
Happy to see them finally mention armor. Combat won't be the same when it hits and that makes me happy. It will change multicrew a ton
Yo Mike! 😂😂 You got me real good with that ending that was pure gold hahaha get me that hopium tank as well friend
I like Thorston, it always seems like his priority is making a fun game for others. Like that is what he cares about the most.
I really enjoy engineering gameplay. If CIG creates and tailors it the right way, it will be its own game in and of itself. But only fun with crew mates. Pulsar: Lost Colony is mostly about engineering gameplay and it is a lot of fun to play with friends.
It just depends on its implementation, the state it is in and players who stop whining about soloing large ships and enjoy the awesomeness of multi-crewing ships with others.
I want an "Auto Repair" ability-something like a robust module that deploys nanoparticles that, given enough resources, will work to repair your ship over time.
I just can't get over how good those MFDs look, no more blinding green cutlass where you can barely see out of the ship in dark areas
Need ship transport missions where other players take contracts (or fake it with NPCs if nobody takes it) to fly a ship from point A to point B. Player puts in the request and it gets put up as a generic request available to all. Fees involved increase based on distance, minimum rep to qualify, time constraints, cargo brought along, etc.
Smaller ships could be transported in larger ships, larger ships would have to be flown themselves. Would need a public transport system of some sort so players themselves could then travel around to where needed without their own ships.
On the big ships, it'd be cool if they made the larger components have sub components that are the size of normal components and instead of having a inherent quality it's a cumulative quality. It could be that the sub components are components of smaller sizes or they could have specific "sub components" that are exclusive to the large components.
This kind of in depth damage system is the revolution we need honestly.
There probably will be a workshop where technicians can repair and/or replace Size 3+ components.
Or they can abandon the idea or size 3 as an individual thing and make it a composite of multiple smaller size components wired together.
you son of a gun..... all im going to hear when my ship is critical is "HELLO CRITICAL FAILURE OVER HERE" lmao
I have questions and problems with it. Questions : How long for the components to start decaying by themselves? How long until they can't be repaired?
Because my problem is that we have no gameplay loop that requires us to stay for a long time in our ships (I mean a really long time) and Quantum fuel tanks don't allow that either (unless at some point we can store some of it to refill ourselves). So if the components decay too fast too, then multicrew ship gameplay won't matter. Because as we do today, we'll stop at a R&R every 15 minutes or so...
What I'd really love is gameplay loops that require me to stay in the ship for multiple game sessions without leaving it. Otherwise beds are useless, toilets and showers are useless, food storage and cooking in ships is useless etc....
That's an excellent way of putting it. I don't hate master modes, I can see where it's going, I think it'll be good in the end, and I honestly trust Yogi to do a good job when given free reign. I do, however, hate how violently fucked every ship that's not a light-fighter, a Hornet, or a Drake got by MM with the promise that they'll be retuned Soon™. Just like Unique Item Recovery. Coming in 3.15.0.
i agree having a unified AI like system that constantly alerts you around your ship
While this episode aired, I only envisioned play on one ship currently in play. I am getting more and more attached to the Reclaimer as the one favorite to spend even idle time in.
You're gonna have to hire crew post 4.0, soloing anything multi crew is going to be very tough
Bigger ship should have an eject option for there components in my opinion. Like it will eject the component into space but you should still have to manually do it at the component.
My suggestion is that size 5 and larger components should not be removable, but instead consist of smaller, modular parts that can be individually replaced or repaired. Since these components are so large, they essentially become subcomponents, making repairs on larger ships more complex and involved.
Just a thought.
Bro I hope we get it where you can work an org hangar, stripping broken weapons off the ships limping in, replacing them with fresh weapons, and throwing the broken one into either a recycler or a repair bench for a trip to the discount weapons pile after.
I was hoping that you could haul wrecks back to your own base or something and have a player run scrap yard out in the boonies, but not being able to tow ships into quantum kinda ruins that. Plus basically every planet has a station orbiting it giving no reason for player bases to have any interaction with other players past being an object to shoot at. For a game about immersion and immersive gameplay they sure know how to force everyone to not ever have to interact with other players.
I thought the srv could pull ships into quant? @@mhmm4840
@@mhmm4840other systems like pyro won’t have stations at every planet. Stanton has no boonies, it’s a developed system, others will be more desolate, providing need for play bases.
@User-gx3sr Pyro has a stations all over tho. 26 to be exact. It's just as "populated" as staton without the cities
@@mhmm4840 aren’t the stations in pyro faction based, so you can’t use some of them unless you have the relevant faction rep? If not pyro then Nyx surely fits.
This game's never going to be finished. I've been watching these kinds of videos for 4 years now. Thinking these things would wrap up this some kind of finished game in the next few years
Defined finished? 😂it “upgrades” every 3-9 months. If you mean 1.0 watch Citcon in 29 days as of this response. They will at least for the first time ever say what the “released” game will be since the first kickstarter.
What a brave thought! Did you come up with that one yourself?
Star Citizen is never going to be finished, that's the selling point
@@LeftJoystick What kind of stupid white knight reply is this? I did not attack the game. I am telling you right now... they will add Pyro and it will be the same game same bugs and just bigger but still depending on tick rate. I was 100% behind this thing for 3 years. This last year has just felt like bleh. To me and alot of other people I know. I just don't see a full MMO experience in anything less than 2 year minimum and that is sad. 10 years is a long fkn time to wait for this game. There are people in this chat that were like 8 years old when it started. Of course it is never finished but I jsut mean fleshed out with some actual progression and MMO/RPG element that makes sense.
Engineering... Much like the tractor Mech... The engineering tool box will be on the pledge store for 6 months for $35. So if you want to fix your ship, better pay up!
25:04 Han on! there is a super easy solution to this! all you need to do have have a large and capital components patch kit! It could be more expensive than the cost of a replacement (as is often the case these days in real life) and it only takes up the same amount of space as say a medium component as far as storing it goes, but when you use it on a large or capital component it fully fixes it as though it were replaced.
They could split the large components in half and they could be re-assembled inside the location to allow them to be transported through the ship. I think that would be the most effective, least amount of work they'd have to do.
How cool would it be if the game saved the ship degrading state through hangar visits. Add something like a "Ship Wash" option to the ship service tab of the ATC (also a good aUEC drain) and everytime we get out the ship we get reminded on how much it went through.
Okay, I dont want it to be like Star Trucker, where if you keep getting your parts damaged, you have to constantly go down and buy these components.
1) Its going to be costly because what money we get from contracts is not going to cover the costs of these components.
2) There will be alot of ships in space, because rather than buying these components, people can just backspace and claim back their ships. Not alot of people salvage CMs because the pricing is peanuts.
I hear "Armor" and as a Perseus Owner I cant help but salivate.
When I claim my ship, after being killed outside my ship (in a bunker or by a bounty hunter) I hope the claimed ship is “the same ship” age and damage included; like a raft towed it back to the station. Not a brand new ship. Insurance could cover the cost of Bri going it back up to 100%.
No new ships
"armor is coming" lol 14 years game in dev. 14 years after, armor is coming 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey man, havent watched your twitch stream for a long time, had to take a break away from gaming in general and especially SC 😅. Planning to be there for tomorrows stream 😄👍
I honestly don't know how they plan to have installable drives and coolers for the larger ships considering I doubt you could fit it through the narrow doors I'm guessing upgrade for ships like the carrack will still be done through the mobiglass unless they plan to increase doorways and corridors to their engine room which might mean a full interior and exterior redesign they'd have to or fully physicalised engine installation for the carrack and ships like it just wouldn't be possible it's larger than a constellation's double door, i'm thinking hidden elevator panel underneath where the parts come straight down out of it's slot on a rail and then you pull it out with the Atlas logistically is the best way to do it without having a major redesign! also I see a future if we are self repairing our ships instead of claiming new ones we might be buying a car wash or repaint at stations instead!
Epic Geordi Maneuver intensifies.
setting exclusive mode as a pilot should override exclusive mode from engineering station
For my understanding, that means, that if the shield and armor are down... ballistics can basically shoot through the shiparmor/hull to damage components... Does this mean that you can take out the pilot without damaging the ship if you fire at the Cockpit? 😮
People complain that this is a timesink, but your ship blowing up every time is the biggest timesink.
Exactly
24:10 replacing components could be possible with small doors if we could take big components apart into smaller ones
Thorsten is the the dev that doesn't talk for nothing, he always deliver good stuff and don't bullshit
honestly, i think elite dangerous will see a increase in players..
So many other games that are playable
@@younboyce7068 star citizen isn't one of them. it's barely a tech demo with 1k+ kindergarten devs clueless what to do.
@PsyObsy 100 percent I'll never play again with the ship combat
This looks to be a good framework. All good things here. Another step forward.
Torsten and his team - single handedly keeping the dream alive for me! ❤
Did I misunderstood, the C2s components can't be swapped out, only repaired? ;-)
Ah, OSHA should require fire suppression systems on these ships. ;-D
At 35:20; That's not the TARDIS.
Larger components could come in several pieces, to allow us to move them and put them back together
12:49 this is loading and unloading ships for me.
It’s also janky speed breaks and modes when travelling and fighting
Will the pilot be notified of being locked out of engineering or if tampering is done? say someone sneaks on and kills all components via the engineering console then the pilot is left dead in the water... I'm curious how they will address this, maybe like a personal override code?
A Capital class powerplant failure is EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!!!!
I like engineering. I despise the relay and fuses thing. It is idiotic busy work.
Opening a door in space, will reduce your o2 but it would not drop the temperature, if anything it would actually increase it, if it dropped, it certainly would not be THAT fast
I don't believe anything they say in their little marketing videos. Even when it's in the game, it's not, because it's usually broken.
So if a hull c can't replace a component, and that component also can't be repaired back up to 100%...
Then the second a hull c takes damage. You may as well just claim it because it's never going to be any better than it was when you got it stock. It can only get worse.
And yeah the second combat starts life support gets turned off all the rooms get vented to assuage fire dangers, and everyone throws on their own life support.
I'd even cut gravity if that's possible.
Replacing tier 3+ components will probably take place in some form of shipyard. You can change the batterie of a car relativly easy by hand, but changing the batteries of a military submarine? Well, you have to cut it open and rip them out. It would be nice to have different sized shipyards as well, like if you want to repair something like a polaris, you cant just stop by at your local gas station, but if you are in a small ship, you can get some form of repairs on any junkyard out here.
Pretty sure claiming won't be an option. You can swap them in appropriate places, just not on the fly like the 2-
@@pxkqd no, the issue brought up in the video was that there's no way to physically remove them. Not that it was unfeasible.
Are you saying they're going to keep the interface for larger ships only or both large and small ships?
How cool would it be to show off a ship you have been using for weeks, and showing off weld marks and repaired damage from a previous dogfight
Engineering sounds great if they make it unnoticeable unless someone sabotages your components or you are going over spec or you survived through fight or in case of large ships you are in fight for long enough (and long is crucial cause you don't need engineers running during battle if they won't have enough time to get there (sea of thieves does good job there)
Ah yes and environmental things like pyro flare or being close to sun, small meteorites or whatever.
Did you notice that in the Constellation the engineering terminal is not in one of the front seats? Which is already useless, did they miss that?
Good Video, amour should be a component. Imaging fewer claims on ships, go back and fix your wreck.