I'd say the counter-heresies are greater then equal because they are the truth (or at the very least closer to the truth) than heresies, which are falsehoods
I think most people who reject the theotokos do so because they assume phrases like “mother of God” or “God was born” mean something more than their literal definitions.
@@PL9050 They also just are averse to the idea of honoring her by accepting that title. It is a testament to their irrationality that they care more about what vibe a title gives them than its accuracy.
Reformed Baptist minister here. I just touched on this subject in my sermon Sunday. As a matter of fact I frequently refer to Mary as the mother of God and make it a point to reiterate the fact that Jesus is God
@@Audentior_Ito most baptist theology churches dont. And pentecostals and non denominations have a baptist theology. so literally most of protestants don't recite the creed.
As the Nestorian churches spread across the Middle East well before the founding of Islam, it would be more accurate to say that it was Islam that was influenced by Nestorianism.
The "angel" that mohammed saw in that cave was satan disguised as an angel to trick him into thinking he saw a divine figure. satan knew that the world would always hate him, so why not at least create a religion that diminishes Jesus' God-hood and points people away from him being dying on the cross for our sins.
Not really, it emerged out of Arabic religion and likely Ebionites, Jewish Christians from all the way back in the 1st century who believed Jesus was important but not God, like Muslims do today. Nestorians I don't think really influenced them that much besides like some Arab scholars translating stuff or smth
True, but it might be said that the modern day version of this herecy, as we see in MacArthur and others, could be a combination of Christianity and Islam, eventhough originally it was nestorianism that influenced Islam.
@zacdredge3859 this is because Muhammad got the concept of the trinity out of old sethian gnostic books he had access to. The sethian gnostic view of God was "invisible spirit, the Barbalo (Mary), christ" this was the sethian view of God some how Allah in the Quran says this is what Christians think of God. Very strange.
I was raised in a Mainline Prot denomination in which there was no requirement to believe that Jesus was God nor that the Bible was God's true word. Salvation was hardly a topic I ever require preached on. You walked forward to join the church, not to declare that you trusted Christ to get you to HEAVEN.
As a former Baptist now mainliner, it is shockingly stupid how allergic they are to creeds, confessions, orthodoxy, on the one hand, and arrogantly opinionated about worldliness and ethics on the other hand. Being uneducated in history, science and literature as well as philosophy and biology has not served the baptist churches at all.
You assume to much brother. I agree that the Baptist church needs to be more rational and theological but you far over generalize, there is a very few amount of baptists who are heretics. And our modern Cristian’s obsess to much over rationality and such, don’t get me wrong I love philosophy, theology, and physics, and I know a great deal on each of those topics but one thing that the mainlines could learn from baptists is to not sacrifice there rationality for spirituality but to instead have plenty of both,or to be enraptured by pride of there knowledge and instead let all that knowledge sink to there hearts, although heretics are extremely dangerous for salvation I would argue that the liberalism maintained in the main line Protestant churches are far just as if not more dangerous because it threatens where the Cristian will put there faith and doesn’t only endanger orthodox doctrine but practical living as well.
Baptist and someone who likes MacArthur here. I still think those quotes of MacArthur are taken out of context. You mentioned he was trying to avoid monophysitism (and much more than that he was addressing some weird IFB ideas about the blood), and about the theotokos he is addressing the use of the term to avoid Mariolatry (just like John Calvin did). I admit, those quotes taken all by themselves sound Nestorian and probably could have been said better. Redeemed Zoomer, if you had a big enough platform or knew some other way to reach out to him and ask him to clarify his statements, I am sure that he would. He was humble enough to do that with his view on Eternal Sonship. Back in the 80s he said that the title "Son" is something Jesus took on in the incarnation (though Jesus has always been eternally God), but in 2001 he corrected himself and said he was wrong and the title "Son" has been true of the 2nd Person from eternity past. Is MacArthur Nestorian today? Absolutely not. His book (Biblical Doctrine - 2017) affirms both the "Blood of God" and that Mary is "The Mother of God". There is also an entire section in the book on heretical Christological views which explicitly condemns Nestorianism. MacArthur is obviously not teaching Nestorianism today. With the tens of thousands of sermons he has preached over the decades, if you pointed out those 2 quotes to him today, I am sure he would clarify what he was saying. To end on a positive note. I love all your videos and that you care about the truth. I love your focus on being intellectual, theological, and historically rooted. One of my favorite verses on the communication of attributes besides Acts 20:28 is Rev. 1:17-18 where Jesus said He is the "first and the last" and "the living one", this is obviously true because He is the eternal living God. And then He says "I died"! How could God die? The only way that makes sense is the Chalcedonian definition. Jesus Christ (God) died for our sins and "behold I am alive forevermore"!
Agreed 100% I don't read or listen to MacArthur, but quote hunting is not what we as believers should do. We should look towards the countless sermons and printed materials to get a sense of their teaching.
@BasiliscBaz That's just outright slander. Where do Protestants not respect Mary and say that she isn't Jesus' Mother? We greatly respect her, after all, God chose her to be Jesus' Mother, that's an immense honor. We just don't pray to her for intercession, because we already have Jesus for that.
@@SockieTheSockPuppet Why do protestants parrot the same takes that have been debunked and aren't Biblical, Intercession is required of us as Christians. We are meant to pray for one another, why does that change for Saints in Heaven? Answer: It doesn't and Saints continue praying for Christians in Heaven, Including Mary.
Nestorianism is not a mixture of Christianity and Islam but one of the progenitors of Islam, those progenitors also including Arabic polytheism, Christian Ebionites and Jewish Exilarch influence.
My old liberal pastor did this, but also denied the resurrection, saying that Jesus was entirely separate from Christ, and that Christ replaced Jesus after the resurrection, meaning nobody conquered death. He also had all the various wokeisms we all know and ""love."" Needless to say, I'm glad to be out of there.
I don't like hating on protestants, specially because they are the majority of people risking their life to fight to end the slavery of our times which is abortion in America. But I hate when I see christians who are full of confidence on christianity with no reading, and having no understanding of what previous christians thought. THey just try to resignficate Christianity from scratch like Chrisitianity is a vage idea that anyone can shape to their own worldview. Please guys stop doing this, ask why the christians prior to you thought before making your own heretical theories.
actually the monk who taught Muhammad about Christianity was Nestorian (not Arian as St. John Damascene who writes about it calls him). And muhammad orignially claimed to be Christ at the second coming, because the title was a messianic aramaic title.
@@michaelg4919 Arabia was generally a place in which a lot of weird sects and Christian heretical groups were present in the 6th and 7th centuries. These people were the first "Christians" that Muhammad got into contact with. Many weird stories from gnostic apocryphal gospels like Mary giving birth under a palm tree or Jesus giving life to clay birds made it into the Quran.
We have a problem where so many of my fellow protestants are so scared to say Mary is the Mother of God not because they disagree with the meaning but because they disagree with the supposed connotations that mary is somehow the creator of God or something. But we cant be ambiguous with the essentials of the faith. If you believe, it confess it with your mouth.
An easy response to them is just “Your mother gave birth to you, but she didn’t create your eternal soul. Mary gave birth to Jesus, but she didn’t create His divine essence. Your mom is not the CREATOR of your soul, but she IS the mother of it. Mary did not CREATE the Son’s divine essence, but she IS His mother.”
So my question is that, is Mary the mother of Divinity? Or is there any biblical basis to call Mary the mother of God. These details are unexccessary distractions which I believe come from the devil order to divide us Christians. Not wanting to call Mary the mother of God does not necessarily mean that one supports Nestorianism. Can you give any explicit instance when MacArthur taught Nestorianism?
I confess with my mouth (and keyboard) that God is uncreated, has been, and shall always be, in His triune nature for all time, before Mary was conceived herself. God has no parents for he is uncreated & eternal in His entirety, including, of course God the Son, you can call this heresy if you want, but disagreement with it is blasphemy.
Mary is the mother of Jesus in his human nature. Since Jesus is one person with both divine and human natures, Mary is called "Mother of God" because the person she gave birth to is God the Son, not just a human being. She didn’t create his divine nature, but she gave birth to the person who is both God and man.
And this is more than enough to close the discussion. This is a stupid discussion that leads to heresy on both sides because you’re trying to go deeper than it is.
Yup. People knee jerk in the opposite direction because the normal human definition for "Mother of" (or "Father of") implies the mother or father caused the child to be what they are (simply human). In the case of Mary, even though she is His mother, she did not cause Him to be God. He was always God and always will be God.
I am glad you went on to explicitly distinguish your view from monophysitism. The first half of the video stated the Hypostatic Union but it was good that you clarified monophysitism as "the equal and opposite heresy that reacts to Nestorianism. One other note - Nestorianism predates Islam by a century and a half, so while the description of Nestorianism as mix between Christianity and Islam may be theologically valid, it is historically impossible.
He is anti-Catholic because he believes that Roman Catholicism defends many heresies, but he himself puts himself in the same situation. As RZ said, If it were the old lady from my Church saying this, I would understand (but I would correct her). But MacArthur should know better.
@@JoWilliams-ud4eu equal opposite reaction , under his eyes , I am Catholic- I can have a friendly discussion with Lutheran- Pentecostal, and Anglican. The ones that don’t have good arguments are team MacArthur and KJB only Protestants. Do you guys think Luther or Calvin would let Johny Mac preach at their churches, or the other way around/ would Johny Mac let the reformers preach. Johny Mac is a liar plane and simple- a lying heretic.
If baptist churches would do the bare minimum of reading the creeds then this wouldn't happen. I spent 20 years in a baptist/nondenom church and didn't know creeds and confessions even existed
Evangelicals need to stop calling themselves Protestant. At this point, they’re hijacking and ruining our label for no reason. They have zero connection to the Reformation. Let them come up with their own name for their new age beliefs, lol. If there’s an electric guitar on stage and “communion” involves eating a cracker once per month, it’s not a “church,” period. And it’s certainly not in any meaningful way “Protestant.”
Reading some of these comments is very concerning. With how some people are responding, it makes me think that from some Protestant point of views, there is no point of having heresies defined. As a Catholic, I’m glad that RZ is calling this out cause this is a huge problem.
Protestantism is an umbrella term. It refers to the different traditions that agree with the 5 soles. Some Protestants value the history and tradition of the church and others do not. Whenever I see someone comparing Protestantism with Catholicism, it gives me a warning, because the person is comparing a specific tradition "Roman Catholicism" with a category of different traditions.
Nestorianism is heresy that’s a given. But I think it’s just something people fall into because they’re allergic to any doctrine that sounds too “Catholic” to them
@@danshakuimoplop a modern evangelical into the Temple of Solomon and they would denounce it as demonic paganism. Evangelicals deny the necessity of sacrifice in adoration. Heresy is the end result.
As a Baptist, yes Mary IS the Mother of God. That was never a problem for baptist teology in history. When did John MacArthur became the representation of all Baptists? Would be a lot more usefull to talk about our creeds and confessions instead of popular heretic preachers.
People who follow someone like John MacArthur are not just going to hear someone say "thats heresy!" And immediately change their minds; very few people know how to access the writings of the fathers to read the formal rejections of heresy for themselves. YOU may not need 18 minutes. Good. This video isn't for you. Consider that there are people convinced of nestorianism who do need to be convinced. This video is for them.
Great video! I was incidentally thinking about Nestorianism this morning and boom here comes your video. Thanks for taking a deep dive into this heresy.
Here's how you can easily disprove Nestorianism using the Bible. In John 20:28 Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and My God". Now was Thomas talking to a person or a nature/essence? It makes no sense to say someone talks to a nature, we talk person to person, and the verse calls that specific person God. And logically, if that is the same person Mary gave brith to, Mary is the mother of God.
Thank you for this thorough explanation of something we Protestants need to be reminded of. The first time I taught the Chalcedonian Creed, calling Mary the Theotokos, someone said "That's Catholic." I said it sure is- small "c" catholic, as the Church mentioned in the Apostle's Creed! Keep up your valuable work of teaching Orthodoxy, Zoomer!
the problem with protestantism is that in order to validate their own protest they had to picture catholics as such an evil thing, often being called the anti-christ or Babylon, so each generation of protestants denounces the previous one of being still too-catholic. They just forget that in origin Martin Luther never wanted to create a new denomination, he wanted to keep being Catholic. Just look at Santa Claus, he was so deformed of his original character which was Saint Nicolas, by Brits trying to remove any Catholic reference in their culture, that today people have no idea he was a real man, and a important church father.
@@MarkStein-b5b Hello, Mark. It could be that there are different versions of the Apostles' Creed. The one I grew up reciting states "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints...." Catholic was small "c", meaning not Roman Catholic, but universal.
Perhaps the word that was missing from Jesus, Christ, God was the word SON! This makes things so much more clear. Mary is the mother of the Son but she is not the mother of the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Not to defend Nestorius or Machartur.
Two quick verses debunking Nestorianism if anyone doesn't think it's heretical: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." - Acts 20:28 "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" - Colossians 2:9
I prefer the orthodox take in this issue. Holy Theotokos, that being, the title of god-bearer is far more accurate description than mother of God while adding an extra layer of separation from more mundane births. There's also the linguistic connotation that to make holy also means to make separate.
Interesting note. I was recently reading Sinclair Ferguson’s book Devoted to God and he makes a very good point on the definition of holy. We cannot only define ‘holy’ as ‘to be separate from’ because God is holy-that is holiness is of His divine nature. And the implications of that is that God then requires something to be separate from to be God, which then disrupts his eternal aseity. So, a better definition of holy is ‘devoted to.’ God is perfectly devoted to Himself. Each Person is fully, intensely, and perfectly devoted to the other two Persons of the Trinity. Therefore, the implication of devotion is to be separate from. You cannot be devoted to your wife if you are with another woman. The implication of God being holy is that He must be separate from things that are outside His perfect and good character. I only add this because I thought it was interesting and cool to share. Also, I agree with your take on using Theotokos rather than mother of God. May the Lord bless you and may He keep you until the end of the age.
The Orthodox Church was together with the Catholic Church in the council of Efesos when they agreed that Mary is the Mother of God, Theotokos. To assume that the Orthodox have a different take than the council is a false doctrine. PS: If you claim this, by being protestant. You need to understand that Orthodox people pray to Mary too, just like other saints, they use icons in their prayers and they even pray For dead people too, they even think that the Bishop of Rome was the first of all the other bishops and so he has a special title. their biggest different is that they view this title as honorific, and without any supremacy over other bishops, while catholics think the Pope is the leader of all the bishops.
Seems like a low view of motherhood is the hangup, tbh. Holy Mary is the Mother of God. God was 1.) In her womb 2.) Birthed by her 3.) Suckled her breasts 4.) Had His head held up by her 5.) Raised by her. She's God's Mother.
It's not different, it's just more linguistically accurate in most languages to use Theotokos because it's known what you mean by it precisely. To use mother of god is less accurate even if same thing is meant because its a broader term in language.
Seeing as the JMaccabees broke away from the Southern Orthodox Independent Baptist Fellowship over not affirming the King James Bible as the only Bible (and yes, according to St. Ruckman of Pensacola, the corrector of the scriptures themselves), our Synod of Stripmall would be more than willing to take in Redeemed Zoomer, so long as he consents to the aesthetic of fluorescent lighting and lack of gay-affirming banners he swears don't matter to denominational integrity and orthodoxy.
Stunning that John Macarthur denies that God was ever born! See 10:59 . How does Macarthur think Jesus, who is God in the flesh, came to earth if He wasn't birthed by Mary? Wow - John Macarthur sounds crazy! Can't believe that so many people listen to him! Thanks for sharing those quotes RZ
You went from grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone for salvation to Grace through works as is the beliefs of the Orthodox church. Orthodoxy is apostate. I’m a convert out of Eastern Orthodoxy. Why do you think your works will save you?
@@MatthewFloorProtestant theology might look appealing on the surface, but it's foundational beliefs of sola scriptura and accordance with the faith of the apostles is untenable. As you came from EO, you should know that faith and works are not isolated, but work together.
A fruit tree is considered alive when it bears fruit. However the fruit isn't what made the tree alive.. FYI, being EO is what saves you according to classical EO. Therefore not even faith and works are sufficient in themselves...
Macarthur doesn't teach Nestorianism I don't know where you got that crazy idea from. I believe the blood comment was in the context of the Blood Controversy between him and Bob Jones Jr. Also I don't think it's incidental that you pulled a quote from so long ago. His theology has developed since his early years of ministry in part as a result of his friendship with RC Sproul. Within Macarthur's systematic theology he speaks against the error of Nestorianism so I don't think it is accurate to accuse him of it based on such little "evidence" cherry picked from over 50 years of ministry.
God experienced death, but His divine nature did not die. Additionally, in my opinion, the issue with the term "Mother of God" lies more in the word "mother" than the term "God." As a failure of language, at first glance, this seems to imply that Mary precedes God, and that at one time God did not exist. This is because humans do not exist before they are born, but God does. In fact, because flesh is created, there was a time when Jesus' human nature did not exist, hence "The Word became Flesh." It's easy to see where Nestorius is coming from, but to use the logical end of his line to condemn him is good, then could the same not be applied to the title "Mother of God?" The title can lead to idolatry, which most would agree is worse than just getting something wrong about the nature of Jesus.
Theotokos (which JMac takes issue with in these quotes) means God-bearer. That term does not imply preceding God. But it doesn't matter either way. John 3:16 calls Jesus begotten. That also implies he had a beginning, but he didn't. He was begotten of the father (a term exclusively reserved for father's contribution to reproduction), borne of Mary (a term reserved for the mother's contribution), conceived of the Holy Spirit. Begotten, not made. Son, with no beginning. Mary is his mother, not his predecessor.
That is a major heresy. Jesus was begotten specifically to be incarnated into a human body. The universe was created only for Him. God does not deal with time and Jesus has always had a human nature.
@@rothgang I am. But I'm also pointing out that JMac has taken issue with even clearer terms than "mother of God". That term is completely true, yet it's easy to distinguish why someone would be cautious about where it could lead. Theotokos, on the other hand, doesn't have this problem, and JMac still has a problem with that one too. It's definitely cause for concern, and he should certainly clarify explicitly if he's going to make these messages continue to be available to the public.
Redeemed Zoomer is low-key doing Catholic apologetics. Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for our Nestorian evangelical brothers and sisters that they may return to the true apostolic deposit of the Faith.
Catholic apologetics? Yes. Roman Catholic apologetics? Node. All the reformers agreed with Chalcedon and Lutheran, Reformed and Anglican churches subscribe to it. We, however, do not fall into the other errors affirmed by other Marian doctrines, especially that of the immaculate conception.
A duck walked up to a lemonade stand And then he said to the man runnin' the stand Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes? The man said, no, we just sell lemonade But it's cold, and it's fresh, and it's all home-made! Can I get you a glass? The duck said, I'll pass Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) 'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom) When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand And then he said to the man runnin' the stand Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes? The man said, no, like I said yesterday We just sell lemonade, okay? Why not give it a try? The duck said, good bye Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) 'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom) When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand And then he said to the man runnin' the stand Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes? The man said, look, this is gettin' old I mean, lemonade's all we've ever sold Why not give it a go? The duck said, how about no Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) 'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom) When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand And then he said to the man runnin' the stand Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes? The man said, that's it, if you don't stay away, duck I'll glue you to a tree and leave you there all day stuck! So don't get too close! The duck said, adios! Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) 'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom) When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand And then he said to the man runnin' the stand Hey (bam bam bam), got any glue? What, got any glue, no, why would I, ooh Then one more question for you Got any grapes? And the man just stopped Then he started to smile He started to laugh He laughed for a while He said, come on, duck Let's walk to the store I'll buy you some grapes So you don't have to ask anymore So they walked to the store And the man bought some grapes He gave one to the duck And the duck said, hmm, no thanks But you know what sounds good? It would make my day Do you think this store Do you think this store Do you think this store Has any lemonade? Then he waddled away (waddle waddle) Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, wadddle) Then he...
I try my best to give Johnny Mac leeway, but if we're calling the balls and strikes we have to be honest that he's not afraid to twist things to fit a narrative. MacArthur will literally misrepresent scripture to bash Catholics, and that is indefensible. This is the man who claimed that Jesus disowned Mary at the foot of the cross. That's a shockingly stupid take, or a blatant lie intended to bash Catholicism by discrediting the mother of Christ. I hope that he's just a poor scholar, otherwise he is a bad actor bearing false witness from the pulpit, and scripture has some pretty harsh warnings about that.
Yes, God was born into the world by Mary, a child can understand this. Any pastor should understand that God had to limit himself by becoming a man to be a sacrifice for our sins. God became man and was born of a virgin simple. If someone asked you the question 'Is Mary the mother of God'? You should always say for God to come to earth and be a sacrifice for our sins he had to be born into the world, and that's where Mary comes in, she was chosen.
Having a single point of contention is perhaps human and thus disregarding all sound literature for one mishap in doctrinal understanding is perhaps not the most wise thing to do.
There is a big problem among Protestantism such that they will subscribe to many heretical teachings in an effort to not “sound Catholic”. This issue with Nestorianism is exhibit A.
There’s a fine tradition in Christian theology, **derived from the Chalcedonian Creed itself** of distinguishing between the Persons of the Trinity, as well as between the divine and human natures of Jesus Christ the Son, without confusion, separation, or division. We *distinguish* between the natures of the Son while affirming the unity of those two natures in one Person-fully God and fully man. This is why many hesitate to call Mary the mother of God, because she isn’t the mother of God the Spirit or of God the Father, and even her claim as mother of God the Son is limited to the distinction between his human nature and divine nature. That is why the Creed itself affirms that she is “the mother of God, according to the manhood”.
@@justhair17yeah, my point wasn’t to defend MacArthur. I’m not a particular fan of his in any way. My goal was more to reinforce what RZ was saying but to clarify what the Chalcedonian Creed says for anyone still struggling with the phrase “mother of God” thanks to Catholic abuses of the doctrine. The Creed spells out the proper trinitarian theology that many folks might fear is under attack by using “Jesus” and “God” interchangeably.
@@MarkStein-b5b Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
MacArthur is inconsistent, but he’s not a heretic. Yes, Mary is the mother of God. MacArthur affirms the theology behind the statement, he just doesn’t affirm the statement. That is inconsistent, but he’s not a heretic
Given the timeframe wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Islam is a product of Nestorian beliefs rather than the other way around? This would also match with some other heresies that floated around modern Saudi arabia at the time of Mohammed and explain the multi chapter rants against the trinity where a Christian will slap their head and say "I agree that that concept of the trinity is wrong, but that is not what the trinity is!"
I know John said this but he doesn’t actually teach Nestorianism he is just anti catholic because of their false Gospel . John fully affirms the one divine person with two natures .
Silk comes from caterpillar cocoons.. caterpillars late in life becomes butterflies,it would be technically false to say "I'm wearing Butterfly cloth" 😅
That’s right! He restored the true Church after that fiend Chancellor Constantine mixed Christianity with the Dark side and created the w*ore of Oklahoma!
God could do as He pleases, if He wants to come down as divine man, God man, man God, burning bush. None of it should matter when it comes to the truth of faith, God came down through Mary and saved mankind from eternal separation. He could have generated Himself through a stone, but it was for us; the gift of understanding His ways and humbling us.
10:39 I have to say I'm glad people like you are making content like this but I have to ask why it would be wrong to say that the blood of Christ is divine blood if Jesus is divine and His blood is the blood of God. BTW I'm Orthodox so that's the lens that I'm looking at this through.
What he meant by saying that Jesus' Blood isn't divine is that It doesn't have a Divine Nature. But it is divine insofar you take divine to mean "of God", instead of "of God's Nature"
In the person of Jesus is the spirit of the infinite, uncreated and eternal, God indwelling the finite envelope of a created man. According to Leviticus 17:11-14 'the life of the body is in its blood' so therefore Jesus is uniquely able to absolve human sin through the power of His blood, which, is not of infinite quantity but is of limitless power. Thus He is our 'kinsman redeemer' in the Old Testament sense and, mercifully, He only requires our faith in his sacrifice in exchange for our personal redemption. Hallelujah!
I’m probably gonna wait a bit to watch this cus I definitely have some feelings about MacArthur I want to kinda have in check when watching this. But will be interesting to check out when I can.
Nestorius: "it is more accurate..." RZ: "Mary is not the mother of the divine nature" Mary *is* the "mother of God" but the reason that's not entirely accurate to just plainly state (especially if we're being as pedantic as you suggest we should be) is exactly as you said - God's divine nature did not originate from Mary (or anything, for that matter).
a mother doesn't give birth to a nature, she gives birth to a Person. Jesus is one Person with two Natures. He was always God, even in vitro. Mary gave birth to Christ who had both a human and divine nature. He didn't become divine at some random time after his birth.
I'm evangelical, but I never was a fan of John MacArthur. I haven't seen too many of his sermons, but the ones I've seen made me angry because he was clearly strawmanning those he disagreed with. It's very hard for me to listen to someone if they can't fairly present the arguments of those they disagree with before presenting their counter-arguments. That is one of the reasons I like this channel. I'm not a Calvinist or Reformed, but I want to hear the honest arguments from those I may disagree with. I want to learn about Calvinism and be able to articulate their arguments fairly. I've even learned some things I agree with and other things that have made me think. I still disagree with Calvinism but it helps me improve my perspective. I respect RZ because he does try his best to fairly represent those he disagrees with. Is he perfect? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. However, he always corrects himself when he realizes it.
"Protestant" is too broad a category to make any meaningful sense. Lutheran, Anglican, and Reformed are the traditions that are most in line with what the Reformers taught.
A lot of issues like this stem from language. We often to refer to God the Father as “God,” while also using the same word (God) to refer to both the Godhead and the divine nature of Jesus. It is accurate to describe all of these as God, but it is semantically confusing.
As a Baptist I would like to refute you. MacArthur is the Baptist Pope. According to his authority established on Peter’s seat, he is infallible
No but actually you’re right
Lol
John the Baptist's Seat, actually.
Was MacArthur speaking ex cathedra?
I love this thread😂😂😂
"For every heresy there is an equal and opposite counter-heresy." GREAT QUOTE
That is pretty funny coming from a Calvinist though.
I'd say the counter-heresies are greater then equal because they are the truth (or at the very least closer to the truth) than heresies, which are falsehoods
There's a difference between being created & being born. God wasn't created (he has always existed), but WAS born of the Virgin Mary.
I think most people who reject the theotokos do so because they assume phrases like “mother of God” or “God was born” mean something more than their literal definitions.
@@PL9050 They also just are averse to the idea of honoring her by accepting that title. It is a testament to their irrationality that they care more about what vibe a title gives them than its accuracy.
Amen
@@PL9050 when i hear people say those phrases it always has and is often used in a way to justify praying to mary
@@3boyzbutler389 praying to Mary to ask for her intercession is justified so what’s your point?
Reformed Baptist minister here. I just touched on this subject in my sermon Sunday. As a matter of fact I frequently refer to Mary as the mother of God and make it a point to reiterate the fact that Jesus is God
Doing God's work!
Not important, your minister title is good for trash if you worship “words” rather than truth
All churches should recite the Nicene creed as a mandatory step every single service/gathering.
It remains almost unfathomable to me that there are some churches which don't!
I am orthodox and appreciate RZ for this video and I appreciate you for affirming the creed. Not nearly enough churches recite it.
Amen
@@Audentior_Ito Because it would raise too many questions for those that don't
@@Audentior_Ito most baptist theology churches dont.
And pentecostals and non denominations have a baptist theology. so literally most of protestants don't recite the creed.
As the Nestorian churches spread across the Middle East well before the founding of Islam, it would be more accurate to say that it was Islam that was influenced by Nestorianism.
The "angel" that mohammed saw in that cave was satan disguised as an angel to trick him into thinking he saw a divine figure.
satan knew that the world would always hate him, so why not at least create a religion that diminishes Jesus' God-hood and points people away from him being dying on the cross for our sins.
Not really, it emerged out of Arabic religion and likely Ebionites, Jewish Christians from all the way back in the 1st century who believed Jesus was important but not God, like Muslims do today. Nestorians I don't think really influenced them that much besides like some Arab scholars translating stuff or smth
Then why did Mohammad have the misguided notion of Mary being part of the Trinity which is antithetical to Nestorian teaching?
True, but it might be said that the modern day version of this herecy, as we see in MacArthur and others, could be a combination of Christianity and Islam, eventhough originally it was nestorianism that influenced Islam.
@zacdredge3859 this is because Muhammad got the concept of the trinity out of old sethian gnostic books he had access to. The sethian gnostic view of God was "invisible spirit, the Barbalo (Mary), christ" this was the sethian view of God some how Allah in the Quran says this is what Christians think of God. Very strange.
You know it's serious when the video is longer than 10 minutes AND has no gameplay
Don't we all prefer this?
As a classical Protestant who was raised evangelical, it’s insane how deceived we were.
..And still are
I was raised in a Mainline Prot denomination in which there was no requirement to believe that Jesus was God nor that the Bible was God's true word. Salvation was hardly a topic I ever require preached on. You walked forward to join the church, not to declare that you trusted Christ to get you to HEAVEN.
@@lufknuht5960 Then your “mainline Protestant” church denied their own denomination’s confessions.
same here used to be oneness Pentecostal now Reformed Anglican. The way to hold scripture up in high regard is by good Tradition and Reason.
@@lufknuht5960I bet they never denied cash, checks or credit cards
As a former Baptist now mainliner, it is shockingly stupid how allergic they are to creeds, confessions, orthodoxy, on the one hand, and arrogantly opinionated about worldliness and ethics on the other hand. Being uneducated in history, science and literature as well as philosophy and biology has not served the baptist churches at all.
I was just saying this exact point to my husband! 😂
you can be a Baptist mainliner, RZ has admitted that the American Baptist Churches USA is mainline
You assume to much brother. I agree that the Baptist church needs to be more rational and theological but you far over generalize, there is a very few amount of baptists who are heretics. And our modern Cristian’s obsess to much over rationality and such, don’t get me wrong I love philosophy, theology, and physics, and I know a great deal on each of those topics but one thing that the mainlines could learn from baptists is to not sacrifice there rationality for spirituality but to instead have plenty of both,or to be enraptured by pride of there knowledge and instead let all that knowledge sink to there hearts, although heretics are extremely dangerous for salvation I would argue that the liberalism maintained in the main line Protestant churches are far just as if not more dangerous because it threatens where the Cristian will put there faith and doesn’t only endanger orthodox doctrine but practical living as well.
Baptist and someone who likes MacArthur here.
I still think those quotes of MacArthur are taken out of context. You mentioned he was trying to avoid monophysitism (and much more than that he was addressing some weird IFB ideas about the blood), and about the theotokos he is addressing the use of the term to avoid Mariolatry (just like John Calvin did). I admit, those quotes taken all by themselves sound Nestorian and probably could have been said better.
Redeemed Zoomer, if you had a big enough platform or knew some other way to reach out to him and ask him to clarify his statements, I am sure that he would. He was humble enough to do that with his view on Eternal Sonship. Back in the 80s he said that the title "Son" is something Jesus took on in the incarnation (though Jesus has always been eternally God), but in 2001 he corrected himself and said he was wrong and the title "Son" has been true of the 2nd Person from eternity past.
Is MacArthur Nestorian today? Absolutely not. His book (Biblical Doctrine - 2017) affirms both the "Blood of God" and that Mary is "The Mother of God". There is also an entire section in the book on heretical Christological views which explicitly condemns Nestorianism. MacArthur is obviously not teaching Nestorianism today. With the tens of thousands of sermons he has preached over the decades, if you pointed out those 2 quotes to him today, I am sure he would clarify what he was saying.
To end on a positive note. I love all your videos and that you care about the truth. I love your focus on being intellectual, theological, and historically rooted. One of my favorite verses on the communication of attributes besides Acts 20:28 is Rev. 1:17-18 where Jesus said He is the "first and the last" and "the living one", this is obviously true because He is the eternal living God. And then He says "I died"! How could God die? The only way that makes sense is the Chalcedonian definition. Jesus Christ (God) died for our sins and "behold I am alive forevermore"!
Agreed 100% I don't read or listen to MacArthur, but quote hunting is not what we as believers should do. We should look towards the countless sermons and printed materials to get a sense of their teaching.
Facts I’m a student at Masters Seminary, I can assure you that MacArthur does not affirm Nestorianism lol.
RZ need's to see this, if your reading this, like it so he does.
When you're so scared of sounding Catholic by calling Mary the Mother of God that you inadvertently adopt the Muslim view of Mary.
You mean the Satanist view of Mary.
Not true, if yes Apostles are the first muslims. Lol how stupid you sound
Did Luke write - oh how is that the Mother of My God come to me?
But still is sad that muslims respect Mary more (even that they belive Jesus was just prophet) then many protestants (and they belive Jesus is God)
@BasiliscBaz That's just outright slander. Where do Protestants not respect Mary and say that she isn't Jesus' Mother? We greatly respect her, after all, God chose her to be Jesus' Mother, that's an immense honor. We just don't pray to her for intercession, because we already have Jesus for that.
@@SockieTheSockPuppet Why do protestants parrot the same takes that have been debunked and aren't Biblical, Intercession is required of us as Christians. We are meant to pray for one another, why does that change for Saints in Heaven? Answer: It doesn't and Saints continue praying for Christians in Heaven, Including Mary.
Nestorianism is not a mixture of Christianity and Islam but one of the progenitors of Islam, those progenitors also including Arabic polytheism, Christian Ebionites and Jewish Exilarch influence.
My old liberal pastor did this, but also denied the resurrection, saying that Jesus was entirely separate from Christ, and that Christ replaced Jesus after the resurrection, meaning nobody conquered death. He also had all the various wokeisms we all know and ""love."" Needless to say, I'm glad to be out of there.
Holy cow, what heresey do we call that?
I don't like hating on protestants, specially because they are the majority of people risking their life to fight to end the slavery of our times which is abortion in America. But I hate when I see christians who are full of confidence on christianity with no reading, and having no understanding of what previous christians thought. THey just try to resignficate Christianity from scratch like Chrisitianity is a vage idea that anyone can shape to their own worldview.
Please guys stop doing this, ask why the christians prior to you thought before making your own heretical theories.
@@yosiyyahu.bar.stephen Replacionism? IDK
@@yosiyyahu.bar.stephenRetardanism,
Holy heresy, Batman!
W for fighting Nestorianism in 2024, I see it far too often
I like it when you spit facts so hard they accuse you of being Catholic. 😂
Saying nestorianism is a mix of Islam and christianity is absolutely inaccurate as Nestorianism existed hundred years before Islam
I've actually seen Muslim apologists claiming that Nestorians were Muslims lmao
actually the monk who taught Muhammad about Christianity was Nestorian (not Arian as St. John Damascene who writes about it calls him). And muhammad orignially claimed to be Christ at the second coming, because the title was a messianic aramaic title.
Yes
@@michaelg4919
Arabia was generally a place in which a lot of weird sects and Christian heretical groups were present in the 6th and 7th centuries.
These people were the first "Christians" that Muhammad got into contact with.
Many weird stories from gnostic apocryphal gospels like Mary giving birth under a palm tree or Jesus giving life to clay birds made it into the Quran.
Im imagining John MacArthur moving out to Northern Iraq to join the Assyrian Christians, & living like a desert nomad
😂😂😂
Nah, he'd call them heretics for not believing in the 5 Solas lol
That would be based tho
Funny thing is that assyrians more easely accept the title theotokos than John marcarthur
babai thegreat correct ed nestorian in 7th century for Assyrian
Stuff like these are reasons why I couldn't help but become Catholic.
We have a problem where so many of my fellow protestants are so scared to say Mary is the Mother of God not because they disagree with the meaning but because they disagree with the supposed connotations that mary is somehow the creator of God or something. But we cant be ambiguous with the essentials of the faith. If you believe, it confess it with your mouth.
Yeah, most Nestorians in the US are just reactionary heretics, they think it's too Roman Catholic.
An easy response to them is just “Your mother gave birth to you, but she didn’t create your eternal soul. Mary gave birth to Jesus, but she didn’t create His divine essence. Your mom is not the CREATOR of your soul, but she IS the mother of it. Mary did not CREATE the Son’s divine essence, but she IS His mother.”
So my question is that, is Mary the mother of Divinity? Or is there any biblical basis to call Mary the mother of God. These details are unexccessary distractions which I believe come from the devil order to divide us Christians. Not wanting to call Mary the mother of God does not necessarily mean that one supports Nestorianism. Can you give any explicit instance when MacArthur taught Nestorianism?
@@somemedic8482 saying the blood of Jesus was not the blood of God even though the bible says it is.
I confess with my mouth (and keyboard) that God is uncreated, has been, and shall always be, in His triune nature for all time, before Mary was conceived herself. God has no parents for he is uncreated & eternal in His entirety, including, of course God the Son, you can call this heresy if you want, but disagreement with it is blasphemy.
Mary is the mother of Jesus in his human nature. Since Jesus is one person with both divine and human natures, Mary is called "Mother of God" because the person she gave birth to is God the Son, not just a human being. She didn’t create his divine nature, but she gave birth to the person who is both God and man.
And this is more than enough to close the discussion. This is a stupid discussion that leads to heresy on both sides because you’re trying to go deeper than it is.
JMac is in line with the Chalcedonian Creed. RZ just wants beef with a Baptist.
@@dline6634 Thanks for understanding my comment.
Bingo
Yup. People knee jerk in the opposite direction because the normal human definition for "Mother of" (or "Father of") implies the mother or father caused the child to be what they are (simply human). In the case of Mary, even though she is His mother, she did not cause Him to be God. He was always God and always will be God.
I am glad you went on to explicitly distinguish your view from monophysitism. The first half of the video stated the Hypostatic Union but it was good that you clarified monophysitism as "the equal and opposite heresy that reacts to Nestorianism.
One other note - Nestorianism predates Islam by a century and a half, so while the description of Nestorianism as mix between Christianity and Islam may be theologically valid, it is historically impossible.
I think saying that Mary did not give birth to God comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what birth and motherhood are.
I haven’t heard too many of McArthurs teachings but I’d guess he’s more being anti catholic than Nestorian
An equal and opposite reactionary heresy.
@@JoWilliams-ud4eu did you just call the orthodox church a herasy?
He is anti-Catholic because he believes that Roman Catholicism defends many heresies, but he himself puts himself in the same situation. As RZ said, If it were the old lady from my Church saying this, I would understand (but I would correct her). But MacArthur should know better.
@@JoWilliams-ud4eu equal opposite reaction , under his eyes ,
I am Catholic- I can have a friendly discussion with Lutheran- Pentecostal, and Anglican.
The ones that don’t have good arguments are team MacArthur and KJB only Protestants.
Do you guys think Luther or Calvin would let Johny Mac preach at their churches, or the other way around/ would Johny Mac let the reformers preach.
Johny Mac is a liar plane and simple- a lying heretic.
Then in being Anti-Catholic he's being Nestorian.
If baptist churches would do the bare minimum of reading the creeds then this wouldn't happen. I spent 20 years in a baptist/nondenom church and didn't know creeds and confessions even existed
The problem is that Evangelicals are allergic to anything that has to do with Mary or Church tradition.
Can you blame us?? 😅
@@AlexCPauwels85 Yes.
@@AlexCPauwels85 Yes I can, brother. As Christians we should revere Mary and hold her in high esteem.
@@AlexCPauwels85 I’m not Catholic btw
Evangelicals need to stop calling themselves Protestant. At this point, they’re hijacking and ruining our label for no reason. They have zero connection to the Reformation. Let them come up with their own name for their new age beliefs, lol. If there’s an electric guitar on stage and “communion” involves eating a cracker once per month, it’s not a “church,” period. And it’s certainly not in any meaningful way “Protestant.”
I nearly mistook John MacArthur's name for famed WWII General, Douglas MacArthur
I'm pretty sure they're fifth cousins.
They are decent cousin and both super famous while having wild moments make you question their belief system
@@KOCChristian XD "Nuke em"-Douglas MacArthur, probably
Reading some of these comments is very concerning. With how some people are responding, it makes me think that from some Protestant point of views, there is no point of having heresies defined. As a Catholic, I’m glad that RZ is calling this out cause this is a huge problem.
So the Chalcedonian Creed is Nestorian?
Protestantism is an umbrella term. It refers to the different traditions that agree with the 5 soles. Some Protestants value the history and tradition of the church and others do not. Whenever I see someone comparing Protestantism with Catholicism, it gives me a warning, because the person is comparing a specific tradition "Roman Catholicism" with a category of different traditions.
Jesus Christ is a divine person who is truly God and truly man. So yes we can say God was born, God bled, God died & Mary is the mother of God.
Nestorianism is heresy that’s a given. But I think it’s just something people fall into because they’re allergic to any doctrine that sounds too “Catholic” to them
Imagine if they went to an Assyrian Church of the East only to be horrified because the CoE is still too "Catholic"
@@danshakuimoplop a modern evangelical into the Temple of Solomon and they would denounce it as demonic paganism.
Evangelicals deny the necessity of sacrifice in adoration. Heresy is the end result.
@@carsonianthegreat4672That was pre Jesus, moot point.
As a Baptist, yes Mary IS the Mother of God. That was never a problem for baptist teology in history.
When did John MacArthur became the representation of all Baptists? Would be a lot more usefull to talk about our creeds and confessions instead of popular heretic preachers.
You didn’t need 18 minutes to say yes
You haven’t even seen the video
@@tomp6470 He has talked about this so many times lol
You didn’t need that check mark either 😂
@@memesouls8653 my verification badge was predestined
People who follow someone like John MacArthur are not just going to hear someone say "thats heresy!" And immediately change their minds; very few people know how to access the writings of the fathers to read the formal rejections of heresy for themselves. YOU may not need 18 minutes. Good. This video isn't for you. Consider that there are people convinced of nestorianism who do need to be convinced. This video is for them.
Great video! I was incidentally thinking about Nestorianism this morning and boom here comes your video. Thanks for taking a deep dive into this heresy.
glad you made this video. we must hold leaders accountable to God's Word even if sometimes the truth can be hard to nuance exactly.
Here's how you can easily disprove Nestorianism using the Bible. In John 20:28 Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and My God". Now was Thomas talking to a person or a nature/essence? It makes no sense to say someone talks to a nature, we talk person to person, and the verse calls that specific person God. And logically, if that is the same person Mary gave brith to, Mary is the mother of God.
Thank you for this thorough explanation of something we Protestants need to be reminded of. The first time I taught the Chalcedonian Creed, calling Mary the Theotokos, someone said "That's Catholic." I said it sure is- small "c" catholic, as the Church mentioned in the Apostle's Creed! Keep up your valuable work of teaching Orthodoxy, Zoomer!
the problem with protestantism is that in order to validate their own protest they had to picture catholics as such an evil thing, often being called the anti-christ or Babylon, so each generation of protestants denounces the previous one of being still too-catholic.
They just forget that in origin Martin Luther never wanted to create a new denomination, he wanted to keep being Catholic.
Just look at Santa Claus, he was so deformed of his original character which was Saint Nicolas, by Brits trying to remove any Catholic reference in their culture, that today people have no idea he was a real man, and a important church father.
PS: you said Apostle's Creed but I think you meant Nicene Creed, the apostles creed says you believe in the communion of the saints.
@@MarkStein-b5b Hello, Mark. It could be that there are different versions of the Apostles' Creed. The one I grew up reciting states "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints...." Catholic was small "c", meaning not Roman Catholic, but universal.
my favourite protestant. This guy is honest, and unafraid nor ashamed. I pray you become orthodox.
Zoomer denouncing heterodox celebrity pastors?
And 3 minutes after upload?
splendid.
heretical*
Nothing he states is Nestorian, no more than the Chalcedonian Creed, which also makes the distinction. @@Nguyenzander
@@BrianRich1689 HE states he's Nestorian, didya watch the video?
@@Nguyenzander I legit have his Theology book Doctrine for life, and have poured through his Christology. It's not Nestorian by a long shot.
@@BrianRich1689 It's Nestorianism, mate.
Perhaps the word that was missing from Jesus, Christ, God was the word SON! This makes things so much more clear. Mary is the mother of the Son but she is not the mother of the Father nor the Holy Spirit.
Not to defend Nestorius or Machartur.
If I can say "God died for me", can I also say without hesitation "God died for you"?
Yes, God died for all of us
@@ChandlerTC 5 pointer Calvinists can't
Yes! Absolutely! Unequivocally! Amen!
@roneldell5137 any Augustinian philosophy can't, they are all anti-Christ
@@roneldell5137 bingo
Mary is God's mother in the same manner David is God's grandfather, though God is David's root (Rev. 22:16).
As a protestant Assyrian…this’ll be fun
Interesting!
Which Protestant tradition though?
Two quick verses debunking Nestorianism if anyone doesn't think it's heretical:
"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." - Acts 20:28
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" - Colossians 2:9
I prefer the orthodox take in this issue. Holy Theotokos, that being, the title of god-bearer is far more accurate description than mother of God while adding an extra layer of separation from more mundane births.
There's also the linguistic connotation that to make holy also means to make separate.
Interesting note. I was recently reading Sinclair Ferguson’s book Devoted to God and he makes a very good point on the definition of holy. We cannot only define ‘holy’ as ‘to be separate from’ because God is holy-that is holiness is of His divine nature. And the implications of that is that God then requires something to be separate from to be God, which then disrupts his eternal aseity. So, a better definition of holy is ‘devoted to.’ God is perfectly devoted to Himself. Each Person is fully, intensely, and perfectly devoted to the other two Persons of the Trinity. Therefore, the implication of devotion is to be separate from. You cannot be devoted to your wife if you are with another woman. The implication of God being holy is that He must be separate from things that are outside His perfect and good character. I only add this because I thought it was interesting and cool to share. Also, I agree with your take on using Theotokos rather than mother of God.
May the Lord bless you and may He keep you until the end of the age.
The Orthodox Church was together with the Catholic Church in the council of Efesos when they agreed that Mary is the Mother of God, Theotokos. To assume that the Orthodox have a different take than the council is a false doctrine.
PS: If you claim this, by being protestant. You need to understand that Orthodox people pray to Mary too, just like other saints, they use icons in their prayers and they even pray For dead people too, they even think that the Bishop of Rome was the first of all the other bishops and so he has a special title.
their biggest different is that they view this title as honorific, and without any supremacy over other bishops, while catholics think the Pope is the leader of all the bishops.
Seems like a low view of motherhood is the hangup, tbh.
Holy Mary is the Mother of God.
God was 1.) In her womb 2.) Birthed by her 3.) Suckled her breasts 4.) Had His head held up by her 5.) Raised by her.
She's God's Mother.
It's not different, it's just more linguistically accurate in most languages to use Theotokos because it's known what you mean by it precisely.
To use mother of god is less accurate even if same thing is meant because its a broader term in language.
@@MarkStein-b5btheotokos = God bearer
Natures are not born out of a person.
This is public dissent. You will be excommunicated from the One Holy Baptist Apostolic Church for your slander against Pope John MacArthur I.
We must all unsubscribe
Seeing as the JMaccabees broke away from the Southern Orthodox Independent Baptist Fellowship over not affirming the King James Bible as the only Bible (and yes, according to St. Ruckman of Pensacola, the corrector of the scriptures themselves), our Synod of Stripmall would be more than willing to take in Redeemed Zoomer, so long as he consents to the aesthetic of fluorescent lighting and lack of gay-affirming banners he swears don't matter to denominational integrity and orthodoxy.
this is finna go down as a certified banger video
Mary is the Mother of God Incarnate may be a better term for expression. As Anglican, we accept Mary as Theotokos (Mother of God).
Every magisterial reformer would have excommunicated MacArthur
Stunning that John Macarthur denies that God was ever born! See 10:59 . How does Macarthur think Jesus, who is God in the flesh, came to earth if He wasn't birthed by Mary? Wow - John Macarthur sounds crazy! Can't believe that so many people listen to him! Thanks for sharing those quotes RZ
As an Orthodox convert my jaw is literally on the floor this is a great video, I'm almost halfway through. I'm gonna share this. Good job RZ
You went from grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone for salvation to Grace through works as is the beliefs of the Orthodox church. Orthodoxy is apostate. I’m a convert out of Eastern Orthodoxy. Why do you think your works will save you?
@@MatthewFloorProtestant theology might look appealing on the surface, but it's foundational beliefs of sola scriptura and accordance with the faith of the apostles is untenable. As you came from EO, you should know that faith and works are not isolated, but work together.
A fruit tree is considered alive when it bears fruit. However the fruit isn't what made the tree alive..
FYI, being EO is what saves you according to classical EO. Therefore not even faith and works are sufficient in themselves...
Macarthur doesn't teach Nestorianism I don't know where you got that crazy idea from. I believe the blood comment was in the context of the Blood Controversy between him and Bob Jones Jr. Also I don't think it's incidental that you pulled a quote from so long ago. His theology has developed since his early years of ministry in part as a result of his friendship with RC Sproul. Within Macarthur's systematic theology he speaks against the error of Nestorianism so I don't think it is accurate to accuse him of it based on such little "evidence" cherry picked from over 50 years of ministry.
Would this be a legal case for libel then?
did he correct his statements?
These comments are like 10 year old
In 1987, when he made one of these statements, he was 47 or 48 years old. I don't think his theology has changed much since then.
@@CallMeFil Defo not. Macarthur did say things which have heavy nestorian connotations. And its not defamation if its based on true facts
As a Catholic I'm happy that this needs to be called out.
I listened quite a while before I gave up on you. I didn't hear any proof that MacArthur was Nestorian.
Because he's legit not. Not any more than the Chalcedonian Creed. JMac has a theology book, and his Christology is solid.
He did give proof. Maybe not enough to convince you, but certainly enough that someone should be careful when reading his theology.
@@BrianRich1689 The calcedonian creed refers to Mary as the Theotokos.
@@gilgameschvonuruk4982 The Chalcedonian Creed says that Mary is the mother of God "According to the manhood". Which is exactly what JMac teaches.
@@kolab5620 when the Chalcedonian Creed says "according to His manhood" that would be considered Nestorian too if we apply the same criteria.
God experienced death, but His divine nature did not die. Additionally, in my opinion, the issue with the term "Mother of God" lies more in the word "mother" than the term "God." As a failure of language, at first glance, this seems to imply that Mary precedes God, and that at one time God did not exist. This is because humans do not exist before they are born, but God does. In fact, because flesh is created, there was a time when Jesus' human nature did not exist, hence "The Word became Flesh." It's easy to see where Nestorius is coming from, but to use the logical end of his line to condemn him is good, then could the same not be applied to the title "Mother of God?" The title can lead to idolatry, which most would agree is worse than just getting something wrong about the nature of Jesus.
Theotokos (which JMac takes issue with in these quotes) means God-bearer. That term does not imply preceding God.
But it doesn't matter either way. John 3:16 calls Jesus begotten. That also implies he had a beginning, but he didn't. He was begotten of the father (a term exclusively reserved for father's contribution to reproduction), borne of Mary (a term reserved for the mother's contribution), conceived of the Holy Spirit.
Begotten, not made. Son, with no beginning. Mary is his mother, not his predecessor.
That is a major heresy. Jesus was begotten specifically to be incarnated into a human body. The universe was created only for Him. God does not deal with time and Jesus has always had a human nature.
@@loganpeck5084 You're kind of saying the same thing as me.
@@fij715 which statement is written in the gospel, "the word was always flesh," or "the word became flesh"?
@@rothgang I am. But I'm also pointing out that JMac has taken issue with even clearer terms than "mother of God". That term is completely true, yet it's easy to distinguish why someone would be cautious about where it could lead.
Theotokos, on the other hand, doesn't have this problem, and JMac still has a problem with that one too. It's definitely cause for concern, and he should certainly clarify explicitly if he's going to make these messages continue to be available to the public.
Redeemed Zoomer is low-key doing Catholic apologetics.
Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for our Nestorian evangelical brothers and sisters that they may return to the true apostolic deposit of the Faith.
Catholic apologetics? Yes. Roman Catholic apologetics? Node.
All the reformers agreed with Chalcedon and Lutheran, Reformed and Anglican churches subscribe to it. We, however, do not fall into the other errors affirmed by other Marian doctrines, especially that of the immaculate conception.
Actually quite helpful personally thank you
A duck walked up to a lemonade stand
And then he said to the man runnin' the stand
Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes?
The man said, no, we just sell lemonade
But it's cold, and it's fresh, and it's all home-made!
Can I get you a glass?
The duck said, I'll pass
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom)
When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And then he said to the man runnin' the stand
Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes?
The man said, no, like I said yesterday
We just sell lemonade, okay?
Why not give it a try?
The duck said, good bye
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom)
When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And then he said to the man runnin' the stand
Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes?
The man said, look, this is gettin' old
I mean, lemonade's all we've ever sold
Why not give it a go?
The duck said, how about no
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom)
When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And then he said to the man runnin' the stand
Hey (bam bam bam), got any grapes?
The man said, that's it, if you don't stay away, duck
I'll glue you to a tree and leave you there all day stuck!
So don't get too close!
The duck said, adios!
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
'Till the very next day (bom, bom, bom, bom, bom babom)
When the duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And then he said to the man runnin' the stand
Hey (bam bam bam), got any glue?
What, got any glue, no, why would I, ooh
Then one more question for you
Got any grapes?
And the man just stopped
Then he started to smile
He started to laugh
He laughed for a while
He said, come on, duck
Let's walk to the store
I'll buy you some grapes
So you don't have to ask anymore
So they walked to the store
And the man bought some grapes
He gave one to the duck
And the duck said, hmm, no thanks
But you know what sounds good?
It would make my day
Do you think this store
Do you think this store
Do you think this store
Has any lemonade?
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle)
Then he waddled away (waddle waddle, wadddle)
Then he...
Real🗿
Real chain🗿⛓️🗿
Guess what? Duck Song 5 released just last week! There's 5 duck songs now!
real 🗿
Legend
I think we just need to remember sometimes people make mistakes, we won't get everything right in this life. Good vid tho
I try my best to give Johnny Mac leeway, but if we're calling the balls and strikes we have to be honest that he's not afraid to twist things to fit a narrative. MacArthur will literally misrepresent scripture to bash Catholics, and that is indefensible. This is the man who claimed that Jesus disowned Mary at the foot of the cross. That's a shockingly stupid take, or a blatant lie intended to bash Catholicism by discrediting the mother of Christ. I hope that he's just a poor scholar, otherwise he is a bad actor bearing false witness from the pulpit, and scripture has some pretty harsh warnings about that.
yes, RZ says that he's ready to make another video to tell that McArthur isn't a heretic if he explains himself
One of the clearest texts to refute Nestorianism is John 20:26-28 in which Jesus is referred to as God by Thomas who could only see Jesus’ humanity.
Yes, God was born into the world by Mary, a child can understand this. Any pastor should understand that God had to limit himself by becoming a man to be a sacrifice for our sins. God became man and was born of a virgin simple. If someone asked you the question 'Is Mary the mother of God'? You should always say for God to come to earth and be a sacrifice for our sins he had to be born into the world, and that's where Mary comes in, she was chosen.
MacArthur is basically “Got Questions?”
@@ravenvane2227 I'm not sure which is more insulted, there.
Actually, I just checked and Got Questions does not stand with Nestorianism.
@@torterra70 and...?
@@torterra70 That’s unexpected. They’re a carbon copy of each other on pretty much every other issue.
@@barelyprotestant5365 nothing just stating an fact given the videos about Nestorianism. God Bless!
You should do a video on William Laine Craig’s Monotheletism next!
That wasn’t brought up at the councils, that was a secondary point that can still be argued today given the chalcedonian model
Returning my John MacArthur study Bible immediately
Having a single point of contention is perhaps human and thus disregarding all sound literature for one mishap in doctrinal understanding is perhaps not the most wise thing to do.
@@learningagain4094 I know brother, all jokes. Don’t actually own a John MacArthur study Bible. God bless!
Been trying to worn baptists and other Protestants for years.
Did you wear any of them down yet?
There is a big problem among Protestantism such that they will subscribe to many heretical teachings in an effort to not “sound Catholic”. This issue with Nestorianism is exhibit A.
We love the ceiling fan!
There’s a fine tradition in Christian theology, **derived from the Chalcedonian Creed itself** of distinguishing between the Persons of the Trinity, as well as between the divine and human natures of Jesus Christ the Son, without confusion, separation, or division. We *distinguish* between the natures of the Son while affirming the unity of those two natures in one Person-fully God and fully man. This is why many hesitate to call Mary the mother of God, because she isn’t the mother of God the Spirit or of God the Father, and even her claim as mother of God the Son is limited to the distinction between his human nature and divine nature. That is why the Creed itself affirms that she is “the mother of God, according to the manhood”.
Thats not what Macarthur said. He explicitly said Mary cannot be called Mother of God, which goes against both Ephesus and Chalcedon
@@justhair17yeah, my point wasn’t to defend MacArthur. I’m not a particular fan of his in any way. My goal was more to reinforce what RZ was saying but to clarify what the Chalcedonian Creed says for anyone still struggling with the phrase “mother of God” thanks to Catholic abuses of the doctrine. The Creed spells out the proper trinitarian theology that many folks might fear is under attack by using “Jesus” and “God” interchangeably.
Would MacArthur even consider Nestorianism a heresy?
Justin Peters is recording his response right about now
MacArthur really got under my skin when he said there’s no such thing as OCD. And I live with OCD.
this guy would have been such a good inquisitor ~700 years ago 🤣
You should really do a series of videos, one for each Ecumenical Council. At least on the first few. 1-5 maybe
Ave Maria, Mater Dei
translation for those who don't know latin: Hail Mary, Mother of God
@@MarkStein-b5b Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,
ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
@@carsonianthegreat4672 The Hail Mary! Ave Maria, Mater Dei, gratia plena!
Salve Regina
Very nice video, quite informative on the ‘why is it important’ question. Thank you
Zoomer woke up and chose violence
MacArthur is inconsistent, but he’s not a heretic. Yes, Mary is the mother of God. MacArthur affirms the theology behind the statement, he just doesn’t affirm the statement. That is inconsistent, but he’s not a heretic
It is clearly said in the epistle of Billy Bob to the 24 tribes of Baptisrael, the 67th book in the Bible.
This true. Trust me bro
Given the timeframe wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Islam is a product of Nestorian beliefs rather than the other way around?
This would also match with some other heresies that floated around modern Saudi arabia at the time of Mohammed and explain the multi chapter rants against the trinity where a Christian will slap their head and say "I agree that that concept of the trinity is wrong, but that is not what the trinity is!"
I know John said this but he doesn’t actually teach Nestorianism he is just anti catholic because of their false Gospel . John fully affirms the one divine person with two natures .
Catholicism has no false gospel.
In Korea, there is so many Nestorian protestants who deny Theotokos…They say virgin Mary was just mother of Jesus’ body
So many orthodox Christians suddenly are nowhere near as orthodox as they thought. It's ok. This is why we are saved by grace through faith.
*Formed faith
Silk comes from caterpillar cocoons.. caterpillars late in life becomes butterflies,it would be technically false to say "I'm wearing Butterfly cloth" 😅
Johnny Mac is punching the air while you call him a celebrity pastor
“Most Baptists are not Nestorian.” Thank you, sir!
One of your best vids
Except he's wrong. Chalcedonian Creed says exactly what JMac is, and JMac legit has a theology book that has a orthodox Christology.
"God was never born"... Yiikes.... I won't step a foot in any of his churches....
How dare you oppose the Pope of MacArthurianism Heretic! He founded MacArthauranity!
That’s right! He restored the true Church after that fiend Chancellor Constantine mixed Christianity with the Dark side and created the w*ore of Oklahoma!
God could do as He pleases, if He wants to come down as divine man, God man, man God, burning bush. None of it should matter when it comes to the truth of faith, God came down through Mary and saved mankind from eternal separation. He could have generated Himself through a stone, but it was for us; the gift of understanding His ways and humbling us.
10:39 I have to say I'm glad people like you are making content like this but I have to ask why it would be wrong to say that the blood of Christ is divine blood if Jesus is divine and His blood is the blood of God. BTW I'm Orthodox so that's the lens that I'm looking at this through.
What he meant by saying that Jesus' Blood isn't divine is that It doesn't have a Divine Nature. But it is divine insofar you take divine to mean "of God", instead of "of God's Nature"
Think it’s because you’re combining Jesus’s natures
In the person of Jesus is the spirit of the infinite, uncreated and eternal, God indwelling the finite envelope of a created man. According to Leviticus 17:11-14 'the life of the body is in its blood' so therefore Jesus is uniquely able to absolve human sin through the power of His blood, which, is not of infinite quantity but is of limitless power. Thus He is our 'kinsman redeemer' in the Old Testament sense and, mercifully, He only requires our faith in his sacrifice in exchange for our personal redemption. Hallelujah!
“I’m just a minecraft youtuber don’t listen to me”
I’m probably gonna wait a bit to watch this cus I definitely have some feelings about MacArthur I want to kinda have in check when watching this. But will be interesting to check out when I can.
This is great! Would you consider making similar deep dives into other heresies and why they so importantly matter?
Nestorius: "it is more accurate..."
RZ: "Mary is not the mother of the divine nature"
Mary *is* the "mother of God" but the reason that's not entirely accurate to just plainly state (especially if we're being as pedantic as you suggest we should be) is exactly as you said - God's divine nature did not originate from Mary (or anything, for that matter).
a mother doesn't give birth to a nature, she gives birth to a Person. Jesus is one Person with two Natures. He was always God, even in vitro. Mary gave birth to Christ who had both a human and divine nature. He didn't become divine at some random time after his birth.
"For every heresy, there is an equal and opposite counter-heresy."
Ah, so the filioque being inserted into the creed to combat Arianism then.
I'm evangelical, but I never was a fan of John MacArthur. I haven't seen too many of his sermons, but the ones I've seen made me angry because he was clearly strawmanning those he disagreed with. It's very hard for me to listen to someone if they can't fairly present the arguments of those they disagree with before presenting their counter-arguments. That is one of the reasons I like this channel. I'm not a Calvinist or Reformed, but I want to hear the honest arguments from those I may disagree with. I want to learn about Calvinism and be able to articulate their arguments fairly. I've even learned some things I agree with and other things that have made me think. I still disagree with Calvinism but it helps me improve my perspective. I respect RZ because he does try his best to fairly represent those he disagrees with. Is he perfect? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. However, he always corrects himself when he realizes it.
I agree with you, but it's a bit silly to be saying that MacArthur teaches heresy, but Catholics don't teach heresy
A rare Zoomer W. It's criminal when people try to argue that MacArthur is Reformed.
Common
Zoomer, as a Catholic i just have to say I wish more protestants were like you.
"Protestant" is too broad a category to make any meaningful sense. Lutheran, Anglican, and Reformed are the traditions that are most in line with what the Reformers taught.
Richard Rohr is also a Nestorian.
Yep, he has rightfully been called out as heterodox by many Catholic theologians
I am a Nestorian
The.are.those.people.arians.or.aerians.not.nestorians.
Nestorius.was.only.partly.heretical.he.repented.accepted.partly.the.calcedonian.definition.with.the.
Tom.off.pope.patriarch.off.
Vatican
Leo.l.and.died.in.partly.unithy.wich.
Costantinopole.
Alexandria.
Antiochia.and.
Vatican.only.the.disciples.off.
Nestorius.rebelled.and.formed.their.own.church.
Those.people.here.are.neoarians.not.followets.off.
Nestorius
@@hila3175 why
A lot of issues like this stem from language. We often to refer to God the Father as “God,” while also using the same word (God) to refer to both the Godhead and the divine nature of Jesus. It is accurate to describe all of these as God, but it is semantically confusing.