325: What is a "VERSATILE CARTRIDGE" anyway?
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Hey, is the 30-06 really a versatile cartridge? And what exactly do we mean by a versatile cartridge? Well, we're going to find out on this episode of Ron Boomer Outdoors Podcast. But that's not all!! We're also going to answer the question on everyone's mind: What the heck does B.C. stand for, and does it matter?
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Something I have never had the desire to say is “my good old 30-06 will work on anything”. Finding my favorite tool for each category (varmints, predators, antelope, deer, elk, targets, etc.) has been much more entertaining.
I've always been a fan of the 3006. After trying multiple calibers. It has always been my go-to. I missed it while in the service.
This might confuse some shooters. The 3006 is like the small block chevy of the automotive world. The after market support and versatile power plant has been used in every motor sport. While it might not have been the optimum choice. It was competitive. As a car guy, comparing modern cars to old. I can also enjoy the 3006 like it is a rare muscle car. Sure a Lamborghini will be faster, and a Cadillac will be more comfortable. But a small block powered corvette will never get old. They can and have done it all. The 3006 is the corvette of the caliber world. Make it what ever you want it to be.
Again...another comparison to cars. The BC is like a top fuel dragster compared to a delivery van. Drive or drift behind a sleek car on the hwy. Than get close to a 18 wheeler. Can you feel the BC of the vehicles.
Thank you for this video.
I own a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .30-'06 (Dad bought it for himself in the Late Sixties.) and a Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker chambered in .300 Win Mag. (I bought it for myself in 2011.) Each has taken deer at 250 to 300 yards. In all cases, the wounds were devastating.
Recoil? I never notice recoil when I squeeze the trigger on a game animal.
The book says both can be loaded with bullets ranging from 110 gr. up to 225 gr..
Each packs sufficient wallop to take most any game native to North America.
If I cannot kill it with one of those two rifles, I will leave it alone.
You are right, I don't even remember the exact moment my shots go out, much less the recoil up to 7 mm REM MAG
I'm getting an AR-10. I'm looking forward to hunting.
They make a great hunting rifle. They can be a bit heavy depending on configuration. I'm working on an ultralight one specifically for hunting. The first one I assembled I gave to my son. I'm doing an ultralight AR 15 in 6.5 Grendel also for hunting too.
I am so jealous of you Americans and your liberty.
@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 "The truth is, all might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they ought." - Samuel Adams
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924we're running out of it fast brother. And most of the Americans don't have the gall to fight for it when the time comes.
I recently got a Ruger SFAR, 20" 308win. Mine has been spot on with sub 1" at 100yrd no matter what I shove down it's throat. It was a bit gassy at first but once it settled in 🤯. Literally AR15 milspec commonality on everything minus bolt carrier and barrel. Possibly the best AR 308 platform under $1000 and that's during the Biden economy. Think how cheap they gonna be when Trump gets back from vacation
Just imagine living in a world where you could successfully hunt big game with a caliber that doesn't end with the word magnum or creedmoor, sounds like heaven...
And isn't prefaced by something called "high-BC bullets".
@@exothermal.sprocket strange my grandfather hunted elk and mule deer very successfully all through the 60s and 70s using a 3006 he didn't need "high bc" he was a real hunter.
@@Threegunmaster I'm sure he did, and didn't give a single thought to all the obsessions that plague gun mags and channels these days.
30-06 was great. But I'm finishing my build of the 22GT, so the -06 will live the rest of it's days in the gun safe. And NOT a Liberty Gun Safe either. :)
I think you forgot to mention that 30-06 shells are readily available in ALL sporting goods stores. Even in the back country, a lot of ranchers probably have a box of 30-06 in their glove box.
Used to be that way pre Covid Crazy.. they still aint showing up much nor lasting long on shelf in my area.
@@michaelwilson9986 X2, 30-06 is one of the harder rounds to find in my area. Last time there was a shortage it was the NATO rounds that were the worst, but this time around .308 ammo is all over the place. Very weird.
Dunno why, but despite .30-06 being popular, there was never a shortage for it in my area of Canada like there seemed to be in the U.S. I'm sure things will turn around. So many people still shoot it and there are literally millions of rifles sitting in people's safes chambered for it, so the shortage won't last forever. Hopefully things change for you soon!
@@michaelwilson9986 Yeah, I'm still not seeing much .30-06, .300wm, other bigger rifle rounds. When I do it's 2-3 boxes of Win Power Point or whatever Federal's analogue (Power Shok?). Still haven't seen any of the new Rem Core-Lokt on local shelves, and that was my go-to for "cheap" factory hunting loads in most chambering's. Magnum revolver rounds are still hard to come by, especially .454, .44mag, .460, etc. Lever gun rounds like .30-30, .35rem, 45-70 are very hard to find.... Most of it can be found online now though, so at least it's obtainable unlike late 2020-early 2022.
There's a ton of 7.62 NATO, .308, 6.5CM, .270win, newer rounds like the PRC's, 6.8 West in local stores, but when I do find .30-06 in any loading (even 150gr ball) it's gone within a day or two. Not sure if there are THAT many .30-06 owners or if my area just isn't getting much stock shipped-in.
@@Plumcraziness I live in Alberta, and the last 3 years its been hard to find 30-06 anywhere. 30-30, .303 and 410 are almost impossible. This year its gotten slightly better better but .270 has gotten scarce.
The late Townsend Whelen himself expressed a preference for the .270win, specifically because he felt it performed better pot hunting small game when downloaded than the 06, but still had enough power "to drop the largest moose that ever lived". My own vote for the .270 as a one-gun option is that IMO it reaches a better compromise without the need of switching bullets and re-sighting. I used a 150 grain .270 load to take everything from wolves to moose for years with no complaints.
The 30-06 just occupies a sweet-spot for hunting. I load it between 85 grain and 200 grain. In the cheap Savage 110 it was a 1 MOA gun for me. I just put it in the very affordable MDT Oryx and now it is a 0.6 MOA gun with the 200 grainers. Hard to beat
You can stabilize an 85 grain bullet? I've only ever seen as low as 110 grains.
That’s a great point that you can take a great rifle and put it in a different stock configuration and make it even better. How does it shoot as far as seeing your hits to the scope? Do you have a muzzle break? If so, what kind?
@@rpk5250 I am running a short 20‘ barrel and have hunting situations where I might not have the ear pros in (and I don‘t like to blast everybody on the range 😁). So I use a suppressor.
The load is close to max pressure. with the setup I can tell where the dot was right after the shot, but I can‘t see the impact. Probably need to work on my technique 🤔
@@nikos6220 how is the recoil since you put it in the oryx?
@@rpk5250 with the can and given that it is just a 30-06 it was always quite tame. It is even less now. Some of it is just physics as the plastic stock was quite a bit lighter. Also the muzzle rise is way less, which I put on the different geometry. All in all a great upgrade.
But with the can and the scope at the edge of what I am willing to lug around
The aught six is taking more bear in Russia than any Johnny come lately worldwide combined. The 54R is a close second but also second choice if you got the 06
Offering a wide range of bullet weights and styles to do most everything you could ask of it. Maybe even some higher BC bullets.
There are now higher BC 156 and 165 Grain bullets that work in 1/10 twist 270 Win barrels improving its versatility too recently.
In part about handguns, you forgot to mention specialty pistols (Remington XP100, TC Contender and Encore, Nosler M48 etc), and those can use rifle cartridges, especially with after market barrels. It would be great if you could bring to your show a handgun hunting legends of the US (and world in the same time) like JD Jones, Mark Hampton, Dr Larry Rogers etc all of them hunted around the world, all animals, including dangerous game. Handgun hunting is different and majority of us who do it, do it because we want bigger challenge and even more importantly, because we live in a country where we have that freedom to hunt with handguns.
Ten days ago I harvested my first proghorn with BFR 44 mag, 109 yards shoot, one and done.
I enjoy your show and videos. Thank you sir. I wish you many more years of hunting and enjoying life.
The dirty ought ssix is the epitome of versatility. Handloaders can set it up for anything from squirrels to elephants within reasonable ranges.
I'm an admitted .30-06 fanboy, and while .30-06 has literally been used for taking every animal on earth, I'd rather have .22LR for squirrels and something much larger and more powerful for a charging elephant, thanks. lol But I do get your point. 👍 Regardless, .30-06 is an incredible round and the most versatile IMO. Especially with modern bullets that make it even more capable than it ever has been (if needed). Cheers.
"Reasonable ranges" are pretty much what most hunters take most of their game at, but which most hunters wouldn't be honest with themselves about what they romanticize about ranges.
If u want to shoot heavier bullets in 270 win. just get a 280 rem. And another reason to get another riffle. Should have at least one in every cal anyway right!
One of the traits of a versitile cartridge is the ability to use bullets of a wide SD range. One advantage of the 06 and 6.5 Swede is that they can use projectiles of high enough SD to penetrate well on very large critters.
For sure. Sectional density is a somewhat overlooked factor by many people when it comes to terminal performance. Both .30 cal. and 6.5mm in their upper grain sizes have some of the highest SD numbers of any caliber. Particularly with modern bullets. Within each caliber's limitations, they are both extremely effective. Cheers.
Ron I appreciate these videos , your knowledge is impressive ! i own many long guns in variouse calibers and if i could only keep one is my 3006 !
I agree Ron with your 30-06 opinion. 🇦🇺
When hiking the woods, I carry an ultralight Tikka 3006. Effective at ranges I usually shoot at. When hunting antelope, I take 2 rifles in my truck, the 3006 and a 6.5 PRC. The 6.5 PRC is a long very heavy rifle that I have no desire to hike with. With antelope, we drive until we spot the herd and then decide on how to harvest an animal. If we can make a sneak and close to within 350 yards then the 3006 comes out. If they are in a wheat field and range is way the heck out there, then the 6.5 PRC. Can I shoot the 3006 to those distances yes, however the 6.5 is easier. I still love my 3006 and shoot it a lot. I even will target shoot my ultra light at 1000 yards plus. I don't vary my loads. Prairie dogs, 180 grain bullet, elk 180 grain bullet, grouse, 180 grain bullet, the loads can be varied, but as mentioned, I don't want to rezero for every load. I practice with the 180 grain as well, in the military, we learned to train the way we fight, it hold true for shooting.
Tell Russell to get a 243 or a 7mm-08 call it a day
Going on 20yrs ago….U of Washington had a cougar study going on with radio collared lions. They were using hunters who still owned dogs (after outlawing lion hunting with dogs) to find the animals before the batteries went dead. Tree ‘em, dart them, health analysis, new batteries. They found interesting info on each cat’s range, and learned they take a week to survey their range which I believe was about 10 sq miles. Meaning if you should happen to see a cat…..you won’t have a chance to see it again in that area for a week. One of the cats had a den about 20yds behind the garage of a suburban edge of the city home with kids normally playing in the back yard. Homeowners had never seen the cat ever, and were quite surprised to learn a cat lived just behind their garage!
Shooting the Remington accelerator which came out about 1975 you had a sabot with a 55 grain bullet mounted in it traveling at 4000 fps.
I played with them, STILL DO, Accuracy isn't that great though. What is great is the 243 with the 55 grain varmageddon! At 500 yards it's a laser!
That was good on bc super thanks ron
My pleasure, James. Thank you.
Thanks, specially on the 7mm-08 cartridge, my do it all in Texas cartridge , great video.
Great review.
I own many rifles in various calibers, and live on the erast coast. My go-to is my REM 700 in 30/06.
I've watched other youtube channels showing that a .270 winchester with a 1/10 twist barrel was perfectly capable of stabilizing 165 grain accubond bullets up to long ranges. However, for practical purposes wind could have the same effect on a heavier bullet with a high BC travelling at lower velocities than a ligher bullet travelling faster.
Hi Ron, great video as usual. I think the singing comes from that little sad song you sang at the beginning of your recent 308 video.
I have also seen on reloading Weatherby‘s channel that he was able to stabilize and accurately shoot a 168 grain out of his 1:10 twist 270 Winchester, and he started that little series not believing it was possible until he found out it was.
As far as the versatility of .30-06, for me, as a one rifle, one tool homesteading hunter, having to re-zero for different loads is just not an issue at all. During any one hunting season, it's not like I am hunting for deer, coyote, black bear and moose all within the same week. As a homesteader, I only hunt game for the meat I require to stock my freezer for the year, so most years I may take deer with a 150 gr bullet, and if I'm lucky I may get a tag to shoot a moose with a 200 gr, or perhaps even a 220 gr bullet. Or perhaps a black bear with a 180 gr bullet. But rarely do I ever need to hunt for multiple species during any one year, as that would be more than I need anyway.
What I mean to say is that, more often than not, there are months or an entire year between the times I hunt for different kinds of animals, requiring different loads, and that gives me MORE than enough time to re-zero and get accustomed to shooting whatever load I am using for a given species. Same goes for memorizing trajectory tables for each load.
This may be a little more specific to me, but being that I only use one rifle (.30-06) for medium to large game hunting, that also allows me to be much more intimately familiar with that rifle, and how it shoots different loads with different bullet weights and bullet types, which makes re-zeroing more intuitive as well. Again, given the time between hunting for different animals and the loads it requires for each kind, re-zeroing is just a complete non-issue.
The best explanation on bc ever.i recently loaded 120 gr Hornady sst for my 250 savage they keyholed at 60 yds.
I will now go to the Hornady 117 roundnose
Wish me luck and thanks again
I heard the 30 06 is beyond its expiration date and the bullets barely fall outta the barrel now...along with a cloud of dust. I'm glad the .308 is almost 50 years younger. 😂
308 maybe 50yrs younger but substantially weaker sause, you enjoy wish power while my modern production 30.06 delivers 150grn, 165grn, 180grn to 3000+fps & up to 220grn 2800+/-fps but for that brown bear bust'n ability... Or I can go way down on bullet weight and plink off groundhogs etc. The 308 is great as a modern auto semi auto military application man buster, sure it can do other things but nothing and I mean nothing 30.06 can't achieve also round per round.
@@FranzAntonMesmer The 7-08 in a Howa Super Lite would be a fantastic, budget friendly, factory rifle. Hopefully it sells well and they introduce more chamberings. I have a 308 and it is fantastically light for a factory gun.
I currently have .223, 6.5 Grendel, .300 blk, .308, 7 PRC in several different rifles. Weight is becoming the determining factor for me...I've gotten old.
That’s funny because I heard the 308 is a girls gun 😂 and only littles kids like the 308 because it’s so small and their not strong enough to handle a full size cartridge! Good thing the 30-06 is still around to baby sit the 308🤔😳😂
@@edwardabrams4972 you must be confusing the 06 with one of the big 30s. :)
Yes, that also annoys me, when people say a cartridge is "old". Age is irrelevant, only function is relevant. The 9mm Parabellum is even older than the 30-06 and I can't think of a more practical pistol cartridge.
If you're considering a defensive weapon in the "do-all" category, I'd go .308. Runs in modern AR10's, good quality mags can be had for cheap, and with copper mono's you could take moose/elk (if you had no other option...) at moderate distances, great deer/hog round, 110's or lower for varmint, etc.
I'd say if you live in the high plains/western US/AK, or if defense is lower on your list of concerns, .30-06 for sure. You'd just have to drop a few grand on a nice M1 Garand if you wanted the defensive aspect rolled into the "do all". If you're east of the Mississippi &/or defense is high in your priorities, .308 (or maybe even 6.5CM if you're comfortable using a slow 6.5 on bigger deer species) is the way to go. Both .308 and .30-06 would be a very adequate brown/griz defense round in a semi-auto platform as well (though neither would be my first choice for that task)
Thankfully we don't live in a country where you can only have one! (yet...)
Great Vid Ron ... intieresting that people will be obsessed with trying to get to 1/2 MOA rifle but pay little attention to the balistics of a bullet at 300 ... the only time BC is of little concern is when dangerous game is on the menu over short distances and its the .375+ than needs to be taken out of the cupboard with a 300gr+
The V MAX Hornady is a good fur bullet.
Think of all the brands of bullets and weights for the thirty cal. Brands of brass, primers, powders... Think of all the different applications relative to different game animals and sizes of animals. You can use your thirty cal to shoot cottontails or black bears. That's versatile.
Good information. But imho, 30-06 and 270 have earned their place. Maybe more so the 30-06 simply on versatility. My father had a friend in the mid 70s who gave him boxes of 30-06 rounds to spend so this guy could reload the brass. Ranging from 90gr. to 220gr.. We probably ran a hundred rounds through Dad's Enfield bolt.
Agreed. Both .30-06 and .270 Win are excellent rounds. I tend to lean more toward .30-06, but if someone told my all I could have is a .270, I'd be happy with that too. I prefer .30-06 for the versatility it has, but it really is amazing just how much .270 can be used for if all you shoot are its two most common bullet weights: 130 gr and 150 gr. Using only those two sizes it's incredible what it can achieve. Regardless, both are excellent rounds that have stood the test of time, and any hunter should be proud to own either, or both.
I'm guessing your dad's Enfield was sporterized? Lee Enfields are excellent rifles in their own right with extremely smooth, reliable and quick actions. Here in Canada, the .303 British round that Lee Enfields are factory chambered for takes countless moose, bears and even elk every season up here. The .30-06 has more reach, but within 250-300 yds. I'd be just as happy with either. The .303 really puts big game down and hits harder than its ballistics on paper would indicate.
Super!
Ron Spomer, is Jack O’Conner with a nice personality.
243 with Vmax is a great fur bullet 😊
30-06 the TRUE one gun. (Often immitated, NEVER duplicates).
Ive got to make an adjustment to the scope mounts on my 243 bolt action so i can get shooting it. Ive been messing with other new rifles and im behind shooting my go to rifle.
Hayden a nosler ballistic tip would do good to save hides
It's over 100 years old and still viable. That should be enough
Agreed. It still effectively and ethically takes animals as well as it did years ago. Even more so now with the higher BC bullets available for it that give it even more range and better ballistics. Good ol' .30-06 is as viable now as it has ever been. It's just going to take some time for some people to realize that.
120yrs🦬
@@Plumcraziness I don't know that there are any new bullets that are of higher bc than bullet I could always get for my 06. The construction of the bullets seems to be better but bc's haven't gained.
@@russellkeeling4387 Well, I suppose it all depends on what bullet design and grain size you use, but on the upper end as an extreme example: Nosler makes a 210 gr Accubond Long Range bullet with a BC of .661, and Hornady makes a 212 gr ELD-X bullet with a BC of .663, as well as a 220 gr ELD-X with a BC of .654. All of them are stabilized with a standard 1:10 twist barrel as well. I also recently came across another hunting bullet in .30 cal with a BC just over .700, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.
However, I don't mean to imply you need large 200+ grain bullets for every situation though! Not by any means. I just mentioned those as an example of some of the highest BCs that are available for .30-06.
But as you hinted at, modern bullet construction has improved terminal performance, as well as offering different designs that are better suited for different situations and even different animal species. Bullet construction design is paramount to proper terminal performance, but another lesser-talked about aspect of terminal performance is sectional density, and this is also where high BC bullets have an advantage.
With that said, I don't mean to come off as a bullet snob at all! I even use Core-Lokt, and I love some of the older, lower BC stuff as much as much as the high BC stuff. They all have their uses, it's just the high BC stuff has a definite ballistics advantage beyond 300 yds. (or even less in some cases, depending on the bullet design). However, it's all moot if a particular rifle doesn't shoot it well, no matter what it is. lol Cheers.
@@Plumcraziness I understand bc and sectional density very well. I am a self taught student of external ballistics. To me the bc of a bullet does not matter in distances I feel are ethical distances to shoot at wildlife. This is just how I feel and do not begrudge anyone that wants to shoot long distances but just make sure you walk over there and affirm a hit or not. Light bullets loose velocity rapidly no matter what the bc is, it's a matter of physics, so the energy left at long range is very low. Ron Spoomer is correct when he says the wound channel and blood loss are what kills an animal and not energy, but it does require enough energy to create a good wound channel.
30-06 is the Jack of All Trades kind of cartridge, but may not be the master of most. You could make a case that it is within the sweet spot for Elk. It can handle any game animal in North America and the vast majority of the rest of the world. Probably a bit high on recoil and powder burn for deer and smaller to be the 'perfect' tool but not so far off to be absurd. Might be a bit light for Kodiak brown bear but plenty have been taken with it.
If I was told I had to choose one rifle for the rest of my years, it would either be 7mm-08 or 30-06. The answer would depend on if I was willing to cross big bears off the agenda. For Elk / Moose and smaller 7mm-08, if big bears are a possibility then 30-06.
I figure it takes 5 rifles to truly cover all the bases. .22 LR, 22-250, 7mm-08, 338 Win Mag, 458 Win Mag should cover the entire range.
Bear Creak Arsenal Good place to get uppers and lowers or Just parts.
I knew someone that would hunt turkey with a 30-06 and other game birds lol
Hey Ron, what’s the story behind the pheasants forever frame behind you? Love the work you do!
He has an English Setter Bird 🦆 Dog 🐶 that’s the Story !
They could put a warning on the bov just like they do for weak action 45/70.
Yes all the sbove.
I waited forever to get nos ablr .270 150 gr. with magical bc #s never in stock and now I noticed I don't even get their emails. But I did stock up on 145 eld-x so I guess I'm a hornady guy now!
Hey could you please do a video about the 300 Norma mag
The 3006 Sabot round does well against coyotes at 600-700 meters, [projectile: 56gr Nosler sabot, 4,300 fps at the muzzle] from there it's the 220gr. bear round, will drop the grizz at ranges out to 300 yards. Everything in between is game on the table.
I had a box of the sabots. It grouped about 8 inches lol. Neat concept though.
@@phild9813 My experience with the sabots exactly. I think an 8 inch group from my gun may have been at 50 yards.
Barns, Hornady cx, or accubond for 708.
300 blackout with 110 v-max for wolf!!
if Browning is offering some fast twist 270 win rifles I'm sure Winchester already has some heavy for caliber high BC factory ammo in the works. I would personally be more interested in a round nose 160 - 165gr partition for Elk and or moose in the eastern timber.
I personally think that a standard 1:10 twist 270win barrel would stabilize a 160 just fine.
Yes, 30-06 and 308 are versatile cartridges, but neither can handle heavy bullets. The 300 win mag can do everything.
Sorry for such a long reply, but just a few thoughts about .30-06 as a whole...
While .300 Win Mag is relatively versatile, I still feel .30-06 is more versatile. On the smaller end of the spectrum, .30-06 can be used for coyote, where .300 Win Mag is overkill. The same could be argued for deer as well. Sure, deer are taken with .300 Win Mag every year, but not that much power is needed for them. On the upper end of the spectrum, .30-06 can be loaded with up to 220 gr bullets and is highly effective for moose and elk, and can even take grizzly and buffalo if need be. With that said, it can be argued that .300 Win Mag could be "better" for large, hard to kill game like grizzlies and buffalo, but even in those cases, I'd probably want something more powerful like a .338 Win Mag or even a .375 H&H for those situations. Not to say that .30-06 or .300 Win Mag can't do the job if need be, but I'd rather have something bigger than either .30-06 or .300WM for those animals.
For me though, where I feel the argument can be made for .300 Win Mag is whether you shoot at longer ranges or not. Such as in open areas like out west. That's typically where it has a bit more of an advantage over .30-06 due to the extra reach .300 Win Mag has...at least in typical, traditional stock ammo. However, with the newer higher BC bullets that are available, the .30-06's range is better than it has ever been, and is much better than many people may realize.
For instance, as an example: Ultimate Reloader did a recent video featuring .30-06 shooting 212 grain Hornady ELD-X bullets, and with 56.3 grains of Superformance powder it shot 2,590 fps at the muzzle, produced 1,627 ft.-lbs. and 1,859 fps at 600 yds., AND has literally identical wind drift numbers right across the board as a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 143 grain ELD-X, due to the 212 grain ELD-X's even higher BC of .663 (using Hornady's ballistics calculator). All this equals sure death to ANY animal shot at sane distances, while also delivering the power required for even longer distances. With today's modern higher BC bullets, .30-06 isn't the same round grandad shot back in the day.
With all that said, I don't say that to imply that .30-06 is "better", or to disparage .300 Win Mag IN ANY WAY. Both cartridges are EXCELLENT in a wide range of hunting conditions. Any hunter should be proud to own rifles chambered in either of them, or both. It's just that .30-06 is more versatile than you might think. It can be handloaded down with lower power for smaller game that .300 Win Mag isn't quite suited for, yet it can also be used to hunt every larger game animal that .300 Win Mag is capable of taking as well. And with modern components, .30-06 is as powerful as you'd ever need for those same animals within sane hunting distances. Both rounds are great, but .30-06 is just a bit more versatile from smallest to largest game. Just one man's two pesos. No harm implied or intended. Cheers, and straight shootin'!
You know you can download the 300 win mag. That’s exactly what Remington did with the 300 rum, able to purchase factory ammunition in several different performance stages, I think down to close to a 30-06?
@@davedemangone6033 Oh, for sure .300 Win Mag can be loaded down too, but not as low as .30-06, which makes being able to shoot smaller game more feasible at that end of the hunting spectrum. Also, keep in mind that I am coming at this with the "one rifle" criteria that the person who wrote into Ron mentioned in his letter to him. I'm also of the one rifel mindset for medium to large game in particular, so it's just interesting to see what different cartridges can do. Regardless, both .30-06 and .300 Win Mag are both excellent rounds and you can't really go wrong with either! 🙂 Cheers.
How much better can a .300 Win Mag do the stuff the .30-06 do? Well into the territory of diminishing returns.
In fact, if hunters would be perfectly honest without romanticizing, exaggerating, wish-making, or lying, they'd admit the range at which MOST of the game they've taken is well within reach of optimal performance of .30-06.
Frankly, .45-70 would serve more hunters better than they would admit, without the need for stupid velocity, stupid BC numbers, stupid expansion ratios, and all the rest of the gun-magazine-obsessions.
I've always had a 30-06. I've also owned a 7mm rem mag. and .338 mag. and a 300 win mag. I don't own any magnum rifles now but I do own a 30-06. I have hunted in elk country all my life and never found the need for a magnum rifle. The 30-06 and a 7mm mauser do the job nicely because I don't consider myself a hunter if I have to take a shot all the way across a 40 acre pasture.
A versitile caliber is one like the 06 and 308 with over 1000 hand and factory loadings a piece. Look at Barnes TTSX bullets 130-180 grains in these massive killing power and flatness do anything.
seems like handguns are also far more limiting as far as cartridge length and power. especially semiautomatos.
There is definitely an obsession with BC these days among a certain crowd. I remember on a forum one time I stated that I was shooting 250 grain Accubonds from my 338-378. Somebody asked, "Why are you shooting light bullets?" 🤣
I'm all for high BC bullets, but it only really starts to come into affect beyond 300 yds. Within that range, standard lower BC bullets are just fine, and higher BC bullets aren't really needed. Not for hunting anyway. Even Core-Lokt does the job for countless people in closer to medium ranges. That's the fun thing about hunting is there are so many ways to skin a cat! Cheers.
LOL!
@ron sophomore outdoors my question is. With the newfast twist rate barrels of the same caliber cartridge. Should we start having concerns about spin apart of projectiles whit the lighter grain projectiles normally being constructed of different jackets. I have personally witnessed 257 Weatherby does pockets about 50 yards out. If you go to a faster twist you lose your speed with your lighter projectiles, which defeats the purpose of Reagan, generic the mousetrap
I once loaded some 110 grain plinker bullets very hot for my 30-06 to see what would happen. The rifle was an average twist rate. The bullet would fire out 20 or so yards and turn into a puff of silver grey smoke and never hit a target. The bullet flew apart.
Versatile, the 30-06 will kill anything from gophers to brown bears. Although in Wyoming I caught a lot of grief from the “7mm mag fan Boys”. They were more obnoxious than the 6.5 Cm crowd.
7RM was once my favourite, however now that I've become a more skilled hunter (shot placement etc), I use my 223 and 243 for most of my hunting.
Rember when 7 mag came out. They were so obnoxious they never thought what they were doing comparing 7m to an 06. So I have a 338 wm. Same size case as 7m .I can shoot 338 with 180 [ same as 7m] att 3250 .( I don't). Do shoot 200 att 2600 to2800 easy oth. Will load it to3100.🦬🐎
.30-06 has taken cape buffalo, hippo, rhino and elephant. Although no .30 caliber is really appropriate for those game, it still has accomplished it.
Another great show Ron, quick question I know ES is extreme spread but what does SD stand for mate, keep the great content coming thanks cheers Yogi
Standard deviation
@@JPW951 thanks for the reply mate appreciate it cheers Yogi 👍
@brettstewart8765 sectional density more likely if its next to the B.C SD is standard deviation of velocity and theh wouldn't be able to print that number.
Where do you get the BC statistics such as drop and energy
I've got some gun cases that the latch locks.will they work on a plain.
I think I'll email Ford and ask what the B.C. of my Focus is.
I love my .30-'06's and I think if I was to have to choose just one caliber/ rifle i would be a very bored man. How do I break the bad news to my 6.5X55mm, 257Bob, 250Sav. .25-'06Rem, .280Rem, 308Win, 300Sav, 303Sav, 38-55Win, 32Special, 30-30Win, 35Rem, 270Win, 45-70Gov ect...ect...ect....
You just say to them: "Sorry fellas, but grandpa won out!"...Joking! Joking! 😂
I sure wish I could get a bolt action or single shot 224 valkyrie.
I really like the Valkyrie. It really should have become more popular. There was a Savage 110 in the Valkyrie, but I’m sure they discontinued it. Probably have better luck rebarreling a 6.5 creedmoor to 22 creedmoor, but it’s a lot more of a barrel burner than the Valkyrie.
You can get a Uintah Precision bolt action upper in 24 valk
I PICK THE 7MM-08 AS A VERSATILE CARTRIDGE, BUT THERE ARE NO GRIZZLY OR BROWN BEARS IN ARIZONA!!!
As far as handgun cartridges... the margins are just to small for investment for something new... all the variables of the gun are scaled down so much compared to a rifle that any gain in something different is so insignificant at the ranges used for its not worth any investment. Say at 50 yrds you could go from an 1" drop/delfection to 1/2"... yeah twice as good but does that matter in real world situations? How far do you plan or are acurrate enough to use it? Shooter ability, gun design, ergonomics for specific shooter, recoil, action, trigger, sights and etc are all much bigger factors than the cartridge. There are specialty handhuns that shoot rifle rounds but thier just isnt a market or need worth the invest for a new cartridge
For me its 300 prc for 1500. '06 for 1000. 308 for 500. 300 blk for under 100. All 30 cal, easy for reloading. On the bc I relate it to a john boat vs a canoe, easier to paddle a canoe with the same fat guy doing the paddling.
243 winchester with a 58 grain vmax is a stick of dynamite not very pelt friendly.
When you talk about cougars i think about middke aged to just past middle aged women that prey on young men. ... then i have to remember your book is about hunting.
All rounds are versatile to an innovative shooter. Adjectives in the shooting game are a lot of fun, but honestly offer very little real insight. Clint Smith says something very useful, pick the round and bullet, then trade guns until you find one that shoots it well. If the 06 is versatile it is because the 180 grain load is useful for all North American game, though light for Elk, Bison, Musk Ox and the Big Bears. It can still get the job done.Exactly the opposite of the common idea that all the various weights make it versatile.
The hard case is probably so it cant just be opened by baggage handlers and also more durable for being dropped and banged.
It does Mach 3, and I can't afford anything else that goes that fast. 🤣
BC’s are not BS😊
For most people, they are just as much a marketing term as coriolis effect. In other words, it's a phenomenon but it is largely irrelevant because people aren't taking quarry at 400+ yards in a 35 mph wind storm ON AVERAGE.
There's just so much more meaningful things to pay attention to than a couple of mere inches of drift and drop at the range MOST hunters take game. Same goes for energy and velocity numbers. It's just numbers on paper. All sorts of stories exist where big game was nailed with crazy powerful big impressive numbers numerous times and the game didn't die. It's almost as if the game didn't reach the ballistic chart and agree with the hunter about the fact it should have died.
In my experience, even when it comes hunting the gray ghost known as a blacktail deer in Western Oregon.
Usually I see my deer at in the morning and in the evening there is no crosswind. Maybe that's just in Oregon thing, but I would assume that's kind of nationwide.
Vista Gates 99% of your wind drift issues
Simple, rifles have many different intended targets. Handguns have two.
30-06 150gr @3200 fps copper or lead .. 6.5x55 SE 100gr copper at the same speed or a 95gr at 3600 .
Hunting yes .. target No . The 308 is what you need there . Way more consistent.
There is an old saying that there is no 6 like the 06
There's another old saying "There ain't much that can be fixed for $500 and a 3006".
QUESTION: In Africa, etc. My rifle says .30-06 A.I. but the cartridge head stamp says just .30-06. Problem?
A.I. is Ackley Improved. It's a modified version of the standard casing with a 40° shoulder. You may be able to chamber standard .30-06 in that A.I. chamber, but after you fire it, the case will fire-form to that chamber shape and will not fit in a standard chamber after the fact. I don't recommend fire-forming while hunting, do that sort of thing on a range or where you're in a controlled environment. You have to be careful not to confuse the two cartridges when dealing with one rifle example of each, or dealing with reloading ammunition with the same head-stamp. Also, fire-forming a standard casing may change the overall length of the case. Keep an eye on that.
@@exothermal.sprocket But will they allow me into the country with the head stamp not AI, but the barrel marked .30-06 A.I. ?
@@JohnDavidHays From which country are you leaving and into which country are you entering?
Much cheaper factory bullets compared to magnums much less recoil equal to 300 mags out to say 400 yards when using high bc bullets longer barrel life
Bunnies?
308.. is a versatile rifle. Lever guns to machine guns, hunting, to ar-10s. Etc etc
Cartridge.. pardon me.
@@propertypreparedness6846you are forgiven😅
The 30-06 has also been offered in a lever gun to machine guns to the HCAR.
@calebdean2440 this is true. But short action of a 308 makes commercial semi autos much more prevalent. You can make almost any round fit any rifle if you are going custom. The 308 has the most commercial availability.
@propertypreparedness6846 Where I give the .308 the win for being such a versatile cartridge is its about the maximum amount of energy you can get out of a .30 cal or larger and have still have a pleasant recoil. Even though I think 30-06 is the king of versatile in the hunting world, I dont think it makes a good sport shooting or plinking cartridge. Even if they made a 30-06 AR10, the idea of mag dumping one does not sound pleasant.
No one will load factory 270 with heavies.
Apologies to FranzAntonMesmer, I had left the chat prior to your comment.
Ron have you ever lost a gun while traveling and has never been returned to you. either flying or train
You generally cannot fly with ammo in your rifle case. I have heard stories of ammo being confiscated overseas. So the hunter’s rifle made the trip, but no ammo. I’ve flown several times inside the USA, without any problems other than a jerk from TSA one time. Put an air tag tracker inside your case as it could help with a “lost” gun.
big enough do what you need and no bigger.
@FranzAntonMesmer after thinking about it, maybe availability is also a factor in versatility as well. its not much use if ammo isnt readily available is it? that means, just like everything else, it depends. Great conversation starter to be sure. 6.5 creedmoor checks a whole lot of boxes for me. having "fun" guns chambered in said caliber is another form of versatility. the more i think about it, the less versatility and more specific it all becomes.....
Name some animal, any animal that hasn't been taken with a 30-06. (Probably not a whale) I'll give you that one.
Actually they have been.Saw a Jim Shockly show with 1st Peoples Whale Hunt..recall 06 mentioned.
@@michaelwilson9986 Well there you go. Every animal with a 30-06. Thanks
And I will add further, that some big-zoot crazy powerful magnum .30 cal wouldn't have killed that animal in a way that justifies the ridiculous cost, blast, recoil, gun weight, and flinching.
Chuckhawks wrote an article titled "The Optimum .30 Caliber Rifle Cartridge" where the .30-06 is argued as the "peak optimum" cartridge in the .30 caliber choices on the market, and why. I tend to agree with just about ever point the article makes.
These days, stupid accuracy is easy. WhooTeeWhoo just achieved sub-1/2 MOA with Core-Lokt 150gr .30-06 and a Ruger American (straight out of factory box).
I'm here advocating for LOW-BC bullets, since Ron gives them a horrible rap almost every single video. Tell me, how significant is an inch at 300 yards? A 1/4 drift at 300 yards? A fraction of a second over 300 yards? Less significant than your favorite coffee shop screwing up the drink you ordered.
A versatile cartridge is 30-06, 308 Winchester, 45-70, 30-30 Winchester, 12ga but NOT anything with Creedmore in the cartridge name.
The 06 is not so versatile after all. Takes too much fiddling with sights and loads. The 308 on the other hand covers most of the same range of bullet weights, although, perhaps with fewer options in each range. The 308 is more efficient using powder and, with modern chemistry bullet tech, can be made to eat into the 06 range. 200 grain and up is not that good in the 06 and are best left to the magnums. And I’ve started noticing that the 308 is getting more shelf space than the 06 in some stores. And it’s more likely to be in stock, in spite of its overwhelming popularity. For most people, the 308 is the better choice.
I would argue that the 300 Blackout is the most versatile 30 caliber cartridge
I would argue against that on the sole fact 300 blackout is pretty abysmal at long range
300 blackout, lol. Funny joke sir.
.30-30 is far more versatile than .300BLK.
@@exothermal.sprocket no way 3006 has a better claim than 30-30. 110 supers through 175s In 300blk 2400fps to 1800fps then heavy subs. 30-30 is 110-170 and that's it.
@@bobborlog1677 Numbers numbers numbers. Hang around the Spomer channel long enough and pretty soon you'll be trying to convince the elk, grizzly, moose, and mule deer that they _should have died_ because the spec sheet numbers said so.
No. .30-30 goes to 190gr bullets (Buffalo Bore has them) and they will take Alaskan moose reliably.
Has anyone else had to resubscribe? Maybe meta is pissing with this channel like it has done to others.
What is a "versatile cartridge"? The .308 Winchester is a versatile cartridge.
55 gr to 220 gr is about as versatile as you're going to find
It's true that .30-06 can shoot 55 gr sabots, but yikes...their accuracy and consistency from shot to shot leaves a lot to be desired. But I do agree with your general point. 👍 Cheers.
If you’re going to shoot factory ammo and want to target shoot/long range you’d be better off with a 6.5 creed or 308. The factory match ammo market for 3006 sucks. I love it, but it’s not even close for that and the recoil is excessive and pointless for that use.
In regards to 6.5 Creed, I totally agree with that statement for factory ammo in regards to extreme distance target shooting out to 1,000+ yards for example. However, .308 actually has inferior ballistics in every metric when compared to .30-06 (with the exception of recoil), because .308 is shooting the same projectile with a lower powered cartridge.
However, in the realm of hunting, and shooting at sane distances, modern bullets such as Hornady's 212 gr ELD-X are giving .30-06 excellent capabilities out to 600 yds., with literally the EXACT same wind drift numbers right across the board as 6.5 Creed shooting 143 gr ELD-X (using Hornady's ballistics calculator, have a look and see). This is due to the 212 gr bullet's even higher BC of .663 compared to the 6.5 Creed's 143 gr ELD-X bullet with its BC of .625. Plus, the 212 gr .30-06 delivers energy and velocity numbers at those distances that the 6.5 Creed can only dream of.
If I were target shooting at extreme distances, I'd totally go with a 6.5 Creed (or several other rounds) over .30-06, but for hunting, I'll take .30-06 with modern higher BC bullets every time. I don't say this to disparage 6.5 Creed at all, but with today's higher BC bullets, .30-06 is not the same round that grandpa shot back in the day. Cheers.
@@Plumcraziness this is why I said “factory ammo”
3006 factory match ammo options are, for lack of words, terrible compared to 308 or 6.5 creed.
I own all these cartridges, and while I think the 212 is too much for the 06’ case most of the time and it would be better with a 180 hybrid or a 200eldx or something your point that it can really be open end up is surely true.
However for hunting I no longer care so much about diameter and weight. I haven’t personally seen it matter too much. I think we overhype big bullets on game, not that I don’t like them I’ve shot a lot of game with 215 hybrids.
The average hunter imo would be best off getting a 308 or 6.5 and a few cases of affordable hornady or norma match and practicing more instead of shooting bigger cartridges with more recoil.
One of the best things about 3006 is you can find brass so cheap. Years ago an older gentleman sold me like 800 pieces for 50$ and I’m still using them
@@J_Un1t Ah, I see what you mean now in regards to factory match-only ammo in .30-06. Yeah, in that case I do agree that it is lacking compared to what is available in .308. Even though the ballistics would be better with .30-06, factory match ammo is just not available like it is in .308. Too bad. It should be. Perhaps one day.
I'd also add that if someone prefers shooting with semi-auto that I do feel .308 makes more sense for that, but I am a bolt-action hunter kind of guy.
As far as the 212 gr ELD-X, I didn't mean to imply that heavier is better. I just mentioned that particular bullet to illustrate what .30-06 is capable of. 🙂 Sadly, I just get the feeling that some people these days think that .30-06 is somehow "old" and "irrelevant" now. However, with modern components it's even more capable and relevant than its ever been.
I also do agree that bigger isn't always better for what is necessary to take down big game. There are instances where bigger could be better, but with today's modern bullets, there are choices in 180 gr that are more than capable of dropping large game like elk, moose and black bears. Especially with mono metal bullets like Barnes TTSX, which has excellent penetration and controlled expansion at even lighter grain weights.
That's awesome about the 800 .30-06 cases you got for $50 though! If you ever find another offer like that and you have no use for them, just let me know! 😂
Cheers.
Cougars!? I don’t tune in for that kind of filth. Oh wait, you mean mountain lions, never mind.
Clearly the .375 Cheytac is the most versatile cartridge.
Just HAND LOAD. Doyou drive a car, or take a uber everywhere? --- there is a reason to hand load! (Stop making excuses).
Really not necessary to read endless babble from either knuckle head wannabees or fake e-mails. Seriously, either way it's very off-putting.