Buyer Beware - Used Gun Nightmare
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2023
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! Used firearms. Sometimes you get a great buy and sometimes you get a lemon. And today we might just have someone here who's got himself a lemon. Let's stay tuned and see if we can't find out how to buy a used rifle online, sight unseen. This episode of Ron Summer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. 
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If the gunsmith fired the rifle without cleaning out the cutting fluid and metal chips, I'd start by finding a new gunsmith!
Exactly! What a joke. "Oh I was in a hurry, I wanna go shoot it, I'll clean it later." After machining the chamber! Really? Ron's guest here seems like a nice guy, but has more dollars than sense. How used was that split case? Factory loads worked fine, and didn't stick. Have a clue. Just a guess, but maybe look really close at the inscription of the serial numbers on the bolt and action. The bolt never even shows up in the video.....................................huh.
He said he was an Aussie. Nuff said.
Yeah sounds like the gun Smith needs to stop and repay this guy
@@billspalding4373he does mention this later in the video that the serials did match on both the bolt and receiver and had actually confirmed this with the seller before it ever shipped... I agree with your point though in the hand load suspicions and getting a new Smith that won't shotgun steel shards down the bore on him like that SMH
G g
If someone was demanding a ton from me as a seller, I'd simply pass on them. They'll probably be unhappy about something. 10% of people will create 90% of your issues, and better to pre-identify them and get them to move along. Don't get dollar signs in the eyes. Just like a buyer should move on when there's red flags, so should a seller.
Very well said
ABSOLUTELY!! I’ve run into high demand buyers that send up red flags! I hate when someone calls you back after a sale and is nitpicking everything about it! Even if you answered all their questions with had detailed pics and description. I’ve learned the same lesson on passing up buyers .
I would be annoyed, if someone calls me again and again asking the same questions, take it or leave it.
Good evening gentlemen. I have been loading for the 300 magnums of every kind for 53 years and my suggestion to the mod 70 in 300 H & H is do not try to load down for the H&H. My experience shows me that the round can and sounds like has built excessive pressure and swelled the case hence the difficulty extracting the case. My second reason for this theory is the firing of the factory ammunition with no apparent problem. I’m convinced it’s the ammo and not the gun. Nothing was done wrong other than just not enough powder to fill the area in the case and when the primer discharges the flame ignites more surface area of powder producing a faster discharge of the powder hence a higher pressure and your stuck case. Check the primer face and see if it’s not flat. The belted magnum cases are not designed to load down, I never load a belted magnum round with less than 86% of the case capacity. Bullet weight, style, and seating depth needs to be taken into consideration too as well as the powder. The recoil of the 300 H &H is not that severe. I understand the love of the round, I shoot the 300 Winchester and the 264 Winchester magnums and once you do you will understand why we shoot them. I have a pet 300 loading that at 500 yds is still traveling near 2300 fps and 2200 fl s of energy which is more than the 243 100 gr bullets have at the muzzle. The 7 mm Rem mag is the 264 necked out of 284.
Anything the 7 mm Rem mag can do the 300 Win mag can do better. Get your bullet bc over .610 and the 300 mags will bring home the back strap every time you pull the trigger.
Again load your H & H with a minimum of 85% case capacity and you will not have a problem, the functioning factory ammunition producing the sun moa results tells me you get your seating depth right and tune the powder and leave the barrel alone because you have a shooter. The headspace problem concerns me, did the factory ammunition function before the headspace issue was changed?
What brass did you reload and had it been trimmed? Several unanswered questions but keep the case capacity 85% plus and I don’t think you will have this problem again. Good luck Gentlemen!
Phil
Sounds like you understand reloading...better than most
I have read about this to that very light loads where powder in a case that is under 50% can detonate because the primer instantly ignites the entire charge and cause a very dangerous pressure spike. I remember pictures of a revolver cylinder blown apart and top strap of revolver blown off, I think it was .38 special with under 50% powder space used.
Thank you very much.Sir!
My first thought also. Possible over pressure due to under loading. Less powder isn't always better. 2nd is the condition of that batch of powder.
Came here to say this, but you said it much better than I could have. Good job.
Two big thumbs-up. Most of my firearms I buy used. This video hits that nail on the head. The primary lesson: even when dealing with a stand-up seller and asking all the right questions, the result may well not fit your expectations.
OK if the headspace was actually one eighth short then someone has set the barrel back about two threads. it is inconceivable that whoever did this didn't finish the job by doing the chamber work. If this is what happened the person who did the smithing had the ability to do the hard part so why didn't he finish the job after doing the "hard part". This may explain why the barrel was full length glass bedded because the rear sight bulge would have required some adjustment to the barrel channel and this would have been hidden by a glass bed job. if the throat is worn as badly as Ron says this may be the reason for turning the barrel back, chasing the lands, so to speak.
My thoughts, exactly. I suspect someone was trying to make a 300 win mag out of a 300 H&H by setting the barrel back seeing as the parent cartridge for the 300 Win Mag is the 300 H&H cartridge.
I'm no pro, but I think Kruger is spot on in his assessment. Over the year's I've been took a couple of times. As of recent I came to own a rifle with rough machine work on the bolt face. Rings from milling enough to not imprint Hornady brass or noticeable at a glance, but Lapua brass shows it.
Just something I haven't ran into over the year's.
Very good thought, but does not explain the deformation/separation at the neck, which is virtually unheard of. Also there is the gap or ring Ron saw with the borescope. I know it's a longshot, but I really wonder if this rifle does not have a sleeved chamber. Maybe a loose sleeve shifted back and became rusted in that position.
I jumped in here to write the exact same thing. Kruger nailed it in my opinion. I would probably buy a quality synthetic stock for it.
“There is a sucker born every minute…..and 2 to take him” ( PT Barnim)
Oh yeah. I would love to see this issue solved and to see y’all shoot it. Great content as always, Ron!
What a great, likable gentleman. He could write a short story with this experience. Wish you the best, Sir!
Ron Spomer? He has, many!
Those are old school humans. The ones that knew what gender they were.
Most of mine are purchased as used rifles. Worked 5 years in a gun shop in Europe. Have a C&R, and mainly work with a few reputable large dealers. My preferred firearms are military surplus or fixer uppers, and not been disappointed with any of them.
I think that makes a big difference: I love C&R fixer-uppers as well, I don't really go into it with high expectations, and I"m rarely disappointed.
This poor fellow had a sort of dream gun he was looking for, for many years, and finally got it, paying the premium for it, only to find out it wasn't what he was hoping for - buyer's remorse seems to be far more likely to come with those higher expectations!
On the other hand, you're probably far more likely to find a real gem that way, too - I'm fond of my C&R stuff and always get my money's worth in fun from it, but can't really consider any of it to be the stuff that dreams are made of.
And on the gripping hand, you're also more likely to find those pristine "safe queens" that you've invested too much into to ever fire it or otherwise expose it to the real world, and it's that much more frustrating when Bubba has been all over that safe queen first, leaving her as high-maintenance damaged goods you can never really bring yourself to touch for a variety of mostly unfortunate reasons....
I think that, for my money, the lower-budget stuff is good enough without all the hassle, but when the dream gun lives up to expectations, I bet it's really something, so more power to those who like that end of the market!
Not that I actually sell my guns, but if I did, there is no way I would give any real guarantee. Even if the gun is in excellent condition, one of Bubbas hot reloads could damage it. They could swap out broken parts on their own rifle and say it doesn’t work. I buy on gunbroker often and practically no seller has a guarantee that survives the first trigger pull and many won’t even admit to the function of the rifle at all. That being said, I would know the condition before it was sold, so I would be pretty suspicious if they told me it was broken. Obviously, this guy doesn’t appear to be the type that would do that, but there are many that will.
Sorry to hear of these problems. Steve is definitely a gentleman for the way he is handling this problem.
Pro Tip: Make no modifications to a firearm until you’ve gone to the range and fired a few rounds through it, just to make sure it works. Don’t put on new sights, new scope, don’t modify the stock, trigger.
I’m surprised he modified the stock before test-firing it. I would not put a new sound system in a used car before taking it for a test drive and making sure the engine, transmission, power train, and wheels all at least function. Nor put new tuners, frets, bridge, or repair the body on a used electric guitar before at least playing it for a few minutes to confirm the pickups work, signal gets all the way to the amp, and the neck isn’t warped (or broken).
Best of luck to Steve as he works on what is now a project rifle.
I bought a Winchester model 52 from a local gun shop because I was super excited and didn’t realize the stock had been cut down. I’m 6’3” and when I got to the range I suddenly realized what I’d done. It turns out the previous owner was a 5’2” petite woman. I learned to always check the length of pull. Thank God I found a 5’3” guy who wanted that gun for the length of pull.
Lol
Why not just put a new larger recoil pad on it?
@@WayStedYou I needed a good 3” and a fellow shooter wanted the gun so I took the Unertl target scope off it and got all my money back plus a nice scope. I was happy and he was happy. I own a number of .22 target rifles so not a big deal.
How did you not check the pull before getting clear out to the range? Just leave the chamber open before bringing it to your shoulder.
@@TonyM1961 like I said in my original comment, I was really excited to find a Winchester model 52 target rifle with a vintage target scope. I immediately told the shop owner to put my name on it and I began making payments. When I took it to the range was the 1st time I actually shouldered it. It was a lesson to always check the guns I’m buying closely without getting too excited.
I traded into a 4" S&W 629 .44mag and discovered the original owner tried scamming me. The internals looked like someone tried doing an action job with a bastard file and the hammer pivot pin was sheared off the frame!
I called the guy I traded with and tried talking to him about it. He tried playing it off so I just asked him if he was happy with what I sent him and he excitedly said "yes"! I told him I'm not happy with the POS he sent me. He finally agreed that I send it back to S&W and he would pay for the repairs. It all worked out in the end, but not the way he originally wanted it to.
Alaska 1976. Purchased 4" S&W 29 from a transient. Seller had shot near proof handloads and the gun was compromised (as I discovered soon after purchase). From that time on the only used firearm I will purchase is from an individual or shop known to me.
My grandfather was making a 1903 into his dear rifle and cut the stock shorter than he liked .. so he added a 1/4 Aluminum spacer (in the white) and hard rubber recoil pad.. it looks nice and that he did it makes me like it for its ingenuity
The only used rifles I've ever bought are military surplus & all bought knowing they were a pig in a poke.
I guess being left handed limits choice but anything I ever looked at was 'not as described' in the advert/website, so all four of my bolt actions have been new from the manufacturer(in my case one CZ & three Schultz & Larsen)
I've not been disappointed.
That Steve is knowledgeable enough to recognize and attempt to resolve issues is a testament to him. I think Ron Spomer is tops and getting better. Thank you.
Here in canada there are a few online sites that used guns are posted on for private sale and one in particular is very regulated and monitored by the mediators of the site and very very rarely will you ended up with anything less then what you paid for. I have been buying, selling and trading guns online sight unseen for a while now and maybe it’s some luck but iv never had a real issue with someone trying to pull a fast one or just not knowing they are selling something that’s not what they think it is. One big aspect of the process is being able to read someone’s character and or mannerisms which was outline in this episode with asking several questions repeatedly at different times to see if the answers line up. Great episode! Cheers from Canada eh 🍻🇨🇦👍🏻
Ron, Steve is such a gentleman by not casting any dispersions on the seller. When he said the seller may have sent him the wrong rifle, that was enough for me. I am not sure if the smithy did fire the gun at all, again no dispersions on him. Great content and thank you Steve for sharing a good sensible conversation. Hope it ends in a great shooter for you.
Never buy a gun you can’t put your hands in first is rule number #1 in used guns! 60+ years collecting has thought me that rule!
'aspersions' - throwing insults.
@@majorlaff8682 Thank you for the correction. My mind was in the right place but not my vocabulary.😃
@@user-md2ty5nv9d Thank you for your 'thank you'. Many people get upset when I give them free help.
@@edwardabrams4972yeah that’s me too. I’ve even been kinda burned by a few used purchases when I did lay my hands on it. Online is only new purchases for me.
I sold several rifles in my time and in order to put a buyer at ease I would do as many photos as possible of various parts. For Savage 99 rifles, I would remove the stock and took a photo of internal parts so the potential buyer wouldn't have to guess. Once I even did a short video of Husqvarna rifle I was selling, talked about things I would like to know when buying one for myself and I sent it to the buyer. Never any problems with anybody and a lot of happy buyers who got exactly what they were paying for. I am surprised how some people expect to sell the product with only one grainy photo and a short description "shoots great". I know not everybody is a good salesman but as a buyer I would ask the seller to make a short presentation of the rifle he is selling and send it to me. Everybody has a smartphone these days so this is not a problem. If the seller is not willing to spend 5 minutes on this he is not going to be getting my hard earned cash.
You have class
@@bobl2833 Thank you. It is much easier to spend extra 5-10 minutes on presentation then hours on justification, returns, refunds etc.etc.
I have bought many pre64’s over the years and I give them as gifts to my friends that through no fault of their own can’t afford one but have been wanting one for there whole life! I bought one awhile back that had normal light wear but the barrel inside was like new and still showed the tool marks! I always do the go and no go chamber check! I bought the gun for $800. I also bought a pre64 that I payed $400. For that needed a barrel and reblued and the stock refinished but I knew all that before I bought the gun. If you buy the gun cheap enough then doing a barrel isn’t going to hurt you! I bought a Browning A Bolt awhile back thAt looked new on the outside but needed a barrel so I gave just enough that a new barrel didn’t hurt the sale! Is does help if you have the best gunsmith in the whole state doing your work at cost and sending him lots of customers and doing all your barrels, stocks, brakes in his spare time!
What a gent you are. Man do I need a friend like you.
@@take1onethere out there you just have to look! Most of the time we are old timers just looking for a fellow hunter to share our knowledge and time with!
@@edwardabrams4972 I find you guys pretty frequently. I have had great conversations with several guys at public ranges. I'm ususaly there to work up a load or sight something in and that gets put on the back burner for conversations and insights. I wish I didn't live 2 hrs from the closest outdoor range because I'm not sure which I'm happier to do, shoot or talk to people about shooting.
We had that same issue on an Elk hunt in Co. My buddy brought his Rem.700 in 338 win mag and Rem.700 in .280 Rem.We just ran a clean patch down the barrel,wiped the outsides of the rifles down and re-installed the bolts. Next a.m. on the Mtn it was time to load up and his bolt wouldn’t close.He had accidentally swapped the bolts out the night before.We both used my .30-.338 that a.m. but never saw anything worth shooting.
We learned a HUGE LESSON on that trip.
When I bought online for my gun shop it was just as you described. My rule was don't pay an amount that will hurt the shop. We had to make a profit on each sale. The rent, light bills and payroll all had to be paid. I walked away from many guns that were questionable. The time it takes to vet a gun purchase is also a cost to the shop. When our customers walked in with a gun for sale I would tell them they will probably make more money posting a note on the gun club bulletin board. I would be happy doing the transfer with my FFL for a fee. It was fun and a good business. Now I am retired. The new owners are doing a great job.
Sounds like a new barrel is coming.
😂😂 I remember that full length bedding craze. All the magazines had articles showing you how to do it. They made it sound like you weren't a serious shooter if you didn't do it. 😂😂😂
One takeaway from this experience, it's a hell of a story to tell, once its straightened out.
A great interview with Ron.and Steve, who both only wants to help fellow shooters... Excellent work and am looking forward to Part 2
I'd refuse to sell to a guy that tried to do what is being proposed in this video every time. Not because I'm trying to scam somebody, but because you know he's going to find something to cry about and he'll want his money back after the agreed upon inspection period. Don't fall in love, be objective when you are evaluating the gun, and if you made a mistake you've got to own it like a big boy.
Great video! Looking forward to the follow up piece on this one. I didn’t realize how blessed I’ve been with buying old rifles.
Seller offered to replace the rifle.. once you pass up that offer its ur baby
I probably wouldn't have sold this guy the rifle. If you want a warranty or real guarantee you have to buy new. All I buy is used rifles and there's always a risk of it not working, something being broken or even missing. You have to remember that firearms are machines and they break and they wear out.
I have bought many used guns from a local pawnbroker who has 3 shops in the area. Most of them have been handguns, but I have bought several new & used rifles from them too and I haven't had a lemon yet, although I have bought wind instruments from them that needed lots of work. Apparently, they know guns better than horns.
Excellent episode, thank you! Looking forward to follow-ups.
i wouldn't sell this dude nothing
Been collecting 60+ years and buying used is what I do! Almost never buy new! It’s just like buying a used car! You have to know what to look for or your just taking a roll of the dice! It takes years to know all the things to look for and even then you can get ripped off. There is some super good buys out there and some really pieces of junk! Live and learn takes time and mistakes!
New guns almost always disappoint me. I like the old ones.
I really enjoyed this one Ron. I admire your friend and his positive attitude as well. I've been buying and trading firearms for 45 years and have only been burned a couple of times but it does sting. I hope everything works out for the gentleman and hope to see a video of that rifle shooting as it should.
Sometimes you get a good buy, and sometimes you get a goodbye
I’ve been extremely lucky with buying used firearms.
I have a 30-30 lever action rifle that looks like new but is well over 30 years old, I believe it was a gun safe Queen.
I have a cheap tactical 12 gauge pump shotgun but has been a great tool for training and home defense.
I bought one of my favorite 45acp pistols used for a great price and it has been a beast, it’s never given me a pause to mistrust it, perfect reliability, no matter what type or style of ammunition I have used.
One of my favorite concealed carry pistols has been a perfect example of reliability and I got it used.
Yeah I've got one that's similar but it's a Winchester 1200 30-in vent rib it's only had maybe 60 shells run through it with three chokes
Pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed this format 😃 Great interview, great information.
On my 03-A3 Springfield, there is a safe way to "feed-check" reloads. When you close the bolt, there is a button that is depressed, permitting the bolt to go into battery. With the bolt withdrawn, press this button and unscrew the firing pin assembly and withdraw it from the bolt. Without the firing pin, you can safely cycle all the cartridges from the magazine to the chamber and then eject each cartridge.
If you can remove the firing pin from the Model 70, this is the way to safely "function-check" your reloads at home.
Great video! After seeing this I can guarantee I will test fire any used firearm purchase before tearing apart to refinish. Glad it worked out in the end.
One thing I have found in my 70 years on this rock (60 years of which as a shooter). "NEVER BUY USED"!!! Plain and simple...
I bougth a 22-250 used.
An overbore caliber that may be a gamble to buy with a history. But it looked brand new. And as always the seller informed me that the previous owner had not fired many shoots with it. Well words are cheap i figured.
But then i saw the stock was firmly making contact with the barrel on the left side for about 4 inches. That would explain why the last owner wasnt happy with the rifle, and it might be fixable.
And i was going to get a new stock anyway.
New stock with free floated barrel , lapua brass v-max bullets.
All my reloads shot excellent.
Details matter when you buy used rifles.
Great content as always Ron, looking forward to the final follow up. Love your channel
Could the rifle have been previously wildcatted to a .300fbr (fuddbuster) and the specs lost ? You find the same kind of oddball stuff with collector/performance cars also. Sorry for your troubles. Interesting video Sirs.
Yes please make a follow up video, I'm fairly new to these older model firearms like this and appreciate this very important information.
I love fixing things and getting them running😮😮😮.....great video......cant wait for the next video
The problem with the Pre 64 M-70s in 300 H+H is that so many of them have been buggered up that to find a clean one that is not buggered up. It can be a crap shoot at times. I had the same problem with a 318 WR that I bought in the Mid-1990s I ended up having Lon Paul rebuild the rifle- It happens when you buy sight unseen. As much as I want a 300 H+H myself I am of the opinion that I will just have Parkwest or Griffin and Howe build me one. Yes, I will pay a lot but not have none of the heartache and frustration. Griffin and Howe got one in 300 H+H that is as clean as a rifle from 1958 can be and well Griffin and Howe has a reputation beyond approach. A lot of 300 H+H's have been reammed out to chamber the 300 Weatherby Magnum. Do this stuff long enough and yeah you will get burned. It's just the nature of the hobby. The problem is that far too often people are less than truthful about things. When he said I think I mailed you the wrong gun, that would have been it for me. Just saying. Now I am interested to see how the issue is going to be resolved and then how it shoots. I myself is not tied to sub moa. If it shoots consistent 2 inch groups or a little better with 200 gr Nosler Partitions, I would take it to African in a heartbeat.
Love the story and love the chambering. 300 h&h is a favorite for sure. Looking forward to your follow up video.
I like this!! Need to do more of these gunsmithing, guns gone wrong deals. Man I have that luck with gun purchases
Geat video Ron. Once he gets his problems ironed out he'll have one hell of a nice rifle. Real piece of history
EXCELLENT! Looking forward to the follow up.
I hope all issues are solved in this situation. I used to drag race motorcycles and it’s the same issue there. You get so enamored by a project you lose sight of where all the gremlins are coming from. All hobbies are the same when you rely on equipment to perform a task.
This Gentleman should seek another gunsmith .
Hopefully he at least cleaned the BORE before test firing. But yeah... if he thought chambering to correct headspace was a tricky operation.
Wow that's a really intriguing story and I am looking forward to seeing the outcome! Hopefully the rifle will turn out great and exceed his expectations. At least he has a great story either way.
Rebarrel the dude. 😊 Funny that the chamber was 1/8 inch short. That doesn’t happen by accident. Has the barrel been shortened and retreaded? That would set it back in the stock explaining the glass bedding. It’s a shooter so rebarrel, rechamber and restock it. Make it like Jack O’Connor would do it.
We're frequently going on the honesty and good faith of our fellow man. Treat everyone as you wish you were treated. Good fortune to all.
This was an excellent training video for me. Thank you!
This is why my last 4 used guns were Savage rifles. There is no part that can’t be replaced .
Great show Ron!
As several previous posts have brought up get a chamber cast made to measure. I would also check bore diameter with pin gauges if chamber cast was not long enough to measure that deep.
Great guest. Love how he told the story
Thank You Gentlemen, It's a Great subject and will say from my experience to date, I have had several dozens of purchases over the years ,G.B. and the people who list there have Never let me down! I have even sent my own firearm to someone and they sent me what I traded for after he saw and approved my Trade. For me a Trustworthy Auction sight but Always do diligent investigation!
Wow I am intrigued cannot wait to see the end results. God bless and stay safe
After hearing this story,I have to be thankful because I've bought 4 or 5 guns on line and I've always been more than satisfied with my purchase several times getting a far better rifle than I would have expected . One in fact, a M1 Carbine in exceptional unmolested condition with matching part numbers ..but it was pure luck as I never thought to ask all the questions brought out here. I'm awaiting a nice bolt action to arrive as I speak..let's hope my luck holds.
Dude, I would never sell that guy a gun. Fricken full on interrogation. I'd have quit responding to him VERY early on. Lord
model 70 , my first and favorite deer rifle . Bolt action teaches a young hunter to wait for his shot and shoot acuratley .
Sixty years still used every season .
Once I bought a 7mm Mauser. I knew it wasn’t “pristine “ but it keyholed bullets at 50 yards. I bought it cheap and sold it cheap telling the buyer it’s problems. I bought from an auction a Savage 99. I just can’t seem to get it to where it feels and shoots good. A project. I have bought several from a website or two and had great luck. Thanks for this vide.
I understand the "Good Bones" idea, but, there has to come a time when the project becomes a money pit. Great show btw.
I suppose it boils down to how much does a person want to spend on it to make it right. If it’s a case of he’s going to make it work however, then have at it. I get that he may end up with more invested than what it’s worth then again if he never plans to sell it then what’s the big deal right?
True, but with a gun like that, the point where it becomes a money pit is fairly high, vs something more basic and mass produced like all these newer designs that are practically throw-aways. For example, E. R. Shaw will put a good barrel on most classic design rifles for reasonable costs. They'll even match your profile.
Sounds like he was using fire formed brass from another rifle.
Possibly. If he hwas using full length sizing dies though it should have taken care of the problem you would think. It all depends on how far down the case that the die goes down while sizing.
He full length resized, but belted cases don't get squeezed down just ahead of the belt, so a previously fired case could be too tight in that area.
9/8/23 300 H&H
I agree with Phil's commet 85% powder capacity is needed.
I hunted and loaded for the 300 H&H for over 30 years.
In hand loading always check your first round to see if it chambers in a new rifle to you.
SAMI spec is fine on paper BUT a chamber cast is a must.
Thanks for a good show
Caleb
The gunsmith not cleaning out the rifle before shooting would worry me. I wouldn’t go back to that “gunsmith”.
Agreed!
And it sounds like he found reaming the chamber to correct headspace to be intimidating?
And he never noticed the bore was worn out and commented on it in view of the shallow chambering? I can see that kind stuff EASY with my bare eyeballs!
11:30 "when you fall in love with something....... you lose perspective" True for guns and women. It's only later you see the flaws you first ignored or rationalized away.
Great story. My sympathies Steve and hope the story has happy ended. I recently bought a rifle online and sight on seen. The transaction went flawless. The rifle was fantastic and a bargain. But I was super nervous.
Thanks for sharing your story and wisdom.
wow lots of info there, Thank you guys!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Ron.
Nice thick recoil pad ... I like!
I bought a 375 JDJ Contender carbine, (Super 16") with a [Dmned] brake.. Fired 3 shots.
The first shot told me everything I needed to know. Second shot was just to confirm the unbelievable experience. 3rd shot was just because punishment from the first 2 were ... un-freakin'-be-liev-able. Whacked $50 off my purchase price, wrote up the experience for the next guy, and sold it to a fellow as happy as I had been ... or more so ... and he sailed off in happy pursuit of the Rocky Mountain Elk.
I must have been fortunate for the most part, I did buy some garbage but surprisingly not very much when I consider between my surplus and used most of my guns were second hand,looking forward to see you shoot it
Most of my guns have come from gunbroker, all but 2 of them were solid purchases. Those 2 were projects that I knew were in bad shape before I got them, and got them on the cheap, like 12 dollars cheap. One needs a new barrel, and one needs a whole restoration, but for a double barrel from 53, not a bad deal.
Don't buy a non returnable firearm
If you going to “refinish” the stock, it was the perfect gun to get. An actual Gunsmith would determine in a $50 - $100 inspection / checkover headspace feed function, safe condition, test fire with factory ammo. Unless this rifle was scammed with a non-professional screwing on a take-off barrel ( very unlikely), this rifle was as perfect as it was the day it left the factory. You bought a $500 cut stock, glass bedded M70 . What’s the big deal? Your handloads caused the bolt not closing and your hack tinkerer lied and said it was headspace and then he damaged the chamber.
I have been lucky buying online, every gun I bought was a work in progress and I knew they needed work! One High Standard Supermatic I got was from a guy that liked to shoot but he knew nothing about the mechanics or how they function I got it cheap because he said it was broken, he said he fired it once and it didn't cycle. When I got it a casing was stuck in the chamber and it was filthy, I used a cleaning rod to drive out the case then cleaned and oiled it and now it is flawless and worth at least 4 times what I paid for it!
As a military surplus collector, I have probably 250 guns that are not only used, but over a century old. I have videos on most of them.
Yes, many of them are just for presentation and have worn out barrels or non functional actions. Though they are all beautiful to me.
Nice collection! I've got a couple dozen mil-surp guns, I was never really picky in shopping for them other than making sure they at least looked like they were taken care of, and I've been pretty happy with them, the only complaints over the years were with a CZ-52 with a broken magazine, and a Yugo SKS that slam-fired when I took it out to shoot for the first time because of a bent firing pin... both problems were easy fixes, fortunately, but it seems like those old Eastern European military guns were kinda built to take a lickin' and keep tickin' in the hands of shooters and armorers who really weren't invested in taking care of them.
So as long as Bubba didn't randomly take a hacksaw and Dremel to the gun before you got to it, or leave it soaking in a pool of rusty salt water in the floorboard of his pickup truck for a couple years in the swamps of Louisiana, you're probably either going to get a surplus gun that is at least minimally capable of putting bullets to paper with a reasonable degree of Eastern European battlefield accuracy, or you have something that's at least easy enough to beat back into shape with a couple kicks and maybe one or two easy-to-find spare parts, aftermarket replacements, or even a few workshop scraps swept up from the floor under your workbench!
With that caveat about Bubba in mind, though, I DID have a coworker about 15 or 20 years ago who found a used Mosin-Nagant somewhere that was the most pitiful, beat-looking thing I ever did see: the stock was so rotten that the action and barrel literally rattled and shook within the stock while little bits and pieces would fall out, and the whole thing was covered with a sticky black slime that looked like some suspicious mix of used motor oil, Cosmoline, ashes, mud, and sand. And, Bubba had applied an enthusiastic amount of bailing wire, two-part epoxy, and duct tape to keep the whole thing together, and the old hack saw to remove a few bits he apparently couldn't find a use for, like barrel bands, trigger guards, butt plates, and iron-sights. Believe it or not, that Mosin-Nagant still worked, but if my coworker paid $20 for that poor thing, it was too much. Those old commie guns were really amazing for what they were, extremely forgiving of abuse and neglect, but wow, what a mess!
Good lord. I am in awe of this man's deductive skills, but I would have told him never mind after 2 or 3 questions. I don't have all day to be cross examined, I'm just trying to clean out my closet.
This is such a great story. I love this.
What powder was used for the reloads? Some powders have a warning not to reduce more than 10% from recommended maximum load, reducing more than 10% could cause excessive pressure. Don't know if this is possible in this case or issues with the rifle.
very comprehensive questioning and planning.
The best place to start is buy from your local shop, but the biggest thing is even before that build a good relationship with them. Find out what they handle and how they do things. Then you can look at the gun with them, in many cases they should have their gunsmith look at a gun first before throwing it on the shelf, and one thing is they often know the guys who sold the gun to them and how the gun was handled and how well it was cared for. You might find some diamonds in the rough, but I can sure tell you there are a lot of risk factors in involved when you buy from a private seller and sometimes no amount of research can help you.
One of the good things about dealing with your local shop is that those guys live down the street from you, they go to church with you, their kids go to school with your kids, they might even be related to you: it's no guarantee that they'll be good at their job and care about upholding a good reputation with you and the others in their community, but their success would, in a perfect world, depend on protecting their reputation by doing the job right and giving the customers their money's worth.
Great story, isn't it the way it sometimes goes, sorry the buyer had to go through all that.
Saying the gunsmith is Australian was all the description needed for imagining the words used 😂
Just a thought, I had a similar experience once with the case cracking . It was a gun that my cousin gave me so I knew the gun was sound. Once I cleared the cracked case I examined the gun and couldn't see anything obvious. I have fired the gun many times since then and it's never happened again. Just saying be safe and have the gun checked out again but it is possible that you had a defective brass.
For headspace and chambering issues like I had in an old Remington 788 in 22-250, I took it back to Remington, I live about an hour away from llion, they checked it out and set the barrel back and rechambered it. Shot like a house afire. Averaged about 1/2 moa with most loads, select hand loads 3/8 moa.
Perhaps this rifle needs the same. This process will help fix the throat area and sharpen the rifling just ahead of the throat. All things that can help accuracy.
Thanks for the heads up.
I definitely want to see the resolution to this problem.
Awesome video Ron. This is probably my favorite one that you have done.
I would never go back to that gunsmith.
wow 😮
Great topic and discussion.
Thanks
I have a precision rifle in .308. Got it used as a Remington 700 AAC SD... restocked it, put a good trigger in it, new bottom metal, great scope... and it was very accurate, but the brass had a hard time extracting. The brass wasn't turning at all, and it was a hard pull to get it out. Not natural. The brass itself has a line gauged down it, lengthwise, from the shoulder to about 4/5 down to the base. I had apartment at the time, not a garage... so I got an electric drill, and very fine sand paper, and polished the inside of the chamber with some oil until it was smooth, I kept looking at the chamber every few turns and finally stopped when I couldn't see the line any more.. Then I went to shoot it, to see how much the new brass would be larger than the old brass... Turns out it was not noticeable. The rifle was even more accurate, and the brass extracted effortlessly with a good seal around the case neck after each shot. I didn't know if I would have to re-barrel it or not, so I was pleasantly surprised.
Your statement that you lived in an apartment at the time brought a chuckle from me. When my girlfriend moved in, I had a 10" vice bolted to my desk in the living room with numerous tools and parts everywhere, needless to say it clashed with her new home furnishings,
Ah, my college days! I lived in Married Housing with my new wife and had C clamped RCBS reloader, remounted to our kitchen table. When threw out of the kitchen, I bolted to the top shelf of a heavy book case, which after long use tore a 'monster chomp' section out of it! We kept that book case for several years with my wife putting a doily over it. We had a good laugh when we trashed it years later.
Thank you. Very good information.
When you said the stock I was thinking it was one of those rifles that had one of the salt cured stocks and I started to say OH NO! That's what I get for jumping to conclusions. LOL.
The salt stocks were on the Browning rifles not the Winchester rifles!
The gunsmith reamed out the chamber, the case appears to have gone forward in the chamber, and the neck is getting caught in the throat like a case that is to long and needs trimming, and the bullet was getting jammed with the interference of the case that would explain the high pressure and the stuck bolt, that is what comes to my mind with this. Need to do a chamber cast and go from there. The Gunsmith should have done that in the first place before reaming it out. Then you would have got a true indication of what is wrong.
I'm wondering if this is some fly-by-night sleeved chamber job. And the sleeve came loose.
@@Fuzzybeanerizer Who knows any thing is possible it seems with this particular rifle, Through the roof high pressure with a starting load, something is way out with this rifle..