Apostolic ministry today
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- Apostolic ministry today
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As we continue to delve into definitions and standards for prophets and apostles. Since these positions are open to abuse. I was moved to share this: “If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” Zero. (1 Corinthians 13:2)
Amen
Amen. I’ve met many who claim to have the gift of prophecy, yet were self righteous, vindictive, and arrogant. Not loving at all.
The Sin Unto Death 1 John 5:16 is not to follow the supreme command of love in Mark 12:39-31.
Jeremiah 7 defines them with the Sin Unto Death 1 John 5:16
Elijah the Prophet
Great comment @assyrianrelief It's also worth paying very close attention to "who" Christ says, "I never knew you, depart from me you workers of iniquity."
Funny how ALL the Gifts FROM GOD, were meant to glorify GOD and build up and strengthen the body to glorify GOD and get people saved.
Prophets and apostles are still valid today yet ever since these two have been re- recognized the past 40 yrs the Church is quickly degenerating; becoming less potent and more divided and confused. An authentic apostle/prophet is easily discernable by their consistent testimony of Jesus with their spiritual authority, words and humility with no need to be recognized as such.
Larry made a great point about character as a prerequisite to having leadership. I was taught that as you make yourself available to serve, you’ll discover your gifting. Discover your gifting and you’ll receive authority and anointing from our Head, the Lord Jesus. But it all starts will a willingness to serve. People will recognize your gift/position and you won’t have to claim a “title”, one will be conferred on you by the people.
Amen! I loved Larry’s emphasis on having a servants heart! ❤️🔥
@@assyrianrelief How did you come up with your online name? Do you have Middle Eastern roots?
Gospel of the Kingdom of God! We will have no King but king Jesus! Love this guy.
Super insightful convo, much to process. Main key that I leave with is, we are all servants. Thanks.
Not only do l love Pastor Larry Titus because he’s the Barry White of theologians. Haha! His message and emphasis on leaders having a servants heart is greatly needed. ❤️🔥🙌🏻
@mathaytace scholar Haha. If you listen to the start of the show. I name Larry the Barry White of theologians in the live chat because of his soothing voice. Barry White is a famous singer with a distinct soothing voice. Classic pop culture.
@mathaytace scholar Here’s Barry Whites most famous song. m.ruclips.net/video/E7zmRvhFEYo/видео.html
So stoked to listen! Keep up the good work fellas.
Beautiful words you all finished with. I loved what Larry Titus said. He just wants a towel to wipe your feet.
One of your best shows! You don't see much humility with self proclaimed apostles. I have made the observation about the arrogance you see with some "TV apostles and prophets" that makes me wonder.
A Christian Missionary Alliance Pastor named Keith Bailey wrote "Servants in Charge" 1997. Leaders must be servants.
Wow guys. I love you guys! Not just for what you are doing but more importantly, for who you are, the purity of heart, as men of God/sons of the most High! This is one of my fave episodes so far...love the dialogue and how y’all humbly explain and openly explain the possibilities of all roles/responsibilities and purposes, for the sake of the growth of the body of Christ. “Title not really important, we all are just servant of God...washing feet.” All I kept seeing was Jesus and the followers of the Messiah, as y’all described the role of prophets and apostles, today. And Josh love ur explaining of a CEO and founder still needed after ground work laid down...just the shift of function. Wow. I love this brother with y’all, too. I believe this topic will stir many ppl that may be considered “lay” vs. clergy, to consider their role outside the 4 walls of an organization, which is needful, too, and open doors/perspective to touching and taking responsibility outside in areas that have been neglected for centuries, due to traditions that were not the early churches way of functioning and were not meant to be the churches function upon Jesus’s return. Love y’all! And God bless y’all all!
Larry Titus got me with the Apostolic-itus
So much to love in this episode! The Holy Spirit is in action in this one for sure. You got to have this guy back!
Thank God for Lewis He keeps it sane.
I really like this guy, I think in the same way about the modern church and it's structure. Good content.
The kingdom of God needs to be preached to reach the world and America.
It is amazing how Calvanistic this apostle is (the two are usually not connected). His life was laid out before him a a child and yet he still grew and made choices ending in what God had planned from the beginning. Love it! God's decree!
You should get this fellow back on the show in the future!
So, with regard to joshes comment about the Charismata. Any fusions four, the word is something like Domata. Those are like presents. Men and women who are those gifts themselves. The charisma tar in one Corinthians 12 are manifestations of the spirit, verse seven. So those are two different things. I believe all Doma gifts are leaders in the church. Someone might be cold and not developed yet into it, but they are preachers and teachers of the word. Anyone could prophesy, that would not make them a profit. Anyone could evangelize, but they may not be separated for the function of evangelist in the church. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers are not charisma. It is not so much that they have manifestation gifts, which they do, but they themselves areThose gifts to the church, or presents if you will. Tremendous insight from this brother who is a tremendous apostolic leader. Awesome humility. Love remnant radio.
There are still churches with Apostolic succession. The laying-on of hands that we see in the book of Acts is the ordination of Bishops, and we have those today. We also have Prophets, in the form of certain Monastic people who are given the gift of Clairvoyance, to the Glory of God alone.
Very well done. This man nailed it.
Good episode, looking forward for more content on this subject
Yes!!!!!!!! Everyone has a ministry! You can not function on 80% doing nothing!!!!!!
I believe that every ministry gift in Ephesians could qualify as a local church elder. Maybe not all of them would function that way necessarily, but they all must qualify.
They use the title pastor to be first just ignorant of the Fivefold ministry order but when you go to 1 Corinthians 12:28. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. You don’t see the office of Pastor mentioned. You find that only in Eph.4:11
Kingdom now guy
I clearly see prophets as still ongoing. Apostles, I got to work through. The thing I grapple with on this issue is the Messianic element. If it does apply, then it would seem that they would have to deeply revere the Hebraic reflections of the faith, not that it's all binding on Gentiles but they would be very respecting of those elements.
I certainly agree with Josh that there need to be character qualifications for sure as in one Timothy three and Titus one. For sure… And a person could have these things on the inside of them but not qualified and abusing them.
@@New_Disciple-G3101 well, all we’ve got to do is watch and see. Although because of what Jesus said, we know it will not be true, because no man knows the day or the hour. So after April is gone, he will probably re-calculate.
@@ryandawson2877 possibly ... thank you for your kind response. 🙏🏼🕊🙏🏼
Every believer is meant to be an Apostle
There is a distinction between apostles. You have apostles of the lamb and church apostles or post ascension apostles who maintenance the church for the perfection of the saints. An apostle today will always be on sending missions or assignments. Many are in churches but there are no prophetic presbyteries to release them into their work.
I like this episode and the emphasis on serving. I just do wonder how do we know God sent these people who are calling themselves apostles or prophets? I know you said that the Holy Spirit will reveal it, but a lot of these false prophets and apostles have completely snuck in perfectly fine by Christians. How come Christians are still deceived?
I wonder if the Dominion Theology people have ever considered. That because of our sin nature. We are unable to subdue the world for Jesus.
Even if we did. It would not be close to his standards. Because it would be all a work of the flesh and would never bring him glory.
All one needs to know is Daniel. The ancient of Days hands it to The Son of Man who delivers it (the kingdom) to the Saints
I was cheering the whole time Larry was speaking. I HAD to leave The Building/church because the whole system is incorrect. Larry is speaking my language. I've always believed that the One-Man-Pastor-Sunday-Morning-Show was way off. The whole Body should be involved when they are gathered together. There should be prophetic words/words of knowledge/tongues & interpretation, encouragement and edification, teachings, material & financial needs within the Body being addressed, etc... I've always wondered how pastors can have people in their "churches" and not even know them or their names. Who said the the pastor was the only one who is supposed to teach/preach? Isn't a pastor someone who intimately tends to the sheep? Where are the evangelists?
And, I'm looking for Scripture that uses the word 'authority' in relation to the eklesia. I was taught that "elders" are those mature Christians.
The pastor at Celebration Church in Jacksonville had a vision and was shown how leadership is ALL about being a servant and stewardship. That interview can be found done with Dr Mike Heiser, I believe.
Thank you so much for this interview. Gives me much needed hope for the Body of Christ!
Larry talks like an apostle 😹
Why are those who claim to be Apostles and prophets found in the charismatic movement where we see many false teachings and prophecy?
Maybe I missed it but who was he relaying at the 1960's era '5 chief apostles' that he believes were sincere and effective (as he was saying before the 'C. Peter Wagner type/model' came about)? Is he talking Wimber and Smith and others?
live chat doesn't seem to display
Doug and Holly would call this guy NAR. Just throwing that out there
Most charismatics are NAR to them.
@@DarrenRoy i know there brush is quite wide and ridiculous sadly. Causing a lot of division in the bride of Christ. I think they would also call RR nar but they won't admit it. Just gotta pray for them cuz it's kinda sad how they low-key demonize the biggest side of Christianity
Blessing what Systematic Theology books do you recommend for deeper study.. thanks for any recommendations..
I’ll stick with the 12 I know that Jesus directly appointed, whose names will be on 12 foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.
So you'd prefer Judas over Paul???
@@Berean_with_a_BTh We have the story of Paul’s direct appointment. We don’t have it for James or whoever wrote Hebrews.
I side with Josh just because I like him. 🙂 Probably not the way to decide about the matter though.
Great stuff Paul. Just a note. Phillips four daughters are not prophetess is. They prophesy. Just wanted to put that out there.
YIKES!
An arrow is another great way, Ive heard, to describe roles/positions in the body. It’s composed of many components but one function...to be shot to a desired target.
It’s nothing/purposeless without the Shooter pulling it out of the quiver, setting it in most effective/strategic position within the bow and releasing it/sending it to do damage to the works of darkness, in this world. Without knowing the heart of the Shooter/the Shepherd...the arrow loses effectiveness and even misdirected. The modern apostles and prophets seem to be the arrowhead but connected to the rest of the arrow and does not complete what needs completed without the slender shaft and feathered butt. All are equal but very difference in functionality but one purpose, expose and destroy the powers of the devil by reaching all ppl groups with the message of Christ, everywhere. There is no hierarchy system but it’s driven by the Father and His heart/love of God... unique from many other systems but for the sake of accomplishing the same purpose...serving the Lord, as called friends, bond servants.
Basically no difference between Kingdom Now and Dominionist. Believe that Jesus can't return until the church makes the earth ready. Basically skipping judgment, tend to be Israel replacement. Bad stuff.
All the weeds have choked out the wheat. The love-of-money preachers of today are NOT the true prophets; rather they are the enemy who sowed bad seed into God’s field.... see Matthew 13 and Ezekiel 34
Serving and exercising authority are not mutually exclusive.
I’m blessed by the vid but I wasn’t edify to learn how the gift of apostle continues. Did I miss it?
"I would that all the people of God were prophets" "I would that you all would prophesy."
I think those who move in this gift much more than others could perhaps be titled "prophet" since they move frequently and accurately in the gift, but I'm not so sure that they actually have the office of prophet since the church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and we are built upon the foundation they've set for us. I don't see this Scriptural level of office continuing in the Apostolic Church, (we can listen a shift in the Didache, for instance), but I do see the gift remaining.
OT and NT apostles and Prophets could as God willed, speak with Scriptural authority. There are no longer men who have that level of authority.
I think there is an ongoing sense of apostles like Barnabas, Silas, etc. Those missionaries sent by local churches can be seen as apostles in this sense and those who plant and oversee churches and their pastors today can perhaps been seen as having an office for those particular churches, although not the body of Christ as a whole. They are closer to what would later be called a regional bishop.
Although they would later be called successors to the apostles, none of the early Christian writings of the first couple generations that I'm aware of considered a bishop to be on the level of one of the 12 apostles, nor Paul.
There are NO Apostles or prophets today at all. They were the foundation of the church. You don't lay a foundation more than once. There are MANY deceiving spirits that are all to willing to imitate what the LORD used to do. As far as the LORD being the "same yesterday, today & forever" it is talking about his character not his methods. In times past, the LORD spoke in diverse ways but in these last days, he HAS spoken through his son.
You lay a foundation where it hasn’t been laid. Look at Romans 15:20. Paul considers laying the foundation with naming the name of Christ. This foundation is not a one time thing, but whenever someone calls on the name of the Lord.
We have the writings of the First century Believers. That, in and of itself, is an amazing thing God has gifted to the church. But, the mysteries of the Gospel and its Lord ( Romans 15:20-21) is something that still needs to be placed in a persons life. This does not happen once for all time, but in each generation.
There is also no reason to think, at least concerning the news of the kingdom and its Lord, that present day apostle and prophets would be given extra biblical revelation concerning these things.
The New Testament apostles and prophets were capable of understanding the oracles of God within their proper context (Romans 16:26, Luke 24:26-27). If something concerning the kingdom would be made known now to them, it would be some form of insight to help us understand what has been written. And personally, I don’t think the original Apostles or Prophets went beyond their scripture either. They just understood the Old Testament in light of the events of Christ and wrote about it.
Apostolic ministry happens in apostolic church, not protestant social centers.
Like this guys heart and focus on service but his understanding of the church is flawed. He rails against the church being a building, that is true. However, can you have a church without a gathering together of the saints? The church is both an organism and an institute. It is an organized organism.
Thanks. Those called to prophesy in the tribulation years are men and women. Joel 2:28 the tribulation years are 7 and they begin their ministry mid tribulation and it will last 3,5 years until the kingdom is glorified in his chosen ones. Listen to these, they are spiritual virgins, lost and scattered in the 4 corners of the earth. They are not the sda church nor do they belong to any manmade religion
Enough!
Numbers 12:6 If there is a Prophet among you I will make myself known to him in a vision and speak to him in his dreams.
My Beloved, I've experienced four open visions in the last fifteen years, 62 years old now.
On Purim 2020 the Lord showed me his Prophet that the Rapture was around the corner, we will no longer be lead by the spirit. But the manifestation of the Son's of God Romans 8. I saw myself being dressed in fine white linen garment with a stash around my waist and a round buckle for the stash. I cried out Abba Father and the Lord heard my voice and granted me a instantaneous miracle for my spouse RA healed both hands of Arthritis immediately. Eliakim Isaiah 22:20 is upon the horizon.
The Lord spoke to me audibly in the river of living water at the naval of our body; MY ABUNDANCE!
There is no such thing as a Righteous Democratic Believer Jeremiah 7 defines why. The abortionist idolators and oppressors who repent not...
It's not about politics but Righteosness of Christ. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, Proverbs 17:15 You who justify the wicked and condemn the just are both an abomination to the Lord. Woe unto the idolators and oppressors as well. These are the five foolish virgin brides who have no oil and quench the Holy Ghost by not following the supreme command of love in Mark 12,:29-31.
Seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteosness and all these things shall be added unto you.
Until fear of the Lord comes to the body of Christ, no Revival. Sad when we must break first, in order so the Lord can make something beautiful from it.
Elijah the Prophet
Too many conditions.
Please pay attention to the visiting pastor. You two guys are expressing your own opinions.
remnant radio= "but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions," 1 timmothy 6:4
Jesus said to pray for the Lord of the harvest to sent forth laborers into his harvest. He prayed all night, came down, and appointed 12 and designated them 'apostles'-- sent ones, and sent them out with instructions to preach, to heal, to cast out demons, and raise the dead. That is the Matthew account.
In Mark, Jesus appointed 12 that they might be with Him and that he might send them out to preach. They are called 'apostles' first after they returned from the journey.
When was Saul/Paul introduced as an 'apostle' in Acts? It is not until after the Spirit spoke in Acts 13:1 to a number of prophets and teachers in Antioch who were ministering to the Lord, saying to separate Barnabas and Saul to the work to which he had called them. With prayer and fasting, they laid hands on them and they went out, sent by the Holy Ghost. In Acts 14:4 and again in verse 14, both men are called 'apostles.'
We see some commonalities here. In one case, Jesus appointed men as 'apostles' and sent them out to preach. In another, the Spirit speaks, identifying those sent out to preach. Christ said the Spirit would take of what is His "...and show it unto you...." (John 16:14).
We also see Paul indicating certain fellow laborers were apostles. I Thessalonians 1:1 indicates that Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy wrote this epistle. Chapter 2:6-7 indicates that the authors are 'apostles of Christ'. In I Corinthians 3:6 Paul refers to himself and to Apollos. In verse 9, he writes of 'we apostles'. In context, it appears that he is referring to himself and Apollos.
There are those who argue that in order to be an apostle, one had to witness the resurrection, based on Acts 1. But Peter was listing the requirements to replace Judas as one of the Twelve. Paul did not fit all of the requirements, but he was not replacing Judas. Paul's comment in I Corinthians 15:5-8 that Jesus had appeared to the twelve and as seen of Paul 'last of all' as 'one born out of due' time is an implicit recognition that Paul was not one of the Twelve. Christ had appeared to Matthias according to Acts 1. Judas hanged himself after Christ died. So the implication is the 'the twelve' in I Corinthians 15:5 includes Judas.
Paul lists his being an apostle, his having seen Christ and the fact that he was free as part of the argument that he deserved to 'live of the Gospel', a right he declined. But he never wrote that seeing the risen Lord was a requirement for being an apostle. We do not know from scripture if Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, or Apollos ever saw the risen Lord. It would seem quite unlikely that Apollos saw Christ unless it was in some type of visionary experience. And John saw the Lord Jesus in such an experience after Paul saw him 'last of all' so his comment should not be taken as proof such experiences would not occur after his own conversion.
If we look in scripture, certain men, sent by the Lord to travel and preach are called 'apostles.' In Acts, we see Paul and Barnabas' work resulted in the founding of new churches. Watchman Nee's 'Concerning our Mission' or 'The Normal Christian Church Life' carefully examines the use of 'apostle' in scripture. I also cover this in a book I am preparing to release. Nee sees Paul and Barnabas as prototypical of 'post ascension apostles.' He points out that the 12 were made apostles before the ascension. Ephesians 4 teaches that Christ ascended on high and gave gifts unto men. So there was an apostolic gift given AFTER the ascension also. So he saw the church planting type role of Paul and Barnabas as prototypical. The movement of which Nee was a part can be viewed as a part of the Plymouth Brethren movement and was formally in fellowship with some Exclusive Brethren before they formally cut ties with the movement over Nee not being exclusive enough for them in his fellowship. I have encountered at least one other person in this movement, probably the 'open' side of it, that had a similar view to Nee's.
The Assembly of God also has a position paper that allows for an apostolic 'function' to continue. IMO, it is careful wording to avoid the uncomfortable stance of saying there are still apostles. But the role of the apostle in church planting in Watchman Nee's thinking aligns fairly well with the A/G position on the apostolic 'function.'
Many people in the house church movement have a similar view to Nee's when it comes to apostles being church planters. This is also true of some of the individuals involved in the missions-focused movements focusing on rapid church multiplication.
And historically, there is a use of 'apostle' that refers to those who introduced the gospel to nations. Often, they were ordained as bishops. Cyril and Methodius introduced the gospel to various eastern European groups. They are dubbed apostles to the Slavs, Bulgars, and a long list of ethnic groups. Oscar or Angsar is known as the apostle to the north for his work among the Norse. Patrick is known as the apostle of Ireland for taking the gospel to the Irish, which occurred under supernatural direction through a vision leading him out of Ireland and a supernatural voice directing him back according to writings historians attribute to him, and was accompanied by healings, signs and wonders according to hagiographies written afterward.
These ideas of apostleship do not necessarily fit well with NAR thinking. There may be those dubbed apostles in the movement who fit the description. But there is also the idea of 'apostle' as an extra layer of hierarchy on top of local church leadership, leaders of networks of charismatic-type movements. There are also those who think of apostles as 'movers and shakers' both in the church and society. The idea seems to be related to having a charism for being a great leader rather than anything very sytematically reasoned out from scripture.
Some NAR folks focus on I Corinthians 4:15a "15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers..." and so there is the concept of an 'apostle' as a fatherly mentor. But the verse continues, "for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel." Paul's fatherliness was connected to actually having won his readers to Christ, or winning the initial core of believers that made up the church to the Gospel. He begat them through the Gospel.
Paul and Timothy also had a 'measure of rule' that extended to the Corinthians because they had gone as Corinth with the Gospel. They wanted to expand their 'measure' by taking the gospel into other regions. (II Corinthians 10:13-16.) Their 'rule' was directly connected to having introduced the Gospel in these areas. In Acts 21-22, Paul goes to Jerusalem. He does not dominate the elders and say, "I am an apostle. Submit to my authority." Instead, he goes along with James' and the elders' advice.
Acts 21 also illustrates how the twelve apostles did not put themselves at the head of administration of a network of churches. At first, they were collecting funds put at their feet to distribute to the poor and handling the feeding of widows. Buy the time Barnabas and Saul bring a collection for the poor saints in Jerusalem, the elders collected the money while they devoted themselves to prayer and being witnesses of the resurrection. The 12 appointed the 7 to feed the poor, and by the time Paul got to Jerusalem, they let James and the elders handle the political hot potato. Paul and Barnabas appointed elders in Acts 14. We do not know when elders were appointed in Corinth, but Paul did handle some moral and doctrinal issues in Corinth though he lived far away.
We should not equate all church planters with 'apostles.' Planting a large church could be a matter of opening up next to another congregation and offering a more appealing children's program, hipper music, a better smoke machine, and more interesting sermons. We should not equate all 'missionaries' with 'apostles' also. There are missionaries running humanitarian aid projects, which may be excellent, but some of them are not active preachers of the gospel.
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Confusing.
Ascension gifts we’ll needed gifts. He Gave gifts to men. Amein too many are taking Authority over people’s lives wanting to lord and master over The people. Too much Abuse.
Let Your guest talk for a minute.
2 tim 3;4-5 he is conceited understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
That’s 1 Timothy 6:4&5.
So what is an apostle?
??????????????
Nice rainbow 🌈 behind Josh
No, I’m sorry, there are not anymore offices of Apostles and Prophets.
@Desire Of All Nations
Breanna is correct. If I can find some time I will give you a proper textual basis. A Biblical exegesis. This is no more than another version of the NAR movement.
@Desire Of All Nations what in the world does the prophetic portion of Scripture you are mentioning have to do with the argument that there are still Apostles and Prophet offices today?
We are building on the foundation of the Apostles today, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. They have already laid the foundation, and we are building on it. An Apostles was chosen by our Lord, walked with our Lord, and was and eye whiteness to our Lords resurrection, as well Paul! Thus the apostle were given authority under the inspiration to pen Scripture.NO the modern Apostles are no Apostles at all, these men are insecure puffed up wannabees who will answer to God for perpetuating this falsity.
@@DavidSchockk So you are happy to take part of the Scripture Eph 4,11 and leave the rest...do you still believe in the other offices there?Hmm....
Scripture gives a what, why and when for the 5-Fold ministry gifts. Ephesians 4:11-13. What - v. 11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;” Why - v. 12 “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” When - v. 13-16 (for the sake of keeping it short, I’ll refer to 13) “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”
The 5-Fold has a design, a mission and a purpose. Furthermore, it has a timeline. The first word of v. 13 is the indication of that timeline. “Till”. So, that lets me know that until whatever follows is achieved, those gifts will still be in full function. I can tell you right now, they’re all still necessary. They all have a different role, responsibility and duty to the body, and until the mission is accomplished ALL of them will still be present in the earth. How is it that you justify BIBLICALLY the cessation theology? By the time we get to Paul, we’re at the 15th apostle, so there’s clear continuation of the gift, even in scripture. We’ve not fulfilled vs. 13-16, and as such, all 5 are necessary. It cannot al fall on pastors, teachers and evangelists. That’s an unbalanced body.
I could go on, but I’ll end (for now) with this. Yes, the foundation of the ekklesia is on the apostles and prophets of old. And nobody is saying that new apostles are to lay a new foundation. But when you study what the Apostolic office/gift is, you find that it’s a governing, teaching, and guiding office/gift. If we look at the church of today, in comparison to the first century ekklesia, one would notice STARK contrast. It is not the duty of the modern day apostle to lay a new foundation, but rather, to guide the ekklesia back to the original blueprint. Verse 14 is key to understanding the necessity of them all in modern day times... “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of DOCTRINE, by the sleight of MEN, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;” Why did I emphasize those two words? In the “church” of today, there are dozens of doctrines floating around, if not more. These doctrines are represented by denominations. Furthermore, when one understands Kingdom vs. Christianity, one would see STARK differences. Christianity is plagued by many winds of doctrine, which were developed by men whom established denominational doctrine, sets of rules and standards that they’ve warped scripture to fit in to. However, Christ never taught, spoke nor acknowledged either Christianity nor any denomination, but rather Kingdom.
I’d love to discuss the foundation of your belief that these gifts/offices are no longer, with biblical exegesis not eisegesis.
@@nicostringfellow6013 excellent!
Do you understand that christianity is not based on statistics?
First time seeing yalls talkshow/podcast.
I do appreciate the crucial questions that y'all bring up!
Too much talk.
is not even this channel seeking to draw people after themselves? "hit the like and subscribe button"
what is taking place here is not biblical! they too are operating outside the scope of the local assembly, all "work" for the kingdom comes out of the local assembly, even church planters { btw no need to go to an area where there are already a church? doing so is nothing more than establishing a sect in that area, and not biblical} are sent out from the local church. what church has sent these men out? are they operating within the scope of true christian ministry? i would contend no!
This guy is not actually answering any of your questions in a concrete way. I think you can detect this by some of your body language during the interview. This guy is tricky, I would beware of him.
So how long do we wait for approval? This is the reason church is empty... If they had discernment they would be able to see if he's true or not... I'm shocked this is what you preach
Gauging the drop in "church attendance" as a measure of the effectiveness of the Church universal is a poor measure for what the Lord is doing through all the spiritual giants walking this earth who are not laying claim to being apostles or prophets. This program sounded more like an advertisement for continued support for those claiming to be apostles and prophets than getting back to the sufficiency of the word of God, and the working of the Spirit through the many spiritual giants who disciple new converts, pointing them ONLY to Christ Jesus. You people who promote these alleged prophets and apostles, read 1 John 2:27 sometime, and realize that the Spirit of the Lord dwells in ALL the Lord's people, not just a special hand full of people. You folks also promote anti-biblical expressions with women in those positions. You people need to get a drip on discerning the many sins within your prophetic and apostolic movements.