I enjoyed this a lot - you got everything right. The technical set up was perfect, and the pop-up cards on the screen was a really great idea. It was also focused as well, with a good amount of banter but not so much that the game slowed to a crawl, which I appreciate as I don't have much time to watch these sorts of videos, so having the time at about an hour is just right. Do more!
They got ALMOST everything right, which is honestly a lot better than most Gloomhaven vids I've seen. When Elaine opened the door, they interrupted her turn to see if the enemies needed to act. The rules say that the revealing character gets to finish their turn before the revealed enemies attack.
what a blast! Such great sports! When you have this much fun when you lose; no wonder we play! Hells yes you will do more of these, it is a thrill and pleasure to share your table. Thanks ever so! PLEDGE!!! I did, with nary a regret! You should too, and shame if you haven't. Excelsior!
After watching this video I just went and backed the kickstarter. One of the best playthroughs I've watched. 2 nice, funny, friendly people and it felt inclusive, like I was hanging out with you. Thanks guys!
Our entire family enjoyed watching your playthrough. The card pop-ups were great as we're not yet familiar with the Spellweaver or Mindthief decks. My husband and I just started recently with a Cragheart and Tinkerer, and we're having a blast. We would love to see more playthroughs, particularly of Gloomhaven. Off to back your Kickstarter now!
Nicely put together content folks. Clear, engaging, good angles and editing, great post-production work. Good on you for carrying on after that nasty-ass road encounter.
Don't be put off by the price. It's worth it. Unlike some games that come with a big box that is mostly empty, Gloomhaven comes in a huge box that is packed to bursting. It has a crazy amount of replayability too. I've probably played 40+ hours of it and no game session has felt like a rehash of a previous session.
This was so fun to watch! I agree with those saying watching you lose or forget movement was reassuring because we do all those things too. We looked at each other at least 5 times during this video and said "we NEED to play Gloomhaven again ASAP!" The only problem is that we are going to need Elaine to come and read the story cards for us! Also wanted to mention how impressed we were with the production value on this video! Love the graphics and being able to see which card you were using was fantastic. We would probably watch more Gloomhaven play throughs with you two lol, but looking forward to seeing what else you play through. -Jen and Jim
Super to see you guys play this. My friends and I recently started the game but had it on quite a hard setting and proceeded to struggle somewhat. Look forward to trying the scenario from your kickstarter.
Early on when you moved the archers you moved them 2 spaces however you only move them to be in range so they wouldn’t have moved that full movement. They want to stay as far away as possible.
This is a game with a lot of rules, and it's easy to make mistakes, but there are a few things that might make your life better if you correct them (and some that just make people like me happier ;P ) Pure nitpickery: on turn 1, archer 1 should only have moved 1 space to get into range of Elaine's character, not the full 2 (monsters don't move more than they need to). When you reveal a room, the correct sequence is: - set up the room's contents - reveal ability cards for any added monster types - finish the current player's turn - any monsters that missed their turn by not being on the map yet get their turns - continue the round as normal I caught Efka messing up how to do a short rest at one point - he took his turn, then shuffled his last card in hand into his discards, discarded one at random, then continued with the rest of the round. Short rests should happen at the end of the round (in particular, if he lost a card later that round to prevent damage, he would have had to lose that last card from his hand, which I think might have been Reviving Ether, or two from his discards) and don't include any unplayed cards in the shuffle. Another one that's pretty neutral is that the Mindthief's stun modifier is, I believe, a +0 Stun rather than a rolling Stun - but the design decision was made to just show the effect and leave the +0 off from +0 {effect} modifier cards. With the Mindthief in particular, you can squeeze a couple of extra turns out if you know that you can choose to discard non-loss cards from your active area - so whenever the Mindthief rests, they can discard their Augment so it comes back to their hand with the rest of their discards. If you would have an odd number of cards in hand after the rest without it, discarding the Augment gets you an extra turn, even if all you do with that turn is to replay the Augment. This also means that Elaine could have had another turn at the end if she hadn't embraced the trap to give Efka a way through. Speaking of resting, long rests are great. You get to decide which card you lose, you get any reusable items back, and, most importantly, you get to heal 2 damage. If you're up against a lot of enemies, or you've not taken any damage and haven't used any items yet, then you might not want to spend the turn doing nothing, but, in general, long rests should be your default, and you should need a reason to take a short rest instead. Tactically, knowing that he only had at most one turn left, Efka should have gone invisible on that last turn - there's no way he could have dealt the 18 damage needed in order to win the scenario, but he could at least have guaranteed getting that last turn in.
Thanks for the exhaustive rules clarifications. I will have to pull you up on the mindthief's stun card however. Directly from the FAQ: Attack modifier card 110: TYPO - this card is missing a rolling modifier symbol.
@@NoPunIncluded Thanks for drawing my attention to it - I've not played Mindthief myself, so I was going by what's on the cards rather than knowing what's on the perk list...
@@rmsgrey no worries. I think you wrote a very useful list of clarifications. Gives viewers more clarity. It's funny, largely everything you mentioned are things we know but when you're filming a playthrough - so much stuff just leaves your head. Certainly a skill that needs to be honed.
@@NoPunIncluded You could tell you are stressed by doing the playthrough, because you could see that you know the rules, but you made a lot of small mistakes, like not creating/using elements, not doing monster turns (guards did not move after Elaine opended the door), not getting xp (like the 2nd tick of frost armour) etc. I really like the playthrough though ;P
Man I want to bust this out again, maybe next weekend! It just takes so much to set up and put back away.....plus the enormous amount of space it requires. Wife and I love it to pieces though.
Great stuff, please continue to do more playthroughs! Minor quibble: I'm definitely not used to 50 frames-per-second video so switching between the different cameras and their FPS was a bit distracting.
very much more entertaining and fun to watch than SUSD hour and half of card shuffling and looking worried. not that its a competition. but if it were, you have won this round. not that it is. unless it is. in which case well done.
This was charming. And kind of personally reassuring -- my own adventuring party isn't the only one who sometimes manages to get themselves into a fix after some early miscommunication, and a misjudged move action or two. Now I want to play. And back the Kickstarter so that there's plenty more NPI. :-)
I know this is old, but that was fast, fun, and a little sad. :) Sure wish you guys would do more Gloomhaven - you were very entertaining! I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "fiddlesticks" lol. I prefer that to some of the things you hear now a days. I'll be looking for your next kickstarter campaign.
This was great, I agree with the other comments more play through videos of this would be great. I really appreciate it because I was wondering if Gloomhaven would be a good fit for me, and this really let me see the game. Thanks you!
Dont wanna be the nerdy over here but you did the first turn of the archers wrong... They will target someone first and then move as less as possible to get in range. It was nice to watch 👍🏽
A mere year or two later you finally voice an opinion on Gloomhaven! I mean we know you liked it but you've been so coy about it for so long it's almost become a trope of NPI
I really enjoyed the video. If you enable open editing, I will go back and improve the automatic transcription on the video. RUclips can't tell the difference between y'all saying "three" and "free."
Yeah yeah .. I enjoyed the valiant attempt and if the rat wasn't so tired things would have been different.. discarding 2 cards up front didn't help either .. unlocking a new scenario is always cool.. Gloomhaven is awesome because next go at the same scenario you may stomp it with ease .. thanks for a enjoyable hour that I don't want a refund for.. some tubes I watch I wish I could get my hour back.. ✌️
i was 7 minutes in that vid but i had to stop.. i plan to buy this game, so you know, i will do it myself.. but you enjoy it, go on.. continue, have fun..;):P what are you waiting for? ..do i need to press play..???!:D
Great video, well done, but every time I watch people play Gloomhaven, they always get tired halfway through the adventure and basically have to lose hope of completing the adventure, which seems very unsatisfying.
I only saw the first 15m but I can tell that you aren't moving the enemies correctly. The archers only move to get in range and then attack. You moved them closer than needed.
So, I can see y'all are having fun, and it's always entertaining to watch NPI videos no matter what they're about. But... I still don't get the appeal of Gloomhaven and, I suppose, other fantasy adventure campaign board games. In fact, it doesn't even strike me as a board game, but a role-playing game. I look at what you're doing and thing, if I wanted that, I'd just start playing D&D again. But clearly there are plenty of people who don't share my opinion on this! Regardless, I'm very excited that you will be doing playthroughs and look forward to the next one. Cheers!
It's a middle ground between RPG and board game where someone's done all the work for you. It's definitely not as good for role playing as a good GM, but Gloomhaven is a whole bunch of cool combat encounters with much greater consistency than all but the very best combat focused GMs can offer. Of course there is the matter of planned strategy, which can always push a GM over, but it can also make encounters wildly inconsistent, and are generally better served by strategy and war games anyways... so again, unless your GM is incredible I think there's more consitant options, Honestly these sorts of games make D&D perfunctory to me, the system is so focused on number heavy and dicey combat now and board games can, by and large, do that better more often than not... Not to say there's no roleplaying in D&D, but it's less true of the RPGs I would choose to play now. Of course no board game can replace something like the deep political intrigue of Masquerade, the out of the box problem solving of Star Trek Adventures, or the flexibility of FUDGE (which to be fair I have used to make a combat heavy game before, but with a very strong focus on HEMA and depth you simply couldn't put into a mass market game, so that's still a very different thing that neither D&D nor any board game offers). At least, that's my feelings on the matter; not trying to say yours are in any way invalid, just trying to describe another point of view.
Most dungeon crawlers are tactical combat games where you use your abilities, equipment and positioning to mitigate the luck (with Gloomhaven, card draws). An RPG can be dialed down to be a dungeon crawler (how I played them in high school), but at that point you're probably saving time and money just getting a dungeon crawler board game.
For me, the appeal of Gloomhaven over D&D is that, while it has complex rules, it's not as completely free-form and huge, and I'm at an age and gameplaying time budget that it's less overwhelming to me as a result of that. On top of that, the mechanic of picking top and bottom actions, potentially changing them based on what the monsters do, and having those cards serve as a slow countdown towards exhaustion is, I think, a really great puzzle of a mechanic for a Euro-style game. And then with each character and monster having a mix of abilities that suit them (combined with the fun of unlocking new boxes and envelopes, progressing characters, and ultimately retiring them), I'm hooked not just for a game here or there, but for the whole campaign. So for me it's some of the fantasy fun that D&D was when I had a lot more free time (wasn't a parent, didn't have a job) combined with the kind of puzzle-solving and time/resource pressure that I like from Euro gaming. A nice marriage of the two worlds.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I enjoyed this a lot - you got everything right. The technical set up was perfect, and the pop-up cards on the screen was a really great idea. It was also focused as well, with a good amount of banter but not so much that the game slowed to a crawl, which I appreciate as I don't have much time to watch these sorts of videos, so having the time at about an hour is just right. Do more!
They got ALMOST everything right, which is honestly a lot better than most Gloomhaven vids I've seen. When Elaine opened the door, they interrupted her turn to see if the enemies needed to act. The rules say that the revealing character gets to finish their turn before the revealed enemies attack.
I LOVE Elaines optimism throughout the whole thing XD "It's Fiiiiine"
This was a lot of fun to watch. I'd like to see more playthroughs for sure.
what a blast! Such great sports! When you have this much fun when you lose; no wonder we play! Hells yes you will do more of these, it is a thrill and pleasure to share your table. Thanks ever so! PLEDGE!!! I did, with nary a regret! You should too, and shame if you haven't. Excelsior!
After watching this video I just went and backed the kickstarter. One of the best playthroughs I've watched. 2 nice, funny, friendly people and it felt inclusive, like I was hanging out with you. Thanks guys!
Thank you so much! Our aim with this was to make folks feel like they're sharing a table with us and it's nice to hear it worked.
This is what I kept looking for. A GH playthrough with nice montage and enthusiasm.
Our entire family enjoyed watching your playthrough. The card pop-ups were great as we're not yet familiar with the Spellweaver or Mindthief decks. My husband and I just started recently with a Cragheart and Tinkerer, and we're having a blast. We would love to see more playthroughs, particularly of Gloomhaven. Off to back your Kickstarter now!
Nicely put together content folks. Clear, engaging, good angles and editing, great post-production work. Good on you for carrying on after that nasty-ass road encounter.
I enjoyed this a lot. My friends and i have been kicking around getting Gloomhaven for a while, and this definitely is getting me itchy to play.
Don't be put off by the price. It's worth it. Unlike some games that come with a big box that is mostly empty, Gloomhaven comes in a huge box that is packed to bursting. It has a crazy amount of replayability too. I've probably played 40+ hours of it and no game session has felt like a rehash of a previous session.
Thank you guys, this was really nice, well edited and entertaining!
This was so fun to watch! I agree with those saying watching you lose or forget movement was reassuring because we do all those things too. We looked at each other at least 5 times during this video and said "we NEED to play Gloomhaven again ASAP!" The only problem is that we are going to need Elaine to come and read the story cards for us! Also wanted to mention how impressed we were with the production value on this video! Love the graphics and being able to see which card you were using was fantastic. We would probably watch more Gloomhaven play throughs with you two lol, but looking forward to seeing what else you play through. -Jen and Jim
Wow. I hope to see more gloomhaven playthroughs!
We played this scenario yesterday! And moved through it swimmingly. Love your show.
Pretty sure that revealed monsters always act after your turn
Arviden You are correct. Timing as of fourth printing is, “Once the revealing characters turn ends...”.
Super to see you guys play this. My friends and I recently started the game but had it on quite a hard setting and proceeded to struggle somewhat. Look forward to trying the scenario from your kickstarter.
Reassuring to see you forget to move the elements up and down as well :-) nice playthrough, reminds me to get it played again soon, so thanks
Nice to see that your games go a lot like ours. It really is a very absorbing and fun game, even when you loose. Great play through.
Early on when you moved the archers you moved them 2 spaces however you only move them to be in range so they wouldn’t have moved that full movement. They want to stay as far away as possible.
You two are so much fun!!!
I really enjoyed this and I hope you do another. The card popups were really helpful
Great video, lots of good production points and super interesting too!
This is a game with a lot of rules, and it's easy to make mistakes, but there are a few things that might make your life better if you correct them (and some that just make people like me happier ;P )
Pure nitpickery: on turn 1, archer 1 should only have moved 1 space to get into range of Elaine's character, not the full 2 (monsters don't move more than they need to).
When you reveal a room, the correct sequence is:
- set up the room's contents
- reveal ability cards for any added monster types
- finish the current player's turn
- any monsters that missed their turn by not being on the map yet get their turns
- continue the round as normal
I caught Efka messing up how to do a short rest at one point - he took his turn, then shuffled his last card in hand into his discards, discarded one at random, then continued with the rest of the round. Short rests should happen at the end of the round (in particular, if he lost a card later that round to prevent damage, he would have had to lose that last card from his hand, which I think might have been Reviving Ether, or two from his discards) and don't include any unplayed cards in the shuffle.
Another one that's pretty neutral is that the Mindthief's stun modifier is, I believe, a +0 Stun rather than a rolling Stun - but the design decision was made to just show the effect and leave the +0 off from +0 {effect} modifier cards.
With the Mindthief in particular, you can squeeze a couple of extra turns out if you know that you can choose to discard non-loss cards from your active area - so whenever the Mindthief rests, they can discard their Augment so it comes back to their hand with the rest of their discards. If you would have an odd number of cards in hand after the rest without it, discarding the Augment gets you an extra turn, even if all you do with that turn is to replay the Augment. This also means that Elaine could have had another turn at the end if she hadn't embraced the trap to give Efka a way through.
Speaking of resting, long rests are great. You get to decide which card you lose, you get any reusable items back, and, most importantly, you get to heal 2 damage. If you're up against a lot of enemies, or you've not taken any damage and haven't used any items yet, then you might not want to spend the turn doing nothing, but, in general, long rests should be your default, and you should need a reason to take a short rest instead.
Tactically, knowing that he only had at most one turn left, Efka should have gone invisible on that last turn - there's no way he could have dealt the 18 damage needed in order to win the scenario, but he could at least have guaranteed getting that last turn in.
Thanks for the exhaustive rules clarifications. I will have to pull you up on the mindthief's stun card however. Directly from the FAQ: Attack modifier card 110:
TYPO - this card is missing a rolling modifier symbol.
@@NoPunIncluded
Thanks for drawing my attention to it - I've not played Mindthief myself, so I was going by what's on the cards rather than knowing what's on the perk list...
@@rmsgrey no worries. I think you wrote a very useful list of clarifications. Gives viewers more clarity. It's funny, largely everything you mentioned are things we know but when you're filming a playthrough - so much stuff just leaves your head. Certainly a skill that needs to be honed.
@@NoPunIncluded You could tell you are stressed by doing the playthrough, because you could see that you know the rules, but you made a lot of small mistakes, like not creating/using elements, not doing monster turns (guards did not move after Elaine opended the door), not getting xp (like the 2nd tick of frost armour) etc.
I really like the playthrough though ;P
Man I want to bust this out again, maybe next weekend! It just takes so much to set up and put back away.....plus the enormous amount of space it requires. Wife and I love it to pieces though.
Yes, yes, yes more Gloomhaven please. Thanks for an entertaining video.
I had so much fun watching this.
Great stuff, please continue to do more playthroughs! Minor quibble: I'm definitely not used to 50 frames-per-second video so switching between the different cameras and their FPS was a bit distracting.
Really enjoyed the playthrough, even with the result. I like the overlay showing the played card a lot!
very much more entertaining and fun to watch than SUSD hour and half of card shuffling and looking worried. not that its a competition. but if it were, you have won this round. not that it is. unless it is. in which case well done.
This was charming. And kind of personally reassuring -- my own adventuring party isn't the only one who sometimes manages to get themselves into a fix after some early miscommunication, and a misjudged move action or two. Now I want to play. And back the Kickstarter so that there's plenty more NPI. :-)
I really enjoyed seeing your honest play through gloomhaven. I encourage you to name a round two video. And thank you for the footage
Love the card overlays..
I know this is old, but that was fast, fun, and a little sad. :) Sure wish you guys would do more Gloomhaven - you were very entertaining! I can't remember the last time I heard someone say "fiddlesticks" lol. I prefer that to some of the things you hear now a days. I'll be looking for your next kickstarter campaign.
This was great, I agree with the other comments more play through videos of this would be great. I really appreciate it because I was wondering if Gloomhaven would be a good fit for me, and this really let me see the game. Thanks you!
Love your videos! Could you talk about which cards to sleeve and which organizer you use? Need to prepare ;) Thank you so much!
I loved this! Well done on a really good playthrough! Even though you lost, it was great!
OMG, Elaine has a lovely voice!
Backed on Kickstarter and ready to watch more Gloomhaven :)
Enjoyed this very much,just got my copy. 👍👍
This is fun to watch!
Charming and enjoyable
Please do more of these and now I need this game
Awesome finish with the battle goals
Really enjoying the play 😁👍Now I want to play Gloomhaven 🤣
Looking forward to watching more of your playthroughs. 👀📺
45:45 the stun isn't a rollover card, it's a +0 stun (as noted on the Mindthief perk track)
Check the FAQ ;)
I watched this video and now I own gloomhaven!
Lovely play-through. I fail often, so I feel I am in good company.
Please do more Gloomhaven! I can't afford it but I will watch you guys play all of it
That was Great, I now know for sure that I'm not doing anything wrong. This game is just that brutal at times. Thanks let's see more....
Dont wanna be the nerdy over here but you did the first turn of the archers wrong... They will target someone first and then move as less as possible to get in range. It was nice to watch 👍🏽
great vibe between you two :)
Whats the best combo of starter characters? Can one play w only 1 character in a campaign?
A mere year or two later you finally voice an opinion on Gloomhaven! I mean we know you liked it but you've been so coy about it for so long it's almost become a trope of NPI
so nice, you guys play the same way I play :) its a complex game and I frequently forget stuff too. But I try to have fun anyways.
Great video! Also, if you aren't using it yet, I cannot recommend Gloomhaven Helper app enough! It does so much of the admin stuff for you.
Is that the Broken Token organizer?
if you play a game and have this much fun is it really a loss?
more playthroughs please!
I wish I could see the classes you're playing! I don't know if you were avoiding spoilers? You guys are awesome, either way. 😘
It was the Spellweaver and Mindthief. Both starter classes.
I have to add LOL... screensaver w/ Rodney on a Goose in the background.
Why don't you take full rests when there are no monsters? I'm confused. It was a fun playthrough nonetheless. And the pop up cards are really nice
Elaine Gloomhaven audio track in the next NPI KS. Gaurenteed back for me.
I really enjoyed the video. If you enable open editing, I will go back and improve the automatic transcription on the video. RUclips can't tell the difference between y'all saying "three" and "free."
Enabled! This would be a mighty fine thing to do - thank you!
Is that Rodney riding a goose in the background on the computer screen? lol
always.
"Fiddlesticks!" That is what I say in place of swear! Fiddlesticks and Rainbows.
I play solo with the Spellweaver and Mindthief and it's so hard with these low HP guys...
Yeah yeah .. I enjoyed the valiant attempt and if the rat wasn't so tired things would have been different.. discarding 2 cards up front didn't help either .. unlocking a new scenario is always cool.. Gloomhaven is awesome because next go at the same scenario you may stomp it with ease .. thanks for a enjoyable hour that I don't want a refund for.. some tubes I watch I wish I could get my hour back.. ✌️
I love you two
Helloooo new series
i was 7 minutes in that vid but i had to stop.. i plan to buy this game, so you know, i will do it myself.. but you enjoy it, go on.. continue, have fun..;):P what are you waiting for? ..do i need to press play..???!:D
Maybe an unpopular request, given that it is out of print... but....
could you do a playthrough of forbidden stars?
Who knows, maybe one day, eh?
@@NoPunIncluded Is that a Canadian eh?
One can hope :-)
Bottom action....nice.....
Go team soft underbelly!
Great video, well done, but every time I watch people play Gloomhaven, they always get tired halfway through the adventure and basically have to lose hope of completing the adventure, which seems very unsatisfying.
I only saw the first 15m but I can tell that you aren't moving the enemies correctly. The archers only move to get in range and then attack. You moved them closer than needed.
Did you HAVE to step on her exhausted body?
So, I can see y'all are having fun, and it's always entertaining to watch NPI videos no matter what they're about. But... I still don't get the appeal of Gloomhaven and, I suppose, other fantasy adventure campaign board games. In fact, it doesn't even strike me as a board game, but a role-playing game. I look at what you're doing and thing, if I wanted that, I'd just start playing D&D again. But clearly there are plenty of people who don't share my opinion on this! Regardless, I'm very excited that you will be doing playthroughs and look forward to the next one. Cheers!
It's a middle ground between RPG and board game where someone's done all the work for you. It's definitely not as good for role playing as a good GM, but Gloomhaven is a whole bunch of cool combat encounters with much greater consistency than all but the very best combat focused GMs can offer. Of course there is the matter of planned strategy, which can always push a GM over, but it can also make encounters wildly inconsistent, and are generally better served by strategy and war games anyways... so again, unless your GM is incredible I think there's more consitant options,
Honestly these sorts of games make D&D perfunctory to me, the system is so focused on number heavy and dicey combat now and board games can, by and large, do that better more often than not... Not to say there's no roleplaying in D&D, but it's less true of the RPGs I would choose to play now. Of course no board game can replace something like the deep political intrigue of Masquerade, the out of the box problem solving of Star Trek Adventures, or the flexibility of FUDGE (which to be fair I have used to make a combat heavy game before, but with a very strong focus on HEMA and depth you simply couldn't put into a mass market game, so that's still a very different thing that neither D&D nor any board game offers).
At least, that's my feelings on the matter; not trying to say yours are in any way invalid, just trying to describe another point of view.
Most dungeon crawlers are tactical combat games where you use your abilities, equipment and positioning to mitigate the luck (with Gloomhaven, card draws). An RPG can be dialed down to be a dungeon crawler (how I played them in high school), but at that point you're probably saving time and money just getting a dungeon crawler board game.
For me, the appeal of Gloomhaven over D&D is that, while it has complex rules, it's not as completely free-form and huge, and I'm at an age and gameplaying time budget that it's less overwhelming to me as a result of that. On top of that, the mechanic of picking top and bottom actions, potentially changing them based on what the monsters do, and having those cards serve as a slow countdown towards exhaustion is, I think, a really great puzzle of a mechanic for a Euro-style game. And then with each character and monster having a mix of abilities that suit them (combined with the fun of unlocking new boxes and envelopes, progressing characters, and ultimately retiring them), I'm hooked not just for a game here or there, but for the whole campaign. So for me it's some of the fantasy fun that D&D was when I had a lot more free time (wasn't a parent, didn't have a job) combined with the kind of puzzle-solving and time/resource pressure that I like from Euro gaming. A nice marriage of the two worlds.
This is a great run through,,,,,, not perfect play, like the rest of us, which is too cool