@matthewsprinkle7681 were all 40k rejects! GW staff have told me over and over that nobody starts their journey with Heresy. Its where the older more mature hobbyists usually find a home. If it gets added to the 3 year churn it's a dead fish for me.
I got tired of all the gotcha moments, my models being sent to legends, and apparently having to know 18 different armies units or get “I misread my rules” every game.
Kia ora from New Zealand Jon, I'm gonna weigh in on the topic of the shooting reactions - I've been running events here in NZ for most of HH2 and we very early on decided to add some house rules to balance the shooting reactions. These were really well received by the community and has been really successful overall. The 2 main ones we have added are: Any single unit may only react once per turn. This means that a unit can't intercept, then return fire, then overwatch in the same turn. Secondly,, any infantry unit making a shooting attack as part of a reaction counts as having moved that turn. This means that Heavy weapons are generally snap firing (unless you have relentless eg. terminators etc. Which again has really helped provide less of a scenario of mutually assured destruction if you fire at a nasty shooting unit. We have a bunch of other house rules too which continue to promote interesting tactical choice. Happy to share if you're interested but keen to hear your thoughts on these fixes.
It would be nice if it was just an update, a la Necromunda's most recent release. I mean it takes me 3yrs at the rate I hobby to build and paint an army.
A huge number of 30k players are in the game because we are sick of the 40k new edition treadmill. If 30k goes that route we are just going to check out entirety.
Surely best of both worlds for shooting reactions is just to make HEAVY weapons react as Snap Firing. This also makes thematic sense - it's difficult to swing a massive lascannon round to bear, aim it and fire back as soon as you get shot at or charged but Assault/Rapid fire weapons are _designed_ to be able to react quickly at shorter ranges.
I'm very afraid. I hope they push the humble tac squad finally more on the foreground and limit terminator and elite spam. I want heresy to finally feel like the huge Legions clashing.
@Don_Juan89 you must have a very different meta to my group. No Terminator spam at all for me. I think tacs are in a great place especially when you add that most legion rules buff them in some way as well.
Hopes - It doesn't exist. Prayers - It doesn't exist. Rumours - It exists! 29.35 - It's easier for people getting in to it' - Nobody just gets in to Heresy in honesty. It's the game for people who have been in the hobby for years, I guarantee without checking (I'm guessing you guys can check this on analytics) that your average listener age is over 30. They have had enough of the GW/40k 3 year churn. So they turned to Heresy in the hope it will be closer to 10 years than 3 years. It takes a grown adult with other shit going on in their lives almost 3 years to build an army as they want it. Shit! I've been at it since HH2.0 came out and I'm just about at the point where I can field a proper 3k list! And I've been at it regularly. A full new edition of Heresy next year would be fantastic for content creators and their bottom line maybe, but I think it will be a shot in the head for the game system. All those older players that are using word of mouth to bring players to the Heresy tabletop will just give up, and they are players with big pockets who don't really care about the cost of models as much as the younger 40k crowd. I'm not a fan at all. My gaming group are nowhere near ready army wise, hobby wise or spending wise for a new edition. All they have to do is keep churning out plastic models and we will all buy whatever they chuck out at this point. Plastic javelins? Yup £$£$£$ plastic breachers? Yup £$£$£$ Plastic recon? Yup £$£$£$. p.s. You leave my Suzies alone! I've painted the bloody things now!
I agree with all of the above and vote that we petition the Emperor to put out an Edict to this effect. The book churn of the main games is such a fucking pain in the arse.
Also great video guys. Enjoyed that. Lee makes me laugh hard at times. His description of terminators Deep striking in a circle and shooting dickheads was spot on.
Three year edition churn is why I don't play 40K anymore and why I stopped bothering to try and build a Gloomspite army for Age of Sigmar. Granted I have a ton of Orks, but I get to play actual 40K mayyyybe twice a year, and that's not worth buying new sets of rulebooks every three years. AoS, I 100% cannot collect and paint fast enough to get in any games when I'm starting from practically scratch, and by the time I have an actual army together, two full editions have come and gone. No thank you. Heresy - I have plenty of painted Alpha Legion, it's just the pure principle of needing to buy new sets of rulebooks every three years that irks the hell out of me.
Dude I’ve been building/painting my world eaters since right before 2.0 came out and I’ve finally got a force ready to play and I’ve played like one game, can we wait until like 2030 for 3.0?
1. Alternate activations. Then you don´t need the reaction system. Your tanks will also live longer. 2. Overwatch. Learn from video games. Units which can do Overwatch are either infantry with small arms or vehicles with high Rof guns like assault cannons. 3. Introduction of a more punishing suppression system for infantry. Banish all or nothing resolution and do it like in Epic Armageddon with blast markers.
Took me 18 months to do my IW. I know a lot seem to spend much more time on the hobby/ build / paint in HH so a short life time of editions will probably be snnoying. Unless its like a 2.5 that is more like a solid faq type chsnge(s) rather than sweeping changes
Fearing those rumors about keeping everything *inside" the box and limiting conversions / boutique wargear, but the new melee weapon sprue doesnt support that anxiety, i think. Ive spent a lot of time and money on a truescale army and dont want it to be suddenly unplayable. So i guess minimal damage to existing hobbyists lol.
I'd like more granularity in PTS of models / upgrades. With many options they seem to tier them all together in 5-10-15... I'd prefer to see for instance the lascannon might cost 15pts, the multimelta might be 12, the plasma cannon 10, the autocannon and missile launcher 7...
I’d be into that too, 9th edition did that if I remember, like the power axe was like 7 points, they’ve already kinda done it with the 2 pt chain bayonets so hopefully it expands
I think a few of these fixed could be made by giving Legion Heavy Weapon squads Slow & Purposeful. They could move and shoot in the last edition. (Suspensor webs.) But stop them reacting with pinpoint accurate heavy weapons fire. It would mean people would take few of them, but they would still be seen. People would start to take more Tactical Support Squads for the special weapons which could still react. Heavy weapons squads are currently better costed than special weapons squads. The would redress the balance.
I was really hoping they would just fix the base game and not 40k it, what drew me to Heresy was the 10 year contract on books. Now yes, i do and can homebrew my own rules with the current set but shiny and new will always plague gaming tables. I hope for the best but i dropped 40k for the book turn over already, i don't want Heresy to meet that same fate.
On the shooting reaction front, a big issue is reaction, reaction reaction. That lascannon squad intercepts, then returns fire, then overwatches. It can fire three times in the opposing player's turn, which is wild. You may argue 'well don't shoot or charge it then' but that's an incredibly poor gameplay loop - directly attacking the high threat unit (the intuition and logical action) is often the wrong choice (in fact a trap). Existing shooting reactions warp gameplay around themselves.
Yeah I think each squad should have a single action per opponent turn, and that way you can also have certain squads or characters that break that with special rules.
Its a poor fix but since i'm a home game we limited to 1 shooting reaction per turn, you can use other types like move and shroud but shooting too often makes the game a slog for our melee folks.
For vehicles, to make it how Jon wants, just replace "Explodes" with "Roll a D6 - if the total is greater than the number of remaining hull points the vehicle has, it explodes; otherwise, the vehicle loses 2 hull points and may not move or shoot in its following turn." Flyers should not only have only snap shots fired at them, but they should get a REALLY good Shrouded save when they're zooming. Whether Skyfire just reduces that or negates it entirely is another debate, but they definitely need something. I don't mind Artificer tanking that much, but it does seem especially odd against blasts and things... S7 Brutal 2 Thunder Hammers at the same cost as fists would be pretty interesting... and make Fists a viable, instant-death-causing option.
@CygnusMaximusXIII I love that vehicle rule in honesty. Means your Spartan might blow up in later turns but helps it do its job of delivery in earlier turns. Not sure about not shooting. I'd say snap shots only.
Entertainingly I've literally just finished building my first 30k army, love the lore and building a lunar wolves army I wanted to play 30k as it's close to 7th edition 40k which I really enjoyed growing up Even if the 3rd edition changes everything to be like 8th I've got the rule books already so I'm excited for new models regardless of what comes
Hopes: that 3rd ed was a bad dream a false rumour and 2.0 would have a 10-year span like 1.0 did. Prayers: that all efforts invested in writing 3.0 would have been put onto the FAQ 2.0 needs Rumours: and very solid ones: 3.0 is real and will come your way in summer 25. Conclussion: GW is breaking the social contract with a significant tranche of HH players. That is providing a stable rule eco-system. Even more than 1.0, HH 2.0 has been the shelter where many old 40k players have gathered to have a system that allows to build armies that take years to complete, play games every 4 months and not have the rules, point values and missions changed. In my view, it doesn't really matter if the rules of 3.0 are better than 2.0 or not, the question is that I am not willing to be invested in a game having 3 year cycles like 40k and AoS. I assume GW makes more money releasing editions shortly after each other, otherwise I couldn't understand this decision. Maybe for content creators like you a new edition every 3 years also sounds like a good way to shake the pot and help drive views. I hope so for you, as you guys are nice to follow and consume your content, but I believe the current Heresy player base will be beaten and divided in smaller groups; those taking the leap to 3.0, some staying in 2.0 and another good chunk will move to the growing community of 5th ed 40k. Really heart breaking as this 2.0 player base is for me the best hobby community I have ever belonged to.
@@heresyhammerwhile true, *currently* its only the community stoking the embers of "new edition approaching fast!". No official GW channel has even hinted on a completely new Heresy edition iirc. Maybe the behind-the-scenes playtests and rumours arent as big as we might fear/hope and are really more of a slightly bigger FAQ and balance change than Heresy 2.5 or 3.
The game is being updated because the original testing was flawed Game testing groups let gw down. One of the testing groups were 40k competition players. Many had limited models and alot had aversion to flyers and superheavies. Many legions were biased in testing. This is an update to overhaul and rebalance the legions. Gw didn't want to touch the game for 10 years but had to after this debacle.
@@Instar_nine Doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way. I would not mind being able to use all those nice Tsons transfers and unused tamiya clear red I have to make an army and not immediately get crushed because my brain is too smooth.
I think you shouldn't be able to one shot a vehicle until is less than half HP, maybe a slightly revised vehicle damage table would resolve this. lascannons needs addressing whether its S5 AP3 on infantry and have a keyword that boosts them for vehicles., I think currently its just not even a decision for most legions not to take some lascannons other other heavy support squads. From a legion point of view, some legions have so many ways to add line to different units, would be nice to ensure everyone has some form of this, as currently friend who plays fists, makes all his heavy squads line, takes siggy and RoW so all templars are line. It just makes it so difficult to take points as its just 80% of list is line and also deadly. I do love reactions, really dont want to see them go away, but they need to tone down this, or mainly I think its lascannons again, you shoot them, you die, you charge them your dying. if you outflank or deepstrike near them you die. I'm sure there will be other offenders around this so again reacting with a unit once per turn might be a good idea potentially or if you react with them once on full BS then next time its hitting on 6's only. A lot of the legion traits / reactions are wildly out of whack, I dont want to take anyone's special stuff away, but they really need to try balance them better as it's heart breakingthat some of the reactions require you to roll to get them off, and then others are just off you go!
@heresyhammer Yeah, getting hit back on 5s is a bit too oppressive. It can make regular Terminators vs their unique counterparts feel really bad, for example. They should still loose, that's why you're paying for a unique unit, but the regular Terminators should still be able to do some meaningful damage into them before going down. It also works to indirectly tone down some of the overtuned elite units like Suzerains.
It’s a precarious situation because the rules do need some tweaks and improvements, but new edition fatigue is a massive drain on enthusiasm. I would be fine with a 2.5 rework, but a full blown edition reboot would be a huge ball ache.
Other general hope for the next edition: 1: Perfect balance is impossible: The aim should be to smooth the curve. Don't go down the 40K route and gear the game towards competitive or tournament rules. 2: Don't do a massive overhaul. Just tweak and improve. Don't start dropping stats from profiles like how 40K dropped Initiative. 3: Don't start cutting weapons options from units. Don't only allow what is in the box to be used on a model or unit. 4: Fix artillery, which has been crap this edition. Perhaps try having extra shell types. High explosive: Large Blast, Breaching 6+. Bunker Buster: Small Blast, Breaching 4+. (My major issues is that it affects game balance. Solar Auxilia and Militia aren't particularly good armies; they just have 3 good guns. Avoid Vanquisher, LD Rapier and Plasma Executioner spam by giving them more viable options. And who knows: we may see Vindicators with demolisher cannons again sometime...) 5: Keep Legends units available. Maybe even do some made-to-order runs of retired resin models. And fix some of the janky costings. I wouldn't mind if they were maybe 10% overcosted, as they might otherwise risk becoming auto-includes (GW are a company and do need to make SOME money by selling models), but where they are in some cases 20%+ overcosted they won't be taken. This hurts the more narrative and collegiate culture they clearly want to foster around Heresy, which the majority of the community clearly want as well.
For the deep strike conga line, simply specify that every model must be within X” coherency of 2-3 other models in the unit. Anyone who is conga lining in deepstrike right now needs a bit of a slap. 😊
What I would like to see:- - a refresh on some scenarios to add more variety and narrative into games. - Different battlefield conditions to the game other than night fighting... I want to play games with radiation storms and earth quakes from planets being subjected to orbital bombardment as you fight your battle! - A refresh on how we use fortifications.... I want to see more fortifications especially as they are such a big part of the Horus heresy narrative. - I don't want to see wound's and toughness like in 40k on vehicles - I would like to see them do something different with vehicles and reactions. My thoughts are that the decurions on the vehicles were a test of how this could be done. Let vehicles have more reactions or their own vehicle reactions. - I would like a refresh of the rights of war... Some are too good while others are barely seen (I speak as a night lord with a major addiction to terror assault!) - equity between deep strike flank attacks subterrainan assault - a bit of work to bring flyers into the game more
I’ve heard a lot of detail about 3.0 from very credible sources. Three main takeaways: - It’s going to be the final update to the core rules for a significant time - Rules are getting more granular and narratively focused. It’s definitely 3.0 and not 2.5 - Feedback from community play testers is being listened to (box locking load outs was an example which received significant push back and was rescinded) I was skeptical about a new edition until I heard about the changes and I’m now really hyped
I really don't want a new edition. If there had to be one, I would want a mix of 1.0 and 2.0 with a 80:20 mix. Most of the core mechanics of 1.0 are fine, it was the balancing of stuff like artillery that made certain armies unfun. Now we have rules like Breaching and Rending (x+), we could easily tone down the OP weapons with changing AP.
I had an idea on how to solve the popping tanks in 1 shot. My suggestion was that if a tank has 1-2 hp then then damage table is as normal. If the tank has 3-4 hp then you get -1 to the damage table (so still possible with ap1 but not likely). If 5+ hp then -2 to the damage table. Maybe make the ranges 1-3, 4-5, 6+ instead. Alternatively maybe if above X hp then roll 2 dice on the damage chart and take the lowest.
AP 3 breaching 4+ demolishers are fine with a 5” blast. 1:15:27 But GW wants to sell those $100 for 5 terminators so…. We got the size nerf, ap nerf, double terminator wound characteristic AND addition of heavy subtype? How is a vindicator 120 points exactly?
It's not that the rules text needs to be reduced, we need them to be clear and detailed so a reduction does not equal better rules. The problem is that GW makes run on sentences that lack punctuation, leading to different interpretations. If not that, then they need to start using bulleted lists to clearly illustrate different subsections of what the rule is trying to do or interact with. More timing charts, more structured rules in a better layout in the book.
What id hate the most would be if they made box content type rules like 40k. It would nuke virtually everyones armies imo. Best thing i want is a fix to vehicles to make them more durable, a fix to brutal mechanics and tweaks to poor legion tactics / reactions etc
@heresyhammer I just dont think the hobby side or the rules side need huge sweeping changes. More like 6th into 7th 40k. 80% of heresy(rules) is great I think,10% needs tweaks,10% needs a solid fix.
The problem is that everyone wants a narratively driven and distinct game full of cool and unique interactions between units and encourages story byilding between players. Everyone also wants every unit to be equally viable, there to be no "broken units" and for appropriate points cost across the board. Everyone also wants the first set of rules and points to be spot on and not change at any point during the edition. Also the edition has to be the same as it currently is for things like AP values, Armour Values, leadership and pinning etc. Theres an inherrent tension in all these desires, and some people will say that 3rd edition ruined their hobby no matter what the games designers do or don't do. Personally I dont mind what they do as long as GW interacts with it infrequently for balance patches and FAQs. So many of the problem units in 30k (both good and bad) could be fixed, rather than having your favourite unit suck (or be so powerful you feel like 'that guy' bringing them) for three years
Augury scanner 300pts. a pop. Reactions solved 😂. But honestly, the main problem seems to be reactions (as in multiple), so why not just cap it att 1 reactions, maybe with the exception that the legion specific one use only reaction can be played in addition to any other reaction. That way reactions are still a thing, but no longer do they dictate the entire "playable" meta.
Book layout needs a huge fix if anything. Trying to find one rule and working out right this special rule is it in rulebook or you army book. Real scatter gun approach
Easy fix is heavy weapons react at a lower BS when in the hands of a marine. BS -2 so at least elite units still have a marginal upgrade would be a nice compromise.
hello, a small reflection coming from French players, the HH games was a springboard here for two reasons,rules "old w40k" and that they have been translated. So the consensus here is that it is a V3 or a V2.5 , is what remains translated and that the game does not go towards the competitive (balancing,less option, simplification has excess of rules, loss of the essence of an army.) HH has the wonderful opportunity to bring together players from any country who play 99% of the same way,(what has changed to 40k for example!)
My hope is no new edition just a rebalance that coincides with the sunsetting of the old rulebooks and liber books and their replacement with soft cover severely streamlined rules pamphlets (yes they can charge £15+ if they want and £30 for the rulebook. These would contain the new (otherwise freely available pdf) rebalances and rules errata plus all legacies/exemplaries (willing to see some legacies get binned provided they are curated well). The good thing about this would be that technically the old rulebooks that contained lore and illustrations would actually have some value until any proper reset they want to do 5+ years down the road. Lots of thoughts about rules changes but tbh the main thing is that i think the 'WS5 Experiment' was interesting but has failed, the game should immediately transition to the WS chart seen in The Old World. Just removes a ton of list optimisation, meta-chasing bollocks, even if it was quite fun tbh. Game design wise having WS as such an overt damage mitigation layer just sucks and slows down the game, it should be very soft defensively (though ofc you can spec in with flat -1's sonic shriekers etc) but still be able to tip the scale in offense i.e. the tried and true 20+ years of warhammer method
Vehicles absolutely need more hull points or the damage table needs to be overhauled. Probably both. And just get rid of challenges altogether. Never liked that in all my years of WH.
Change nothing is my preference. If you change anything, make vehicles cheaper points wise to validate their relatively short lifespan with the abundance of ap 1 and 2 in the average game
god i hope it doesn't become core like 40k i can really do without a game that's released every 3 years with codex books every round as well, i don't want the creep and meta that defines playing 40k, at the age of 50 ive been involved with Gw since the age of 11, i know i`m near the end of my ability to collect and the hassle of keeping up with the game. I just want a stable game that i can keep playing, collect the odd new miniature and afford to put my gas on every so often i would be happy with a yearly published update and a new rule book every 5 years with all the changes made consolidating the updates in to the main rulebook, call it rulebook 2.1, 2.2 etc
Any reduction in conversions and kitbashing is unacceptable to me (And anyone else with taste). I didn't drop 40k halfway through painting multiple armies because I liked the simplification and homogenization, I don't want to play the post belt sander version of 30k, and more importantly I don't want to give GW money for that, It's bad enough that they might want me to buy more books after playing a handful of second edition games, (Might still do it if they do away the the words per dollar rules writing) but if they take away the hobby aspect in addition to the list building like they did with 40k, I will be out. I genuinely don't know who that is meant to appeal to, it won't make them more money, because people who play heresy already won't like it, and people who don't already play 30k will see that it's basically 40k but with most of the factions missing.
how to fix tanks, Tanks already have wounds, they are called Hull Points, Hull Points = wounds, so give tanks an armour save. Ive been saying this since 7th edition when they added Hull Points
But the AP of the majority of weapons able to remove a hull point would normally negate the majority of armour saves, no? Especially taking into account rending and breaching. Like the thought process though 👍
@@heresyhammer yes and no, AP1 is always going to be a pure anti tank gun but things like AP2 less so, there is no resin why a land raider couldnt have a 2+ save and add a rule like reinforced hull, to always be -1 ap, gives the big tanks way more staying power on the table with out a massive change to the core rules. This would mean a 6 hull point Spartan, has a 2+ save that is -1 ap, meaning its been hit at best by a AP2 weapon, it does blunt the teeth of those lascannons.
@@heresyhammer its not going to make Tanks like unkillable bricks but it might mean they dont get nuked turn one from a few lucky lascannon shots. Plus its better than having a T16 tank with 18 wounds driving around.
I do want to see the weapon skill chart changed. It's too much of a penalty when a unit's weapons skill is 1 higher then the opponents. Like a WS 4 unit should hit a WS 5 unit on a 4+.
I don't want a new edition and I won't be financially supporting one. We don't want a 3 year cycle. Give us new campaign books at the same quality and content as Siege of Cthonia. Give us a few point changes for a few very egregious units who need it. That's it. Heresy 2nd still has loads of life in it.
Don't love how the title advertised rumours, and then when talk of actual rumours in the community came up the hosts shied away to discuss what's actually been floating around... Would have added meat to the conversation rather than a bunch of wishlist stuff.
What I want: 1. A more balanced next edition 2. A serious attempt to level the playingfield between legion/faction support. 3. Changes to reactions so "Return fire" isn't the boogyman it currently is. 4. Fixed and thought-through USR's. No anti-grav that can go over buildings, but not over models for instance. 5. "Make Bikes Great Again" 6. As little influence from editions 8 to 10th as possible Small things: - Khan at WS8! Where he belongs - Fox Coils of the Hydra! - Power down Dreads, Suzerains, Imperial Fists, PoM Thanatar and Myrmidons
Thanks for the great episode and the shout-out. 1 thing I would like which 40k and AoS have and I would love in HH (don't burn me at the stake). I would like the yearly update book they brought out (I think in AoS it was "The Generals Handbook"). This gave a shake up of the PTS and a few rules where they found issues of balance. Though they might have done away with that now they are giving away digital codes with books for their app for PTS.
Can't see it getting the "new edition every three years" treatment 40k does, and I don't want that either. Way too much churn going on with that short of a cycle. I can see it getting an update sooner than later though as the current edition has a couple of glaring issues. What I dislike the most about the current edition is that some legions have had those layers within layers of army list building removed, whilst others (Fists...the fucking fists and their million options for every type of gameplay) have kept them.
GW is moving to a 4 year cycle now due to the sheer quantity of games they have. Was spoken about recently in one of their hang outs and at one of the events. (USA event cant remember the one) but saying that we see this with 40k being slowly released as its nearly year 2 now and they have only half the codex released or just over. But saying this. 4 years is ok. Heresy is similar to me of Lotr MESBG in that the rules are set. And the small bits we see changed will be small. Not a shake uo like aos or 40k in that last change. I play all game systems and so far i think MESBG and Heresy are the most 'balanced' but i think thats the community also helping make it not gamey
I don't want another edition especially since GW can't iron out the rules they have right now. How about some friggin' praetor/consul models for legions that STILL have none!?
If its selling well, they'll change rules for changes sake and want repeat sales every 3 years. We are perilously close to seeing Heresy turn into 40k (which is a shit show). I hope its an update.
I couldn't care any less how often edition changes occur. The setting is what I am here for. Whether or not I'm rolling dice to a different chart doesn't bother me. Besides, there's a lot of cleaning up to do for the rules. A whole hell of a lot more than just a bi-annual errata/faq can handle. I hope it brings more players in, too. Overall I'm positive for it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
To not have an edition that changes every 2 years and to maybe actually get some praetors for other legions.
Yes, bring on the Warsmiths!
The constant bombardment of rules changes is what drove me out of 40K. I hope it can be just an update.
We’re hopeful for a 2.5 - rather than a 3.0
@matthewsprinkle7681 were all 40k rejects! GW staff have told me over and over that nobody starts their journey with Heresy. Its where the older more mature hobbyists usually find a home. If it gets added to the 3 year churn it's a dead fish for me.
I got tired of all the gotcha moments, my models being sent to legends, and apparently having to know 18 different armies units or get “I misread my rules” every game.
Also bought a few Heresy models during 8th being told they were usable in both just to have that taken away in a few months after
Kia ora from New Zealand Jon, I'm gonna weigh in on the topic of the shooting reactions - I've been running events here in NZ for most of HH2 and we very early on decided to add some house rules to balance the shooting reactions. These were really well received by the community and has been really successful overall.
The 2 main ones we have added are:
Any single unit may only react once per turn. This means that a unit can't intercept, then return fire, then overwatch in the same turn.
Secondly,, any infantry unit making a shooting attack as part of a reaction counts as having moved that turn. This means that Heavy weapons are generally snap firing (unless you have relentless eg. terminators etc. Which again has really helped provide less of a scenario of mutually assured destruction if you fire at a nasty shooting unit.
We have a bunch of other house rules too which continue to promote interesting tactical choice. Happy to share if you're interested but keen to hear your thoughts on these fixes.
It would be nice if it was just an update, a la Necromunda's most recent release. I mean it takes me 3yrs at the rate I hobby to build and paint an army.
A huge number of 30k players are in the game because we are sick of the 40k new edition treadmill. If 30k goes that route we are just going to check out entirety.
I’m hopeful that the studio is cognisant of this
Surely best of both worlds for shooting reactions is just to make HEAVY weapons react as Snap Firing. This also makes thematic sense - it's difficult to swing a massive lascannon round to bear, aim it and fire back as soon as you get shot at or charged but Assault/Rapid fire weapons are _designed_ to be able to react quickly at shorter ranges.
I'm very afraid. I hope they push the humble tac squad finally more on the foreground and limit terminator and elite spam. I want heresy to finally feel like the huge Legions clashing.
Chads on chads!
@Don_Juan89 you must have a very different meta to my group. No Terminator spam at all for me. I think tacs are in a great place especially when you add that most legion rules buff them in some way as well.
@@shadeofheresyI second this. My meta is typically 80 to 120 tac marines
@@ChopsAUSTRALIA I need more marines!
Hopes - It doesn't exist. Prayers - It doesn't exist. Rumours - It exists! 29.35 - It's easier for people getting in to it' - Nobody just gets in to Heresy in honesty. It's the game for people who have been in the hobby for years, I guarantee without checking (I'm guessing you guys can check this on analytics) that your average listener age is over 30. They have had enough of the GW/40k 3 year churn. So they turned to Heresy in the hope it will be closer to 10 years than 3 years. It takes a grown adult with other shit going on in their lives almost 3 years to build an army as they want it. Shit! I've been at it since HH2.0 came out and I'm just about at the point where I can field a proper 3k list! And I've been at it regularly. A full new edition of Heresy next year would be fantastic for content creators and their bottom line maybe, but I think it will be a shot in the head for the game system. All those older players that are using word of mouth to bring players to the Heresy tabletop will just give up, and they are players with big pockets who don't really care about the cost of models as much as the younger 40k crowd. I'm not a fan at all. My gaming group are nowhere near ready army wise, hobby wise or spending wise for a new edition. All they have to do is keep churning out plastic models and we will all buy whatever they chuck out at this point. Plastic javelins? Yup £$£$£$ plastic breachers? Yup £$£$£$ Plastic recon? Yup £$£$£$. p.s. You leave my Suzies alone! I've painted the bloody things now!
😂😂😂
Reactions are the best bit of HH2.0 Your engaged in your opponents turn rather than 'Right that's me done, I'll sit down whilst you obliterate me'.
I agree with all of the above and vote that we petition the Emperor to put out an Edict to this effect. The book churn of the main games is such a fucking pain in the arse.
Also great video guys. Enjoyed that. Lee makes me laugh hard at times. His description of terminators Deep striking in a circle and shooting dickheads was spot on.
Three year edition churn is why I don't play 40K anymore and why I stopped bothering to try and build a Gloomspite army for Age of Sigmar. Granted I have a ton of Orks, but I get to play actual 40K mayyyybe twice a year, and that's not worth buying new sets of rulebooks every three years. AoS, I 100% cannot collect and paint fast enough to get in any games when I'm starting from practically scratch, and by the time I have an actual army together, two full editions have come and gone. No thank you.
Heresy - I have plenty of painted Alpha Legion, it's just the pure principle of needing to buy new sets of rulebooks every three years that irks the hell out of me.
Dude I’ve been building/painting my world eaters since right before 2.0 came out and I’ve finally got a force ready to play and I’ve played like one game, can we wait until like 2030 for 3.0?
🙏
1. Alternate activations. Then you don´t need the reaction system. Your tanks will also live longer.
2. Overwatch. Learn from video games. Units which can do Overwatch are either infantry with small arms or vehicles with high Rof guns like assault cannons.
3. Introduction of a more punishing suppression system for infantry. Banish all or nothing resolution and do it like in Epic Armageddon with blast markers.
Took me 18 months to do my IW. I know a lot seem to spend much more time on the hobby/ build / paint in HH so a short life time of editions will probably be snnoying.
Unless its like a 2.5 that is more like a solid faq type chsnge(s) rather than sweeping changes
That’s the great hope
Fearing those rumors about keeping everything *inside" the box and limiting conversions / boutique wargear, but the new melee weapon sprue doesnt support that anxiety, i think. Ive spent a lot of time and money on a truescale army and dont want it to be suddenly unplayable.
So i guess minimal damage to existing hobbyists lol.
Definitely a great comment. As we mentioned in the video, the game is only a small part of a much wider hobby
I'd like more granularity in PTS of models / upgrades.
With many options they seem to tier them all together in 5-10-15...
I'd prefer to see for instance the lascannon might cost 15pts, the multimelta might be 12, the plasma cannon 10, the autocannon and missile launcher 7...
I’d be into that too, 9th edition did that if I remember, like the power axe was like 7 points, they’ve already kinda done it with the 2 pt chain bayonets so hopefully it expands
I think a few of these fixed could be made by giving Legion Heavy Weapon squads Slow & Purposeful.
They could move and shoot in the last edition. (Suspensor webs.)
But stop them reacting with pinpoint accurate heavy weapons fire.
It would mean people would take few of them, but they would still be seen.
People would start to take more Tactical Support Squads for the special weapons which could still react.
Heavy weapons squads are currently better costed than special weapons squads. The would redress the balance.
I was really hoping they would just fix the base game and not 40k it, what drew me to Heresy was the 10 year contract on books. Now yes, i do and can homebrew my own rules with the current set but shiny and new will always plague gaming tables. I hope for the best but i dropped 40k for the book turn over already, i don't want Heresy to meet that same fate.
On the shooting reaction front, a big issue is reaction, reaction reaction.
That lascannon squad intercepts, then returns fire, then overwatches. It can fire three times in the opposing player's turn, which is wild.
You may argue 'well don't shoot or charge it then' but that's an incredibly poor gameplay loop - directly attacking the high threat unit (the intuition and logical action) is often the wrong choice (in fact a trap).
Existing shooting reactions warp gameplay around themselves.
Yeah I think each squad should have a single action per opponent turn, and that way you can also have certain squads or characters that break that with special rules.
💯
Its a poor fix but since i'm a home game we limited to 1 shooting reaction per turn, you can use other types like move and shroud but shooting too often makes the game a slog for our melee folks.
I'd just make all reactions of s7+ snapfire rather.
Would be a quick easy fix faq type solution
@@Hermit_hobby heavy volkites?
For vehicles, to make it how Jon wants, just replace "Explodes" with "Roll a D6 - if the total is greater than the number of remaining hull points the vehicle has, it explodes; otherwise, the vehicle loses 2 hull points and may not move or shoot in its following turn."
Flyers should not only have only snap shots fired at them, but they should get a REALLY good Shrouded save when they're zooming. Whether Skyfire just reduces that or negates it entirely is another debate, but they definitely need something.
I don't mind Artificer tanking that much, but it does seem especially odd against blasts and things...
S7 Brutal 2 Thunder Hammers at the same cost as fists would be pretty interesting... and make Fists a viable, instant-death-causing option.
@CygnusMaximusXIII I love that vehicle rule in honesty. Means your Spartan might blow up in later turns but helps it do its job of delivery in earlier turns. Not sure about not shooting. I'd say snap shots only.
@@shadeofheresy - snap shots work for me.
As an RG player.....Corax really need an update to this anti-armour ability....now he can only glance Av12, it's embarrassing
😬😬😬 yeah, bless him
Entertainingly I've literally just finished building my first 30k army, love the lore and building a lunar wolves army
I wanted to play 30k as it's close to 7th edition 40k which I really enjoyed growing up
Even if the 3rd edition changes everything to be like 8th I've got the rule books already so I'm excited for new models regardless of what comes
Hopes: that 3rd ed was a bad dream a false rumour and 2.0 would have a 10-year span like 1.0 did.
Prayers: that all efforts invested in writing 3.0 would have been put onto the FAQ 2.0 needs
Rumours: and very solid ones: 3.0 is real and will come your way in summer 25.
Conclussion: GW is breaking the social contract with a significant tranche of HH players. That is providing a stable rule eco-system. Even more than 1.0, HH 2.0 has been the shelter where many old 40k players have gathered to have a system that allows to build armies that take years to complete, play games every 4 months and not have the rules, point values and missions changed.
In my view, it doesn't really matter if the rules of 3.0 are better than 2.0 or not, the question is that I am not willing to be invested in a game having 3 year cycles like 40k and AoS. I assume GW makes more money releasing editions shortly after each other, otherwise I couldn't understand this decision. Maybe for content creators like you a new edition every 3 years also sounds like a good way to shake the pot and help drive views. I hope so for you, as you guys are nice to follow and consume your content, but I believe the current Heresy player base will be beaten and divided in smaller groups; those taking the leap to 3.0, some staying in 2.0 and another good chunk will move to the growing community of 5th ed 40k. Really heart breaking as this 2.0 player base is for me the best hobby community I have ever belonged to.
I do not want Heresy to become like the other games, keep it as is and give us a balance update. I will just play 1.0 or OPR if we get a new edition
The cycle does feel fast, especially for a game like Heresy that managed well with a perceived ‘old’ ruleset for such a long time
@@heresyhammerwhile true, *currently* its only the community stoking the embers of "new edition approaching fast!".
No official GW channel has even hinted on a completely new Heresy edition iirc.
Maybe the behind-the-scenes playtests and rumours arent as big as we might fear/hope and are really more of a slightly bigger FAQ and balance change than Heresy 2.5 or 3.
The game is being updated because the original testing was flawed
Game testing groups let gw down. One of the testing groups were 40k competition players. Many had limited models and alot had aversion to flyers and superheavies. Many legions were biased in testing. This is an update to overhaul and rebalance the legions. Gw didn't want to touch the game for 10 years but had to after this debacle.
@@Instar_nine Doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way. I would not mind being able to use all those nice Tsons transfers and unused tamiya clear red I have to make an army and not immediately get crushed because my brain is too smooth.
I think you shouldn't be able to one shot a vehicle until is less than half HP, maybe a slightly revised vehicle damage table would resolve this.
lascannons needs addressing whether its S5 AP3 on infantry and have a keyword that boosts them for vehicles., I think currently its just not even a decision for most legions not to take some lascannons other other heavy support squads.
From a legion point of view, some legions have so many ways to add line to different units, would be nice to ensure everyone has some form of this, as currently friend who plays fists, makes all his heavy squads line, takes siggy and RoW so all templars are line. It just makes it so difficult to take points as its just 80% of list is line and also deadly.
I do love reactions, really dont want to see them go away, but they need to tone down this, or mainly I think its lascannons again, you shoot them, you die, you charge them your dying. if you outflank or deepstrike near them you die. I'm sure there will be other offenders around this so again reacting with a unit once per turn might be a good idea potentially or if you react with them once on full BS then next time its hitting on 6's only.
A lot of the legion traits / reactions are wildly out of whack, I dont want to take anyone's special stuff away, but they really need to try balance them better as it's heart breakingthat some of the reactions require you to roll to get them off, and then others are just off you go!
I'm actually hoping we don't see a 3rd edition, I don't want constant rules updates and erratas.
After thinking about it, one of the big changes I'd like to see is a tweek to weapon skill so WS5 isn't such and all or nothing oppressive difference.
Hit on 3s vs WS4, be hit back on 4s?
@heresyhammer
Yeah, getting hit back on 5s is a bit too oppressive. It can make regular Terminators vs their unique counterparts feel really bad, for example. They should still loose, that's why you're paying for a unique unit, but the regular Terminators should still be able to do some meaningful damage into them before going down.
It also works to indirectly tone down some of the overtuned elite units like Suzerains.
It’s a precarious situation because the rules do need some tweaks and improvements, but new edition fatigue is a massive drain on enthusiasm. I would be fine with a 2.5 rework, but a full blown edition reboot would be a huge ball ache.
Yeah, that’s a very well rounded opinion
I moved over to Heresy back in May after GW ruined 40K for me. Whatever they do I hope they don’t simplify it.
Yeah, the nuances make the game
Other general hope for the next edition:
1: Perfect balance is impossible: The aim should be to smooth the curve. Don't go down the 40K route and gear the game towards competitive or tournament rules.
2: Don't do a massive overhaul. Just tweak and improve. Don't start dropping stats from profiles like how 40K dropped Initiative.
3: Don't start cutting weapons options from units. Don't only allow what is in the box to be used on a model or unit.
4: Fix artillery, which has been crap this edition. Perhaps try having extra shell types. High explosive: Large Blast, Breaching 6+. Bunker Buster: Small Blast, Breaching 4+. (My major issues is that it affects game balance. Solar Auxilia and Militia aren't particularly good armies; they just have 3 good guns. Avoid Vanquisher, LD Rapier and Plasma Executioner spam by giving them more viable options. And who knows: we may see Vindicators with demolisher cannons again sometime...)
5: Keep Legends units available. Maybe even do some made-to-order runs of retired resin models. And fix some of the janky costings. I wouldn't mind if they were maybe 10% overcosted, as they might otherwise risk becoming auto-includes (GW are a company and do need to make SOME money by selling models), but where they are in some cases 20%+ overcosted they won't be taken. This hurts the more narrative and collegiate culture they clearly want to foster around Heresy, which the majority of the community clearly want as well.
For the deep strike conga line, simply specify that every model must be within X” coherency of 2-3 other models in the unit. Anyone who is conga lining in deepstrike right now needs a bit of a slap. 😊
Correct
What I would like to see:-
- a refresh on some scenarios to add more variety and narrative into games.
- Different battlefield conditions to the game other than night fighting... I want to play games with radiation storms and earth quakes from planets being subjected to orbital bombardment as you fight your battle!
- A refresh on how we use fortifications.... I want to see more fortifications especially as they are such a big part of the Horus heresy narrative.
- I don't want to see wound's and toughness like in 40k on vehicles
- I would like to see them do something different with vehicles and reactions. My thoughts are that the decurions on the vehicles were a test of how this could be done. Let vehicles have more reactions or their own vehicle reactions.
- I would like a refresh of the rights of war... Some are too good while others are barely seen (I speak as a night lord with a major addiction to terror assault!)
- equity between deep strike flank attacks subterrainan assault
- a bit of work to bring flyers into the game more
I would like to play this game.
I’ve heard a lot of detail about 3.0 from very credible sources.
Three main takeaways:
- It’s going to be the final update to the core rules for a significant time
- Rules are getting more granular and narratively focused. It’s definitely 3.0 and not 2.5
- Feedback from community play testers is being listened to (box locking load outs was an example which received significant push back and was rescinded)
I was skeptical about a new edition until I heard about the changes and I’m now really hyped
A couple of changes to reactions are needed. The return fire reaction should be after casualties have been removed. Each unit can only once per turn.
Agreed.
To not have more of my armies wargear options squatted after being modeled
Our hope is that this won’t now be the case
I really don't want a new edition. If there had to be one, I would want a mix of 1.0 and 2.0 with a 80:20 mix. Most of the core mechanics of 1.0 are fine, it was the balancing of stuff like artillery that made certain armies unfun. Now we have rules like Breaching and Rending (x+), we could easily tone down the OP weapons with changing AP.
I had an idea on how to solve the popping tanks in 1 shot.
My suggestion was that if a tank has 1-2 hp then then damage table is as normal. If the tank has 3-4 hp then you get -1 to the damage table (so still possible with ap1 but not likely). If 5+ hp then -2 to the damage table.
Maybe make the ranges 1-3, 4-5, 6+ instead.
Alternatively maybe if above X hp then roll 2 dice on the damage chart and take the lowest.
The -1 would be good if it was reinforced as a bolted on rule
🙏They fix thousand sons so that units don't become a liability if the sergeant gets sniped.
Yeah, bless those guys
AP 3 breaching 4+ demolishers are fine with a 5” blast. 1:15:27 But GW wants to sell those $100 for 5 terminators so…. We got the size nerf, ap nerf, double terminator wound characteristic AND addition of heavy subtype? How is a vindicator 120 points exactly?
It's not that the rules text needs to be reduced, we need them to be clear and detailed so a reduction does not equal better rules. The problem is that GW makes run on sentences that lack punctuation, leading to different interpretations. If not that, then they need to start using bulleted lists to clearly illustrate different subsections of what the rule is trying to do or interact with. More timing charts, more structured rules in a better layout in the book.
I think we mentioned it in the vid, but for complicated rules, a designers’ commentary would be great
What id hate the most would be if they made box content type rules like 40k.
It would nuke virtually everyones armies imo.
Best thing i want is a fix to vehicles to make them more durable, a fix to brutal mechanics and tweaks to poor legion tactics / reactions etc
Evolution as opposed to Revolution?
@heresyhammer I just dont think the hobby side or the rules side need huge sweeping changes.
More like 6th into 7th 40k.
80% of heresy(rules) is great I think,10% needs tweaks,10% needs a solid fix.
I would like models for sisters of silence
The problem is that everyone wants a narratively driven and distinct game full of cool and unique interactions between units and encourages story byilding between players.
Everyone also wants every unit to be equally viable, there to be no "broken units" and for appropriate points cost across the board.
Everyone also wants the first set of rules and points to be spot on and not change at any point during the edition. Also the edition has to be the same as it currently is for things like AP values, Armour Values, leadership and pinning etc.
Theres an inherrent tension in all these desires, and some people will say that 3rd edition ruined their hobby no matter what the games designers do or don't do.
Personally I dont mind what they do as long as GW interacts with it infrequently for balance patches and FAQs. So many of the problem units in 30k (both good and bad) could be fixed, rather than having your favourite unit suck (or be so powerful you feel like 'that guy' bringing them) for three years
For heresy 3 I want them to move away from "you can only build what's in the box" and give us back our wargear options
Augury scanner 300pts. a pop. Reactions solved 😂.
But honestly, the main problem seems to be reactions (as in multiple), so why not just cap it att 1 reactions, maybe with the exception that the legion specific one use only reaction can be played in addition to any other reaction. That way reactions are still a thing, but no longer do they dictate the entire "playable" meta.
Book layout needs a huge fix if anything. Trying to find one rule and working out right this special rule is it in rulebook or you army book. Real scatter gun approach
I just hope they will fix Atrapos and make it worth its 500p. And a proper rebalance to Dreads.
Get rid of the stupid cumbersome rule and it's good to go
Congaline is fine. So many DS counters out there anyway. Removing that because someone forgot to bring aug scanners/MoS.
Conga is still antithetical to the spirit of heresy. It's sad that it needs to be said.
Plastic melee weapons kits with 20 chainswords per box.
Gotta keep those hopes alive
One thing I would really like to see (but don't think I will) is rules for Indomitus Praetors, Centurions and Command Squads.
Yeah, I suspect they’re probably towards the back of the queue
Easy fix is heavy weapons react at a lower BS when in the hands of a marine. BS -2 so at least elite units still have a marginal upgrade would be a nice compromise.
hello, a small reflection coming from French players, the HH games was a springboard here for two reasons,rules "old w40k" and that they have been translated.
So the consensus here is that it is a V3 or a V2.5 , is what remains translated and that the game does not go towards the competitive (balancing,less option, simplification has excess of rules, loss of the essence of an army.)
HH has the wonderful opportunity to bring together players from any country who play 99% of the same way,(what has changed to 40k for example!)
Thanks for the views from France. Consider yourself official French Correspondent
My hope is no new edition just a rebalance that coincides with the sunsetting of the old rulebooks and liber books and their replacement with soft cover severely streamlined rules pamphlets (yes they can charge £15+ if they want and £30 for the rulebook. These would contain the new (otherwise freely available pdf) rebalances and rules errata plus all legacies/exemplaries (willing to see some legacies get binned provided they are curated well). The good thing about this would be that technically the old rulebooks that contained lore and illustrations would actually have some value until any proper reset they want to do 5+ years down the road.
Lots of thoughts about rules changes but tbh the main thing is that i think the 'WS5 Experiment' was interesting but has failed, the game should immediately transition to the WS chart seen in The Old World. Just removes a ton of list optimisation, meta-chasing bollocks, even if it was quite fun tbh. Game design wise having WS as such an overt damage mitigation layer just sucks and slows down the game, it should be very soft defensively (though ofc you can spec in with flat -1's sonic shriekers etc) but still be able to tip the scale in offense i.e. the tried and true 20+ years of warhammer method
There's tiny little men in the corner of my slideshow presentation!!
Watch on a bigger screen ;)
😂@@heresyhammer
Vehicles absolutely need more hull points or the damage table needs to be overhauled. Probably both. And just get rid of challenges altogether. Never liked that in all my years of WH.
Change nothing is my preference. If you change anything, make vehicles cheaper points wise to validate their relatively short lifespan with the abundance of ap 1 and 2 in the average game
god i hope it doesn't become core like 40k i can really do without a game that's released every 3 years with codex books every round as well, i don't want the creep and meta that defines playing 40k, at the age of 50 ive been involved with Gw since the age of 11, i know i`m near the end of my ability to collect and the hassle of keeping up with the game. I just want a stable game that i can keep playing, collect the odd new miniature and afford to put my gas on every so often
i would be happy with a yearly published update and a new rule book every 5 years with all the changes made consolidating the updates in to the main rulebook, call it rulebook 2.1, 2.2 etc
Will posting to NI become a problem going forward??
For Patreon rewards? Nope
Any reduction in conversions and kitbashing is unacceptable to me (And anyone else with taste). I didn't drop 40k halfway through painting multiple armies because I liked the simplification and homogenization, I don't want to play the post belt sander version of 30k, and more importantly I don't want to give GW money for that, It's bad enough that they might want me to buy more books after playing a handful of second edition games, (Might still do it if they do away the the words per dollar rules writing) but if they take away the hobby aspect in addition to the list building like they did with 40k, I will be out.
I genuinely don't know who that is meant to appeal to, it won't make them more money, because people who play heresy already won't like it, and people who don't already play 30k will see that it's basically 40k but with most of the factions missing.
how to fix tanks, Tanks already have wounds, they are called Hull Points, Hull Points = wounds, so give tanks an armour save. Ive been saying this since 7th edition when they added Hull Points
But the AP of the majority of weapons able to remove a hull point would normally negate the majority of armour saves, no? Especially taking into account rending and breaching. Like the thought process though 👍
@@heresyhammer yes and no, AP1 is always going to be a pure anti tank gun but things like AP2 less so, there is no resin why a land raider couldnt have a 2+ save and add a rule like reinforced hull, to always be -1 ap, gives the big tanks way more staying power on the table with out a massive change to the core rules. This would mean a 6 hull point Spartan, has a 2+ save that is -1 ap, meaning its been hit at best by a AP2 weapon, it does blunt the teeth of those lascannons.
@@heresyhammer its not going to make Tanks like unkillable bricks but it might mean they dont get nuked turn one from a few lucky lascannon shots. Plus its better than having a T16 tank with 18 wounds driving around.
Fix Thousand Sons
Done, happy
Make Prospero Great Again
@@heresyhammer hahaha. I'm making a t-shirt!
I hope they make Dreadnaughts stronger, they need a buff
My guy!
I don't want to see new edition. Don't need the rush job of 40k.
Templars crusade is doing rules for Joy Toy heresy marines
Best get some Sacrus Mundus terrain printed up big scale!
Keep reactions, but tone them down a bit. And yes, make MFUA!
And pls make Thunder Hammer s7 And keep brutal 2 on it, then there is a reason to take Power Fist again
SO they are making 30k into 40k 10th ed. Way to kill your game. /spit
I hope they don’t come out with a new edition when we still don’t have plastic recon marines, bleachers, saber’s, other secarian loadouts, etc.
I do want to see the weapon skill chart changed. It's too much of a penalty when a unit's weapons skill is 1 higher then the opponents. Like a WS 4 unit should hit a WS 5 unit on a 4+.
I don't want a new edition and I won't be financially supporting one.
We don't want a 3 year cycle. Give us new campaign books at the same quality and content as Siege of Cthonia. Give us a few point changes for a few very egregious units who need it. That's it. Heresy 2nd still has loads of life in it.
Impossible to disagree
Make Outflank random sides again.
Give the sallies a buff to melta or Ap2 flamers!!!!
I'd be happy with Breaching on their flamers.
Not sure about meltas. Exoshock?
A bonus but not overpowered
@@vincentliu8995 breaching would be great yeah.
Don't love how the title advertised rumours, and then when talk of actual rumours in the community came up the hosts shied away to discuss what's actually been floating around... Would have added meat to the conversation rather than a bunch of wishlist stuff.
Safe to say we’re planning a part 2
What I want:
1. A more balanced next edition
2. A serious attempt to level the playingfield between legion/faction support.
3. Changes to reactions so "Return fire" isn't the boogyman it currently is.
4. Fixed and thought-through USR's. No anti-grav that can go over buildings, but not over models for instance.
5. "Make Bikes Great Again"
6. As little influence from editions 8 to 10th as possible
Small things:
- Khan at WS8! Where he belongs
- Fox Coils of the Hydra!
- Power down Dreads, Suzerains, Imperial Fists, PoM Thanatar and Myrmidons
This.
Thanks for the great episode and the shout-out.
1 thing I would like which 40k and AoS have and I would love in HH (don't burn me at the stake).
I would like the yearly update book they brought out (I think in AoS it was "The Generals Handbook").
This gave a shake up of the PTS and a few rules where they found issues of balance. Though they might have done away with that now they are giving away digital codes with books for their app for PTS.
This, plus it would be something you can afford to miss if you don't play often. Sigmar's design team has some really solid ideas.
this shit would turn me off completely from GW games. I got into 30k because I was sick of constant edition cycles.
Can't see it getting the "new edition every three years" treatment 40k does, and I don't want that either. Way too much churn going on with that short of a cycle. I can see it getting an update sooner than later though as the current edition has a couple of glaring issues. What I dislike the most about the current edition is that some legions have had those layers within layers of army list building removed, whilst others (Fists...the fucking fists and their million options for every type of gameplay) have kept them.
GW is moving to a 4 year cycle now due to the sheer quantity of games they have. Was spoken about recently in one of their hang outs and at one of the events. (USA event cant remember the one) but saying that we see this with 40k being slowly released as its nearly year 2 now and they have only half the codex released or just over. But saying this. 4 years is ok.
Heresy is similar to me of Lotr MESBG in that the rules are set. And the small bits we see changed will be small. Not a shake uo like aos or 40k in that last change.
I play all game systems and so far i think MESBG and Heresy are the most 'balanced' but i think thats the community also helping make it not gamey
I don't want another edition especially since GW can't iron out the rules they have right now. How about some friggin' praetor/consul models for legions that STILL have none!?
That’s not necessarily a problem with the game per-se. But as an Iron Warrior, I concur
Keep reactions but tweak them. They add a lot to the game.
If its selling well, they'll change rules for changes sake and want repeat sales every 3 years. We are perilously close to seeing Heresy turn into 40k (which is a shit show). I hope its an update.
You and me both Sam
I couldn't care any less how often edition changes occur. The setting is what I am here for. Whether or not I'm rolling dice to a different chart doesn't bother me.
Besides, there's a lot of cleaning up to do for the rules. A whole hell of a lot more than just a bi-annual errata/faq can handle. I hope it brings more players in, too. Overall I'm positive for it.
axe reactions. been playing 3rd Ed and having a good time with it.
Ld test to do reactions I think could be a good compromise. Make contemptors ws and bs 4
Good thinking
Reactions are awful and need looking at, contemptors are broken and my god do tanks need love
Spicy take. What is it specifically about reactions that makes you want to tar them all with the same brush?