Excellent Video Aiden. Small .484 - .508 straight tenor, Symphonic .547 & double rotor .562 bass. I believe even if one doesn't plan to earn a living on trombone, playing the 3 sizes is essential to anyone that "loves" playing trombone in varied ensembles....and a 4 valve Euphonium. It's always great to have playing options.
My stable makes me happy. I know I have a lack of large bore F attachment, but its worked out ok. 1) Moz Alto (You'd be surprised how well this horn plays) 2) Conn 8H 3) Conn 112H. I'm certainly a Conn/Holton fan. Would I like a 36H, yah, but not with the price tag and how often I actually get to play Alto (usually when subbing for Tenor Horn parts). For small bore, I rely on my Olds O-21 (go go gadget flugelbone), I'm just now getting back into music after about a 20 year break. I'm super glad you're not pushing the Shires/Edwards horns, most of us just dont need something that fancy.
Great video! This has been something I've kind of been thinking about a lot lately as I've been on the hunt for a 3B to finally get away from the YSL-354.
I came to this video specifically to see what you would say about medium bore tenors. My first F-attachment was a very cool Selmer Bolero which I let go (long story), at which point I switched to a Conn 50H .522" bore that I still have in my stable. Eventually I ended up spending the necessary $1200 for an 88H that I have loved since the day we met, and I picked up a $150 King Tempo 606 that I think is about 97% of a 3B, so no complaints there. But what of the middle child, my 50H? There was a time where I felt that my 50H was the perfect compromise--big bell for orchestral playing, but a smaller bore and a small shank receiver for jazz. The small shank receiver would let me use anything from a Bach 22D to a Schilke 51D, which I felt, at the time, would cover all the necessary bases. Then my tune changed after I tried and bought the 88. Well, at least the 50H would make a great, versatile jazz horn, right? Well now, having spent a year plus change with the 88H and a few months with the 606, I find myself wanting to sell the 50H. It seems, as you said, that the jack of all trades is the master of none. Which is a shame, because the 50H is a wonderful horn, as are many medium and dual-bore trombones I've played, like the Bach 36B or Yamaha 356R. But it's tough to justify having one as a 'broke' college student (much less mechanical engineer who goofs around on brass instruments).
Keep in mind the 50H is a really weird horn, designed as a student entry level "bass" for school use. It's not really good for much of anything else due to that compromise. Almost any "real" medium bore trombone is going to be better at both tenor duties you ask of it. That said... I still haven't really found a good use for a .525 on a regular basis.
I’m a primary euph player and am working on my stable and it’ll hopefully grow/change over the next few years: Bass bone: Shires Q36GR Large Tenor: Eastman ETB432 Small tenor: non existent :( Euph: Besson 2052
I'm still building my stable. I'm a euphonium player and have a euphonium, but I do a lot of doubling on both tenor and bass trombone. Right now I have a small bore and a bass. A Conn 48H Constellation and a Conn 62H. I'm very fortunate because both of those trombones were given to me by a good friend/mentor. Now I just need to find a good tenor when I have the funds.
I usually agree with you. This time, the bach 36 medium bore trombone is really great when you get a good one. I think being a bass player, you may dislike the in between size. I love a good 36b Mt Vernon on 3rd trombone in jazz band or when I used to march in the military. but to each his own
Just saw this! I love a good 36, but in a lot of settings it's simply too much sound and work where a small bore is the right tool. And then it's not enough sound in other settings. It's why I have never managed to keep one long term.
My 2 cents on the medium bore, I played a 3b+ a little over half a year ago, and it was the best experience I have ever had on a straight jazz horn. I've played the 2b and the 3b and didn't like them very much, but the 3b+ blew my mind. I think the whole medium bore argument is going to vary greatly from person to person, so if you want to look into one just make sure you try it out first and then think about, like Aidan said, what you are going to use it for.
I love .525s, but most of them are going to sound a bit large and have to be played a bit too loud to match other small tenors (in a big band section, for instance). I think it's also worth being able to figure out the finesse necessary to play the smaller horns.
I think on the topic of the medium bore tenor with F-attachment, they’re great for gigs in small jazz ensembles or contemporary horn sections where you’re the only trombone. Personally, I’d rather have a King 3B-f and swap between mouthpieces (maybe a 6 1/2AL for the low end and something like a 7C or 12C for songs where I’m playing lead lines), but I am one for choosing the tool for the job, and often times the medium bores work great in a typical three piece jazz/funk/rnb section.
Yup, I'm using my King 608 on a musical the next couple weeks- the book is all over the place and would work best on probably 3 different trombones but the .525 covers it all. It makes a chunky enough sound that I'm not just zinging through the texture, but it doesn't sound out of place in the lighter stuff either.
1. Bach 42CO. This is such a solid workhorse. If I could find the straight gooseneck on the used market somewhere, it would be even better. Unfortunately, they’re rare these days especially since Bach introduced the Artisan line. This is first professional trombone I owned. I still play it regularly. The payoff from gigs at this point has been far more than was ever paid for it, including maintenance. 2. Holton Collegiate tenor w/F attachment, large bore. I was given this horn and recently started giving it a whirl. Nice warm sound, but I find it breaks at higher dynamics too easily. I may try using it for solo work instead of my Bach, but maybe a better sell. 3. Conn Elkhart 62H, tuning-in-slide (1970). I bought this on EBay 14 years ago for less than $2000. Even better, I was finally able to find a D-slide a few years ago and bought it as soon as I saw it. I love this bass for almost everything. Recently, I’ve been wondering if it’s possible to increase the bore of a TIS in order to open up the valve and pedal register. If not, perhaps at least changing the crook out for a bass crook? The Bach and Conn have served me solidly for many years at all levels I’ve played. I don’t have a small tenor, but I rarely play lead/principal. Maybe some day.
Is 'stable' a west coast thing? Never heard that terminology before (Indiana asking), but I very much appreciate it. Trombones can be wild beasts that need taming and deserve whippings from time to time.
I’m honestly pretty happy with my stable: Bach 36G small-bore tenor Large bore tenor (student model) Yamaha YBL-321 bass trombone (my main horn) And a Wessex TB570 BBb tuba
when do you think its important to have your stable complete? Im heading into my second half of college and I have a used professional large bore tenor from the 1990s that I would like to upgrade to a custom horn this summer and Iv got bach 50AL. For my small bores the best iv got is a vintage holten from around the 1920s that not in great condition (not the easiest thing to play either). So if i am to spend a couple thousand upgrading my main horn to a custom it will be awhile before im in a good financial position to justify buying a small bore.
I definitely need to find a small bore tenor. I’ve poked around looking for 3Bs online but I never really found one. I have my old student model Bach but I never use it anymore. I do regularly play my large tenor and bass though. And recently got a euph. The dream is to one day have a small tenor, an alto, and a tuba (no idea what kind)
I think my 3 horn would be: Edwards 502 bass with .562/.578 dual bore Conn 88HNV/88HSGXCL or edwards t396 HB King 3B But my current stable is Yamaha 613G Yamaha 882 GO Jupiter .525 bore with F attachment (not currently usable because of slide damage though :/)
I just made my first payment on a Holton Tr-181 that's $3495 not too long ago, my first payment was paying half of it off, but I do think I got one HELL of a deal for a slightly used professional level instrument that usually ranges $4200+
I like my 1986 King 2107 7B bass trombone. I don’t play anything other than 2nd or 3rd parts. The horn is just so heavy. Thinking of sending it to Butler for Carbon Fiber changes.
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1. 3B with no valve
2. 3B with one valve
3. 3B with two valves
how about a 3B with three valves
3b+ with 2 valves.
Excellent Video Aiden. Small .484 - .508 straight tenor, Symphonic .547 & double rotor .562 bass. I believe even if one doesn't plan to earn a living on trombone, playing the 3 sizes is essential to anyone that "loves" playing trombone in varied ensembles....and a 4 valve Euphonium. It's always great to have playing options.
My stable makes me happy. I know I have a lack of large bore F attachment, but its worked out ok.
1) Moz Alto (You'd be surprised how well this horn plays)
2) Conn 8H
3) Conn 112H.
I'm certainly a Conn/Holton fan. Would I like a 36H, yah, but not with the price tag and how often I actually get to play Alto (usually when subbing for Tenor Horn parts). For small bore, I rely on my Olds O-21 (go go gadget flugelbone), I'm just now getting back into music after about a 20 year break. I'm super glad you're not pushing the Shires/Edwards horns, most of us just dont need something that fancy.
I like the fancy stuff, but I also realize how expensive they are (hence me not owning any!) and how unnecessary they are for most players.
Great video! This has been something I've kind of been thinking about a lot lately as I've been on the hunt for a 3B to finally get away from the YSL-354.
I came to this video specifically to see what you would say about medium bore tenors. My first F-attachment was a very cool Selmer Bolero which I let go (long story), at which point I switched to a Conn 50H .522" bore that I still have in my stable. Eventually I ended up spending the necessary $1200 for an 88H that I have loved since the day we met, and I picked up a $150 King Tempo 606 that I think is about 97% of a 3B, so no complaints there. But what of the middle child, my 50H?
There was a time where I felt that my 50H was the perfect compromise--big bell for orchestral playing, but a smaller bore and a small shank receiver for jazz. The small shank receiver would let me use anything from a Bach 22D to a Schilke 51D, which I felt, at the time, would cover all the necessary bases. Then my tune changed after I tried and bought the 88. Well, at least the 50H would make a great, versatile jazz horn, right? Well now, having spent a year plus change with the 88H and a few months with the 606, I find myself wanting to sell the 50H. It seems, as you said, that the jack of all trades is the master of none. Which is a shame, because the 50H is a wonderful horn, as are many medium and dual-bore trombones I've played, like the Bach 36B or Yamaha 356R. But it's tough to justify having one as a 'broke' college student (much less mechanical engineer who goofs around on brass instruments).
Keep in mind the 50H is a really weird horn, designed as a student entry level "bass" for school use. It's not really good for much of anything else due to that compromise. Almost any "real" medium bore trombone is going to be better at both tenor duties you ask of it.
That said... I still haven't really found a good use for a .525 on a regular basis.
I’m a primary euph player and am working on my stable and it’ll hopefully grow/change over the next few years:
Bass bone: Shires Q36GR
Large Tenor: Eastman ETB432
Small tenor: non existent :(
Euph: Besson 2052
Well, you know what I'll say :)
I'm still building my stable. I'm a euphonium player and have a euphonium, but I do a lot of doubling on both tenor and bass trombone. Right now I have a small bore and a bass. A Conn 48H Constellation and a Conn 62H. I'm very fortunate because both of those trombones were given to me by a good friend/mentor. Now I just need to find a good tenor when I have the funds.
That's a solid start!!
I usually agree with you.
This time, the bach 36 medium bore trombone is really great when you get a good one. I think being a bass player, you may dislike the in between size. I love a good 36b Mt Vernon on 3rd trombone in jazz band or when I used to march in the military. but to each his own
Just saw this!
I love a good 36, but in a lot of settings it's simply too much sound and work where a small bore is the right tool. And then it's not enough sound in other settings. It's why I have never managed to keep one long term.
idk why im here, weird yt recommendation but i love the vid
My 2 cents on the medium bore, I played a 3b+ a little over half a year ago, and it was the best experience I have ever had on a straight jazz horn. I've played the 2b and the 3b and didn't like them very much, but the 3b+ blew my mind. I think the whole medium bore argument is going to vary greatly from person to person, so if you want to look into one just make sure you try it out first and then think about, like Aidan said, what you are going to use it for.
I love .525s, but most of them are going to sound a bit large and have to be played a bit too loud to match other small tenors (in a big band section, for instance).
I think it's also worth being able to figure out the finesse necessary to play the smaller horns.
I think on the topic of the medium bore tenor with F-attachment, they’re great for gigs in small jazz ensembles or contemporary horn sections where you’re the only trombone. Personally, I’d rather have a King 3B-f and swap between mouthpieces (maybe a 6 1/2AL for the low end and something like a 7C or 12C for songs where I’m playing lead lines), but I am one for choosing the tool for the job, and often times the medium bores work great in a typical three piece jazz/funk/rnb section.
Yup, I'm using my King 608 on a musical the next couple weeks- the book is all over the place and would work best on probably 3 different trombones but the .525 covers it all. It makes a chunky enough sound that I'm not just zinging through the texture, but it doesn't sound out of place in the lighter stuff either.
1. Bach 42CO. This is such a solid workhorse. If I could find the straight gooseneck on the used market somewhere, it would be even better. Unfortunately, they’re rare these days especially since Bach introduced the Artisan line. This is first professional trombone I owned. I still play it regularly. The payoff from gigs at this point has been far more than was ever paid for it, including maintenance.
2. Holton Collegiate tenor w/F attachment, large bore. I was given this horn and recently started giving it a whirl. Nice warm sound, but I find it breaks at higher dynamics too easily. I may try using it for solo work instead of my Bach, but maybe a better sell.
3. Conn Elkhart 62H, tuning-in-slide (1970). I bought this on EBay 14 years ago for less than $2000. Even better, I was finally able to find a D-slide a few years ago and bought it as soon as I saw it. I love this bass for almost everything. Recently, I’ve been wondering if it’s possible to increase the bore of a TIS in order to open up the valve and pedal register. If not, perhaps at least changing the crook out for a bass crook?
The Bach and Conn have served me solidly for many years at all levels I’ve played. I don’t have a small tenor, but I rarely play lead/principal. Maybe some day.
That 62H is how it is! No way to change it now. Honestly, I would just look into a more modern horn if you want something more open.
@@AidanRitchie I figured, and I might consider investing if I can find a deal. No taking away from how great the 62H is, though!
I have . Bach LT42BOG and a Yamaha YBL830. So far I haven't really been in a situation where those weren't sufficient for what I need.
Just need a small tenor now!
Is 'stable' a west coast thing? Never heard that terminology before (Indiana asking), but I very much appreciate it. Trombones can be wild beasts that need taming and deserve whippings from time to time.
Nope, worldwide thing! I didn't pick it up here.
I’m honestly pretty happy with my stable:
Bach 36G small-bore tenor
Large bore tenor (student model)
Yamaha YBL-321 bass trombone (my main horn)
And a Wessex TB570 BBb tuba
That Bach is a .525! :P
when do you think its important to have your stable complete? Im heading into my second half of college and I have a used professional large bore tenor from the 1990s that I would like to upgrade to a custom horn this summer and Iv got bach 50AL. For my small bores the best iv got is a vintage holten from around the 1920s that not in great condition (not the easiest thing to play either). So if i am to spend a couple thousand upgrading my main horn to a custom it will be awhile before im in a good financial position to justify buying a small bore.
When you need it! I could have used a good 3 trombone stable coming out of undergrad, myself.
I definitely need to find a small bore tenor. I’ve poked around looking for 3Bs online but I never really found one. I have my old student model Bach but I never use it anymore. I do regularly play my large tenor and bass though. And recently got a euph. The dream is to one day have a small tenor, an alto, and a tuba (no idea what kind)
There's plenty of 3Bs out there!!
@@AidanRitchie yeah there are a lot but no great deals when I last looked. I’m not super actively looking though
I think my 3 horn would be:
Edwards 502 bass with .562/.578 dual bore
Conn 88HNV/88HSGXCL or edwards t396 HB
King 3B
But my current stable is
Yamaha 613G
Yamaha 882 GO
Jupiter .525 bore with F attachment (not currently usable because of slide damage though :/)
Those are great horns already!
I would say I have a good setup
Yamaha 642IIS Euph
Yamaha 830 Xeno Bass trombone
then on the side i have a king 601 Bb trumpet
Well on the way!
I just made my first payment on a Holton Tr-181 that's $3495 not too long ago, my first payment was paying half of it off, but I do think I got one HELL of a deal for a slightly used professional level instrument that usually ranges $4200+
Is it brand new?
@@AidanRitchie no, but its its really good shape for being used and for how old it is
@@ZERO-ky8vm hmm. That's a very high price
@@AidanRitchie how much do you think a reasonable price would be
@@ZERO-ky8vm I'd probably pay 1800 for one in really good shape
I like my 1986 King 2107 7B bass trombone. I don’t play anything other than 2nd or 3rd parts. The horn is just so heavy. Thinking of sending it to Butler for Carbon Fiber changes.
Well, if you need a slide...